"Reasonable Cheating" & Ultimate Efficiency: Chopin Etude op.10 No.2

Chopin Etude op.10 No.2 needs a great deal of technical optimization. It's not enough just to be able to reach the end, it should be played with ease and elegance in order to make a truly positive impression.
In this extensive video I will introduce you to the most vital efficiency concepts and learning methods.
00:13 "reasonable cheating" controversy (see also my UPD statement below)
06:13 alternative fingering
08:48 efficiency concept I: rotation
11:36 efficiency concept II: in- and out- movements
13:22 making crescendo: quick tip
14:12 some interpretation advice
15:06 Learning strategies and methods
19:17 what this piece has in common with surfing??
UPD: Some individuals took personal offense at the notion of redistributing material between hands to such an extent that I found it necessary to prohibit a couple of them who displayed arrogance. While I appreciate the concept of 'performer's honesty,' which is essential when discussing the artistic auditory outcome, I believe it to be overly simplistic when applied to a performer's technical "toolbox," in my personal opinion. In fact, many top-level performers, including technical virtuosos like Marc-André Hamelin, regularly adjust the distribution of elements between their hands to suit their needs in most pieces, which helps save valuable practice time.
Even if you were to transfer a few notes to the left hand in this particular etude, it remains an exceedingly challenging piece. Additionally, it's worth considering that when comparing different editions of various piano compositions regularly, you will notice that they often distribute layers differently. Some even provide suggestions for such redistribution because it is INDEED A COMMON PRACTICE among truly professional pianists. For instance, the Ekier Edition does incorporate such redistribution recommendations for a significant number of Chopin's compositions.
Furthermore, for those who are particularly critical - have you taken into account the significant differences in the instruments for which these pieces were originally composed? Have you ever attempted to play on an Erard or Pleyel piano constructed before 1840? Do you genuinely believe that Chopin, renowned for his physiologically pleasing and anti-virtuoso approach to playing, would have ever composed something as technically challenging as it appears on a modern piano?
Hence, if you believe that spending four weeks on a piece instead of two makes you a better pianist, you may be a victim of your pointless prejudices, and limit your repertoire unnecessarily. By expressing my viewpoint here, I am not inclined to engage further with comments on this matter.
However please keep in mind that all these tips you’d have to adjust to your hands, so please treat this video as a thought-provoking material rather than a set of straightforward directions. Especially, I don’t expect that my own fingering that I share in this video would suit just any hands.
Check out my detailed tutorials on other etudes from this opus:
Op.10 No.1: • Quick Technique Optimi...
Op.10 No.4: • Masterclass on Piano P...
op.10 No.12: • Chopin "Revolutionary"...
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#chopin #etude #étude

[@AntarioPiano]

Oh wow, I'm learning this now and i didn't even think of moving some notes to the left hand to make it easier for the right. I'm glad youtube has been recommending your channel lately.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

That’s a revelation it does finally🤣 KZbin is tougher than any of etudes lol Thanks for commenting!

[@alfonsomaribona]

The surfing feeling and the ‘two times each note’ are just GREAT. Thank you, Maestro

[@xuexy222]

I learned so much from this video and thanks for the teaching!

[@vanewfies]

I do love your videos. You are really a great pianist and a great teacher, which is very rare! Your piano tecnique is the perfect conjunction between the great eastern european piano school and the utmost advanced american physiological piano teaching (Taubman-Golandsky). Thank you so much for your help here on KZbin. I hope to hear you in a live concert here in Italy.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks so much for such a kind feedback!

[@Ernesto7608]

I could not have said it better

[@PianothShaveck]

Very good video, I agree with pretty much everything you suggested.

[@remigiuszteda4140]

I am learning that piece at the moment, I will try to use your advices, they were great, I hope they will help me. We will see.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I hope so too!

[@ivarsandvik9838]

This is great, thanks

[@pianowithspencer88]

I just had to say thanks. Really interesting and there’s a reason I’ve always avoided this one. Think it’s time for a fresh look. Completely agree about redistributing notes being a sensible solution! 👏🏻 I’ll be looking for 10/1 now!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks! Happy to hear that it inspired you to get closer to it.

[@pianowithspencer88]

Denis, fo you think it’d be acceptable to lightly pedal the penultimate 2 bars, taking the left hand for the harmony? Pedalled well you can still hear the low A on the last chord! Is it too far? Ps.Love the Margulis recording you mention although the rubato is a touch too far to my taste today.

[@pianowithspencer88]

I should add- one could silently depress the low As on that final chord to help my suggestion. You’ve got me thinking!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

@PianoWithSpencer that's a real goal of any proper teaching - get people thinking! [I feel an accomplishment now haha]😊

[@Ernesto7608]

This is super clever! At the beginning of bar 18 avoiding in the right hand that ugly movement of the 5th finger under the 4th to reach the A and instead playing a 10th with the left and leaving the upper A for the left to sound as the 2nd harmonic of the lower A, ha ha!

[@w3sp]

Awesome video (the 10/1 one as well...my favourite interpretation of that one still belongs to Mei-Ting Sun, played in the same Chopin Competition 2010). Got any more etude videos in the pipeline? Which ones? As for this 10/2 video: I've never learned this etude beyond fiddling with the first few bars, but some of your fingering suggestions / hand redistributions are creative and interesting! Margulis interpretation is really great. I felt that Julian Zhi Chao Jia (Chopin Competition 2010 again) also brought out a few of those inner voices here and there, it was the first time I heard 'em...it was quite a wow effect :) PS: Your video production quality has also improved over the years!

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Thanks for the feedback and sharing your observations! I plan to do op.25/12 as well hopefully soon enough. Of course I’d love to do many others but the time is short and there are so many other pieces in the line. Yeah making a good quality production is kinda another job to learn, I am only on the way of course.

[@RolandHuettmann]

I eagerly followed the 2020/21 competition, and these etudes 10-1 and 10-2 were played of course. I think they shall be one of my next challenges. I still have to decide which one I like better. Even with Denis' instructions, I probably undervalue the time needed for practice...) He studied 10-1 being 13... I am ... ouch....

[@maultooga]

I'm currently learning this piece and I see a lot of people have their wrist slightly curved to help 3-4-5, im nto sure if that poor wrist technique or not. I found that moving into the keys on that nasty e major chord in bar 8 is helping out though thank you.

[@RolandHuettmann]

From my experience, not in this specific etude though, the wrist must allow natural gravitation to play it's role. The fingers follow. Suddenly, all seems to become much easier. I still relearn a lot.

[@myklkay]

What do you look mainly when you play it : right hand or left hand ? It seems that the right hand can find the notes pretty easily without looking but some spots are tricky and sometimes the left hand make some big jumps.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Usually I look somewhere in the middle with no focus on anything in particular, piano playing needs peripheral vision

[@greatmusicchannel8549]

I am in making process of this etude. Denis could you tell me how much time did you need from beginning to complete this etude ? does it need several month or one year?

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

I can’t say because I learned it in waves through a few years when I happened to have some free time. The time differs greatly for everyone, but I personally would definitely give it 1-2 months of daily practice, plus another 3-4 month of working on it sporadically to “ripe” it, in case you want play it on competitions or other very demanding occasions. I can easily imagine it will take 6 months for a regular bachelor student to be able to play it decently. The best option though, is when you learn it when you’re 12, and repeat every two years or so, so then by the time you’re 20+ it’ll be piece of cake which you can use and show-off any moment.

[@greatmusicchannel8549]

@@DenZhdanovPianist Thanks Denis for answer. I am 37 years old but had very serious hand problem. No one believed i solve this problem. Now i am free from hand tension but working to improve technique. Actually i have powerful fingers and fastness but i could not finish when i start playing(Virtuoso etude) Could you recommend me how can i plan my technical improvement? what would be good, to play several Czerny etudes and after play Chopin and Liszt Mazeppa, or start from the Chopin’s bit easier Etudes and step by step develope? p.s In one video, you told to have hand problem. When did you have? because i remember when you play in Tbilisi Piano Comp, attended in your Final tour(Suppose Rach 2 play) and i liked your performance so much. Your hand problem had before or after?

[@billligon4005]

If you want to play any of Scriabin - you need to do a lot of note-redistribution. So I do it a lot.

[@havokbtw5662]

I really don't understand how to play 3-4-5, do you have a tutorial on it?

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Could you specify what do you mean?

[@havokbtw5662]

@@DenZhdanovPianist I believe you made a video on the best fingering for the chromatic scale and you were talking about doing 3-4-5 there, and I am currently learning the etude in this video so I am asking if you can explain how to play 3-4-5.

[@havokbtw5662]

Like 3-4-5 fingering I guess is what you would call it

[@fromhl7619]

​@@havokbtw5662 the fingering for the chromatic scale up (starting on A) is 4-3-4-5-3-4-3-4-5-3-4-3-4... The chromatic scale down is different of course, it would be (starting on A) 4-3-4-3-5-4-3-4-3-5-4-3-4... But the fingering for the score is very different from these ones, be careful with the fingering, with a bad one you could injure your hand.

[@yahyamhirsi]

Are you actually doing masterclasses on all 24 Etudes? :o

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Unfortunately no! That would need all my time for quite a while…

[@yahyamhirsi]

@@DenZhdanovPianist I asked that because I am working on learning all 24 Chopin Etudes and I saw you uploaded 2 masterclasses on the first 2 ones! I hope you can find some time to provide such a series, because you obviously have a lot to teach! (I would even purchase your courses)

[@user-xo4od5sp4j]

I don't like that sliding business. Also this is an etude. We're supposed to master the technical difficulties in this work.

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Everyone has the right to do it the hard way, whatever unreasonable it is!🤞

[@efucosiche]

Chopin would have cut off your left thumb and said, 'This is a study for the 3,4,5 right hand fingerings. Your tricks with your left hand are making me very disappointed 😂

[@DenZhdanovPianist]

Not likely, because musicians of that time treated music texture with far less cliché and "it must be so" attitude than today. But even if yes, it would take me an effort not to laugh at such criticism coming from a person who couldn't achieve a powerful sound even on the lighter instruments of the time, and hardly ever performed because they were weak and ill. It is certainly not for Chopin to judge modern pianistic virtuoso standards. What he could however judge fair enough, is the lack of creativity, treating his etudes as primarily pieces for developing technique, and a too formal perception of musical text which are common nowadays.

[@efucosiche]

Obviously I was ironic about my comment. I found this tutorial and yours suggestions very cleaver and unusual. And your way to teach is impressive and at very high level. I started study this etude a few weeks ago and I really hope to finish better with all your tips (I'm personally not agree with all yours tricks but a lot of it i found it extremely useful!). Thanks to share your talent to all of us ❤ anyway i found this etude not so hard as expected 🤞😉

[@SpontaneityJD]

Certainly not for Chopin to judge? And you would laugh at him? 😮 Why so disrespectful. He composed the damn piece. Bozhe moy....​@@DenZhdanovPianist

[@fromhl7619]

​@@efucosichethis study is surprisingly the fastest to learn of all opus 10 that I've learned yet. It took me 2 months just to put together torrent, but in two days I've almost memorized 3/4 of this etude and can play at half speed the right hand alone. The right hand is very easy too. Honestly the only thing that upsets me is a couple chords with the right hand on bar 20 and 22 beat 3. I will have to transform those octave into a playable thing 😢

[@dreadjoker10]

didn't know you could cheat. It's interesting how much this piece has been studied I guess. Not as opposed to it as other ppl here but do think the music isn't that pretty so you kinda might as well do it the hard way. If you're playing this at competition, the judges will likely notice since it is so well known. Also I'm worried some of your fingering suggestions although they work at bpm 144, to perform at 144, top pianists will take it up to 160 and some fingerings don't seem feasible imo. So maybe everyone should take advice with caution. Just 2 cents, sorry for disagreeing c: otherwise good suggestions.

[@fromhl7619]

Tbh I disagree with most fingerings in this video, although they are appreciated and this video gives other tips that are helpful as well.

[@Sloimer]

Given that this is an “Exercise”, isn’t the brutal difficulty the whole point? To bring up independence between 1/2 and 3/4/5?