How Progressives Ruined San Francisco: Michael Shellenberger

[@simonbagel]

"If you subsidize something you get more of it." This should be printed on the living room wall in the homes of all progressives. Better than "Live, Laugh, Love."

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

I'm moderately progressive and I would never decorate my house with words on the wall. It's paintings or nothing.

[@willpower3317]

If you tax something, you get less of it.

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

@Vegan Zombie they need utilities and supplies, being a homesteader is more expensive than living in the city even if the land itself is cheaper. I doubt that homeless people are worried about entertainment and high-end stores.

[@benjaminkesler5245]

​@Col Who Partially true. but most land related taxes are based on its use. There are plenty of cases where people will chose to let farmland go fallow rather then pay a burdensome tax.

[@imonlyamanandiwilldiesomed4406]

@@willpower3317 Yeah, how you gonna tax the homeless drug addicts?

[@jasminecrandall2262]

The biggest problem I have with progressivism is the doubling down amidst obvious failures. Born and raised in the SF Bay Area, I’ve been gone for many years. The contrast from then and now is quite shocking. Not just SF, but the Portland and Seattle area also. It’s not working. Admitting failure is the stepping stone to success.

[@JJSmalls]

Admitting failure probably doesn't lead to re-election. What makes great talking points though is when politicians mention feel-good empty causes, like housing equity, without mention about addressing addiction. Or just flip-flop like SF's mayor when it's now convenient to mention law enforcement to "combat" rise in crime.

[@johnslugger]

The biggest problem I have with progressivism is that it's run by the richest people on the planet. You can't have the RICH making honest laws to help the poor and so far all I have seen is that the RICH are forcing the working class to pay for 99% of all the bills. Now Progressivism run by the poor and working classes is the only honest way to do it. We need to get rich Bastards like George Soros out of the influence of the legislation of TAX LAWS!!! Expect the middle-class to suffer as long as rich Liberals are writing all the tax laws.

[@mterveen1]

Why admit failure when you can either A.) collectively put your head in the sand and use big tech and Hollywood to assist in this(looking at Seth Rogan who thinks it’s just fine to have his stuff stolen from his car), or B.) blame the people you’re trying to help for not doing their part.

[@sambo9584]

Politicians will always say they want to resolve the problem for political gain, but if they DO RESOLVE it, there is no longer a problem that they can use to get re-elected. Politicians NEED problems to stay in power, and this one pulls on the emotional strings of their voters that they can harvest their votes with.

[@johnslugger]

@@mterveen1 Seth Rogan's wet-dream is that the USSR was back in business.

[@freebirdjackson5511]

Progressives appear to have a naive view of human nature. I was one back in the early 80s and worked with homeless in LA. They were people with substance abuse and or mental health issues. I realized quickly that constant handouts without any accountability did not work and exacerbated the problem. The sad fact is that people running big cities expect people to behave like they would if they suddenly became homeless. Most responsible people who become homeless find a way to get out of that situation. Most long term homeless are drug addicts who are willing stay on the streets and have “worn family and friends out.” A majority of them refuse sustained treatment…and they live in big cities that enable their behavior.

[@Mrbfgray]

Excellent points well stated. Thanks for the experiencial perspective.

[@timothysatyr6674]

A little simplistic. There is a level of truth to it but it's missing some major factors. The biggest factor is frontal lobe damage caused by trauma. Most long term homelessness is really a cognitive issues. Frontal lobe damage, from physical or psychological trauma is quite common. Long term Financial stress, and abuse causes brain damage. It can happen to anyone, and it usually happens to those that take on trauma from a young age. Abuse and neglect survivors etc. It's often not a "strong willed" vs "weak willed" factor. In many cases it's wether or not someone was healed/allowed to heal After taking damage. Drug addiction is usually a means to self medicate. Not saying it makes it ok, but most people are running to chemicals because in the beginning it will affect the "outer portions" of the brain. Frontal lobe being one of those regions. So it may help briefly, but after habit/tolerance is developed it causes chaos in the central portion of the brain. They will keep using because of mental and physical dependency obviously but also because they may be subconsciously looking for the qualities of that chemical that were once minutely helpful. That's why

[@freebirdjackson5511]

@@timothysatyr6674 these issues have always existed in most populations for centuries, however, we’ve seen a ridiculous increase in the rate of homelessness throughout some of our major cities. I think providing people with treatment, structure, incentives and accountability is a step in the right direction. I’m not judging these people, I’m critical of the system that allows them to exist in a perpetual state of homelessness.What would you propose?

[@timothysatyr6674]

​@@freebirdjackson5511 Homelessness has existed for thousands of years. I remember as a kid learning about how Akhenaten wanted to end homelessness by building large shelters across egypt (literally just stone or mud shelters if I was understanding correctly) Just thought that was kind of neat, that doesnt really make any sort of point. Back to your question. I have more questions and observations than I do answers. To save on time. Multivariant problems have to have multiple answers. I want to focus on the mental health aspect. As well as the folks that are so broken they cannot in their current state function. I would also argue that a good majority of our mental health issues can be tied to economics in some way. Constant stress is the mind killer. Destroy the mind, the body usually follows. At the end of the day people took too much damage and they are in a state of degradation. Like a car. Either its overworked and unmaintained or its underworked after extended stagnation and bound up. In most cases punishing the car will not help. In its most simplistic form I think that access to mental health and medical could be a game changer in understanding, as well as figuring out how to treat different types of degradation. When addiction is treated as a medical problem, you tend to get better results. Most folks are self medicating because they have fewer avenues Wages have been driven down for 40 + years while goods services and property keeps growing in cost. We are experiencing many of the issues that we experienced during the great depression. Alot of the suffering that people experience today is simply motivated by greed. We have a country that has different rules for different classes. Most corporations are incentivized to underpay workers as their labor is subsidized through public assistance. The wealth class attain assistance on so many other government and societal levels as well. So its socialism for the rich, cutthroat capitalism for the poor. That is one major factor to poverty and homelessness as a whole.

[@hidesbehindpseudonym1920]

@@freebirdjackson5511 these issues have existed in most populations for centuries, and in previous centuries the individuals affected by those issues died younger at a much higher rate than they do today.

[@cspdx11]

As a former Portland resident its getting to the point the younger people in the progressive cities are thinking a drug infested city is the norm. They know nothing else

[@omarei]

You live in the USA, and the internet means you have no excuse to have tunnel vision ergo live in squalor if you don't need to be.

[@mercurialshift5793]

Maybe you should have more resources in other cities so they don’t all swarm to the same places. It is affecting every city though. In Canada as well. It’s an opiate crisis for a reason and Fentanyl has made it way worse. It’s exacerbated by the economy and the high cost of living as well as the barely liveable wages. They swarm to places that ARE addressing the problem because they can’t get help in other places. Plus it’s warm in Portland.

[@mercurialshift5793]

@@omareiWhat are you saying and how does it address their comment? You think people don’t live in poverty in the US? Or that they choose to live in poverty?

[@cmc5394oparva]

@@mercurialshift5793 "Maybe you should have more resources in other cities so they don’t all swarm to the same places"--These problems ARE the problems of the city. A high-trust, socially functional environment simply cannot exist in a modern American city. Too many people thinking they deserve Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism simply for being born, they're being "oppressed" if they don't get it, and blaming everyone but themselves.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

I was homeless for 28-35 years. At 55 I have my own apartment and a good job. I had to work very hard to achieve this. And it was never a government program that helped me. NEVER. It took some jail time, a lot of jail time. Over and over again. But I was required to take a behavioral therapy group class. I was already ten years into my homelessness recovery, but still barely housed. Housed because I had a job and a couple friends that opened their home to me. It isnt something you can understand if you have never lived it. The solutions come from people WHO HAVE AN ACADEMIC UNDERSTANDING. NO REAL WORLD UNDERSTANDING, REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPEND WITH HOMELESS. YOU STILL GO HOME TO A NICE HOUSE WITH PEOPLE WHO LOVE YOU. YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE MINDSET, WHICH IS WHY YOU CONTINUE TO FAIL. I can prove everything I have said. I wish people like you would listen to people like me.... It would seriously help you folks understand what you need to do.

[@klondike99]

So, you decided PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is the right choice.

[@s.flanders]

Can you expand on what needs to be done? Was it the forced group therapy that helped you turn things around?

[@Cacowninja]

@@klondike99 And voluntary help from others.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

@@s.flanders It wasnt forced. I sought it out. In 2006 I made a decision to get off the street. It required me to hitch hike to Colorado and turn myself in on an 11 year old felony drug warrent. Which I did. Since that time. I have been clean from meth. December 12 2006 is my clean date. I spent 18 months in community corrections, working and paying rent and fines, being responsible. I volunteered for that. I havent been a tweeker since. 15 years clean. Took 11 to finally get of the street for good. I have a good job I have been at for nearly three years. And my own place for literally the first time in my life and I am 55. It can be done. But nobody can do it for you. Enabling bad behaviour only begats bad behaviour.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

@@klondike99 Yeah, exactly.

[@CountArtha]

If you put 30 random people from Florida in charge of San Francisco, all this would be gone by the end of the month. They voted for this. This is what they wanted.

[@TOAOM123]

If you got 30 random floridians, 10 would be snowbirds and 15 would have just moved from la

[@CountArtha]

@@TOAOM123 Like most people, you seem to forget that North and Central Florida exist.

[@Eduardo-hg2bd]

People that voted blue should be kept on their blue paradise states they created.

[@TOAOM123]

@@CountArtha Well that wouldnt really be "random" now would it

[@Chalk89]

@@TOAOM123 It's also not random that you selected 30 people who aren't actually Floridians.

[@Marthastewart209.]

His book is so good. I am Portugal low crime and free drug use has been incorrectly represented in America. They are tough on crime and have strict rules to get help. They essentially force you into rehab and it works really well.

[@terryellis3970]

I wish we had that 'force into rehab' mentality here in Canada. It's common sense. There is no 'right' that should be 'given' to people who are out of their mind with mental illness. They need help; not rights. They all feel awful about their lives, their selves, the ruined relationships and unnecessary deaths. "Forced rehab" would help get them to the point where they could at least think straight. It's surprising that this common sense idea is not embraced everywhere. Even doctors in ICU with comatose patients decide to do the right thing and provide medical treatment when the person cannot decide for themselves.

[@gwho]

@@terryellis3970 too tiresome. i'd rather just off myself.

[@MattGPT-eh4cp]

I love how this progressive has pulled the curtain back on how progressive policies have caused most of the harm to these citys and homeless people. No surprise to every conservative person living.

[@k_tess]

Michael Shellenburger might seem a little "limp-wristed" to us on the right. But he means well and actually cares about people, so yeah, dude can actually be reasoned with.

[@TKUA11]

“DIE”versity destroyed California

[@dbarbour]

You had me right up to the point where you patted yourself on the back for being a conservative. Stop with the labels and the tribalism. Live by example, be the shining light, the Bible's city on a hill. And best of all, be fucking humble about it.

[@jacobw3652]

@@dbarbour I don't care if it's "tribalism" or not, most leftists supported these policies, conservatives, did not. You can take your humble and shove it up your ass, these policies have caused the loss of thousands of lives. This is just bad governance, and anyone who voted for these policy failures, should feel bad.

[@thomashahn631]

And conservative just destroy things on the state and national level.

[@ardentglazier2867]

As a 45+ year California resident nothing happening in SF and LA are surprises, so it's really sort of a 'rolleyes' at the SF mayor backing-and-filling over selective pieces of progressive policy that has been decades in the making. Unless these cities admit that a broad spectrum of their policies (not just on homelessness) need to be revised in the face of reality (not merely 'conservatively'), they will continue to make policy mistakes that waste time and taxpayer dollars at grave expense to life and livelihood. I'm not holding my breath, however. Most of these people are more interested in currying favor with like-minded progressives than actually solving problems.

[@JoJoJoker]

Progressivism never stops. That’s the issue. Yesterday is old. Today is old. The future is bold. The train. Never. Stops. Hell…Would you rather have a conservative household budget or a progressive disease?

[@somedandy7694]

They are the Anointed. Knowledge is invisible to them unless it comes from their fellow Anointed, for why should they bother with the ridiculous ramblings of the Uncredentialed?

[@TKUA11]

“Diversity” destroyed California. The melting pot was a lie and this diversity is why people can’t get along and can’t get ahead

[@btsnake]

@@TKUA11 forced diversity maybe, but the melting pot isn't a lie

[@jacobw3652]

@@btsnake Melting pot is 100% propaganda, the US has always had different cultures, but those different cultures have never mixed well. Hence, "white flight", "China/Korea town", "ghettos", etc.

[@stevenjones9310]

A great question I found myself plundering a lot. From a conversation I saw Jorden Peterson asks " we know when the right goes to far, but when does the left go to far?"

[@vandl107]

Plundering? Jorden? asks "

[@rmorell28]

That question has always stuck with me as well

[@DivineRedwood]

*London's speech is priceless. Never underestimate a Democrat's obliviousness to the reality THEY created.*

[@bubbasmith179]

Progressives are really just fascists

[@dreamdiction]

Who is "london"? When did he speak? Where did he speak?

[@DivineRedwood]

@@dreamdiction Mayor of San Francisco.

[@teg5135]

Create the crises and then come in to fix the crises you created, by of course asking for more money, but it never stops.

[@emetzger]

I live in SF and have since 1994. The only thing that will solve the problem is to stop tolerating it. We can't solve everyone's personal problems, but we can solve people sleeping and shitting on the street. It just takes political will, or at least plausible deniability, to do it.

[@mitchellrobbins2771]

Where do you tell someone to go that has nowhere to go? They certainly can't incarcerate 20,000 homeless people, who will pay for that? If there is a golden solution I'd like to hear it. Even if San Francisco was "tough on homelessness", what would that exactly entail that's actually fiscally feasible?

[@brerpossum]

Empathy ruins cities. Tolerance and cheap cowardly "caring" allows decadence to flourish. "But where will the homeless go?" Until you can say I don't give a fuck, but not here, you will continue to watch your city turn to shit.

[@bienle8275]

@@brerpossum You hit it on the mark!! If they don’t give a shit, why should we.

[@JacobAnawalt]

💯 %. It reminds me of a homeless community I learned about in Hawaii. They have peace, shelter, and community. Their solution? Individual contribution to shared community responsibilities and zero tolerance of bad behaviors.

[@zxyatiywariii8]

@@JacobAnawalt Yes, this works as long as the community doesn't allow addicts and thieves. Once they do, the whole community rots from the inside and devolves.

[@Davysprocket213]

In DEC 2021, I worked in the area of Market and Mission St. I was APPALLED at the lawlessness and the ugliness. The city I’ve loved since my youth has degraded into filth and chaos. This video is not an exaggeration, in the least.

[@gwho]

the dumbest, most obvious thing is a policy of turning allowing obvious crime to go unenforced

[@rpdbu8250]

It has spread to Sacramento, CA. Bay Area people have been flocking to Sacramento, costs went up, housing is scarce and crime skyrocketed. Failures of SF is a disease

[@madmaxxmad2]

I love how she is now mad at the place her and gavin created

[@RocketmanRockyMatrix]

She won't do anything about it.

[@zacktam]

this guy is spot on. I was born in SF and lived just outside of the city all my 54 years. its certainly changed...and that was round the rise of high tech. I've been in tech for over 35 years and i'm not blaming it. so with the wealth of SF and CA as a whole, the city/state can absorb any social problems by throwing any amount of money at it without presenting us with the results.

[@weaksignal8009]

Keep voting for Pelosi (S.F. home district) and Gavin, why are you surprised?

[@eat_the_octopus]

It was absolutely tech that turned SF into a tasteless bland city.

[@nco_gets_it]

@@eat_the_octopus nope, it was moronic progressive voters. I don't feel sorry for SF, LA, Seattle, etc. The people voted for these outcomes over and over again. Tough sh*t for them.

[@TKUA11]

Reagan’s amnesty destroyed California and turned it into a progressives wet dream

[@777jones]

Even poor cities all over the world have solved open air drugs, robberies and violence. It is not a mystery how to solve it and has never been a mystery. You solve it with force. Muscle power, backed up by weapons in case the criminals attack.

[@TheMichaelMove]

What you mean creating an entire new city department to clean up human excrement is a bad sign?

[@dirtysink373]

You shouldnt need to have that kind of department. It is just painting over the problem.

[@Nordic_Sky]

Any interview with Michael Shellenberger is worth watching. I always learn something.

[@thenewyorkcitizen]

He is easy to listen to and smart but he stole the San Fran Sicko title from Michael Savage who coined the phrase 25+ years ago

[@acerld519]

@@thenewyorkcitizen I didn't know that. But the publisher often chooses the title.

[@trudirodger4631]

@@thenewyorkcitizen who is Michael Savage? We have a mayor in Halifax , Nova Scotia by thst name.

[@michaelrigoletti2410]

Being from San Francisco, I've heard many there blame Republicans and their policies for these matters, despite that Democrats have held super majority (if not total) power there for well over 2 decades. Power that is left unchecked by opposition leads to this monopoly-esque outcome, where there is no need or push for better policy results. The simple politcian answer is to address housing, but the actual answer is in what he is saying here, drug abuse and lack of enforcement of even the most basic laws. The SFPD won't even file a report on a Restraining Order vioation with video evidence, likely thanks to the D.A., so why would they bother enforcing even lesser offences and crimes against ones self?

[@fartingrudygiuliani136]

mississippi poverty cost by republicans look it up

[@michaelrigoletti2410]

@@fartingrudygiuliani136 Never said it was because of Democrats specifically, but excellent work on cherry picking rhetorical examples. Republicans that go unchallenged elsewhere are just as much a problem, opposition that can unseat politicians is incentive to actually improve policy, not just hold a seat, regardless of political affliation. However, to your point, Mississippi also did not have several famous major U.S. cities, multiple thriving industries, and an economy that if regarded as a separate nation would qualify for the G8 for decades. To take something in poor condition and make it better can be difficult; to take something thriving and actively destroy it is wasteful.

[@sylviam6535]

Children always blame others for their problems.

[@terryellis3970]

The Republicans are not perfect, but they are normal thinkers with sensical ideas. The leftist radical Democrats are not thinking straight from their elitist towers.

[@sylviam6535]

@@terryellis3970 - Republican politicians are sane, garden variety corrupt and lean libertarian. Democrat politicians are insane, off the charts corrupt and are authoritarian (and getting worse). The choice is easy right now.

[@badweetabix]

In 2011, I visited a relative in SF and it was nearly 20 year since my previous visit and it was truly shocking and depressing. It was like visiting a 3rd world nation's slum. I made the mistake of going to a park after it had rained lightly and the stench from human excrements left by the homeless was overpowering.

[@kxkxkxkx]

Most 3rd world slums are much better then SF

[@dondeangelo8217]

It’s really unfortunate that when we hear a reasonable voice that it’s taken as being so controversial.

[@jesseb9342]

“In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

[@dondeangelo8217]

@@jesseb9342 precisely!

[@KillerMoth3]

I remembered the video you guys did where a rock musician raised money and built tiny colorful homes for the homeless in LA which not only got rid of the tents and garbage but encouraged the homeless to get jobs, get medical attention, and get off skid row for good. Only for democrats and politicians do have the police evict them and had all the homes be thrown away thus destroying an actual way to stop homelessness and wasting more tax money on useless projects.

[@sandymoonstone855]

AS ; who owned the land ? When the tiny homes were there , I saw tents on the streets .

[@KillerMoth3]

@@sandymoonstone855 They were all on either vacant lots or land owned by churches. If you are asking how come you don't see them now it's because they gave up on the project after the mayor and city council kept getting rid of them and it interfere with their "solution"

[@sandymoonstone855]

@@KillerMoth3 ; someone owns the vacant land. were the new home owners paying their sewer bills ?

[@chrissnyder2091]

@@sandymoonstone855 you can't have somebody provide a solution that is not sponsored by or subsidized by the state.

[@sandymoonstone855]

@@chrissnyder2091 ; so sleeping on the street is sponsored / subsidized by the state ? real question / no sarcasm

[@ThePragmatist839]

Deinstitutionalization did a huge disservice to the long-term, severely mentally ill. Sadly, there will always be some people who don’t recover, and nowadays they land on the streets. The lucky ones have family members who take them it, at great emotional and financial cost, but even that is an imposition and breaks families. There should be long term psychiatric hospitals that are pleasant to be at, with nice parks, and activities set up as there used to be where people immune to treatment or unable to care for themselves can go and be safe and taken care of, for many years if that’s what required. Sadly now rehab and psychiatric facilities are keen to get you out within months, get insurance money, and send you on your merry way. That will not work for someone who is 54 and has had schizophrenia since they were 16. They will likely never get to a point of being able to live independently. The unwillingness to set up proper, long-term care psychiatric hospitals thus fuels a huge part of the homelessness problem as well as a solid portion of the incarceration problem because prison is just an expensive way of doing the same thing - housing people with supervision who can’t manage on their own.

[@joeshmoe7899]

Who pays for it? As the billions of world poor flood in, filling your care homes... Who pays for it?

[@user-ty2uz4gb7v]

Those institutions were no picnic either.

[@sergioesamayoa]

This are where my libertarian side says "we need someone to take care and seems no one wants so, government?"

[@johnslugger]

Funny how there where so few mentally ill people running around in the 1800's and times beyond. It's called 'Darwinism', they don't survive very long. Sad but true.

[@wallacehowery6414]

@@joeshmoe7899 the billionaires can pay for it.

[@dmsalomon]

It's absolutely wild when even libertarians like reason are speaking out for more policing and gov't intervention on this issue. Just goes to show how out of control these Californian progressives are.

[@maxsilver3295]

Or how stupid Libertarianism is.

[@Mrbfgray]

Libertarianism is not anarchy as you may have been taught by our Marxist leaning babysitting...I mean public schools, and universities. Libertarians stand FOR police, courts and justice in general, and a national defense.

[@Mrbfgray]

@@maxsilver3295 How is it stupid? Do you even know what it stands for?

[@maxsilver3295]

@@Mrbfgray I've read Hoppe, Nozick, Rothbard, Block etc. Hoppe advocates for immigration controls based on the whims of the private property owners who owns the land at the border. Nozick defended contractual slavery. Rothbard defended the ethics of leaving an infant to starve to death since any moral obligation would be a "positive" right. For all the reasons I mentioned and more, yes I know Libertarianism is stupid.

[@Mrbfgray]

@@maxsilver3295 Your final thought discredits everything, stupid kids react emotionally like that. Ayn Rand (yes *I know you have been indoctrinated to loath her* ) defined the American version of Libertarian. So if you haven't read and understood Atlas Shrugged none of your other readings matter. (notice I have no where endorsed Ayn or Libertarians, simply attempting to define our terms here)

[@Malignus68]

My favorite observation from Shellenberger's book: People like Oprah, Dr. Phil, Joyce Meyer...they make millions by telling their audience, "It's within your power to improve your life, you should be trying to do so, and here's a seemingly endless number of way you can begin"...but say those same words to a high school drop-out, or pregnant teen, or drug addict, or homeless person, and you'll invoke the fiery wrath of every progressive in this country.

[@agsilverradio2225]

25:10 As a Conservative-leaning Libertarian, I like the sound of the Dutch solution to the War on Drugs.

[@k_tess]

Most drugs. Opioids should be different. They ruin too many lives. Everything else. Maybe. Weed and psychedelics? Definitely.

[@btsnake]

The problem isn't that they're allowing bad behavior, it's that they're removing the consequences of bad behavior altogether using their power, in the name of compassion.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

You can't transplant the Dutch population elsewhere. They get that level of freedom because they are responsible. Other nationalities (including Americans) aren't.

[@impudentdomain]

Portugal has it right, I think

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

Prison changed me. It made me even more determined to NOT do all the things that led me to that point. I really Like Micheal. I have seen interviews with him several times. But the "Broken Windows" theory of law enforcement is basically a law, not, a theory of psycology by now. I am not an academic. But I know human behaviour, after so long buried in basic survival mode. Keep searching. Find someone like me who has come out of serious homelessness. And are not completely insane. Please. If you want to rescue people from what is happening. Understanding why is that difficult. But figuring out how to approach, is very, very difficult. Because you lack the understanding. I still fight that mindset everyday. After 15 years of finally starting on my new path. I want to stay away from people. I dont like people, except those I know well. I am friendly. But I dont. I am afraid of you. Years of basic emotional starvation, always on the tip toes, waiting. The street is a dangerous place. Drugs are part of it and sometimes are why. Then it builds and builds and builds...

[@JerryStevens]

I've never been arrested let alone in prison but the whole prison system looks like a relic of the middle ages. As columnist George Will wrote in 2017: "Most of the 2.3 million people now incarcerated in America will return to their communities, and few will have been improved by their experiences inside." It seems like prisons should emulate the outside world so that people are better prepared for when they get out.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

@@JerryStevens I whole heartedly agree. The current prison system is abominable. This includes local County jails, some are very bad like Maricopa County Arizona, The L.A County Jail System, New York City, St. Louis. Law enforcement needs to be over hauled completely. I have millions of ideas on this. No of them have anything to do with defunding the Police. I have a couple good friends I met while incarcerated, both are cops. Were cops then. I go to church with one. He is a good friend. But I dont trust people, so if I trust this guy. He is a good cop.

[@JerryStevens]

@@thesaltyspacecowboy8531 Stay well my friend. I'm glad you're on the outside.

[@PivotGrowth]

my cell changed my life and I am grateful for the pain and low points I have endured. they made me into the man I am today

[@ChrisAthanas]

It’s interesting that the economics of the USA and the breakup of the traditional family is never part of the conversation and just assumed as given fact, and excepted in other cultures. The American culture been decimated by the woke policies starting in the 1960s and without the reversal of those policies, these problems with only get progressively worse and widespread

[@karenw5333]

Couldn’t agree with you more!!

[@fruiz351]

The the problem is we are 62+ years too late to turn back time and contain this beast! The people of that generation should have seen the writing on the wall and have niped it in the bud when they saw it happening yet they stood by and enjoyed it's new found freedom and "sexual revolution"!

[@ChrisAthanas]

@@fruiz351 they didn't understand this was big finance pushing it, they really thought it was organic and from ground-up, when it was carefully designed and managed to cut the costs of employees and double the workforce while creating a dumbed down pipeline of compliant employees and dependent citizens for easy tax subjects (ie: slaves)

[@rednight2476]

There is no shortage of employed people that can't afford a home. Between excessive regulation, and the never ending printing of money people simply can't afford with a working class job.

[@benw3864]

You can easily afford a home in a multitude of areas with a working class job. The FHA is extremely generous with loans. The issue is the homes people can afford aren't in the places they want to live, and the places they want to live have high demand and excessive zoning restrictions that keep the market artificially competitive.

[@grizzleyadams2101]

@@benw3864 This hasn't stopped the wealthy from buying up San Francisco properties paying $2 million for run down houses. San Francisco is a desirable city. It comes down to location, location, location.

[@gg_rider]

Good news for you, then, the Biden admin recently shifted from fiscal deficits to fiscal surplus, which _equals private sector deficit_ , to the penny. In place of inflation, expect profits to plunge and employment to go from desperate need to rising layoffs, unless current fiscal status gets reversed. Trump admin and GOP Congress spent net $7.8 trillion in just 4 years. Americans' net savings increased by $6.4 trillion. Stock market dipped hard in 03/2020 then came back strong.

[@JesusAndRick]

Why are these people with no money trying to live in literally one of the most expensive places to live?

[@sylviam6535]

Those people should not be living in San Francisco.

[@abramgaller2037]

The politicians are looking for paths to power ,as opposed to opportunities for constructive help.

[@TheSeeking2know]

Word.

[@cinemar]

After a lifetime of siding with the left I have now left the left. I can't go to the right either but I now see the wisdom in the conservative party. It's clear to me now that the left's way of life comes at the expense of conservative values. Without conservatives the left would just be an enormous child care facility.

[@terryellis3970]

Go right. It's not perfect, but it's normal. The left is not normal anymore. From an ex-leftist, when it was centrist and normal.

[@gussetma1945]

You fools attacked the Church, the Family and Civic Organizations and now you wonder why these overgrown children have no sense of responsibility.

[@remyllebeau77]

The homeless don't want shelters either because they have rules like "no pets" or "no drugs".

[@tolpacourt]

Yup. They want total freedom, and nobody can handle total freedom.

[@albertinsinger7443]

The problem in the US has basically been legalized drugs. I am from Amsterdam and legalized drugs has created a lot of crime and broken lives. You need to get very heavy on drug use. Smoking pot should be criminalized and sentences should range from 5-10 years and taking cocaine and heroin needs to be punishable by death. This is the only way to get everyone on the right track again.

[@davidcardinal3654]

@@albertinsinger7443 it already is like that and has been for decades. Only a handful of states have legal pot…..there are still people in jail for possession of a joint

[@technoloverish]

@@albertinsinger7443 Where does The Bible say to put people in jail for smoking pot?

[@albertinsinger7443]

@@technoloverish Where does it say in the Bible that you can address me?

[@justinpaul3110]

High rent alone is only part of the problem. If wages aren't high enough to pay for housing, then, yes, there's a problem.

[@isabelreyes6387]

I remember my mom would always tell me that the government wants people on welfare. She was an immigrant and would constantly told to look for government handouts and her response was that once you allow the system to support you, you actually get stuck there and there is no incentive to come off that support (aka welfare). Incentivize ppl to pull themselves out of poverty and substance abuse it’s the only way it will get better.

[@aggedyran]

Lack of affordable housing has definitely caused more homelessness here. Our city leveled several city blocks of cheap 'weekly' motels in order to "beautify" the city...but those motels were housing a ton of poor people and without them, those people were turned out on the street. Then, the city spent millions on a big, heated, connected shelter...but many homeless won't go there because they can't bring their pets or do drugs. Also, our state has no long-term mental health facilities. The longest time anyone can stay in mental health institutions is 90 days. It's a huge problem...I wish they had just left the weekly motels intact.

[@jasonmclean2871]

M. Shellenberger AND Reason are extremely reasonable entities. I took great interest in Pandora’s Promise when I first viewed it around the time of its initial release. My former father-in-law is/was a head psychiatrist at multiple large hospitals in Minneapolis. Through his daughter I heard of his dream that farms- practical, functional rural farms producing agricultural and animal products would serve as venues for mental and drug-induced illness treatment. Alternative to current urban laissez-faire anarchy, or “Residential Care Facilities”, Asylums”, “Conservatorships” … and I assume Tom, the clinical psychiatrist head-honcho also envisions the farm facilities include robust facilities equipped to manage the obvious challenges of detox, violence, the gamut of anti-social behaviors, etc., yet with an overarching mission to transition toward the habilitation of the “inmates” to functional work in service of the farm system. It’s a by-gone idea, “grounding”, getting back to the earth, gaining insight to the marvel of life through gardening , farming, animal care, and the myriad wonders of the great outdoors, in a dual-purpose facility, one that might also, btw, be self-sustaining economically-not by pressing car license plates, but wholesome agricultural production. One other thing I’d like to mention, or propose: a discreet Suggestion Box, differing from the Comments scrolls, so that M. Shellenberger and other prominent voices on the various and sundry topics of interest and concern might receive ideas and proposed solutions of those of us who have not earned prominence.

[@rebeccashields9626]

It makes sense. Physical labor/exercise and being outdoors in nature are incredibly therapeutic. Plus rural land is cheap and would bring down the costs. You could work in exchange for the rehab services.

[@ChrysanthsMum]

Responsibility seems to be a bad word today. Even I, at almost 60, feel like giving up on being responsible.

[@4862cjc]

Exactly. I sometimes feel the same way. I mean, I work hard, live below my means, and take great care to keep my house, car, job, and life in order, but other people do not and seem to get by without consequence. So I figure, why do I bother? I am not there yet, but the thought does cross my mind.

[@Metalblowing]

For people in USA, who can't understand how this is happening. In USSR it was illegal to be homeless, out of work, and a drunkard. USSR still had drunk, homeless, and out of work people. My parents lives through this shit and there is no amount of any policy that can fix this. You can minimize the amount but not via liberal policies.

[@carieyounginsurance]

The difference? We don’t actively incentivize it or pay for it! That’s the difference! And maybe we could actually use this money to build something for the mentally ill people that need a place to stay. Old or disabled people get group homes- why not mentally ill or handicapped people? If drugs are a problem don’t allow people to get anything using them. Seems harsh but where’s the incentive to get yourself better?

[@raymondmeyers8983]

And they’ll keep voting for the same people bringing the same policies over and over.

[@martinavaslovik3433]

Well this was a marvelous talk by Mr. Shellenberger, and I very much enjoyed it. He has shown great understanding and compassion and perhaps sees the best way forward.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

There's clearly good reason to be concerned about the state abusing power when it comes to making people get treatment for things like drug addiction or mental health. However things like offering people rehab over jail should be a no brainer at this point. My brother is a drug addict and has been for like 10 years. He's been to prison multiple times, none of them for actual drug charges, all stuff related to him doing dumb shit while on drugs or in the process of trying to obtain drugs and also being high and not showing up for court. My family has had to involve the law to deal with him because he refuses to seek treatment, even with him knowing damn well that my parents would pay for it. This type of thing is very common. Obviously we don't want him being in jail, however it's not like he's living any kind of life while he's out. He's literally killing himself with dope and terrorizing my family and others in the process.

[@agsilverradio2225]

33:10 Well in that case, reguardless of any drugs involvemed or not, they still need to be punished for whatever violent crimes and/or property crimes they did. ... If adictions are involved too, then we can talk about maybe requiring treatment on top of that. Maybe it could be insentivised by reduced jail time, the threat of increased jailtime, or maybe even get them some treatment during their incarceration... or something? I don't know. I'm no expert on any of this.

[@ianboard544]

The real problem is policy makers that have no skin in the game: regardless of whether their policies work or not, they go home at night to nice, safe upper class neighborhoods.

[@andrewbloomquist6351]

Why they thought just giving people homes that are not concerned with having a home was a solution is beyond me.

[@NameRequiredSoHere]

The problem with treatment is that the 12 Step model has a stranglehold on the industry. It is unscientific and it would be generous to say that it has a "success" rate of 10%.

[@MrNurserob]

Working at SFGH, most people would be shocked to see the behavior of many of these people when they come into the hospital with illnesses directly stemming from their behavior… threatening violence in all too many cases, demanding this and that, screaming at staff… and then the providers who bend over backwards to accommodate them, even begging them to stay in the hospital when they want to leave because staff tries to enforce even the most basic of rules. It can be a truly demeaning experience to be a medical professional who studied hard and followed through to be successful in Nursing school to be put into such threatening and stressful situations… especially when none of us are given free healthcare or in cases of non-benefitted staff, any healthcare at all. It’s a real microcosm of the larger situation in SF, and it can create a lot of animosity. When a favored victim class is given such preference and priority over others who are hard-working, responsible, diligent, etc, and quite literally given privileges and rewards despite truly appalling behavior, what message is that sending to everyone else? It doesn’t elicit a feeling of very much respect for the system in place, that’s for sure.

[@bkup1332]

I work in SF and grew up in the Bay Area. SF is DISGUSTING now. It stinks of piss and drugs and there's a bum passed out on every second or third corner. I pass at least 15 every time I walk 1 km between the BART ("BARF") station and the office.

[@fightingtosurvive6527]

BARF Station... 😄🤣 Greetings from Sacramento.

[@SDZ675]

Pretty sure even Venezuela looks better than San Fran right now.

[@rpdbu8250]

Not even near or even close. Venezuela cannot be saved. SF needs new leadership and change. Venezuela is a lost cause

[@jacksonwongesq]

Native San Franciscan. I've lived in five disparate neighborhoods. Mr. S would be great dinner company and to have a conversation with.

[@bnobriga2]

As someone who has been homeless, this guy is so close but just misses the ball many times. This is akin to someone who is blind trying to explain the sunset to you.

[@Esper320]

In what ways?

[@bnobriga2]

@@Esper320 If I am being honest I was frustrated while watching (because having lived it) and thought I was typing that into the void. I would have to re-watch the video to give examples. So in a few days I will get back to you once I make time for that.

[@Esper320]

@@bnobriga2 for sure man wasnt being a dick but def want your perspective. Stay up.

[@davidowen74]

@@bnobriga2 read his book bring your receipts thanks.

[@olivel8858]

@@bnobriga2 please share your views

[@hb9149]

I appreciate people telling the truth. Even when they championed the bad ideas that led to bad outcomes.

[@justinpaul3110]

Shellenberger loses me on the government-run drug use sites. Responsible alcohol use is the responsibility of the consumer and the dealer (bar, liquor store, etc). Why, in the case of heroin, is it the responsibility of the government?

[@freebirdjackson5511]

I would be interesting to try the Australia experiment : Find an island, send “these people” who don’t comply with the laws and let them work it out. Somewhat tongue in cheek…but it ultimately worked out for Australia.

[@mariotrejos7236]

It is due to the addictive potential or how able to manage consumption people has. Alcohol has been widely consumed over milenia so people understand better how to drink, on can have high amounts consumed but its not the same with other substances5

[@Loyal_Lion]

Alcohol also causes the most social problems, by far, of any "drug." It's the government's responsibility to work out solutions for social problems or at least attempt to address them, regardless of whom you want to place the "personal responsibility" of the relevant behavior. This is taken as a given in most modern countries. What other entity would you suggest for addressing persistent systemic issues?

[@criticaljacques2237]

​@Loyal_Lion Opioids have a major negative impact socially, but most of it comes from the black market created by the wholesale prohibition and criminalization.

[@melindasaddler559]

Housing First dosent work. The "harm reduction" model is a large part of it, when there is supposed some type of case management. They want to people to remain dependent. That is why no real services are provided. I have been in this type of housing since aging out of foster care in L.A. I had to find my own therapy and recovery. I received a certification and now want to move out to market rate housing. I have been physically threatened by the staff for doing better. Because I am not being victim, it really upsets the whole situation.

[@Esper320]

It seems this conversation is starting in more places given the amount of murders and assaults conducted by homeless in NYC, let alone other cities, it's even bled into the DEI Tech crowd where suddenly basket-weavers who are appointed at F500s to be CDEIO/CHROs now want to talk about this. There are a lot of great points touched on here, but it goes much deeper. If you want to attack things like recidivism, homelessness, drug addiction, and what not from a purely psychiatric care and social worker driven rehabilitation programs there are many things that need to change to even make that possible. A bunch of it you can lay at pharmaceutical, HMOs, and the overall industrialization of healthcare in the USA. It's super expensive and time consuming to train a doctor, only a small percentage focus on psychiatrics with an even smaller percentage wanting to work for some Fed or SLED program and even smaller than that focused on homeless, addicted populations. So you have scarcity of the right people to do the thing you want, and rely on generic subsidized housing with subpar care, if you're lucky you are sent to a nice facility but they want to get you out in months if not weeks and just care about collecting checks from the insurance company and kickbacks from Pharma companies who insist you prescribe patients specific interventions (more drugs). Those same pharma companies are pushing out opiates like it's going out of style and no amount of decriminalization will help stem that tide as long as it's half-assed implemented at the State/Local level. There are so many systemic issues across the board that are prohibitive to any meaningful and dare I say "humane" treatment options. I grew up in the Bronx and saw first hand what happens when you subsidize shit like shelters and care - it leads to methadone clinics, clapped out baseheads drooling on themselves, and a fuckload of corruption. A friend of mine used to joke the only way to solve the homeless problem in NYC was either to distributed spiked drugs and clap all of them or pay urban youths a bounty to beat them all to death like they did in the 70s-80s when the homeless used to hold up on Randall Island.

[@jonnieinbangkok]

Pretty hard to have any credibility on crime when your brother is literally in prison for murder 😂 😂 😂

[@frankc3157]

They woke left got what they voted for. Unless they can come to terms with that and change the way they vote, they deserve it. i feel bad for the people who didn't vote for these horrible politicians.

[@perrywidhalm114]

Amen!

[@bigtakeshi]

I think his tagline for the book should be is "how modern progressives are ruining cities." Progressivism never used to be about constantly playing the victim for everything, it used to be about helping everyone live their best life and getting everyone the fair chance of living their best life. "Pulling yourself by your bootstraps" didn't work because people don't always make the best decisions on their own, so progressives offered to help those who couldn't do that. Now, progressivism has turn into this weird anarchist thing of "leave everyone alone, if you try to influence or direct anyone to do anything to 'help', you're an oppressor."

[@grannygoes7882]

I agree with everything stated here but also rarely does drug treatment work. The treatment world is just a revolving door. The only thing that works is if someone is just forced to change, like spending a huge amount of time in jail or you make it so hard for them to continue in their lifestyle that they just quit. This use to happen all the time. My own brother quit his substance abuse after being in so many treatment facilities I lost track, by spending long periods of time in jail. When he finally sobered up at age 50 (started smoking dope at age 13) I asked him what changed and he said, "I'm too old to spend time in jail, just can't do it anymore." We don't make it hard to be an addict or homeless, we subsidize it!

[@aaronlair5360]

The ability to admit failure is a trait that most politicians unfortunately lack. Never underestimate the value of humility. When you have a career politician they don't have the luxury of consistency. When you have someone that has made a career of politics they have to base their stance on things with what the group as a whole has. Humans have a hard time connecting cause and effect, and then you factor positive feedback loops. Building new residences in San Francisco is beyond difficult. Getting rid of property tax, making it easier for housing to be built, decriminalizing non violent acts, then getting them mental and substance help would be a step in the right direction. Don't kill them with kindness try something different not double down. I wonder what correlation being raised in a single parent home has in this.

[@Clockwork0nions]

Even amongst all of the failures around them, its hilarious to see reason and their guests advocating for the same policies they're crying against.

[@tubester4567]

There are real problems affecting the poor like the lack of affordable housing, and removal of rights that progressives are responsible for. While they pretend to care about the poor, they are really screwing the poor worse than they have ever been screwed.

[@chrisdarby2233]

Yep. Hypocrisy and double standard is the street corner on which liberals live.

[@joeomalley2835]

I love that title, by the way. He speaks truthful and eloquently about this problem. I live in California and went to San Francisco many years ago, but have no desire to go there now for any reason at all.

[@richdobbs6595]

I think I finally get this. This is the creation of Singapore II. You can't achieve a Balkanization of an entire state in the USA at this time. But you might be able to split off a peninsula from a dysfunctional state. Especially, if you keep the proper woke story as you do it. San Francisco today. San Marino county in the future. Seattle later, and then finally the Portland enclave.

[@Rick_Cleland]

😮😮😮

[@alanlight7740]

It might help get your message across if more people knew that the country of Singapore was established when the island was expelled from Malaysia because of incompatible populations (Singapore being majority ethnic Chinese at the time, whereas Malaysia was majority Malay.)

[@casualbrowser407]

The parts you mentioned wold be much closer to Haiti than Singapore, IMHO

[@richdobbs6595]

@@casualbrowser407 San Francisco has the potential to be a prosperous city-state, if it undergoes a severe counter revolution. It is at its core an attractive place with a well educated populace and a lot of wealth. Just convert the bulk of it to a gated community, and confine the problems to the remainder. Haiti is poor, corrupt, poorly educated. But of course I'm presuming that the rich enact their counter revolution, while it is just as likely that they will become the corrupt elite of Haiti.

[@casualbrowser407]

@@richdobbs6595 It takes a very special kind of elite to enact the counterrevolution you mentioned. One that is both wealthy and brave. Most rich people are cowards, they have a lot to loose in open confrontation. Also they have plenty of moving options - Monaco, Switzerland or Miami to name a few - all European, all speaking English. In contrast, the Chinese elites of Singapore had very few choices.

[@SuperFinGuy]

1:19 a homeless person taking drugs?? Of course that means that most of them are drug addicts! Great reporting reason, of course it has nothing to do with skyrocketing housing prices.

[@SuperFinGuy]

@@i0li0il0i One sure can cause another.

[@jvburnes]

This is tragedy of the commons writ large. It will continue until the citizens start lawsuits over the degregation of their public spaces.

[@carpo719]

I would have to say that it is an ongoing issue related to more than just Progressives, but a general lack of regard for a future where housing is Affordable and people come before profit. Progressive policies definitely affect it. But so do the tough-on-crime and tough love tactics of the conservative politicians too. When people present alternative solutions to the ongoing mental health and homelessness crisis, they don't come across very convincing. We can't jail our way out of it. And we can't just give money to everybody because that doesn't solve the problem either. We could start by limiting the lobbying money that comes in from these huge housing authorities that buy up all the houses and apartment buildings.

[@jenhorn5859]

Yes. You can jail your way out of it. Look at the mess created by allowing people to do what people got arrested for when I was a child in the 50s and 60s. Compassion has done nothing for the drug addict.

[@carpo719]

@@jenhorn5859 I disagree. That's just more tax dollars to put somebody in jail, when we already don't have the space to keep rapists or real criminals in there. The drug war is a completely failed process and it has cost us trillions of dollars. If you are willing to throw somebody in jail because they do drugs, then I would say you don't believe in Freedom. And that's not an American value. Legalizing drugs would actually take a lot of the crime aspect out of it. Believe it or not it does work. It worked in Portugal. We already have more prisoners than any other country and if you saw how much it cost you might think twice on that. Because they just get out the next day and do it again. Punishment is not a solution

[@zinknot]

I agree. Some people get the drug problems after becoming homeless. But the policies do practically encourage the drug use and feeding them in very public downtown areas. It could easily be solved by moving them to the country, give them jobs on a ranch and farm type retreat, where they can have jobs and not super crowded spaces to sleep in like city shelters. They are horrible.

[@Rick_Cleland]

@@carpo719 👋🏻👋🏻👋🏻

[@carpo719]

@@zinknot I can relate to that. The only problem is that a lot of them have lost such hope. I do realize a lot of people don't want help, they would rather live on the street. I've met them when I worked at the soup kitchen. But these days a large percentage of people have just faced hard times.

[@able34bravo37]

I live in Eugene, Oregon, which I'm told per capita is the homeless capitol of the US. In the past, I've worked as a housing specialist here in Eugene, and I am currently a mental health counselor in a nearby town. I agree with a lot of what Michael has to say, but a lot of it still will not work here. There will always be homeless, there will always be people who INSIST on making retarded decisions. For these people, there will always be a need for asylums to protect us and themselves from them. Obviously what went on in the 60s should not be repeated in those asylums, but they do need to exist.

[@larryswindcatcher]

American society is incapable of coming up with something different that would work in solving the problem of homelessness etc They are also incapable of solving the wild fires in our clear-cut and abandoned national and state forest by following the Science of Forestry, which they ignore. New way of thinking would be to combine the two problems and solving both. Homeless etc should be removed from the city environment and housed in military like field camps in the national and state timberland forest. The object is to rehabilitate our abandoned timberland forest and rehabilitate the unfortunate by giving them a job, housing, self worth and pride of accomplishment. We need people with vision, not people doing the same failing thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

[@wallacehowery6414]

We should make everyone under a certain income slaves, problem solved.

[@larryswindcatcher]

@@wallacehowery6414 A baby bird is fed and housed by their parents until they are adults and can fly. Even a little bird has a job to do. They fly out every morning in search of food. If they can’t feed themselves, they die. Equating having a job to feed yourself and family as slavery, is a childish notion. Sweat shops that paid $1.15 for a 50 hr. week, were worse than slavery. The slave had room and board. No one owes you a living. You were born American with certain individual Citizen Rights, that should be enough. I will venture to say that at least 50% of the unfortunate homeless in the cities would jump at the opportunity to live and work in a low stress environment of a 40 hr. work week at $8.00 an hour with room and board. They could earn and save $1,280 a month. The mother of crime is desperation for money to feed yourself and family.

[@casualbrowser407]

One problem of "giving" people things - food, homes, jobs, care, respect, etc - is that you first have to TAKE it from someone else. Now there's the mythical "rich" who have these things in abundant amounts, right? Wrong ! .. All the rich have is money. Take away this money and see how many houses or hospitals you can built with it ... you'd discover very interesting things about how money tuns into consumer goods, the price discovery mechanisms, inflation, etc,etc. Or just read a history book on the stellar account of communism creating wealth. You cannot confiscate your way into prosperity. The more you take away from people, the less gets produced and the need only grows. Good luck to you all

[@wallacehowery6414]

@@casualbrowser407 yes, you know how billionaires become billionaires? They take it from everyone else. First it was Walmart, wiped out small family businesses, and all the shopping money went to Walmart. Then Amazon came along, and now Amazon getting the money that used to go to family businesses. We have one new billionaire (Jeff Bezos), and a million less actual small businesses.

[@larryswindcatcher]

@@casualbrowser407 I agree. Neo-Republicans and Neo-Democrats are all on the same agenda, Globalization and Communism for the world masses. American history is interesting and records how Main Street Capitalism and the “American Free Enterprise System“ (free from corporate monopoly) was destroyed by “Free Market” trade agreements beginning in 1993. The 1% filthy rich corporate monopolizes were now “free” to take whatever they wanted with no restraints. They sacked out America industry and moved most of it to Communist China. Really, what we have today is a global marriage between Communist labor and Fascist corporate monopoly. The American “rich” middle class are being systematically destroyed and there is no upward mobility for the youth. Notice how the American Free Enterprise System of Capitalism is scrubbed off of the internet and American history.

[@thomaskollins235]

The democrat politicians did not ruin San Francisco. The Voters who elected the politicians did. they got what they voted for

[@noControl556]

I oppose using coercion to subvert someone's free will, but at what point does someone's addiction subvert their free will? Is it still free will if you will do anything to get more of a drug you are physically dependant on? I think the deciding factor is that the individual has to ask for help at some point. They have to say they don't want this addiction anymore but feel powerless to stop on their own.

[@gregs.2679]

The reason that high housing prices are correlated with high rates of homelessness is that the same politicians and the same kinds of policies create both problems. If you could rent a place in LA or Frisco for $100 a month, a lot of people would still be spending so much to feed their addictions that they still couldn't come up with $100 to pay their rent. When you have a growing population and zoning and environmental laws that make it take 10 to 20 years to get permission to build a half dozen townhouses or a 60 unit apartment building, you're going to have to pay thousands a month to get one of the few apartments that already exist. Allowing speculators to own empty apartments as investments compounds the problem, of course, and it may be high time to think about taxing units that remain unoccupied for unnaturally long periods of time more heavily than units that are being offered in good faith as potential dwellings. When you've got funny ideas about it being somehow morally wrong to force psychotics and addicts whose behavior is out of control into treatment, you're also going to have a problem with a lot of those people living in the gutter and in public parks. This is why these two problems tend to occur together.

[@casedismissed8581]

HAHAHAHAHA "progressives" you meant COMMUNISTS right?

[@tadroid3858]

MS has an enormous heart and a larger mind. I'm reading "Apocalypse Never", right now. Thanks for your honesty. Correlation is not causation.

[@cainabel615]

People follow the law for two reasons. Either they agree with the law, OR, they fear the consequences. If you want to help, you help BEFORE a crime has been committed, or after a person is released from prison. Once a crime has been committed, the criminal justice system takes over and their job is to punish. The velvet glove OR the iron fist. Both tools must be in the tool box and used when appropriate.

[@RukaSubCh]

Even in Singapore where there is a death penalty for drug dealing, there is still drug dealing. Shady people will do shady things.

[@kennethhurley422]

this is weird seeing people walk by someone or multiple people laying on the ground in public. isn't san fran one of the wealthiest cities in the nation....where does the money go

[@alleycatalog]

5,000 dollar a month studio apartments, maybe

[@richardque4952]

He just describe what is wrong not just in san francisco but calfornia,seattle and portland ,and more important the entire liberal left ideology.

[@mymaster416]

Floyd wasn't "murdered", he ODed on fentalyn

[@janetm2969]

Love your work, Michael! ❤

[@Nill757]

Reason’s narrator is the face of the problem here. Acknowledges open air drug scenes bad, yet keeps circulating back in some confused way to dogma of no legal enforcement of anything. The forced rehab treatment plan must still have jail as a last resort, and this fcker is never going to vote for that. He is the face of the typical California that voted for eliminating felony drug enforcement, creating the drug scenes, because it made them feel good, not the addicts.

[@Cacowninja]

Since when has the drug war ever worked? Getting rid of it would be a good start.

[@Nill757]

@@Cacowninja Got to go deeper than “get rid of it”, else your just another guy who caused these open air drug scenes, as CA did, thousands dead. MS explains the plan.

[@Cacowninja]

@@Nill757 What? Dude I'm just a guy that doesn't want a failed government policy. The drug war had resulted in. 1. Loss of freedom. 2. A violent black market. 3. A brutal police force. 4. Trillions of dollars wasted. To name a few things. If you got rid of it you wouldn't have that shit.

[@Nill757]

@@Cacowninja No, you're not that guy. Shellenberger is that guy, who sees a couple failed problems and responsibly thinks it through. You're the guy that just wants one thing with some bad problems to go away (hard prison for drugs), and then not give a shit about what happens next, like many Californians, dude. These open air drug scenes w thousands don't happen all over the country, they happen in SF and LA; Californians *made* this shit happen w prop 47. This kind of humans-thrown-in-the-garbage problem will *keep* fking happening until the people who made it happen own it.

[@gregoryg.campbell3874]

Homeless, affordable housing no If you can't afford to live there you shouldn't be there and you should be removed off of public property.

[@-Gorbi-]

This time in history will clearly be remembered as the “era of progressive reverse-Midas idiot-compassion”.

[@rudyando]

Is there a similar era in history that we can compare our current times too?

[@-Gorbi-]

@@rudyando maybe 1873 ish or 1965 ish but mostly, no not really. We are living in the ultimate slave-morality era - the end result of Christianity. Not a bad thing in itself at all, but it’s gone too far. Slave morality = might is not right; logic is not related to truth, the weak inherit the earth, rich men can’t get into heaven (kinda agree with that one, if heaven existed), and the weakest/most oppressed are the most holy. We are living in a slave-morality wet dream

[@ebg3624]

Homelessness seems to be a choice not a circumstance in many cases.

[@D.E._Sarcarean]

Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp? When make having a single conviction permanent, and then create a 'record system' that allows any employer and landlord to discriminate based on that, and then eliminate 80% of all jobs by law to someone with a "record", you end up with a society that has no other choice but to live a life of homelessness and drugs.

[@CountArtha]

That's not the "only choice." You could just keep them in prison. Or bring back hanging.

[@benw3864]

Yup. I further this. I don't personally agree with discrimination for employment on someone's past record. If someone truly did something that bad, like sex offenders, then they shouldn't be out of jail in the first place.

[@BrianCave]

There needs to be balance, taking someone straight out of prison into many jobs are an extreme game of Russian Roulette. I think after a set number of years without any felonies the record should be purged for public background checks like employment. Only law enforcement or judicial should be able to see those purged / sealed record.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Employers are concerned that they will be sued if a convicted criminal they employ does something bad.

[@JCResDoc94]

*34:00** BC THE CJC IS JUST SO UTTERLY RUIONOUS!* that is the problem. even when you can afford a lawyer. & thr is no conservatorship path that can work. under what circumstances? almost none. everything is abused. _JC

[@Scruffy-LookingNerfHerder]

The people of SF are getting exactly what they deserve. They voted these people in, got a terrible situation out of it, but then instead of doing the rational thing and voting for a different path, they doubled down and voted for ever more radical officials. I’m happy to sit back from the relative sanity of San Diego and watch SF fall apart.

[@thesaltyspacecowboy8531]

You are an awesome dude, Micheal!!! Thanks for your hard work.

[@NicholasA231]

It's great to hear him responding to the aspects of his proposals that tend to raise an eyebrow from a personal liberty perspective. I think it's a relatively easy distinction to make between open public drug scene encampments, and private behavior between consenting adults who are stable enough to maintain independent lives and who are acting in a manner that gives due respect to the safety of others and to the shared environment. I personally think part of the decriminalization puzzle is changing from criminalization of selling dangerous substances per se, to civil liability and criminal statutes surrounding how the activity is done. If you let people deal in recreational drugs, but hold them responsible for substances that aren't what they are claimed to be, for documenting that the buyer is duly informed of the known dangers, for recognizing when a sale to a person or at a certain time is unreasonably dangerous - basically defining duty of care, negligence, etc in such interactions - then you'd have strong incentive and competition among sellers to provide the best documented/purest/tested products in the most responsible way they can devise. You'd retain a mechanism to take action against the harmful elements of black markets without involving public institutions in the sale and distribution of addictive or otherwise potentially dangerous substances.

[@TheSpicyLeg]

It won’t work. For one, governments are always on the lookout for new ways to get their paws on more money to waste, and one of the easiest is sin taxes. Taxes on goods or services that the general public, at a minimum, dislikes or is indifferent towards. You know, taxes are immoral when they tax things I like or buy, but are just fine on the things you like. No one screams about taxes on cigarettes, after all. So the government, even if drugs were legal, would immediately tax the piss out of it and invite black marketers in anyway. This has already happened with marijuana in California, and the politicians are screaming about people buying street weed instead of legal weed - not because it offends them morally, but they want that tax money. The other problem is that drugs are not just any other good or service. By their nature, they cause people to lose control. You say “stable”, but drug use is anything but. If you have 100 normal, responsible, working adults and make them into meth addicts, you’re not going to see half of them remain stable while the other half spirals out of control. Drugs inhibit the decision making process, so that even if a person has the intention of just using drugs recreationally, they often become habitual users. I don’t support drug legalization for this and other reasons. I’m more sympathetic to the idea that it is better to treat addicts medically than criminally. In my opinion, rather than jailing addicts they should be made to get treatment, and keep the manufacture and sale of drugs as a violation of the law.

[@HeavyK.]

Intervention, treatment, and recovery. If Amsterdam can do it, so can San Francisco

[@15743_Hertz]

The progs are splitting off small pieces of stability and destabilizing them. The purpose? So they can be in control. Why would an egomaniac want to be in control of a hellscape? “better to reign in hell than serve in heaven” - Milton

[@chrissnyder2091]

Misery also loves company....

[@denisecatlett7203]

When common sense becomes revolutionary, I say bring it on. We need more of this.

[@notthefbi7932]

And there is worse to come 😬

[@kittygonzalez2827]

It comes to an end when you get rid of the politicians like Pelosi!

[@otaconpunished]

Thanks for making the Past Tense episode of DS9 come true, San Francisco.

[@VolkColopatrion]

Why call them progressive?

[@homewall744]

Because people who think they can force progress by government edicts are progressives who are bad people. Eugenics was one of their founding notions, and like China's prior one-child-policy is also progressive. They incorrectly believe they have the answers and can force solutions on us all against all of our wills.

[@gohanlopez5330]

Cuz they come up with new ideas from the traditional policies that looks good on paper but bad in practice.

[@alansouthall8221]

Lots of conjecture here. Homelessness and lack of affordable housing is instrically linked. Homeless is not merely or mainly a mental health issue

[@pieterotten3848]

The problem is that their focus is on the homeless while the folks needing the real help are the citizens

[@PeterDivine]

This guy's a hack. Wants to stay culturally progressive and empathetic without actually admitting his policies are worthless at _best_ for stopping the problems they made.

[@arshadalam4457]

EXACTLY! Policing people off the streets just means more locked up and more spending which cripples the economy further. This guy is a joke for downplaying the effect that California's high living costs (caused by taxes and regulation) have on people.

[@PeterDivine]

@@arshadalam4457 I was thinking more along the lines of how an emphasis on drug decriminalization coupled with drug rehabilitation programs that have recidivism rates through the roof _thoroughly_ proving their inefficacy is batshit insanity, but hey, you're not wrong.

[@arshadalam4457]

@@PeterDivine Ah okay, gotcha. Yeah, you're still spot on. If you don't mind, do you mind sending sources you've got about the high recidivism rates? I'd like to use the stats in the future.

[@sschuyler1]

Just finished the book, which is terrific. Colorado in general, and Denver in particular, sadly, seems to be following in the footsteps of California/SF.

[@Glennyoung-uy2nm]

Reading about people grabbing multi-figures monthly as income in investments even in this crazy days in the market, any pointers on how to make substantial progress in earnings? Would be appreciated....

[@dominicmiles3417]

Biggest mistake: not investing in a crypto favourable portfolio 75/25 portfolio. 75% crypto , 25% stocks

[@austinpeter6116]

Just shove it into CRYPTO you will be wealthy in the long run

[@markJohnson-kk1hn]

Yeah this is absolutely the best time to buy and Invest

[@Edward-st8qm]

@@austinpeter6116 Perfect you buy when the market is low to get profit when it rises

[@Santos_12]

I wanted to trade Crypto but got confused by the fluctuations in price

[@cindyjo9093]

If you have to steal to get your drugs, then you need to pay for your crime.