Realms of the Haunting - ADG Episode 277

[@Disthron]

16:59 These are actually pretty standard for first-person control schemes of the time. I just installed Duke 3D again last night and this layout is the default, it's also the default for the original Doom. I remember using the home and end keys to aim at high switches in Duke 3D before I learned about the mouse and keyboard setup. The build engine was actually pretty progressive for the time as it actually allowed you to change the control scheme where many games did not. Remember that the player was expected to use Ctrl and space to shoot and open doors/interact. So that's why the jump and crouch commands are placed where they are. You're also expected to move your hand around the keyboard as needed.

[@antzpantz]

Yup, this. Too much time dedicated to a fairly common control system apart from a couple of oddities.

[@Slash0mega]

haven't watched the video yet, but i will point out that doom was build with a mouse in mind, slightly different than modern controls but still there.

[@axtrifonov]

But Doom and Duke can be played without mouse while this game requires you to use mouse (with third hand maybe)

[@Disthron]

@@axtrifonov Naw, back in those days it was expected that you would move your hands around. Like if you were using the Doom controls as your main you would switch one hand to the mouse when you needed to use it, or if you were maining with the mouse, you would move your keyboard hand around to use the different functions. It's just an old school way of thinking that was mainstream at the time. Also, as I've pointed out, they did rectify this oversight with a patch very soon after release.

[@Painocus]

@@Slash0mega: Doom's mouse controls are so clunky I'm not even sure they were even intended for a regular ball mouse, but rather for a trackball.

[@DieWeltIstSchlecht]

One of my favourite games of all time! Yes, the graphics are dated, the controls sluggish, but the atmosphere is creepy and the story pretty captivating. I remember fondly the green gardens and the temple where I must not make a tiny sound or it's my doom! Great!

[@Michael-im5mq]

The graphics still look good!

[@KitsuneZeta]

There are two let's plays for this game I've watched: Kikoskia's Let's Play (the latter one - he's done it twice) and SuperGreatFriend's Let's Play (who had an... interesting solution to the whole controls thing that also allowed him to play basically the entirety of it with a gamepad. Yes, seriously, he used a gamepad.) I actually remember the demo version for this game would actually kill you at a very specific point - specifically, trying to leave the throne room after Adam is branded by sitting in the throne. One very specific moment WILL punish players that rely on Easy Adventure Mode and happen to have the wrong item in their inventory - At one point, you examine a red gargoyle, and one of the items that can be used on it is a blue crystal. If the blue crystal is in your inventory and the item currently equipped isn't usable on the red gargoyle, the game will, without fail, equip the blue crystal. Using the blue crystal on the gargoyle triggers a trap.

[@Disthron]

This is hands down one of my all-time favorite games and after applying the patch to set up a more modern control scheme most of that clunkiness just goes away, as the underlying engine is pretty good. I also really enjoyed both the story and the lore. If your a fan of something like SCP or Controle, you should probably give this a try.

[@goopah]

@Drumslav Czechisenko Came here to post exactly this. You nailed it. The atmosphere for me was the thing that kept pushing me forward. I was determined to complete this game because I loved it so much, but never did finish it. I got to Chapter 16 and then got badly confused or lost, with no idea of where I was supposed to go, or what I was supposed to do next. And the printed walkthroughs of the day were too convoluted to be much help, so I finally just quit. Giving up on this game has been one of my all-time gaming regrets. I loved the artwork and level design, even though I was confused by that level design.

[@KayX291]

Useful tip regarding the mouse: Hold down both left and right mouse buttons and let go the left one whilestill holding down the right one, you will have a mouse look enabled all the time until ya let go the RMB.

[@gregwtmtno5437]

The last ADG of the year is the official start of the holiday season in my book!

[@BSzili]

I really liked this game despite the clunky controls, I can't believe I managed to beat it. Its atmosphere felt similar to Undying, but the gameplay was closer to adventure games. The only part that drove me absolutely nuts was the Alien-esque brain maze.

[@BeyondTheScanlines]

Ouch. For those controls. It's interesting with the evolution from Normality (where I think it "worked" better, at least from pacing), but for something where there's a bit more "action", probably not. At least there was that remapping patch - a shame that's *not* part of the digital releases :(

[@axtrifonov]

Interesting engine. It had dynamic (maybe even per-pixel) lighting in 90s without hardware acceleration.

[@eleanorburns8686]

One of my favourite DOS games. Perhaps not as technically impressive as Tomb Raider or as deep as Daggerfall, but wonderfully imaginative, story-driven, and eerie (although ironically, when you finally get to Hell, it's about the least scary of the realms, more reminiscent of "Crystal Maze" than Dante).

[@Hoshi82]

15:30 I never had problems with the controls. Not back then and not now. They aren't that terrible. Strafing is unnecessary in this game and maybe since I am a left handed player it never bothered me. Still one of my fondest game memories and still playing it now and then.

[@Optimus6128]

What a hidden gem, I finished it long time ago in Dosbox. Maybe I'll try to play it again on my retro DOS PCs. I like these hidden gems that are not particularly known compared to other famouse DOS games, but have some unique qualities you end up discovering oneday. This one is a mix of first person and adventure game and the atmosphere (where the limited graphics/colors might be adding too) is amazing. You end up from the haunted house to the otherwordly scenes, there is something about it that made me want to go through it despite the awkward controls (last underrated game that somehow hooked me to finish despite the weird controls was Jurassic Park - Tresspasser)

[@summerlaverdure]

YESSSSS so glad you covered this ^O^ love this game

[@FluffyFractalshard]

wow, this game looks kinda awesome! the lighting and atmosphere really has something to offer 3:40

[@Disthron]

Also, I have to say, I didn't have an issue with the right click to mouse aim controles. What version of the game were you using. The last time I played it I've been using the GOG version.

[@karnak327]

In the video he states that he's using the GOG version.

[@Disthron]

@@karnak327 True, I think I wrote that comment before he says this.

[@bladerunner2017]

Yay! Been waiting for this one for ages. I remember you mentioning in an old video that you'd probably get around to it eventually. I almost emailed you not long ago to remind you. 😁

[@Christopher-N]

(16:47) Some of the controls sound similar to _Blood_ ('a' and 'z' being jump and duck respectively), while others don't ('' being strife, rather than the 'alt' key + arrow in the direction you want to you). I have a similar issue with the Caps Lock key (CLon=run, CLoff=run, CLon again=run off, CLoff again=run off), but I've only pressed it by accident. I won't go into all the keys, but some make sense to me, while others don't.

[@Christopher-N]

NOTE: I've never got to play _Blood_ on original hardware, so I don't know if that Caps Lock cycling is emulation related, or if it has a special purpose that _Doom_ and _Rise of the Triad_ didn't make use of.

[@Pixelmusement]

The controls feel like they didn't really pay attention to their comfort and instead just copied what was already established as defaults while shoehorning in the extra keys they needed, completely oblivious to the fact that most people changed those defaults in older first person games. :P

[@aaronmarko]

This might seem like a stupid question but where are you pulling up prices for boxed copies? Is it just Ebay or are there specific sites you're looking at where they're selling old DOS games online?

[@Pixelmusement]

I check eBay first, both active and sold listings, and resort to various other sites following like the PriceCharting site if I have trouble finding numbers which make sense. However, in the case of this game, there were TONS of copies for sale on eBay and plenty of sold listings which all gives a good idea of what the prices are presently like vs. what they SHOULD be like, at least, at the time of making the video. :B

[@aaronmarko]

@@Pixelmusement yeah for sure. I've just been watching you for years and never quite understood where you pulled your numbers from. Not that it's a big deal. I was just curious

[@StephenStrangways]

If you have the retail CD version and want to install it so you don't have to swap discs: The following guide has been compiled by Tom Spencer (Spee2k8) Make a folder called "hd" in the same emulated hard disk that Virtual PC is using for ROTH.... e.g if "C:\INTRPLAY\ROTH" so put hd in as "e:\INTRPLAY\hd" Copy the entire contents of CD1 to the "hd" folder Then move onto CD2, 3 and 4 (CD's 2, 3 and 4 have the same folders and some of the same files as CD1) ignore everything on these disks apart from the GDV folder (this contains all the movie files) copy the contents of each GDV folder from 2, 3 and 4 into the hd folder's GDV folder, you will be asked if you want to replace "TUNNWARP.GDV" for each disk just say no as its already in GDV from CD1. Go to the hd folder you have made and open up the DATA folder, then open "FILELIST.TXT" in notepad, skip past DISK1's list and goto "DISK2". Remove the lines in DISK2's list that say "dbase300.dat" , "dbase500.dat" and "tunnwarp.gdv". Do the same for DISK's 3 and 4 list's. Please be sure you do not have any repeating file names throughout the entire file! (I used notepad's find and replace function and just replaced with a space then just took out the blank lines afterwards). Do make sure you have ONE and only one of each of the following in the file "dbase300.dat" , "dbase500.dat" and "tunnwarp.gdv". Then remove the words, "DISK2={", "DISK3={" and "DISK4={", also make sure you remove the closing "}" for each disk apart from the very last one at the end of the list. You should now have a long continuous list of files starting with "DISK1={" and ending in "}" (i.e there should only be one "{" at the beginning next to "DISK1=" and one "}" at the end of the list, in the entire file). Make sure you save this file using notepad (File -> Save). Almost done.... Now go into the ROTH folder that was installed while setting up the game (that might be "C:\INTRPLAY\ROTH"). Open up "CONFIG.INI" in notepad and change "SourcePath" from "D:\" to "C:\INTRPLAY\hd". Click file and save in notepad and close the file. That should be it you should now be able to play ROTH and not have a CD swap in sight

[@Disthron]

I think this is a predecessor to things like Soma or Gone Home. More in that it's a First-Person adventure game with some fighting thrown in. Call of Cthulu also kind of falls into this category. Kind of in-between an immersive sim and a straight-up adventure title.

[@reginaldcz6332]

I see that somebody there didn't play any Doom engine game... As Hexen and Heretic, the games which I did play at that time, had almost same controls as this one. So I never had problems with it. Especially as I could play it either at the FPS-adventure hybrid with the game's mouse and keyboard controls (keyboard used for movement/camera looking up and down and mouse for examining stuff and attacking enemies). And in case of intense fight I just switched to keyboard and played it like a Doom engine game. That's the thing which I have missed when I was playing System Shock without the community ports or later the remastered version, as there you need to control everything (aside of movement) by mouse - even camera looking up and down and crouching - there is an icon which you need to click at. Which is for me much worse and more annoying. Also for Gog it's typical to remove important files for setup from the games' folders. Same thing happened with the Ultima Underworld's Gog's version, where the sound is completely broken (everything sounds like musical instruments, even sounds like hitting enemy, walking, etc.). And you can't change them normally as the game's setup file was removed. So you need by some guide on Gog forums to change some text file. I really wonder too who in the Gog team see it as great idea to break the game's sound and then remove the only file which would allow us to fix it without having to mess with the non understandable text files.

[@Pixelmusement]

Uh... no, this game does not have Doom-style controls. There's some similarities, but not enough that you can play this like Doom, especially given how much you have to do with the mouse. Again though, there was a patch you could use to make it possible to adjust the controls, so again, it's only really an issue without that patch. And as for System Shock, the keyboard controls in the original System Shock are actually surprisingly decent. You had the mouse-movement controls yes, but realistically, no one used them. The community patches following for System Shock simply made the game play more like a modern FPS and while that kind of works, a main mechanic in System Shock is leaning around corners to take out enemies, something that's a lot harder to do with traditional FPS controls. :P

[@StephanS]

This game reminds me of Normality and Dark Project...

[@alsatusmd1A13]

A special mode you have to go into to run…(what) were they thinking when they designed these controls?

[@alsatusmd1A13]

@Lassi Kinnunen thanks, but I wasn’t trying to be serious.

[@CYON4D]

I remember checking this game out a few years later and I think the game is clunky but looks really good. Oozes with that 90s mood. I would give it another go. Great review by the way.

[@Balc0ra]

I love this game. I got this in 97. I still have that copy, and the steam version. This game was so fun back in the day, not horror-like. But a rather good RPG like FPS "for me anyway". As there was nothing like it. Replayed it last about a year ago. Still loved it.

[@lostsanityreturned]

Finnnnnalllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy~~~~!!!! seriously, when you first said you would cover this I was excited, that was years ago :)

[@Pixelmusement]

Admittedly, I am only physically able to cover so many games in a year... ^_^;

[@lostsanityreturned]

@@Pixelmusement Unacceptable my dude, become a cyborg video making god of youtube or else ;) :P It was nice to see the game covered though, it really is a bit of an oddity. Pretty darn long too, I agree with your evaluation of it regarding recommendation.

[@sirlight-ljij]

Why did people set up those weird restrictions on mouselook instead of it being a simple toggle? I mean, nowadays it is so obvious that you need mouse to be able to look it is hard to imagine somebody implementing the mechanic and not thinking "hmm, this is convenient, maybe it should be the default"

[@Pixelmusement]

The mid-90s was the time of transition where PC game devs were starting to realize what was possible and doable with controls. The controls here feel like they were simply mimicking old control schemes for first-person games while shoehorning in the extra keys they needed, without realizing MOST people edited those defaults. :P

[@kizmetmars]

I remember borrowing this game off a friend and being amazed it came on 4 CD-ROMs. Never finished it though. Such a weird game. The shooting was a main part of it but, was badly implemented. The puzzles where ok. However, the whole game is a confusing labyrinth. Good horror for the time.

[@kizmetmars]

I've watched Ross's video on this too. I agree with most of what he said too and yes, definitely worth a watch. I noted that he and probably you didn't finish it either? I only know because I watched Kikoskia's 2008 let's play, twice and remember the hell stage being never ending and near impossible item hunting. Loved the video btw. Hope you enjoy you time away from youtube!

[@Pixelmusement]

Ross finished the game; he shows the ending in his video. I got about halfway through and ran out of time to go any further. :P

[@kizmetmars]

@@Pixelmusement It's an overly long game for what it is. I certainly didn't even get half way 15 years ago. They needed to trim a lot of the fat from this game to make it more enjoyable. Certainly commendable that they tried to make this game into an epic. But, the design just wasn't backing it up.

[@zovni]

Call of cthulhu by way of system shock. This one is awesome. Have a boxed copy myself and plenty of good memories of it.

[@Disthron]

Overall, a really cool review. I'm sorry you didn't find out about the patch until after playing it. Even though I grew up playing this game I still use it, and your comments about the mouse controls make me wonder if that is fixed in the patch also.

[@NathanLJustice]

Damn! This one brings me back!!

[@marcsm2008]

While this game isn't bad, I never had the patience to beat it. The first few areas are great, but eventually the game gets SO annoying, I just stopped playing. That hedge maze area, for example, is HORRIBLE, and you go through it twice... I usually don't mind long games, but I think this game went on for too long.

[@negirno]

I kind of wish that indie developers would adopt this mid-to-late nineties 256 color FMV aesthetic in their games. The 8 and 16 bit nostalgia is great and all, but it's a bit cliche by now.

[@Pixelmusement]

Some indies are aiming for late 90s early 2000s retro, but yeah, most aim for the 8-bit and 16-bit era, not the 32-bit era. :P

[@ImperatorZed]

This reminds me of Normality!

[@Pixelmusement]

It should. Same developer, updated engine. ;)

[@lordterra1377]

The games pixel art is incredible. When I first fired the game up I thought it was rendered cutscene. I was shocked when I moved the mouse and realized I was already in game. The attention to small details with lights and shadowing is incredible on this old game.

[@Michael-im5mq]

@@lordterra1377 It's really amazing how a 3D perspective game ages much better when it uses sprites for details and polygons for more basic objects. Creates a best of both worlds and it ends up aging much better than games like Quake

[@lordterra1377]

@@Michael-im5mq I couldn't agree more. While Quake was cutting edge it was more of a Tech demo for a new game engine. Realms of the Haunting was a hybrid game, with many elements far ahead of it's time. Well crafted sprites and pixel art seem like they will never go out of fashion. They still manage to impress me today.

[@marsted2]

It reminds me of the star trek generations pc game

[@Bartman3010]

Wait, this control scheme is the default for Duke Nukem 3D.

[@Pixelmusement]

But even with the original release of Duke 3D you could change the controls however you wanted and the mouse controls weren't obtuse. Without the later patch, the controls in this game are completely non-configurable save for a single setting which lets you flip what the mouse buttons do. :P

[@Disthron]

@@Pixelmusement They fixed this for the US release, but most of the places you can get it online use the original European release. That's what the patch is from.

[@fake12396]

using caps lock as part of the control scheme? what were they thinking?? i dig the art style though

[@Christopher-N]

_Doom,_ _Rise of the Triad,_ and _Blood_ make use of the Caps Lock key, but I've never used it much myself. Anytime I've pushed it was by accident. I do have an issue with the Caps Lock key in _Blood,_ but that could be a emulation error, as I only have to push it once for Run on/off in the first two games, but twice for _Blood,_ though to be fair, I never got to play _Blood_ on original hardware, just emulation.

[@glitchedoom]

It's traditionally the Auto Run on/off key for most classic FPS games.

[@rory_o]

Ayy Interplay owns the rights to this? I got $50, that should get us most of the way for buying the rights for a remake.

[@Pixelmusement]

Interplay "owned" past-tense the rights to this. I believe they're now owned by Funbox who bought up a lot of the Gremlin Interactive properties if I'm not mistaken. :P

[@TreuloseTomate]

Welcome to Kris's Game Dungeon.

[@Pixelmusement]

I technically DID make a Game Dungeon video awhile back mimicking Ross' style to help drive some viewers his way when he was going through "Mold Hell" to put it mildly. :B

[@Lovuschka]

Classic!

[@ufkls]

How come you didn’t know a patch existed until after playing it? As others noted those controls were pretty standard back than. I even remember playing Quake without mouselook. I’m sad you spent 5 minutes talking about the obviously shitty controls a) a lot of other games had as well and b) were configurable after the patch. You could have used that time to talk about the shitty physics and the jump puzzles later in the game instead.:) I have fond memories of this game as well. The labyrinthian house that was used as a hub, where parts would open up as the story progressed and those weird realms one discovered later on. Like the garden of gods where no weapons were allowed. Seemed like a large and rich story driven game for it’s time, in comparison to e.g. stonekeep .

[@giwake]

Called it! :) It's a very nice game. Control scheme is WAYY too weird for my tastes at all.