What is the North American Lutheran Church (NALC)?

[@JustinCage56]

Slight off topic, but I was just reaffirmed into the Lurthan church at my LCMS church today!

[@unit2394]

Epic! We had three confirmands in our LCMS church today!

[@iaboiler]

May God bless your faith journey!

[@dustinhellstern7728]

I’m an *Assemblies of God* Member but I 💚Love the LUTHERAN⛪️MiSSOURi Synod!!! You Are a very important part of The Body of Christ.

[@BliBlub4000]

Great News!

[@JustinCage56]

Thanks for all the kind works, everyone! 1 Corinthians 16:23-24 "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you. My love to all of you in Christ Jesus. Amen"

[@sdb6757]

I’m an NALC member. The National Association of Letter Carriers. A great Union!

[@BirdDogey1]

Someone had to "post" it.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Do you bring Good News?

[@JacobWagner-o4f]

ELCA on paper has the most memebers but not in practice. According to both LCMS and ELCA annual reports ELCA has a 483k weekly attendance while the LCMS has a 522k weekly attendance.

[@alejandropoczynokh]

Theological liberalism only leads to attendance bleeding

[@RevancedBurner]

I believe you, but where do these stats come from?

[@jillefeldme9452]

We left the ELCA after many years of feeling like the ELCA left us. There was no NALC church near us, so we joined a local LCMS church. We are very happy here. Could you do a video about the differences between the LCMS and NALC? That would be great. Thanks.

[@Saints0611]

The main differences will be the issues of pulpit/altar fellowship, and women’s ordination.

[@RevancedBurner]

He has a video from a few years back that outlines the differences between different Lutheran denominations. It goes through the differences between NALC and LCMS there

[@davidneil6206]

Main difference is probably women's ordination, and LCMS is stricter on who they share communion with.

[@momdad5368]

This was a very good presentation of the NALC. I have attended both the NALC and LCMS. There are some differences in the worship. One is in the Apostles Creed. One says the catholic church and one says the Christian church. I am comfortable in both.

[@BirdDogey1]

I’ve seen both used in the LCMS. We used to say “a light unto the gentiles and your people….nations has replaced gentiles in the LSB. We also used to use Holy Ghost.

[@RevancedBurner]

@@momdad5368the reason for this is because the LCMS is German in origin. Before the reformation, when the creed was translated into German, there was no equivalent word to "Catholic" so the church translated it as "Christian". When Lutherans came to America, they translated the creed from German to English keeping the substituted word. When American Lutherans say the creed, they are using an English translation of a German translation of a Latin translation of a Greek creed. LCMS Lutherans do not reject the idea of catholicity

[@momdad5368]

@@RevancedBurner That is very interesting, thank you.

[@RevancedBurner]

@@momdad5368 you are welcome!

[@MikeV8652]

As a conservative evangelical protestant, whenever I meet a Lutheran or a Methodist, I always want to find out which kind of Lutheran or Methodist he or she is. When I see a Lutheran or a Methodist church, I always look for fine print on its sign to tell me which kind it is. We have come to the point where the kinds tell us more than the traditional labels. Some would call this unfortunate, but it has become necessary (Romans 16 : 17).

[@claryp1509]

I feel the same way about Pentecostals. I’ve been scarred by so much of their false doctrine that I avoid their churches altogether. I also avoid liberal churches.

[@astutik8909]

@@MikeV8652 its probably better just ask individuals what they themselves believe. I know most roman catholics dont believe half what theyre supposed to. And the same could be said of any denomination.

[@ianpardue2615]

You should do a video on the Apostolic Lutheran Church of America

[@BirdDogey1]

I would love that.

[@rmb10]

That NALC picture is from the church where one of my friends is the music director!

[@jec1ny]

I don't understand how a church that opposes homosexual marriage and relations both on biblical grounds and as a doctrinal innovation, can simultaneously be comfortable with female ordination.

[@georgebernard5783]

This position is typical of splinter groups who break away from mainline denominations over same sex marriage. Women have been ordained in mainline churches for a while so most of the churches who disapprove of that left those denominations a lot earlier.

[@GizkaStew]

Because female ordination has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. Hope this helps

[@unit2394]

Yep

[@dustinhellstern7728]

I Sure DO. Makes perfect sense, to me. The Apostle Paul was actually (in NO way) saying Women shouldn’t be allowed to Teach &/or Preach- “FOR THE REMAINDER OF TIME.” There’s actually Not a true implication of that specification. Original Greek doesn’t even hint at a *Permanent* basis for Any Doctrine like that. In other words, there’s ZERO Biblical basis if you read it, carefully.

[@dustinhellstern7728]

@@GizkaStewit does help. You made it very clear- Female Ordination Has NOTHING to do with Homosexuality. Very simple & easy to agree with, matter of Fact.

[@iron_vicuna6784]

While im not a fan of WO, its quite uplifting to hear they have some form of episcopate and also talk with the acna. My greatest hope is that the lutherans and Anglicans can join into one group

[@KingoftheJuice18]

As a non-Christian, I must say: that one church really knows how to evangelize....Comfort Dog!

[@BirdDogey1]

Our local NCLA church in Boerne, TX withdrew from the ELCA. I'm LCMS and we do talk of sin and hell.

[@mpfromdaov]

In other words, you have chosen to make gay sex the foundation of your faith.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I get very suspicious of churches that focus on fear-based messaging.

[@bonniemoerdyk9809]

That's good! After all, Jesus spoke of sin OFTEN, more often than He spoke of Heaven!! That broke my heart when he spoke what the NCLA say in their statement of faith, how they don't speak of sin or hell because it's too depressing. I have Loved Ones in the ELCA and have visited their church with them many times over the last 45 years. NOT 1 TIME have they ever spoken of sin! ... not even once!! They think they are automatically going to heaven because they "belong to God" and were baptized as a baby.... all while they get drunk several nites a week, and gamble, and cheat, and swear like there's no end of life .... or Judgement of God! These Pastors/Elders have a LOT to answer for one day! 😢📖

[@craigbenz4835]

I'm not sure what's different, but I had to play this one at .75 speed.

[@bonniemoerdyk9809]

I occsly. have to do that too! I think it has something to do with all the initials such as LCMS, ELCA, NALC ... your brain is busy making the connections to the words they stand for. 😇

[@unit2394]

Great video as always. Would you consider doing a video on the Southern Methodist Church and Association of Independent Methodist Churches?

[@kingarth0r]

The NACL is the salt of the earth!

[@NubulusAugustus]

I hope to join this denomination when I live close to an NALC church

[@thomasmahoney6567]

Thanks for the presentation. You might consider examining the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America

[@ReadyToHarvest]

You are welcome! Here is my video on the CPC, and CPCA is mentioned also: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4Xbh5l8haZ0fpIsi=tpjImVjlOIbPGWac

[@daveh893]

Very thorough description. Thank you. It seems that the NALC is closer to the Roman Catholic Church than the ELCA and I wonder how it distinguishes itself from Catholicism.

[@davidneil6206]

We disagree on the supremacy of the Pope

[@astutik8909]

​@@davidneil6206for now.

[@astutik8909]

@@davidneil6206 for now. Funny how my comments keep disappearing.

[@jatar6605]

There are a lot of differences between confessional Lutherans and Catholics that may not be entirely visible to the naked eye. Those include, but are not limited to, a different understanding of salvation (imputed vs infused righteousness), the Eucharist (sacramental union vs transubstantiation), confession (“I forgive you” vs “I absolve you”, and who can do it), Holy Orders (potential for women’s ordination in some Lutheran groups + apostolic succession without a necessity of an episcopacy vs must have episcopacy for valid orders), and ecumenism (catholic vs Catholic)

[@astutik8909]

@@davidneil6206 For now. But for how long? Second time this comment has disappeared. Is that you?

[@danielrepp4426]

Thanks for this

[@georgebernard5783]

Even though the NALC has fewer churches than the LCMS, WELS, or LCMC, there seem to be more NALC churches where I live (the Carolinas) than any of the previous three. A couple of my friends attend churches that left for the NALC though they still disagree with their home church's decision to leave the ELCA.

[@sportypoamerykansku8004]

To be honest, that sounds similar to the position of Polish Lutheran Church. Although it slowly goes into the direction of Church of Sweden (they cooperate).

[@weirdoWillis]

Baptism without faith doesn't save, but an infant can be baptized and be saved because of the faith of his parents? While I agree with most of Lutheranism, this is one area that I have done my best to wrap my head around unsuccessfully. It seems to me most Lutheran pastors I've seen try to explain it falter in their confidence of it or at least ability to explain it. Such verses as "and they and their households were baptized" seems to me a weak argument for an entire doctrinal stance. Perhaps a Lutheran out there can better help me understand. I'm not trying to be belligerently ignorant, I would love to understand the position better than what I've heard so far which has been from quite a few influential Lutheran leaders.

[@RevancedBurner]

The child, like all is saved on account of their own faith but not because of their faith. Christ's death and resurrection ultimately is what saves, not faith, not baptism. Faith and baptism are the modes in which the salvation is delivered unto us. Here is an analogy, imagine one is drowning and a man throws a life preserver to the drowning person. The person grabs hold and is brought to shore. Did the man save the person, did the life preserver save the person or did the grabbing hold save them? In a way, you could say any of those saved the drowning person. In this analogy, the man is Christ, the life preserver is baptism, and faith is what clings to it. The question then is, "can an infant have faith?" Luckily, scripture is clear. "Unless one becomes like a little child". Children--especially infants have nothing but faith. They have faith in their parents to feed them and change them and take care of them. It would be wrong to assume they couldn't also have faith in their heavenly Father to provide for them

[@astutik8909]

Belief in the gospel is prerequisite to baptism. ​@@RevancedBurner

[@RevancedBurner]

@astutik8909 and you think infants can't believe?

[@astutik8909]

@RevancedBurner Is that what happens at a baby/ infant baptism? Were they asked what they believe?

[@BirdDogey1]

John leapt for joy in his mother's womb.

[@stephanottawa7890]

Thanks for this segment. I might have joined the NALC, but it did not exist when I left or was made to feel so unwelcome in the ELCIC that I had to leave. Eventually I found the Orthodox Church. It is the true Church that Jesus Christ established here on this earth and I thank God every day that I found it despite all the pain I suffered at the hands of the liberal Lutherans. They were not all mean, but as time past, the few good people died out and all is left is almost empty buildings where a few people meet to hear a false gospel or better said, no gospel at all. I feel particularly sorry for the older people who sacrificed so much to build these churches. They would be very sad to hear the garbage that is proclaimed in most of the ELCIC and ELCA churches today. If there are still a few good Christians there, leave before it is too late as it will only get worse. Come to Jesus in the Orthodox Church.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

Why didn't they just join the Missoui Synod or the Wisconsin Synod or ELDONA?

[@RevancedBurner]

@@brucealanwilson4121 ELDONA barely exists. It is a tiny group. Larger confessional groups not mentioned would be the CLC (church of the Lutheran confessions) or ELS (Evangelical Lutheran Synod)

[@leullakew9579]

I really wish Pew and the media can differentiate between Evangelical (both Missional/Revivalist/Evangelical-Proper and Confessional Evangelicals), Mainline, Confessional, Confessing Movement, and the fringe/other/nonTrinitarian churches although there is an overlap between most of these groups. For example the ACNA and the GMC are Confessing Movement with Evangelical minorities; the NALC and LCMC, are Confessing Movement with a very influential Missional/Revivalist Evangelical substrat, at least relative to most other Lutherans and identifies as Confessional Lutherans using the “in so far as” view as opposed to other Confessional Lutherans of the “is means is” persuasion); LCMS is Confessional (Confessional Lutheran of the “is means is” persuasion), etc., etc. I also wish Pew can remove the Jehovah’s Witnesses and LDS/Mormons from the Evangelical category because that categorization is grossly inaccurate.

[@jasonkiefer1894]

Women's ordination is the main sticking point. There are always some subtlies on the Bible and Lutheran Confessions (particularly the importance of the others after the Augsburg Confession). Both have been in dialogue for a handful of years, and do find support and agreement on other issues.

[@stephanottawa7890]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1581">26:21</a> Sounds like the spiteful people in the ELCIC and ELCA made sure the the NALC would not be welcome in the WLF. They can be so uncharitable when it comes to welcoming other people in Christ despite their rhetoric.

[@stephanottawa7890]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="968">16:08</a> What are these people trying to say? Are they saying that women who have raped, can seek an abortion? Please be honest and clear.

[@RevancedBurner]

I think it is more clear If you start at 15:49. I think it is saying that people who engage in premarital sex should confess their sins but also making it clear that victims of SA are not guilty of that sin themselves. I agree the wording could use some editing

[@jasonharris2291]

NALC is the premise that you can slide all the way to female ordination without continuing down the garbage chute.

[@davidneil6206]

I am a seminarian in this Church! Thanks for featuring us.

[@stephanottawa7890]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1278">21:18</a> I hope that they got rid of the horrid translation that Lutherans copied from RCs in the post Vat II period: The Lord be with you - And with you too, baby or something like that.

[@jatar6605]

🤣 unfortunately it seems like most high-church Protestant groups still use “and also with you” even after the RCC went back to “and with your spirit.” It’s quite frustrating to watch; “and also with you” just isn’t a faithful translation in any way

[@stephanottawa7890]

@@jatar6605 Thanks. That must be the quickest response that I have ever had. If I had a prize, I would send it to you. By the way, I agree. Thanks again.

[@jatar6605]

@@stephanottawa7890 haha thank you I appreciate that. Btw, just curious, I see that you’re Orthodox. Are you OCA? I ask b/c I’ve been attending Liturgy lately and I often hear “and to your/thy spirit” alongside “and with your/thy spirit.” Do you know why that is?

[@stephanottawa7890]

@@jatar6605 I was originally in the OCA, but the church moved and at that point I decided go to ROCOR. I think that in the OCA there is a rivalry between the more "liberal" seminary called St. Vladimir's and the more conservative one attached to St. Tiikhon's Monastery. The former promotes a more modern type liturgical use and language whereas the later is closer to the ROCOR in language and attitude. It does lead to some confusion if a church is using publications from both presses. In the church to which I belonged, sometimes we seemed to be using a more modern translation of things from St. Vladimir's and sometimes we were using a more traditional one from St. Tikhon's. I could be wrong, but I think that it stems from these two traditions. The Bible readings also were sometimes a bit odd-sounding because they took the readings from the RSV which used the concept that when we are talking to God, we use "thou", "thy" etc, but when God is speaking to Moses or to us, He uses "you" and "your". This was then extended to the Theotokos and the saints so that some translations said "It is truly meet to bless you" and others said "It is truly meet to bless thee." It was a bit confusing. Now that I am in ROCOR, we use only the more traditional language for English or we just use Slavonic (which I am still learning). I hope this helps.

[@niccage6375]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1205">20:05</a> i want to go to that church

[@theodorejohnson3459]

A coalition of those who are totally removed from the faith once delivered to the saved

[@figmasternutter6364]

As a mainliner I think it’s funny how conservatives will break off from the mainline over this or that issue and create a bunch of small denominations over smaller and smaller issues.

[@Sebman1113]

yeah, my home ELCA church really is not that different from an NALC church, it was a largely pointless split in my opinion.

[@astutik8909]

Everyone needs to draw a line somewhere. Gravity will take its toll if you go with the flow.

[@craigbenz4835]

The NALC has an internal contradiction. At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="156">2:36</a> it claims to follow "the treatise", in context presumably Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope, while at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1414">23:34</a> honoring him.

[@dustinhellstern7728]

You’re correct, that is Presumptuous. You know, the thing you’re basing your whole argument on..? (I’m actually AG!) but I honor the Pope, too. But Never have & Never WiLL “Submit” to him under Any Circumstance.

[@davidneil6206]

You can honour Benedict for his contributions to the Church, without submitting to his supposed authority.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

@@davidneil6206 Benedict hasn’t been pope for years now.

[@captaincatho]

I’m an ELCA member. Proud

[@Sebman1113]

Same. Honestly, I don't think a split was necessary being a large portion of ELCA churches are not much different from the NALC. Some are but it probably is not much different from my church every Sunday.

[@PhilipMarcYT]

All these Christian denominations, Yeshua, it's just unnecessarily excessive. Heck, who's to say Ready to Harvest can't make his own church. 🤣 I was part of a Protestant church and converted to Catholicism, I'm happy where I am now.

[@thetraditionalist]

1st!

[@chudcel99]

cool beans

[@BramptonAnglican]

I enjoy the ELCA

[@PhilipMarcYT]

I guess it's better than Anglican, but ultimately both are Protestant.

[@BramptonAnglican]

@@PhilipMarcYTI enjoy both. God bless you though. Have a good day.

[@Sebman1113]

I do too as an active member.

[@KingoftheJuice18]

Why would anyone want "the humanity" of Jesus to be present in the communion meal? Why isn't that kind of cannibalistic?

[@RevancedBurner]

Because body and blood are things according to Christ's humanity. Before the incarnation He did not have them. The Father nor the Spirit have body or blood.

[@KingoftheJuice18]

@@RevancedBurner Ok, thank you, but doesn't that still mean you are eating a human being?

[@RevancedBurner]

@@KingoftheJuice18 it a mystical way, you could argue it. Most scholarly Lutherans would say Christ is present locally but not physically in the communion meal. That is, it can be pointed to in space, but does not displace other things. Therefore we can say that it is both bread and body. An instance where you can see a similar mode of presence is the demon possessed in the New Testament. The demons are locally present in the body of the possessed, but it does not take up space or displace the person who is also in the exact same location. So is it cannibalistic? It depends on how you define cannibalism and its relation to the physical. When eating the Eucharist, is the bread simply crushed by the teeth, or is Christ also crushed? Lutherans would say only the bread is crushed but Christ is truly there with the bread.

[@KnoxEmDown]

This is why pagans accused early Christians of cannibalism, lol.

[@BirdDogey1]

The hypostatic union of Christ. You can't have the divine w/o the human.

[@BramptonAnglican]

Lol poor things had to band together with the ACNA two pretenders one to the Lutheran faith the other to the Anglican faith.

[@RevancedBurner]

Pretenders? The NALC holds closer to the historic confessions of Lutheranism than the ELCA which it split off of. Likewise, the ANCA holds closer to the 39 articles than TEC

[@ericbrown3247]

I'm a bit confused. My understanding is that you present a balanced representation of various denominations. My experience watching your videos is that the language you use is anything but balanced. Fir instance using yhe term "liberal theoligy" regarding the ELCA. The theology is the theology the theology drives them towards progressivw/liberal stances on human rights issue, but the theology, firmly grounded in the confessions of the Church is simply this "the forgiveness of sins through Jesys Christ." The Church accepts the three creeds, the Augsburg confessions, and Luther's Catechism as the symbols if the church. An argument can be made that thw NALC is more liberal as it has added confessions and documents that are not part of the Historic Church or even the Historic Evangelucal understanding of The Church. Its conversation of the smalcald article is an example of adding adiaphora to what it means to be Evangelical.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

There is nothing not neutral about describing the theology of the denominations I am covering. Theological Liberalism and Theological conservativism are well defined categories and neither are perjorative. There are denominations that are more liberal, more moderate, and more conservative. The only way mentioning this would be viewed as biased is if the viewer imports negative meaning to these terms that is not present in their academic meaning. See www.britannica.com/topic/theological-liberalism and the short overview at www.thearda.com/us-religion/group-profiles/traditions?T=2 to learn more.

[@stevebrown8368]

It’s all about the homophobia