Realism in Gaming & Movies | Why Getting It Right Matters

Many of our interests when we were kids (that carried over into adulthood) were influenced by action movies and video games. The same is true for the next generation, whether we like it or not and for better or for worse. Josh and Drew debate on the responsibility developers and directors have in bringing realism to the entertainment that is shaping the minds of the next generation. Ultimately, it's parents that need to be doing the teaching and pointing out the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sound off in the comments on films & games that get it right.
From Episode 013 of The Dirty Civilian Podcast.
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00:00 Unrealistic Games
05:21 Immersion Issues
08:40 James Bond Movies
11:38 SEAL Team & Tyler Grey
15:55 We Call It Zimbabwe Now
23:47 Heat
28:06 Why It Matters
38:35 Ready Or Not
41:03 Final Thoughts

[@discowookie6841]

I really enjoy waking up to see that I have some dirty civilian to watch while at work in the morning. Thanks guys

[@nochenoche9905]

Samsies

[@BattleChemist]

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised I didn't hear John Wick brought up as one of the "doing it right" examples. The fact Keanu Reeves went to train for competitive shooting so that he could do the gunplay correctly sold me on the movie before I ever saw it.

[@Sentii2]

He was brought up very briefly. Talked about Jiu-Jitsu and the fact that he trained, and probably still does. 30:08

[@BattleChemist]

@@Sentii2 thanks! I watch a lot of YT while also working, which is why I started with the disclaimer.

[@dirty-civilian]

It's definitely respectable and a step forward, though we'd love to see guys like Keanu receive better training than what Taran offers.

[@BattleChemist]

@@dirty-civilian Agreed. That appeared to be purely competitive training, rather than self-defense or 'urban operations' civilian training. Like you said, good step forward and something worth praising to push other actors in the same direction.

[@blakelutgen6742]

The first time I put on NODS and they didn't make that cool MW2 sound, my soul was crushed.

[@senorFrog2032]

Mine do a similar sound on my dtnvgs, I got L3white unfilmed

[@wylnd]

When you put on stone age soviet PNW57E goggles they do make that sound. Constantly :D Because there is a huge ass transformer on the back of your head. Modern ones only make it when autogating kicks in

[@buff34x]

The main reason I care so much about realism in media is because of how many friends I have that aren't necessarily gun people but want to clone their favorite gun from a movie or game. When that set up doesn't translate to something fun or useable in the real world it tends to kill what little interest they had in firearms to begin with. Also they showed me both scenes from Heat during boot camp (USMC) in 2014 mixed in with various other real life war footage as examples for us to learn from.

[@Thergood]

Michael Mann recently released a novel called Heat 2 that picks up with Chris where the movie left off. Definitely recommend.

[@petep2270]

I think the best way to get more realism is proliferation as you guys and Trex used to talk about. Filmmakers and game studios chase the popularity of things. And cash of course. Like it or not, snoop dog is more popular than milsim realism so COD will keep adding him to every game.

[@spry4543]

@democratslie8113 Too bad Tarkov is a horrendous hacker hideout

[@petep2270]

@democratslie8113 nothing else is to their level yet, so I just play MW19 ground war. Lol

[@tactikiller]

@democratslie8113the helicopter that picked up the Warzone winner had a come and take it sticker, that was cool haha.

[@protectyour2a482]

Seal Team really knocked it out of the park and I feel like a movie that is often slept on is All The Devils Men which gives a practical look into the technology black ops probably would use and the weapons and tactics are spot on, using suppressive fire and hand held lights to blind an opponent

[@adarkwind4712]

Kinda funny to hear you bring it up cause I just recently bought a plate carrier and plates. Worn it a few times looked up where you want it to sit all that. Was watching Jack Ryan on Amazon prime first thing I noticed when they showed the characters kitted out was that it looked like none of them actually had plates in their PCs. I’ve owned a pc and plates for all of 2 weeks and that’s the first thing I noticed about the scene.

[@chancedargue2307]

I really like this. I used to be a big action shooting movies when I was younger, now I’m a dirty civilian and I will actively avoid movies because the gun play turns me off. Holding movie industry accountable will work. Sonic movie is a great example of bullying the industry until they make it right.

[@danestevens1]

Fun fact: James Bond's origins are Canadian. Ian Flemming went through spy training at Camp-X in Oshawa, Ontario Canada.

[@OutlawCaliber13]

I always wonder what even WWII soldiers would think of how we operate now, even just our basic soldiers. Like how they compare in plan execution in things like take down. Surely they had capture raids back then, or was it just balls out kill em all? Definitely need things like firearm correction in the movies. Media has the ability to teach a lot to people that wouldn't normally get it.

[@kaos_actual1694]

Not sure if you guys will see this or not but thank you for everything you do. Especially making laughs first thing Monday morning.

[@carlinator92]

Great video! It’s exactly the same way with IT and tech in games and movies. For example when people have server racks in the middle of the office space and the servers are completely quiet with no fan noise and no heating and cooling system..

[@gunterstraus606]

I feel as though I see film critics noticing tac gear and weapons handling more, and not having the correct words to describe it, so much like other language they can't develop those observations

[@rcnewman51.]

Been loving all the content recently, you guys have been producing some top notch stuff!

[@echo4533]

I've been waiting for a video discussing this aspect of movies and video games. I wouldn't say certain unrealism make a movie bad, but there's definitely the immersion breaking aspect when it comes to war, police or just general action movies. Especially the scenes where the highly trained PMCs can't hit the main character from 20 meters away with decked out platforms. So fucking immersion breaking it's incredible. On the other hand most of the audience couldn't care less if the ejection port for example is closed while firing, or the fire rate of an UZI is much higher than it actually is in real life. If realism in movies was on high demand by society, I definitely think they would go the extra stretch, or at least try to. Until then we have Terminal List, End of Watch, Zero Dark Thirty, Jarhead, Lone Survivor or even The Outpost for that matter just to name a few. I'll always love these iterations because they stand out with their unique plot, and also don't follow the standard run and gun type of bullshit we see in Hollywood most of the time.

[@ThomasThePanzerTank]

The first time I saw realism in a film with firearms was actually in Schindler’s List. When people are killed by firearms in the film it is hauntingly real. There’s no over exaggerated movement, no stunt or dramatic fall it’s just the person crumpling. I know that not every film will have that level of realism but it was definitely effective at portraying being on the receiving end of a firearm.

[@kyliejohn3813]

No, Barry Nelson was the first to play James Bond in the 1954 film Casino Royal. His character went by Jimmy Bond.

[@gob7116]

SEAL Team is hands down the best ever and will be. T1 guys like Tyler, Mark Owen (Bisionette in UBL raid) as a producer, many NSW and GB guys playing the role of 2ICs of other teams and even Full Metal who was a TL attached to bravo is amazing. Justin Melnick runs the guns and gear and I think is a SWAT guy and Crye connected guy. The dog is his service dog too. As for games, tarkov is second to none. Ground Branch and Ready or Not focuses on CQB and teamwork which is great, but tarkov gives you a lot more consequences to shooting the wrong guy, working medical, why kit matters etc. GB and RoN are more straight forward so they can be good tools but can’t you just get invested into it and give you highs and lows while learning some firefight tactics (whether it’s setting up an ambush, contemplating enemy squad’s movement, flanking, suppressive fire, etc.) like tarkov.

[@reptardmthyperblable]

" All the Devils men" had some good scenes

[@isaiahgrijalva987]

You guys have been spearheading amazing content, Ive always talked about a company that needs to do exactly what you gentlemen are doing. I think you really push preparedness with for actual average civilians and talk about real things amd not just plate carriers or NVGS your trying to sell. You guys are doing Gods work man hopefully one day Ill have the opportunity to work with such a needed community

[@GerbyMcGerbs]

You can tell they aren't into the culture of gaming when they say CoD is the best game ever made. Enjoyed the video and great points made.

[@jkellyid]

Great episode. Fun as a newer 2a enthusiast.

[@R3alWear]

19:26 Well played brother 🤣👌 laughed pretty good at this story

[@Kalbee]

Doing the stereotypical “drinking my coffee with DC on the TV in the morning”

[@keithp6054]

33:16 This is one of the reasons why Miami Vice the 80s TV show and Burn Notice were really good...

[@UrNotThatGuyPal]

Bruh that James Bond ad intro LOL top tier

[@Skilldevil54]

Personally I would say Escape From Tarkov is probably one of the video games that got people into gun culture or made them more into it then they already are. Tarkov is the only video game that I know of that is so detailed in everything from weapons customization to bullets, kit and gear. However, there is always going to be that fine line of making a game/movie entertaining and enjoyable vs. having it become super realistic to where it might feel like a chore doing. Overall I believe movie and video games have such an impact on the firearms industry that it can't be ignored regardless if it is perfect or not.

[@AJohnSmith]

Cecil Rhodes, Rhodesia. He made his riches in the De Beers mines (go down that rabbit hole). Boer were Dutch farmer/ranchers. Rhodesia lives on through the Ridgeback.

[@Schultz344]

So the high cut thing, there are loads of active mil guys running around in high cuts without electronic ear pro. As the marine corps is transitioning to high cuts for everyone it seems a good portion aren't getting issued electronic hearing protection.

[@metalover2]

Glad they mentioned John wick. Strike back is a gem that I reccomend to everyone. But only the episodes with the original guys.

[@GooninRaccoonin]

In the Punisher TV series, there was a flashback when he was in Khandahar, all these special guys had highcuts with nothing on it, and they all had condor plate carriers. Not to mention all their gear looks super clean and new

[@cw7legionofpewrights596]

Black hawk down the movie, enemy at the gates, and 13 hours for sure my favorite movie. I agree the last 007 really pissed me off on gun scenes the one handed mp7 scene with no cover like really where’s the guy with the dragnov to get this over with. The third Jon wick I actually enjoyed more than the 4th.

[@SirDehumanized]

One gun Movie I really like is called "Way of the Gun" There's several fun shootout scenes in that. I don't know how realistic it was compared to real life but I know compared to other movies it was a step ahead.

[@harmandeepsingh6598]

Love your content 😊

[@TheOwningsberg]

The scene in Sicario 2 where they’re being dusted out in a convoy, then tried to use thermal through the windshield, had me going on a rant.

[@user-wp3rt2nr1f]

Love a new podcast with the morning cup of coffee

[@ethanspringer8190]

I love that you guys get into this. I thought I was the only o e who picked apart movies on gun play and equipment screw ups. I don't know the correct way on a lot, I am by no means an expert. But it hurts to see blatantly bad use or procedure in movies with guns and gear.

[@GrimRealityGroup]

Tyler talked about this when it came to seal team about how the hollywood scene just doesnt know shit about anything and how a lot of times the budget wont even allow for them to get it right even if they wanted to so he had to have a buddy lend a ton of uniforms and equipment for the first season unpaid for so they had had real stuff to film with. Hollywood is still playing catchup and I think these gems of shows and movies that get it right are probably gonna continue to be gems for a long time in the future because most people watching will never know so theyll just keep watching these movies and allowing for it to be this way. People like us because of what we know you cant unsee somthing thats wrong you have to make a conscious decision to ignore it where as people who don't will never even catch that somthings is super wrong.

[@carlmauser1515]

I agree with you so much I want to give you two thumbs up.

[@molonlabe8126]

Keep it up, your content is awesome

[@KingBruceLeeOG]

That was a nice thing to say about airsofters. I started as an airsofter, joind the army and after that came back to airsoft. I even saw ppl in the army that were worse at their jobs then airsofters are at a game.

[@dawsonbergondo33]

my brother tells me to shut up every time i start pointing stuff out and get frustrated over it lol. glad you guys feel the same way! lol, great video!!!

[@RAIDER8388]

Ngl, that transition to the gold plug in was solid.

[@dirty-civilian]

Drew is a true professional.

[@robertcollura7236]

This is funny because last night i literally turned off a movie because they had high cut helmets with no ear pro and then turned on and watched for the first time seal team and enjoyed it. Good stuff as always gentlemen.

[@rednecksniper4715]

The biggest gun fuck up in Hollywood that killed a movie for me is the scene in John Wick where they were shooting each other in a subway with suppressed pistols and no one batted an eye. That’s not how suppressors work lol

[@mnkie32]

Interesting thing about the Covenant is Kawa who's in the movie is a trainer and has done the cool guy stuff over seas. Not sure if he fully advised though.

[@Jaggalicious]

Arma is the way to go, veterans love and play it too and it is widely supported, definitely the best milsim game imo

[@Antonio---]

I remember going to Louisville as kid for holiday from overseas and I really enjoyed my first scooter ride there, good times. I had a blast watching the movie "plane" it was released not long ago on blue ray, great cast to.

[@Antonio---]

I meant to say the movie "plane" and not "flight with Denzel lmao my bad

[@dirty-civilian]

Plane was actually pretty good. Enjoyed it for the most part.

[@KCR3CO1L09]

You guys should definitely have Commando Bond on! He is genuinely an amazing person, I worked with him for years at a previous workplace! Would love to see you guys collaborate, would be such a fun video!

[@tactikooldad]

Seal Team is definitely one of my favorite shows. The way they display tactics properly lets me cheat and learn even without trying to learn. Just like you guys, I pulled up IMDb to figure out who was involved, did a little research on Tyler Gray and found out not only is he the show, dude was the single reason they had the gear they had initially. One of his interviews on a podcast , he stated “the gear they had was old fake air-soft type stuff(which isn’t bad) but for a production on that scale, cmon. Fast forward a few min into the conversation he then mentions he had a buddy who had some extra gear lying around and pretty much let them use everything….hence the realistic gear you spoke on and camo patterns. In addition to that, him bringing Brock on who actually jumped out of planes with dogs before prior the to guy they originally had! So YES…..he is the show!

[@bryceburnell7347]

the point about the placement of lasers and lights and the awkward hand placement they would require like that is beyond real

[@jonathanfisher3916]

Yall really need to check out Ground Branch if you play on PC. I spent 8 years in the regular army, just your average grunt, couple of deployments to Iraq, done cqb in daylight and under nods. Ground branch nails the gear, weapons, nods, etc.

[@boromir4pres]

Triple Frontier and Echo 3, most realistic flicks out there.

[@ethanmorgan7242]

Mayor of kingstown gets it pretttty on pointtt

[@a.m.2694]

As a patreon, we're still waiting to see that email Drew :)

[@ZroCool_Garage]

FYI Sean Connery wasn’t the first James Bond, the first James Bond was an American Actor Barry Nelson…

[@baileyosborn8724]

I had those same pet peevs about mwII but one if my other pet peeves is you could create you load out before the mission cause real life your making your loadout based on the mission

[@volkoff6357]

What Hollywood did to the Terminal list is an act of treason. I couldn't make it though the the 3rd episode. They completely changed the story and characters. I've never been more disappointed in a film or series. The books are incredible and deserved to be followed to the book perfectly if made into a show.

[@leeross3950]

Some other little known movies with some great "gun play" Way of the Gun Sinners and Saints The Channel Den of Thieves

[@kane1ali1]

Way of the gun!!!!!

[@YoungOnAirsoft2000]

Yo Guys you are true inspiration! I'm watching almost every your KZbin video out there! Basically you and Garand inspired me to make my own KZbin stuff :D Thank you guys for everything you making amazing job!

[@dirty-civilian]

Thanks man!

[@operator001]

Arma 3 is the way to go for milsim operations. There are some good videos out there of people playing out operations with everyone being a player.

[@deangullberry5148]

After "A Handful of Hard Men", I recommend Magic Mike....

[@Nottherealalex]

Tarkov does NVG gameplay pretty good, the dual tubes you can see the grain, they’re white phos, and you don’t have full FOV.

[@dirty-civilian]

Unfortunately, it's riddled with hackers, which has been beyond proven at this point. Sad really, because we loved that game.

[@harmandeepsingh6598]

Heavily modified Arma3 is the best game in the world. From medical to 9line etc.

[@Iraia_Roberts]

3:48 Damm NVGs gave me tunnel vision 😢

[@rednecksniper4715]

Y’all need to try Ground Branch, Ready or Not, Squad and Hell Let Loose if you want realism HLL is WW2 though

[@NicholasJonesCreative]

Ready or Not is the best

[@dirty-civilian]

All great games. Love them.

[@lucion511]

Enjoyed the Rhodesian brushstroke story 😂. Beautiful. I love it when based people play the woke game and win because the liberal left doesn't know history. In HEAT, those Colt Commandos with lightweight barrels would've melted those handguards with the amount of full auto they were spitting. 😮

[@TRAPSQUAD187]

Hey man just checking in love the content you guys make thanks a bunch. United we stand together we fall

[@musician445]

Was wondering if Drew was gonna end up FEELING that wasp rolling up behind him lol. Glad that it didn't. l

[@CHOPPASLUGBM]

I collect prelock smith snub revolvers because of my obsession with the old mafia movies lol.

[@mathiasgriffe9646]

Can we talk about "coeurs noirs". It's a french show about french specials forces. It's very very realistic and all is very "true" in it

[@alexiO21100]

Y"all drinking moonshine? Great episode again btw

[@____-_____]

Terminal list and Echo 3 are great

[@katsuragi9689]

Echo 3 is pozzed though.

[@loarmistead]

Yep, in Zimbabwe everyone is worse off, but at least they're equal now.

[@Gildragil70]

you guys play ARMA 3? because with mods that's about as close as you can get to "real life" in a game when it comes to kit, guns and the like. plus it's a fun way to work on comms and communications between sqaudmates/group.

[@rednecksniper4715]

I really liked Olympus has fallen thank you very much

[@jcoolhand5]

Dude... You mentioned American Sniper. Of course the story and the acting portrayed the Chris Kyle story well. Just couldn't handle the "over emphasis" on the recoil when they shot any of the rifles. Especially the M4's... It was ridiculous and totally took me out of the story. As big as Bradly Cooper got for that movie he lets an M4 move his entire upper body when he fires it semi auto? Lone Survivor on the other hand is one of the only movies that has ever gotten the sound of a suppressed AR platforms correct. The gun play was pretty exceptional in it and 13 hours. Only issue in 13 hours was Eotech reticles will also be green when passive aiming under nods. Not red on a green background. Lol

[@bthegawd8113]

Games that get gunplay right with correct nvg experiences is Escape From Tarkov and STALKER Gamma

[@SmithandWessonBlazer]

Ground Branch will be your game

[@IndiaEight5]

Joke's on you, because hi-cut helmets worn without earpros ever since I've seen them on TV or movies.

[@scuzz6818]

That allegiance gold website is really sketchy. Id be careful with them.

[@mcal9320]

For me its the plate carriers (in movies) with no plates...🙄. I get that wearing plates would be difficult for the actors. But at least throw in some foam or something to give it form.

[@dirty-civilian]

Amen. We consulted on a short film a few months back and trained the actors with all real setups and one of the comments we got from them when production wrapped was about how surprised they were at how heavy and difficult it is to wear all this stuff even for a full day. They had cramps, some blisters, and other aches that they never had just wearing the kit without plates and fake guns. Pretty wild.

[@baileyosborn8724]

Where can someone buy the stuff he makes??

[@Oramj]

in terms of games, 2019 was pretty good with the earpro shit, hell the game was really good entirely in the looks department, then mwii just decided everyones gonna wear inside the ear earpro, for some reason. and everyone else just isnt gonna wear earpro.

[@Ryan-cv9me]

Can we talk about Socom Combined Assault for a second.

[@austinallen8566]

Is Josh rocking a Burton?!

[@dirty-civilian]

Good eye man! Yea!

[@connortomlinson9265]

I can't even enjoy most action movies anymore because of the lack of firearm knowledge. When I see jack ryan racking the slide of a pistol 6 times I physically recoil

[@MunitionsDudTester]

Oh no, not the gold advertisers xD

[@seanwhite304]

You due realize in movie Heat you are referring to is Brit SAS Operators

[@davidsirmons]

Whatever happened to Odd Job?

[@JVDM1076]

14:10 literally sicario

[@ComfortsSpecter]

People Need True Examples to Truly Learn True Reality People Will Believe Very Stupid Concepts If They’re Given to Them and Presented as True

[@loarmistead]

The Rock *IS* a James Bond movie.

[@tonydijock151]

Real good if not best tv show with tactics was strike back not the first season that was in uk but the second first season in US then I believe it went 5 season now it’s shit when it got taken over with new cast and production

[@ShadowWallaceyt]

Getting it right doesn't matter ALL the time. It matters how fun the experience is for that person. Everyone has different likes taste and nip picky tolerance for realism. If the media your watching or playing isn't taking it seriously neither should you. But if it is taking it so seriously and you can easily find the flaws that's understandable. Majority of media out there are trying to target a mass audiences. Which are mostly normies. Who consume a lot a spend a lot. Not try hard nerds who can't function without nitpicking everything.

[@CraftySasquatch]

The power of Hollywood has subtle ways to completely change humanities reality by those subtle fock ups y'all discussed. Art creating reality.

[@AtomkeySinclair]

Yawn... sunshine.. wildlife abounding beautiful morning coffee and a new video.

[@ryang8040]

If you think Daniel Craig is the best James Bond, you don't know James Bond.

[@RekzysTheTitan]

omg i've been saying the same thing about helmets for ages. it makes no sense not to have ear pro, especially when you're running Scar17's inside buildings