The Cult of Tradition | Renegade Cut

CW: discussions of slavery, sexual abuse, and police brutality. Support Renegade Cut on Patreon: / renegadecut
#july4th #america
BIBLIOGRAPHY AND FURTHER READING
www.ushistory.org/us/23b.asp
• Myths About Confederat...
www.mountvernon.org/george-wa...
www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/0...
www.vox.com/2016/4/8/11389556...
www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...
Washington: A Life www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...
The Life of George Washington www.loc.gov/resource/rbc0001....
Stamped from the Beginning www.boldtypebooks.com/titles/...
A People's History of the United States www.harpercollins.com/9780062...
James Madison www.basicbooks.com/titles/ric...
Thomas Jefferson: The Art of Power www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...

[@renegadecut9875]

Re: racists vandalizing anti-slavery monuments "If you support anti-racist action, then what about supporting **racist** action? If you don't, you're a hypocrite." is not the own you think it is. Yes, I don't support the opposite of the thing I support. It's fascinating that racists think this debate is about whether vandalism is ever OK and not whether slavery is ever OK. You're kinda showing your hand there...

[@danquinn5812]

They can't even consider that framing as a possibility. For them, the reason they become so angered is because (in their minds) the topic of slavery is irrelevant. They're hard wired to be upset by the mere mention of the subject. They are trained by the media they consume and the people they socialize with to never seriously think about the original politicians of this country

[@havinfunfallin9458]

It would require they use the brain inside their head, these dumb fucks have shown they can’t stand to think.

[@jali4000]

It's amazing how they use that argument for everything. It's like, yes, I absolutely have a double standard. Fascism=bad, Anti-fascism=good.

[@theshunzun]

Wait what? How the fuck is that a thing people say? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS FUCKING COUNTRY???

[@mikhailschipani2018]

This hurt my brain...Like its like a logic problem with no logic...it physically hurt my brain... Like what, if you support anti raicst action you have to support racist action? Nah thats a contradiction that can never be reconciled..Is who ever said this okay?

[@themusicaljunkie37]

Left: take down racist status down! Right: no we must preserve history! Left: okay lets teach at school both good and bad about American history. Right: No! You are just trying to make us feel bad!!!

[@carlosmartinez3548]

Also the right: "fAcTs DoNt CaRe AbOuT yOuR fEeLiNgS"

[@Peanut_Chaos]

And horseshoe centrists: I literally can't tell the difference between those 2

[@Silver_Prussian]

@@carlosmartinez3548 the left: but muh fellings

[@justmeandthethree]

Sad but true.

[@5driedgrams]

If you teach real history they call you a critical race theorist.

[@redactedredacted6656]

It's strange that a country that glorifies revolutionaries is so against systematic change and actions that make a political statement.

[@TheFly212]

Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug

[@tankermottind]

because they were actually counterrevolutionaries

[@thisslime2109]

This statement hurts so much, because if the American myth is suppose to be what Americans fallow then protesting injustice and oppression should be the most "American" thing you can do.

[@dunningdunning4711]

@@SnakeOmni The majority of people as individuals, whatever colour their skin may be, are mediocre by the current standards of money, fame and influence. Hence the appeal of nationalism. Look at Trump's fourth of July speech, where he boasted about how great America is by listing the accomplishments of individuals. America isn't great because of Mark Twain - only Mark Twain is great because of Mark Twain - but people can feel good about themselves through association via patriotism/nationalism, while looking down on other nations simply because Mark Twain wasn't born on their soil. The standards are pathetic, and the people who use nationalism/patriotism to embody said standards by association are pathetic. American nationalism/patriotism's appeals are identical to racism's.

[@aidanwotherspoon905]

What I’m learning from this video is that their “revolution” was always about empowering aristocracy

[@ItsMeBeeee]

Out of all the arguments I've heard, the 'You know who thought slaves should be free? Slaves!' Really might be one of the most obvious yet totally missed points out of them all. The argument that 'Abolition was not a common idea' completely crumbles the moment you consider slaves as people, something that hierarchy could never accept. It is an absolutely foolproof, and unquestionable argument, thank you for that.

[@kylewilliams8114]

It shows how insidious the education system in America is. It taught us that slaves weren't people, nor did they have legitimate opinions. All implicitly, I never even thought of it that basically till now. Even being a leftist, I'm still shaking off the brainwashing.

[@isaaclafts7152]

It's impressive how such a obvious idea still hit so hard as I was watching the video. That moment really re-contextualized the back and forth between Leon and the hypothetical traditionalist up until then. I was sooo caught up on spectating the argument, that when the video reminded me that "slaves didn't want to be slaves. why aren't we considering their ideas?", I felt disgusted I was even reeled in to the conversation in the first place. It's scary how even debating these apologists requires one to validate their ideas by considering their bullshit worth responding to in the first place.

[@octopusmime]

@@kylewilliams8114 right. i'm thinking about my schooling and asking: where was the humanity? the direction never went there. we as a class were veered away from the reality of the situation, the emotions, the humanity of the enslaved and how barbaric and inhumane slave-holding is. it was such a lost opportunity to face the music. i remember feeling as if there was no room for any emotions to be expressed in the classroom. just about half the students were black, just holding all the feelings inside. wth

[@kylewilliams8114]

@@octopusmime they HAVE to suppress the humanity of the slaves, otherwise we would question the "Glorious Revolution" and the "Enlightened Heroes" who led us out of "Tyranny". I can't imagine what it is like for young African Americans learning about their ancestors as objects, property, things... it's disgusting that white supremacy is the default education curriculum in so much of the country.

[@AstraIVagabond]

That's (for people living in the West™, not to the same extent, but) how it works for all oppressed groups. Your opinions on your oppression are never as valuable as those of your "objective" oppressors.

[@odolowa1]

I don’t want to be that guy, but France didn’t abolish slavery in its colonies until 1794, which was reform brought in as part of the French Revolution and spurred on by the Haitian Revolution. I only bring it up because I feel that the Haitian revolution is an important part of the history of the world that is not spoken about enough.

[@dexterriley6997]

Very true

[@cabinfeverremedy5636]

I so agree!

[@grasswrenlouise6351]

Isn't it the only successful slave uprising in recorded history? I'd certainly call that significant.

[@april1969simnel]

After the Haitian revolution ended, France forced Haiti to "repay" the French government and French slaveholders what would be the equivalent of ~US$21 billion today for the "theft" of the slaves' labor and of the plantation lands. French and American banks were the "debt" brokers and it was finally paid off in *_1947._* 140-some years of their GDP went straight to France.

[@aidanwotherspoon905]

April Simnel that fact is both frustrating and illuminating; like, you can win a revolution, but the powerful will know that you’ve upset power, and they’ll make you pay, literally

[@wordsofdv]

Trump: "They want to remove Robert E Lee. Who's next? George Washington?" Protestors: "Yep." #BlackLivesMatter

[@wordsofdv]

@@KingBobXVI That's a very good point. I agree.

[@muddy7354]

@@wheelfan100 yeah

[@1MarkKeller]

@@wheelfan100 Socialism: What's good for the rich, should be good for everyone else too.

[@aslakgurnirsson1685]

The further right you go on the political spectrum the more valued hierarchy becomes. Conservatives value low taxes because it preserves the hierarchy between rich and poor. Conservatives value an overbloated military because it preserves the heierarchy between their own nation and others. Conservatives see no issue with police violence because it is a tool to preserve hierarchy, between the rich and the poor and between people with "white skin" and people with darker complexions. Conservatives value tradition because it provides the myths necessary to rationalise these hierarchies, for themselves and others.

[@pedrokatcradle]

Audre Lorde: " there is No, hierarchy of oppression. "

[@kenkoopa7903]

Preach!!

[@octopusmime]

well said!

[@jackbaker6767]

Aslak Gurnirsson Yess!! This has always been the political divide between the right and left. Conservatives don’t understand this at all. They’ll preach about how they care so much about freedom but they want to put up a border wall, increase the military and police power, ban porn, gay marriage, marijuana, etc.

[@mrmaniac3]

@@jackbaker6767 they wack off to weeks of that shit behind closed doors though Referring to porn, but idk maybe they wack off to gay people too

[@te-ter]

I have many conservative Christians in my life who'd say "it was a different time back then" while also claiming "morality is objective and given by God and God does not change" Of course they don't argue both things at once otherwise I suspect they would catch onto the contradiction.

[@optillian4182]

Religious doublethink.

[@vebdaklu]

There is no contradiction there, because "god" in that context is - themselves. They are stating that their opinions will never change, and one of their opinions is that slavemasters and racists are great people. Since they cannot change their opinion, they will defend it in any way possible. Those two things are not on the same level for them, so they will not catch any contradiction. You cannot logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into.

[@andrewboyko8304]

Traditionalists: oh so you hate slavery? How unamerican of you.

[@Saturnia2014]

If traditionalism is so great then humans should go back to living in caves and hunting and gathering. That's about as traditional as it can get.

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

​@@jeffersonclippership2588 While "who you were" factors into "who you are", the distinction is still significant. For example, even the most disturbing pockets of "christianity" in the US will still denounce the people from their past who used the bible to justify slavery. They're perfectly valid in pointing to the mistakes of their predecessors and saying "this is not who we are". The valid response to that wouldn't be "yeah it is", it would be "if that's true, you need to update the bible to reflect that." That's why the information in this video is so important. By showing proof that certain structures were specifically put up by racists for racist reasons, it could justify their removal as a way of "updating" the country to reflect better values.

[@itsaUSBline]

America was largely built on slavery and genocide, after all.

[@bryntendo]

@@Pensive_Scarlet Yes, but that only works if there actually is a difference between the 'who you were' and the 'who you are' parts. America has it's foundations in racism and it's history is steeped in racism, and also it is still very definitely racist now. The racism may look a little different, but the racism ingrained in American culture and structure is still just as much there as it was when people were more comfortable being so openly racist. America would need to radically change on a fundamental level to be able to claim 'that may have been what we were but it is not what we are now'.

[@thisslime2109]

@@itsaUSBline it's also built by slaves, and slave labor.

[@comradeanthony4120]

As an American myself. It's insane how NONE of this is taught in our schools. This is my first time hearing about the treaty between the Natives and England, or that England was slowly becoming anti slavery, or heck even the idea that war against the crown was unpopular. It's always been taught as some awesome heroic thing we all came together to do to fight tyranny! It's rediculous

[@mrmaniac3]

Gives me more reason to not want a high school diploma.

[@DARKKnight-lc4re]

Exactly I didn't even know Thomas Jefferson was a rapist

[@Suralin0]

Wait a fucking minute.... Are we the Draka?

[@akirasaito1551]

Wtf? I'm Canadian and I knew one of the primary reasons why the American revolution happened was because the Crown refused to let the colonies expand west (and also taxes, but mainly the expansion). I was 15 at the time. How tf do you guys not know this?

[@MeltingIcecapsDrawmybabyUps]

I live in Brasil, and I kind of studied a bit about this in school. Other countries have to learn about American history.

[@TheBleachj16]

"Too illiterate, unlearned, unread for his station and reputation" Trump might have more in common with Washington than I thought.

[@MorganDade]

It is incredible how difficult it is to explain that history books are history books and monuments are not.

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

Not really. It's actually pretty easy to explain. Yet most Conservatives and Right-wingers are still incapable of understanding that.

[@vanderdendur4640]

@@InfiniteDeckhand not incapable, they just do not *want* to understand

[@drasco61084]

People's cognitive dissonance is hard to overcome. The mythology of the USA is so deeply ingrained.

[@roxzannezook3269]

@@vanderdendur4640 I agree. They *want* to be angry

[@stilltoomanyhats]

The cold war was a pretty important historical episode, so surely every American town ought to have at least a few monuments to Stalin.

[@DexDavican]

I don’t think the purpose of Tucker Carlson’s rhetoric is to shame protestors, but rather to assure traditionalists that they’re already right.

[@ritterbrown5474]

Propaganda isn't to persuade the other side, it's to reassure the people who already believe

[@aidanwotherspoon905]

Yup

[@jamesfrancese6091]

Correct

Bravo. This feels especially appropriate after watching Hamilton this weekend. A friend of mine commented that Hamilton includes people of colour in a founding story that has traditionally excluded them, at the cost of not being especially critical of that founding story and its participants. I tend to agree. I value the acting and music in Hamilton, but this video feels like a more unflinching take on the foundation of America.

[@RT-dk7yv]

agreed. at the end of the day, hamilton is a broadway musical written with the aim of being commercially successful so i dont think we can look to it for anything more than a highly glamourized and glossed over version of events although the contrast between the hamilton streaming release and the climate of america was especially jarring.

[@m3rryg0ld]

I completely agree. The music and acting in Hamilton is some of the best I've experienced, and I really do love the show. However, there's a major issue with glorifying the founding fathers and glossing over addressing slavery and the treatment of Native Americans head-on. All throughout the "George Washington" portion of this video I was experiencing this conflict between these facts and the myths I had been raised believing about him in particular amongst the founding fathers. It's interesting that in the Hamilfilm, Washington's entrance in "Right Hand Man" is immediately met with cheering from the audience, and he is consistently portrayed as heroic throughout the show to line up with the myths that the audience believes about the kind of person he was, and about his contribution to the American Revolution.

[@Hurley815]

Even if people diss Hamilton for glorifying the Founding Fathers (which I really don't think is the case when you actually watch the show), I think they could acknowledge at least one kinda interesting thing. You (I'm not an American,so I'll just keep observing from the distance) now could potentially have an entire generation of young people that, when thinking about the mythological figure of George Washington, in their head, they now see a charismatic black guy. That maybe even if you can't ground the mythological idea of Washington in reality, you could at least reshape it so that it could truly be inspirational for the modern nation. And I think that's pretty neat.

[@octopusmime]

@@Hurley815 i have to ask though, how exactly does george washington being played by a black guy make anything better? how is that inspirational? it feels like a neo-liberal pat on the head in which nothing is learned , there is no resolution- its just a superficial empty gesture.

[@emmanuelrodriguez1970]

@@m3rryg0ld this is the only sensible reaction to something like Hamilton. The production can be enjoyable, but you can simultaneously hold the notion that the implications of the piece are problematic. While it seems incompatible, it isn't. I just saw a Vox article that was being pretty anti-wokescold because they cant silo that these issues are more nuanced than people want to admit. It's just disappointing that liberals can be as reactionary as the right when we criticize the actual basis of this nation's origins.

[@trapmason7731]

37:20 Brother I have to tell you, your point on Blacks as slaves being people and still not having their opinion count hits the nail on the head as to what the lense we were trained to see such issues from. I feel almost ashamed that even as a Black man I didn't consider the opinion of my own ancestors in such an obvious way. There truly is a lot of work to be done. Keep up the great work. Stay in peace 🙏🏾

[@1MarkKeller]

Facts!

[@SiiriCressey]

A friend of mine refuses to support Martin Luther King Day because it is "a made up holiday." I tried to explain to her that all holidays are made up.

[@flashmotorworks]

MLK day is far less made up than christmas or easter lol 😂

[@FieryFiendJazz]

That George Washington section is like hearing that Captain America is actually Red Skull son of Galactus. This is all pretty wild

[@MrSkabrus]

Well in secret empire he was a fascist

[@DexDavican]

I was struck by how much he has in common with Trump.

[@optillian4182]

"Hail Hydra."

[@user-rq8xx8ir9t]

well in secret empire....

[@michaelv3340]

Reminds me of when the Vietnam War memorial was proposed, the traditionalists hated the idea. They didn't want a memorial that didn't glorify the Vietnam War. They got a secondary statue near it that nobody cares about. It would have just been another statue nobody gave a damn about.

[@flyingsnake3737]

As a descendant of slaves, i want to Thank you for this video from the bottom of my heart. It made me cry just by the thought of knowing this country for the most part was founded so my ancestors could continue being slaves. I cant even find a reason to continue to live here anymore.

[@genieglasslamp5028]

What these people dont understand is that we still are not that far from slavery. Example me and great grandmother. Her great grandfather was a slave, she still tells me stories he told her. None of the stories are good. Sometimes it just hits me that I'm being told this.

[@way2kool89]

Медуса your ancestors were murdered so this land can prosper so that alone says you belong here

[@blitzkriegdragon013]

I would say if you feel no desire to live in a country (and you have the means) that is a good reason to move. I'm not saying "love it or leave it", merely that I have known several people who immigrated to new countries for the reason you have stated. It's perfectly valid.

[@danieldaw1778]

This is the first time I've even heard anyone acknowledge that Ol Georgie boy started the 7 Years War outside of my higher end college history courses. When I tell people he started a world spanning war with a frankly baffling screw up catastrophic proportions, it's funny watching them go, "No that can't be true... (Looks it up) holy shit it is true!"

[@ShnoogleMan]

I actually learned that one in Middle School. Still weird to think about- not only was he the founder of the US, but he was singlehandedly responsible for one of the largest wars in pre-modern history as a 21-year-old.

[@archer260]

@@ShnoogleMan There's a difference between being present and being responsible. Washington's native ally Tanaghrisson was the first to initiate the hostilities with the French. Washington followed suit and gave the order to fire, but from what records indicate, he was as lost in the confusion as anyone else.

[@VIVIAN81]

I never understood the argument that judging by "modern standards" is unfair I can just imagine the implied situation where the slaves beg for their freedom and the slaveowners say something like "I'm sorry, society hasn't progressed to the point where we view suffering as wrong" It's ludicrous, you don't need to "learn" that owning someone is wrong

[@rafaelneumann8365]

Also, abolitionists who believed slavery was wrong existed even in ancient times. And slavers still exist to this day.

[@1MarkKeller]

I never judge them on today's standards ... I just remind them that, "All men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And, that we hold these truths to be self-evident" Holding the "founders" up to their own ideals, from back then, which they codified into law, makes them unworthy of statuary honor.

[@ELM-ee8bt]

There is a book called "White Trash" that talks about classism between white Americans that started in colonies and how it evolved. I think it's an important read tbh. It pretty much shows that even if America didn't have a massive racism problem they'd still have a problem with class and how they treat the poor period.

[@willfully_jess]

Racism is the first step, after the poor whites understand that minorities aren't the issue there can be real progress -.-

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

In America, racism was (and often still is) a tool harnessed by the powerful to spur the poor and the middle class to create a distraction in order to prevent a revolution caused by class-consciousness and class struggle.

[@useroffline9999]

The Ugly Barnacle exactly. the reason so many “rural” poor white americans buy into conservative views is the lie they are fed by wealthy conservatives/- that the gays, minorities, women, immigrants, and liberals are ruining their lives, and not the wealthy conservatives

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

@@odysseusgreek461 What's the point if we don't learn from the past?

[@shinjite06]

Rascism keeps poor whites complacent. They get to think, 'I may be poor but at least I'm not black/mexican/etc' so they feel their position is better than it actually is and thus their desire to defend the status quo.

[@MakNCheese88]

I lived in Korea for a bit, met people from all over the world. It wasn't until then in my mid twenties that I was able to get out of the American bubble, and see the absurdities of some of our traditions and POV's. Pledge of allegiance before school, flags on stores and homes, national anthem before...everything. It was subtle at the time, but obvious in retrospect, how we are conditioned in the American Exceptionalism mindset. But it falls apart as soon as you're forced to justify it, just as "the traditionalists" in the video. Scary, but liberating to think about IMO.

[@BethDiane]

I've seen several descendants of Thomas Jefferson, black and white, arguing in print that the Jefferson Memorial aught to be rededicated to someone else.

[@SeanStrife]

After seeing this, as a descendent of Jefferson... add me to that fucking list.

[@hangukhiphop]

@m norton buswell this country needs more virtuous d-bags

[@mcwjes]

Maybe for Sally and the other enslaved people who endured their abuse and built their country.

[@mousebreaker1000]

American civil religion is one hell of a drug

[@etansivad]

It's called Jingoism.

[@kylewilliams8114]

@@etansivad but the special song and cloth on a stick! It's who we are!!1!

[@Rebazar]

Ideology

[@ApollyonZKX]

Just like the Imperial Cult of the Roman Empire eh?

[@ciamciaramcia99]

When talking about Jefferson, you ommited how he refused to execute the will of his good friend Tadeusz Kościuszko who ordered that after his death, his estates in US where to be sold, and profits used to buy freedom of slaves (including Jefferson's) and providing them educations so they can become proper citizens. Jefferson ofcourse refused to do so, even though he was named an executor of the will and witnessed the signing of it.

[@kylewilliams8114]

Kosciusko was a badass

[@1MarkKeller]

What???? None of the money that Kościuszko had earmarked for the manumission and education of his supposed freed slaves in the United States was ever used for that purpose.Though the American will was never carried out as defined, its legacy was used to found an educational institute at Newark, New Jersey, in 1826, for African Americans in the United States. It was named for Kościuszko.

[@artemiswolf4508]

“When Jefferson was 44 he requested Sally Hemmings to come with him” For a moment I was like “Why does that sound so familiar?” and then I realize. “... Sally be a lamb, darling won’t you open it” .... it’s a Hamilton lyric. JESUS CHRIST, was that really necessary?

[@wes8424]

Yikes...

[@pufflefluff843]

In the musical, they merely pass Sally off as like a secretary to Jefferson. It truly is disgusting.

[@bdp8102]

To be fair, I feel like Many people don't realize - probably due to Daveed Diggs being so charming and funny - that Jefferson is depicted as pretty villainous in Hamilton. I think that Sally Hemings line was meant to sound subtly entitled and careless. But I agree that is not nearly enough, and that for the most part he was depicted As antagonistic because of his difficult relations with Hamilton, and not because he was An all round monster.

[@TheN00bmonster]

Dang, I didn't know most of this, and I grew up with a US history teacher as a parent.

[@caelmack]

I learned these things for the 1st time from a college history professor. It completely changed my outlook on everything.

[@glitchedoom]

@@caelmack This is probably why the right thinks colleges are liberal brainwashing factories.

[@nocomment3294]

There was a quote along the lines of '' i have heard much about the benefits of slavery but have yet to meet one who wanted to be a slave ''

[@t_paine2151]

Okay, but Thomas Paine was the shit. We need more people in the comments talking about that. Among other things, he was: an abolitionist who at one point headed a publication that wrote a scathing critique of slavery; a supporter of women’s rights and worked closely with Mary Wollstonecraft (who wrote one of the first major feminist manifestos); an early advocate for prototypical forms of UBI and social security; a disbeliever in capital punishment; and a fervent supporter of the French Revolution, even helping to draft their new constitution. People need to study Thomas Paine more. He was the real deal-the true lover of liberty and humanity that traditionalists imagine the rest of the founders to be.

[@JC-jd1us]

KZbin has been around longer than the Confederacy

[@vanderdendur4640]

Pre-emptively answering reactionary rebuttals makes this video extremely satisfying beyond being just well-researched.

[@Rev-bb9ej]

38:03 This is so true, slavery was seen as weird back then just as it is now. The United States (and Brazil) are an anomaly not the rule when it comes to abolition.

[@zabm141]

Love your pfp

[@RoseEyed]

As a Black person the older I get the more and more alienated I feel about America's legacy and how we talk about American history. This video helps remind me of why. Especially the "You know who would've had a problem with slavery at the time? THE SLAVES" response to people saying no one had a problem with slavery at the time. Even something THAT basic points out how often the stories of the poor, women, and POC get ignored and dismissed. Sometimes maliciously, but other times not even on purpose. That's how ingrained these biases from our history are. Even if it makes sense that those biases are there in NOT taking the time to dissect or explain them we end up inadvertently reinforcing the very bigoted ideas we're supposed to be moving past.

[@mdGreene90]

John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave, but his soul goes marching on.

[@fluidthought42]

If traditionalists were actually honest about their desire for statues, then they would have already erected many statues to John Brown and other abolitionists. But there's a reason why the number of statues dedicated to Brown in America are so few. Traditionalists don't want to glorify revolutionaries, they want to glorify reactionaries.

[@frapseddatsht]

It's hilarious how rabid traditionalists get once they hear that name. All the 'nuance' and 'but complicated man' goes out the window as soon as you bring up the "murderous psychopathic terrorist". John Brown did radical things to free slaves. A hell of a lot of men they praise did radical things to keep humans in chains.

[@magneto44]

John Brown one of the few true historical American heroes first American to realize that you can negotiate with Nazis, hate is a cancer that must be rooted out and destroyed or it will eat you from inside destroying everything good in this world

[@pedroportillo1585]

The thing about tradition is that you have to find what traditions are work keeping, and which to do away with because they have no place in modern times. Some Old School traditions can teach you to be a more focused person, but others just damage who you might be because they are outdated (and dangerous) ideals.

[@CSXIV]

If a tradition serves a purpose, it deserves to continue. If a tradition's only justification is "because tradition," then maybe it's time to evaluate whether it should continue. If a tradition is actively impeding progress or causing harm, it needs to go. On a lighter note, this logic changed my opinion on a divisive, but ultimately meaningless debate: the DH rule.

[@roxzannezook3269]

tHeY'rE ReWrItTinG hIstOrY Have you ever even read a history book? Ever?

[@fabiangamboa1714]

did you watch the video? ever?

[@mrunseen3797]

Those people might be illiterate 🤔

[@jareddauer4015]

"Slaves would've opposed slavery" God damn, this seems so obvious and yet even as progressive as I am, this still never occurred to me. I honestly feel kind of ashamed. But I'll be damned if someone ever uses that "Abolition wasn't a popular movement" argument on me, ever again, without saying this. Thanks Renegade.

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

Probably because it didn't actually follow from the point he leapt off from to make that statement. Which had more to do with questions of the ethics of a culture that at that time and place was the province of people held themselves above those persons and did not take their wants and desires as a factor in their own world view. It's a correct and impactful statement in end of itself but in context it's something of a non sequitur.

[@adamantiiispencespence4012]

I think his rhetoric also lays such stress on the idea of the rich as information monopolizing, cultural puppet masters to such a degree that it ignores that people do buy into these ideas because they are propagandized even to their own generations. Mark Twain is a great example. The man was a spitfire abolitionist through much of his life and yet as a young man he joined a small squad of volunteers fighting for Missouri as part of the CFA and revealed that as a child he had bough into the idea of happy slavery because they were never shown the brutality of it. It was actually after leaving this group after they shot a man in panic after word of enemy advance that Twain left. Mark Twain who spent much of his life as one of the most virulent anti racists in American Literature of the time who said of the idea of racial superiority "that any child should know better" fell for it for a time because he was raised with it.

[@GarretRB]

“You’re destroying history” then I say “how about we put it in a Museum” them “well it’s not the same they want to destroy our heritage” me 🙄

[@stjaernor]

One caveat with Sweden abolishing slavery: 1335 was for thralls born to Christian parents specifically, and later only applied to slave-owning in Sweden. In the 17th and 18th centuries, Sweden had overseas colonies in the Caribbean where slaves were traded, and traded slaves with Britain and France. Trading continued until 1813, whereas slavery was banned in 1847.

[@Xondar11223344]

The same type of thing happened in England where there was a famous court case that affirmed it wasn't possible to be a slave while on the soil of England, so slavery always gets abolished in the home country first and finally in the colonies, the United States might be one of the few exceptions to that rule.

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

They 'traded' people...enslaved people.

[@TheSilverwing999]

Same in Denmark. We had slavery in island colonies close to North America even though it was mostly gone in our home country around the same time. So we were still complicit. Slavery was abolished in 1848 here, same year as France.

[@pdthorn]

I got 15 minutes in and wondered where the wrap-up was. This was is, rightfully, the length of a prestige TV episode. I LOVE IT.

[@artemiswolf4508]

I think Hamilton’s music would slap significantly less if the lyrics where “I was younger than you are now when I was given my first command... because I was rich and white” “I led my men straight into a massacre... because I shot a man completely unprompted” “I made every mistake... but I was rich and white so I was fine”

[@veggiedragon1000]

There are some songs in the mixtape that delved deeper into the slavery issue that weren't in the show, specifically the 3rd Debate. It made the show flow better as an isolated story without that context.

[@materialdialectics]

The other thing that really annoys me about these talking points about "preserving history" is that the removal of statues and symbols is PART OF HISTORY. We have learned much about our own past through seeing statues that look to have been removed or put in dumping areas etc in the archaeological record, indicating shifts in the ideals of a society or reactions to historical events. Also I find the best way to respond to the preserving history talking point is to ask them whether they believe former Warsaw Pact countries shouldn't remove statues of Lenin and Stalin. From my experience this usually results in them disappearing rather quickly if you press them on the question.

[@aidanwotherspoon905]

I once watched a documentary about how Putin is slowly phasing back in Stalinistic iconography in Russia today. I think if the Traditionalists knew about this and were asked, they would similarly disappear

[@oregonsenior4204]

"[Washington] became the first and only president to take up arms against his own citizens.." July 2020: not the only one.

[@lobosolo7675]

okay but Thomas Paine was pretty lit tho

[@mrmaniac3]

@@KiraDaBeastNY proud to be descended from Ingersoll :)

[@alexruddies1718]

Oh, Howard Zinn, I miss that man. Met him back in 2007. A very nice man, reminds me of my grandfather.

[@Pensive_Scarlet]

I feel a unique combination of "encouraged" and "disillusioned" when I realize the people acting out against symbols of racism are completely unaware of the actual historical racist context around the implementation of those symbols. It might be hopeless to expose the oppressors to the information here, but we *need* to spread this information to everyone suffering under the oppression. We need a unanimous response against the people claiming "it's just history" that will indisputably prove them wrong and make it more obvious than ever that the nay-sayers are just grifters parroting slogans for their paying audience.

[@theblakeney]

I really appreciate how deep you dive into this topic. Early US history is glossed over in schools and I didn't even learn the founding fathers owned slaves until adulthood. I love your critiques, but as a white southerner who doesn't engage in "heritage not hate", I especially like this one.

[@spaceylacey83]

In Mississippi, I was literally taught that slavery kept a roof over slaves heads and that most owners were kind to their slaves. That slaves fought in the civil war because they wanted to keep their jobs that gave them room and board. I heard it enough, from a young enough age, that I didn't critically examine the idea until the internet was a thing and I read Incidents in The Life of a Slave Girl. That fucked me right up.

[@taseenalrashid4168]

@Bill Jenkins ummm correct me if I'm wrong and I hope I am. But are you equating slaves to farming equipment?? And being a good 'investment' like some commodity? Please tell me my assumption is wrong.

[@Xondar11223344]

@Bill Jenkins Shut up, slavery apologist.

[@SophisticatedBanjo]

"They might've been your fathers, boy, but they wasn't your daddies."

[@SpoopySquid]

"You're the father of your country, but I'm your daddy!" - William Wallace, 2014

[@optillian4182]

RIP Yondu.

[@kaoxes]

Mary Poppins sure was wise.

[@rasp.74]

Any time anyone mentions 'the times' and 'common beliefs' etc., I tend to skip immediately to the, "Slaves always knew it was wrong. Stfu." Because to me that gets to the immediate heart of it and cuts the crap. The person suffering the abuse has always known that it hurts, and their perspective should be more relevant than any of the fuckers dishing out the pain anyway. It seems obvious that if you're honest with yourself, you have to also know that the people in power *also* knew they were being cruel - they just didn't care/felt entitled to the 'right' to keep their position/fight for it's continuation - but that bit just doesn't matter as much to me. Who *cares* what slave owners thought, whether or not they felt 'guilty' or imagined themselves innocent - it doesn't matter. They were *wrong* and what they did was unjustifiably terrible; they just happened to get away with it due to the makeup of the times.

[@muzasbar]

I’ve read many American History books, and while I knew about the FF’s elitist background and slave-owning, this video opened my eyes like nothing else.

[@alexn.2901]

How so?

[@sierrasouthwell9237]

American history textbooks are nothing but propaganda.

[@Quote23rd]

Until the Lion learns to write, stories will always glorify the hunter. African proverb

[@charliefoxtrot3980]

There is a trick you can do do conservatives yelling about keeping the statues that works a lot like Captain Kirk making a computer explode by giving it a logical paradox: Ask them if they are so upset about statues being removed, were they upset when American soldiers tore down the statue of Saddam Hussein, or when Russians tore down statues of Lenin when the Soviet Union collapsed?

[@whateverthisis389]

I am from the Philippines, and a friend of mine had moved to America a few years ago. During my time with him, he wasn't the most morally upright person, he would often bully people in school, and was a bit of a perv. When he moved to America, I noticed that he started becoming more conscious of his bad actions and slowly started turning more religious. I was originally supportive of him, as he had moved past his old ways, but I also noticed he started having more "unsavory" opinions about other friends, he would rant to me about spreading the gospel to our other, "degenerate" friends, so I often told him to spread the gospel with a soft hand. Soon, those unsavory opinions would slowly include other groups of people like Muslims and "Libtards", and ranted even more about the "Liberal Pedophiles" in American Schools and Government Offices, and how far the West has fell from their old, "Western Values". He even started ranting about how common sense policies like gun control and public transport are a bad thing cause they're symbols of "freedom". It saddens me that even people who had nothing to do with this Conservative Rabbit Hole can go so far down without realizing it.

[@tefky7964]

Power of their propaganda is truly masterful. As an atheist leftist, I can´t believe that they were able to make me support them 🥲

[@MissPoplarLeaf]

When you started the section about George Washington, I immediately remembered the story about the cherry tree that I read as a child... It's kind of crazy to realize how ingrained this mythology is.

[@pkmcburroughs]

Sorry, Leon, but I can't hear the words "huge tracts of land" without tittering. I blame Monty Python and immaturity. A great video, as usual.

[@deannasmith4443]

but da... i just want to sing!

[@Xondar11223344]

Hahaha! I made breast cupping gestures when he said that! "She's got huge . . . tracts of land!"

[@less_likely]

I often think of America, of Lady Liberty, and admire her huge... tracts if land.

[@susanhillwig5784]

I was reading about Oney Judge last week. One of the reasons she ran away -- other than, y'know, freedom -- was because she knew Martha Washington's granddaughter would be a cruel mistress. The Washingtons were truly confounded by the whole thing and thought someone had led Oney astray, so they sent agents after her under that pretense. When said agents found Oney, they were quickly convinced she ran away of her own free will and was now very happy as a free person, so they refused to bring her back.

[@scifience8297]

no statues, only abstract art

[@sweetpeabee4983]

@@seemysight only if the trees haven't been modified to not have female bits for "easier maintenance" lol. My pollen allergies are already bad enough!!

[@abdul-rahimdahman3300]

30:54 hold up, genuine question; how can the freedom of that one slave even be attributed to Madison if he sold him to another guy, who freed the slave 7 YEARS later? Even indirectly? So far as I'm concerned, sounds like Madison never had the intention to free the dude o.o

[@renegadecut9875]

Welcome to the point.

[@abdul-rahimdahman3300]

@@renegadecut9875 oof. Touché

[@johnryu2317]

Damn

[@torgosaves427]

We've been ruled by psychopathic businessmen since the beginning.

[@Garland41]

That last part with the Traditionalist reorienting the conversation is so god damn real.

[@lifewithoutfudge]

When I was in grade school in the 1990s, I went on a school field trip to Mount Vernon, George Washington's plantation home in Virginia. At one point, we were led through some of the old slave quarters on the premises, which were presented to us as being much nicer and more humane than most equivalent lodgings of the time; also with the fact that GW would actually pay and give time off to his slaves, essentially making them out to be more like employees. My whole life, I always kind of excused old George of his slave-owner status because of how this was presented to me when I was about 10-12 years old. I was aware of a lot of the broad strokes facts of this video before (especially pertaining to Tommy Jefferson), but I am thankful to be disabused of this "benevolent master" framing of George Washington. Yikes!

[@hitoshura2800]

Don't forget the most evil founding father, Jebediah Springfield

[@RumchugMusic]

I'd take a pirate over a slave owner any day. Pirates invented workers comp.

[@21irises]

Idk, he did try to rid of Washington

[@hermioneziggeraut7617]

The part about Madison deludedly thinking that it was a good idea to 'deprive' the world of trade with a single country - that this was a huge power move. As a Brit enduring Brexit I was like 'hey, that's like our shitty government!'

[@slavajuri]

You should’ve talked about Thomas Paine! He’s one of the few “Founding Fathers” who was actually ahead of his time and lived a (contextually) moral life. One of my favourite arguments against immortalizing goons like Jefferson is that other people in similar circumstances made much different choices in life. It also lends balance to the idea that people are people and should be judged as such, regardless of the time period they live in.

[@xDominic880x]

America needs more human beings with your level of introspection and historical rigour: Thank you for this video!

[@bertbaker7067]

Monuments to Confederates make as much sense as a monument to Benedict Arnold.

[@VoxTurbula]

a small but an important detail of this video france abolished slavery in the main land but not the colony, we totaly abolished slavery (including in the colony) with the first republic

[@jakec9522]

And that's why Thomas Paine is my favorite Founding Father.

[@randomneko9]

I feel like I learned so little in school. Every day I learn some new bit about our history that just destroys the myths. I think the problem I'm experiencing is that I need something good. All of the historical figures are going to have the whitewash cleaned off to reveal the ugly truth. I want to find something good and something real to believe in and aspire to.

[@kylewilliams8114]

Go look up congressman Cassius Clay. He was a hardcore abolitionist in the south way before the civil war!

[@Godzilla_64]

@@mattboy5296 I would have to agree with you. Its hard,if not difficult, to find one historical figure wo has certainly have skeletons in their closet. Even my most fond or fascinating figures I enjoy have some, such as Theodore Roosevelt or Robert Kennedy. I try to focus on the positives but remember the negatives as well, and try to judge them honestly. But that too may not be easy or enough. This line of thought can easily make or break one's faith in the country as a whole. However, I choose not to letit. Sure,the foundation was made far from the best intentions, but we can always move past them and build something better over them. This is much our country as it was there's, and we should be allowed to set its course for the future and beyond even if it was the vision of the founding fathers. Heck, they didn't even share the same vision or likely idea for how the nation would continue. So why should we allow that? We follow the footsteps of those long gone, with mind set and all when we could set our own path. Let us clean the rug of the blood that once stained it, make it new before laying it back down on a new pathforward to walk. This country is ours still, and we should feel able to set our own course for it as we see fit. Sorry I got ahead of myself there.

[@joanael-jaickandrade9681]

I wish every American watches this video. Great work!

[@uncomplicatedi]

"Racist policies lead to justificatons for racism whixh help propagate ignorance and hate." Such an important quote. I've always found it impossible to believe that *somehow* powerless people created racist institutions. Of course the powerful created those institutions to benefit themselves

[@ramentaco9179]

I just noticed something about the everyday language we use. When we talk about who built something, we always say that the person who HAD it built was the one who built it. Like “oh hey, that’s the bridge that was built by FDR,” we never mention the workers or in some cases slaves that built something.

[@kseniav586]

Thank you so much for this. I'm a history teacher in Russia and some of my colleagues have argued that removing such monuments is wrong, because they are part of history. When I asked if they would like to have kept Stalin and Lenin monuments for the same reason, well...they had no answer.

[@marionmetathink3234]

@Renegade Cut Excellent use of my time, you turn around key arguments masterfully. I really appreciate your work.

[@hakalakalaka0.963]

You said statues aren't history books, but a lot of history books in the US, especially in high school and earlier, do effectively the same thing as statues. Mythologizing the founding fathers and glossing right over all the hypocrisy and terrible stuff they did. I guess they assume people aren't ready to hear that yet or something, but the problem is a lot of people never end up hearing it.

[@danielramsey6141]

You know, after watching this video, I'm reminded of the Events from "BioShock Infinite" when your first introduced to Columbia, the Airbourne City, with its Religious/Cult-like behavior in glorifying the Founding Fathers and how they personify Elizabeth as Columbia...a Goddess to the people. Using it to justify all the terrible things they do to other people, all the while proclaiming that their Nationalism is a gift to the world. If funny, cause now I know that this right here isn't just fiction anymore. Its the truth. The revisionist try to separate all the misdeeds of America by proclaiming that isn't true. When in fact it was. The "King George Washington" bit was almost a Reality before the constitution. Its a Dark reality once you realize just who George Washington is, and giving him more power to assure any delusional behavior would been an absolute nightmare.

[@EmDub01]

I was JUST about to leave a comment about exactly this, since I replayed the game this month for the first time in years. In fact the game hit me way harder now than it did in 2013 because of, well, everything going one. But you’re spot on about how statues are used in Infinite to deify the founding fathers as well as other in-game characters like Comstock, and it is so surreal to see people today getting upset over statues while actual human beings are being killed and oppressed, because in the game, all of Columbia’s residents are racists and history revisionists, whereas the pro-statue Americans today are....oh. They’re the same.

[@optillian4182]

Some of the artwork in Coumbia also depicts Abraham Lincoln as a demon. Subtlety isn't their strong suit, I guess.

[@danielramsey6141]

@@EmDub01 Not surprised, but I'm glad that more of us are beginning to see the Web of Lies and Falsehood that's been fed to us for so Long! Honestly, this couldn't have happened at a better time. Cause now we get to see the Truth, as History will no longer be fed to us by the crooked.

[@Gemini_Samura1]

This has become one of my favorite channels. Thank you for the knowledge and insight.✌🏾✊🏾✌🏾

[@escritora84]

This is even more relevant in light of Hamilton being released, along with its popularity.

[@docpepperclassic]

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense The most American thing of all is questioning tradition and rejecting what never should have been in the first place. Progress, change, and making a 'more perfect' society are the first and most essential American values.

[@ecchidragon8038]

_"He became the first and only president to take up arms against his own citizens..."_ Ah - Those halcyon days when this was true. **Looks at Trump**

[@zenus0170]

Nathan Gale I thought he meant it literally like he as a person took up arms against his citizens (no matter how ridiculous this sounds in hindsight)

[@clargonaut6015]

"If the subject of the statue owned slaves, who's next, the Founding Fathers?" *Cough* *Cough* Thomas Paine *Cough* *Cough*

[@davidhoran7116]

Build a statue to John Brown and Malcom x, see if they care about history then.

[@zryiii]

Conservatives STILL hate John Brown with a passion, it's amazing

[@user-rq8xx8ir9t]

id be ok with one of malcolm x but only because he left that insane cult the nation of islam

[@Below_Left]

My thought is that racism is not always constructed by those with power. Like everything of importance in society: religion, culture, political values, bigotry does typically originate from those who wield power but it becomes its own cultural force that exists outside of power structures and feeds into them. There is essentially a constant dialog between those who wield power, and the cultural forces that influence those who wield power. They don't operate in a vacuum purely defined by rational (if cruel and sociopathic) self-interest. It's a wag-the-dog effect. A tool created by the powerful can easily take on a life of its own and become the driving force, essentially become a part of the "self-interest" that goes beyond the economic. Racism becomes the end rather than the means to the end. As can be said about a lot of Trump's policies, "the cruelty is the point," and that should be taken into account when looking at US history, though I broadly agree with the video's points.

[@SabrinaRina]

Ugh, I was just thinking back last week how we watched a movie about Jefferson that painted him and Hemmings as this tragic love story. I grew up in a majority black school system, almost went to Jefferson High School where that statue was torn down at the beginning. It wasn't even a social studies/history class if I recall.

[@gavinsnow9774]

There is a Columbus statue near my house that I often drive by, people have put clown noses and stuff on it in the past but I lust for the day it is gone.

[@zperez6177]

Traditionalists be reorienting more than a compass in the Bermuda Triangle

[@vennsync8480]

I remember the cherry tree story being taught in my school as if it were fact. There's so much about our own history none of us know.

[@stevbec5342]

I needed this more than I thought I did. Why wasn’t KZbin like this when I was in school still?

[@Fhalei]

This is one of the best essays on this entire channel! And that's impressive considering the consistently excellent quality content that's posted here.

[@pocketzed3481]

Your videos don't get enough attention, my dude. I finally checked them out and now I'm watching all of them. I keep remembering phrases and analogies from these videos because the writing is so sharp and precise.

[@niteowl9491]

This feels SUPER relevant after having seen Hamilton for the first time recently. I thought I wouldn't like it that much or that it was over-hyped, but boy, it was worse than I could have imagined. The whole time I kept thinking, "Wait am I supposed to care about this guy? The one who cheated on his wife with her sister and another woman, and later publicly admitted to it all without regard for the women's reputations? Who encourages his son to casually duel some guy over HIS honor? WHAT." As a friend put it, "Its like watching a sympathetic portrayal of Hitler's life, starring an all Jewish cast." Why the fuck are we singing about the damn founding fathers, and now of all times? The musical honestly feels like perfect neo-lib bait -- superficially lefty and bringing that fun hippity hop vibe whites crave cuz it feels "new" to them, but without all that "boo slavery" and white guilt stuff.

[@monetcache]

the only thing that upsets me about tearing racist statues is that I thought that was going to be like a victory lap thing we did after reparations had been paid, poor communities had been funded, the police have been abolished, and corporate oligarchs have been toppled

[@Dancingonthesun]

I love feeling like I've been lied to. Thank you for such an enlightening video essay.

[@batlash1]

Love from the formerly named state of Rhode island and the providence plantation. We now are just officially RHODE ISLAND . I am so happy about a small name change that only few people know about

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

Wow

[@rahcollier7006]

I remember the first time I played Bioshock Infinite and seeing the people praying to the founding fathers and thinking it was hilarious and apt. Still holds true, it's just also a lot more chilling for me than it was in 2013.

[@HGZMO]

Beware of the man who builds monuments to himself - JOHN HERMAN

[@RT-dk7yv]

the history lesson we so badly need right now.

[@bornjusticerule5764]

Another awesome thorough production, thanks for sharing.

[@RaspWillow]

Having now learned a bit more about Washington, and seeing him as a businessman who built an empire from a relatively small but no less helpful inheritance, I've come to realize that Donald Trump is more presidential than I'd previously considered.