Realism Doesn't Matter (But It Isn't Useless)

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Realism is a buzzword that gets thrown around in FPS spaces, especially around games like Call of Duty and Escape From Tarkov. Are these games "realistic?" And do they need to be?
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[@TheButterAnvil]

I was wrong about the grenade thing. Multiple people pointed it out, the TM has a chart for which grenades you can cook, and the m67 can be cooked for 2 seconds, so my bad. Multiple people have also said Russian grenade fuses are untrustworthy, but I haven't verified that. Thanks for watching

[@TheButterAnvil]

Also I got the colt python comment too. The original script said desert eagle, I should have stuck with that

[@internetrules8522]

homie put the erratum in a pinned comment. very nice!

[@weiwu1442]

i’m surprised Nikita got hung up on that grenade thing when for a long time Tarkov recoil was quite literally more severe than real life recoil

[@bageljosher]

He takes the weirdest things personally I fee like

[@icarusgaming6269]

So is Squad's. Maybe it's like that for a reason

[@DigitalShaolin]

@@icarusgaming6269because the most vocal milsimmers are the people who don’t have the motor skill to hit a stationary target with a baseball bat from 2 feet away so they want everybody else’s functioning fine motor control to be nerfed artificially so that everybody is forced to be equally as bad as them

[@icarusgaming6269]

@@DigitalShaolin Disrespectful, but better

[@The4j1123]

@@DigitalShaolinI don't have bad aim, I don't have great aim, but I support the ICO in Squad because if I want to get out-aimed, I play Halo or Battlefield or Insurgency or CoD. If I want an authentic military shooter where I have to be OUTSMARTED and OUTGUNNED, I play Squad or Tarkov or Arma. I didn't like Squad being about better aim because it contrasted with the detail of the core gameplay. It just felt cheap.

[@Lynx3105]

1. Do you want to feel like a soldier making decisions(having fun) or 2. do you want to read a 200-page manual to learn how to fly, use laser-guided bombs, fly formation, use the radio, etc.?(DCS) Yeah, afterwards, I also wonder why I picked 2; this stuff is painful

[@SwanADolphin]

Me reading the 88 page how to guide on the new plane in vtol vr

[@nobodymissesphilofthefutur8237]

Surprisingly enough, some people draw more from the accomplishment of learning how to use their aircraft then what the aircraft is actually doing. There is nothing wrong with that. That being said, a game/sim needs to set the expectation of how far in one axis they intend to go. They don’t need to always be fully towards one end, but they should always communicate it so they can work off community responses.

[@thecowgod2575]

@@SwanADolphin *89 page thank you very much. Let's not try to make this game seem like a joke.

[@uuuuuu8373]

Both. I say both.

[@Jabzzo]

DCS is very fun, and lets make it clear there more around 500-page manuals and I also wonder why I've spent so much time reading them. still love the experience though, it's very rewarding.

[@WarcrimeDragon]

I miss the days where we saw something very unrealistic, in a very fun game, and we just called it "game logic". We just called it a day and kept having fun, or played a different game.

[@mookmeels2]

very sincere shame how we aren't able to enjoy games for what they are, instead of what we want them to be.

[@GloriG_C17]

Its all changed when we lick "Realism" Game for the first time, as the Graphics increased we saw things realistic and make us want realism more.

[@grzyb11]

@@GloriG_C17bro its not about graphics?

[@jayhollows5729]

People are too easily led by divisive culture war nonsense and everything has to be a point of division in some way including videogames. So much they lose their minds when they see a black man in a ww2 game and cry "muh realism". I wish people were more live and let live rather than thinking everything is a battle they have to fight

[@vincentque1238]

did you, watch the video?

[@AliceDerg]

The "don't cook a grenade" comes with an asterisk: You are told, when employing a grenade into something like a bunker, to actually cook the grenade for about a second before tossing it in to give the defenders less time to react to it. Otherwise NO! Edit: videogames tend to not give their grenades random fuses. If your grenade had a potential for exploding much sooner than expected, you would not cook it. It would eliminate "timing" your grenade like R6S.

[@HEXW1N2]

Now that you bring this up, it occurred to me that adding random fuses in grenades would not actually be too bad of a idea. If they add cooking back into R6 but then the grenades have slightly different fuse timers even if it is of the same type to simulate the slight inconsistency real life grenades can have, it could have the 'realism' of grenades being able to be cooked along with the 'realism' of the consequence of doing so. It could make a cool risk/reward system, while being 'realistic'

[@triparadox.c]

@@HEXW1N2 There's gonna be people complaining now saying it's just RNG and that takes off the skill. So, they will always complain.

[@memedealermikey]

I’m glad you said that actually. My idea was to make fuses 4-6 seconds long with a random chance of it being 4, 5 or 6. So you can cook it for only couple seconds reliably before being nervous it’ll blow up in your hand. That way it’ll mimic real life grenades that cook for 2 seconds while also making sure people don’t cheese grenades like in r6.

[@ryszakowy]

i believe people mistake cooking a grenade with holding a grenade without pin but with spoon

[@bobman36]

Realisim is that one article by the onion where the next cod mw is about you maintaining humvees for 90% of the game

[@CHMernerner]

and watching the desert for hours

[@krebgurfson5732]

seems like you're actually trying to be dumb, you completely missed the point of what realism means. there are mechanic video games, and they're incredibly unrealistic. it's not the action or duration of the military games that is unrealistic. it's the fact that you can sprint with a heavy machine gun, jump off a building and land shots on someone 3 stories down, land and survive.

[@samuelbliss1521]

@@krebgurfson5732 good job summarising the video, op was being satirical

[@redline841]

Knowing gamers today, it would have a nice niche audience and become a fotm game

[@lolasdm6959]

And getting called by your wife for a divorce, also cleaning the bathroom

[@runforitman]

5:25 I think a big thing with "realistic" controls like that games gunplay is that a keyboard already isn't realistic you don't have to remember 62 buttons to operate a gun IRL you just move so I think "realistic" controls and gunplay can only really exist in hand tracked VR where you actually can use everything just by interacting with it

[@kane357lynch]

It's also not perfectly stable.

[@Lunageldia]

And from all my experiences in VR, the game with the most realistic gunplay... is also the one where you shoot giant talking hot dogs.

[@grzyb11]

You dont have to remenber 62 buttons in the games either? They’re optional for attachments

[@yesyes-om1po]

well thats just what comes with making a game.

[@TheButterAnvil]

That's not how I see it. "You just move" because you've remembered the 62 things you need to do. If you hand a person a gun who's never seen one before and tell them to reload it, I bet it feels a lot like playing receiver

[@tiberius8390]

I feel that many people say "realism" when they mean "authenticity". For games or even "simulations" (which on PC are all also a type of game) you cannot have full realism. You want to have some playability with the game. I do like simulation games and I even endorse some mechanics that favor realism over gratification or playability (at least without knowing what you are doing). For example in ArmA3 I played in a unit as a sniper with ACE3 and advanced ballistics and wind and all that. It was quite a challenge not only to learn how to calculate a shot correctly, depending on weather, altitude, rifle, ammunition, gauging wind... also you have to know and master recon tactics, stealth, concealment, movement, knowledge of the equipment, calibration of the equipment (before you go on an OP!), terminal ballistics and proper radio communication.... But back to e.g. shooting: it is a real skill you have to acquire before you hit anything at say 800m plus. You need knowledge of how real world ballistics work and it takes time and training to get that. And for me that is the fun about simulations. You need to read, watch videos, do some training on your own to learn and grow until you can do what you are supposed to do proficiently. In one training with a mate where I was supposed to teach someone how to shoot as a marksman/sniper. I put man-sized targets out at different ranges. We went through how to set up the shot and what setting to use for the scope. As he was failing to hit a target at 1.3 km out I had a look at wind speed and direction and hit on first shot. He was impressed. (I was, too because 1300m with wind is pushing it to hit on the first shot) xD Or doing recon on a public server, staying undetected and radoing enemy movement and positions to your team. When somebody notices what you are doing and he's actually saying "is somebody ACTUALLY doing recon? Nice!". That's the gratification you need. ;) Other example flight sims. Yes I actually want to push every button in that cockpit. I want the whole plane to behave as realistic as possible. I like the flight preparation part where you have to create your flight plan look at the weather, check the plates and procedures, take 30 minutes to start up the plane and program your flight and then actually do it. It takes hours and hours of learning, but that's the actual fun part. Or back to ArmA3 and staying with planes: there are mods that try to simulate the planes and helicopters and their systems to a much greater extend than "press E to start". You actually have to know what you are doing and which buttons to press to start up that bad boy let alone to fly it. Targeting systems are much more sophisticated, so it takes some actual knowledge and skill to do it. I like that, but I get there are different kinds of people who are repelled by it. Same way I am repelled by arcady instant gratification games like the modern Battlefield titles. In the end game creation is all about a proper balance of realism and authenticity. Simulations tend a bit more towards realism, even though if some mechanics are punishing to the player, those games are inherently more "niche". While other games are all about playability, action and for a mass audience (so accessible, instant gratification, colorful, ...). What they all should be is authentic in some way or the other. (Or actually embrace the "silliness" fully, which in itself can also create authenticity, as long as the game is coherent in itself).

[@ReachTea]

Uh when I look at the sun in the game my eyes don't burn so Nicki Minaj dancing in call of doody is not unrealistic! It video game!

[@Crustybumbig]

Too long read lster

[@hyperx72]

Then there are games like VTOL VR which let you press every button in the plane and has some complicated flight mechanics, but is still simplified to the point of being able to pick up and play it

[@richie8888]

My name jeff

[@theshadowcrusader]

i aint reading allat

[@minizep]

Yo! I'm an Unreal Dev. This is Solid insight. ~Immersion~ we always talk about people using that as an adjective. "The game is so immersive!." you mean you feel immersed. Probably because the devs did a good job doing exactly what you've explained in this video! Your a Legend.

[@TheButterAnvil]

❤️

[@icarusgaming6269]

Ah yes, another oft-misused word

[@bhante1345]

If I'm not getting PTSD, I'm not having fun.

[@cheemthief]

@@bhante1345 you ever try hell let loose ?

[@bhante1345]

I've done a few tours over the years, it is premium shell shock.@@cheemthief

[@sptrm1230]

The biggest problem is that everyone means something different by the term "realism" or even "authenticity", it's not good enough to pull a "well actually the dictionary says...". So to even have a useful conversation about it everyone involved has to agree with that the term means. I take it as representing a setting/theme/thing as accurately as possible within the given context. Some would call that "authenticity" but I think that term is way too subjective. For example you can have a super realistic flight sim that models and simulates everything from flight check to flight nearly 1:1 with reality, and not have to also simulate 100s of hours of training or your pilot having to take a dump. That's one of the biggest pushbacks I see against realism in games, "well why not have your character randomly die from a heart attack or need to piss and shit lol you're so dumb". When making a game realistic you have to choose what to include and what to omit based on what's relevant to the setting. Then even the things you want to represent in the game you have to abstract away. You can't represent controlling gun recoil with a mouse looking at a 2D screen realistically, it's impossible. However if you accurately show that X gun is harder to control than Y gun, and that semi auto and burst is easier to control than full auto, that's as realistic as you can get and the recoil mechanics are then largely irrelevant. Whether or not realism enhances a game depends on the genre, theme and target audience for the game and how its implemented. As long as it "looks" and "feels" real and the outcomes are realistic, you have a realistic game. But even that conclusion has problems because some idiot that doesn't have any knowledge or understanding on the topic will think anything is realistic.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Love your mod

[@theeldestrelic]

Already dropped it on the mod page but thanks for the update. First time playing with your new recoil system and I adore it. Finally makes my beloved stock 74u to be usable. You're a saint in the modding community my friend.

[@icarusgaming6269]

I originally had a line in here about how language takes time to stabilize, so one thing that requires deliberation is people deciding what words are appropriate to use after the ones they're accustomed to have been hijacked by haters to be used against them

[@johnyj2082]

Thanks for your work on SP Tarkov

[@sptrm1230]

@@TheButterAnvil love u 2 bb

[@snache1330]

didn’t even mention how in vanguard you can just shove a drum mag into the m1 garand, and it still makes the ping of the non-existent clip ejecting

[@dudemp4]

Im gonna pretend there's a bell inside the gun that rings instead of suffering from this information

[@runforitman]

I completely get pretend healing in games even in like tarkov I do not want to take one shot and then be bedbound for 4 in game months or have my character die permanently from gangrene also the amount of sound you make doing things ik that's needed for gameplay

[@Cam64viper]

I'm glad that you mentioned Receiver, been a fan of the game where you reload with the entire left half of your keyboard for a long time. Eventually you get used to it and can do it real real quick-- got an achievement in Receiver 2 for loading the gun in under a second with all of those controls!

[@gagrin1565]

It wouldn't work for all shooters, but I could honestly see it working for a few styles. Receiver is already somewhat survival horror adjacent and I think you could absolutely have similar weapon mechanics work with zombies or similar in another setting that's very deliberate, low ammo, high demand for precision. The issue is that by making the game so detailed in that one area, it's basically ALL the game can support. Not that shooting isn't 99% of your interactions with stuff in most games anyway... but it's nice to have other options.

[@vladioanalexandru4222]

It's funny how simulating the fear of being shot at through desaturation and other effects by the squad dev is not necessary in VR. The same effects he tried to make are simply just there in VR. Like running into an enemy and trying to shoot is very panic inducing and I usually miss my shots. When I am the first one to spot an enemy and move in a good position to shoot them they seem so sluggish. Or even shell shock. A team of 2 guys tried to flush me out of a building's rooftop because we heard each other's footsteps and I waited behind the ladder. One tried to throw a smoke grenade and ran back when he saw me. I jumped down and shot him when I saw the other guy in the corner of the next room. We both looked at each other for a second and he looked terrified. When I started swinging my gun around towards him and started shooting prematurely he got focused and shot me first. Gaming, whether flat screen or in VR is memorable because of these tense moments.

[@AmyStrikesBack]

One of the best examples of realism in games is the doom mod "hideous destructor", a mod who took everything to the extreme. Every gun have to be manually operated and can jam, just a few bullets will left you bleeeding to the death on the ground, everything have weight, a a single fireball Will let you panicking as you try to take of your armor to aply a medkid as you quickly die a painfull death. You are not the doom guy, you are a normal marine.

[@AmyStrikesBack]

Theres even more things that i left out, its a experience you can only feel by suffering yourself

[@TheButterAnvil]

Played it. Very unique experience

[@ForOne814]

The question of realism is only important if it's something that the devs want to achieve. Tarkov is supposed to be "as realistic as playable". Given that, the medical system makes sense, but stuff like old recoil did not. And they definitely should add the ability to cook grenades, and make it realistic. No one is gonna actually do that, because fuses are very inconsistent and it's pointless to attempt because of that, but it will be funny when someone attempts to do so and either succeeds or dies trying.

[@icarusgaming6269]

I think Butter had a line about how the way Nikita talks about the game has changed over time that didn't make the cut. I definitely remember seeing that quote

[@bhante1345]

Grenades can be dangerous enough at the best of times.

[@tiberius8390]

Add Russian RGO impact grenades instead of "cooking". xD

[@LooperEpic]

@@tiberius8390 Siege and Tarkov have RGO/RGD impact grenades. It's just they're a bit harder to get in Tarkov (banned from the flea market) and do such little damage in R6, they get used less for one reason or another.

[@PieroMinayaRojas]

Tarkov doesn't have realistic recoil tho

[@The6thMessenger]

It's annoying on FO4 modding scene. Some people were like "it's not realistic", or "in dire need of realism", on a mod that they have the option not to install, on a mod that people poured their heart into. Like just go get a real damn gun.

[@Rookie417]

Yes, people have a right to complain

[@The6thMessenger]

@@Rookie417 And I get to complain, on people's complaint. Like why are you complaining on an optional mod nobody is forcing you to install? On an obviously not-for-you changes.

[@crassiewassie8354]

@@The6thMessengerBecause there’s no option to filter out mods that add M4 with 78 attachments and cool plasma gun from fallout 2 I dont actually go out and complain to these people I understand M4 with 78 attachments isn’t for me and i’d rather not be a dick about it lol But I’d love if nexus could filter out the tacticool stuff so I can get mods that fit the aesthetic that I personally think fallout has.

[@viktor5066]

After the ICO update from squad I noticed I had played less and less of it simply because I did not enjoy the gun play and when I did play I preferred to be on a vehicle simply because I found the gun play sucked I don’t care about “realism” I just enjoyed the slower paced (compared to most other shooters) well rounded gun play of the game along with the community that had me coming back

[@queuedjar4578]

Playing Squad like it's COD basically was always viable. If you COD it out you basically monopolize the force of violence and cause chaos for otherwise organized defenses or even attacks.

[@Zman6258]

KZbin just randomly recommended this at me even though I've never seen your channel before, but holy shit I'm sold. Salient and unbiased points made on a controversial topic in a way with humor that's integrated in a way that doesn't feel overbearing or out of place... while still being really fuckin funny? Yeah, that's a like and a sub, looking forward to seeing what else you've got up your sleeve.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Thanks a lot

[@mniakan754]

To me what matters isn’t realistic gameplay, but it’s that the games look realistic in their presentation like how insurgency sandstorm (RIP new world entertainment) did it or how cod world at war did it where they took some creative liberties when it came to their source material (real war footage) but still respected it and the game had such a somber atmosphere

[@somekindofsamuel]

900 hours in Insurgency and I've never felt more sad about a studio being shut down :(

[@ReachTea]

They weren't shut down, they had layoffs They've already said their continuing development

[@kozzy18]

For grenade cooking. You can solve this issue by randomizing the timer on the grenade fuse.

[@TheButterAnvil]

I have heard this suggestion, and it feels very tarkov lol

[@blikthepro972]

troll harder by making it so grenades can just malfunction and go off on their own, effectively having rng kill you directly

[@fuzzyapplepie6940]

For me, theres two types of realism. Detail realism and general realism. Detail realism is bulletholes appearing on your character in GTA 5 when they're shot. General realism is your character dying from one shot and you having to wait 6 real world months for him to recover. Detail realism is your singers mouth in Rock Band 2 moving accuratly to the songs lyrics. General realism is them dubbing over the original vocals with a shitty singer cause no human can perfectly mimic every vocalist on earth. Detail realism makes the game more beliveable, more immersive, but it doesn't make it realistic. Otherwise, only realistic games would have them, but detail realism can exist in fantasy universes and over the top cartoonish universes. General realism is mimicing real life to a fault, grinding the game to a halt and making it unfun. (Unless it's a simulator, those are designed to be obnoxiously realistic.)

[@betsylatimer-sayer7161]

I think an interesting point which I don't see brought up a lot is that breaking from "realism" in a game can be an important counter to the inherent jank in a lot of video games. Going to RoN for an example, having guns dropped by suspects being highlighted by a magic yellow border is entirely unrealistic, but it works to make the experience more "real" by removing the jank of the guns clipping into objects or the differences in how light works in videogames and real life. Your character would have an understanding of where the gun is that cannot really be communicated to you as a player, so an un-real element is put in to bridge the gap. It's like the suppression mechanics in Squad. In order to get the same outcome that suppression has in real life, making the player not want to stick their head out, they have to disinsentivise the player from doing that. They can achieve this by taking actions that feel Authentic, although may not be exactly what someone really would experience if they were suppressed.

[@slerpn]

I love how the squad overhaul has a similar feel to project reality

[@Nate_the_Nobody]

I think MW2(2022) had the best balance between "realism" and "fun gameplay" for its multiplayer, MW3 on the other hand was tailor made to be completely unrealistic in basically every regard so it would appeal to the adderal snorting, G-fuel huffing, ADHD sweat lords that think it's "fun" to be running around like Danny from 'The Wild Thornberrys' because they can't win fights unless they're changing their characters hit box placement every half second between jumping, sliding, dolphin diving, and other broken ass movement mechanics.

[@carterskindle7086]

If literally any videogame was realistic, it wouldn't be fun or popular. People need to shut up about realism and accept good gameplay. Fantastic video btw

[@bhante1345]

ArmA sim nights could be 20 minutes sorting gear, 15 minutes driving to the AO, then staging.

[@Rookie417]

@@bhante1345some units already spend like 20 minutes getting gear ready and driving just to start

[@Habibabobbob]

ive been doing game design for a game I want to make (maybe in 15-20 years when I have the resources to hire people) and I've had the same problem with realism. my game is set in the future, with artillery tanks, jets with anti personnel tech, and whatnot, but also being set in a dnd type aesthetic (despite never having played dnd). so I can be a wizard dude casting shadow money wizard gang spells and simultaneously shoot down squads with my lmg blickly. For context, the setting of the game is a player built pvp society, kinda like rust, but incentivizing working together far more than just killing and stealing, where a players life has far more value. and so while I was having trouble with figuring out how to encourage players to make huge teams of 100s of people and make it work and easy to use, I also have to worry about the realism esque problems more, such as how to give these futuristic weapons quirks that make them feel different and FUTURISTIC, while also keeping them making sense, such as a weapon that can adjust to different ammo types and different mags, (like a western weapons that can adjust to eastern magazines, so you can scavenge the enemies, even though there will be no factions) while also keeping it fun. I found that you can make up your own scenarios to create your OWN realistic settings to make sense. one example of this is how I figured out how to balance sniping. sniping is a huge problem in almost every game, as its not at all fun for the player killed by it, added on to the fact that anyone can snipe with ease. I decided to fix it by attacking the "anyone can do it" part. I came up with an idea utilizing really realistic and true to life sniping physics, with Coriolis effect, range finding, wind, etc. but then I found that snipers are easily spotted by the futuristic thermal tech, especially drones (which would create another unfair experience to snipers in my game, when they should feel rewarded for learning the ins and outs of sniping) to help combat this, I came up with a system that the more clothing you have on and the thicker it is, the less intense you appear on the thermal imaging, as well as a harness that greatly reduces your thermal signatures, requiring the drone operator to have a sharp eye to be able to find you, meaning the person who get the first shot is the person more masterful at their craft. both of these are examples of how real life realism can be better suited for fun, intregral gameplay. I guess what im sputtering about and trying to say, is that I relate with everything you said, and this video helped solidify my mindset of realism + problem, can still = fun, instead of realism + fun=not fun Thanks! 😊

[@kujokage4611]

my biggest complaint is games that advertise as milsims and ultra realistic while artificially increasing difficulty such as recoil with guns that have none and actively reject real world experience and advice from soldiers and other experienced people or when games go strictly by the book even though different units have a different SOP and are more lenient on what goes on the soldiers weapon or how the task is completed

[@606films9]

I'm so glad someone finally expressed disdain for definitions that use the word their defining in the definition

[@kitgat]

This is an exceptional commentary on what has become ever-so-common in the 'realism' shooter scene. There were definitely some familiar places when you broke down the misuse of the term. Players tend to get caught up on the "but irl" argument to the point of forgetting why we're making and playing games in the first place. Much of the burden of game design involves protecting players from optimizing the fun out of gameplay. Squad's ICO is my favorite example of game mechanics being used to reach a desired effect. It is a neat response to player tendencies, given that one can't properly convey fear for one's life or the nuances of real-world weapon manipulation through a computer game. At least not yet

[@sephirotic87]

You missed A VERY IMPORTANT aspect of realism in games: Predictability and Skill transfer. If you play a game that has an attempt into realism and implement realistic mechanics, and move on to a new game, your learning time will be considerable reduced and you will be able to translate part of the skills you atainned from previous games as well as have a general sense of how things should behave. This is quite real with car simulators alkready. An interesting example would be how tarkov nerfed grenade launchers by making them more realistic: 1) Grenades fired from a launcher do not arm within less than 14m away, making them useless for CQC like they used to be spammed in BF. Likewise, armor actually protects well from grenade shrapnel in the torso, most of your damage occur on your leg if you are further away from 5m. I always expect this sort of thing in tactical shooters, as well as low lethality from RPG-7 HEAT rockets not having a wide cone of shrapnel. However, stupid arcadeish games like cod, usually completely nerf explosives in a way that doesn't make sense. It also is EXTREMELY INFURIATING how COD has been shifting towards giving advantage to Control players since the advent of crossplay. Nevermind the aggressive AIM assist, Headshot damage has been severely reduced since even with Aim assist, headshotting is more difficult with controllers than with mouse. What you do? Nerf Headshots! You would expect a .50bmg to one shot ANYONE in the head. NOPE. But wait! They brought back one-hit-kills with Snipers in warzone! The .50bmpg kills in one shot? No, because it is semi-auto, but the .300 winmag rifle does! ABSOLUTELY MIND BLOWING! Any other FPS game that does not look like a psychodelic cartoon and has a .50bmg, I'd expect it to one-shot ANYONE. T WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE for "balancing" however, if the enemy was heavily armored and had some sort of thick welding mask on it. OF COURSE REALISTICALLY that would never stop a .50, but at least it would "make sense" in the translation to game logic. (I'd also expect the 7.62x51 rifles to one shot ANYONE in the head) COD is just absolutely garbage. I hate cod. I miss BF3 days. I want a sweet sweet middle ground between BF3 and squad/tarkov game with at least proper explosive, ballistic and a somewhat coherent armor + helmet system. I really like Tarkov level of realism, but It still is too janky in control and movement, (although I absolutely LOATH the crackhead parkour olympics that is cod) and the absolutely brutal RPG item-based progression and permadeath is not something someone with less than 8 hours of free time per week can afford to get into. I'm an orphan of good fps multiplayer game, unfortunately.

[@malcolmliang]

You won't ever have the realism of having your body smell like a wet dog during the day then have your cloth solidified by your drying sweat at night and not being able to smell yourself after three days. Maybe we need to add in ingrown hair, bad sleeping posture and holes in your favorite sock causing blisters 🤣

[@nathanmitchell7961]

Squad makes me feel like im forced to play a role kid of like a of like a stormtrooper in a star wars movie, they want combat to "look" good rather than playing well and having the rest be also cinematic, i think the older BF games did this very well.

[@TheONLYFeli0]

it’s because combat looks like that in real life. And because the game plays like real life combat.

[@nathanmitchell7961]

@@TheONLYFeli0 The game does not play like real combat it's a video game and it's is over dramatic gunplay over exaggerated to the point where he doesn't sell the idea that you are a trained solider.

[@veliest1886]

i think squad plays quite well, suppression works, and feels authentic to me, comparing to my blank firing drills. yeah sure everyone was able to easily pass the target shooting drills with good results on the range. but that did not mean you were able to aim that well when you attacked thru enemy position through some thicket. fire and maneuver works with massing as many bullets in enemy direction so he cant shoot back. plus youre always checking where the rest of your guys are, most of the time you're shooting into depth and you may not even see the enemy that you attack because the enemy was on the other side of the line. lot of scenarios started with a hike with your gear bag what was 20kg. then we hid them, and then we played thru whatever was set up for us. shits tiring, aiming your gun takes a moment. gameplay mechanics make the ''realistic scenario'' almost viable, but fireteam based fire and movement actually does shine in game. you are not poking your head out when a mg pours down on you. but maybe you can suppress that mg with your friend and rest of the squad can kill him or whatever. winning a firefight feels good, and i dont really feel bad if im not able to take out 3 guys in the open because they magdump me. if you want to play point and click adventure enjoy cs

[@TheONLYFeli0]

thank you for your service and for proving this dumbass wrong@@veliest1886

[@camag7651]

bro playing squad now feels like you are playing as the kid in the mw 2019 campaign, literally cant hold a gun straight.

[@malcolmliang]

People whose hardest day ever was having to walk to the nearest ATM to draw cash because card machines are down need to shut up about 'realism'

[@Christian_ThePumpkinDestroyer]

Thank you ben shapiro for your insight

[@icarusgaming6269]

Let's say, hypothetically, that you were making a stupid argument about realism on the internet. Now, just as an example, I would have to, theoretically, interject and explain why your hypothetical stance is based on a misconception

[@bhante1345]

​@@icarusgaming6269I read that at 1.25x speed.

[@insertpng6289]

15:50 caught me completely off guard

[@tz7763]

swat teams did use the g36....maybe incredibly rare but in the 90's it did happen. not even sure what you were trying to say about the use of black tips...which are used situationally depending on the enemy combatants as well.

[@aidencraft32]

are those issued to your average swat unit though?

[@tz7763]

@@aidencraft32 those guys can use their own gear from a reputable manufacturer. So just like the video game, where you can choose...

[@punishedgwynie]

tourniquets will absolutely permanently stop bleeding. it won't fix the damage to the muscle or bone from the bullet, but it will stop you from bleeding out. you'd probably want stitches afterward so it will heal faster, but the entrance and exit wounds would *eventually* heal on their own.

[@punishedgwynie]

tourniquets are used to stop major bleeding.

[@TheButterAnvil]

I was referring to the chest wound. I could have been more clear

[@punishedgwynie]

@@TheButterAnvil ty :) sorry to erm actually you

[@penguixyt3246]

Another point to mention for authenticity, is expectations of authenticity vs dev intentions around authenticity. One thing i always like to do when someone talks about realism and mentions the battlefield 5 trailer, is break down what alot of the "unrealistic " aspects are, and how they are realistic and period accurate. (Prosthetic is a post ww1 arm prosthetic which the UK was one of the first to innovate on and spin into wide spread production a d sale, clothes worn are a mix of ww1 and ww2 era british and a american clothes like british long coats, victorian era under shirts etc, the criket bat is accurate as the sport became popular in the UK during the 1920s and 30s and its not unrelistic a soldier would bring a bat with them as us soldiers would do so with baseball bats and footballs, and a british woman serving in combat while rare, was in fact, possible, though a specific set of events would have to happen, as many women in the UK served mostly rear echelon support and commanding/intelligence roles in europe. It goes to show that for that specifically, its not about actual realism or accuracy but about meeting expectations of realism, the trailer was over the top and very modern hollywood action movie esc (or just... a tarantino film) , so it doesnt fit with the expectations around ww2 games and media of 100% serious dark gritty and what people expect to see, but listening to the devs, their intentions were to have things like clothes and guns etc be period accurate but allow for more creative expression and fun gameplay chances, this is also why BFV had some very rare but real and period accurate weapons and vehicles in game, to showcase things people would never have heard of otherwise. Its honestly a shame how much hate that trailer got under the guise of "realism"

[@TheButterAnvil]

I consider it to also be inauthentic. Subjectively, the goofier aspects pull me out of the experience

[@spy-ops1052]

I think a lot of people want to think that they know what's realistic or not to feel smart without knowing what's realistic. These people want to think that the games they like are realistic because they want to feel smart for playing a game, these people feel smart saying they like realism when in reality, a hyper realistic game would be very boring 90% of the time.

[@D4NKN3SS]

I'm a moron who found this in my recommended feed, but I will likely send this to other morons I run into as well.

[@TheButterAnvil]

I can ask nothing more ❤️

[@Duck1en]

It's like an anti moron virus then

[@icarusgaming6269]

Please do

[@thiccwine6091]

I think the best way to describe "realism" in games is giving the video game character some control over the player instead of you having full entire control. Squad suppression physics are genius for that reason, even if they are "annoying". A game with characters who are meant to simulate a person should have reflexes and emotion, which is why not being able to cook a grenade is an effective way of simulating or showing that the character is more than a meaningless 3D model but in a way an extension of the player almost. A person controlling characters with a mouse and keyboard can't share genuine feelings through a screen unless its a story game with cutscenes and stuff like that, so thinking outside the box to make you feel the characters' thought processes and natural reactions via game physics or mechanics is smart and effective even when it isn't considered real.

[@FoxElliott]

Talking about the water thing, it's very easy to keep that realism while adding something to make it balanced. Infact, nine times out of ten you can do something similar. Just add the ability for HE grenades/explosions to do lots of damage in a larger radius underwater. Drag people down and soak their clothes so going into the water isn't worth it most of the time. Or just flat out make some guns mess up after being dropped into the water. Realism can be picked and chosen, but it's important to include the most glaring and obvious things like basic Physics when making something like a military shooter.

[@OXY187]

nowadays, the police departments (high budget ones) use drones to clear the entry way and incapacitate the suspects If possible, and then send in the Swat operators to secure the premises. And it's not a 5 man team, its at least 10 swat operators and all of them are armed to the feet.

[@SamahLama]

Me and you definitely grew up with the same KZbinrs and are the same age. You remind me of myself in a lot of ways lol

[@mastoner20]

If you want realism; Ukraine is looking for volunteers currently for a totally realistic combat experience. If you want authenticity, join Karma's Arma 3 server. If you want unbalanced gameplay where your opponent is always at a lower disadvantage than you are, congrats, you're a Tarkov streamer.

[@BubblePuddle_]

One way I deal with big changes in games is the “welp, this is game now, i will play it and see how it feels” approach. Is it enjoyable, yes or no? Usually it’s yes, games can be enjoyable even with flaws and I like to look past them and enjoy myself.

[@kimjunn879]

What's the game at 5:38 ?

[@stormolflak]

I want to know too, the recoil is punchy

[@JohnZura]

Modded Fallout 4

[@kimjunn879]

@@JohnZura wow didn’t think mods could change a game’s look that much. Thanks.

[@welshmouse]

It's pretty simple. Realism is one of several elements that relate to enjoyment. There are other elements that matter more, and so people don't mind when realism is traded off against those things. But people are sick of the modern trend of realism being traded off against things that matter *less*. It's one thing to trade realism when balance is a factor, or when fun is a factor. It's another thing to trade realism so you can sell microtransactions, or manipulate people into playing longer, or simply because you want to appeal to some diversity agenda that your core fans don't give a shit about. Very few people want or expect a perfectly realistic game, because they know that would come at the expense of fun, balance, accessibility etc. But they want as much realism as is *within* the boundaries and stylistic choices of the game, and don't want their immersion broken because some suit trying to appeal to the LGBT community or sell more GameBucks(tm) has decided that what the fans want plays second fiddle to the whims of corporate overlords.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Based

[@ckay7816]

you are one of my favorite youtubers, i understand why you cannot post more often, but i cant help to wish you would!

[@TheButterAnvil]

Someday 😂 appreciate the support

[@mcdonaldburger420]

i wouldn't want real life lookin like a effortless game that was scrapped 10 years ago dawg

[@truedemoknight6784]

10:40 The manual for the M67 grenade actually instructs soldiers to cook the grenade for two seconds in combat situations...

[@TheButterAnvil]

Corrected in pinned comment. That's my bad lol

[@truedemoknight6784]

​@@TheButterAnvilOh sweet. Thanks for replying BTW, usually when I leave comments correcting videos the channel just deletes them.

[@alexd531]

this brought some insight to my general views. i used to love r6 but the only way i could explain why ive grown to avoid it has been "its gotten too arcady and like overwatch in feel" but this gave me actual ways to discus my position on the games i play. now if i could just find people to play the game style i prefer, id be set, lol

[@Someone-lr6gu]

THIS I've seen people complain about how the game should or shouldn't be realistic while forgetting that games are meant to be fun to play, not realistic. Things in a game are designed based on what would be fun to play with given what experience the game wants to provide, thats why even such dedicated simulators like DCS omit things irrelevant to the core gameplay loop of having fun with a plane/helicopter. I will definitely be sending this video to people who complain about realism or lack thereof in games, thank you. This also helped me make my own understanding of it coherent, because I felt something was off with new COD MW3 campaign missions (other than the horrid writing), but realism wouldn't fit for an explanation, since COD was never realistic - but authenticity, consistency and immersiveness are definitely a factor.

[@triparadox.c]

"games are meant to be fun to play, not realistic" I don't agree with that because people find "fun to play" completely subjective to each other. Some people actually enjoy having to work together in order to fight a group of enemy. Some others prefer to act like Rambo, solo-ing a squad of 6 or 7 people and coming out victorious. The issue isn't that game shouldn't be realistic. It's for game studios to actually market their games, with whatever level of realism they aim for, towards the intended audience. Squad did this poorly. It was trying to be a shooter game where it placed a lot of emphasis on teamwork and coordination. Their slogan literally had these in it. Yet their updates progressively got worse, only accommodating more casual players who didn't want to learn to cooperate and just wanted to Rambo their ways.

[@Someone-lr6gu]

@@triparadox.c I don't disagree with you. Every game is fun to play in it's own way that appeals to certain people, regardless of the level of realism it claims. What I meant by that is that games should be fun to play within their design, as in the intended idea by the developer of how the game should be played. Realism in this case is just as much of a tool to make the game fun to play as anything else. A realistic damage system may fit perfectly in one game and make the game worse in another game.

[@theIJPmexican]

Great video man, couldn't have put it better myself. I just wished yt put the video in my sub feed when it was new, but better late than never I guess.

[@TheButterAnvil]

I'll take it 😁

[@sillybilly2004]

Immersion is important

[@badoof7803]

my favorite thing about cyberpunk canon is that the powercreep is canon. V actually is built to solo a platoon of corporate soldiers. when snake even gets detected by the enemy its a canonical error.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Mgs cutscenes are too stupid for me to take seriously ngl

[@miguelbat27]

At the end of the day they're games and their job is to be fun and communicate an immersive experience. Immersive sims like stalker or Deus ex are often praised for their "realism" not because they're actually realistic but because they let you interact with the world just enough to feel real.

[@GoredonTheDestroyer]

Something that needs to be kept in mind is that realism and fun, while they often work together, are not themselves conducive of one another. For example - BeamNG Drive is an incredibly fun physics sandbox involving and revolving around cars. Every major aspect of how a car functions, and ceases to function, is replicated in excruciating detail to the degree that a gentle bump against a curb can, and often will, completely disable a vehicle. The fun in BeamNG comes from how painstakingly realistic it is. Now compare that to a more typical racing game, like Need for Speed, where the fun comes from beating your rivals in a suped up 1998 Honda Civic Type R with the supercharged V6 out of a Lotus Exige and a race transmission. Would having the mechanics of BeamNG make Need for Speed more fun? Not necessarily, because both games have sandboxes that rely on different core mechanics. What I've observed over the years is that gamers who complain about realism and accuracy in their games don't actually want _realism,_ rather wanting the _illusion_ of realism. Take people who have thousands of hours in Call of Duty, yet complain endlessly about how the games aren't realistic, or accurate, or authentic, only to turn down playing games like Project Reality, Red Orchestra/Rising Storm.

[@Blin240]

i still remember shooting an m16 and m240 for the 1st time and realizing games lied to me regarding recoil. especially tarkov

[@Valium762]

It still hurts my soul how much the sequels deviated from MW2019. Everyone loved the new direction! Why, Activision? Why!?

[@TheButterAnvil]

Lots of people hate it (they say they always did, I'm skeptical), but they hated mwii even more, so idk who the changes were meant to serve. I liked the tactical vibe, but slowing the gameplay and making the plot retarded serves neither camp

[@Lighthouse29501]

I Just want to say Watch dogs 1 had a difficulty option called realistic difficulty and it's so fucking good -the enemy's range view is realistic i got spotted once from the next block -stealth takedown actually make noise so any near by enemy will hear it and check out its source -both you and enemy almost die with 2 shots only sometime even once It really made me want more realistic difficulty for stealth games

[@TheButterAnvil]

Huge disagree on this one. Realistic difficulty in watch dogs just encourages spamming focus and cover shooting, which is the most boring way to play that game. The melee takedowns are super sick but unrealistic difficulty you just get killed if you try to use them. Consider checking out my John wick gun fu video if you're a big watch dogs guy

[@luxo4619]

You can't create an arcade fps shooter with so much realism in it. Unless every gun shoots bb's.

[@DarkSwordsman]

This was actually nice. I never knew about "authenticity" in this context. I knew about game balance and having a consistent experience, but not through the scope of "authenticity". This is why I have such negative opinions of most FPS games, because they lack consistency and good user experience. For example: The recent Tarkov recoil changes. A lot of people are screaming about how they're going to incentivize bad gameplay and chads. The reality is I know I can rely on my weapon, so I can push more, as someone that leans towards ratting. Which ironically doesn't explicitly mean I can just run and gun. It means I can actually think about strategy without thinking about the handicap of the horrendous recoil before. Either way: Thanks, this provides a nice perspective shift.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Thanks gamer

[@NORKIE]

realism is good until it s not fun, when you make something tedious it becomes boring.

[@emulatorisland7417]

I like this video, you aren't smug and you actually look at both sides all the while being funny. Literal zestyjesus but reversed. Subbed.

[@TheButterAnvil]

I'm occasionally a little smug

[@emulatorisland7417]

​@@TheButterAnvil ATLEAST in healthy doses!

[@SkoRBLX]

and MP18 was made in 1918 last year of the war

[@cybercat7851]

War Thunder: *laughs in classified documents*

[@Grubusss]

Community: WE WANT REALISM IN TARKOV! Nikita: Makes it so if you die you have to wait at least a week so your PMC recovers from injuries (Still too short) Community:

[@MajorCinnamonBuns]

That's autistic level hyperrealism at that point. A whole different category that nobody asked for.

[@icarusgaming6269]

I actually have an idea of how to make this feature work in a TvT environment, but you need to be able to recruit an indefinite number of new soldiers so you can still play the fucking game. When progression is permadeath, only the really good players will rise to the top and earn their specializations on the team. Have you ever played Massive Action Game for the PS3?

[@spooderman4008]

The fighter jet thing is real and it's called VTOL VR.

[@D2_Papaya]

I think people often conflate what they actually mean by realism with immersion, from my understanding what makes a game "realistic" is actually just it being immersive with a hint of realism or realism as a aesthetic. I think stalker is a good example, it has a lot of fantasy elements in it and a exaggerated gopnik lifestyle for some. However that environment feeling like its alive and breathing with NPC's doing things while the player isn't present, and things evolving like that, makes things far more IMMERSIVE, giving in my opinion the feel of what most players call realism.

[@Luminater143]

In swat 4 officers really uses revolvers

[@ventex1352]

To be honest I play video games because they're fun rather than realistic. I don't wanna do every single little thing to shoot a gun or suffer from blurry vision and other side effects that are added to implement that "realism". Video games will never be realistic, they can't simulate every single thing that can happen irl, not your body movement, not your sight, not the weight of weapons you use, nothing will be realistic no matter how much devs would try. So I'd much rather consistency over everything so the experience can be fun.

[@seeweedgamer9718]

at 3:16 it is like those exersises where you needed to circele the item that doesn't belong.

[@lesbiandawg]

thank you so much for this dawg Ive been thinking exactly all of this but unable to put it into words for so long

[@DanielR.122]

I'd adopt to any realistic feature anytime. just games don't have a lot of this feature.

[@yesyes-om1po]

I like realism and things being simulated because it, by design, adds complexity to the game's mechanics and more variability, like simulated ballistics, in depth simulated aerodynamics, etc.

[@bunnyonabunwithagunnicepun5689]

Man, if only there were multiple separate games with varying degrees of realism that we could choose from…

[@TheButterAnvil]

I can't tell if this is meant to agree or disagree

[@407fitz8]

Very well put. I think this was well done and I enjoyed watching it and it highlighted some shortfalls and hypocrisy in my arguments. Thought provoking.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Love to hear that

[@WowItzAkina]

11:00 i feel like cooking grenades in tarkov Should be added because it’ll force players to actually think before they light a grenade.

[@smasherrr07]

it should not be called healing, it should be called recovering or quickly recovering from a wound.

[@daviduprichard8343]

6:30 honestly that seems believable, their training is mental and I believe a single SAS soldier could 100% do this considering when the SAS was first formed they survived behind enemy lines by going in stealthy and stealing their stuff to use as their own. So to me it seems pretty believable lol

[@uuuuuu8373]

Maybe in the old days before modern technology and tactics. Mind you the enemy is also former SF with significantly more training. They are from similar calibers, except it's 100 to 1. The SAS are good, but they're not gods.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Shadow company aren't random untrained soldiers. They are ex-special forces military contractors. They also know 141 is there, and are actively looking for them

[@uuuuuu8373]

​@Shadow_ball "Sneaking around" is highly highly risky and are most likely done very rarely, and are reserved for very special cases. Not to mention guns are loud regardless, plus most countries have NVGs now, as well as militia forces. If you look at alot of SOF videos, they're all loud and really fucking aggressive. But I'm just talking out of my ass so who really fucking knows lol. No doubt sneaking around happens.

[@KeeganYF12]

"DO NOT MILK THE GRENADE" Brotha, I can't even find the nipple.

[@jacobbass2056]

As a hardcore fan of "realistic video games" I was ready to dislike before even finishing the video but didn't because you had some solid points.

[@TheButterAnvil]

👌

[@malachi846]

1:07 You underestimate American police forces. Maybe no G36, but definitely the revolver.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Probably true. The original script said "desert eagle" but I had just lost my ironman run that had it unlocked 🤣

[@rashesttuba88]

13k subs? Fucking banger video dude. Idk how points like this haven't crossed my mind. I'm a super avid war thunder player and people get so fucking hung up on realism that they're willing to release classified documents in the honor of "realism" completely forgetting the game isn't realistic by any means at all. You can be in a Tiger II engaging BTR-80s for christsake. At the end of the day, it's an arcade game, even if the game mode you frequent is called "realistic battles". Adding these points you made to the video game debate notepad (this doesn't actually exist)

[@camerondavids2481]

The thing that I talk about often in the realism argument is that if you're being realistic for the sake of being pedantic then you're holding your art back. It is best if you use realism to enhance your vision for your project. If you want to have a game with fast-paced movement and fully automatic weapons, why on earth would you set it in World War 1? Set it in the far future, you can have all the laser MG's and jetpacks you want, a better use of a WW1 setting is slower-paced and deliberate gameplay, because you know, they mostly only had bolt-action rifles, trenches and barbed wire. If you want something with that turn of the century aesthetic then cool, but set it in an entirely fictionalised setting, but then, stay consistent. Or else it's just nonsense, people still apply their common sense to an experience even if it's entirely fiction, a flat-screen computer in a steam-punk setting? A red dot sight in WW1? A musket in a NASA space setting? These might seem a bit off unless you have a justification, because on the surface it just doesn't stick to the theme. and brings the immersion way down. It's good to have a clear picture of what your project looks like in it's entirety.

[@conchoid5749]

Actually, Police officers DO carry full sized colt pythons. G36 is also used by swat units (though it isn't very common) and nothing is really preventing them from using black tips.

[@Thiccness_Is_Delicious]

Did i just watch a 15 min video on stop using realism as a generic term to describe everything, yes yes i did 😅

[@SirMatthew]

What topic ISNT stupidly and poorly debated in the gaming community

[@johndoe4004]

im pretty sure the "futuristic" aspect came from the fact not many games or movies/media showed off the weapon, there was a time the p90 was considered exotic looking in games

[@kaiserfoxi266]

I used to be a big "realism" guy but now im more interested in games just doing unique things and being games. What floors me the most is when people complain or criticize a game for having prototype weapons or weapons that just didn't see a lot of action, like your bf1 example. Like do people not want to have interesting things? Video games by their very nature have the unique ability to portray and allow players to use weapons, devices and vehicles that didnt quite make it in real life. In my opinion, thats fps games at their best.

[@jtnachos16]

Welp. This vid earned a sub from me. Whether it gets kept is up in the air, but first impressions after being dropped off by the YT algorithm are very good. This is, unfortunately, the first video I've seen on this subject that understands the difference between realism and authenticity, and how one is FAR more important than the other as a general rule. A game can be extremely unrealistic, but still be authentic. A game can be extremely realistic, but not be authentic. At the end of the day, option 1 tends to be far more well regarded than option 2, and that's for very good reason. As an example, a sci-fi game can't ever be truly realistic when it's working with sci-fi tech that operates on materials or concepts we don't have. You can have a very authentic sci-fi game, on the other hand. Focusing on authenticity over realism leads to far more benefits than trying to focus on realism. True realism is the realm of full-fidelity sims, and most of those still make concessions. Unrealistic but authentic sounds like an oxymoron, but Receiver is the best example I can think of for it. Are it's mechanics realistic to the operation of firearms? Yes, more so than pretty much any other game I've seen that isn't VR. On the other hand, that same realism takes you out of the moment, because many of those 'manual actions' in Receiver are things you don't actively think about or conciously do while handling firearms in real life. They are things your mind and body handle mostly on autopilot, especially when in a situation where you are actively using that firearm for protection or threat-removal purposes.

[@oikoj7869]

RECEIVER MENTIONNED !!!!!!!!!!

[@jacobaurelius5361]

The word we’re looking for, is verisimilitude

[@dusting1851]

tourniquets can stay on the body for much longer than the myths tell you. source: from 15 yr corpsman in TCCC class

[@TheButterAnvil]

I've gotten this comment like 6 times. I said "permanently" specifically to avoid it

[@dusting1851]

@@TheButterAnvil must have missed that, my bad

[@TuriGamer]

When realism just starts making the game annoying and tedious I like to call it reatism Tarkov is like 90% reatism

[@sethtfp2373]

I think a game that’s hyper-realistic but with source engine physics & ragdolls would be quite funny.

[@splizzex]

Great video. This needs to be watched by all the people who reply to any criticism of realism in a game with "Oh well but it's a game and you can respawn and there's magic in it." These people think that because there are some aspects in it that don't fully reflect reality that it excuses the lack of consistency and authenticity. Edit: I should mention that I wrote this comment before finishing the video. What I wrote here is the essentially the same as what TheButterAnvil and the Squad Devs say in the Squad Segment of the video. A more recent example is the Squad Infantry Combat Overhaul. It is commonly referred to as the Squad "Noodle Arm" update because now with the new squad update recoil hits really hard and during prolongued full auto fire your character loses the ability to hold the weapon straight and people have voiced out their disdain for the new recoil mechanic in squad claiming it is exaggerated and unrealistic. But I staunchly defend that new recoil mechanic. Yes, it is grossly exaggerated but it serves a very distinct function that I feel like all the critics are not reralizing. They've upped the recoil by a ludicrous amount to make it more difficult for people to go one-man-army on enemies. Before the Infantry Combat Overhaul a single guy with really good aim could absolutely wreck a group of 10 people if he wanted. All he'd have to do is flick heads one after another with his god aim. You could do a full sprint for 20 seconds and immediatly ads with perfect accuracy. That's not an authentic display of warfare. There's physical strains put on a person when shooting a gun that are just impossible to experience through a PC screen. In real life there's the loud noise that can render you deaf, the fear in the back of your mind that your life can end at any moment, not to mention the exhaustion from getting out of a full sprint carrying 30kg of equipment and possible sleep deprivation since sleep is a commodity on the frontline among other things. But in a game you feel none of that. All you have to do is hold Left Mousebutton for prolongued fire. The devs are using an unrealistic mechanic (exaggerated recoil and bullet deviation) to provide a more authentic end experience (you can't achieve much on your own).

[@TailcoatGames]

15:00 YO KCD ~~mentioned~~ showcased (for a second)