Henry VIII's Religion: Exploring "A Protestant Allegory"

[@60th60th]

He seems to have been able to convince himself to sincerely believe anything that was convenient to him at the time

[@terri200]

Kind of reminds me of the recent ex-president of the US. People that believe anything they want is the truth! Scary how history can repeat itself. Thank God we have more say then anyone did in the past!!

[@SF-ru3lp]

insecurity and a sense of entitlement.

[@SF-ru3lp]

A medieval narcissist surely.... predicated on both insecurity and a sense of entitlement.

[@prettybirdbeenlpeacock6592]

@@terri200 Oh give the commentary of recent political stuff a rest! I come to hear about British history. And don't reply with "if we don't know past history", blah, blah blah.

[@--enyo--]

Yup

[@louiseoliver3453]

Our GCSE history teacher was very insistant that we know Henry remained a Catholic despite splitting with Rome. On our last lesson before GCSEs he asked "Henry VIII was never what religion?" And the class wit replied 'Buddhist"

[@trinadubya3406]

Well, that person wasn't wrong!

[@Graciebell0517]

A king used to getting his own way throws a fit when someone tells him no.

[@neilkoch5481]

Hour long episodes of Reading the past would be fantastic.

[@drjeandewet3747]

His actions fit so well with the picture of a patient with traumatic brain injuries and loss of impulse control that it makes difficult to read to deeply into his actions.

[@kaybrown4010]

I’m glad you brought this up.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I’ve always thought he was a Catholic, except as it was inconvenient to him. He could very easily ignore his religious beliefs if there were power, money or personal gratification to be gained by doing so.

[@maureenoleary1835]

He was and remained so.

[@megwyn1611]

I always figured it wasn't the biggest deal in the world for him as he left Mary I in the line.

[@annwilliams6438]

@@megwyn1611 Henry only re-instated her shortly before his death. For many , many years she was called lady mary rather than princess.

[@Ammeeeeeeer]

Henry only believed in Henry.

[@roslynholcomb]

Henry was a politician and much like today’s politician’s he ‘believed’ what was convenient and expedient to believe.

[@dougr.2398]

In a way it is profoundly an operational definition “do whatever works” but does the means justify the ends or vice versa? (Rhetorical question!)

[@R08Tam]

His motivation appears to be firstly lust, followed by avarice and always needing to be seen to be in control.

[@janellinger4492]

I grew up thinking of Henry as a protestant. As I read more in adulthood, I realized that wasn't true. Henry's ego allowed him to "believe" whatever was most expedient at the moment. Henry moved the reform movement forward, I think, unintentionally. The art is so interesting. I very much enjoy your ideas

[@hablin1]

No he was the head of the Church of England like the Queen is the head of the church today it is more like the catholic religion! He wanted a divorce but the Pope said no so he invented his own religion 😍 Martin Luther is the father of the the Protestant faith because he Protested against the catholic faith hence the name 😃🥰

[@JannaWillard]

@@hablin1 Luther also died a Catholic.

[@jfs59nj]

Henry VIII, once so promising, devolved into a Monster-Tyrant who believed only in a God-Pope-King named Henry, and increasingly little else.

[@SuperManning11]

This is how I imagine Trump would be with unlimited power. Thank god for democracy…while we still have it!

[@henryford2950]

As if "democracy" ever even existed, Stephen.

[@remycallie]

@@SuperManning11 I have shocking news for you. This is how 99% of everyone would be with unlimited power. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[@nikbear]

You left out 'Closet misogynist' to his many titles!

[@Elvertaw]

He’s a man of his time. A man, who is told since birth, that he was special because of his birth. He becomes King and believes the advertising. He becomes King and wants an heir. He’s a man who likes a chase. He’s a man who finally found a women who could play him but couldn’t play biology. He’s a man who can lie to himself. He’s a man with power. Rinse and repeat throughout history.

[@kickthespike]

I think anyone who could do as he did couldn’t really believe in anything other than his own power

[@elizabethraitanen5057]

I get the impression that Henry was motivated by self-interest. I am not so sure faith was a factor.

[@ruthannemackinnon588]

You're onto something here 👍

[@tokkia1384]

I definitely think he was religious. But he thought that his perceptions and interpretation of religion was correct. He was so full of himself he thought he had a direct line to god. A lot of his behaviour does point to him genuinely believing in the Christian God. He definitely used it for political gain but I think he thought the political machinations that arose were a message/sign to him from God .

[@hollycampbell4103]

Before everything else, Henry was a narcissist. He would use and discard women, politics, people and religion as soon as he believed they were no longer useful and/or didn't bend to his will. Everything, was disposable. His relationships were transactional as was, I believe his religion. If he wasn't given what he wanted from the church, he simply discarded it and bent religion to fit his own agenda.

[@mac7406]

Brilliant video! Very thought provoking. I think Henry VIII, like most Kings wanted to bend the will of the world to his way. But Henry took it a step further and tried to bend the will of the Holy Roman Catholic Church and found he could not. But knowing the value of the control religion had on the masses, he knew he had to "create" what turned out to be a hybrid of the Catholic religion to appease the masses, yet make himself the Head of that religion for even more power. Avarice and hypocrisy indeed.

[@marleneflanagan7137]

I've always thought Henry took advantage of people breaking away from Rome to change things to suit his ever changing whims.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I’ve never seen this picture before, fascinating. You always cover such interesting things, Dr. Kat.

[@morriganwitch]

Wow a picture says a thousand words . Thank you , I think Henry ‘s faith was Henry xxx

[@kateh2007]

I believe that Henry VIII was always a Roman Catholic in his heart of hearts. As the second son he had little expectation of being King and was extremely fervent in his belief, to the point of wanting to actually join the Church at one time. The grateful Pope granted him the title "Defender of the Faith" due to this religious fervour. A title which our present monarch uses today, erroneously imho as a she is a non Roman Catholic. I feel that Cardinal Wolsey was inept in negotiations with Rome and worsened the precarious situation, then of course his immediate successor Thomas Cromwell, the well known arch enemy of Anne Boleyn, became the main protagonist in the Dissolution of the Monasteries. The primary motivation was to plunder the wealth of said buildings and all religious institutions to fill Henry's coffers. Whatever Henry personally thought of the Act of Supremacy I think that he went along with it as it was expedient to do so for the sake of fathering a son and heir and raising money at that particular moment in time. I hope that yourself Dr Kat, Jaime and the gorgeous Gabriel are all keeping safe and well ❤

[@maureenoleary1835]

He remained Catholic

[@peterlewerin4213]

You know better, but it struck me at first sight that the "frying pan and candlestick" detail also seems to suggest the "lamp under a bushel" parable in various gospels, or "to hide one's light under a bushel" in proverb form. In that case the meaning would seem to be that the RCC has not only withheld their god-given light, but allowed it to go out.

[@ReadingthePast]

I can see that too - by giving into concerns of the flesh they have allowed it to happen, maybe?

[@AmberGraves80]

As someone who has switched religions, I feel certain that Henry mixed many aspects of his original Catholic faith in with his Protestant ideals, especially the more comforting things and those he had been particularly passionate about when he was younger. I do believe his original pull to the Protestant faith was a mix of ego, lust, and fear of failing to leave an heir, I think with time some of the religion's ideals became appealing to him. I think most people could study a religion other than their own and find some things that ring true to them, and since a lot of what he read was empowering to himself, it just makes sense that he would approve.

[@gonefishing167]

Hello Dr Kat, as usual a great video. Darn it, hubby and I went to Hampton court is 2003 ( it was pouring with rain as it is now in country south Australia 🇦🇺) but I didn’t see that portrait. Think I just walked around with eyes ‘agog’. Perhaps if we’d had a guide to inform us, we would’ve seen it. It’s so hard , faced with so many jaw dropping things , to see everything. We were sooooo spoiled. My husband had a walker and they allowed us to go in a different way. There was me, a history freak, going in old doors with original keys and up a staircase which was not used much. Seventh heaven. Same at Windsor castle ( thank you rain!) and again at Versailles ( not raining but still special. We didn’t even have to walk from the tour bus. They dropped us off just about at the door! Very , very spoiled. Memories for life). Sorry for rambling , gets me a tad 😢😢 with memories - but they’re lovely 😥😥☺️☺️🇦🇺🇦🇺

[@mammacatp.i.6551]

Dr Kat, please do more in-depth explanations on works of art in all history periods! I absolutely love and learn so much from your style of presentation. Also interestingly, the information seems to stick with me which also shows how unique and awesome you are as an educator. Many, many thanks for your gifts & talents.

[@KatTheScribe]

I think Henry believed in Henry, and so as his interests wandered so did his beliefs. Thank you for another enlightening and thought provoking video. I, too, enjoy reading the conversations in the comments section :-)

[@earthalydelights]

Spain was immensely more powerful than England at the time Henry sought to have Rome side with him against their princess royal. It's mind boggling that he can have thought they'd acquiesce to what he wanted. The sheer hubris of the man was always his greatest weakness. He was an absolutist at home. Unchallenged and all powerful as he had been all his adult life in England he could never accommodate himself to the notion that internationally he was a minor player whose bombast and posturing were derided as the tantrums of an ill-tempered infant. If you ask me he didn't believe in anything except his own innate right to have exactly what he wanted the moment he demanded it and that was his ultimate downfall. The success of the Tudors in the national psyche was all down to the accident of fate which led to Edward & Mary dying so Elizabeth could have the throne. Without her the dynasty would have been remembered as a tale of disastrous despots.

[@jared1870]

Thank you for introducing this work of art to me. I believe Henry's desperate need for a male heir, his lust, and potential political alliances caused him to adopt a new religion that shifted according to his needs. I wouldn't have fared well in his court because I would have been in a constant state of anxiety. I am now in the 16th Century with you, investing in books I really cannot afford but justify. I'm still trying to recover from reverses of the pandemic, and am hopeful will be successful before you introduce your "But, what do you think?" merchandise. =)

[@remycallie]

Throughout his life, Henry, like other great tyrants, such as Stalin, maintained power by constantly playing one side against the other. If any one person or group that Henry had favored appeared to be getting too much power, Henry (like Stalin) would suddenly shift direction and begin supporting their opponents. Nobody was allowed to rise higher than his knee without being cut down. The fact that he lived at a time when two major factions of Christianity were at each other's throats suited him perfectly.

[@featuresofinterest]

Dear Dr. Kat, I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your videos. I've been watching them for a while now and find them fascinating. What I appreciate most, and find is quite rare even among high profile historians, is that you present all the facts and evidence available to us about events, explore multiple possibilities, but never push your own personal opinion on us. It's so refreshing compared to many of the historical documentaries I have grown up watching. It is such an honest and ethical approach to what we can often forget were the lives and legacies of real human beings. Like you, I find exploring the possibilities of the thoughts and motives of those people very exciting and interesting, more so than trying to form one single narrative out of all the evidence. Thank you for the work you are doing, looking forward to your next video as always!

[@ringo4419]

Meeeee I'm first! Like that painting, very symbolic, reminds me of Blake, though the style is different, as for old Henry, my my did he have a few issues!!

[@vidaudink3044]

Lol!

[@lydiaaragon6066]

I'm Always Amazed By Your Videos Kat Keep Up The Excellent Work!😊

[@TheSuperLegoMan100]

everyone gangsta until katrina says "if youre new here, hi, you're very welcome"

[@fatnsassy99]

This comment 😂😭🤣😎

[@thehaus6998]

I've honestly just recently watched the tudor series,I really loved it and finding this channel is a blessing and allowes intresting insite to mostly Tudor era intruige and intersting persons

[@madonnashelton7913]

Love your videos. I've always wondered about the life of Henry Fitzroy. There doesn't seem to be much out there about him, and I would love to hear you speak on his life.

[@iriswaterford8881]

I thought she had.

[@madonnashelton7913]

@@iriswaterford8881 I scrolled through all the videos and didn't see one.

[@iriswaterford8881]

@@madonnashelton7913 sorry, perhaps it was on the channel History Roadshow.

[@wendymoyer782]

I think my favourite videos ARE those where you look in depth at piece of art...I so enjoy them! Thank you.

[@prettypic444]

I've always found protestant history to be fascinating- I'd be interested to know how the reformers later transformed into puritans and separatists

[@gailcbull]

Interesting subject! I've always thought of Henry's motivations being primarily based in his desire to produce a male heir. After listening to your argument, I think that an over-simplification. I now think Henry understood how the ideas of the reformation could benefit him, but he was always Catholic in his private beliefs. To him, the reformation was a useful political tool that allowed him to expand his power and wealth. He liked that it gave him the excuse he needed to confiscate the wealth of the monasteries, annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, and expand his power over church and state. But ultimately, he saw reformist ideas as a convenient political tool. The painting "A Protestant Allegory" was nothing more to him then useful political propaganda. I think in his private beliefs, he was always Catholic.

[@marpop4056]

And the allegory could well have been wishful thinking on how he might be viewed by God at his death. The dissolution of the monasteries gave him great wealth, and, what wealth he didn't spent himself, he could transfer to those who supported whatever he wanted.

[@leslieangus6660]

I believe at heart Henry was always a Catholic. However like a petulant child who does not get his way, he lashes out at "father". In this case "father" being the Church. It is also my opinion that once he had granted this power to himself he was never likely to give it up. I think the bigger question is " If Henry had never met Anne, would there have been a reformation?" I think the simple answer is, no.

[@MistbornPrincess]

Well, the Protestant Reformation was already taking place in Germany and maybe other places. 1517 was Luther’s 95 Theses. I imagine things just would have been a little different in England. The Reformation might have come later or had purer motivations than Henry had.

[@calendarpage]

Completely shallow response here - the blouse is very cute! How's the baby doing?

[@ginadelfina5887]

When I think of Henry VIII, I usually think "flexible conscience" and "spoiled tyrant." Thoughtful & interesting video as usual. One thing I have noticed the past two videos, though - the sound quality is not as good as usual; it's a bit echoey.

[@historybuff7491]

I have always thought of Henry as a reformer, not quite a protestant. I honestly think Henry thought the "Pope" would grant an annulment. When that didn't happen, Henry was mad/very angry. After all, kings and other high nobles were able to set aside their wives (usually). That Henry was denied must have made him believe that the Pope (and other European churchman) didn't think of him as a true king. His father had to stomp out all those who wouldn't accept his kingship. Henry probably saw this as a slap in the face by the Church and was angry. So he broke with the Church, and seemingly killing all those that didn't agree with that.

[@marpop4056]

The difference between Henry and other kings who had set aside their wives through annulment was that those other kings hadn't been given a dispensation to marry their wives in the first place. In any case, the pope was a prisoner of Charles V of Spain, who was Catherine's nephew at the time Henry asked for the annulment, so he wasn't necessarily free to do as he pleased in regard to Henry's request.

[@historybuff7491]

@@marpop4056 I know the difference and you know the difference, but I don't think Henry saw it that way. I really think he saw it as the Pope, and the Church at large, were questioning his right to be King. That made him angry.

[@jjudy5869]

When you surround yourself with 'yes' people and you have 'power', then you set yourself up for the old refrain about power and corruption. It was true then and is still true today. Take a good hard look at the sad state of local, regional, national and global politics.

[@valerieshepherd956]

Loved this. Thank you. It would be great to have a mix of all your videos that related to Hampton Court. Would be a cool way to view the property. They do have a wonderful audio tour that I've enjoyed many times. This would be a new way to go a bit more in-depth. Just a thought ---

[@KatherineHugs]

Lovely, informative video as usual Dr. Kat!

[@jdmaine919]

Exellent video. Have you read Eamon Duffy's books, "The Stripping of the Altars" and "Marking the Hours"? Fascinating stuff. That Henry could go from Defender of the Faith to destroyer of the same in such a short time is really fascinating to me. I love this topic!

[@Dreymasmith]

That painting is beautiful. If I ever get back to the UK I will be seeking it out at Hampton Court Palace. The "greyscale" is a technique called grisaille (usually without gilding), usually created with burnt umber and lead white, although there are different combinations. The worst thing the pope could do was name Henry Defender of the Faith, gave him ideas. Henry's religion, his belief, was clearly whatever gave him the most power and self-satisfaction.

[@daughteroftime8047]

The irony is that Henry himself was the one led by avarice and hypocritical to a murderous degree.

[@memyselfi8461]

You have a gift. You somehow paint gray knowledge in my head, into beautifully colored historically accurate facts.

[@elizabethturel78]

Always like your info. Being an American and a Catholic, I think that the church should have stayed out of a country’s business/politics long before. However, being men and having faults they all wanted to have the power. Really King Henry had so many motives, it’s so convoluted, but he wanted it his way. The Church could not have fixed the situation. Thanks for your instruction.💜

[@obcl8569]

Ooh! Ooh! Thank you 🤗 And these are my favorite to watch! Lovely coincidence 💕 Positively giddy to spend these next 20 mins with you 😊

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@BobbiesScott]

I would like that multi episode series about the reformation you spoke of please 😂😂

[@asmahk76]

I saw the painting while visiting Hampton Court Palace 3 weeks ago! 😊

[@zzydny]

Henry was motivated by his own ego. He was easily led by others who told him what he wanted to hear. At the end of things, no matter what he had done, he knew that he could receive Extreme Unction and thus gain forgiveness for his sins. No matter what, he got what he wanted and he was (at least in his own mind) going to end up where he wanted because the king was answerable only to God. Really Not an admirable ruler. As to the artwork, it seems to me that it's similar to a person today cutting out of the newspaper a political cartoon or recording a meme that is snarky. Henry would have liked it because he could sneer at the papacy for not doing as he wanted. It's not a positive comment on English protestantism; it's just a nasty comment on the Roman Catholic church.

[@i.aint.1.of.ur.little.friends]

I love your videos so much! And you have such a great and pleasant voice to listen to whilst I do my chores.

[@DavidBrowningBYD]

New subscriber here. Enjoying the videos I've seen. I'm not a scholar of any sort, but your information closely aligns with the understanding I have gained in my limited education and long experience in American anglo-Catholic (or "High Episcopal") church music. Weren't there also political factors? Wasn't the Pope's reluctance to grant the request of one of his favorite monarchs related to his own relationship to the monarchy of Spain, whence had come Catherine? Based on what you and other historians say, it appears to me that Henry made a rash decision, which his supporters sought to reinforce with alternative ideas from reformers on the continent, while those who worshiped the Bishop of Rome sought to reverse it. And I agree with the opinion of another commenter that Henry seems to have been easily manipulated. This would suggest other notions I have heard mentioned, that Henry would have been happy to have a church that mirrored that of Rome, so long as he was the head of it, but listened to the reformers who didn't want any such thing.

[@DeidreL9]

I can’t imagine how stressful living in those times must have been. The only safe belief seems to have been whatever was legal that day. How many people hid their true beliefs and struggled with this in private. I can’t imagine living like that. Terrifying, absolutely terrifying.

[@naurrr]

hi, I'm not sure if this is helpful concrit since this is a month old and maybe the microphone problems are no longer an issue, but it the audio sounds very echo-y in this one for some reason. if it's not a result of microphone settings eg accidentally leaving it on a circular recording pattern instead of cardioid pattern (picks up sound from your direction and not the whole room) you might want to install some wall mounted sound dampening foam like I've seen some streamers use to minimize wall echo on the mic pickup. I hope this is helpful but if the issue of the room echo has been fixed already that's great. thank you again for your awesome work.

[@wickedwitch3520]

I do enjoy your look at and insight into art! Thank you 😊

[@lizryan6289]

Great video on Henry VIII's avarice, narcissism, sociopathy, and hypocrisy. Henry's religion was what suited him at the time.

[@marpop4056]

Henry couldn't get his own way with the pope, so he broke. He was neither Henry II of England, nor Henry IV of the Holy Roman Empire, both of whom repented. Of course, neither of those 2 Henrys actually broke with the church. Henry wanted, what he wanted, and he had the power to get what he wanted. He didn't care what people believed as long as they paid lip service to his supremacy.

[@nickaustin6298]

It is often forgotten or not realized from this distance just how important it was to pass on a male heir. I believe that Henry was a devout Catholic who lived in a world of Real Politik and he had to do what he had to do to ensure that he could conceive a male heir. Not to have done so would’ve been a failure to him. This is what drove him but he also found himself in a world of reformers and protestants whom he relied on. Edward WAS Protestant and was allowed to be. Mary swung the pendulum the other way.....And always in the background was the genius Elizabeth who tried to allow both sides to accept each other until the open threats and assassination attempts forced her hand It was a great time of flux. We look for answers that are simple black and white responses, but we must put ourselves where they stand to get near to understanding how bleak the times were. Thanks Kat I enjoyed that

[@flossierc]

Hi! Could you talk about Georgiana Duchess of Devonshire, married to William Cavendish? P. S. I love your videos and you were such a blessing to me when I was heavily pregnant last year, I struggled to sleep and your voice was so calm and soothing it would send me right to sleep! 😊 Xx

[@sherryfronterhouse8512]

Henry was married to Catherine of Aragon for over 20 years, which is a significant fact when discussing this topic. I've read many accounts of his life and have come to the conclusion he simply grew weary of his marriage and lack of a male heir (he is said to have believed in the divine right of kings) and that, coupled with his lust for other women, led him to try to justify a divorce that was simply not possible without extraordinary measures. Perhaps he did believe he was cursed for marrying his brother's wife and had been denied a son by God. His behavior is what speaks loudest to me...the things he actually did. He tried to walk the line and held on to plausible deniability for himself until his death. To me, his behavior was not demonstrative of a man with true religious conviction either way...he simply wanted what he wanted and had the power to obtain it. Like many slick, selfish politicians we suffer through today. I feel true empathy for the people who endured his reign and ping-ponging religious views and demands. The art work is fascinating and I cannot wait to see it in person!!!

[@genewisniewski]

Fascinating, and thank you. Doing a presentation on the Tudors and this was very helpful. You are aware I suppose that R. Catholics refer to the Anglican/Episcopal churches as "Catholic Lite"?

[@debraraby4376]

Dr Kat, I love your channel. You have such a warm manner and wear your learning lightly. The research that goes into your videos is truly impressive. History was/is my favourite subject. I learnt so much history from reading Jean Plaidy as a child (have you read her?) and to this day she is my comfort read. I recently read Hiliary Mantel's trilogy on Thomas Cromwell. Her take on Cromwell was very different from Plaidy's. Any chance of a proper historian (you) giving an interpretation of Cromwell's character please? Many thanks again for your wonderful and interesting videos.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I love Jean Plaidy’s books, too. They led me, as a child, to my interest in history. That’s the best thing about historical fiction, it’s the gateway to an appreciation of history. I like her sanitized, non-vulgar approach, too, in my opinion, the addition of “hot sex’ scenes adds nothing at all to recent historical fiction, it’s just more boring porn to be skipped.

[@janfranklin2114]

Thank you, I learned a lot from this video. I was aware of the hodgepodge nature of the Church after the split from Rome but my understanding of the events are much better now.

[@marpop4056]

Dr. Kat - I recently heard about a woman named Amelia Lanyer, who was a poet. I'd appreciate it if you'd talk about her in a future episode of Reading the Past.

[@denisehill7769]

Here's a What If.....if Anne had set aside her scruples, and become a mistress of Henry; no resultant son, but no treason and thus no execution (not just herself but the men executed before her); what would the reformation have looked like then?

[@ReadingthePast]

I wonder if or when the break from Rome would have happened in these circumstances. He might have become fixated on legitimising Fitzroy instead. There would probably have been another foreign bride after Katherine of Aragon’s death - no scandalous marriage to Anne arguably means no marriage to Jane - maybe the second wife has a son 🤷🏻‍♀️ what do you think?

[@denisehill7769]

@@ReadingthePast I think the break would have happened, given the other powers pushing for a reformation - and once Henry realised there was money in it, I'm sure it was a no-brainer. Interesting to think that, say, having legitimised Fitzroy, would he then have re-bastardised him in favour of his actual legitimate heir? I have to say I doubt a marriage with Jane Seymour would have happened without the marriage to Anne - for one thing, what would have been the attraction? However, without Anne there would have been no Elizabeth (or possibly Edward). Mary would surely have been lower down the royal pecking order had Henry married another princess. It's an interesting premise! My husband recently suggested a good story could be made from What If Prince Arthur had lived his normal lifespan; now there's food for thought! :)

[@philipcone357]

Many of my Catholic family and friends who went to Catholic High School have become Episcopal. Which is the Anglican Church in America.

[@laurenjeangreenbean6301]

The lapsed catholic might say that the combination of power, money, and an assurance of forgiveness from God and the church really does in action, give Henry the best of both worlds. He can always turn back to his holy mother in extreme unction, or just in his heart, depending on how reform had altered him, if at all. I had never seen that, nor heard of him cultivating any reform style art!! Love to see more on this concept!!

[@dewrock2622]

It is evident that Henry believed is Henry first and foremost. He acted in the way that would give him as much power as he can. If he was a youngster we could say he was a confused teenager, but he was a man. A man who was power hungry and driven by his desperate need for an heir. Something his father kept saying was his duty and he failed to do it. If Anne boleyn would have given him a son, we might have seen England becoming a protestant country gradually, but she didn't and all of his action later were of a man who acts for his own benefit, having a belief in the fate , in the corner of his mind, that kept nagging him and reminding him of the after life...

[@ellenbryn]

While David Starkey's racist imperialism taints his historian's eye, I find it impossible to shake off his thesis, explicated in his 3-part documentary on his favorite monarch, that Henry, highly-educated and rather full of himself, was not so much concerned with Catholic or Protestant, as with the doctrine of the Royal Supremacy. Starkey asserted that Henry's wholehearted and permanent adoption of the Supremacy was connected with his yearning for glory, which took many forms from youth to old age: first in his jousting and wars with France, then in the Field of Cloth of Gold where Wolsley positioned him as Peacemaker and Arbiter of Europe, and then as the head of the English church. Didn't Starkey say he was called "Henry the Great" in his own day? And that wasn't quite like Richard II assuming he was divinely blessed with "highness." Henry truly wanted to ACHIEVE greatness, in ways large and small. (He wanted Anne of Cleves to swoon in his arms. He was never more frustrated than when people failed to recognize him as the hero.) I also think it significant that Henry kept the "Defender of the Faith" title the Pope bestowed on him, despite repudiating the Pope. That was what Henry fixated on, once he could no longer win glory on the tiltyard, on the battlefield, on the stage of Europe, or in the arena of courtly love. I think Henry saw himself as the spiritual Father of his people, saving their souls from a corrupt church and Pope, writing learned commentary on the Bible as no king had done before and grappling with matters of translation and doctrine, steering a Middle Way between the excesses of the Puritans and the Papists. As usual, his self-portrait glamorized a less flattering figure: he was an insecure, impotent (probably literally) stinking old man who rather liked the idea of having a hotline to God, who ruled his people's souls as well as their bodies. And yes, becoming wealthy by sacking the monasteries probably had its appeal. I'm also reminded of the portrait with his parents and the inscription that explains he outshone his illustrious father in one respect: while Henry VII ended the Wars of the Roses, Henry VIII was greater than his father for restoring the true church [from the POPE]. That seems to be the great deed he wanted to be known for. In all this, I don't see much loyalty or inclination to either Protestantism or Catholicism. Religion was what Henry said it was. Protestants and Catholics had to fall in line with HIS views on religion, or be burned at the stake/executed for treason.

[@charmainejay7515]

Hi i luv your channel its always very interesting. Could you please tell us more about Helena the Red. I believe she was very close to Queen Elizabeth 1. After research we found out she is part of our family history.

[@galemckiddy5120]

Super as usual. Thanks!

[@ieatzebraarah]

After reading the Red Queen I could only imagine what Henry VIII’s grandmother Margaret Beaufort would think of his reign. From my understanding of her piety she would have been appalled.

[@possumaintdead]

Hmm. I grew up in a strict Presbyterian household and was told at some point that Anglicans/Episcopalians were just Catholics without the Pope. Sort of a compromise, in fact, between Catholics and Protestants. As Anglicanism (is that the right term? Sounds weird) is the national religion of England, and started with Henry, I’d say he was always a Catholic. But also wanted his own way, and that won out in the end, thus the Anglican faith. BTW, if any of my facts are incorrect, let me know. I’ve always been shaky on theology!

[@estrellagarciazamora8721]

May I observe that Jesus stopped a mob from stoning a woman by saying "Whoever is free of sin" etc. I mean, I see a bit of a contradiction in the picture.

[@Muggle1983]

It is so cool you covered this.

[@999Giustina]

The painting being in shades of grey speaks volumes to me; being a bit of both religious worlds.

[@therealghostgirl]

I’m sure lust played a part initially, due to being refused the mistress he so wanted. But I truly believe the true issue at hand was not having a male heir. Henry knew his wife wasn’t having any more children and needed to do something. Anne B played on this point, ensuring she could have a boy. With all that being said, I don’t think Henry had much faith at all in any religion.

[@JannaWillard]

I think that this history really explains a lot about why the Anglican Church is what it is. We are the "middle way" between protestantism and Roman Catholicism. I kind of wish we would celebrate that more, even if the history isn't so great.

[@Fluffymonkeyem]

Thanks Dr. Kat for another fascinating topic! I love history and the way you teach Tudor history is fabulous. I always feel bad for Mary. Her father really royally (ha) screwed her over.

[@darlenefarmer5921]

Thank you

[@nikbear]

Excellent video Dr Kat👍 would you mind if I make some suggestions for future work? Sir Walter Raleigh. Christopher Marlowe (A favourite of mine) Giordano Bruno.

[@dabhidhm4093]

I think Henry was torn between his reverence for the Catholic faith and his anger at any man, including the Pope, who would defy his authority over his own life and country. I don't think he ever stopped being Catholic in his heart, which is why you have the confusing situation of his continued support of Catholic sacraments in spite of his Protestant clergy. Also, I believe his sacking of the churches and abbeys and murder of rebellious priests and monks to have been driven by pure greed and lust for vengeance. Stealing the Church's treasures and lands helped to shore up his shrinking coffers, and Catholic rebellion against his authority over the Church was a perfect excuse. However, I believe he also still resented Protestants such as Luther for opposing his Defense of the Seven Sacraments and therefore had no wish to join or support their cohort. If Henry was certain of anything, it was that he would never admit that he was wrong. This made him truly an island as a man - unwilling to seek rapprochement with the Pope, and unwilling to embrace the emerging Protestant faith. It was disastrous for both his people and himself.

[@MichelleH1791]

@dadhidh m well said. In the end, Henry's ego was his largest enemy.

[@slik1977]

I believe he considered himself a good Catholic but like people everywhere both then and now chose to pick and chose the parts of the religion that suited him at the time

[@nichola607]

Thank you for your videos

[@annewren8845]

Hi Dr Kat, I was talking to a Warder in St Georges’ Chapel Windsor last Friday about Henrys’ tomb, and I asked why no one followed his wishes, re; using Cardinal Wolsleys’ unused tomb for himself? And the Warder replied that he was like the Trump of his day, his people despised him for bankrupting the country, so he was just placed in an unmarked tomb, until the 1800s, when a black marble stone was laid to show where he laid in death.

[@kathleenem9207]

He seems to be an adherent of the Church of Henry- religiously fluid depending on his needs and desires. In the end I think his fear and belief in Hell and Purgatory pushed him toward whichever faith offered him salvation and perhaps that was a little of both, Catholicism and the Protestant viewpoint.

[@barbarahowarth4953]

Hello, love your work Dr Kat. The title card for this video reads Henry VII not Henry VIII, so this video was not nearly as interesting as I thought it would be. Or is that deliberate click bait for the well educated you are using there?

[@shakespearaamina9117]

Thank you ❤️

[@annettekoonce8122]

I agree with the comment below. However, I would put it this way: Henry's goal was ALWAYS political or personal expediency. He managed to get whatever he wanted when he wanted it. Was there any reaction when he was buried as a Catholic?

[@ckcribbs8577]

Kings and Popes/the Roman Catholic church have had struggles long before Henry VIII and it seemed to depend on who the Pope was and what king they supported (French, Holy Roman Emp, Spanish, etc). However, with the rise of the Reformation and its supporters, I think Henry VIII capitalized on its movement. He gained control of the churches money and their laws (priests answering to Rome and not him, etc). If he had any true Faith, I'm not sure history would be the same.

[@rasingirl75]

Henry was all about Henry and what he needed to do to get what he wanted. He may have been raised Catholic and married his 1st wife, a good Catholic princess, but he always had an agenda. He wanted to fill the coffers, produce an heir, and have nice things. But actions have consequences and sonetimes one awful act leads to another, even a seemingly contradictory one. Like a tangled spiderweb. I always wonder what would've happened had little Henry duke of Cornwall survived and been the heir. Would we even have heard of Anne Boleyn? Would Henry have split from Rome? Would we never have then had Edward or Elizabeth?

[@GailMailable]

Henry was addicted to power, like most monarchs and politicians. He liked the idea of being head of the church in England, simply because he could do what he wanted, without answering to anyone. That being said, I don’t think he would have ever broken from Rome if Anne Boleyn never came into his life. After her execution, I think his pride wouldn’t allow him to walk the whole thing back.

[@ameliecarre4783]

I suppose the presence of the idea of God in people's lives then, kings and peasants alike, was too strongly established to not have influence, but the wealthy, powerful and entitled, used to have their way, wouldn't let faith in or fear of God stop them. Dogmas look carved un stone because that's how they're presented to us by those who want to impose them, but they're actually shifting always, depending on the will of whoever is holding the reins at the moment. Interpretations change, and it's easy for popes and kings to justify and rationalize their decisions by retroactively saying they align with God's will. In the end it's just about control. Having it, and appearing like you have it. That's what Henry did, that's what you can expect the faith of a king's son to be. To be fair, both the popes mentioned here were Medici. Their rise to the top position was never left to chance either. Whatever their personal qualities, they were supposed to favor Florence and the interests of their family, and they're very good examples of what the papacy was, avaricious and hypocrite indeed.

[@michellecornum5856]

This just confirms what I already knew. Henry VIII was an obviously dangerous man, and the number of men and women who died proving this point was astounding. It was astounding not for the fact that they died, but for the fact that they saw what was going on around them and still held the foolhardy notion that they held some sort of sway with him. God may punish you for eternity, but Henry will take your head off NOW. I would not want to be the one to point out that he missed something in the church officiations. The best way to survive in Tudor England, indeed, was to agree with The King -- or Queen -- or whomever -- immediately, and keep your personal beliefs between you and God. Pray in secret and in silence.

[@fatherjohnholoduekoca4587]

I have always viewed Henry's church to be as Catholic as possible without being politically so! The church was as Protestant as he could "stomach" it, to maintain the friendship of Cramner and the Reformers. Honestly, he wanted to continue to be a Roman Catholic, while retaining his Local Control. Had the Pope granted the Annulment, he probably would have stayed, so long as his politics was favourable with Europe...but we will never know that! If the Cardinal-Chancellor had his way? We might be looking at a different England! Instead, we have some blended ecclesial community which is quite different than what the Reformation could have ever imagined....

[@ellencook1658]

Henry was in a tough spot, torn between church and country. He was England. He was defender of the Faith. As embodiment of the nation, he had to have a male heir. The War of the Roses had left England with a National case of PTSD. I don’t think he was ever truly happy (except for the few days between the birth of Edward and the death of Jane Seymour) after the church refused him his divorce. I’m sure he viewed that as a Royal screwing betrayal by the church he loved. Screwing him was screwing England. Not cool. The Pope wasn’t going to spit on Katherine of Aragon’s relative, the Holy Roman Emperor and grant a divorce. Henry had to get creative. He wasn’t about to go Lutheran. Ever. But he sure had to protect England from another war of succession. He had no choice.

[@TheLadyhawk11862]

Henry was mostly interested in power role and to hold power so as long as it's as the Roman Church has run but hope Henry would never recognize that I do think his face was basically Roman Catholic more so than Protestant it was convenient for someone who was as egotistical as power-hungry as Henry to disregard the pope to gain more power so that he also has temporal as well as spiritual control of his subjects

[@margeoconnor166]

The Protestant Allegory looks more like a reply to the excommunication of Henry. The sacramentals of extinguished candle and book are being destroyed and dismissed as empty symbols of supposed authority.

[@gabrielleschiavo9078]

Just an FYI - the audio is echo-ey. Like your mike isn't picking up the audio itself but the camera is.