Red Dot and Magnifier. Love It or Hate It?

[@scarexcrowxfm5248]

Ahhh, classic Ben advice for everything in life... don't get emotionally attached... lol

[@wisemencompany]

@@scarexcrowxfm5248 it makes things simple doesn’t it?

[@4g63mark]

"Don't get emotionally attached" while he's emotionally attached to Aimpoint and Eotech. 🤣

[@wisemencompany]

@@4g63mark def not. Just the best thing going right now. Hopefully something better comes out.

[@taylormartin4346]

Ran LPVO for two years and recently went back to Eotech with 3x mag. I realized I prioritize the fast and easy 1x over everything else.

[@wisemencompany]

@@taylormartin4346 same.

[@thomasmarchese2808]

Most people will or should. I think the community has been kind of silly for a while. A little too much gwot influence without it being filtered through context. Seeing shotguns and revolvers and videos like this makes me feel that the community is finally starting to prioritize their “mission” that is specific to their life, location and realistic threats, ect as opposed to “what if xyzlmnop”

[@Hillykarma]

This is really THE question. For me, the 1x is king, so even the best of the best lpvo doesn't do that as well as a red dot.

[@taylormartin4346]

@@Hillykarma 100%

[@Jakezillagfw]

​@@Hillykarma Pigback a red dot.

[@terrarecon]

I used to be a huge red dot + magnifier guy. I now run LPVOs and MPVOs with 12 o'clock piggy back red dots instead. Red dots and holographic optics are the true 1x. But variable powered optics do for you what a magnifier cannot because its magnification is fixed. I am not suggesting anyone does anything differently from what is their preferred optics setup and is optimal for them. This is just what I run.

[@wisemencompany]

@@terrarecon good assessment. It’s all give and take. “Don’t get emotionally attached”

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

The thing is, you either run your LVPO on 1x or the highest magnification 😂 just like a red dot + magnifier

[@terrarecon]

​@@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw What TF you talking about?! 🤣Nobody who *"actually"* knows how to use an LPVO does that. Also, I stated I have a red dot on top for true 1x and CQB.

[@bwohali4471]

​@@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw dude smh

[@bwohali4471]

​@@wisemencompanyI have no idea what give and take means here on someone's personal rifle

[@A.Ann-one]

As someone who primarily does 'open gym' / 2 gun matches, a dot and magnifier just makes it so much simpler with a 16in rifle rather than having a lpvo and spr and dot gun, switching between them and not learning them fully

[@healthyhappyhero]

I love using the holosun acss red dot with a magnifier. The only major downside I noticed is in the rain the magnifier and redot being 2 separate pieces of glass makes it so you have to wipe off 2 pieces of glass if they get wet to get a clear sight picture.

[@50shadesofcerakote]

I like the primary arms magnifiers. I have the one with the range finder in it. Paired with the exps 3-2 on my 300blk, its been a really clean setup. And now I have 4xt pro on my 11.5. It just works.

[@ikemouser2580]

you can also use your magnifier in conjunction with NVG binos, popping it off and holding it up to your binos.

[@99cobra2881]

Thats a great idea Ive been thinking about getting a 3x pvs14 magnifier but its use is pretty limited, I would much rather hold an eotech 3x up for night time observations

[@Robert-cd5zr]

Honestly for the casual, this the appropriate solution. Maximize your 1x because most likely scenario is home defense, and a 3x QD magnifier gives you that PID and hit improvements when you need it.

[@trex5878]

Agree, very unlikely for civ's to be taking extended shots outside of a hunting context. Eotechs are great for professionals who go out on pre-planned missions but for home defense, the short battery life and having to turn the optic on are big cons. I like the Sig 4t pro for the multi reticle system of an Eotech in conjunction with the battery life and constant on of an aimpoint.

[@SDMoonGoon]

100% emotionally committed and faithful to eotech she has never done me dirty and she is my queen

[@Hobiee90m3]

I’m an sig 4xt boy, I love my eotechs but the battery life just isn’t my favorite, obviously isn’t that big of an issue just annoying sometimes.

[@ChanoLeyva-hq2ci]

Glad you moved the flashlight back like I told you too 👍🏼

[@jsmiley12]

Had the LPVO on my 11.5” and just couldn’t justify the weight and rail space. EoTech and QD magnifier is the way to go.

[@angelgutter8249]

the new t2/3x combomount from spuhr is worth taking a look at. It moved me over from my unity eotech/mag set up and is easily the best red dot mount I’ve ever used. Great content

[@wisemencompany]

@@angelgutter8249 I like the concept of that new spur mount. Haven’t tried one.

[@frankopanklaric]

I like it but man I miss my lpvo. Saving for an nx8.

[@minilogoguy18]

On the 2 dot eotech the 2nd dot is pretty much spot on at 25 yards when the center dot is zeroed at 50 which is super useful. The EXPS 2-2 and 3-2 are really the best models.

[@ericbergfield6451]

Thanks Ben, I've got a 3x on my EoTech, & it's super fun. My LPVO is rarely used, but it's also fun! ...& ofc red dots for days

[@tylerhall6455]

Completely agree. Dont get emotionally attached to any optic setup you buy. Hopefully you will eventually have all the optic combos available, then a person can really make a fair judgement on what is best for them personally. At the moment Im loving my eotech with a g33 magnifier and would take this if I could only have one gun/optic combo to take with me. Also, It was only a year or two ago I bought the g33 magnifier. I could have bought the g43 or the g45. All three were basically the same price. G33 is the same weight as the g43 and still allows me to run buis. G43 your going to have to eliminate the buis or put them in front of the optic itself... To me its between g45 and g33.

[@KERSmark_Solutions]

I really liked this video and how you were unbiased about the pros and cons. I actually just uploaded a video to my channel demonstrating the limitations of a red dot on low contrast/low exposure targets today. Good stuff!

[@wisemencompany]

Sweet. I will have to check it out.

[@KERSmark_Solutions]

@@wisemencompany thanks. It’s at the 14:00 mark of my latest upload

[@chardeemacdennis357]

speaking of KISS principle, apply that to budget - buy a camo sheet from Ranger Wrap instead of precuts, and you can do multiple guns for the price of one

[@Brix7-08]

Tried a vortex micro 3x behind my Aimpoint T1 for a while. Didn’t care for it. Preferred set up now is an RMR piggybacked on a 1-6. LPVO rarely goes below 4x, I just raise my head and use the piggyback for anything inside 100.

[@CatholicKit]

Is there a reason you don’t just use an acog then? Seems like itd be less weight and bulk if you’re just using that upper end

[@patriotfromthenoket6141]

I have the G45 behind a T2 and it’s fast and accurate to 300. Anything farther and I prefer a 1-6/8.

[@lunarconcepts9958]

5x with 4 Dot Eotech can get some work done

[@wisemencompany]

@@lunarconcepts9958 if it’s on a proper rifle.

[@boygonewhoopdataZZ]

​@@wisemencompanyahh yes a proper rifle, 7.5" .308 😂

[@Heywoodthepeckerwood]

My set up. It’s on a 14.7. Good hits on 8” plates out to 500 yards, no problem. Used the top 4 LPVOs and went back to this set up. Wanted an lpvo to work as I like long range shooting and love a good scope.

[@James-by4nk]

@@HeywoodthepeckerwoodHave the same setup and like it a lot still learning it tho

[@aopp021760]

What would be your go to recommendation as a marketplace for used EOTech optics? Great video post, thank you!

[@wisemencompany]

@@aopp021760 tacswap or Facebook groups.

[@aopp021760]

@@wisemencompany awesome, I’ll check tac swap. Thank you!!

[@six5actual]

I went to a TA11 Acog. Just never felt the duo was a good setup for the "shtf" rifle. (for me). Just made my setup as easy and simple as possible since im super low speed high drag....

[@wisemencompany]

@@six5actual I like your approach.

[@Andrew85or]

I went TA31 w/ RMR, TA11 is very as well!

[@Goldenwithaleash]

I have both and they’re both the right optic for different situations. But if I had to choose one it would be dot with qd magnifier.

[@aftermath2333]

Thank you for this video helpful I have T2 and XPS2 not sure what to use as my main red sot

[@wisemencompany]

@@aftermath2333 XPS2 gives you more holds but really can’t go wrong either way.

[@alexgavieres8293]

A red dot + magnifier is king amongst dudes with red dots and irons.... but would you risk a chance encounter with the typical hunting setup of a .243 paired with the Vortex 3-9x the rifle came with from the factory? MPVO + red dot on a 13.9" seems like a better do-it-all.

[@KidCorporate]

Ditched the EOTech + magnifier for an Elcan, then topped it up with an RMR for NV use. Haven't used a better setup for a fighting gun.

[@Saboteur_91]

That intro music had me bobbing my head like that cat gif 😆. Great video

[@A-Defender-]

Absolutely agree 💯

[@flavortown3781]

ADMR lpvo, most other situations the magnifier and dot are just easier to deal with, i like LPVOs especially on guns for banging out at distance especially when your in that 7-10x 6-800m range. But in the meeting engagement if you have a squad with magnifers and a squad without in that 100-300m range you will see a difference

[@Echo_6-9]

I bought the Overbore SALT to mount the magnifier further past the last pic slot near the charging handle, fixes the eye relief issue for me on my Vortex 6x Magnifier

[@wisemencompany]

@@Echo_6-9 Overbore does good work.

[@m4e1supremacy]

Unity has their own 4x all in one FTC unit releasing at some point (may have already, idk). That one seems nice in theory, and if glass and price are competitive, could be the new way to go if you care about flip to center.

[@ecobasetech4558]

When a person has multiple long guns that need to have optics, it gets a little difficult financially to justify spending the kind of money that Eotechs and Aimpoint require to obtain. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with going with Holosun or Primary Arms. They may be made in China but that doesn't mean they aren't good.

[@WisSota_Boy]

Besides the Eotechs I love using Sig’s 4 series of Romeo and Juliet.

[@FredomsFinestSeeds]

Any update on the shorter version of the hot pocket for the hand guard’s?

[@thestacche6898]

That rifle is such a vibe

[@briansilva6160]

Im looking to get a magnifier for my EOTech just waiting on a good sale to come along so I can snatch one up

[@wisemencompany]

@@briansilva6160 good sales do come along.

[@Jimmy.O.]

Labor day is coming up. 👌

[@kennykrabss]

I'd also suggest ebay. I got a G45 for $400. Deals come around if your willing to watch and wait.

[@BrandensOutdoorChannel]

When my stock is fully extended I have poor eye relief and can't see the magnifier. Any suggestions on a cantilever mount to bring it back a few inches?

[@cZor]

Perhaps I missed it, but what elevated platform are you running the pair on?

[@alexisdetocqueville9964]

For anything 10.3 - 16" unless you live in the desert and regularly shoot 400+ yards, RDS/mag is unbeatable imo. A QD magnifier is also mandatory imo. My magnifier lives in a pocket or pouch unless needed (can also be used as a handheld mono). Doesn't seem reasonable to have my cheek weld main optic be something like an ACOG or LPVO if 90% of my shooting is 200 and in.

[@jasonshepard-me8tj]

Good stuff! I've never used a magnifier, does zero shift when it is used?

[@wisemencompany]

@@jasonshepard-me8tj it shouldn’t but it does add parallax.

[@jeffreywilliams5979]

Which riser are you using with the Eotech setup in this video?

[@wisemencompany]

@@jeffreywilliams5979 PRI riser.

[@scott2228]

I’d love to take a red dot + magnifier class.

[@coronaman247]

Regular flavored Skittles or Tropical?

[@Slai47]

Since I'm not into night vision yet, I see a canted red dot as a much better option to me. No need to manipulate a part on your gun, but the gun itself. Just my feeling

[@TheHoodSite]

What riser are you using ?

[@Soildus]

Team red dot for me. lol I do like how a lpvo can help you make more precise shots at longer distances but most lpvo opitcs out there can't take the abuse that even a budget red dot can take. Plus my sig pro 4T red dot with a magnifier is almost enough to maximize the range out of 223/556 ammo, I can do about a 6" group at 400 yards. Just my 2 cents but I think if I'm going to jump to a lpvo then I need to jump up from a 223/556 to stronger caliber to make it worthwhile.

[@BasementOps]

What raiser mount is that noisefighters?

[@BrokenFlashHider]

What kind of riser is that?

[@wisemencompany]

@@BrokenFlashHider PRI riser.

[@noHandle1776]

Have you noticed any improvements regarding holographics due to the fact that the dot (or circle) does not magnify with the magnifier like red dots do? Or do you think it just doesn’t matter?

[@wisemencompany]

doesn't matter.

[@noHandle1776]

@@wisemencompany nice! I remember when I first got into rifle classes and got my first AR that was a topic. “Ohh holographic sights don’t get bigger magnified and a 2moa red dot is 6moa magnified”. But it never mattered because I never picked up a eotech. It’s on my list, maybe some day lol.

[@GuacIsExtra99]

I didn’t appreciate a red dot and magnifier until I started doing stuff under time

[@gordo3697]

Great video in regards to battery life everything uses cr123they cost a dollar its a nsn item in I Iraq I had a quad con full of them lights gps comm accessories ooh nvgs

[@w0263495]

What kind of suppressor mount is on the energetic armament can? I noticed keymo brakes on rifles but doesn't look like same footprint on the can itself?? Thanks for the response!!

[@w0263495]

ASR?

[@wisemencompany]

@@w0263495 ASR Mounts

[@johngordon2929]

Dude where can I get that background music. 😅 that setup looks clunky but I will watch the video

[@aftermath2333]

Is the 14.5 or 12.5 rifle?

[@wisemencompany]

@@aftermath2333 14.5

[@aftermath2333]

@@wisemencompany awesomeness

[@decline.enjoyer]

Your mic setup seems to have something that other gun tubers don't. The ability to capture the gun shots seems better than anyone else on this platform. What's the secret?

[@wisemencompany]

@@decline.enjoyer I have a decent mic on the camera. It is powered independently from the camera. The steel we use also rings nice.

[@climbhigh3094]

Some thoughts on my emotional status: Watch Delta34 video - Is a Red Dot all you need? on how visible someone who might want to kill you and is somewhat trying to be somewhat unseen (wearing camo gear) vs IPSC target painted white. It has made me rethink my T2 w 3x magnifier. I still use it but have also built a upper with a 1-6x which makes sense in my location. I train with both, still emotionally a wreck because I am attached to both,lol.

[@PaulyP_13]

I have dots and lpvos but I have always been concerned about magnifiers given all the complaints about added parallax/zeroing issues, poor glass quality, poor eye relief, etc. If I’m honest with myself, I can hit at 300-400 with a dot, and I really shouldn’t be shooting at anything with an AR past 100 anyway….

[@rjb073]

Is this a 9mm?

[@JConley-ie7dj]

What riser are you running on your rifle 8:52. It looks like a PRI. Just curious which model

[@wisemencompany]

Yes PRI but I also run Bobro risers as well.

[@John_439]

Red dots are great but the problem is magnifiers just suck.

[@SS-tr5ru]

Still prefer dot and magnifier to lpvo

[@wisemencompany]

@@SS-tr5ru me too but I still find instances when I need an LPVO.

[@SS-tr5ru]

@@wisemencompany yes on a 16” 308 I prefer a lpvo but for 556 I definitely love the mag/ dot more

[@Slay_No_More]

I find myself wanting to go this route due to me only ever using 1x and 6x on my lpvo.

[@A.Ann-one]

​@Slay_No_More it's the TA648 and a dot you you then 😂

[@Slay_No_More]

@@A.Ann-one I wouldn't be opposed lol

[@davepayne2024]

Excelente

[@ComeOnPelican91]

Are high mounts for dual optics bad for passive aiming, or can it be done? High mounted red dot and magnifier vs regular height lvpo with a top mounted dot

[@wisemencompany]

Not sure I understand your question.

[@ComeOnPelican91]

@@wisemencompany I was curious if a helmet mounted pvs14 bumps into anything on a setup like that.

[@johnl-cz2qg]

A LPVO with a 12 o'clock red dot can be used for passive aiming but it sucks in my opinion. Your NOD's will hit on the rear of the scope and I can't stand that. The best mount for passive aiming in my opinion is the GBRS HYDRA or LERNA mount with a T2 red dot. I prefer the T2 over the EOTECH because the bottom of the EOTECH blocks some of your view whereas the T2 just looks like a floating dot. Plus the T2 has way better battery life.

[@Grizzly_Bear2018]

Acog RMR combo 🤤

[@ikemouser2580]

What about the vortex 6x, did you find it had a lot of parallax vs the eotech 5x?

[@wisemencompany]

@@ikemouser2580 way more

[@HatsuneM1ku01]

Red dot with magnifier. Like an lpvo but with extra steps lol

[@mastodon24]

One more con: 4 panes of glass, instead of 2

[@wisemencompany]

@@mastodon24 great point.

[@mastodon24]

@@wisemencompany I’m using a Comp M4/magnifier combo too. About the same weight as your configuration. It’s solid, just a lot to keep clean - especially on the humid days

[@Glandash]

I believe in EOTech supremacy.

[@DREKOWICK69]

all I used in Vietnam

[@wisemencompany]

@@DREKOWICK69 it’s called “Nam”.

[@DREKOWICK69]

@@wisemencompany LOL

[@Warhammer77]

💯 bro

[@fmyles3]

Dot(s) and occasional magnifier. Not whacked out on idn'g bs. Not LE. If 🏠 D situation I can see just fine. And if shtf scenario, I can see just fine.

[@prairiepreparedness7370]

Shopping used stuff, ebay mostly. How the heck do you make sure your not buying some knock off anyhow?

[@scottclaiborne5123]

Ask the Seller to provide pics of the serial number. If they don’t agree, you’ll know. If they do, call the manufacturer and verify the serial number is legit.

[@JG-gw5cc]

Gear snobs, eotech or aimpoint, nothing wrong with Holosun red dots or magnifier!

[@wisemencompany]

@@JG-gw5cc well….i wish that were true. I would prefer to spend less money.

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

I prefer it over LVPO.

[@coleworld18]

What is the riser @0:25

[@handled99]

Its the "Bobro" riser

[@ogie4893]

I like cornbread and milk.

[@MarcDDD]

I never liked the magnifiers. The dots always look anything but like a dot to my eye. Only exceptions are with holografic sights. But the combo is so heavy, you might as well run a scope. Also the short eye relief sucks - always have to move the magnifier furthest back on the upper. And then I have to ditch the buis - which are important if you have a Red dot with poor battery life like the eotech.

[@effu9375]

Micro prism and magnifier 😉

[@weezem]

3-18x with a 45 dot.

[@catsfrommars]

ACOG RMR combo is objectively lighter than a Red Dot/Magnifier combo. The newish TA02 has the RMR set further forward so you can theoretically shoot through it passively with NODs on or with a gas mask. There are also mounts out there with the Aimpoint T1/T2 footprint if you want to take it a step forward.

[@mr.adventure6507]

How do you like your TA02? I’m really considering it compared to dot/mag, only thing I’d be concerned about is shooting in awkward positions.

[@kennykrabss]

Also interested in your response

[@catsfrommars]

So I bought my TA02 because of three things: 1. My familiarity with the ACOG 2. I had to be honest with myself and tell myself I really don’t know how often I would be able to go out and shoot. 3. I personally think it solved a lot of the shortcomings of a stand-alone ACOG and the placement of the forward RMR in theory worked better when I can finally budget in for some NODs. Before I continue I also need to make a disclaimer, I used the ACOG/RCO during my time in the Marines. I personally hated it, especially on the fixed-stocked M16A4s we ran. Wearing kit only compounded that issue. However there’s no denying it’s ruggedness and the 4x magnification definitely made the range a hell of a lot easier. The ability to also range a human sized target on top of the ballistic drops are a vast improvement over irons. I don’t care how many “in the old Corps” piss contests I hear, the ACOG was a game changer. It wasn’t until I deployed and managed to convince the Armory to issue me an M4 I’ve begun to appreciate the weapon system as a whole. The adjustable stock solved a lot of the ergonomic issues I was having. I trusted that optic to work and work it did. The ACOG is definitely not for everyone. There’s a bit of a learning curve in terms of making the most of the reticle, the eye relief is still ass, and you NEED to match the barrel length and bullet weight to get the ballistic drops to line up. And lastly the most egregious thing; it’s not a TRUE CQB optic (however the RMR solves that) I didn’t like the extra moving parts of running a red dot/mag combo, the extra lens makes shooting in the rain an adventure and some of the higher power magnifiers also have ass eye relief. Yes with a top mounted RMR you don’t get a proper cheek weld but it seems like everyone is running tall risers nowadays anyways. Why didn’t I grab an LPVO? Cause frankly the ones worth a damn are expensive and then you forget you need to dish out more money for a scope mount adding weight and cost. I also don’t like the idea of dropping my rifle on top of a Vortex Razor. And let’s not forget the additional cost of mounting a red dot for night time and CBRN work. In conclusion, the TA02 is not perfect. It’s not ideal for long distance work, but it definitely start to shine in “combat” ranges 500 and in. I looks silly but you can switch out the RMR with a T1/T2 and use the RMR on a pistol for example. And if you are forced to work with bullets other than 62gr you can make yourself a DOPE chart. I also forgot to drop this in. I grabbed the crosshair reticle instead of the iconic ACOG chevron. The illuminated chevron was an attempt to make a 4x into a CQB optic by using the Bindon Aiming Concept.

[@cardboard_shaft]

running while holding the magwell is powerbottom energy

[@Rockytofu]

Lit

[@betovargas2098]

ACOG/ Rmr gang

[@tacticalmattfoley]

K.I.S.S. is the ACOG all day long.........

[@FloorItDuh]

For the kinds of shooting most people do a RDS magnifier combo will cover probably 90% of your needs. LPVO's certainly have their place however the ideal is you have multiple rifles set up to do different things. Additionally one of the things I hear dedicated LPVO owners cite is target identification and my response to that is well that's what binoculars are for. Now certainly they do make shooting at range a much easier task but realistically for the average shooter with enough training you can shoot pretty decently with a RDS magnifier setup. It's definitely not better for that if you are assuming you're only using your magnification for target ID with a RDS. Also you potentially run into legal issues when you may have to justify a legal shoot.

[@mr.adventure6507]

I’ve always thought the same way when it comes to the target identification use of LVPOs, I could use binoculars, there’s many different sizes and weights. Super small lightweight 8x is really nice.

[@BasementOps]

Acog TA02 with front piggy back RMR is the only way!!!

[@mr.adventure6507]

How do you like your TA02? I’m really considering it compared to dot/mag, only thing I’d be concerned about is shooting in awkward positions.

[@BasementOps]

Delta 34 has a great video on it and all its perks ​@mr.adventure6507

[@Slipknotfanatic89]

Can you use the rmr with nods without smacking your tube on the Acog?

[@guitarthrasher81]

I feel like shooting with a high mounted RMR is not as intuitive or accurate as using an EoTech

[@meangreen320]

Hot take : NF 4-16 with an offset/piggyback T2 on a 14.5-16inch rifle

[@wisemencompany]

@@meangreen320 so much money and so much street cred!

[@freneticfanatic]

What is that fully set up? A 10+lb rifle? Here's another hot take for ya... What about an *off set* prism scope with a T2 as primary?!!!

[@timb8970]

. 😊

[@coach-]

that's a holo, not a dot...

[@dennisdavid9588]

Precision? LPVO. “Combat accuracy”? Red dot and magnifier. It’s situational too, if I was fighting in Afghanistan I’d rather have the LPVO, in Iraq I’d pick the mag/dot combo.

[@terrarecon]

LPVO with red dot at 12 o'clock piggyback is how I run it.

[@HarlenDugger0]

4x32 all you need fixed power . You don't aim at 50 yds or less you point and shoot .300 is to far to be sending rounds can be done but not standing . Be real guys iron sights on side . Lazer for night .