Recording a grand piano is TRICKY - here's what I learned.

[@annulrsolformrkelse4023]

*Timestamps for mic-tests:* 05:37 Zoom H5 05:44 DPA 4011A 05:52 Soyuz FET 013 05:59 DPA 4006A 06:06 Soyuz FET 013 06:14 Rode NT2-A 06:21 boths DPAs 06:29 DPA + Soyuz* 06:36 Soyuz + Rode 06:44 Zoom H5 06:54 DPA 4011A 07:03 Soyuz FET 013 07:13 DPA 4006A 07:23 Soyuz FET 013 07:33 Rode NT2-A 07:43 boths DPAs 07:53 DPA + Soyuz* 08:03 Soyuz + Rode 08:13 Zoom H5 08:33 DPA 4011A 08:48 Soyuz FET 013 09:07 DPA 4006A 09:21 Soyuz FET 013 09:41 Rode NT2-A 10:00 boths DPAs 10:14 DPA + Soyuz* 10:33 Soyuz + Rode

[@NahreSol]

Thank you for the time stamps!

[@annulrsolformrkelse4023]

@@NahreSol Thank *you* for the video and knowledge!

[@Bladavia]

What was the piece you played in the last round of tests btw ? Is it one of yours too ? It sounds a bit like Ravel to me. I love it !

[@deus_ex_machina_]

@@NahreSol Hey Nahre if you copy-paste these timestamps into the description with an introduction at 0:00 and a conclusion at 10:51 KZbin will automatically create 'chapters' in the 'seek bar' timeline. Just like this (you can copy-paste it as is): 0:00 Introduction 05:37 Zoom H5 05:44 DPA 4011A 05:52 Soyuz FET 013 05:59 DPA 4006A 06:06 Soyuz FET 013 06:14 Rode NT2-A 06:21 boths DPAs 06:29 DPA + Soyuz* 06:36 Soyuz + Rode 06:44 Zoom H5 06:54 DPA 4011A 07:03 Soyuz FET 013 07:13 DPA 4006A 07:23 Soyuz FET 013 07:33 Rode NT2-A 07:43 boths DPAs 07:53 DPA + Soyuz* 08:03 Soyuz + Rode 08:13 Zoom H5 08:33 DPA 4011A 08:48 Soyuz FET 013 09:07 DPA 4006A 09:21 Soyuz FET 013 09:41 Rode NT2-A 10:00 boths DPAs 10:14 DPA + Soyuz* 10:33 Soyuz + Rode 10:51 Conclusion

[@deus_ex_machina_]

Yay! Got a heart by Nahre and my suggestion was implemented into the description. -Strangely, it appears that the chapters haven't appeared automagically yet- Upon watching KZbin's official video introducing the chapters feature, I realized that the reason it didn't appear is because some timestamps are within 10 seconds of each other. The only way to prevent this would be to group the various setups into 'Hard', 'Medium' and 'Soft' sections, which in this case would defeat the entire purpose of providing timestamps.

[@alongthearc4486]

I like how you use octave as a unit of spatial measurement. "eerrr it's about an octave away"

[@NahreSol]

:D

[@ammyvl1]

My phone's about an octave long

[@avm3562]

Noone: Pianists: measures with octaves (and other intervals) XD

[@SamTahbou]

Arabic speaking people use a similar measurement they call a "shiber" which is top of pinky to tip of thumb on a splayed hand. It's very inaccurate as people have different size hands... But people still use it quite commonly, it's like measuring feet in some sort of awkward steps

[@johanneskepler873]

That's bc it is! Intervals are units measure and also the fundamental units of harmonic structure.

[@rmal88]

As a sound engineer, this only is a testament to the fact that at the end of the day, the artist makes the sound. You can have $5000 worth of a mic locker but if the musician can't play, then thats just a pure waste of money. I loved the sound from ALL the mics tbh. My personal favourite are the Soyuz FET Omnidirectional but even the Zoom was beautiful. Thank you!

[@rodnattrass7021]

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Zoom. I felt that none of them really communicated any low end authority. I really think you need a good large condenser like an AKG414 or similar to capture the low end properly.

[@TheWFamilyMusic]

totally agree!

[@ryanjoo1313]

@@rodnattrass7021 it was probably just the youtube compression, typically piano recordings don't require thumping bass anyhow. Also capturing the low end has more to do with mic placement than the mic itself if they aren't trash.

[@RTGrimmer]

I’ve always had good results in the low end by putting a mic right above the bass bridge, where it connects to the soundboard. Try it and see how you like it.

[@beenmicrophone5817]

@@rodnattrass7021 does the larger condenser size actually correlate to capturing more low end??

[@galvinn]

You know you're a pianist when you measure lengths in intervals 4:51

[@roriartsy]

Hahaaa tru

[@somtamthai9429]

haha

[@zede77]

As a non-american, it still makes more sense to me than the imperial system!

[@galvinn]

@@zede77 I propose we abolish all systems of measuring length and replace it with intervals

[@zede77]

@@galvinn I'd agree with that but after a quick search it seems that there is no standard for the size of an octave. We're doomed.

[@antduude]

I was a sound engineer in another life, so my observations are based on my older experiences. Yes, recording a piano is tricky and so many artists have different ways of approaching it. For example , did you try placing a cardioid mic about 2 feet behind your head? One artist I worked with liked to have a track where he could hear the sound from his POV. Sometimes the track gives a slight presence to the overall recording. I have also placed a mic *under* the piano to get the ambient presence as a solo track to work with. The artist and the engineer can have two completely different concepts of what makes a good recording and this is where a good Producer can be a godsend. Also, looking at the room, you have a lot of glass to work with, which is not at all great for recording. All kinds of reflections and slap-back can occur that will spoil the recording. Besides closing the curtains, were you able to use any sound baffles, like big foam rubber patches you see in studios? This helps a lot, even for small home studios. I realize you were borrowing the space as well as the piano(thanks, Romano family), so things like blankets, foam rubber in key places to deaden echoes, etc, are one way to help control the sound of the room without causing too much chaos. You have a beautiful piano to work with, but your recording environment is at least as important, if not more so, to your end result. On headphones, I personally liked the DPA 4011s for their warmth and presence in overall sound quality. KZbin compression really crushes the high frequencies, so it's sometimes hard to tell the difference in mics because the high end is rolled off so much. I think your mic placement is fine for your sessions but as you do this more, you will find the subtleties and sound qualities that you like best. Looking forward to listening to your new album when it's available. Best of luck.

[@JoeARedHawk275]

Lol you were you Jekyll and Hyde?

[@spektrograf]

Great write up of considerations-esp. with room acoustics! Agreed on the DPA’s. The Soyuz with omnis came close spaced parallel config, but was missing some of the detail of the DPA’s. Thanks for sharing, Nahre!

[@DaleBoyce2012]

It would have been a very different experience at 96k @ 24bit. And the room is as large a character in this story as the instrument. There are standing waves everywhere in the recording, the lid, the walls, the floor. But it is a very objective comparison of the microphones. I have to say that the consistency of the performance was very impressive.

[@kalilavalezina]

Wow! Thank you for your comment! Very insightful and helpful!

[@CristianMunoz-wb3rv]

Nahre, I look forward to the day you release your album. Each and every piece you've put out has inspired me, and this album will undoubtedly be a highlight of the year for me. Good luck with wrapping it all together! :)

[@NahreSol]

Thank you so much! It means a lot to me!

[@braydendukes6633]

I'm seeing this 4 years after you made the video, but now that I am starting my own music production journey, this video is absolute gold and you are the most likeable and relatable person ever

[@truecuckoo]

It was very interesting to hear the different setups! I love nerding out like that! I think the double DPA pairs had an extremely acoustic sound, like you were right there in the room, almost like a documentary. But I agree about your remarks on the 013. Their involvement had a certain little shine appear in, that I’m finding hard to explain. I have used the Soyuz 013 in a crappy room on my small upright piano. I tried a lot (with pretty blurry outcomes), but for my situation they really opened up when I used Hypercardioid capsules and put them close to the strings. I somehow had to end up fighting the room, instead of making use of the room. Mic’ing a grand in a nice room though is mysterious to me. I’m So happy for you that you got to have this close collaboration with your engineer!

[@ezrashanti]

Soyuz seem nice as a slightly thicker vibey sdc, but wow, I've never heard DPAs and they were my favorite by far in this shootout. Beyer MC930 is a very underrated sdc at a reasonable pricepoint.

[@AimeeNolte]

Great video, Nahre! It was so fun listening to all those mic setups. Anyone looking to start a channel ought to see that the zoom is a great place to start. I liked the Rode pair the best!

[@uchekennedyYT]

Aimeeeee Nolteee!!! Great teacher

[@tallikimanimusic7127]

Aimee!

[@ctld5266]

I Agree,, they sound the best

[@markfyt1]

I’m impressed by how good the Zoom H5 sounds. Either that or my “made-in-the-60’s” ears have achieved vintage status

[@oldnikix]

I am very happy with my ZOOM H4N Pro. Essential kit for any musician.

[@fbcpraise]

I'm with you on this. Very impressed.

[@williamwatson1532]

A coincident pair must always be a good starting point for stereo. But do KZbinrs always listen with headphones or through a stereo setup? Probably not!

[@DaleSteadman]

That is funny, but sad. I am with you bro!

[@BUCKSHOTSTV]

I chose the DPA and Soyuz set up before she mentioned she went with that combo, but I was extremely impressed with the h5 and commented that the h5 recordings were excellent because of her playing that it’s not even noticeable unless directly compared to the other set ups. Most people wouldn’t even know the difference when listening as there wouldn’t be a reference to hear it against by the same person. I chose the dpa and soyuz, but the h5 holds its own!

[@TheSaniwaa]

The end result for me is that those Soyuz miss are fantastic = They sounded way more lively to me, especially place further away they are the most musical of the lot - the DPA 4011A sounded more analytical, and the Rode had more of a room sound, but the notes just seemed to bloom more with the Soyuz. Great video !

[@NahreSol]

Thank you!!

[@wokex]

At first I must say preferred the setup with the DPA 4011A & DPA 4006A mics( 7:42 ) but after a few repeated listenings I think you're right about the Soyuz ( 7:52 )... The soyuz sounded almost a little sharp(?) when close to the piano but very detailed and alive further away. The DPA's sounded like they had a larger soundstage with a.. "rounder" sound though, but I ended up liking the Soyuz sound ;) Edit: I forgot to mention, beautiful music Nahre! Can't wait to hear the whole pieces, especially the one from the 8:13 testing.

[@hansmemling7605]

@@wokex i agree. The DPA's had a rounder and wider sound to me than the Soyuz. But the Soyuz was crispy and brighter in comparison at times. The Rhode for me doesn't come close to those 2.

[@Peer_Review]

@@wokex Yeah DPA sounded warmer and Soyuz sounded brighter. With the Soyuz further away though I think it captured the resonance a lot better than the DPA that was placed further back and added fullness without being too bright.

[@wokex]

@@Peer_Review Really well put!

[@earlfsmith]

As a film composer i'm recording piano quite often. Everyone has there option own how to achieve the best results. Mic placement is everything and i'm happy to see you testing. So many great classical performances out there with not so great recordings. I prefer using 5 mics. To pencil mics in the piano close to the hammers, my modified u47 at the the feet of the bass strings, and two additional pencil mic outside the piano pointed at the piano (one behind the other at different lengths). Main thing to watch for is phasing and the mic outside the piano would be placed based on the natural acoustics of the room. Without that u47 i find most piano recording to lack the low end growl. Looking forward to buying your album and happy to hear it's being made.

[@WarrenPostma]

Any pencil mic recommendations for people on a budget?

[@RanDieBam]

"Pencil mics" sounds so cute! lol Is that an actual expression overseas or your own invention? :D

[@RanDieBam]

@@WarrenPostma Try looking into Lewitt Mics! I have heard a lot of good stuff about them and they're quite affordable. The 040s are 185€ a pair and if you wanna have more switches and options then the 140 AIRs are 290€ a pair. Those are just cardioid, which are useful for most stuff. But if wanna have a more open sound, got a good room and want to have all the aspects of it recorded, then omnidirectional mics (or mics with switchable capsules) are the way to go.

[@earlfsmith]

@@RanDieBam I'm not sure what you consider overseas or where in the world your located but here in Los Angeles in all the major studios which i work out of mostly, this is what we call them. All the engineers ive worked with located in London also uses this term. My understanding is it's widely excepts as common studio language.

[@earlfsmith]

@@WarrenPostma in my option best thing to do is to rent different mics and see what you like. The biggest issue is different mics will sound differently based on audio interface as well as mic pres. The mic pre makes all the difference in the world. I personally like Neumanns. Any Km series will sound great. If you have no money then i say find a shure sm81 or akg 451. There is no one way to record a piano. I rather have one really good mic than 5 inexpensive mics that have cheap chinese capsules in them. Renting is always a great way to go as well.

[@Bibbzyy]

This video makes things seem so much more attainable. It’s still stressful and I feel like I’m going in blind because my “recording technology” courses as a music major were “here’s Sibelius and Finale and this is what they look like”, but this gives me the energy to just go for it and do my best!

[@ronchiles399]

You're not only a great pianist and student of many styles, you're an excellent communicator and moderator in life. A very special personality and hearr.

[@dizlerimkupsis]

Growing a sense of preferred mic placement on your otherwise acoustic instrument is an interesting opportunity in terms of artistic choice. You can imagine a percussionist or drummer practicing only with mics, maybe even only specific mics with specific placement as if that is the part of instrument. As opposed to a musician who is involved with the instrument itself and grow the aural habits only with organic sounds coming from it. It comes down to a choice for the musician to make how much of the output she wants to consciously alter. You may call it artistic responsibility. In turn, it could change the way you play your instrument to match the texture you want to capture with mics, perhaps otherwise impossible to hear. By the way, people who upload their music online and demand their friends to listen to it with headphones are also part of this responsible community. Looking forward to hear the album! Such an humble musician sincerely sharing her evergrowing curiosity, so inspiring!

[@Transterra55]

After I listened to all songs with headphones, I was happy to see (and hear) that you chose the same configuration as I did (DPA 4011 A and Soyuz FET 013). Excellent video. Thanks for the upload.

[@Dan-Black]

4:51 - Haha, only a pianist would measure distance in octaves. (I love it!) This is really cool. I was mic-ing a grand piano in our church once, and of course I was limited to the mics we had on hand, and was mic-ing singers and other instruments as well, and of course they had very limited attention spans… so the best I could come up with before everyone got there (i.e., maybe an hour or two to set up my computer and experiment with the mics and resulting recordings) was to stick one of the vocal mics by that curve of the piano similar to what you had -- but only one mic, and I put it in farther, inside the piano, not too far above the strings (maybe half an octave to an octave… haha). The sound quality actually turned out pretty nice for what we were doing, and it was just a one-off recording, so not as big a deal as if we were doing something on a recurring basis. But it's really nice to see these specifics if you have more equipment and need a more professional recording. And I love that you have all the different options with the stats and images on the screen while we hear the recordings. Very nice way to compare them! This lets us get a better idea of what we can do, even if it's not the same choice you make -- others may want a different sound or might have budget limitations. (And, as you mention, the room makes a big difference in the sound, too. I feel like the closer you get the mics to the piano, the less difference you get from the room, though. Obviously, you have to turn the gain down, too.) You ended up mixing mics together. I've also found (in my very limited experience) that can give you a good "best of both worlds" sound mix. (I've also found that's true for mixing speakers and even speaker enclosures for setting up a home theater system.)

[@samvitpremsinghal9460]

No one is talking about how you set up mics for a piano and singers in under 2 hours. Props to you dude!!

[@caplaz7257]

There is nothing such like "the perfect setup" it's very much how you want to you use sounds as colours and paint, your red is never going to be like mine due to micro variables that at the end are not important, and also makes the whole thing special. As musician and music producer, I think this proves that at the end of the day the artists will make the sound he likes, and experimenting with sounds makes music worthy to make and live with the joy of creation. I follow you since a while and I very much like your expression and mindset which you use to experience music and live about it, it's always a pleasure to see you videos

[@boldandthebeautifulgimbal2881]

Wow. I’m just about 5mins in and you are blowing my mind. I don’t know where to begin. Your playing is amazing. You want to capture every sound coming from the piano. Keys to creaks of the pedals. And your knowledge on recording sound. I’m seriously impressed and admiring.

[@boldandthebeautifulgimbal2881]

I wish I had a setup worthy of critical listening. A few mics I can hear harsh 2nd maybe 3rd order distortion. The stereo field changes a few times. But without the right sound reproduction setup I can’t hear enough sonic information.

[@jennifer86010]

Hi Nahre, I'm a pianist who discovered and developed the most accurate piano recording technique. It's based on some simple solid principles: 1. The piano is a stereo instrument, not a monaural instrument. 2. The sound does not emanate out the side of the piano. 3. A propped up piano lid does not act like the bell of a large brass horn. 4. The only person in the room who hears the piano correctly is the pianist. I made these discoveries by walking around a grand piano, lying underneath it, and sticking my head in it while it was being played. Here is what I discovered: 1. The true stereo sound of the piano emanates off the top of the strings, not out the side of the piano. The pianist hears high notes in his/her right ear, middle notes with both ears, and bass notes in the left ear. This is stereo. 2. The audience hears a monaural sound, not stereo, because they sit at a 90 degree right angle to the hammers, whereas the pianist sits parallel to the hammers and strings, hearing true stereo. 3. Propping up the lid only funnels the monaural sound toward the audience. It doesn't help the audience hear stereo piano a single bit. The monaural sound is a mixture of all notes with no separation between lows on the left, and highs on the right. 4. The funnel sound point on the side of the piano is exactly where the prop stick is positioned. This is also where the hammers line up at 90 degrees in a straight line to the audience, so the audience is actually hearing all the 88 strings lined up like train cars, one behind the other, all coming toward their ears. This is why they can't hear stereo piano, like a stereo sound system. Instead of a left and right speaker, both speakers are stacked on top of each other and the audience hears a funneled mixture of monaural sound. 5. The articulation of each note emanates from each hammer striking its strings. This articulation, particularly in soft passages, is lost when sitting in the audience, because the audience can't hear any separation between strings which are being played and strings which are already sustaining notes. RECORDING TECHNIQUE: To record the true stereo piano, you will need at least two microphones (expensive or not) and at least two recording tracks in your recorder on which to record. The mics should be on boom stands so they can be positioned, suspended above the hammers, and placed facing down toward the hammers and strings about 12-18 inches above them, depending on the intensity and volume level of the musical work being recorded. Closer micing for pp and farther micing for fff overall volume levels. Depending on the intensity and volume level of the music to be recorded, the right mic should be about 12-18 inches in from the right side of the piano rim, and the left mic also about 12-18 inches in from the left side of the piano case rim, both suspended above the strings facing down toward them. If you have a third track on which to record, and another mic, place it in the middle of these two mics, 12-18 inches above the hammer of middle "C". THE ESSENCE OF THE PIANO'S SOUND: Keep in mind that the key to understanding exactly where the piano sound emanates, is knowing that it is completely dependent upon the hammer hitting its strings. The "hammer-string" relationship is the equivalent of a violinist using a finger to pluck a string. Your finger's extension is the hammer. It is the thing that articulates your expression upon the strings. The soundboard is only an amplifier of this. So understanding that this "hammer-string" event is the essence of the piano's sound, results in a conclusion of placing microphones, directed at the hammers and strings. This sound is what you listen for when you play, and it's what you expect the piano to produce when you touch the keys. Now, these mics will hear exactly what your ears hear when you play the piano. After you make your recording, you should mix the tracks appropriately according to your natural hearing. Right track panned fully right, left track panned fully left, and center mic dead center. You can E.Q. the tracks as needed for richness in bass on the left channel, and crispness of treble in the right channel. This technique is the most accurate way to record piano. If you have extra tracks and extra mics, you can place a couple inside the piano over the strings, but they will only be a redundancy of what the "over the hammers" mics have already recorded. For decades, engineers have been incorrectly recording piano, mostly because they falsely believe that the raised lid of a piano is like the bell of a large horn where the sound comes from. Wrong. Secondly, engineers don't know how a piano is supposed to sound, since they don't play piano, and they don't sit on the bench when listening to it. Conversely, pianists are not recording engineers. Neither understand what to do, because they live in different worlds. If I hadn't been a pianist who learned recording techniques and then experimented with both, I would never have discovered how to accurately record piano. MICROPHONES: The cost or quality of your microphones is far less important than your placement of them. I've made great piano recordings with inexpensive mics, (dynamic or condenser cardioid pattern costing less than $500 each) because the piano was rich in tone and well tuned. I've also made lousy recordings using very expensive mics ($1,500 - $3,500 each) because the piano was not well voiced or regulated, and it was out of tune. I recommend cardioid pattern mics, but keep in mind that the world of microphones is similar to the world of pianos. Some people believe they can only play well on a concert grand Steinway, Bosendorfer or Fazioli. Others, who are really good musicians, can get a great sound out of a baby grand Yamaha, or even a vertical piano because they are skilled musicians. You don't need expensive mics to make good recordings. It is your recording approach and technique that is most important. PIANO TUNING: One thing that is critically important is the fact that the piano MUST be in tune to get a good recording. Everyone who listens to professionally recorded piano music has listened to a piano which was freshly tuned before the recording session. If the piano is out of tune, the mics will pick it up and the recording will amplify it. The human ear is very forgiving when listening to live music, and it adjusts to and compensates for out-of-tune instruments. Most pianists and piano students are not real familiar with what a tuned piano sounds like, since piano tuning can be expensive, and most pianists are less concerned with the piano's sound and more focused on playing the musical work. They are used to playing on out-of-tune pianos. But if you intend to make any piano recording which is going to be played for public consumption, you must make sure the piano is freshly in tune. If it is not, your recording will sound cheap, sour, and bad. In this case, I recommend using an electric piano which is in tune, over an acoustic piano which is out of tune. Regarding your Zoom recorder, which has a built-in X/Y microphone pattern...it can make very good piano recordings if mounted to a boom stand which can suspend it about 12-18 inches above the hammers facing down toward the strings, above middle "C". It won't be quite as full as using two separate mics described above, but it will still represent the true stereo sound the pianist hears. In summary, I suggest you try this recording approach. It took me several years to discover and perfect it, and it won me a Grammy nomination. It will be the best approach to deliver the true stereo sound of the piano, which is exactly what you hear when you play it. Good luck !!

[@DavidBarilAlmonte]

Of all the comments I've read on this post, this one makes the most sense. I've been trying to find info on the microphone placement that Glenn Gould used in his recordings and I think this method is probably pretty close.

[@jennifer86010]

@@DavidBarilAlmonte When Glenn Gould recorded the Goldberg Variations in 1955 (Gould's first and original recordings of this work) he recorded at Columbla Studios in New York. They recorded it in monaural not stereo. They used a large studio, as was the norm then for a bit of echo, and they used large RCA ribbon microphones, placed near the side of the piano, and at about 10 feet back and 7 feet up on a boom. The engineers back then, believed that this would mimic a concert hall effect. They were wrong. The acoustics in concert halls vary tremendously, depending on the size, the number of people in the room and a hundred different variables. Even so, a concert hall is the worst place to hear any soloing instruments because of competing sounds and the distance from the ear to the instrument. Most recordings of piano, either in studio or in live concert performances, are sub standard, because there is too much noise, competing sounds and incorrect mic placement. Engineers still fail to understand the sound of stereo piano. They continue to place mics in the same places that they have been placing them since recordings began. They never question this placement, because they never experiment with mic placement, mainly because they are NOT pianists, so they don't hear what the pianist hears. To answer your comment, my microphone placement approach is not at all what the Columbia Records engineers used. They used the standard old method I described above which is the raised-lid piano side addressed by at least two or more microphones. But since there was no competing sound in the studio at the time of his recordings, and since the Steinway model "D" concert grand piano was in perfect tune, the recordings that Glenn Gould made came out very well. There could have been greater separation between the bass and treble sections of the recording, however the Goldberg Variations were recorded before stereo recordings were really perfected, and certainly before stereo recordings were in wide distribution for public consumption. If it is of any help, try to keep in mind that while listening to Gould's recordings, it is far less important to pay attention to the sound quality and far more important to pay attention to the composed music and to Gould's playing. Since the recording is good, it is not something that requires any attention or concern. It is his marvelous playing that catches the ear and commands the imagination of the listener. With regard to microphones, I have made great piano recordings using cheaper low grade mics in correct stereo placement when a piano was in tune, vs. crummy piano recordings using top grade Neumann microphones, placed in traditional monaural positions on out-of-tune pianos. If a recording engineer gets the most important aspects of a recording set-up correct, the importance of using high-priced microphones is minimal if not even unimportant. Too many people have placed too much importance on expensive recording gear and not enough importance on proper approach. Real talent and artistic ability always sounds great regardless of how much the recording equipment costs.

[@DouglasRosser]

This interaction now makes sense Jake - "What happened to the Bluesmobile?" Elwood - "I traded it for a microphone." Jake - "..ok"

[@moeinyzz4624]

This demonstration is gold. Clearing up so much stuff. Thanks Nahre!

[@CCMelodies]

Love this educational/process content Nahre. Keep it up and keep experimenting!!!!!!

[@NahreSol]

Thank you!!

[@kwasibempong2440]

Love your videos. Always informative❤❤❤

[@NahreSol]

Thank you!!

[@smashingairguitars]

I could listen to these sound test all day. Your playing is such a treat and really gets right to my heart. Can't wait to check out the album when it drops. Good luck!

[@jongruver598]

I’m currently in the same boat and was glad to see that I’m not alone in these challenges. The four mic setup that you decided upon sounded the best to me out of all of them. Your music sounds super dope and I can’t wait to get the album when it comes out!

[@DefektiveEnvy]

Thank you so much for this! I have been playing grand piano my whole life but recording, audio mixing, etc is new and intimidating to me.

[@hobbyvideos2706]

Thanks for sharing this amazing journey. AND for providing all the details about height, angle, distance, levels etc. Super helpful for other pianists struggling with this black art of recording!

[@anonymoustrusty483]

Hands down, nothing was able to come close to the DPAs. Here in my Contour's/Bryston/Van Den Hul room, the 4006's made me feel like I was in your room with the piano right in front of me. Sooo 3D, detailed, deep, sweet transients, and beautiful tone, OMG. With both DPAs together, what a full sound (and the phase is perfect), congrats for achieving it. Not easy at all!

[@keiser6656]

DPA 4011A + Soyuz is my favorite setup of every whom you showed. Harmonics gave me shivers with this one. Glad you decided to go for it !

[@seanemmettfullerton]

Thank you Nahre. What a wonderful test! OMG, love love love DPA. I do realize that these are very expensive, but wow - incredible width and depth and tone. Plus super nice playing too... :)

[@dabistudio_japan]

Excellent video Nahre! I think your album will be great! I’m really looking forward to listen to it.

XY stereo setup (that you did for close mics) is the least favorite stereo setup for me. I'd like to recommend you to use both stereo as AB (aka spaced pair) or ORTF for close mics and spaced pair for far mics. Also, when recording grand piano, the height of microphone stand will drastically change the sound so you can experiment with it. By the way, you can get an interesting recording using XY and Spaced pair both for close mics. You can put XY between spaced pair. Try it!

[@dalepistilli6800]

Amazing video. Just starting out on recording adventure. Love the piece you were playing

[@EstebanRV]

Thank you! This has been bugging me for a while now, and seeing the notification pop up with you explaining was a no brainer. Not only is it quite educational for a non engineer, it's fun to watch.

[@rickrockzyootoob]

Thanks! Useful video and audio! Without knowing what the room sounds like, for me, I really started hearing tonal differences on your 'soft pedal' performances, especially once the Rode mics got introduced, and in the later DPA/Soyuz mic combos. But for me, I always thought it sounded better whenever the Rode mics came in. Appreciated your insight.

[@JoelJacksStudio]

You have inspired me! I compose, produce and love music and now I'm even more inspired to do what I do. Thank you for the fresh air!

[@TheOnlyJoeyYT]

Great to see this journey from the perspective of a musician! As a audio engineer myself (recorded a decent amount of piano throughout the years) it is interesting to see what you were looking for in sound and practicality. The solution you ended up with fits both! The only thing I personally am missing from this setup (preference) is a good Tube or Omni cardioid LDC miced at the center of the piano, relatively high. This for me has always been the mic i used the most to get the full ambiance and power of the piano and get a bit of natural room harmonics and reverb into the recording. The combination of the pair of SDC's like you had setup close with the center mic is close to how I generally start my piano setups (when not doing spaced pair or 'musicians perspective')

[@davidrick959]

I'm late to the party but I've engineered many piano recordings and I'm familiar with all of those microphones except the Soyuz. My usual choice for classical work is a DPA 4006 pair but the 4011's were very good in your situation and they instantly made me think I was in a jazz club. I didn't much like the Soyuz pair on their own, but I agree they added something attractive when augmenting the DPA 4011's. Another way to achieve that effect might be to add diffraction balls to the DPA 4006's. Anyway, congratulations on your recording progress and a tip of the hat to your engineer for guiding you through the process so effectively.

[@WilliamFreeman]

@Nahre, I have always struggled with the mic'ing thing. It's even trickier mic'ing an organ. Thanks for the video. This is a topic that needs more discussion within the music community.

[@maestrotheoretically519]

Love this nahre! Next time I play at a concert I'll keep this in mind because the piano always sounds quiet and bassy. Thanks so much! Love your videos always!

[@Mtaalas]

It's not easy or simple, that's why we have audio engineers and recording technicians etc. of which i'm one. Can you do it on your own? Yes. Will it be as good as someone who knows exactly what they're doing? No. But there's no one "best" sound, they're all different. Every technique creates different balance, different stereo field, different mood.. every mic creates different phase relationships different frequency response, different resonances... and they all might work for different mood and it depends on the song and feeling you want to achieve on what you need, So yeah. Keep your audio technicians employed! :D

[@NahreSol]

Yes!! Keep sound engineers employed. They are so necessary and essential to the music world and the craft itself is so fine.

[@nikkivanzanen]

So true! But if you don't want to make albums and just personal recordings for yourself and your students, hiring a sound engineer is unaffordable. And this way we could still get decent enough results. So thank you for sharing!

[@reeread]

Thank You, I really enjoyed the video. Recording 24bit / 96k for grand piano was the correct choice. The microphone choice was smart using the x-y configuration and the high boomed stereo bullet microphones. I would say to use a larger capsule condenser microphone but you did try that with the NT 2’s. Your sound is clean and I did not hear any phase or cancelation. It’s a good idea that you got a second set of ears on the project with the engineer. The room itself is always the biggest struggle but you have a clean recording that captured what happened as far as I can tell. Brava!

[@francoisgagnon4467]

I'm a trained pianist and an IT guy, two different careers I pursued independently. But this puts it all together, I love it! Thanks a lot! And I must add that I REALLY enjoyed the choice of music you put in this video, different, very nicely interpreted. I will buy your album. Good luck!

[@NURREDIN]

Al Schmitt uses two Neumann M149s in omni mode "usually a couple of feet off the high end and a couple of feet off the low end, kind of at 45 degrees to each other". That's ALL I need to know. If you can't get hold of the Neumanns, use two tube mics with a decent frequency response.

[@lawtechguy]

This is some really great info! I only recently purchased a baby grand and went to re-record a few pieces for friends when I realized the sound I'm able to capture isn't just bad, it's like nails on a chalkboard with the distortions and screeching. Ultimately, I'm not sure I want spend more than a couple hundred on a mic setup, but I was blown away by how good the Zoom H5 was on its own. That said, my favorite was also probably what you chose, but just the twin Rode NT2-A was really, really good. I think the omnidirectional setups were better than the XY cardiods, but obviously combining the two gets really great results. I'm sure you have some really good acoustics in your room as well since it seems omni won't work for a lot of people in smaller rooms. As for me, I'm still not sure what I want to do since my recordings are just for me/friends/family.

[@skane3109]

Listening to this 3 years later is a little surreal. Your Alice in Wonderland album has been released for some time now and with every listen i grow to appreciate it more and more. To see the deep experimentation that went into just the mic-ing of the piano alone makes me love the alchemy of the album even more ❤

[@McJeffersonAgloro]

The DPA + Soyuz setup gave those key actions and its sound sparkle. It’s the sweet spot in my opinion. This is a very thorough video. I appreciate your efforts for giving us all the audio set up comparisons. :)

[@GusAndrade]

The Soyuz in omni sound amazing in basically every example. Awesome video, Nahre!

[@HM-mq3hh]

Oh man, thanks so much for this video. I’m in the process of doing some piano recordings but am at a loss of the many choices in microphones, digital recording program…you are so amazing. Love what you do ❤ thank you thank you for sharing your time and talents.

[@hungry4wake]

While watching I decided the 4011A / FET 013 combo was really special and my first choice. So glad that's what you went with! Great video, really helpful as an engineer to be able to share this with my musician friends.

[@JohannesSNugroho]

Really appreciate what you are doing here to share!!! I just became a youtuber a year ago and still experimenting with different settings of mic and i only use H2N ... so far i learn i love the omnidirectional, the XY is to dry ... i can hear now different setting (without having headaches of setting up and moving around) from your numerous sample! Again, really appreciate! Thank you. I prefer for my taste the omnidirectional, richer, sweeter while still carries the articulation.

[@TravelingCello]

Thanks for showing your experimentation with us. So interesting. DPA 4011A + Soyuz FET 013 sounded quite nice.

[@j_drichmond]

I like the chimniness you get from the what you settled on-that’s a very beautiful piano tone.

[@johnplatter4535]

So grateful for your efforts in putting out this video! Learned a lot. Can't wait to listen to your album too!

[@loganmccurdy1328]

Very excited for the album. I agree with the choice you guys made on the microphone setup. Sounds great.

[@YotamIshay]

I've been actually recording my upright piano back home. I decided to use the middle (felt) pedal throughout the entire album. Just because I love the sound and also because the "normal" sound was too harsh and too big for the room. I'm only using Zoom h4n (top of piano) & an SM57 (bottom of piano) with very specific angles. In the meantime, I can say that the signal sounds beautiful! Experiencing different sounds and placements is a delight for me. It feels festive & creative. It's also frustrating because when you're recording at home you have to turn off the fan & AC, close the windows, etc (especially in this very soft setting of the piano). It becomes pretty hot very quickly so I just have a cup of ice nearby at all times 😅

[@phishyfrank4135]

Nahre, you channel is the coolest, thanks. You seem super cool. Sending the best vibes

[@jean_c_santos]

. The mic tests really show how the recording process differs from the playing process, and mic in themselves are separate instruments. Leaves alot to consider when placing mics.

[@CHEpachilo]

For me, as a sound engeneer it was obvious that you will choose DPA + Soyuz combo. It sounds fantastic! "Close-miked" DPA sounds alright, but Soyuz in the distance gives a very nice mid freq boost, making the whole thing sound a little more round warm and intimate. Thanks for nice tests, I learned a lot here!

[@ronl7131]

...can’t wait til ya’ get a CD out...you are very creative, many piano sounds from Ms. Nahre....

[@Xolin11]

I love how you say "Now let's go practice" like it's a relief from all the engineering work. 😅

[@Dragon_Warrior7625]

Sounds like twoset ...

[@lisamarieseaman8847]

I agree with the set up that you ended up going with. It has a lot more depth than the others.

[@LardBucket_]

So grateful for content like this

[@colinellicott9737]

I'm beginning this grand piano recording journey. I suspected it would be tough, but this really showed me the agony and ecstasy. Thx.

[@endresleby6339]

Very cool! Good job. Just a quick tip that KINDA relates: if you some day record piano together with a bunch of other instruments (Drums, bass, guitar, vox and horns, for instance), it can often be useful to remember that the mix will usually be too busy to incorporate a wide, intimate and detailed stereo image of your piano. In those instances it can be enough with just one well-placed mic, or a narrow stereo pair. Also, it can be very useful to think about how close or far away you want the piano in the mix before recording. I understand this example is for solo piano, but for those who want to play with a full band it can help to simplify the setup since there will be so many competing elements. Happy experimenting!

[@KP-xl6rs]

I'm not a pianist, but I am trying to figure out more about microphones. I really appreciate you sharing your process of learning. I love what you're creating and I'm excited to see more what you will do. Cheers!

[@DavidDemuynck]

I recently had a recording session on a grand piano and I had the engineers place my M-Audio Sputnik under the piano 20cm from the underside and about in the middle of the piano. This combined with a similar mic placing as you. They ended up using the Sputnik the most for the warmth it gave to the sound.

[@samueljoseph1867]

Thats seriously a lot of recording samples. Needs much patience. And its sounds good. Hats off to engineer who conveyed everything to you in setting up. And your dedication is astonishing. Hats off

[@NahreSol]

Thank you!!

[@jarkkoriihimäkimusic]

I love your devotion and the curiosity for learning new stuff! Respect☺️👍🎼 As a fellow pianist I found this very interesting, I am also taking my first steps with recording my grand at home. And - I also preferred the combination you chose, it had both warmth and clarity. Thumbs up, looking forward to hearing the album!

[@antoniomaccagnan7200]

Just saw this video, very interesting. Congratulations for taking this challenge. I'm presently exterimenting with the Priceton BitKlavier library that offers 9 different microphone perspectives and chosing the right combination is quite a task. I play jazz and so far lean toward a pair of cardioid mics at the lip and another pair more widely set at 9 feet from the piano. Mixing 3 mics is tempting but also a lot more tricky.

[@grahamriedel5043]

What a fantastic video! Thank you so much for sharing the results in such an easy to follow and very detailed way all of your work! Your story resonates so strongly with where I’m at in my own journey right now! I have a good friend who is an audio engineer, and he and a few of his music friends have just started helping me make a plan, set up what I’ve got, pick ideal new equipment/mics and work in what I’ve already invested in for recording and streaming piano. My setup is similar to yours .. beautiful sounding grand piano in a very acoustic open room. Watching this has really helped me figure out my next few steps, and I feel like they are much better steps than the ones I’d have made before watching this. 🙏🏻

[@TurtleRawrrs]

Yay! So glad you chose the DPA and the Soyuz! Sometimes mic setup can be dependent on the recording artist's style too, I think it brought out more of your personal touch compared to the DPA combo

[@yz9387]

Fantastic video as always! Love the spirit-just keep leaning!

[@RobertSaxy]

I’m a huge fan of yours, can’t wait to hear the album. Also really appreciate the knowledge and the sharing of the process

[@andrewwunrow]

I listed to this on studio monitors, not headphones, so my own room probably affected my judgement somewhat, but I really like the Soyuz and Rode combo at 6:36 and 8:02! It sounded the cleanest in the high end, and the least muddy in the low end to me. Also that combo didn't have as much reverb baked into the recording (as primarily a producer I absolutely LOVE dry signals). However, for the soft pedal piece my favorite was actually the two pairs of DPAs, at 10:00. Anyway, enough rambling. Great job Nahre, they all sound fantastic, and I'm excited for your album!

[@jacobaddison4638]

I came for the experimentation, stayed for the soundbites of your lovely compositions.

[@PSSST100]

Another great video Nahre! I always enjoy watching them since they are helpful and informative and like the way you put them together. As someone who has worked around sound and music for many years you are completely on the right track with DPA mics and positioning which are both tried and tested methods and choice of many professionals. I would also add that your other choices are also good too and there are also lots more options from makes such as AKG, Scheops, Neumann, etc. It's an endless but fascinating quest as you have found but someone with your talents needs to capture your artistry as best you can especially with a fantastic instrument like the one you have available.

[@NahreSol]

Thank you so much!! These mics and positioning methods have been a part of my initial project of this sort. I found mics difficult to acquire in general - renting, borrowing, even buying... but yes! So many options. I'm afraid to raise me antennas more on this since it'll be dangerous for my wallet 😂

[@PSSST100]

Yes buying microphones can get expensive as I know too well! I briefly spoke with a work colleague who has done lots or sound balancing for orchestral and various musical ensembles and he made one interesting point - "bear in mind that the classical sound of a grand piano only develops at some distance from the instrument really". So I guess what he is saying is that the distance of the outer pair of mics can make a lot difference to the overall sound you are trying to capture so experiment as much as you can. I guess this also brings the sound of the room more into play too which is also quite important. You do look like you have a lovely big, high room to record in though which is great! I hope all goes well and look forward to hearing the results!

[@timedwards7338]

In a course on sound engineering I did last year for university, due to limitations on mic choices, we generally stuck to a pair of either Rode NT-5's or NT2-A's in a figure-8 pickup pattern (in order to utilise the room sound as well as the piano itself), which sounded fantastic, but if you have access to higher quality microphones, that always helps! It amazing to hear the night-and-day difference between the Zoom and the other microphones. I really enjoy the clarity of the DPA4006 and Soyuz mics, but i find it tricky hearing the differences in higher frequencies due to pretty bad tinnitus :/ I really enjoy these kinds of mic comparisons, especially with the varying styles you've used here. Fantastic video Nahre!

[@ДаниилКириллов]

All jokes aside, this is super valuable. I’m a pianist, now if I would ever want to record a grand piano, I have all the information I need. FANTASTIC

[@ignacioarrojo3723]

Un vídeo para agradecer. Muchas gracias por el esfuerzo. All the best!

[@charlenegingerich9757]

So glad I found your video! Helpful - but also, I just love your style as a musician! Thanks for putting yourself out there into the world.

[@v12-steffen]

What a great video, thank you Nahre. I NEED THIS ALBUM!!!

[@lordmjh]

Excellent job paying attention to detail as you set up this experiment. What's more is the fact that you utilized a sound engineer to help talk you through what to do, kind of like how I talk people through how to fix their car. Overall you started out with an excellent piano and decent room. The universal audio seems to be a standard and solid choice for your audio interface. People use different recording Daws such as Reaper, PreSonus, Cubase, Pro Tools, and Cakewalk by bandlab to name a few. Excellent detail when taking up the microphones for your comparison. If you titled your video as a mic comparison to those various other microphones you picked, it would have helped people make choices between the type of microphones they want to have and how they would sound on a professional instrument with a professional musician getting the full potential out of those microphones. I'm looking at some Austrian audio microphones. I heard good audio comparisons with the Austrian Audio OC818 at cost of about $1,200 a piece.Soyuz 013 TUBE Small-diaphragm Tube Condenser Microphone Stereo Pair , is a tube microphone that's about $2,600 for both. In the end it all comes down to how everything sounds the form of your Technique of a particular piece you're playing. Still, if you used for sm57 microphones placed properly in that room along with a AKG d112 with the universal audio interface and a good Daw with plenty of plugins you would still achieve a great sound because in the end, The Listener is concentrating on the performance of the artist both visually and sonically to which you're playing is a credit to achieving that goal. When musicians start getting into recording techniques, they have a new appreciation for the overall depth of what's necessary to get as close to a perfect recording as possible. Usually I only watch your videos about pa Piano technique which I find very useful, but this video also shine a light on to the inner workings of the recording process. Thank you for all your work.

[@feliciab75]

This video is very comprehensive. Thanks for the information. I'm trying to figure out just a simple piano recording without spending too much money.

[@pablov1973]

Great video, I love when the piano sound is captures by the two pairs of DPA, sounds glorious.

[@johnmilotrain7217]

I think you settled on a really lovely sound, and that's not easy (as you found). There are a few things I've played with that I love to try when I get in front of a piano, sometimes they are just the ticket, sometimes they are no good. I like omni microphones under the piano, there is an ability to capture intimacy with the instrument, especially pedal and key mechanics from below the piano. While not a classic sound it is a sound I feel strongly about having grown up playing with toys under the piano while my mother and sister played. I also like both LDCs and SDCs right up on the tuning pins. I don't mind spacing them out and panning them a little L+R so that the space of the piano is in the playback with the same perspective of the pianist. Again, not a classic recording setup although it is used for Keith Jarrett frequently. It (like the omni's under the piano) present an intimacy that I don't normally hear in a recording. One thing to consider is that a lot of people record a piano from the perspective of an audience member, but it's possible to get a very different sound by recording the piano from the perspective of the performer. Very excited to see where this all goes for you!

[@quill444]

None of these setups sounded too badly, and each setup at least sounded like a very good recording of a very good piano played by an exceptional pianist; but only the DPA microphones sounded like I was truly "in the room" and next to you, a real, live pianist, Nahre, and not instead just listening to the recording of a piano. Most of all, even more important I think than the cost of the equipment, you are to be commended, Nahre, for your wonderful and time-consuming research. I hear so many recordings of piano plus vocals with constant clipping of one or both, or no discernible bass tone, or endless room echos and reverberations! You and your painstaking research will undoubtedly help a LOT of people, regardless of chosen instrument or type! - j q t -

[@DojoOfCool]

I prefered the four mic' setup with the two Rode mic's. It's not that the Rode mic's are the same caliber of the others, but it is a large diaphram mic and it seems to pickup more the low-mid's and low frequencies of the piano. I was a recording engineer back in the day and for recording solo piano the one thing I would of done different is use two mic's more like your two high mic except lower down around mid-level of the piano lid, and about a foot to eighteen inches further away from the piano. Good sound is all about finding the right place to put the mic. This is wear having someone to help you would be in valuable. Then you could put the mic on the stand, loosen the stand, and have one person moving the mic' in area you want and the other listening. When you find the best sounding spot tighten the mic stand to lock it into that position. Amazing how big a difference just moving a mic a tiny bit can make.

[@kirbyfernandez649]

As a beginner Pianist (Not sure if I can call myself a pianist a this level lol) this quaeantine, you've always been a great help to me. You and Tiffany Poon are like my teachers haha. Love from the Philippines! ♥️

[@tymursabri1911]

Never be ashamed of calling yourself something that you want to become, because no matter what level you are on, the only thing that matters is how much do you want it and how much passion do you have for this thing(in your case it’s piano). All the best with it and never doubt yourself!

[@froz3ncat]

As a pianist who also records, this was a fun insight into your experiences! I've gotten experiment with a lot of different set ups over the years, and this was certainly enjoyable to watch!

[@s0shite]

Agree with the final decision on mics! The DPAs together made the most natural sound but I loved that little extra sparkle from the Sayuz especially for the high notes...it adds a little brightness

[@constantin_von_knebel]

Thank you so much for this insightful video! Love the DPA combination, not only fancy but also functioning recording technique! So expensive… 😅 Also loved discovering some of your great music 😍 All the best ✨

[@fbcpraise]

The setup you chose was probably my favorite. That said, the Zoom was VERY good for the cost! I was impressed!

[@Bati_]

So far 2020 has been an avalanche of prolonged stressors, roller-coaster of emotions, a true game-changer (not in a positive way 😀), and hallmark of all sorts of uncertainty but your album is about the save the year from all of this Nahre! The long-awaited pain reliever and therapeutic release of the year! Its timing is just perfect for all of these reasons! I love the fact that it has no exact predetermined release date because I already know that this waiting period and predictable unpredictableness will bring wonderful elements of surprise along with the exquisite sound of a dreamer's optimism when it's most needed! :)) I'm literally counting down and I really CAN'T WAIT! Looking forward to experiencing it! :)

[@LivingGuy484]

11:55 That preview is just amazing

[@Zigarius1123]

I agree with your assessment of the combo. The Soyuz sound really good to my ears. I've spent the last year or so learning about sound engineering because my group is looking to do our own recording as well. There is... A LOT to it, to say the least. This was a really helpful video Nahre Thank you for taking the time, always love your content. Also, you probably have looked into this, but if not your friend Rick Beato has older videos on his channel covering these kinds of things. This is where I learned about frequency ranges of each instrument and where they fall. One thing I did find REALLY interesting is the distance you set the mic and height determines what part of the sound wave you catch. You can do a quick equation and figure this out to position the mic close to the exact frequency you desire. I wish you luck in your endeavors and eagerly await your music!

[@XavierSuarez]

I think the setup you ended up using gave the best sound. When I heard it, I thought right away that that one is the one that sounds the best to me. 😎🎹

[@TheAT5000]

There is a technique I recently experimented with that you might want to try. I took a matched pair of small diaphragm condenser microphones with a cardioid pickup pattern, (The $200 Lewitt 040 Match pair was my choice) and place them facing straight down a little ways behind the hammers at 1/3 and, 2/3 across the piano. Then I panned them hard left and right and flipped the polarity on one of them. The cardoid pattern will make sounds off axis with the mics darker. That coupled with the slight timing difference between the 2 areas mimics the way humans perceive directional sound. Small diaphragms are able to change directions quickly. There, are better than large diagrams for higher frequency sounds. so they are great for picking up the harmonic overtones on the bass strings, but lack body. So then I experimented with blending a microphone with a strong low and low mid range and left it panned in the center. And since I had a nice room, I also blended in an omnidirectional mic back in the room to pick up the room Reverb, and add a nice delay effect. The mics aren't as important as using your ears and experimenting. When everything is done by the book. Nothing new will ever be learned Have fun!

[@stevietrudell1625]

Love this video! I am happy that the mic combo I liked the most turned out to be the one you picked lol