Compression or Saturation - Which Comes First?

[@kixonic]

Hey man just wanted to come back and tell you how incredibly thankful I am for your insight. I can't imagine how long it might have taken me to come to this conclusion on my own, and that is scary thought because I really need to be competitive to be able to eat food for dinner and this gives my mix that edge I was looking for. You're a damn life saver.

[@bitflux2]

Anyone who takes the time to analyze comp and sat like this deserves immediate sub, so subbed

[@RecordingLounge]

I’m sure you’ll enjoy my other videos analyzing compression, saturation, and more!

[@jonafat99]

I know right. Same!

[@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy]

Great tip. I love slamming drums with a slow attack SSL bus compressor then taming those transients with saturation for fullness, and also the limiting effect it has.

[@davejohnsonmusic]

I could tell within a few seconds of listening to you talk, that you knew what you were talking about and that this was going to be a good video. Great demonstration.

[@RideTheFuture]

Very helpful - been mixing for 30 years + but never followed through on the sequencing of Comp and Sat as you did here....very nice work!! ThkU

[@jonafat99]

Love this man! Thanks explaining and showing us this in almost a scientific study!! It really really helps us understand what's going on, rather than just throwing things on a track!

[@Papa33J]

Great tutorial. I like how you show the waves and how they are affected by the changes. I'm new to all this and I'm not thrilled with the learning curve, lol, so I am relying on youtube and personal studying and these types of videos are really helping glue all the information together.

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

My snare chain is usually: saturation (on the gainstage plugin)>gate>transient designer>slow attack compressor>eq. But I also send the dry snare to a paralel bus. Which I then smash with a fast attack compressor and distortion. And both are going to the drum bus which has saturation, a clipper and a limiter on it that shave off a little bit of the snare transients.

[@djvoid1]

Well explained and without waffle. Great work!

[@Collingwoodcymbals]

Really appreciating the methodical approach in your videos, useful stuff, thanks!

[@RecordingLounge]

+Collingwood Cymbals glad you're enjoying it. Just added a new vid, like 10 minutes ago! Check it out!

[@Collingwoodcymbals]

The Recording Lounge Just watched, very informative! I find this kind of knowledge really boosts confidence in mixing, I can think of many times I've let a mix get away from me as I add stuff without really knowing why or what it's doing, sometimes the instinct is good and sometimes not! If people would apply the 'let's figure out what we're talking about before we talk about it" approach in other areas of life then we could maybe avoid a few issues... but that's another discussion for another time!

[@RecordingLounge]

+Collingwood Cymbals I know exactly what you mean. I take the same approach to audio that I take to Jazz - learn all of the rules first, and really understand it, and THEN break them all for fun and profit. Haha.

[@darrenfox5165]

another unique video. you put some "superstar" engineers to shame with your approach. More videos please :) cheers

[@MikeHeebz]

Another super helpful video. It would be awesome to see more in depth videos from you like this for compression & eq. Thanks for sharing what most won't & can't explain correctly with visual references.

[@RecordingLounge]

I have a handful of videos about compression and EQ on my channel! Keep digging and you’ll find some great stuff. Glad you’re enjoying the videos. Please like, share, and subscribe, and check out the podcast !

[@christopherkechichian]

Thank you for taking the time to make quality videos.

[@kevinstoneham1245]

Incredible dedication to do this. Thank you.

[@johnthecreative]

This is a great comparison. I need to start printing and comparing waveforms just like this. Also comparing the RMS levels is insightful. RMS especially since it's perceived loudness - really important! I've only ever used my ear for these compression decisions, but there are visual tools too.

[@tylus17]

“Peak level is kind of useless in terms of loudness” so true...that’s what makes dealing w/ audio very tricky at times.

[@errorplaneAudio]

'...It's a black beauty snare which is hard to beat in the studio' Nice one

[@RecordingLounge]

I can't resist a good pun

[@ktech4246]

You are a legend thanks for explaining so well.

[@sector1minos1]

long time without learnign something that light my mind, untl this video

[@d.m.ebeats9013]

Hey there's is this cool plugin called Psyscope pro,which shows you the waves form and you compress or add any processing it show shows as the waves form update for you to visualize more .

[@kaidoluht1957]

Api 2500 sound makes more sense now. Compression then output knob driving into opamps. Drums heaven.

[@Gaverny]

Some real gems in here. Thanks!

[@ulfb5467]

Thanks, I'll always be back to your video, it's really helpfull.

[@Worgram]

One critical thing you don´t mention is why you would compress the snare in the first place? So in my understanding what you basically do is add "punch" or transienst to the snare with the slow attack compressor and use the saturation for limiting the transient which you made louder with the slow attack comp. So in the end this method should theoretically sound better only on snareswhich don´t have a loud enough transient. If you deal with a dead as hell snare with only transient, this method would make it sound worse and therefore a fast attack + saturation should be the way to go there.

[@RecordingLounge]

^ correct

[@RecordingLounge]

It’s funny because if I go into immense detail and mention every exception, I get criticized for making videos that are too long and too in depth. But if I leave stuff out, stuff that people like yourself can gather on their own, then people bring that up too. Haha

[@RecordingLounge]

I do talk about this on other videos and on the podcast many times. You don’t have to compress at ALL. Or saturate at all. It’s all just whatever you need. 👍

[@Worgram]

@@RecordingLounge ​ The Recording Lounge Haha no problem buddy :D Love your content! Just wanted to clarify that because most youtube audio channels praise compression as something that makes everything sound better and alot of people like me half a year ago didn´t really, like REALLY know why to use this type of compression and will watch this video and go like "Yeh, I do that on every snare i recorded/have a sample from" or even worse like "I compress the heck out of my snare with a slow attack to make it even.... like i did once... xD Anyway, have a great day and stay healthy :D

[@sn47som]

Finally some useful content! Thank you

[@starsandguitars2050]

Nice job. Excellent analysis! Thank you.

[@Hammerhugon]

Great video on this topic. Thanks a lot!

[@soynachosonido]

This video is SOOO awesome!!!

[@sheeepman]

if only all vids like this had an approach like this(

[@ritchxmusic]

great explanation there, instant sub! Cheers

[@mits5k]

Great tip here. My snare immediately sounds better, and I've been wrestling with it for weeks!

[@jolyoncox]

Excellent content, thank you.

[@newguy6935]

Great vid. Appreciate it.

[@newguy6935]

Yet another great vid!

[@ElisabethKitzing]

Nice work!

[@mikerimi3092]

tnx 4 tips, well done... and U R doing good job...

[@zandewilson]

This is a fantastic video!!

[@maaaquemeseyo]

Really useful video! Love it!

[@jakedustino]

could you please give the final values of the slow attack compression and by the way of the saturation. Thanks for the info.

[@backbenchersduo]

This video is soo sooooo useful. Wish I discovered your channel earlier. Subbed!!

[@okangon7100]

This is gold, thank you

[@chandlerveasey4259]

Awesome video! What DAW is this ?

[@1962deiagiov]

Tank you, great video....i watched the intire publicity for you!

[@jeremythornton433]

Great video. Thank you. Which saturation plugin are you using?

[@oldskool5605]

Really interesting. Got me thinking about other plug in orders - EQ then compressor? Or a further comp after? What sort of EQ? etc....fun for days... Thanks Kendal

[@chaotic_incarnate2732]

I almost always EQ first so I'm not compressing unwanted frequencies. If not I will only compress with a 2:1 ratio max

[@RecordingLounge]

+Fav F hey, whatever works!

[@mikemorris1069]

Hey mate! I think the answer to this question has many variables, but often if you boost some EQ on a track you should add a compressor after that. The reason for this is that the boost will sound fine when the track is at lower gain levels, but when the track gets louder the boosted frequencies will often get out of hand. So a small bit of compression AFTER the EQ can tame these frequencies so they don't get crazy. You can find more info on this in this video which provides links to other videos with great audio editing content (like this video): kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5ragqiAlM13j68

[@thoughtlesshead]

Slow attack --> Saturation = Hannah Montana

[@onlyonSiMPLE]

i like the way you think :)

[@caspermaster-com]

Nice job!

[@izvarzone]

Presswerk have pre and post buttons. I just choose whichever sounds best in particular situation. I couldn't explain theoretically why I choose one or the other, more by feeling.

[@AudioReplica2023]

I heard once someone say; Analog tends to mask the sound (referring to harmonics) while digital is just honest

[@RecordingLounge]

I could see that. And most people “can’t handle the truth.” Haha.

[@gram440a]

I feel like people are always showing me how to use compression and saturation on a snare sound, where it's very easy to observe the transients because they're so clearly defined. I find it much harder to get my head around what I'm supposed to be listening for when it comes to something like a vocal track where it's much less clear, or a full mix with all different kinds of transients happening at once.

[@RecordingLounge]

You’re not wrong. It’s easier to teach / describe with a clear transient so, that’s probably why most people (myself included) default to that. I’ll try think of some ways to demonstrate that better.

[@marianlech3378]

Hi! Have you measured the RMS on a single snarehit or the whole file, including the bleed? Just wondering if the bleed going up could give a higher RMS reading... just curious. Many greetings!

[@RecordingLounge]

In theory it would.

[@kimseniorb]

Are you using virtual tape machine here? Thanks

[@RecordingLounge]

Can’t remember which tape sat I was using. Could have been VTM, but also could have been one of the UAD tapes, or the J37, or the Softube tape. 🤷‍♂️

[@Frankie_G_]

nice one, thanks G

[@HighHuaskaMuzik]

How can you make several audio outputs and get two of them come out with sound ?? I can only have one asset at a time. Any help?

[@erictsenmusic]

Thank you, sir.

[@Steelzuk]

Subsciribed, great vid! very clear and well explained thanks

[@adrianbaghdasarian4157]

mind blown

[@punk_rock]

One important notice about that comparison with/without saturation: you should use the same volume(gain) when comparing, because in 99% of cases, more loud sample will sound "better", just because of psychoacoustic feelings

[@suryamoorthy4924]

thank you

[@doziermuzic]

I will try it thx.

[@TheJonnnyHealy]

Do you usually take into account the saturation from analogue models of synth? Would you still saturate after going through an SSL strip compressor? Cheers

[@RecordingLounge]

+TheJonnyHealy hmmmmm.... I’d say always depends on the situation at hand. Depends how it sits in the mix I guess. I still DO saturate before compression sometimes, sometimes after. Really just depends on the given situation, and which sounds better. I have some plugins that have saturation built in, and I don’t know if it’s before or after, I just like what it does. Haha so go with your ear!

[@lazpete]

I probably missed , but what type of saturation did you use?

[@jolyoncox]

The best discussion of this topic I think I've ever seen. Thanks Kendal. It's a real art getting the peak-RMS relationship right on snare. Out of interest, which saturation plugin did you use? Thanks again.

[@johnthecreative]

That's my question too. He mentioned Slate but there are better ones IMO like ReelBus. Better yet use real analog tape. Been looking into high quality metal cassette tape because it's easier to maintain than reel-to-reel.

[@therhinoceros1]

Dope! Thanks

[@tautui3409]

What saturation plugin do you use?

[@zachary963]

Whatever you want. Waves’ Berserk and SoftTube’s Saturation Knob are two I like a lot. Waves NLS is great too. Saturation Know is free.

[@InTegralMuzic]

This test would be better if you would set output gains on the same level i mean before and after.

[@thenoddy7]

Yeah I wanna see the transients peaking at the same dB. My bet's on the saturated one sounding the loudest but obviously missing some of that punch.

[@InTegralMuzic]

@@thenoddy7 yep, i think that you can be right

[@RecordingLounge]

To me it doesn’t make sense to match peak levels, as we don’t hear things based on peak level, we hear them based on average level. If I did it based on peak level I reckon I would have more people complaining I didn’t level match them to RMS!

[@RecordingLounge]

But you are correct - if you level match to peak level, the saturated one will Sound loudest. The compressed on generally has a higher peak level (depending on how you set the compressor). It’s a common myth of compressors. Check out my video on Mixing for Loudness, I think you’d enjoy it

[@thenoddy7]

@@RecordingLounge yeah saturating peaks was the biggest/best mixing for loudness tip I ever came across!

[@DanielJohn1994]

Good video

[@thimothorin]

Now bring equalization into the chain :)

[@ImplosiveCatt]

I still don't understand what's the problem with fast attack and gain compensation?

[@RecordingLounge]

There’s no problem with it, it just doesn’t work the same way. Test it out for yourself. To get the same effect of saturation, you’d have to use a VERY fast compressor, something nearly immediate. The problem there is most “nearly immediate” compressors tend to clip HARD rather than SOFT. Saturation tends to clip very transparently and naturally and does so very consistently, without having the same side effects of compression. But in the end, people still use compressors for peak control all the time. Like I said, try it for yourself and compare the results!

[@ImplosiveCatt]

@@RecordingLounge I understand what you mean but it's not that you can't tame those peaks perfectly fine without saturation. Not everybody wants saturation on their drums all the time. But I agree that it smooths the transients quite nicely.

[@suptho808]

Thanks dude

[@DaPhunk73]

Very interesting video, thank you! Keep it up ;-)

[@Athiril]

Fast attack sounds best in this example to me

[@theunconciousmind7314]

Woooow thank ou

[@NiceTrade]

why would you ever want to add any effects or saturation before compressing drums, percussion, basslines ..it doesn't make any sense.. its like putting a Limiter in the 1st slot of your master bus.. & then an EQ ,,that's just crazy ! ;^)

[@RecordingLounge]

It’s actually QUITE different than the master bus. Please watch my video on “mixing for loudness” and it might explain this more in depth for you.

[@RecordingLounge]

It’s more like asking “why would you ever want to drive a Mic pre into saturation?” Or “why would you want to push into analog tape when tracking?” Well...if you record stuff clean and then put saturation in your first slot....it’s effectively like doing it that way. It’s not crazy at all. Records have been made that way for decades. ;)

[@NiceTrade]

yeah but the examples you are now talking about my friend have very little to do with the Dynamics of sound .. in your video you are mostly referring to dynamics, so it does not take a genius to figure out that compressing a sound before adding saturation will obviously squash the dynamics.. as i mentioned before, you pretty much get the same result when putting a Limiter on your master bus before compressing & adding EQ .. the Limiter would just squash the dynamics out of sounds that find space to peak over.. compressors should always be in slot 1 either it be the Track/Audio buses or master bus & everything else follows

[@RecordingLounge]

They absolutely have everything to do with the dynamics of Sound.... specifically microdynamics. Compressors and saturation devices absolutely affect dynamics in macro- and micro-dynamic ways. It all depends how they are set. There’s truly no right or wrong way to do it, I’m not sure why you feel the need to argue with that. And to say “compressors should always be slot 1” is a very narrow minded viewpoint. Compressors and saturation devices can be in whatever order you want them to be in. Seriously, watch the other video, “Mixing for Loudness.”

[@RecordingLounge]

Saturation devices by their nature limit dynamic range. But compressors, depending on how they are set, can limit dynamic range or actually expand it. If you set a very slow attack on a snare drum, and smack it really hard, you’ll actually increase the crest factor of the snare drum, and therefore INCREASE dynamics. It really is all dependent on the application. I talk about all of this on the other video. I think you will enjoy it.

[@drumken]

ok, sounds good, but also the hi-hat and bass drums is louder.

[@Windovaca]

goldmine

[@kn00tcn]

yes exactly, analog adds to the sound... all those arguments about analog being better 'quality' are worded wrong, aesthetically pleasing doesnt mean good quality intentional lofi genre music is intentionally distorted or crippled because it sounds cool or nostalgic, vinyl or tape are in a similar less obvious situation

[@RecordingLounge]

I agree 100%. It’s all just different flavors. Analog and Digital are both amazing, and both have their benefits and drawbacks.

[@richardaling5278]

Good way to turn up the hihat...:(

[@kixonic]

I can't believe I watched this whole video and scrubbed the comments section and I still don't know what God damn plugins you're using

[@RecordingLounge]

The specific plugins don’t really matter. I don’t even remember what I used. It’s all about how you use them. If I had to guess... probably UBK1 or Decapitator for saturation, possibly Novatron. No idea on compression. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@kixonic]

@@RecordingLounge I appreciate the reply my dude! Decapitator huh, I'll give it a try I mainly use distortion and harmonic exciters, and I didn't know if that was going to achieve the same results.

[@erictsenmusic]

These should be organized into paid content.