Red Dot Forum Camera Talk: Leica M System - 2023/ Where are we now?

In this week's Red Dot Forum Camera Talk, Leica experts Josh Lehrer and David Farkas are taking a fresh in-depth look at the Leica M System. With new camera and lens introductions along with updated firmware features over the last couple years, the M System is definitely worth revisiting. They'll cover the outstanding M11-P, M11 and M11 Monochrom cameras, the new close-focus 35 and 50mm Summilux lenses, 35mm Steel Rim re-issue, the exceptional range of existing M glass, recent firmware improvements, as well their top tips to get the most out of the M System.
Feel free to hit us up with questions beforehand by emailing [e-mail], or ask us live in the chat.
Missed out on our previous livestreams? No problem. Watch all of our previous RDFCT episodes here: • Red Dot Forum Camera Talk
Visit reddotforum.com for the latest Leica news, reviews, technical articles and more.
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Leica M System: lsm.to/M-System
Leica M Cameras: lsm.to/M-Cameras
New M Lenses: lsm.to/M-Lenses
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Red Dot Forum Articles:
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Leica M11 Review: The Ultimate Digital M: rdf.to/M11-Review
Leica M11 Monochrom Review: Pure B&W Performance: rdf.to/M11M-Re...
CCD Corrosion Upgrade Program: rdf.to/CCD-Upg...
M11/M11-P/M11M Firmware v2.0.2: rdf.to/M11-fir...
New Leica Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH III: rdf.to/28mm-Cr...
Leica M11-P Introduced: rdf.to/M11-P-A...
New Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH II: rdf.to/50mm-Lu...
Leica M11 Monochrom Introduced: rdf.to/M11M-In...
Leica Adds Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Version 1 ‘Steel Rim’ to Classic Lineup: rdf.to/35-Lux-...
Leica Relaunches Iconic M6 Analog Rangefinder with Modern Updates: rdf.to/M6-Intro
New Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH FLE II: rdf.to/35mm-Lu...
Leica M-A “Titan” Limited Edition Set with APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH: rdf.to/M-A-Tit...
Leica Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH Limited Edition Matte Black Paint Finish: rdf.to/28mm-Cr...
Leica Announces M11 with 60 Megapixel BSI Sensor: rdf.to/M11-Intro
Lightroom Presets for Leica Cameras: rdf.to/LR-Presets
Check out David's personal work at / davidfarkasphotography
Travel with David on Leica Store Miami Photo Workshops: lsm.to/4qzlz
Sign Up for Leica Store Miami Email Newsletter:
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[@thierry1491]

The channel is called the red dot but you guys always wear square ;-)

[@RedDotForum]

Plaid all the way!

[@michaelacedeno]

Would love to see the push for another firmware update to the CL . Such a great camera for the size 😭

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

I lost my digital CL to the boss at home. I bought another and it’s a great compact camera.

[@AlexKroke]

Capture one for iOS has been working with tether with M11 since it came out. It trasfare M11 raw files in 3-5 sec. Just set camera to tether connection in the new firmware, If you are on FW161 set PTP. I use it all the time to do remote shooting and in studio shoot

[@RedDotForum]

Great info. Thanks for confirming this.

[@tdfrie]

Please lower Josh’s amphetamine dose from 500mg down to 5mg. I had to play the video at 1/2 speed to understand what he was saying.

[@thierry1491]

The new Visioflex on M10R will be on full res capabilities of the EVF?

[@RedDotForum]

Unfortunately, no. When used on the M10-R, the Visoflex 2 will only display 2.4MP, not the full 3.68MP of the EVF panel. This is a limitation in the camera output.

[@richarddenise3886]

Do the Q3 accessories that I ordered actually exist. Merry Christmas! ...

[@rolandrickphotography]

Thanks for another great show, love them all. - At 49:41 , I wished, Leica would adapt the OVF/EVF principle like the Fuji X100s have it. That would avoid the need of sticking an ugly EVF on top of the beautiful and timeless stylish M body.

[@Leicam10]

Let’s hope the frame line preview lever becomes a hybrid evf/ovf changer.

[@RealCelticGamer]

There are too many M bodies tyst basically all do the same thing.

[@KandyRedCoi]

another great episodes gents! any chance of doing a “sports photography” episode?

[@klarkolofsson]

What do you DON'T pay for when buying Leica gear is customer service though. 6 months to fix a product issue is just unacceptable.

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

Leica service can be slow, likely due to the small size of the company. However, I’ve had excellent service from Leica, and found them to stand behind their products. When I visited Wetzlar, I noticed that they keep old equipment on hand in case they need to fix legacy equipment. In contrast, I sent my 20-35 mm f/2.8 D AF Nikkor lens to Nikon to get cleaned and lubricated (the lens was hard to manually focus due to the old grease). Nikon sent the lens back to me stating that they don’t have the parts to fix the lens. I later sent the lens to a camera repair shop in NJ, and they did the CLA for $250, and the lens works fine.

[@mauraece]

It’s been a while, good seeing you guys are at it again.

[@RedDotForum]

Lots of photo workshop travel this time of year for us.

[@damienphotographe]

Hello, at 1:09:30 you lecture us on always updating the firmware which I was not doing as long as I was happy. So I did and the SL2 is no more working as before ! You are certainly aware, also here kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZyzc5yseLprbcksi=dyzCPEAQr9Yx7b-W . Happy NY anyhow it's not your fault, just bad luck...

[@tomislavstanich9379]

Also: Can the owners of the LEICA S2, and S2P face the CCD sensor corrosion as on the sensor of the M9 in the near future? Are the CCD sensors on both cameras based on the same structure and architecture by both being based on the CCD technology?

[@shuguo5882]

What made it so long for you guys to bring another fantastic show to us! Please do more!

[@RedDotForum]

Lots of travel

[@sjmyamamoto]

I'm still patiently waiting for the firmware update to make the Profoto Connect Pro work in TTL/HSS on my M10M. The M10M is newer than the SL2-S and that camera has TTL/HSS for the Profoto Connect Pro. I hear that Profoto is working on a Firmware update for the Connect Pro for Leica, but I'm not sure how that will tie into TTL/HSS for the M10M. Time will tell.

[@TheVFXbyArt]

1:09:10 …you also buy into future discounted leicas…. I.e. the M9->M11 upgrade.

[@rolandrickphotography]

That’s interesting, I use Sony Tough cards in my SL2-S and M10 and never had issues. 1:33:13 What I do is formatting them first in body. My experience is, so many people out there don’t do that - camera brand independent. If people talking about card issues, my first question is always if they formatted the card in body. You’ll be surprised how many didn’t.

[@garymc8956]

Would Q3 Monochrome be next up? When, concerning usual timeframe? Thanks much for this episode.

[@dovetomarc]

A matter of opinion and personal preference whether or not the M11 is an upgrade or not. Always need to promote new products to keep sales growing.

[@on-streetphotography366]

Wow. So much Leica expert know how! This is great and very useful. Thank you very much.

[@camelotvanerven9667]

I believe there's too much tech in the M11, combined with flawed software. Bring back simple M with a great sensor ( max 40 Mp), no frills.

[@nymzoindian7250]

Just need these features before ossifying! - ibis - AI - hybrid vf & focusing - digital back / non-rf - global shutter - carbon fiber body - etc… 😅

[@andrewgardelle516]

Is there a way to disable to touch screen in live view on the m10 generation?

[@richarddenise3886]

You gentlemen out did yourselves! Much appreciated.!

[@Funktrainer]

The M8/M9's UI is way better than the later ones.

[@j5daniel182]

Thing is its a different era now. Being able to use an M camera for short videos - for IG Reels/tiktok to supplement the photos would be an excellent addition. EVen if its limited to 10-15 seconds. I'd rather have it than have to carry another camera .

[@Kevon420]

😂 buy a Sony if you want that. The α7C II is a very good camera. M is about the essentials of photography, the SL is the Leica hybrid mirrorless camera.

[@tomislavstanich9379]

Why the forwarding lever on the LEICA M10D can NOT manually advance the next exposure as on the: DMR/M8,9 and Epson RD1, which can save the battery energy, as well? That way all the users can feel the complete full feeling as of using the M film cameras?

[@RedDotForum]

We would love this. Used the manual advance of the R9/DMR back in the day. But, given the shutter advance system in the M10, there was no physical way to connect the lever with the advance mechanism.

[@tomislavstanich9379]

Thank you sooo much. This was bugging me for soo long time, and I' decided to ask as an issue, but today I' ve understand why?! Following all all of shows. Thank you. Secondly: So you think tjat the CCD sensor in my LEICA S2P can corrode amy minute, by having it for almost 10 years?

[@hkraytai]

Any more re-issues of classic lenses coming up?

[@MykeWinters]

I wonder if the M-12 will have a tilting screen

[@christofferbersau6929]

I wish they bring the big dial on the analog Ms

[@pisu06052000]

It‘s always enjoying to watch your show. 😍

[@dustinjenkins8215]

I just can't imagine why someone would sacrifice their fragile shutter blades to protect a sensor that has a dedicated cover glass that protects the sensor.

[@RedDotForum]

With the latest v2.0.2 update, the choice is now yours whether you want the shutter to stay open or close during lens changes.

[@jankis143]

Ty guys for a wonderful episode !

[@tennez]

Amazing show! Thank you all!

[@herwigv]

Brilliant - thank you guys

[@OpenDGuitar]

Greatly enjoy your videos…very informative. Been a Q2 shooter for 2 years.

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

I used to have a Q2 Monochrom and I loved it (I regret selling it). Great form factor, high image quality, and the built-in macro adapter made the Q2M my preferred carry (over the SL2 and digital CL, both are terrific cameras too). I can imagine that the color version would also be a pleasure to use.

[@OpenDGuitar]

When we got the Q2, I couldn’t give up color, as it was likely the only Leica I would ever use. But I do mostly B&W.

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

@@OpenDGuitar I’m sure you’re having fun with the Q2. My Q2M felt like an old school camera with modern amenities.

[@dans.8198]

@1:56:47 Fixing that M11 lower resolution performance issue should be a priority for the next firmware upgrade.

[@Kevon420]

Except it isn’t a glitch, it’s how it works. Shooting at M-DNG or S-DNG saves space on your SD card and gives you more buffer when shooting, no thing else.

[@dans.8198]

@@Kevon420 If it degrades image quality due to a suboptimal algorithm, then it should be fixed. Talk about striving for excellence…

[@RedDotForum]

While shooting in M-DNG doesn't provide any advantage over L-DNG regarding image quality and low light performance, it doesn't hurt it either. L-DNG and M-DNG perform the same. The only "degradation" is the loss of resolution, but that's now a choice for the photographer based on intended use.

[@dans.8198]

@@RedDotForum Let me rephrase that. If it is true that shooting L-DNG and then rescaling in software to 36 MP has better dynamic range / detail / noise than shooting M-DNG (36 MP), as you guys said, then Leica is using a suboptimal algorithm, and this issue should be fixed. After all, like you said, users are paying not only for the camera but for all the nice software and firmware upgrades.

[@Kevon420]

@@dans.8198 the dynamic range stays the same regardless of the resolution shot at. The Sony α7RV uses the same underlying sensor as the M11, and has a similar multiple resolution mode but with 26MP and 15MP instead of 36 and 18. With that camera, there is also no dynamic range benefit but I have heard the 15MP mode bypasses the bayer filter interpolation, though I've not seen extensive testing on it - the M11 does not have this feature but maybe the SL3 will (but who knows what sensor that will have.)

[@jpm5205]

NO EVF please.

[@JayWe94]

Am i just watching two guys shilling the m11 which is clearly not worth getting since m10-r is way cheaper and has all the functions u need?

[@johnkasianowicz6536]

I doubt that everyone has the same photographic needs.