Thomas Cranmer: Destroyed by Vengeance?

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

No one ever blamed Henry, it was just too dangerous even to think it. It was always his “evil councillors”, secular or religious, who were blamed instead, even by his daughters.

[@ReadingthePast]

I think Elizabeth learned a good lesson in this too!

[@williethomas5116]

Defying Henry was a good way to separate your head from the rest of your body. But the issue is Mary and Elizabeth's claim to the throne comes from Henry. If they publicly denounce him they are denouncing themselves and their claim to the throne.

[@Hfil66]

That was not limited to Henry, it was common for most kings. Even Charles I, initially Oliver Cromwell's targets were the King's advisers and not the King himself; it was only with the advent of full civil war did the King himself become the target. No small part of this is that while it is permissible to attack the king's advisers, attacking the king (any king) directly would amount to treason.

[@kevinc809]

He is a good king. He is a kind king. He is a merciful king (who is about to have my head chopped off based on false charges).

[@Hfil66]

@@kevinc809 To be fair, dying of old age was not that common an occurrence at the time anyway; and anybody who was hungry for power had to be careful with the attachment of their head, as it could all too easily become detached. Probably, simply having your head removed while the rest of your family continued to have a fairly healthy life was probably good going.

[@missilotze2985]

For all that she's remembered as a tyrant, everything I learn about Mary leads me to feel only pity for her. This poor woman was given truly a craptastic hand in the game of life.

[@karensilvera6694]

Henry's children were all damaged from his decisions and I believe they suffered from his cruelty. The country did too. There are so many points where he could have made a different decision and the outcome would have been better. I'm in agreement with you completely.

[@seedhillbruisermusic7939]

I agree, as soon as Henry decided that he wanted rid of Catherine of Aragon Mary's life was turned upside down and she had nothing but troubles afterwards all through her life. I can't forgive her for her bloodthirstiness in the execution of Jane Grey and burning of the protestants, but I can sympathize with her throughout her problems with her father and her brother, and then the awful phantom pregnancies she went through as Queen.

[@kevinc809]

@@seedhillbruisermusic7939 Phillip And Mary Love Story kzbin.info/www/bejne/sH2TaaSnhrulrq8

[@HawkeyeBrooke]

Yeah, it doesn’t excuse any of the terrible stuff she did and I can’t bring myself to like her, but I can at least understand why Mary turned out the way she did, and much of it was not her fault.

[@LotusStitchandSketch]

@@seedhillbruisermusic7939 I agree. While I do think that's no excuse for the actions of her time as Queen, I can understand why she ended up the way she did. I often wonder if perhaps Henry and Anne had been more supportive to Mary instead of basically turning on and throwing her to the wolves, she might not have become as angry and spiteful as she did. My parents are divorced and I have a younger half-brother so I can understand why she would have likely been very confused and upset over the divorce of her parents. In my case I was only 2 so I was far to young to really understand what was going on, but many of my friends parent's are also divorced at ages when they understood what was happening.

[@FanFicnic]

I didn’t know Cranmer cared so much for Anne. Makes all this drama feel more human to know he cried for his fallen queen.

[@Roz-y2d]

Wow, I wonder how he dared. At least someone cared, even though she may not have deserved it.

[@jerricocke987]

This was an absolutely brilliant breakdown of the cranmore affair. My personal thoughts are that Mary had built up such a long burning rage against cranmer that she would have sprouted wings and flown before she would have left him alive. He was the antithesis and as you said the scapegoat for everything that happened in her life that was negative you know she couldn't blame her father she was incapable of that and the one person that she could blame was Connor. Wonderful wonderful discussion today thank you..

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you! I’m so pleased you enjoyed the video!

[@javieratoz3434]

I much prefer this long format videos! Couldn’t get enough, keep it up Dr. Kat!

[@susanjackett9268]

Kat, you tell these stories so fluently, I'd swear they are to you , like people you actually know now, well done.

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you ☺️

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Absolutely well done.

[@juanitarichards1074]

All of Mary's problems began and ended with her ruthless father, not his minions who carried out his bidding in fear. They had before them the example of those who failed the king........no royal servant - or wife, was too high to lose their head........

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Mary unwittingly did more to promote the Protestant cause with her persecutions than anyone else could have. No, I don’t think she would have treated Cranmer differently had she been able to see the future, she ruled 100% emotionally and not logically.

[@jasperhorace7147]

It could be argued that the Pope himself did the same thing with his refusal to grant Henry’s divorce. Mary became a victim of that decision.

[@angietyndall7337]

A little off topic: The irony of the Tudors a few decades later and I mean Elizabeth I and her cousin Mary Stewaurt is although she didn't want a Stewaurt on the English Throne, Mary's son did take the throne.

[@oliviahansen87]

It wasn’t like the Lutherans were any better, with the way that they persecuted the Catholics

[@k.stacey7389]

@@jasperhorace7147 or Queen Catherine with her refusal to divorce. She could have negotiated to end her marriage while upholding Mary’s legitimacy, it had been done before. But she wasn’t bending an inch.

[@jasperhorace7147]

@@k.stacey7389 And when we see how generous Henry was to Anne of Cleves, she probably had nothing to fear.

[@grievousangelic]

Fascinating video! Cranmer was in the ultimate no-win situation. There was just nothing he could have done that would have ensured he stayed alive, except flee to the Continent and then -- I don't know -- China or the Middle East. Somewhere Mary couldn't get to him. Her traumas were many and her life was tragic. I think her childhood and young adulthood experiences probably led to her developing severe Complex PTSD, as well as an anxiety disorder. But she had her mother's stubborn character and she wasn't going to budge. As a result, when she zeroed in on Cranmer as the focus of all her troubles, she would not be deterred from that course. Henry's insistence on his own way in all things, no matter what, destroyed thousands of lives, including those of his daughter, closest associates, and indeed, nearly everyone his life touched.

[@dianabarnes884]

mary's mother, catharine wasn't stubborn, she was bound by her faith. However, Mary had Henry's stubbornness in wanting her own way. I do think her life withered on the vine when Henry sent her away from Catherine. She wanted to be as a great a ruler a her father- but couldn't see that he was the cause of his own and her troubles. Henry- a spoilt second son, was never raised to rule- he had the love of power and money with none of the sense of duty. (Andrew anyone????) Mary tried to use his draconian ways to create her legacy. What she got was Bloody Mary, daughter of psycopath Henry.

[@trudypegg437]

@@dianabarnes884 Harry I would say , they both were spoilt second , sons I am not sure about Andrew. But I don’t think they

[@k.stacey7389]

@@dianabarnes884 she was stubborn af. She could have negotiated upholding Mary’s legitimacy and retired to a convent, which would have stopped the religious schism in England cold in its tracks. The pope would have signed off on that, if her faith was the issue she would have done it. It was more important to her to insist she was THE queen. The woman defined stubborn.

[@g.c.4824]

As an atheist i say, i hope hell has a special place for Henry Tudor

[@brontewcat]

He didn't need to flee to India and China, just to the low countries where many of the English protestants hung out until Elizabeth became Queen. She could have reinstated him as Archbishop. He was her godfather.

[@MyrnaMinkoff-yy4qd]

When I did my family's geneaology I discovered that Thomas Cranmer is an ancestor. I never knew that much about him, and appreciate this video very much. Many thanks.

[@conemadam]

Once again I am reminded of the crushing traumas and fears that were a way of life for these people. I often wonder how they could bear it. Thank you for an illuminating presentation of Thomas Cranmer’s tenuous position vis-a-vis Henry and Mary.

[@joanhuffman2166]

Directing your anger at one's all powerful and not very nice Father who really deserves it or at a safer target. Mary isn't the first to take the safe option of redirecting her anger at a soft target and she isn't the last either.

[@gr8flyerfan]

I once heard it said that Mary Tudor wasn't inherently cruel, but allowed cruelty to be perpetrated in her name. Overly simplified, perhaps. I have no doubt, given her hatred of her stepmother Anne Boleyn, that she was capable of bearing a grudge. Wonderful video, it's always a high point when one of your videos drops!

[@jasperhorace7147]

It is tempting to judge past times by todays standards and that is a mistake. Monarchs had the power to do almost anything.

[@LotusStitchandSketch]

@@jasperhorace7147 yes it is. When looking at events like this from the past like the extermination of the Cathars of France or the Spanish Inquisition, we have to remind ourselves that the way they saw the world is very much a world apart from how we view it today. When we look at these events we have to look at them through the viewpoint of that time period rather than ours. Back then burning people and torturing them for confessions was NORMAL, while for us its almost unheard of. As a result when we look at those things through our eyes, it's shocking, and just overall horrible but it makes sense from the POV of the time

[@mattieb7348]

Excellent video. Truly captivating the way you told this tragic story of a malignant narcissist, his co-dependent, emotionally abused and traumatised wives and children; the golden child; the scapegoated child and a mulitude of flying monkeys. Like most flying monkeys, if you dance with the devil, you will eventually get burned - no pun intended regarding Cranmer - a very tragic life. Henry was narcissism on steroids. It must have been terrifying to have survived Henry VIII only to live long enough to succumb to the wrath of Bloody Mary. What a dark time in history. Thank you, Dr. Kat. Well done!

[@waynebean1521]

I'd love to hear you do a video about Reginald Pole....also caught up in the Tudor squabbles. I've become fascinated with him and know so little. Ive never heard him brought up in connection with the Marian persecutions. I actually discovered him, standing over his non-descript brick grave in the Corona at Canterbury and feel that he was another unfortunate Plantagenet descendant "caught between a rock and a hard place"! Great video...loved it!

[@catgladwell5684]

I have always thought Edward an arrogant boy - his father to a T. Mary must have often been frustrated by the power this irritating child had over her. A really absorbing telling of the Cranmer story, Doctor Kat.

[@natalee7726]

Oh I dunno, the belief in male succession was pretty string back then. Plus he was expected to be a mirror to his father. Not saying he wasn't an arrogant little twerp, he clearly was if you've ever read his diary. He literally refers to himself in the 3rd person!

[@catgladwell5684]

@@natalee7726 although Mary was the granddaughter of the great queen regnant Isabella of Castille, so may have held a different view of the male primogeniture rule her father was obsessed with of course.

[@Goodiesfanful]

If Edward had lived to full adulthood, he would likely have been an autocrat like his father, he was even more intolerant and a religious fanatic, and I doubt any royal marriage with him would have been a love affair. But there would have been plus sides to his reign. I wonder what heirs he would have produced?

[@catgladwell5684]

@@Goodiesfanful I suppose that would have depended on the mother of those heirs - no doubt some Protestant princess of a suitable age from some religiously reformed part of Europe. It is always fascinating to wonder what if...

[@mrsaundersmusings2972]

Every time I pass by the martyr's memorial in Oxford I remember the brutality and cruelty that this era brought but perhaps more moving is the small plaque near the actual site of the executions.

[@briandelaney9710]

The so called “Martyr’s Memorial “ was only set up as a trap to snare those of the Oxford Movement who held a Catholic view of the Church of England

[@Chonkish]

Gosh I can put into words how much I love that intro jingle!!! it’s so happy!

[@skippingstones2023]

I agree. It has never failed to cheer me up even when I don't need to be cheered up.😍

[@ReadingthePast]

Hello, it’s lovely to have you 🤩

[@dhoward8816]

As an American, it sounds very very British! 🇬🇧 🇬🇧

[@Gary-h6f]

Me too. I'll catch myself humming it sometimes during the day.

[@bobbyb8335]

I just finished reading Diarmaid MacCulloch’s book on Cranmer so really appreciate your addition to my understanding of Cranmer. I always look forward to your videos. Please do consider writing a book. I’m sure it would be a bestseller! Thanks!

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you, that’s really kind. Diarmaid’s work on Cranmer is the absolute gold standard! He is a phenomenal scholar!

[@platedlizard]

@@ReadingthePast echoing the demand to write a book! About anything you like, doesn’t have to be about the Tudor’s if you don’t want. I’d read a book by you about butterflies if that’s what you wanted to write. Your channel is one of the few things me and my Mom have in common so we’d love a book by you.

[@ardenalexa94]

What was the book called?

[@bobbyb8335]

@@ardenalexa94 Thomas Cranmer A Life. Revised Edition. I got mine on Amazon.

[@ardenalexa94]

@@bobbyb8335 thank you!

[@hutke01]

The problem is that during this time most everyone in royal circles were hypocrites including the papacy. Power was the game and Mary and Cranmer understood that. Mary knew she couldn’t control Cranmer, and he knew he did not have enough influence to get her removed as Queen. Mary was fighting for her life, and he was a threat. His portrait is quite interesting because portraits during that time are full of symbolism. Everything in it serves a purpose and message. It would be interesting to see a video about the portrait. Like, what’s up with the oak man and what looks to be a native in the wood paneling with a tiny note attached?

[@candyclews4047]

Your 'oak man' is possibly a depiction of The Green Man, also known as a foliate head. It's a motif in architecture and art, of a face completely surrounded by green foliage, which normally spreads out from the centre of the face. Widely used since the 12th century. It's usually a symbol of rebirth, a new cycle of growth (ie: Spring) but why it is so prominent in Cranmer's portrait I don't know. Perhaps portraying Cranmer as the architect of the rebirth of the Church?

[@GS-jt3lz]

Great presentation and lots of thought provoking questions as usual, Dr. Kat! I don’t think Mary would have spared Cranmer. For the first time in her life, she had the power to take revenge for all that happened to her beloved mother and herself. Cranmer embodied everything that she despised and she had to wait for so long to be finally in power. I think she is one more tragic female figure around Henry VIII. She wanted love and recognition from Henry and instead was used as a pawn in his political machinations both domestically and abroad. She looked at him as an example of how he dealt with his enemies and she emulated him.

[@dhoward8816]

It's great having a transcript! It will make researching easier.

[@brendanmurrill5059]

Thank you. A fantastic presentation of the complex political/religious/theological issues of that time. I think both Cranmer and Mary were in a no win situation resulting in martyrdom for one of them. I am glad that their legacy is still being debated today, keeping theology and it's place in politics alive today. I agree with another comment, you really should write a book on this subject. I am approaching this subject from a slightly biased base as a former Roman Catholic who is now an Anglican priest. Understanding our difficulties, albeit historical, can only lead to better understanding, integration and, please God, full recognition of each other's sacramental and theological stances.

[@donnalieblick8478]

Absolutely fascinating and a mini series on Cranmer by Dr Kat would be so welcomed. Thank you!

[@gailcbull]

I think that Mary suffered from trauma bonding: a disorder that children raised in psychologically abusive homes often suffer from. When a child is raised by an abusive parent, the first thing they learn is that to stand up for themselves to the abuser only gets them abused more. Abused children end up learning to placate their abuser, and they often end up believing that placating and affection are the same thing because it's the only way they can express love for their parent. But the anger and need to stand up for themselves still exists, so they need to find a scapegoat to project it on. In abusive families, it is usually one of the other siblings. It sounds as though in a royal court - where the nation had an interest in family affairs - Cranmer became Mary's scapegoat.

[@barbarak2836]

Excellent analysis! I think Cromwell would have been her scapegoat, except for the fact that he was executed in 1540.

[@LotusStitchandSketch]

@@barbarak2836 I would agree with you on this, I think had Henry not executed him there's a rather good chance Mary would have had him burned alongside Cranmer since they fed into each others energy in the sense of causing so much of the early trauma Mary suffered.

[@roseg1333]

Sounds plausible but don’t forget Mary was Roman Catholic and you don’t disobey your parents no matter how terrible they can be. It’s even in the commandments.

[@pogo9876]

@@roseg1333 What? The 10 commandments aren't exclusive to Roman Catholicism. The 10 commandments started with the Jews. It's followed by Jews and Christians. Regardless of what Christian denomination one may belong to (Catholic, Protestant, etc,.) The 10 commandments are apart of the foundation of all and any Judeo-Christian denominations.

[@kathrynmast916]

Yay! Another visit with with Dr. Kat! A perfect way to brighten up a rainy day in my corner of the world.👍

[@CharvonR]

I cannot believe you don’t have many more subscribers! Your channel is one of my favorites! So educational and interesting. Thank you so much and keep up the great work. 🇺🇸

[@williethomas5116]

In all fairness she had every right to hate him. His ruling had effectively bastardized her and taken away her status and legitmacy. He ruined any prospect of marriage for her if she did not get the crown. Which by the time she did she was instead of a marrying as a young princess. She was forced to marry a man who didn't love her. She didn't get married until she was 38 ancient by the standards of the day certainly any child she attempted to have at that age being her first and poor conditions would have killed her. But she made him a martyr. Her Marian persecutions is what helped the protestant movement more than anything.

[@williethomas5116]

Now to answer the $64,000 question. If Mary knew that killing Cranmer would lead to the destruction of her faith would she have still done it?! Honestly, I don't know. It all hinges on how much of her faith was faith and how much of her faith was it's necessity to rebuke her treatment and bastardization. Mary was raised a devout Catholic and very early taught languages like a young princess who was expected to marry a foreign prince and produce heirs. Obviously the next language to be learned would be latin being the universal language due to the strength of the church. After her being declared illegitimate no Prince would marry her and she could marry no noble person because it would ruin her prospect of becoming queen. No other nobleman would support elevating her husband as king. But to the other side without the backing of the church all her suffering become technically her fault as defying her father would be treason. So it's a symbiotic need for Mary. In the end the only way for her keep significance is through the survival of the church. So as much as I think she reveled in killing Cranmer. She would protect her church.

[@dawnmason9558]

I love how you bring the characters to life especially their failings & foibles.

[@Gary-h6f]

As someone mentioned earlier, I have often wondered if Catherine of Aragon knew that her refusal to get an annulment would result in England breaking from the Catholic Church along with the hardships that Mary would face in her life before becoming Queen would she have still fought to stay married to Henry? Because if Catherine had given Henry an annulment, the Reformation coming to England would have been very different.

[@OkieJammer2736]

Ahh. The what-if. Great point! As devoted as she was to her daughter, had she known - in advance - the ramifications of her steadfast stubbornness ... Would she have negotiated? Would Anne and Elizabeth have had a great relationship? Wow. And it firmly pivots on your point. 🤔

[@90sHONEY]

@@OkieJammer2736 I am 100% sure that Anne loved Elizabeth and that she would have raised her daughter to become a very well-educated and confident woman, just like Anne herself was. Then again, Elizabeth did end up exactly like that so I guess it was also in her blood!

[@Goodiesfanful]

Things would have been so different if she’d taken the easy way out offered to her - retire to a nunnery. It would have made Henry a free man, Mary would not be illegitimised, and no need for any divorce or break with Rome.

[@bjetkabathory5185]

Catherine had to refuse, she was fighting for her daughter´s Mary´s LIFE, status and future.. Catherine was in England long enough to learn the English history had been full of executions & murders of siblings, half-siblings, cousins, nephews etc, both legal and bastards, whose only guilt was they had been close to the English throne, and so they had made a theoretical or real threat for the ruling monarch and his heirs. Nobody could have guaranteed Mary or her issues would survive. Mary´s only chance to survive was to keep her rights for the Crown - that was also the best way how to keep the Spanish mighty protection and, consequently, her life.

[@clivejames5058]

Trouble was - it was her faith - as a devout Roman Catholic, Catherine of Aragon would have been in a state of mortal sin if she had agreed to a divorce with Henry. This would have condemned her soul to hell. Even if she could have seen the future consequences, which I doubt, the fate of her eternal soul (and in her mind - that of Henry's too) would always have prohibited a divorce. I often wish Henry had not been so pre-occupied with a male heir. If Mary had been consistently loved, supported and intellectually trained to be a Monarch - that is what would have made a very different British Isles.

[@ShallowApple22]

The best way to spend my Friday evening a full Hour video from Doc Kat 💜 THANK YOU 🙏

[@CaitlinSk]

These vids get me through long days!! Love them! Please don't stop!!!

[@kirstena4001]

So interesting! I have never really thought much about Cranmer, compared to Wolsey or Cromwell, he just seemed such a wishy washy figure. But this has provided so much more insight into his actions:)

[@lizh6420]

I lay in bed last-night listening to this story; Dr. Kat has such a soothing voice that I soon nodded off. This must be what bedtime stories are like for Gabriel

[@emilydawson9292]

Yes please to series on Cranmer! And thanks for your always fantastic vids x

[@diggerfan1936]

Another stellar video Dr. Kat! Thank you so very much!

[@kristineholtvedt9042]

You convey all the facts so clearly - and entertainingly- I truly enjoy the history as well as the drama! Thank you!

[@Hochspitz]

So close to 1,000K subscribers! Your videos give us all so much insight into not just the social climbers, politics, the importance and influence of religion but also as GRRM would say, the Small Folk.

[@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289]

Another great video, Dr Kat. 👍👍

[@sophiegirl752]

I would really enjoy a video on his life. Thank you for this one- and ALL your amazing work! You’re absolutely brilliant!

[@Lisette777]

This history lesson just confirmed my belief that any religious zealotry or bigotry is deleterious to people's mental and physical health! I think they were all victims of their own delusions. Thank you again for your interesting and in-depth research, Dr. Kat!

[@jasperhorace7147]

Religion is medieval mumbo jumbo designed to keep ignorant and uneducated people in their place. The more education a country gives to its common people, the more secular that country becomes.

[@cmlaporte62]

Queen Mary was a zealot to her Roman Catholic faith because of her devotion and affection for her mother. For this reason, I feel she would not have been swayed from her course, even if she knew what the outcome would be.

[@NS-vw8pm]

I love when you read the writing of the period, but it’s so difficult to understand. Could you do an episode on what phrases mean, basically how to understand 16th century historical writing and/or letters ?

[@traceyu6213]

Having academia and college theologians debating whether my marriage is legitimate or not feels outrageous and really rubs me the wrong way. To trivialize such a matter…Poor Catherine must have felt so personally attacked. I wonder if Mary Tudor overcame her steadfast conviction for the truth, while once naively believing the truth is the truth and it will prevail, to believing one must manipulate a situation to overcome and prevail? I have always thought Mary held a deep dislike of Henry even after being accepted back as his daughter. She learned righteousness cost her while playing the game gave her what she wanted. As a true Christian of any denomination, forgiveness is paramount. Clearly, Mary Tudor could not find in herself to forgive any of the people involved in the offenses against her. I think she was the daughter of strong willed parents, was a strong willed woman and unfortunately, an angry and aggressive monarch. For me, she’s a sad and tragic legacy.

[@ReadingthePast]

We don’t know her inner private thoughts unfortunately, but she presents as though she saw he father as a wonderful husband, father and king who was led astray by wicked people… maybe she needed to say that? Maybe she needed to make herself believe it?

[@TheIndependentLens]

@@ReadingthePast OR . . . She actually knew this person and we don't and neither do any of our historians, so she had a different perspective on him???

[@AM-kr4pv]

@@TheIndependentLens I mean he killed two of his wives I don't think he can factually count as a good husband even if Mary thought so.

[@roseg1333]

Mary was a devote Roman Catholic and she believed in obeying one’s parents no matter how terrible one’s parents could be. It’s even in the 10 commandments. Also Henry used to dote on Mary when she was a small child and an only child. What could she possibly think would change Henry from her favor other that the people new and high ranking in his court like Anne Boleyn etc.

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

I would think the students/ theologians would have had a hard time opening up to their true thoughts, given the king had spies everywhere.

[@wickedtess9407]

Almost an hour with Dr. Kat! My Friday is complete😁

[@cwolf44]

This might be my favorite of all your videos so far. What a great presentation.

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

Yes. Eloquent and nicely paced.

[@morriganwitch]

Very thorough analysis , thank you xxx

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@juliekemp419]

A very absorbing account. I find your works excellent in giving the Human aspect to so many valiant, naughty, 'evil', brilliant and very brave characters whom you examine and present in such a short time-capsule. Thank you very much Dr Kat. PS: I really like your English comedic, sanguine expressions and verbal lilts you give in the telling of many of those amazing, valiant, 'evil', brilliant people whom you study and present here. I dropped using the term 'Bloody Mary' years ago when i virtually stopped drinking alcohol as while i am not a Catholic, i do have some empathy for the poor girl - what a tragic life she led.

[@Felidae-ts9wp]

Yet another great and informative video. Thank you as always.

[@suzannebauckham4226]

I recently found your channel and have watched a few of your videos now. I think you are brilliant, very interesting and thought provoking. Thank you!

[@OkieJammer2736]

Oh. My. SO vivid! ⚘ Your Friday posts are a joy and teach us so very much.

[@ReadingthePast]

So kind! Thank you 🌟

[@rodneyferris4089]

As usual, you challenge us and give us occasion of thought! As a former Anglican and still a pious Catholic there is that Siren Call of “Cranmerian Prose and poetry and the Treasure of the BCP of yesteryear! This is Thomas Cranmer’s veil of legitimacy and his confusing theology that plagued him and his flock for so many years! He is so much like some of our Bishops today embroiled in politics and “fad” that one never knows what to think about him. But should we really stop and look closely at the Reformation era we would see that Christ and His Gospel was no longer the source people’s reason of belief. The Spaniard, French and Germans all were so focused on the Graat Matters of their Sovereigns that their core beliefs were near nonexistent. As you once pointed out so eloquently Mary Tudor’s Catholicism was one of ritual prescription and fulfillment and allegiance to temporal heads that Catholicism was never going to regain its power over the hearts of the rulers. Rome was at fault, rulers were at fault, universities were at fault… but the very key never wavered : the people, the yeomen, the English people of humble piety. And finally… today we see some reconciliation and whose prose are used? Cranmer’s

[@ADEN1961]

I find these lectures really helpful as I dont read well ( i can read but not absorb what I read) Also I trust the analytical nature of these programs

[@louisacosentino9543]

Goodie! A nice, long video! Thanks for posting! Blessings from the US!

[@nichola607]

Always love to see your videos.

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@alayneperrott9693]

One of your best videos! Thank you. It always amazes me that Cranmer, who was in some ways a timid man, was the only person to find the courage to write to Henry VIII in support of both Anne Boleyn and Thomas Cromwell, as well as defying Henry's eldest daughter by recanting his forced confession.

[@greyjanna]

Wow! Wry interesting . Thank You so much for this

[@edmcginley8131]

Excellent commentary. England at the time of Henry 8th was a backwater. The pain caused by his created turmoil pales compared to what happened on the continent’s religious wars. Mary’s maternal line so far surpassed in prestige her father’s. I wish she recognized it and so refused to recognize her mother’s humiliation and so just left England with her loyal courtiers.

[@kathyjaneburke2798]

Cramner has always been a facinating & deviseve personality. Thank you for presenting him in an unbiased manner.

[@MHS-ql7ee]

Fantastic talk. You should do a full length documentary on Cranmer, full of period piece actors and costume pageantry!

[@Amc933]

Excellent. Many thanks for this extensive review of the times of poor Archbishop Cranmer...

[@debbralehrman5957]

Thank you Dr. Kat 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼🌹🌹🌹

[@Colleentfay]

Henry, Mary, and Cranmer were all creatures of their time. It was a cruel era and even the Tudors' claim on the English throne was tenuous at best. The reforming winds that would divide the Western Church were far larger even than the intrigues of Henry's or Mary's courts. Although comparisons are always invidious, we see played out in third decade of the 21st Century intrigues just as convoluted and, burnings at the stake exceoted, very nearly as cruel. For Mary to have left Cranmer to his own devices would have been impossible; both Queen Mary and Cranmer were on a collision course that had been set for them years before by Henry VIII.

[@mohammedpanju2236]

Extremely informative as usual, Doctor Kat. Thank you very much for sharing. 🙏🇬🇧

[@DarkSwan01]

Love this video as not many tend to cover him that often. Maybe a suggestion for future video if he wasn't covered yet, Thomas Cromwell.

[@rachael6371]

This was an incredibly fascinating watch! Thank you

[@cheryl_the_horsechick]

fabulous! i loved it! you are are right. he should have fled england. t must have been his faith kept him there.

[@lynpearson9351]

Fantastic and well-done summary. I can certainly imagine a passionate and wronged teenager holding a lasting antipathy for the man who did so much to her and her mother. Mary did many things wrong but I wonder how things would have changed had her father shown her love and compassion instead of mentally abusing her for so long. It's really a very sad story. Would you please do a video on Oxford and Cambridge. How is it that 13-14 year olds were able to enter these colleges. How were degrees achieved and is our own system of obtaining BAs, MAs and PhDs similar or very different. Who developed the degree programs and how was it decided that someone had actually obtained a degree. Thanks for your great programs, they've kept me sane and engaged through the past 2 years.

[@anniealexander9911]

I LOVED LOVED LOVED this analysis sooo so much! Thank you! This has instantly become one of my all time favourite history documentaries. I'm a psychologist and I used to teach Jennifer Freyd's betrayal trauma theory - I wonder whether that theory provides some explanation to her inability to blame her father for her suffering? She clearly suffered but, in order to literally survive, as well as maintain her claim ti the throne, as well as being financially dependent on him etc., she became "blind" to his continued betrayals of her, her mother, and her faith? Betratal trauma theory posits that children abused by a primary caregiver employ adaptive strategies to survive - namely, that forgetting the abuse. It's not quite the same, that we know of, with Mary (it would be difficult to retrospectively determine that she had forgotten that it was her father who was the instigator of her misery and abuse), but her inability to blame her father was an adaptive survival strategy while he was alive. She may have thought this was for so long that she would find it difficult to actually remember events with her father as instigator. I don't like feeling pity for Mary but I still do. Her horrific actions during her reign do not change the events of the previous 20-odd years and the cruelty inflicted upon her by her father and then his cronies. I think she changed her mind and capitulated to her father after Anne Boleyn's execution because she realised at that point that Anne's removal wasn't going to change anything for her. The woman she blamed was dead and her father hadn't changed one iota of what he wanted from Mary. Keeping Mary and Catherine apart always gets to me

[@joshuafess4295]

Your due diligence to your minute and attention to detail that you cover in your videos are absolutely crucial and that’s what makes you so fascinating thank you so much for it. You could probably have saved the History Channel for us across the pond. thank you so much for keeping history going on so many interesting characters and such a fascinating viewpoint that I’m sure most if not all your dear viewers share. ❤

[@leticiagarcia9025]

Thank you for this Dr. Kat. I didn’t know about Cranmer’s early life. Only his life as a religious reformer and his roles in Tudor history. I do admire Catherine on her principles as a true wife and as a true Queen. I wonder if Mary’s life would’ve been a bit easier if Catherine would’ve aloud her to stay by her father’s side. I think Henry took his frustrations on Catherine out on Mary. Despite of his cruelty during his reign, he did love his children. This is just my opinion. I’m open for any feedback. Have a great weekend Dr. Kat. 😊

[@ReadingthePast]

I think things would have been very different if Katherine had agreed to the annulment - for everyone!

[@leticiagarcia9025]

@@ReadingthePast I agree. Mary’s life would’ve been a bit easier. Thank you for your feedback.

[@marvellousmrsmoller]

​@@ReadingthePast As I understand it, Catherine was an inheritor of her mother's determination. She was raised with the total expectation of becoming princess of Wales and queen of England That was her destiny and identity. At first wed to Arthur, that was fulfilled, but then came his death and the necessity of her making a marriage to the next king. I am puzzled at the way the theological problems were argued though. The Old Testament clearly sets out the obligation of the next son to marry his elder brother's widow to produce an heir for him (the elder brother). Failure of that obligation was the subject of Genesis 38 . Eventually Henry VIII did take her on...as his own wife, not to have a son for his brother, but for his own hoped-for heirs. Having jumped through theological hoops to make things go one way, I am not at all surprised that she wouldn't willingly go along with undoing it. Although both Henrys seem motivated by power, and it suited Henry VIII to see himself as God's representative, I do think Catherine had a real sense of divine calling to fulfill her role. She served faithfully and well. Yes, things may have been different if she had given in. I don't think it would have been better though. Henry's tyranny was not going to be softened by one person's giving in. Many others did give in to him, she had the charachter to withstand and plead that he show just cause for the divorce instead of behaving as if anullment was right and proper just because he had changed his mind!

[@silkwormandcottontails803]

Throughly enjoyed this episode . When you showed the portrait of Cranmer my mind went back to the actor who played him in Six wives of Henry VIII, I don’t know his name but I always thought how much he looked like him . That aside I think as Cranmer was the only one left to blame he got the full force of her anger . Interesting that Mary only capitulated after Anne Boleyn was dead , obviously didn’t want to give her the satisfaction of giving in . Mary didn’t really have a happy time of it , her life was full of sadness and the one who caused most it ,her father seemed to be blame free in her eyes .

[@iSHiNE2011]

Your Tudor contenttttt = *chef's kiss*

[@lyz7323]

I always look forward to Friday’s to see an amazingly interesting video from Dr. Kat!! Thank you so much for your insightful videos, Thomas Cranmer has always been an interesting figure in my eyes. You really help resolve some questions of him and his life before entering the Tudor household. Thank you for everything you do! Much love from the states. xxx

[@Rosedawn321]

Henry’s betrayal of Katherine , Anne Boleyn’s viciousness to Mary and Cranmer’s religious bigotry created the Mary we know and “love”. I pity her and all who suffered under the reign of this deeply wounded woman.

[@kellyfrost1052]

Great video concerning a very interesting person! Also, thanks for the source list! A perfect way to maximize the value of your work! Thank you, Dr. Kat!

[@robynw6307]

I always amazes me that the population of England continued to increase over the decades and centuries, when so many of the "children" entered the clergy, or becames nuns.

[@lilly2b1]

Thoroughly enjoyable Dr kat!! . I had never heard of this man very interesting video.

[@MB-ez7lf]

One of your very best. Thank you.

[@tracyrmusic]

What a wonderful orator you are! The brutality was so chilling, gosh

[@Oceananswer]

Loving the eyeshadow today!

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 🤩

[@rebeccafranklin9915]

I’m new to your channel, I have to say I am really enjoying your commentary and views.. Thank you for your insightfulness on this subject, Well done !

[@aroseinwinter7719]

Watched this video several times. Love it

[@joan4115]

Really found this session. Learned a lot.

[@devradenny8354]

I’ve been waiting for this video all day! I think Mary would do the same thing all over again. How could she not, with what she suffered?

[@ReadingthePast]

I wonder if, had she learned of the damage this did to the image of Roman Catholicism in England, that might have been something that would change her course. I don’t know though?!?

[@cathryncampbell8555]

@@ReadingthePast I've always wondered whether Katherine of Aragon would have retired honourably to a nunnery had she realized how her refusal to accept an annulment would split the Church.

[@Master_Blackthorne]

Thank you so much for your very interesting and informative videos. I love English History especially the Tudor period. I'm off to view your one on Bloody Mary. In fairness to her, she could forgive attempts on her life but not on her faith which he obviously saw as being more attacked than she was.

[@ElliotOracle]

Dr. Kat, I’ve said it before. You are Uh-may-ZING! Thank you for these educational presentations. 💕

[@annm.7176]

Love your commentaries or documentaries.

[@tyxikosgatpopoulos4004]

Excellent video. I think.the best way to sum up what happened is that both Cranmer and Mary were in the right place or wrong place depending on your point of view at the same time.

[@lefthome3191]

Please do consider making a series on Cranmer!!! I would love to have yor intelligent, balanced narration of his story.

[@suziemartin3587]

Nothing would have changed. Mary was to set in her ways.

[@rollyherrera623]

I'm so sorry; I started the vid, and began drafting my Nursery final plans, and don't remember a thing. Rewatch! Thank You!

[@AlyxCoe]

Love the way you rolled your eyes when you mentioned Purgatory 😂❤

[@SCSkillman]

I think Mary's true reasons for condemning Cranmer were personal. Religion was hauled in as a cover. But her personal sufferings of abuse and mortification and betrayal would have held most power with her. Her religion was a sign of her identity, and that was how she clung onto it and used it.😢

[@jfs59nj]

TGIF. Time with Dr. Kat.

[@stephanbach1652]

This is a video where you really shine. The duplicity of church men is nothing new. ‘What ever is best for me is best for all.’

[@PandaBear62573]

I recently read The Burning Times by Virginia Rounding and was hoping it would include more detailed information about Cranmer, it does not though. It was a good read though. I have a lot of interest in Cranmer mostly because my son's father's family name is Cranmer. I have no idea if there is any relation unless it is known that Thomas Cranmer's descendents came to what is now New Jersey.

[@pistolannie6500]

Not meaning to dismiss or ignore anything in video... excellent as always. But couldn't help notice notice the lovely lipstick your wearing. (LOVE my lipstick.... When I do, go out, if Nothing else... I HAVE to have my lipstick!) (DAMN, covid messed w/that... HAD to switch to a little eyeshadow.. but... STILL wore my lipstick! Couldn't see it under my mask... But.. I knew, I was wearing it! LOL)

[@French-Kiss24]

Cranmer is a priest who marries, twice. He does the king’s bidding. I wonder how deep his convictions actually were. I don’t know enough, but he seems to go wherever the favorable wind takes him.

[@bellamamma767]

Yes!!! I would love a series!!❤️❤️🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰