Real Rider Test Rides Pinion MGU Gearbox Motor | EMBN Show 334

[@embn]

What are your thoughts on chainstay length and adjustment on bikes. Is it something you look for, or is it something that confuses you?

[@Emtbtoday]

Suspension sag and settings are more than enough for me to muck around with getting right! Keep your flip chips used to think it would be a pretty cool thing to have but now after getting a new emtb first one I got a cube 2024 action team manual machine it's short chain stay reviews say but it climbs no bother for me!

[@Rubblechops]

Much like trousers. Short, regular and long versions of the same waist size🚲

[@AK-ContentCreatIon]

FLIP CHIPS AND THIS ANGLE CHANGE STUFF IN THE STEERING TUBE! THE MORE THE BETTER. The new flip chips for instance of the orbea, that can be change within minutes...thats really great... I like short chainstays... If its steep. I change my mX setup into a 27.5 front and back this also keeps the bike from wheeling

[@thecyclesaint]

Agree with Steve. Designers should have faith in there designs. Less is more.

[@OriginalTrev]

I would like more adjustments please... What I'm hearing from you is, "I don't want to bother with trying anything that takes me out of my comfort zone." A bicycle keeps you off the sofa, bike trails keeps you out of traffic, hills and dales gives you respect for gravity, pain is just expanding your zone of comfort.

[@damo010]

Pinion gear boxes have been used for years by world tourers and bikepackers so its already well tested and proven to be mega reliable. It is the future way to go.

[@MrMartinSchou]

It's the same for most internal gear boxes. Reduced maintenance requirements in exchange for a tiny bit of efficiency. You can measure the efficiency loss, but I would argue that unless you're at a professional level, you're not going to notice the efficiency loss. And it's an efficiency loss that might not matter once you get into a dirty environment where grit and grime starts getting into the gears.

[@dougie336]

I wouldn't say that, it has been used by some but there are notable drawbacks and it's not been adopted by many bike packers

[@IvayloIvanov-z8r]

I have an analog gearbox trail bike with the Pinion P1.12. It is so robust it feels like a motorcycle. Smooth, reliable, stays efficient at high power outputs and at the worst riding conditions. The MGU was only the next logical step and the market will surely become more diverse. Cheers!

[@greycup5748]

I have a Turbo Levo and a Ransom 920 E-ride and I'm waiting until I can get an MGU bike. A big travel enduro style MGU emtb will be my next bike!!! They are the future and I can't wait!!!!

[@Emtbtoday]

Watching on my phone from Normandy tonight what a day it's been sights were unbelievable! "Least we forget"

[@somerandomperson8282]

"Lest", not least.

[@Magoo71]

Hey Fellas.....You finally got my bike up there....Not bad for you guys.....Thanks for the Super Nice! I will now send in a Picture of Lake Tahoe but the trail where I was at was too narrow to get my Bike in the photo!......Thanks for posting my eBike! Also thanks for the "super nice" Owen!!!

[@andyburgess3767]

I can’t wait to see the MGU being taken up and being more readily available.

[@1970madre]

My test ride with the Nicolai is confirmed for 19 June. I'm sure I'll soon have one in the cellar if it convinces me like this :) In Germany Nicolai offers to come to your home with the bike you want to test and you can test the bike on your home trails. Best service !

[@frankm9334]

wish i could get them in australia!

[@russellzauner]

Ayyyy it's the bike guy again, hey bike guy! I learned so much in the tuning video - it's all basic stuff, but if you can't get the basics right then the rest is going to be suboptimal. Thanks for the free lessons!

[@manfredstrappen7491]

So funny hearing people considering seeing sheep and cows a highlight of a trip. I can’t drive more than 10 miles from anywhere I’ve ever lived without seeing sheep, cows, horse, emu, llamas, alpacas and even bison and yaks lately. We get interested when it’s deer, elk or antelope. A marmot did just move into my backyard and I’m pretty stoked about that!

[@TheAegisClaw]

Loved high rise bars back in the 90's. As theyre slowly got lower i hadn't really noticed. Might consider some of those.

[@StephenRose-eu1vh]

💯 need more coverage of power stages on your channel. It looks absolutely brutal.

[@danielsimmonds5162]

MGU must be the way forward! How long have we had to put up with derailleurs and all the hassle those "dangly bits" cause?! The answer in the past was always "Its aye bin" ( Scottish for its always been like that) Thank goodness for progress. My only concern Steve and Owen is how well the drive belt will stand up to the mud and crud up here in Scotland and anywhere else in the UK for that matter. The width of the belt could easily carry stones along it like a "conveyor belt" and the crunch into the chairing, rear sprocket. I'd like to hear any thoughts on it?? Cheers for a great channel stick in and keep it coming Desperate Dan

[@bruce.KAY-bike-drifter]

Nice to see Hans Rey... what a legend

[@BaldBloke]

Love how the highlight of the 'hub motor ebike' ride was 'nice scenery, birds, sheep etc'. 🤣

[@plokmko0]

That Marin/Bosch motor is huge !

[@robertbransby]

Looks terrible

[@Emtbtoday]

Yeah like they have gone backwards to the Gen 2/3 frame but they did say they took an existing bike and added the Gen 4 so probably why! Absolutely horrid looking though eh!

[@iross7345]

Rather than spending on a new "cheap" low spec bike, my first EMTB was a lightly used 2019 Focus Jam2 with the E8000 motor. I was able to use the bike in the conditions I wanted to ride and test the capability of a full sus bike. 12 months on I have read and watched reviews, shopped around and bought... a 2023 Jam2 with the latest Bosch. No flip chips but it does have adjustable head angle - maybe I will swap it round to test the effect some day. The other half is now enjoying the 2019 bike so everyone's a winner.

[@frankm9334]

@embn there are 2 current ( that i am aware of , could be more ) DH bikes with the pinion gearboxes Gamut and Zerode , in fact zerdoe g3 was in both hardline in tasmania and australia!

[@lostintransit5822]

My levo is adjustable but I haven’t got a clue what it all means and does so I just ride it

[@mancubofthenorth4554]

Im waiting for pinion motors to become the norm before buying a new bike.

[@thealchemist794]

I’ve been looking at the Pinion on other bikes as it appears quite beneficial. I bought a Turbo Levo back in 2022 & tbh paying just shy of £5000 is a lot of money. My point is to go for this new tech you are in the £7000 & above bracket which will be out of reach for many. It’s no wonder the bike industry is in trouble as the prices atm are madness. The Nicolai Saturn is 10.999€. Mental.

[@thelocalangler]

Owen + Blake + Neil + Rich = e bike camping adventure for adventure week.

[@AL-sd5cs]

I’ve been following it and we techy bikers always talk about the ultimate system..the Saturn looks like it’s built like a tank..can anyone comment on the weight of it or the other bikes with the MGU..and also why not use the 9speed MGU for the enduro bikes?

[@Blowfeld20k]

I just had my 58th birthday, still riding (been riding since the 80's), actually just building an old Azonic Evolution up for some HT fun, retire my old Jack flash for something diff this summer, also building a Lapierre Zesty 414 (the addiction never ends). Anyway wanted to say the closer I get to 60 the more interested I am in E=bikes (LMFAO)........ I'll do whatever it takes to stay on bikes, am not proud, or fast (wink).

[@vitorluis_freerider]

Two Zerode DH bikes at Red Bull Hardline.

[@AmvC]

5:10 Geisskopf in Bischofsmais - eastern bavaria, in the southeast of germany. Just a stone's throw from the czech republic 💯

[@BelviGER]

Only ridden the pinion mgu on a roadbike, top gear was geared a bit short for my taste but ive never ridden a better shifting bike

[@markusilomaki8922]

If I will ever put any money down on an emtb it better have a motor with a gearbox!

[@TeeSCee]

Hey guys. Great show as always. I reasontly bought an acustic trail bike and swapped it's stock (heavy) magic marry's to some suuuper light vittoria mezcal / barsos and for the first time realized how big a difference a light tyre makes. I started wondering, how much more range can you get on an emtb if you swap for some super loght tyres... Or do you run in to too many puncturea because of the heavier bike? Maybe you guys could do an experiment on this.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Howdy, Ooo - thats a great question - watch this space! Cheers Owen

[@hairyhomerify]

My only issue with the bikes you and Owen enjoyed in video was there not available in uk

[@mixalis6168]

I want the Nicolai !!!

[@Petrolhead912]

Please explain why the high rise bars on the motera you showed were fitted under all the stérer tube spacers ? I can’t get my head around it

[@Emtbtoday]

Velectic bike's forks have been an issue. They took the damaged ones back from people on other reviews to see what the issue is. They are collapsing for some people riding small mountain trails like this. It says "all mountain" on the forks, but they are collapsing. Be careful. One guy have to cable tie his up and add lock out on his to keep them up! They should really come with RS 35 or something than that preload rubbish

[@RoryPowell-e8n]

How easy would it be to change my vitus e-escarpe with the ep6 motor into auto shift and the cost 🤔

[@bostondye3736]

I really enjoy Owen's personality, and he has good insight. Sub optimization is a huge selling point these days. I greatly appreciate multiple geometry adjustment options. That's why I ride a stumpjumper evo. 👍 cheers

[@OwenBikeNerd]

Thanks for the feedback - and glad your with me on the advantages of flip chips! Cheers Owen

[@thim8009]

Speaking of highrise bars, I got laughed at so many times for using my diety 80mm rise. Funny to see how people are opening up to them. Ive been riding emtbs long enough that i was the only one at the trail head with one. 75 % of the people would give me dirty looks. I was ahead of my time i guess.

[@mitch_smith]

torso = large, legs = medium. I love adjustments on frame.

[@andyarchitect]

How about a remote flip chip leaver? 😂 for some folk it might actually be a good idea!

[@vashon100]

lever vs leaver , but interesting idea.

[@hughjanus7354]

@@vashon100 I think Andy wants his chips to leave remotely.

[@Emtbtoday]

Pinon motor is noisy through 1,2,3,4 and clicks through 5 that would get annoying! Need chuck bit saw dust in there lol gonna wait for bosch hub one seems really interesting

[@vashon100]

But yet he says sooooo quiet LOL

[@stuartrathbone5403]

Regarding the MGB debate, as an ex engineer, ex crosser and a confessed MGB fanboy I'm sure that if the R & D departments of Husky, Yamaha, KTM, Suzuki, Maico, Honda, CCM, Kawasaki etc etc had discovered that either derailleur gears, hub gears, hub drive gearboxes or any combination of them gave them the edge in either racing or product sales we would have seen them long ago on powered off and on bikes. Wake up and smell the coffee boys, I’m sure Shimano, Bosch etc etc have. 😀

[@ianfurqueron5850]

I just bought a new e-bike, but the Nicolai definitely has me in distracted meme territory... maybe in a couple of years.

[@thoughtsofmoog]

Flip Chip? Bit of a gimmick to me, I just don’t feel 5mm extra height on the BB or 8mm more on the chainstay

[@OwenBikeNerd]

They can be usefully - of course its subjective and personal - I feel you might be surprised about how much difference a few mm here and there can make - it can really change a bike for the better! Cheers for the feedback Owen

[@robhaskins3068]

I'm spending my money on a totally proven manual change Rohloff hub and fitting it to my 2018 carbon levo with a upgraded 1.3 aluminium case brose motor. It's the smoothest, Quietest ,powerful and most natural motor ever and very reliable with the ebike motor centre Australia upgrades. Fitted 170mm Fox 38's , mullet with big tyres and I all works great for me. You can pay a lot of money to be a test pilot for a noisy,clunky motor gearbox bike. E=Mtb²

[@frankm9334]

so adding more weight and unsprung mass the rear wheel! will do wonders for the handling!

[@robhaskins3068]

@@frankm9334 I've had a Rohloff hub on another Emtb for 4years. The difference in the handling and jumping feeling is not noticeable. Cyclists are hard wired to think lighter is better that's why I say if you want to go Cycling ride a 7kg road bike but if you want to have maximum Fun ride a full power Emtb hard and fast .If the weight is low it doesn't matter to me. That's why a prefer to use 2x 500wh batteries over a 700wh. At 63kg (nearly back to my birth weight ) I prefer a heavier bike to push me through downhill rock gardens .E=Mtb²

[@robhaskins3068]

@@frankm9334I've had a Rohloff hub on another Emtb for 4years and doesn't feel any different to my cassette/derailleur Emtbs but simply works ,feels and lasts so much better. A friend has over 200 KOM's on strava with a Rohloff so the handling is not a issue. Low centre of gravity weight on a Emtb is a good thing on a full power Emtb and silence is golden. E=Mtb²

[@frankm9334]

@@robhaskins3068 ohh no straa KOM's the metric will al use to judge how good something is.. yes of course the Roholf hub and cassette bike feel the same, its unsprung mass on the rear wheel, which is bad for handling, which gbox bikes just dont have im faster according to strava same day back to back both my bikes( your metric not mine on a 27.5 5yo zerode gbox bike than a modern transition sentinel with 29 better suspension and brakes! numbers say thats not possible, BUT reality is the zerode handles better

[@robhaskins3068]

@@frankm9334 The point I was making that the unsprung weight of Rohloff hub is not a reason to ignore the advantages. Personally the coffee grinder sound of that particular MGU would kill the joy of the ride.Silence is golden for me. As you know handling is a touchy-feely sensation that is different for everyone. When I ride different Emtbs with varying,head angle,wheelbase weights,wheel combinations, suspension brands, travel /settings ,crank lengths and many more variables they all feel different but unless something is drastically wrong I seem to adapt to their handling characteristics fairly quickly and simply enjoy the The magic of Emtbs. They turn us into gleeful kids again and broaden our ability to explore terrain multiplying the joy of one of mans greatest gravity cheating inventions the bicycle. They are a Time Machine. I don't do strava myself as it is a good enabler of crashing. E=Mtb²

[@chris-sallydehoon152]

@chris-sallydehoon152 Can you do a show between the difference in bikes for E-EDR and E-XC ... like for example the lapierre overvolt glp set up of jerome gilloux for E-XC and the set up for maxiavalanche or the trek rail for E-XC and E-EDR

[@DaBinChe]

Love the MGU but want more POE

[@Emtbtoday]

Should have shown remy metailler's massive Mistake crash the other day sore one!

[@spencerwvcmoon]

Brilliant bike , thanks men very info packed show ! Nikolai fan and mgu wannabee. Power stages look mean looks great spectator sport action !

[@michaelcuddihee6754]

More Johnny

[@markgriffiths409]

You’re in Wales boys, could you not also do the costs in ££££££ ??..

[@hughjanus7354]

PLEASE can you go on the record and clarify - is that a hairpiece or not.

[@OwenBikeNerd]

I can confirm on the record - it is not a hairpiece - its my own home grown doo Cheers Owen

[@hughjanus7354]

@@OwenBikeNerd that's impressive, many a Middle Eastern fellas must be jealous AF. In case you get bored of cycling (which I don't think you should, but in case you do there's an alternative) you could move to London and get into the roadman/drill game.

[@toddpuss6125]

How long until that belt tensioner gets destroyed on a hard landing or scrubbing over rocks?

[@simony2801]

Never

[@Emtbtoday]

Marin made a bad move there, it seems, using a previous Gen 2/3 motor frame like the old Specialized with the massive, afterthought motor mounts. It's not like the 2023 eMTB, where it's nicely molded into the frame, and you can't see that massive bulge like the Levo comp 2022 same thing there that huge motor casing! Always spoilt the looks of ebikes for me think thats why finally got a 2024 model emtb got a nice flush bosch motor casings now!

[@philhicks5818]

Why do you have to give the bike prices in US dollars , 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@sd5458]

Paid by Velo at this point guys. It's a great bike, not the only bike.

[@plainuser48596]

putting gear hub in back wheel is not a revolution, it is not even evolution. Gears belong in bottom bracket area not rear wheel

[@AmvC]

i would NEVER buy a gearbox-bike! NEVER !!!!

[@AmvC]

jk of course i would i'm not stupid 😂 as much as i like cleaning chains and replacing cassettes - i like riding more.

[@simony2801]

Everyone else will, no loss.

[@markgriffiths409]

That must be a wig, surely…

[@joehoeper4648]

Stop calling regular MTBs "acoustic" - it doesn't make sense and sounds stupid. It's so simple - eMTBs and MTBs.

[@somerandomperson8282]

Whether you think its stupid or not is irrelevant... its a common term used internet-wide and within the MTB community.

[@hughjanus7354]

@@somerandomperson8282 can you explain why you're happy to use a term that doesn't make sense (it's totally stupid in fact), just because everyone uses it? Have you heard about "common sense", "logic" or "intelligence"?

[@bongobob7079]

@@hughjanus7354 Sheeple who don't question stupidity usually dont use "common sense", "logic" or "intelligence". I am with you on this and none of my friends use "Acoustic" either.

[@asifitmatters1]

„It’s capable of getting out there“… that’s applicable to every single bike out there, even those that cost $150. The totally meaningless crap that comes out of this channel is mind bending!

[@markdove5930]

My grandma had the same haircut as the guy on the left. I claime cultural appropriation. Get your own style

[@kevinmortimer1883]

97% efficient chain drives are. belts are not anything like that efficient and are basically crap

[@eaze7324]

Chains are only that efficient when totally clean, oiled and if the input power is below 250W, after that a belt is more efficient and it works better with dirt, doesn't need oil, there are enough stats / graphs to that and with an E-Bike you are easily above 250W. I think you mistaken chain cassette drive vs rear hub drive often driven with a belt that are not really efficient.

[@hughjanus7354]

I'd rather lose a couple of %points on efficiency and save time on not having to maintain the drivetrain every other ride (not to mention cost of replacement parts), thank you.

[@bongobob7079]

Kevin you have no idea wtf you are on about.

[@OriginalTrev]

Gates is constantly refining their belt-drive systems for a solution to "conveyor belt" action... grit and small stones being crushed between the belt and rear cog that cause premature wear.

[@OriginalTrev]

@@eaze7324 only the unevolved still use oil-based chain lubes that pull grit into the pins and rollers that acts as a grinding paste to wear down the chain prematurely... ZeroFrictionCycling