Removing, Insulating and Restoring a Suspended Wooden Floor. Part 1 of 3

[@TimothyEdDoran]

Thanks for the advice. We have just finished doing our floor as you described. Also bought the floorboard lifter and it is excellent.

[@BentoBlocs]

I've embarked on the same project as this - really useful video, thanks! Quite a few of our boards were had longitudinal splits, so levering them up was causing them to split down the middle. To overcome this, we used a bottle jack propped on a few bits of scaffold board, and a bit of scrap wood between the jack head and the board to spread the pressure. This lifted even the badly split boards without damage. It's slow work, but we really wanted to preserve all the boards we could - hopefully this helps someone!

[@george9710]

Great content but here are a couple of pointers from experience. Get an Eastwing crowbar. It's absolutely not the same for 2 reasons, it's much lighter, it's much thinner and leaves virtually no damage to any of the boards, skirting, walls. 2nd and more important, there's a trick to taking out old triangular nails. The nails even after 100 years are still quite flexible. Take the crowbar and place it at the widest part of the nail that you see. Twist the nail to it's in a positions parallel to the joist. Try pulling it now. Twist the nail usually loosens it and makes the job much easier with no damage to the wood. If you have a nail with no head, DO NOT hammer it down. Turn the nail a few times so it twists on itself. Now you have something to grab on with the crowbar. Put the bar under the twist and pull. If it doesn't work, twist a bit more and try again. Rarely, but sometimes, nails just won't come out in which case keep twisting. After about 3-4 rotations the nail will break and it will be under the surface of the wood so no nail punch needed. Also, if money allows and it really should allow, don't put the old floorboards on and go get some flooring OSB. It's a structural material meaning that it's stronger than your old boards it will provide squeek-free installation if glued and screwed, it's relatively inexpensive, and really, if you are refurbishing your floors putting down the old boards seems daft (IMHO)

[@Shining-Star-]

In the U.K. we have very old houses often over several hundred years old. We don't just rip out our history without a care. Salvaged Victorian boards are in high demand here. Also many old houses are listed buildings so you would not be allowed to rip out the history of the house without prosecution. Many homeowners actually sand the old pine or oak Victorian boards and varnish them giving beautiful period results which are highly sought after. This is in keeping with the history of the houses. These ancient houses have stood the test of time for several hundred years. Retaining the original features actually adds value too.

[@eternalfizzer]

I just pulled half the boards in a room of my 1892 rowhouse - tongue and groove boards so dry some split at the nails. Since I could trim off one end (to install a new bottom plate), I had a loose end I could pry up with (gently). Gradually, I learned to squeak up the next joist's nails, then put a prybar under that section and step on the free end to pop up the next section. Tongue and groove made things a lot trickier. Thanks for showing how you did it - validates my methods (numbering boards, pulling nails) and gives me a few ideas (love your lifting bar!).

[@SirShoX0r]

A nice trick for nails without heads is to put a set of mole grips onto the nail and use your claw hammer to pull the clawhammer+nail out.

[@falfield]

Spot on tip, though I've found that old brads that have rusted a bit (esp at the ends of the joists near outside walls) need more leverage than a claw hammer can manage - but a 24in crowbar does the trick. And where careless "It'll do!" builders have hammered brads flat to the joists, using the mole wrench with the brad STILL angled and the crowbar tip beneath it means that nearly all will come out OK, whereas trying to straighten the brads before pulling will snap arounf half of them.

[@eternalfizzer]

Would love to see how you got the first board up :-)

[@tomybino1426]

I am looking to insulate floor in the hallway. It is a suspended floor with 100mm joists. I will need to lift the floorboards. I want to replace the boards with plywood. It looks that the joist are 400cm center. Old boards were 21mm. I also want to use 21cm ply. Can I please ask you 3 questions. First, what kind of plywood should I use. Second, what kind of glue for squeak prevention (I want to be able to lift things in the future to access services). Finally, what type and size of nails . Your help is very very apprenticed.

[@TheRestorationCouple]

If lifting floorboards anyway then yes it’s best way to insulate, whether PIR or soft insulation. Ply is usually standard at 18mm, you would be better using t and g flooring if it needs to match height, it will also lock together better, (caber floor type) . Screws and glue, ( apart from any hatches which can just be screwed)

[@tomybino1426]

The Restoration Couple Well I have insulated my living room floor. The lifting bar was such a help. Made the job of lifting floor very very easy and many boards came off without damaging. I have used PIR and 22mm P5 chipboard. Hard work but the sub floor rock solid. I did not glue. I have used spax chipboard screws. I want to be able to take the while thing a apart. Engendered click type wood will be on top. Worst comes worst, I will lift it all and glue everything. I was first planning to reuse the floor boards but they are not hardwood. It is oak. Once I get a table saw, I will recycle the wood. I do not regret this decision. 22mm Chipboard feels so solid. Accidentally I have left a pice of board in rain for a few days. Zero damage. p5 is really moisture resistant.

[@sa1m1r]

How do you deal with floor boards which extend from the main room, under the stud wall and into the hall? Also, it would be nice to show how you remove the 1st board. Very helpful. Thanks

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Brick internal walls so they stopped before the walls. First one fortunately was a section someone had taken up previously and screwed down. If I did it again I would probably punch the nails down through to get up first board.

[@JF-zv4oc]

Hi - great video... Can you please write the name of the floorboard puller? Google isn't coming up with any answers when searching for the one you have. Thanks...

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Hi Jamie. It is called a lifting bar. I got mine from screwfix. Made by roughneck. Such a handy tool to have!

[@pa1668]

Please tell me where u got the floor board lifting bar ..i can buy or hire. cant find around my area in Enfield

[@TheRestorationCouple]

It’s made by roughneck and can be bought at screwfix or Amazon etc. I think there is a link in the video but if not it’s easy to get hold of.

[@pa1668]

Thank you ..Screwfix had one....brilliant

[@juanfcgb]

Great video! I'm planning to use all this great step by step video to renovate the wooden floors from my living room. I have another project in mind, so basically the master bedroom has a 1m height void below. How difficult do you reckon it'd be totally removing the joists underneath so I can lower the floor to the ground of the house? This would allow to gain an extra 1m height. The house is a 100 years old Victorian end of terrace with a mix of debris, cement and soil under the floating flooring of the master bedroom. Can you see any potential structural issues with this? I could see there's multiple sleepers but I thing these are just to hold the joists? Thanks in advanced :)

[@swanthorn]

brilliant video!! many thanks!

[@jonathanmowll6332]

Really useful guide - thanks

[@umbertogiannini]

Great video, doing exactly the same myself in our front room, still not sure about insulating underneath.

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Thanks for the comment. We have noticed a huge difference and so glad we did it, highly recommended.

[@MaZEEZaM]

Just make sure you find out the likelyhood of there being any asbestos, EXTREMELY dangerous and needs specialist removal, breathing it in literally gives you a likely cancer in 30 years time called asbestosis, horrible painful way to die young.

[@AndrewGibbins]

Hi, loved the video. I just did our floor a few weeks ago, however we used a pir product and I chose to treat the joists .... Just because really. Anyway I have a question, I have seen conflicting opinions on fitting a vapour barrier above insulation (specifically pir). I note that you chose to fit one, can you point me to the guidance on it? Cheers

[@patbreslin5793]

+Andrew Gibbins Did you have any joy in finding out about the need for a vapour barrier?

[@TheRestorationCouple]

+Pat Breslin vapour barriers are essential to ensure the warm air from the house does not condense as it hits the colder air below. It also stops draughts coming up which is a massive improvement especially if boards are not tongue and groove. PIR insulation is foil faces and is a vapour barrier itself however you would probably have to tape over the joists to keep it continuous.

[@AndrewGibbins]

+Pat Breslin Hi Pat, I used pir and used expanding foam and ALU tape on all the joins and intersections between insulation and joist. The reasons were exactly as +therestorationcouple described. good luck

[@happyxda]

Hi - I need to insulate underfloor but i have a nice floating floor (engineered wood) ladi over 18mm chipboard floor. the chipboard is nailed onto joists. I believe the floor is click lock pattern. Please can you advise how can i remove the floor without much of damage?

[@cillianpaget]

Great video! Why did you put the vapour/damp proof layer down after the wool insulation? Do you not need to protect the wool from rising damp? Thanks

[@TheRestorationCouple]

The sub floor area is fully vented so no need. The vapour barrier above stops the warm house air condening within the insulation.

[@Messimagician83]

Hows the floor now since its been insulated ? Can you get under the floor at all from another room to see if condensation is forming ? Wouldn't nailing through the vapour barrier cause condensation in the joist ? How did you seal the cut outs around pipe work coming up through the floor ? How far did you take the vapour barrier over to floors which have not been insulated. I'm looking to insulate my living room and dining room but I'm just a bit concerned it might cause problems so want to make sure i do it right. Thanks

[@TheRestorationCouple]

No problems at all. We have access to both a cellar and another crawl space and have checked for any moisture and to make sure the insulation was still in place. The vapour barrier did the whole room and up the 6'' or so behind the skirting. Where they met an adjacent solid floor we lapped it over the tile by an inch or two and then the threshold sat onto of that. Pipes we just pushed up through a small hole, you could use rubber gaskets which are airtight but we were happy with a snug hole. Nail holes are just a calculated risk however after speaking to several experts the general consensus is that once the boards are tight down to the joists the opportunity for condensation would be minimal. Our sub floor space are well vented and the sheepswool is able to breathe from below so at least if there was any moisture build up it has somewhere to go. Hope that helps. TRC

[@Messimagician83]

TheRestorationCouple Thank you for taking the time to respond and great work. I just have a couple more questions. Did you put any insulation above the vents when you made the ramp using dpc? Where did you purchase your vapour membrane from ? Did you just trim the vapour barrier to the skirting board hight after? All my floor is of suspended joists, would having uninsulated floors next to an insulated one where the vapour barrier only covers the insulated floor cause problems?

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Messimagician83 I think there was some insulation above the 'ramp' bit, just whatever brought it up to joist height. Vapour barrier we used was a thicker damp proof membrane however you can get various thicknesses, all available at any builder merchants or DIY store. We left it around 6'' to big on each wall then taped it to teh wall. The skirting went on later and covered that. Can't see any major problems with the two rooms providing you have a complete barrier over the insulation. If you do teh adjacent room in the future you would ideally want to tape teh barriers. I am by no means an expert so please do other research if you are still unsure. Hope that helps. TRC

[@dreamkiss]

when it comes to materials for insulation, I see some people use Kingspan 100mm boards, which is better rockwool or something like kingspan? I guess both have pros and cons

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Kingspan is a good option too. If the sub floor area is potentially damp like most old houses then a breathable insulation can be better. I’ve done both though.

[@criartoros]

Great video. What is that tool called you are using?

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Roughneck lifting bar.

[@criartoros]

@@TheRestorationCouple thank you

[@OldManAkers]

Nice. I'm surprised, no tongue and groove. Is that typical in your area? Where was your project?

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Most Victorian houses around here (Somerset) are straight pine boards. T and g in Edwardian and later. As you can imagine, it was rather draughty before!

[@zeeshanaziz7424]

You never show that how your remove the first floor board :(

[@AndrewHelgeCox]

Did you check the joists were level and do anything about that if they weren’t?

[@eleftheria1463]

I have the same question! I’m currently renovating a 1960s semi I’ve just bought and I have all of my downstairs floorboards exposed and was considering insulating. There is loads of vibration in the joists if you have the washing machine on and I was considering noggins or props to try sort this out.

[@zedman442]

At this point would be a good idea to treat the timbers with a preservative and or wood rot treat, give it some extra life.

[@TheRestorationCouple]

+Zed Man Possibly for wood beetle prevention but to be honest they were dry and absolutely solid after 110 years so pretty sure it's unnecessary in our situation.

[@itansey]

Hi, how long did it take to remove all floorboards, install insulation and then relay. Thanks

[@TheRestorationCouple]

We were doing it along side lots of other rework such as wiring and heating, however for a 4x5m room, I would say that you could get it done in a weekend, plus the decorating and floor finish on top of that. That said, if you have to replace a few joists or find any other work needing doing it may be a little longer. TRC

[@WoodsmanocD86]

Hi.. Great video which I have learnt lots from watching.. One question on airflow.. I've recently moved into a Victorian house with timber under floor with void.. the soil is damp underneath and touching the joists in some areas so I'm going to drag all that out.. my main concern is ventilation.. I have 2 air bricks supplying 2 rooms.. the others have been covered up by a conservatory!! What are your thoughts on a vent I can open and close being fixed over the chipboard and carpet to aid some extra airflow? I know this will be a draft issue but is that worse than restricted airflow? I have no other way of installing an air brick .. Thank You .. Marcus

[@ChiefOfSprouts]

What did you end up doing with this? I’m about to embark on the same issue.

[@chris222233]

I have hardwood with no subflooring. Home was built 1955.

[@cgavin1]

Just wondering if you did this solely for insulation or were you also considering radon remediation?

[@gizmorow21]

Hi please could you help me, we like a house that are thinking of buying it is a timber frame built but it has a suspended timber frame floor this seems very non traditional why would a builder do this should we be worried how long is it likely to last thank sDave

[@TheRestorationCouple]

A suspended floor is quite a traditional way of construction and has been used for centuries. There are many reasons why a new build would have suspended floors and if recently built will have been insulated to current regulations already. Trc

[@TheRestorationCouple]

If well vented below there is no reason why a suspended floor will not out live you. Ours is over 100 years old and fine. Only downside I can think of is that more care needed to be taken when tiling.

[@jaquilicoe]

Hammering the nails back the way they came? That's a definite no no. Usually because the nails have been punched down somewhat, they split and take chunks of board with them if hammered back out. They have to be pulled through to avoid doing extra damage to the faces of the boards. How did yours work out? Wasn't there damage from hitting them back through the board?

[@TheRestorationCouple]

None at all. Because the are cut clasp nails and taper from the head they come back out without any issues. Will try and sort a follow up video sometime to update on what we did and how the finish is lasting.

[@jaquilicoe]

Thanks for the extra info. Now if I can find a bloody floor board lifter in Australia I'll be happy. Thanks for the vid. Wish me luck with VIc Ash tongue and groove boards!

[@bellrobert1978]

mine are full of rusty screws that i can't pull up. I need to buy a multi tool to cut through them all.

[@elvadelacruz9406]

Do you cut the tongue off before you remove it?

[@Marenqo]

Doing this damaged all my boards, will need to buy a new floor

[@mazambeliqbal3487]

hi I these call timber floorboard?

[@JuliusBangert]

Do you have any advise for me, I’m trying to follow this video series but i have tongue and groove floorboards in a 1930s house but they have been nailed from the top. So far it seems to be screwing up the edges of the boards when I use the lifting bar because the tongue of the board I’m lifting tears the upper lip of the groove it’s inserted in. Really want to save and reuse the boards after putting insulation in. Any suggestions?

[@R168Y]

Could you try taking them up from the other side? so instead of lifting from the tongue side, lift from the groove side. or vice versa.

[@akeemperez8509]

I'm trying to do this with my father's garage. it has a studio in top and he needs new floors dry wall and insulation. it's gonna be a bitch to do.

[@vandalstookthehandle]

As were are on a public site, I offer this PURELY as info for your viewers, who should be aware of all the info out there. I really am hoping there are no problems with your insulation. However, I need to insulate under my ventilated floor and was looking at using Celotex or Kingspan. They do have good thermal values in relation to there depth..and I only have 50 or 75mm to play with..however, as they are rigid materials I was concerned that as the wood moved with humidity changes the rigid insulation would not fill any gaps that might appear...So alternatively,I also researched wool insulation (as I hate the itchy stuff), and was all set to go. Unfortunately I then found the articles below and was unfortunately turned off big time...click the links below. I would love to know where the eco world stand now with wool insulation. Like I said at the start...I am hoping you have no probs with your insulation. Great vids, great logo and very professionally presented. ntenvironmentalwork.net/2011/05/26/problems-with-one-batch-of-wool-insulation/ www.thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=104796

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Yes we came across similar info when researching however the benefits of using a natural and breathable material was a huge plus. The wool we used was a blend and treated to ISO 3998 for Moths and Beetles. I would assume the problems may be more with the 100% natural, straight off the sheep's back type products! :-). PIR products are a good way to go if you can get a snug fit, however very costly if doing several rooms and only possible if removing the whole floor. There are lots of options out there, we just chose to go with the more sustainable route, you would certainly achieve a better U Value easier with other products.

[@johnnicholls7879]

vandalstookthehandle 1'

[@garvielloken3929]

Nooice

[@jameswilson2798]

You didnt show how you remove the first floor board , why not, surely thats the most difficult bit

[@TheRestorationCouple]

We had a hatch which was screwed down so we started there. However elsewhere in the house we simply punched the nails through on the first board, lift it and then pull the rest up.

[@Adamation2011]

Were these boards not tongue and groove?

[@arjuna207]

ikea hammer :)

[@cordeliablakeslee7964]

I am sure that you will find good way to make it on woodprix Webpage.

[@gizmorow21]

Forgot to say house is only 12 years old