Removal Density in Cube

At a viewer request, we are going to look at removal density in cube. How do we figure out how much to run, and discuss some tools for determining this number. Also, we briefly talk about tailoring the removal in your cube to your format.
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[@666Metalbassist]

I just started building my first cube and this channel is really helping

[@XTMARIO101]

Watching through all of these videos. This is an incredibly engaging and helpful channel.

[@MelsPicks]

Okay, I don't know what I appreciate more, the excellent Cube advice or the gorgeous visuals in the video! The opening picture of Vivien staring down Obosh with embers floating up in the foreground is BEAUTIFUL!

[@MelsPicks]

What is the card art that appears at 5:38 in the video? Another beautiful scene with the rain and the flaming torches!

[@cubefortwo]

@@MelsPicks It is art that was commissioned by wizards for wallpapers during return to ravnica block. Sadly, it has never appeared on a card: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/lost-wallpapers-2012-12-06

[@fingerling1231]

I built a premodern cube last year (cards only from homelands up to 7th edition), it's my first and only cube and I've decided to give it a big revamp. I limited the power due to budget but thought I'd add in some stronger stuff now like sneak attack, reanimated, etc. I've found your channel has brought a wealth of knowledge having watched a dozen of your videos recently. I'm going to consider my removal and hand disruption densities based on the premodern meta, lower the curve for red, add more burn and the list goes on. Thank you very much for the content. I'm sure your channel would have a hundred thousand viewers if cube construction was more popular due to the high quality of your content and insights.

[@0QanonymousQ0]

Helpful video, thank you :) I've just recently done a removal reduction as many drafters felt that it was currently too oppressive. One thought about the templating in your video is that you give percentages of the deck that are removal compared to the whole deck (60) rather than compared to the nonlands (~37) which is actually what is represented in the draft pool

[@brandonharrison3548]

Another great video! Here's what I've got at 565 powered. This also doesn't include the multicolor removal. W - 16 - This includes planeswalkers that have other utility as well as board wipes. U - 15 - This includes things that steal other things and counters that can permanently remove a spell from the stack. Blue's removal can also be tempo related, though, so don't forget the things that only serve to annoy your opponent by bouncing and tapping their stuff. Sometimes you only need to "remove" it for a turn. B - 20 - This again includes planeswalkers that may or may not be used as removal. There's also discard spells that I didn't include that could technically remove a threat preemptively. I also didn't include the build-around symmetrical removal like Braids, Cabal Minion, Pox, and The Abyss. R - 22 - Removal in red is strange because almost all of it doubles as reach to burn your opponent out. You also have cards that remove creatures sometimes, but not always like Grim Lavamancer, Siege-Gang Commander, Inferno Titan, Shrine of Burning Rage, etc.. G - 3 - Green doesn't do removal, really, but there are some options. Don't forget that green's artifact removal can also sometimes blow up pesky artifact creatures.

[@MelsPicks]

Here is what I currently run in a 360 Vintage Powered Cube: White - 8 Blue - 9 (includes counter magic) Black - 16 Red - 10 Green - 0 Gold - 6

[@Шутняра-ц3з]

Oh, this is the topic I was very curios about. Thank you for ideas! I'm not sure, though, whether it's correct to not count Thoughtseize's in Mobo-black list (1:33). I'd say this deck runs 15 removal spells, which changes the percentage. On the other hand, I support the idea of running 6-8 removal spells in cube Aggro lists. My own experience: I'm an advocate of running 63-65 removal pieces (including discard) at 360 cards, unpowered, Legacy level power band. So far it's been working pretty nice, but I'm open to suggestions of my duders :)

[@cubefortwo]

I made a conscious decision not to use to discuss hand disruption in the first example. In education they call it scaffolding. With the first example you keep it simple and discuss the concept, then you build in (scaffold) more complexity with each following example. I would 100% count thoughtseize as removal, and I would pay attention to density of it also when Templating decks. In fact, when I template, I tend to seperate the kinds of removal and calculate their percentages seperately, hand disruption vs. creature removal vs. board wipes etc.

[@Шутняра-ц3з]

@@cubefortwo Aha, I see, it had pedagogical aims :) Totally support you on counting different sorts of removal effects separately. Playing, say, 12 1-for-1 removal spells instead of 10 1-for-1's + 2 sweepers in a control deck seems lackluster, especially when red fun police delays you. At least in my environment.

[@januszo.2180]

Hurray for passing 1000 suscribed! Congrats

[@zoesidener7724]

Great video as always! Could you maybe do a video on tokens at some point?

[@cubefortwo]

love tokens, play a selesnya tokens package in my cube that frequently splashes red for rabblemaster type cards. take a look at my cube in the notes above.

[@thearcenist]

Thank you so much for this! I have since changed my channel name... But look, I do like burn. I knew it would be a complex question but as usual, you sum it up beautifully.

[@cubefortwo]

My pleasure.

[@olivierovalente8572]

Hi! Thank you for all the good content! I also run a "cube for two" so I'm very grateful for the existence of this channel! You kinda got me hooked on cube balance and therefore I have a question about a topic that is not very discussed and I would like to hear your approach to cards that polarize matchups like 1UU Narset or baby Teferi, or lifesteal equipments and protection cards. When is a polarizing card acceptable for your environment and when it creates unbalance?

[@cubefortwo]

For me, and I have to emphasize for me, I have cut baby Teferi, more because he is either busted, or meh. In the control mirror he is god-like, in midrange matchups he is a bad reflector mage. I have left Narset, as she plays fine most of the time, and is only occasionally polarizing, though this may be specific to my playgroup. I don't like protection as a mechanic, so I only play Mother of Runes/Giver of Runes and nothing else with protection. I think it makes some matchups, "oops I win." this is not my favorite. I am not playing lifelinking equipment so as not to hose the aggro deck. So, I guess my approach is to mostly cut these cards for the sake of balanced/fun gameplay.

[@olivierovalente8572]

@@cubefortwo Thank you very much for your advice! Man keeping balance is a hard task ^^'

[@seanedgar164]

Played my cube for the first time last week, it went great but threats stuck around for most of the game (commander cube). I'd forgotten that multicolour, artifact and land slots would dilute monocoloured removal

[@nicotinedreams]

Why did you choose not to use the concept of asfan in your explanation? It's a metric many cubes use to help evaluate their removal density.

[@cubefortwo]

Asfan is an excellent tool for determining the overall density of something. Wizards frequently uses it to track card types, like gold cards in Ravnica sets, or Planeswalkers in War of the Spark. I think the concept is less useful here as it does not actually let thearcenist determine how many removal spells to run, but would instead let him track what is basically percentages.

[@jibux4012]

Hey can we get a discussion about the draw 7 type of cards? I know they're good in storm. I know they're good in combination with leovold and narset. But should I be running them in my cube if I don't run any of the above archetypes/ cards? I would like the talk to cover from timetwister to winds of change, including memory jar, echo of eons, wheel of Fortune, time spiral, commit/memory, time reversal, windfall, day's undoing or even emergency powers. Thank you, I really enjoy your content!

[@cubefortwo]

sorry, I don't know how I missed this comment. The short answer is probably not, I could see running some of them if you are in a powered vintage environment (running moxen, lotus, etc.)These decks can have a tendency to dump their hands, ands need to reload, but without the above mentioned archetypes, I am very unlikely to run these cards.

[@jensjohansen8050]

Out of curiosity, how do you count up your removal? Where is the cut-off point? Does Negate and Law-Rune Enforcer get on your list? After I saw the video, I tried counting up my own removal, but there are certainly cards that fall into a grey zone. Which cards do you label as removal"?

[@cubefortwo]

Negate, yes, law-rune no. My rule, and remember it is my rule, so others may not agree. Does it remove a permanent from the board, or prevent it from hitting the board in the first place.

[@joelmonteiro1419]

Great video! You're a fantastic cube content creator and I hope we get to play with your cube on MTGO soon since Wizards is opening up to the community. This is your sencind video on balancing, and my cube has one clear balancing flaw I also encounter on MTGO cubes: blue is too powerful. It has card draw, interaction and lots of tempo plays. What I wantd to ask you is how do you balance blue in your cube without cutting powerful favorite cards like Time Walk or Ancestral Recall?

[@cubefortwo]

So, the short answer is... you can't. Once you enter vintage/power nine territory, blue is the strongest color, probably followed by black. In this environment, I think the only way to "balance" things is to warp the cube and have a larger U/B sections and smaller w/r sections. Also I would recommend keeping the cube as small as possible (360 ideally) as this will reduce the number of tier 2 & 3 cards you need. Also, midrange probably can't exist in this environment because the mana is too fast. Control decks with rocks, and jump to "endgame mana" on turn 4. I am not an expert on vintage cube, but those would be my first thoughts.

[@bolassnowman7429]

Do you recommend Regicide for cube? It's like Doom Blade but 1 less mana. What are your thoughts?

[@cubefortwo]

I have played it in pauper. The nature of the card is that it will be a dud in some matchups. Pauper does not mind as much because removal there is so bad anyway. In traditional unpowered cubes, I would just play another doom blade variant. Cast Down or something like that.

[@Cryonicity]

i was looking for a new video and it found me!

[@DrinCalhar]

Could you do a video on devotion of gods in cube?