REDiting - Why Editing RED footage is easier than you think

[@heavycredittelugu]

You using 64gb ram computer!! That's insane dude!

[@LawtonMeyer]

Ahh, this is great. I've been shooting mostly with the GH4 for the past two years and more recently the GH5, but I've been thinking about renting RED for some upcoming shoots. And yeah the panasonic cameras really drag sometimes in editing, usually just after I make tons of cuts or have heavy effects, so I was a little worried about shooting with red just for the work flow but feel much better now. Anyway, great video. Thank you kind sir. Edit: aaand I just realized the title says "rediting". this video is even better then I originally thought.

[@rockinbakken]

this video was a great help... have considered renting RED for a few projects but was unsure if my system would be able to work with it. I feel much more confident in moving ahead with it, thanks!

[@FritzelMedia]

So, I understand everything you're saying. But here's how I'm seeing it. In order to fit a 4K video into an SD card that quickly, it has to degrade the quality through compression. But here's what I don't understand. Let's say that as the video is being recorded, the camera has to compress it to 50% quality. Are you saying that when the computer plays it back, and "uncompresses it", it returns to 100% quality? If so, then why doesn't it play back in RAW quality? Do you see what I'm saying?

[@Moviesauce]

Yeah, I think I follow you and may not be able to fully answer this. But basically it doesn't return to 100% for most cameras - the codec or compression format is a way to save it down at lower quality. Like a jpeg can never return to RAW. You're giving up data for an easy to use smaller file. The compression isn't perfect. In order to meet the demands of the SD and other things, it has to lose information. Good codecs hide the missing info well, but lost info is always lost info. But you make a good point, which is the assumption that it shouldn't be that much harder on the computer - a lower quality file should be easier to work with because there's less data. I think the way a codec works is it has to do some software tricks to hide/replace the missing data and ultimately that is what the computer has trouble processing. However H.264, for example, is interpreting the sensor data in able to save space is what makes the computer work harder than just using the massive Red file. Trading usability for file size and more manageable technologis (like SD). You're starting to get into the nitty-gritty of how codecs work that gets beyond what I can explain.

[@FritzelMedia]

Moviesauce So essentially, compression is not only for degrading the quality, but also for using a calculation to make it easier to store in less space, and then the computer has to recalculate that to get all the information back out? Sorta like how the binary code 011111101 can be stored as 0(6-1)01 to save space, but the computer has to then interpret the (6-1) and change it back to 111111. That seems to make sense.

[@ja-son439]

because he read the same article that I did that made the same claim. He also thinks 10 bit 4:2:2, television broadcat standards, is highly compressed.

[@LunerversalFilmTV]

Thank you for this info. How to I sync Audio with Red footage with plural eyes 3 or 4 software. I can not find any videos on that. I'm sure you had to sync multiple audios with different red camera footages?

[@Moviesauce]

I still manually sync audio. Never gotten around to trying plural eyes.

[@wstd.gaming]

Do you have any Red footage that I may use to do some practice edits with and to test it on my PC?

[@MarkusLompa]

good title tho 😂👏 "REDiting" ... you got my sub! Nice video. keep shooting

[@oneofthedreamers]

If you're shooting on a camera that records compressed files, you should transcode your footage to a more edit friendly format before editing, such as Apple ProRes or Avid DNXhd. This will give you more freedom in controlling your image and will be better for when you finally compress your footage for output. It's not as good as having shot in those formats natively, but it's better than adding effects to and recompressing an H.264 file.

[@Moviesauce]

+oneofthedreamers At the end of the day you're still "recompressing." It's better for editing in terms of processing and ease of use to create a proxy. But it doesn't give you better image quality. Something natively shot in H.264, won't get magically better by converting to prores. Just easier from a workflow perspective. If you go from H.264 > Prores > H.264, it's the same image quality as H.264 > H.264.

[@OclooBattles]

H264 to proress or dnxhd doesn't do anything, unless you go from don't or Panasonic files to proress

[@pchuck1439]

I have no problem grading RED footage. But one time I graded 4k footage from a GH4, it bogged down my entire system. I won't grade 4k from prosumer cameras again unless it's done in 1080p.

[@360DigitalStudios]

Used to be impossible to edit years ago when the RED ONE came out. Had to basically use proxies or just take days to transcode to a codec you could work with. Adobe helped change that, FCPX followed soon after, then finally Avid followed 5 of so years after that. Used to need a RED Rocket, now most modern computers are fine. I was surprised when I recently upgraded to a EPIC-W that editing 8K was just the same as editing the 4K footage from the Scarlet MX. Your video has some good info. My only comment is that you could have fit all of the info into 5 minutes or less.

[@sondp]

I use MacBook 15” 2017 and i edit my Sony a6300 without a problem but first time i edit the red gemini footages it can’t even playback, skips a lot

[@Moviesauce]

The compression ratio (how it was recorded) of the footage matters as it relates to file size. Depending on the type of hard drive you're editing off of, there can be a speed bottleneck usually with external portable drives. Also, you can use the resolution scaling tools in most editors. So in Premiere, I usually edit at 1/4 resolution for a faster experience (that's with 8k 12:1) footage.

[@sondp]

Moviesauce 1/4 resolution was still chopping for me, and i edit of the Samsung ssd 1TB, i shot with the Gemini in FF 5120x2700

[@johnnyfive-bc]

I was curious if the residential video in this video is on KZbin? It looks really nice.

[@loganroad4254]

Exactly the video I needed to find! Thanks!

[@arsh_DSJ]

Amd Ryzen 5 1600 Gtx 1050ti-oc 8GB DDR4 2400 Os on 120Gb Ssd 1TB HDD storage . can i edit red footage ???

[@rajeshkumaritanwar7038]

Answer

[@kyledelso4751]

I have a creepy love for raw Red footage. By far the easiest, fastest, smoothest footage to work with on all our workstations.

[@germanikolaas]

What do you prefer for editing RAW ? Adobe or Resolve.

[@kyledelso4751]

I also happen to have a creepy hatred for Resolve's NLE capabilities. We operate in Premiere, color in Resolve. Resolve just doesn't feel intuitive, and it slows me down. I've tried multiple times, but it just feels clunky and backwards. For grading it's great.

[@Moviesauce]

+Kyle Delso Yeah, I've never really gotten into Resolve. I do everything in Premiere, even color.

[@kyledelso4751]

In terms of editing, you're not missing out ;) I'd suggest looking into Resolve for color if it interests you. But until then-- If it works, it works! Keep up the good work, man!

[@lilwolf6176]

I hate resolve.........it sucks

[@benoit1335]

VERY interesting video! i'm grateful you made it.

[@AndreiSam]

Could you give us specs of your desktop computer/workstation that you use for editing RED's raw footage. Since it might be outdated, could you also give us recommended specs for a windows based workstation that is capable of editing RED raw footage up to 8K? Thank you in advance!

[@ahmedalmehairi5788]

Very useful video and instructions you made me so confident to step up and buy a RED Camera now, thank you Movie Sause thumbs up!

[@Moviesauce]

Awesome! You'll love it!

[@celestestacy6725]

Great video, we are currently using the black magic pocket camera and the 2.5k cinema camera and researching the red cameras for our next workhorse setup.

[@howto3764]

Got i7-8700K, 64 GB Ram, 1070 Ti and 960 Pro SSD-s, and still can't work flawlessly with GH5 4K 8 Bit footage in Premiere

[@BubVisuals]

This is odd. I use a 2017 iMac with 32GB RAM and a radeon pro 570, and have had no problems with this whatsoever. I prefer to shoot prores, because the quality + editing experience is just so good, but I've had no problems editing h.264 8 bit on my, much less powerful, system

[@Matt-yw1ws]

You might have your playback quality at full? I'd try turning it down to 1/4 and see if that helps. A lot of people edit in 1/4 with 4k footage. By doing so this it reduces the stress of rendering the footage in real time.

[@brunofavery1050]

Good topic. Did not know about this. Thanks man

[@tomistenqvist1311]

Great information! Even though I don't own a RED camera I always appreciate learning about film making. I shoot with a Sony a6500 and create proxies to work in Premiere fluidly and that seems to be a good tip for anyone that is struggling with those more compressed 4k files. Thanks for the video!

[@ocfan862]

Which RED Was This Segment Filmed on?

[@Moviesauce]

This would have been the 6K Dragon in an early Weapon MG body.

[@jayargeronimo]

But if you can't afford a RED camera what prosumer camera comes the closest?

[@Moviesauce]

+Pinpoint Productions I've been shooting on Red for 5 years so I can't speak from my own experience on other cameras. But the Sony A7S2 seems to be a popular choice.

[@originaljoeblow]

@Moviesauce question: editing 8k R3d footage in a Red 4k project. If I turn the resolution playback it seems to play fine with simple cuts. But I'm wondering if I should convert it down to 4k or just edit as is. If I should convert or downres. Which program or what's the easiest way you would go about that?

[@Moviesauce]

Joe Blow Generally I'd keep it as is to maintain the raw data, unless you want to relink at the end. If its a big project with a lot of effects and edits, you can make proxies, but just depends on the performance you're getting. I'd stick with raw until it becomes a performance issue, but its never been a problem for me.

[@Moviesauce]

But if you need to make low res proxies, just use Adobe Media Encoder.

[@originaljoeblow]

@Moviesauce thanks for responding so quickly. So I loaded the 8k on a red 4k 23.97 sequence profile in Adobe. And I have an apple with almost the same specs as your computers in the description, just different processor i7 and diff graphs card but supports 5k. Natively the Metadata footage seems to play decently when I bring it in to the time line. But that's without me cutting or rubber banding, key framing or coloring. Do you still think it'll play well at 1/4,1/8 speed for the time being while I chop?

[@Moviesauce]

Short answer is yes. I think you'll be fine. If you color using the raw source settings, the color changes wont affect performance at all - that's the benefit of raw. It's not new information on top of the footage. But there's only one way to find out how your system will work under load, try it. Do a test project if you need to. You have everything in front of you to find your answer.

[@TechTVusa]

It is good that you showed the playback of the different video codecs. I let people know the Red R3D files are harder to playback then Apple Pro Res or even MJPEG but most i7 computers with even a mediocre $200.00 graphic card and Premiere Pro CC can do it. Some people will have to drop down to 1/2 or 1/4 resolution for smooth playback.

[@Moviesauce]

Even with prores it's relative to the type of prores compression. Usually when people make prores proxies, they're lower quality than the RED source file because most people aren't outputting to the native 4k, 5k, 6k, or 8k resolution that they're shooting with the RED. But a 6K ProRes 4444 is more taxing than a 6K R3D because it's a much much larger file. But yeah, even with my setup, unless it's a really small project, I edit at 1/2 or 1/4 resolution because it's a better experience (and my monitor can't resolve 6K anyway).

[@TechTVusa]

I think most people know when you convert form camera raw to an intermediate codec you loose some quality. It is like skipping a generation in the old 3/4" days or Betacam days. When you opt to convert from a native RAW format to Pro Res the Pro Res files will be bigger. I know all this as do most people. My point was that it was great to let people see the real-time playback performance. That is all I was addressing with my comment. Moviesause had already explained the compression and files size in his video although he did not mention Apple Pro Res most people are hip to intermediate codecs.

[@polypeptide]

Thanks for the information, very helpful!

[@buddyvisuals5389]

how do i build a system like that?

[@Moviesauce]

Buy the parts on Newegg and put it together. :)

[@albatrizzle]

hey man, thanks for the advice. I do realty videos in Australia but I'm wondering whats the going rate for walkthroughs in the US?

[@Moviesauce]

I don't really know. This was my first and only one so far and it was for a friend.

[@bennelson14]

I'm not 100% sold on this. I can edit my A7s II footage at full resolution with coloring and effects, but when I put my 6k .r3d files into premiere I can barely get by at 1/4 resolution. What REDCODE do you usually shoot at? I'm usually around 6:1.

[@Moviesauce]

I usually shoot at 10:1, occassionally 8:1, but less than I used to. That's probably why. I probably should have touched on this more. A 6:1 Redcode file is almost double the size of a 10:1 file - with a virtually indistinguishable difference in quality. When I shoot HFR 6K on the Dragon it has to go to 16:1, and you'd be hard pressed to notice the quality difference even at 16:1. For reference: kippertie.com/red/dragon/dragonrecordingtime.jpg The slow down is most likely a hard drive related issue - going back to trying to move that much data around. Not the resolution, which is why dropping that in Premiere isn't giving you much difference. Compare the size of a 1-minute A7s file to a 1-minute 6:1 Red file. I'd wager this is more the issue. What kind of hard drive setup do you have?

[@bennelson14]

I'm editing on solid states, so that's not the issue. I've got a 980 Ti, 4 GHz Intel Core i7 and 32 gbs of RAM.

[@johnnyfive-bc]

is there any R3D files that you can let us play around with?

[@Moviesauce]

+Brendan Collins There are some on the RED website. www.red.com/sample-r3d-files

[@andybrunker9672]

Awesome description, thanks! Is there a final version of that video somewhere? I like the style and I'm curious how it turned out.

[@Moviesauce]

Yep! kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3-8ao2drZaaprM

[@red-linemotionpictures3532]

Thanks abunch bro,mine is all in one pc core i7,1T, 64bit, 8G, w10. can it work?

[@Moviesauce]

Depends on a lot of things (age of computer - there are 10 year old computers with the specs you listed; also what red cam and resolution - 4k is easier than 5k, 6k, or 8k), but it should. Download some Red footage from their website and see how it performs.

[@midhunkumar7908]

How much do you charge for editing a feature film??

[@Moviesauce]

Never been paid to do that. The four features I've cut have been my own. Probably best to do an hourly rate.

[@midhunkumar7908]

@@Moviesauce oh great! Can i know the hourly rate?

[@Moviesauce]

You have to decide what you think your time and skill level are worth. Its something that should increase with time as you get better (and faster). No standard number.

[@Moviesauce]

I'm not interested. Sorry.

[@DannyPops]

The GH4 bogs down even my fast computer. Good points. Also your voice when you talk low sounds like you smoked a pack of cigarettes. :)

[@Moviesauce]

+Danny Pops I'm getting over a little bit of a cold, so that's probably why.

[@GrainOfRice]

Thank you for this video, super informative, like we just got the newest iMac 2017 literally highest options and still can't edit the 4k h264 footage from a Lumix G7. Now I understand resolution isn't everything. Is it worth getting into learning about Red Footage and that higher end cameras that we can't technically afford right now (without breaking the bank)? I haven't even learned anything beyond DSLRs since we essentially can't afford them haha but again thank you for this, this was so informative, made me understand that the $3k purchase wasn't a terrible decision but rather a great one.

[@westartedhouse]

nice vid, very informative, what specs would you recommend for home made custom computer to efficiently use red software and camer footage

[@Moviesauce]

+trae triplett I'm on an octacore i7 with 64gb ram and a GeForce 980ti. But it's over a year old and the new quad core i7s should be fine. Can also do well enough with 32gb of ram too.

[@westartedhouse]

Than you, I appreciate the info, Pulling this all together on a Budget, Need to maximize efficiency of my $$, you very cool for sharing!! thx #100 Moviesauce

[@jamiepaolinetti5087]

Great info! I'm a director in LA and we just shot a feature with the Red Weapon in 8k. We're setting up workflow and are looking for opinions or videos on the best sequence settings to maximize our eventual output without any problems. Using a very fast machine and also using the proxy workflow in Premiere CC 2018. New Premiere has a bunch of Red R3D presets and it's very confusing. Any help or experienced opinions would be greatly appreciated. Seems very few people have done this with a new Red in 8k. Thank you. Do you offer an email contact anywhere for business inquiries?

[@Moviesauce]

Well, first of all, you should test your workflow before you commit to shooting a feature in 8k. But I would suggest making your sequence whatever your intended output is, so generally 4K these days. So 3840x2160 if you're shooting 16x9. Then you can scale your 8k footage to fit the 4K timeline or use the extra space for reframing/cropping if needed.

[@jamiepaolinetti5087]

Thank you! Yeah, we did a bunch of tests before we shot the film in 8k Raw, but that was back in June of 2017 and now Premiere CC 2018 offers a bunch of new Red presets in sequence settings, so we're just asking experienced people what they prefer to generate the smoothest fastest workflow. Thank you for the advice on choosing one of the 4k options... seems to be a very smart choice since that's what we will be mastering in, (there are still a number of different 4k presets available now) Thanks again!

[@Moviesauce]

Yeah, so I would use one of the RED 4K HD presets. But you can also type in everything manually. As long as it's the right resolution and frame rate, you should be set. I haven't used 8k yet, but that's what I do for 6k. You can also download and install this custom set of RED presets from Phil Holland: phfx.com/tools/REDsequencePresets/

[@jamiepaolinetti5087]

Awesome! Thanks again. I'm sure as more and more people start using this combination of Red 8k Raw and 2018cc we'll get some more knowledge. Also, thanks for the Phil Holland link.

[@wcsdiaries]

@@Moviesauce you think my lenovo 7520 is enough to edit red komodo 6k?

[@830Video]

Whenever you're free I would love to have you on my podcast my dude.

[@Moviesauce]

Sure, any time!

[@stanleymakafui]

Did you guys have the podcast?

[@830Video]

@@stanleymakafui yep its on my channel

[@Zehahahaa]

Thanks for all the info man I really appreciate the time and effort , btw just out of curiosity what computer do you have ?

[@WesleyClouden]

8year red owner yes its not complex, I just has to be converted so can be edited, final cut X still do better job kicking out the Compress to edit just been like that for years

[@Moviesauce]

I've been shooting/editing Red footage for 5 years - since Scarlet-MX first came out. Have never used proxies - never converted. I stay with Redcode in Adobe Premiere the whole way through. Currently cutting my second feature in raw.

[@mkhvisualaspect]

Cheers man that was well explained

[@qualitaFilms]

What motherboard do you have?

[@Moviesauce]

Gigabyte GA-X99P-SLI. My specs are starting to age a bit now though. The newer generation of Intel Enthusiast processors and X299 boards are out now.

[@charlesBenincasa]

I dont get it? Linus Tech tapes claims editing Red Footage is insane

[@StillSoundAmazing]

Dope video man!!!

[@davidhrzenjak]

does your wife edit in adobe or final cut

[@Studio23creation]

Oh man i can confirm. The worst codec possible for editing is the phantom4pro codec. I almost cannot work with phantom4pro footage, and have to create proxies for it, while on the same sequence, i can playback 6k red footage WITH color grading without any sweat!!!

[@SalsaColombiaUS]

Now I just need a red camera)))

[@daveedsdreads1265]

You should put up a dropbox or Google drive link with a few clips for your audience to download and mess around with!!

[@Moviesauce]

Not a bad idea. I'll look into it.

[@piranhabiz]

The speed of the drive is more relevant than whether it is USB bus powered, I edit RED 5K off of a 7200rpm drive no worries.

[@piranhabiz]

great video though

[@Moviesauce]

+piranhabiz Yes, but typically those things correspond. I've never seen a USB bus powered 7200 rpm drive. They're typically 5400 rpm, which is the problem.

[@piranhabiz]

Moviesauce true true, great video on compression though. Most people don't realise the difference.

[@supDruMz]

proxies are key

[@MikeMatsuiJr]

Thats an expensive pc. Just curious, do you make all of your funds film making?

[@Moviesauce]

Yes, I have a production company that does commercials and music videos (see my "client work" playlist). That's how I make a living. The movies we make we do ourselves and don't make much money from. It was about a $3,000 custom built PC two years ago. That's actually pretty reasonable for a professional editing system. At higher levels it's not uncommon to see 10-15 grand setups. The new iMac Pro for example starts at $5,000, can get up to around $13,000 all the way decked out.

[@robinjohnson4613]

Haha nice Zeisou hat!

[@JonathanNinnin]

There is a huge missconception here. The only difference is a LogGop codec that most little cameras uses is a very camera friendly codec but not a very editing friendly one. LogGop is a codec that has to fake frames wereas ALL I codecs is pure real frames and is indeed faster to edit. It's called temporal compression. But huge files also uses different power of the computer, namely the graphic cards. LogGop are more intensive on the processor and the ALL I codec more on the graphic cards.

[@Moviesauce]

+Jonathan Ninnin You're explaining the same thing basically with different more detailed terms.Theres no misconception. And it's Long GOP not LogGop. Long GOP codecs like H.264 are more compressed and generally harder to edit...which is what I said without name dropping Long GOP and explaining how the codecs work. And I'll wager hard drive speed/setup is more important than the graphics card when dealing with large intra-frame files.

[@JonathanNinnin]

Compression is: Temporal compression, Spacial compression, color compression etc. The only type of compression that slows down the editing workflow is the temporal compression aka Long GOP. The other forms of compression doesn't slow down the editing process at all. I now assume that most people are using SSD hard drive. So the limitation usually comes from the GC and not the writing speed ;)

[@Moviesauce]

+Jonathan Ninnin You mean SSD. And they're still too expensive for a lot of big projects. For example I shot 480gb of Red footage (one card) yesterday. My laptop's internal SSD is 512GB. Most external hard drives are still regular HDD. I've shot features with almost 10tb of footage. A 10tb SSD raid would be cost prohibitive. Shouldn't assume most people are using SSD - for system drives sure, but not bulk storage.

[@JonathanNinnin]

That is why you should edit with proxy in the first place ;)

[@searcyproductions]

2am for me

[@simongentry]

not morning - but it must be somewhere! cheers!

[@stargaitanis]

Did you accidentaly frame the shot badly or is it some kind of mr robot inspiration?;p

[@BuddyLoveDance]

Dinky xenmuze x5 😂😂😂 I'll take it off your hands if your unimpressed with it. Great video though, good explanation of everything.

[@dabj9546]

Stinky little X5 camera? It`s cinema level!!! Well almost at least...

[@Moviesauce]

+Da BJ not even close

[@gingerduffproductions3061]

Tell her to use proxies to edit 4k on her macbook, problem solved

[@SAndSPictures]

I'm going to guess my comment is what prompted this video lol

[@Moviesauce]

+S&S Pictures haha. You're not the only one. I get asked a lot.

[@davidhrzenjak]

wo wo wo wo wo... how da fuq is that possible, its easier to edit RED.. Bruh im concerned now

[@BenFilmProduction]

bam first!

[@CharlesBakke]

So many jankermites in the comment section