Rejected By Its Own Designer: Douglas BTD Destroyer

[@TheNinjaGumball]

I love that square cigar-like look of the BTD. It's so unique and intimidating, I love it

[@ThommyofThenn]

It's neat compared to how rounded its peers were. And those neat wings!

[@donaldvincent]

I love it. Great looking plane!

[@LastGoatKnight]

It's irrelevant to the video but I find it funny how infamous the Ju 87 Stuka is, yet I found 2 videos about its history here on KZbin. So if I can ask for a video, I'd like to ask for a Stuka video, hopefully variants included. You're a source that I trust and who makes very entertaining videos and you already made a video about its planned replacement so it would be logical to make one about the original dive bomber as well, in my opinion.

[@Visiorary]

I'll second that!

[@chrisrawlins3954]

@@Visiorary Third

[@PINKPANZER262]

Fourth, I’d love to see some thing on the G variant

[@oxcart4172]

Chris, on his Channel "Military Aviation History," has a series on the Ju-87 and has written a book about it. Hope this helps.

[@bruceclark5627]

Ju+88 and Glolster Gladiator, please.

[@ravenclaw8975]

I think the Destroyer was a cool looking aircraft. It's a shame it didn't work out. Thanks also for clearing up the two Helldiver confusion (mine alone).

[@MattnessLP]

Imagine if the game Helldivers was about rickety carrier-based bombers

[@lighthousegravyP51]

Or in a Helldiver twist, they are dropped from a large airship by a rack system.

[@randallreed9048]

@@lighthousegravyP51 Oh, that is too cute and too clever. Over everyone's head is my guess.

[@skykeeper2216]

@@lighthousegravyP51 *crimson skies intensifies*

[@athiftsabit1208]

Always love the way BTD looks, it just appears so modern at that time period

[@ThommyofThenn]

It has a chunky yet kinda slick look. It feels like an early 50s American "boat" car vibe.

[@buttcracker]

Square

[@Sokar1283]

When I was a teenager, I was able to do some restoration work on only surviving example of the BTD-1 Destroyer. Very interesting plane.

[@foxhoundms9051]

Such a cool looking aircraft. Especially with all the dive breaks down.

[@vokqe]

I like your slow pace of talking, it’s a breath of fresh air nowadays because everyone talks so fast

[@Argentvs]

LMAO. And here I am speeding most videos because I can't tolerate how slow they talk, it's so annoying and frustrating.

[@franksizzllemann5628]

Yes, but his 'meter' is annoying. "duh, d, duh, d, duh-duh, _duh!"_ I'm being a dope, it's really good content delivered well.

[@thelandofnod123]

The size of the Skyraider never ceases to amaze me.

[@StromBugSlayer]

Interesting that the Navy insisted on tricycle landing gear, only to apparently forget all about it for later designs.

[@randallreed9048]

I wonder what the analysis was like for damage-free carrier landings with tricycle vs. tail-dragger designs. Seems like there has to be a big operational difference.

[@Dysfunctional_Reprint]

Love your videos. They remind me of Wings, Discovery and TLC specials of yesteryear. Keep up the good work comrade!

[@kidmohair8151]

about mid-way through, you could tell this was going to end up at the Skyraider

[@rcaddict69]

You can see the shape of the tail and see what it morphed into, I was thinking the same thing when I saw the BTD

[@TheOrdomalleus666]

Now I have to buy the book on Heinemann

[@SportyMabamba]

You’ll probably get a ton of unrelated results because “Heinemann” is also an academic publisher 😅

[@Moshavnik7272]

From a modeler perspective, this is my most wanted plane on my list! I hope a 1/48 scale will be produced one day.

[@benjaminepstein5856]

This is a really cool looking plane

[@300guy]

It really does look like a single engine A26 with a cranked wing. Especially behind the cockpit with the observer station and dorsal/ventral turrets.

[@kiwidiesel]

A26 for the win tho.❤

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

That's a good book. I borrowed it from my local library, but they sold off a lot of books in the late 1990s...

[@redr1150r]

I actually saw one years ago. It was in 71, or 72. It had been taken out of a large storage shed that was kept with other aircraft on the far side of NAS Norfolk, Virginia on the side of the base near the Military Passenger and Cargo Terminal (MAC) . You could see them from Taussig Blvd., which is now a wide 4 lane highway, going under the extended runway through a tunnel. I was able to see several rare vintage aircraft in the early 70's . As the aircraft were removed the sheds were torn down and scrapped.

[@gotchagoing4905]

I LOVE the end result, which covered my ass many times in Vietnam. We called them spads or more commonly, the 'flying dump truck'.

[@paulsteaven]

It's amazing to know that both the USN and IJN came up with the same idea of replacing their mid-war bombers (Avenger/Helldiver, Tenzan/Suisei) with a multirole inverted gull winged bomber that has almost the same capabilities!

[@danielschannel444]

I think it's neat that they were starting to have nose wheels. Thank you for sharing, love your videos.

[@soonerlon]

excellent and informative video. I'm into college football and their refs really suck also (especially in the SEC).

[@charlesrousseau6837]

Ed Heinemann, together with Clarence Johnson certainly among the greatest aircraft designers of all time. And a modest one at that.

[@josephnason8770]

Yes. I made the same comment on another video.

[@DrivermanO]

From a British viewpoint, Roy Chadwick (Lancaster and Vulcan) must be up there. Also Teddy Petter (Canberra and Lightning). And of course RJ Mitchell and Sidney Camm.

[@alfonsfalkhayn8950]

And the german ones....Messerschmitt, Kurt Tank, Heinkel, Richard Vogt, just to name a few.

[@the_lost_navigator]

If you think the NFL Refs are any different than Politicians - you've already lost the game when you're playing by THEIR rules ;) Enjoying your videos - keep the Ball & Needle in the groove. Kudos!

[@SportyMabamba]

But cheating is not the objective of the NFL, winning honestly is

[@markam306]

You mentioned the redesign involved mounting the outer wings at less of an angle with respect to the horizontal plane. I don’t know for sure, but the reason could be to provide more lift for the wing size. Maximum lift for a given wing design & size will be when the wing is in the perfectly horizontal position relative to the horizon (or perpendicular to the force of gravity).

[@brianking5092]

I was thinking it might be to allow a quicker roll rate and reduced stability.

[@markam306]

@ by quicker roll rate are you specifically thinking of the initiation of the roll maneuver, say the first 30 or 40 degrees of roll ? I can see where less dihedral would give less inherent lift difference between the lowering wing and rising wing resulting in the aircraft ‘fighting’ the pilot less by resisting the roll. I could see initiation of roll as important in a dive bomber.

[@brianking5092]

@@markam306 After thinking about it I may have spoken too soon on the roll rate. Initiation of a roll rate is a matter of control authority and the mass you are trying to make move (roll in this case) I don't think dihedral would have much affect on this. Thinking back 40 years ago, about experiencing sustained roll rates, aircraft with less stability were quicker at initial and sustained rates, (A4 Skyhawk low wing, short wingspan, fuselage loaded, for a sustained rate of 720 degrees per second) and slower initial and sustained rates (OV10 Bronco high wing, more wing loaded, longer wing span, rate of about180 degrees per second). The problem is that one is designed for the quick roll rate and the other isn't so there are too many variables for me to justify my claim. Stability is another matter. I agree that increased dihedral makes more stability in roll. When you let go of the stick the plane will want to roll upright again. Less dihedral (More neutral) allows the pilot to place his aircraft in a position and not have to make it stay there. The A4 would stay where you put it and the OV 10 would want to roll back level. In a bombing run the A4 would be easier to adjust the pipper (aiming point) because of the quick responding roll rate.

[@dimitrijensk2845]

20:15 What absolute legends

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Ah ! a single engine plane with turrets everywhere, smart move but needed turrets on the wings and tail. Go Bengals ! :D

[@stephengardiner9867]

The remote turrets are very reminiscent of those on the A-26.

[@colinmartin2921]

Nice looking aircraft.

[@ihak707]

I'd really love to see a video about the A2D

[@TheRevoltingMan]

Nice looking plane.

[@streamofconsciousness5826]

I see a P-51 in that back mid still. 9:10 Leaps and bounds, but the Navys never had a lot of Models, Allied or Axis. The Japanese were still using Vals and Kates and America had one leap to F5F Corsair SBD's and TBF's. The Bearcat and Skyraider missed the war and were obsoleted by Jets. A lot of work went into both and the F7F Tigercat.

[@TallDude73]

Requirements "From Santa" 4:56 LOL

[@garygenerous8982]

Douglas always made super pretty aircraft at that time. Too bad they weren’t able to push it out the door closer to the 12 months originally requested since I think it could have been a phenomenal upgrade in mid 1943. Oh well that’s aviation design in the 1940s. Thanks for the awesome vid and I really did learn a lot from your video sir.

[@ThommyofThenn]

18:02 bro looking like Odo in that episode of DS9 "Far Beyond the Stars" where Sisko loses it and goes on an epic vision through 1950s turmoil of NYC

[@teehasheestower]

I cannot believe Ed's call was the right one. Cannot believe it.

[@TheSchultinator]

Makes sense to me, the BTD was so long in development that aircraft tech, design, and development passed it by

[@thomasm9384]

I had a great time in war thunder with this plane! Getting shot down all the time is sort of a drag on the fun, but if you get in a head on with those nuclear 20 mills you can negate that threat.

[@pennycarvalho1223]

Always love when people find out about the BTD’s asymmetrical rudder and become disgusted

[@SoloRenegade]

5:00 what does a tricycle landing gear look like Without a nosewheel?

[@CodyDockerty]

As a Saints fan... I understand missed called. Also I have Chase and Jackson in my fantasy league so that was also good for me

[@simtalkayak]

I'll be honest the first time i ever saw or heard of this plane was in W.T. I think it's a fine looking aircraft I'll be honest, maybe even in my top 5.

[@zerstorer335]

If they’d allowed the initial contract to be completed, I wonder if those planes might have shown up in the Korean War as part of the “we need some kind of weapons in the Pacific, but the new stuff is focused on going to Europe and the US” phenomenon that was part of what saw the F-82 flying in Korea.

[@Derekhenseler]

The BTD is one beautiful warplane. With its huge gull wings, canopy, and huge rectangular shaped body.

[@MainesOwn]

this is one of my favourite attackers in a well known video game where they sold this as a premium vehicle. Great machine.

[@jimmyneutron5679]

you cant buy it anymore? I fucking hate that heap of garbage xd Atleast 15 year old me did after buying it... Now im okay with it

[@jimpeacher8930]

Unit # 1891 currently is on static display at the Paulding county airport museum. One of 2 surviving examples.

[@chrismartin3197]

Isn’t there only 1 left? The one in GA is the one that was in NY?

[@Zbigniew_Nowak]

Interesting machine, very futuristic demands for those times, it seems to me... Remotely controlled weapons, laminar flow (I didn't even know it was already well researched at that time).

[@bofwappy]

Curtis was notorious on reusing designs the P 40 and the Helldiver had the same wing.

[@randallreed9048]

Not a bad effort. The comments are very good and shows a lot of knowledge and interest, better than many other aviation sites. Well done, guys, but kank the narrator's annoying voice...

[@michaelgautreaux3168]

Ed was the perennial planesmith.

[@chris_hisss]

Are you suuuurrre he didn't want the bigger engine for the skyraider? I have never heard of that kind of a situation where a plane designer didn't want the latest and best powerplant for the job proposal. Not sure if he was privvy to the problems with Beoings B-29 issues but those fires were problems with nacell designs. They already were to be using it on the XB-19

[@Dumbrarere]

Every action taken in developing an aircraft has an unforeseen drawback. Bigger and more powerful engines can be a boon to the aircraft's performance, but if the calculations don't factor in the bigger fuselage and other modifications needed for the bigger engine, the increased dry weight (as in, the weight of the airframe minus fuel and ordinance) can in turn can do more to hinder performance than you can get out of it. Conversely, a smaller, weaker engine can reduce that dry weight considerably, but then you have the situation of not having the engine performance needed for a specific task (which funnily enough is the exact problem that plagued the F-84's development, given how lolweak early turbojet engines were). It's always a balancing act between pro and con, especially when designing naval aircraft in the early to mid 1940s, when CATOBAR ops were but a twinkle in an engineer's eye. In this way, I can understand Edward Heinemann's hesitance to adopt the bigger engine.

[@Deviation4360]

Part way through this video I thought you were talking about nutritional supplements, BTK----2C----XPTD--2--Pee 🤪. Luckily Ed Heinemen also cleaned up the nomenclature too.

[@lancaster5077]

What is the parasol monoplane at 0.49 ?

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

It's the XF12C-1.

[@lancaster5077]

OK erm why ?

[@membranealpha5961]

@@lancaster5077 no way you just said "erm"

[@dancahill8555]

When was the Martin Mauler designed and ordered?

[@ppszthunder]

Hey, IHYLS! Could you please make a video about the polish light bomber the pzl.p23 karaś? PS fun fact it was the first plane to bomb Germany in WW2.

[@JohnW-gz4db]

One of th prototypes ended up in th short lived museum at Florence, SC just off I-95 in mid 90s.

[@scootergeorge7089]

Great video; very informative. And further proof of the brilliance of Edward "Ed" Heinemann.

[@thelandofnod123]

To be fair, most countries dive and torpedo bombers at that time were pretty lacklustre, until the country that had reasonable ones used them and most others made a big audible gasp.

[@tbd-1]

11:25 Not to mention building B-17s under license.

[@alan6832]

Abandoning the Destroyer on the assembly line seems like a huge mistake to me since the Sky Raider was too late for WW2 and a good late war dive bomber was badly needed, plus the Sky Raider would have easily been ready for Korea anyway. Douglas was almost finished developing the Destroyer and should have taken the few months to finish. Even if this set Skyraider development back a few months; in the event, there was no major war during those few months.

[@MrCateagle]

SBD was an improved development of the Northrop BT-1.

[@christopherandersch1299]

It kind of looks like a B-26 , not the marauder

[@KevinBower-gy5be]

Allies = 'Dauntless' - 'Helldiver' - 'Devastator' - 'Destroyer' - 'Mustang' - 'Lightning' - 'Spitfire' - 'Hurricane' - 'Liberator' - 'Thunderbolt' - 'Havoc' - 'Superfortress' etc. etc. Germany = 109, 110, 163, 262, 190, 152, 200, 52, 87, 88, 111, 177, 219, V1, V2 ....

[@lancaster5077]

And upside down engines

[@eyerollthereforeiam1709]

I never thought of that.. You're right.

[@johnking6252]

My favorite the " Flying Fortress ". 👍

[@chrisstahl2653]

**, **, Komet, Schwalbe, Würger, Condor, Stuka,**, Doppel-Blitz, Greif, Uhu, **, **

[@mbr5742]

​@@chrisstahl2653V1 and V2 are names. Shortcut für Vergeltungswaffe (Vengeance weapon) The real designations where Fi 103 and Aggregat 4

[@halonsox]

Why did they spent resources on that plane having the wonderful A1D Skyrider? 🤔🤔🤔

[@chrismartin3197]

The BTD was first, Skyraider didn’t start until later

[@johnreed9435]

The Vindicator did not get vindicated here

[@theironknight3kgamez639]

War thunder needs to add the version with rear mounted guns 100%

[@Leo_Sneedinsky]

Based Ed Heinemann!

[@sharzadgabbai4408]

Ironic, The SBD ,Swordfish took out the axis navies while their replacements were largely fubars.

[@RyeOnHam]

Al Michaels sounds like he's bored because he actually is bored. Probably a good time to retire. That's what I liked about John Madden. He was thrilled to be near a football field for any reason. TONS of enthusiasm.

[@glennvogt1194]

Is it me or does that prop look like it belongs on a P-47 Thunderbolt?

[@treyriver5676]

It would have been nice to in 1942 to have had the angled deck, corkscrew motion and all. 4:03

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Sorry, thr Royal Navy was too busy fighting the war to invent it.

[@tonydrake462]

Vultee A-31 Vengeance vide - like a nose wheel version...

[@DraftySatyr]

4:01 Why include a picture of the (post-war) modified Essex class carrier with the angled flight-deck? Doesn't add a great deal of credibility to your channel to include this.

[@brookeshenfield7156]

Interesting. Mahalo and All Hail the Algorithm!

[@seeingeyegod]

I'm trying to figure out if a lot of these types of channels have a narrator with a weirdly monotonous "news caster-ish" speaking cadence because they are AI, or they are trying NOT to sound like AI.

[@demonicsquid7217]

He only has one nostril.

[@jasons44]

If it just had a stronger engine it would be better for sure

[@DRAGONSLAYER1220]

SB2C: Sonuvabitch 2nd Class!

[@davidjernigan8161]

Perhaps Curtis Wright should have concentrated on either engines or aircraft instead of trying to do both.

[@speedandstyletony]

"from Santa" 😂

[@MaticTheProto]

so youre telling me the BTD-1 in War Thunder has a way cooler brother?

[@anareel4562]

cold take, sports calls have sucked the last few years because of sports betting.

[@onenote6619]

Well, the BTD Destroyer was not rejected by it's designer. A predecessor was designed by Ed Heinemann and Douglas decided to mess with it without Heinemann's input. The result was rejected because it's performance sucked. Associating it with Heinemann is both incorrect and insulting.

[@Panuch412]

Great video and Go Steelers! lol

[@plflaherty1]

Yes, we'll see your rat birds soon. Resistance is futile! Another good vid BTW.

[@pavelavietor1]

America is a continentemente no a country that participates in wars. saludos

[@jimcurt99]

Love your videos- but can't stand the Ravens :) GO STEELERS!

[@boboala1]

-...about refs: Let 'em play ball!

[@paulwillard5924]

Early attempt at Skyraider….

[@franksizzllemann5628]

When the P-51 was lost to a collision with a Skyraider at an air show a few years back I was taken by the size of the two planes, the Mustang being considerably smaller. Another thing with the Skyraider is I always think "B-29 engine" on a fighter, Merlins do the same thing, for a reverse example, a Lancaster has 4 Spitfires tugging it along (humor.)

[@garretcook3701]

Why is this model not in war thunder 😭😭

[@mikequigleyorruneoform7096]

Destroyer? It is. or at lest it was last time I played. Used to fly it in sim battle all the time.

[@jimeditorial]

Did Douglas ever build a bad airplane pre-merger?

[@garyhooper1820]

I think they wisely knew when to stop work on a design , and start over . Many designers seemed to push ahead on projects that were either poor performers ,or obsolete by the time it was finished . Some British designs are great examples .

[@c4sualcycl0ps48]

4:17 your words paired with the picture is just too damn funny