Recessing A Tune-O-Matic Guitar Bridge

[@jimcadorette1140]

Amazing and timely video for me. I am at the beginning stages of building a neck- through with a TOM bridge and this solves an issue for me. Kudos.

[@Metalbass10000]

Good video, some good information, and I am definitely a fan of mounting these styles of bridges in this manner. Mounting a bridge and tail piece that was taken off of a 78 or 79 LP onto a custom build for the owner of that LP was the inspiration behind one of our proprietary design bridge and tail sets, which has no grown into, because of that inspiration, for individual designs.

[@currituck]

Really cool!! My 2009 Carvin has a bridge like this. They use to tilt the neck until some years ago they switched to the recessed style.

[@0000song0000]

it's a shame Gibson hasn't got the memo 😐

[@Vintage35MM]

Hi Chris, very useful video. It’s making me think about different options for an old buggered up Warmoth LP style from the late 80s. I want to replace the standard scale neck with a 24.75” scale. It has a S style hard tail bridge, so I’m hoping I can use the existing string thru holes and back ferrules and then position a routed tune a matic a little closer to the bridge pickup. To compensate scale length. I messed up the neck pocket with a router back then not knowing about templates. But a couple of custom made templates and a block of mahogany to glue in I think I can fix the scale length from both ends. It won’t be look perfect but it should perform better. Thanks Chris

[@Metalbass10000]

You can also use an inexpensive, but more precise and more accurate, small device called an, "edgefinder," that fits in your spindle (they come in 1/4", 3/8", or 1/2" diameters (metric sizes also, and years ago I saw a 5/8"), and these make it extremely quick and easy to accurately locate your instrument, centerline, and check alignment to your X and/or Y axis. Even more precision and accuracy can be achieved using an indicator, of which there are numerous types, and numerous ways to properly utilize them. Great video! I'd done this once, many years ago, and completely forgotten about it. Yeah, having my CNC vertical mill is absolutely going to make that job quicker, more accurate, a LOT cleaner, and safer. I think that would look incredible on the Flying V I'm building. It's more the vintage style body lines, like the ones KK Downing, or Micheal Schenker, used, but more modern amenities, like 24 SS jumbo frets, Hipshot locking tuners, 7 piece multi-laminate neck, not sure about the pickups though... Great idea to sink the tune-a-matic, just don't let an authentic playing Gibson Les Paul purist see that...

[@tylerbeardmore7982]

Honestly going to do it! Thanks for the advice

[@Halfaloaf599]

Great video and I want one for my next guitar. I’ll take that one!

[@jaredt3985]

Great video. I really am surprised the recessed TOM isn’t more popular, although it seems to be picking up steam. I’ve been playing TOM bridge equipped guitars my whole life, it’s what feels right to me. But I also prefer the weight and ergonomics of light Strat type bodies. Recessed TOM to the rescue. I’m planning a build right now with this bridge option.

[@TacoTuesdey]

for anyone wanting to do this at home without a cnc or router: use a drill press and a forstner bit. use the bit do drill multiple shallow holes from one end of the pocket to the other, then just clean up the sides with a chisel. im in the process of building a tele with a tunomatic bridge and this is how i did it

[@JoeStanFPV]

How deep of a recess pocket did you do? Im about to do the same

[@TacoTuesdey]

@@JoeStanFPV i only went down about 3/8". it all depends on what bridge you are using really. some sit taller than others. i didnt use a factory gibson tunomatic, i bought an aftermarket roller bridge. i just set the bridge on top of the guitar body where i wanted it. then used a long piece of string from the nut to the bridge (sitting on top of the body). then i used a ruler to measure how high the string was sitting above the puckups. i figured lowering 3/8" was good, my string action is fine. if you measure that way with a piece of string you can figure out exactly how far to go down based on your pickups and bridge.

[@JoeStanFPV]

@@TacoTuesdey awesome, thank you! Exactly what I was thinking

[@JoeStanFPV]

I built a strat with a tune o matic and ended up shimming the neck. Still kinda high but its a slide guitar

[@mightyluv]

Great idea, and great to watch it play out. I don’t have a CNC machine (just a simple hobbyist here), but I can still apply these ideas to hand tools (it just takes a bit longer!). Thanks for not being a screamer, a smart-ass, or a know-it-all; there are waaaay too many of those guys on KZbin. Also, it’s refreshing to see some original designs, not the trifecta of Strat, Tele, and Les Paul. Subscribed!

[@MikeCindyWhite]

Great tips as always Chris! Thanks buddy 🎸🎸👍, Hope you get 30,000 soon you deserve it bro!

[@slavkomakarovski1158]

Very good video 👍that’s exactly what I was looking for

[@HighlineGuitars]

Glad to hear!

[@chenlu79]

This video deserves more likes!

[@benfowler2127]

I recessed the posts on a tuneomatic using a roundover bit one time. Looks different and performs just like you were saying.

[@themongoloid8944]

As always, great video buddy. Thanks for the insight and inspiration. !!!!

[@LandsOfDespair]

Thanks, a great idea :) I hate how high is the TOM compared to the body and all the problems of the design it has. Recessing is fixing a few of them. But there are still a lot of cons to it compared to the hardtails like hipshot and similar. Cheers :)

[@Dubnot]

This video answered 2 questions I had. Thank you!

[@ObiWanAugus]

Thank you very much for your video. It is extremely useful. I have a question. How do you calculate the correct depth of the bridge depth?

[@HighlineGuitars]

I don't. I figure an eighth of an inch ought to do it.

[@ObiWanAugus]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks a lot!

[@jamesnemenyi]

Hi Chris, thank you for sharing. Which posts are those?

[@HighlineGuitars]

They are the posts that came with the bridge.

[@jamesnemenyi]

​@@HighlineGuitars Thank you Chris. Forgive me, I dont think the video mentions which bridge this is. Was it a Gotoh?

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@jamesnemenyi Yes, it's a Gotoh.

[@jamesnemenyi]

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you. I'll try to get just the posts to be able to use a screwdriver instead of the thumb wheel.

[@johnnyway8667]

Are there any differences in tone between stop tail tune-o-matic bridge vs string through hardtail bridge?

[@HighlineGuitars]

By rule? No.

[@johnnyway8667]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks for the reply. I thought that the tone could change because it is a different angle with tune-o-matic bridge. I'm planning to build a super strat style body with 24.75 inch scale length and the same pickup placements to get closer to les paul tone.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@johnnyway8667 The "Les Paul tone" comes from the pickups. Scale length is a minor factor and pickup placement doesn't matter at all.

[@grogthegrolie]

I bought a Goldo Lowrider bridge instead, and that did the trick for me.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I have always worried that they would be more likely to bend in the middle as TOMs often do.

[@backplomer]

How do the strings exit the holes on top, is there another “ gadget” as such and do you have the Feral’s on the back for the strings to bed into, hopefully you can decifer what I’m asking 😃thanks really appreciate your vid, just the info I was after

[@HighlineGuitars]

String through top ferrules.

[@OldSilkRoad]

I have no experience with TOM bridges, so a question out of ignorance: are there any posts available for TOM bridges without the thumb wheels, given that they are slotted at the top and so can still be adjusted for height with a screwdriver? Eliminating the thumb wheel should shave off a few millimeters, which might be all you need to lower the profile of the bridge such that there is no need to recess it. Does anyone know of such an option?

[@bradshannon862]

What depth would be appropriate to rout? I have a JM style with a S style tremolo/bridge.

[@HighlineGuitars]

You have to lower the bridge/saddles as low as they can go and measure the string action at the 12th fret. Subtract that number from your desired string action at the 12th fret, add an additional 1/32" (.79mm) and you've got your depth.

[@mikelilly7285]

Got me thinking of trying this with my Flying V bass. Way too high action and I'm adjusted to the limit. Even shaved the neck pocket.

[@jonahguitarguy]

I have done the recess with a router and template. Very easy to do once the template is made. Even on a carved top. I really would like a CNC I'm just completely out of room with some of the machines I've picked up lately.

[@pomegranitejason]

A bolt-on neck=easy to set the neck pitch with a shim, set necks, not so much, but some companies like ESP do countersink their TOM's for a nice, clean look.

[@martinn2595]

The Tune-o-Matic bridge radius will dictate the neck radius?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes. Or they need to be the same.

[@mikelilly7285]

Would it take too much sustain away if you shaved the bridge?

[@HighlineGuitars]

On an electric guitar? No, not one bit.

[@heavymetalATC]

I am planning on doing this on my next build.

[@michaeldion3893]

Chris, great video regarding using tune-o-matic bridges that got me thinking. I'm building my 1st guitar from scratch and plan to use a hybrid neck thru/set neck design very similar to the PVX neck design. I was planning on using a tune-o-matic bridge and keeping the neck parallel to the body. To address the tune-o-matic ~1/2" height, I was planning to use a 3/8" vs 1/4" fretboard with jumbo frets to raise the neck/fretboard height to match the bridge. Is this another good option or do you foresee any issues with this approach? Thank you.

[@rosamaglio7014]

Thanks this is what I needed . Question would this eliminate the need for the angled back headstock also ?

[@HighlineGuitars]

No, but string tees would eliminate the need for an angled back headstock.

[@rosamaglio7014]

Highline Guitars thanks

[@jamess.829]

It looks very good. How difficult is it to get to the saddle intonation screws?

[@msmith7462]

Exactly what I was wondering...?

[@patrickbrady8326]

Chris to attempt putting a TOM on a strat body how deep would you say that I would have to recess it? and good video by the way!

[@HighlineGuitars]

At least 1/8" and maybe more. You really need to draw a full size side view drawing to know exactly how deep to go.

[@patrickbrady8326]

@@HighlineGuitars thanks for getting back to me so quickly and as always I appreciate your advice

[@michaelpumphery6102]

Just watched recessing a ton bridge , you spoke on how the post are still adjustable because they're slotted , how does the recess effect the individual saddle adjustment ?

[@HighlineGuitars]

No effect.

[@backplomer]

Wow, awesome thanks

[@aaronblack79]

Can you talk about how the decision of whether to angle the neck pocket or recess the bridge would play out, on a 72 deluxe, with t-o-m, where the objective is to be able to switch to a vibramate/bigsby if the mood strikes? (Primary configuration would be the regular TOM/stop tail, but want to be able to switch if a band situation needs a bigsby some of the time.)

[@HighlineGuitars]

I don't think a recessed bridge would work with a Bigsby. You would have to angle the neck to work with the Bigsby setup and when you switch to the TOM/stop tail, you would have to place it at the same height the Bigsby was at. Better yet, build two guitars, one with the Bigsby and one without.

[@aaronblack79]

@@HighlineGuitars This is the response I was afraid of. I wanted to be able to switch. Is there a way I could aim to accommodate both, maybe starting with the angled pocket, and adjust based on which setup feels most right? To clarify, I want to be able to go from fixed (roller) to bigsby seasonally, not like mid-set or anything.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@aaronblack79 Honestly, I don't know. This isn't something I have done or would do. Sorry.

[@aaronblack425]

@@HighlineGuitars Ok, understood. Thank you for helping regardless, I appreciate it.

[@bonzo2842]

Nice. How did you compute the depth of the recess?

[@bt1080]

I’d like to know this too

[@leogauthier4915]

You'll just need to calculate the difference between the height of the string at the nut and the height of the string at the bridge (both measured from the top of the body). Guitars built to have no angle will have these heights line up, somewhere in the range of 10-12 mm. An ungrinded TOM might be set up in the 14-16 mm range. So if your string height at the nut were 10 mm, and 14 mm at the bridge, you could use a 4 mm cavity to get everything squared away. Obviously, since all of these variables can be adjusted to an extent, you're more lining up a range of potential heights to another range of potential heights, ideally with as much intersection as possible. I would see the full range of heights provided by your bridge, and aim for the middle value, before routing anything. This ensures maximum flexibility and room for error.

[@bonzo2842]

Thanks!

[@gordonsteeves9950]

I have just ordered a Fishman TOM power-bridge and it is going in a new slab body that I am building. I have been thinking about doing the recess thing and this video just confirmed it :), Thank you, by the way, what is or how do you know what depth to make the recess. Nope, I don't have a CNC, just a couple of handheld routers.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I go 1/8" to 3/16" deep. When the bridge is in the lowest position, I want the strings to just touch the top of the last fret. If they aren't touching, I'll measure the distance from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret and that is how deep I have to go.

[@gordonsteeves9950]

@@HighlineGuitars Great, thanks

[@Kyush4]

So is the hardtail a much better design than the TOM? What about if you wanted to do a flat neck with a carved top and still put the TOM, do you still need to recess it? sorry for my ignorance.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Yes, you must recess. Unless you don’t mind super high action.

[@andresdp4999]

hi! what is the depth for de bridge?

[@HighlineGuitars]

.125”

[@AppalachianHeritageGuitars]

Interesting process! Do you have a video on recessing the volume and tone controls and why it’s necessary. If not, that might make a good one. Thanks!

[@kjemradio]

PRS started that trend of recessing the tone and volume knobs. One thing it does allow for is using standard height shafts on the pots. In LPs (which are carve top guitars) you have to use two taller shaft pots because of the carved top. So the short shaft pots use the upper holes and the taller shaft use the bottom which makes them the same height.. PRS eliminated that with the recess method. Using a Forstner bit will create the recess. Don't drill this by hand because you might not get a perfect cut. Use a drill press and GO SLOW to avoid chipout.

[@seanmcgill7301]

What was the frothing your route?

[@HighlineGuitars]

??

[@seanmcgill7301]

Lol autocorrect. Depth*

[@seanmcgill7301]

Lol autocorrect. Depth*

[@HighlineGuitars]

About 1/4."

[@robertcoleman7124]

How deep do you route your neck pockets in comparison to your heel to get a nice low action ?

[@themongoloid8944]

I have been wondering about this, except I am curious about making the fretboard level with the guitar body also. It seems like you would get more tones from the woods if the strings were closer to the body

[@fat-hand]

Excellent idea and solution - was looking for such a remedy. How did you know how deep to make the recess?

[@HighlineGuitars]

Before routing the recess, I set the bridge on the body and calculated how much space there would be between the bottom of the string and the top of the frets. That's how deep I made the recess.

[@johnnyvicious3372]

I have a Sx Chinese strat it has a 13 radius and a tune o matic with tail peice. The neck looks just like a strat

[@rickbraig7474]

hi chris! clever idea. question for you about a bridge that sits too low. even with adjusting screws all the down (highest saddle position) the strings still rest on the fret board. would it make better sense to raise the bridge, shave the neck to lower it in the neck pocket, or take some material out of the neck pocket itself to bring the neck down. i appreciate your input!

[@HighlineGuitars]

Any of those options can work, it just depends on the specific guitar. I prefer shaving the heel or deepening the pocket since those solutions are hidden.

[@notfromearth8496]

Great video, and great content as a whole. Thanks for the videos! I'm starting my first build very soon. I'm doing a 58 V replica, and I already have a template. I'm at the point of buying all of my parts now, and I would prefer to build it with a Fender style bridge. Do you have any recommendations on how I need/should modify the template? For example, the neck would no longer need to be at an angle(?), so what would be the most efficient way to go about changing the design? I'm brand new, so please forgive my ignorance :) TIA

[@HighlineGuitars]

No need to angle the neck with a Fender style bridge. Make the neck and fretboard first so you can measure the thickness of the heel (including the fretboard and frets). This will help you to determine the neck pocket depth (neck heel thickness minus the height of the bottom of the string notch in the saddles from the bottom of the baseplate when the saddles are lowered all the way to the baseplate).

[@Allguitarinfo]

A 58 v needs the v shape metal plate thru body .. iconic .imo..they just look so awesome..classic 58 look.. but hope the build turns out nice for you .tough for a first ..set neck. Best to you man .

[@jimbucket2996]

Just wondering how accessable are the intonation screws this way?

[@HighlineGuitars]

With this particular bridge (Gotoh), all of the screws are accessible once the bridge is raised to its optimum height.

[@azzuro195]

Thank you for a video! Very useful ! I'm just planning to recess tunomatic into telly. One quiestion: what do you use for string-through ferrules on top side ? really like the idea...

[@HighlineGuitars]

Search for top string ferrules

[@evanwilliams8908]

I thought I was crazy when I did this. Just couldn’t get the action low enough without shimming the neck

[@DeanSibleyAntiques]

Hi Chris, I only build thru necks & don;t like the idea of back angle ( Gibson owners who have dropped their guitars will tell you why). I wanted a bigsby on my 4th build & ToM roller bridge was most logical choice. This was a no brainer & it was easy to cut rebates for wires( earth soldered to bottom of post) before gluing the body wings on. One big annoyance I have with Bigsby is why do they have a stop to prevent the arm coming across the top of the strings? Surprised me to see "made by Fender" on the Bigsby box! greetings from downunder, Kiwi

[@MarioinRmd]

Hello Chris. Quick question. How much do you typically offset the bass side of the bridge (from perpendicular to the guitar's centre line) to create the angle to help with intonation? I've heard anything from 3 to 6mm. I also like the curved ferrule pattern. If you don't have a jig to do them 100% straight (like me) that method is way more forgiving and looks way better. Thank you.

[@HighlineGuitars]

1/8" or 3.175mm.

[@MarioinRmd]

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you!

[@travelingman9763]

Have you seen how the strings seem to just hover on Wes Montgomery's guitar on youtube(string gauges (058-15 flats). That means well below specs and Id bet Wes would have liked that on those long scale L-5's. Also GB's guitars were set up with no relief and very just above frets from top to bottom on his stage guitars.

[@tommya5957]

Seems like way more work than just filing the bridge itself. I have lowered tunomatic bridges by filing in 10 mins. Unless its stainless steel it is pretty simple to use a hand file.

[@HighlineGuitars]

What if the bridge has to be lowered 1/8" to 1/4" below its original lowest position?

[@ThePercolators2014]

Question: Is there a mathematical formula for how far back from the bridge you drill the string-through holes? Also, I've seen them staggered, at an angle, straight and curved like you did, is there some rhyme or reason for this? I ask because I'd like to match the curve of the back of my guitar but I've only installed Fender-type bridges, this will be my first Tune-o-matic and I love your recess idea, I'm going to do that for sure (although I'll have to do it without a CNC)...Great videos, you're my #1 go-to for instructional vids, especially all your finishing ones (would love it if you did a video on apply solid colors? )

[@HighlineGuitars]

There is no mathematical formula. The holes just need to be back far enough so as not to contact the back edge of the bridge behind the saddles when the bridge is raised to the height it needs to be for proper string action. 2-3" is usually enough.

[@ThePercolators2014]

@@HighlineGuitars Thank you!

[@SRH58]

This is pretty sweet....! Who'd of thunk...!? 😀

[@spikechampkart55]

What do you do for dust control on your CNC? I have one, use my shop vac manually as it runs. Have considered a boot, you? Love your info!!

[@HighlineGuitars]

The Frugal Fixer! Spike I have a 4” dust collector with a brush and a crevice tool. No dust boot. I like to watch the chips fly!

[@spikechampkart55]

Same here, I do love to watch, one emerge from the block!! Thanks for the inspiration. Did you see my Workstand??

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@spikechampkart55 Yes, I did. Pretty cool. Have you seen the new one from StewMac?

[@spikechampkart55]

The one that mounts on a case? Chris

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@spikechampkart55 Yeah, that's the one. The Gig.

[@russellscott1151]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@euroaguitars.drgaspickups8197]

Very cool, what make and model is your cnc, looks like a good unit.

[@HighlineGuitars]

It's a Highline Guitars Super Deluxe Ultra Grand Master Supreme. With turbo. Just kidding. It's my own design and I made it myself.

[@joemcgraw5529]

what happened to your recent video on the bass guitar you were starting ?im assumming they didnt like the wording of the video ,went to watch and removed maybe just reword the title was looking forward to it

[@HighlineGuitars]

I made some edits and it reuploading right now

[@BAMozzy69]

Interesting - but if you are planning to recess the bridge or set he neck flat, wouldn't it make sense to either prepare the template - the one you use for the neck and pick-up routing - which would be easier to do before you commence the build and the carved top or, if you are using CNC, have that recess added to the template so its all done at the same time. Then you don't have to refinish that recess either... As an afterthought, I can see why you have issues with regular templates on a carved top but if you had planned this from the start, it would make sense to adapt the existing template if that's what you use for neck pocket and Pup cavities before you carved...

[@HighlineGuitars]

In a perfect world, yes. However, plans change and you can't always anticipate how. It's no big deal as long as you can adapt on the fly, which I did.

[@BAMozzy69]

​@@HighlineGuitars Of course but if it was to become a regular thing, then it would make sense to adapt your template - whether regular or digital. Even if you do decide not to recess, you aren't messing up your templates as you can just opt not to use that part. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but it still wouldn't hurt adding that to any existing template just in case you consider doing that in the future....

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@BAMozzy69 The project file I created has options for Fender hardtails, Fender tremolos, Floyd Rose tremolos, Hipshot TOMs, and Gotoh TOMs.

[@michaelkern9805]

Great info but most people dont have a CNC machine.

[@HighlineGuitars]

My channel is for people who have a CNC machine.

[@challeis1]

Brilliant

[@daveleighton183]

Did you move you shop from your garage to your basement?

[@HighlineGuitars]

No. I do my setups in the basement.

[@bryantwalley]

That made me nervous when i saw that collet get so close to the edge or the route on the wood.

[@HighlineGuitars]

I live dangerously sometimes.

[@TheSecondNature]

this is a bit crazy

[@HighlineGuitars]

Crazy like a fox!

[@TheDogPa]

A lot of trouble for a badly designed bridge...ever try a Babicz? The OEM type would probably have worked and looked 100% better...IMO.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Sorry, but I think they are too expensive and not very attractive.

[@TheDogPa]

@@HighlineGuitars Babicz OEM style is $119, while the useless Gibson Nashville is around $80...? And the OEM style is way better looking...IMO.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@TheDogPa I use Gotoh and Hipshot TOMs, which I get at the dealer price. Maybe if Babicz offered dealer pricing, I might consider them. And when you say a lot of trouble, it was about 30 minutes of very simple work.

[@TheDogPa]

@@HighlineGuitars From my 'I ain't no luthier' point of view (LOL!) the Babicz OEM seems cheap, excellent work...and beautiful. I'd be quite afraid to get near a valuable guitar with a router...but watching you do it calms my OCD...LOL!

[@ccchicken8889]

I can't stand the feel of the high sitting TOM's, just uncomfortable to me. This would be a game changer :)