Renovating an old speaker crossover

[@timmotel5804]

1/26/2024: Just found your channel and subscribed. Informative and easy to follow. I have a pair of 31 year old Technics 2-way speakers. 10" woofers and tweeter. They are still in use with a Kenwood KR-6400 Receiver that is about 31 years old also. Sounds very good. Best Regards

[@bertloan]

It would be great if you included links to parts sources or to the videos you recommend.

[@markolson7997]

Awesome, Kent! This is just what I was hoping to find. I'm a newbie looking to bring my dead Monitor Audio 5i's back to life. Not so many resources like this. Thanks for this very important basic info.

[@AudioTalk]

Thank you very much Mark

[@christofferhedman8178]

I just found your channel and my god I love it. How you explain things is just perfect. Tack så mycket!

[@AudioTalk]

Thank you so much Christoffer

[@briancampbell7712]

good video👍🏼... I have a pair of Spendor S 100 and changed out the capacitors… I tried changing with Mundorf capacitors but then ended up switching back to original new capacitors...I was let down by the Mundorf, thinking they would be better...I have added Wima 1.0 uf next to the new Bennics on the LF...if they are placed in certain positions on the crossover, the sound can be better...I'm sure you know about this...

[@alexandrefernandes6286]

One should always consider that electrolytic capacitors have ESR. So I think replacing it with a polypropylene cap is great but a resistor must be added to compensate the ESR. Otherwise the sound pressure level will be all wrong and the speaker will sound unbalanced.

[@AudioTalk]

a really good point Alexandre! If the electrolytic sits in the highpass and particularly higher Xover frequencies 2nd order it would need compensation from a resistor. Excellent point!

[@manFromPeterborough]

I had 2.2uF caps with four ohm ESR, sounded muddy, 2.7uF poly caps brought the speakers alive. Being a 6 ohm speaker, I think a 3.3 or four uF would sound less tinggy

[@alexandrefernandes6286]

@@manFromPeterborough two distinct things. Changing the capacity will change the frequency of the crossover network at which signal will pass or not. The resistance will affect the intensity of the signal and the sound pressure level you get out of that speaker at that frequency.

[@6StringPassion.]

What value resistor?

[@alexandrefernandes6286]

@@6StringPassion. I measured the ESR for each of the capacitors that I had and the new polypropylene ones. I added the difference between the two. As a rule of thumb polyprop caps sound awesome on the tweeters and midrange and are really worth it, if you can't measure ESR I would put 1ohm resistor on the tweeters and 0.7ohm on the mid range. Otherwise they will get in your ears too much and you won't bear listening to the speakers.

[@yrulooknatme]

glad I found your videos. When I did hvac work I had a freind who owned an electric supply co. I'de always show up with the dumbest questions but knowing I was learning he was so patient with me to the point were he'd break away from a big order to take equipment I bought in and test .lol ,sometimes we'd have wires shoved into outlet receptacles...He is a great guy. anyway my main takeaway fro this video was getting audio grade caps. I have an old DCMT timePiece speaker that needs a cap. those litle bookshelve speakers sound fantastic. One is good it has 2 orange mylar caps, the bad one has an orange cap and an electrolytic. I'm sure the electrolytic is at fault.

[@johncoscia5258]

Thanks for asking me to ask . What if anything should you do to said crossover if you replace a tweeter and woofer in a3 way, HD66 Marantz box? The only spec that's similar is 8 ohm and hole size, they don't sound as good as Mordant 2ways i replaced tweeter and woofer with great results . Checked the two film caps and resistor , and also the 2two pots on the front are now good . Crossover points not matching ?? And sensitivity different , sorry . Thanks .

[@VintageGearMan]

Maybe you can help me if you do not mind. I have an ok pair of JBL62 speakers with the Titanium laminate tweeters in them. They are a bit too bright for me. There is pair 4uf 100v axial caps in the crossovers. What value could I use to tame the tweeters down just a little? There are also 2 orange drop looking I guess caps on the board to. Sorry I do not not know their values just yet or their purpose on the crossover. As I understand several models of vintage JBL book shelve speakers with these titanium tweeters have a tendency to be to bright. Thanks ahead of time.

[@donalddeorio2237]

Parts express, go with a poly-cap of film it will improve the sound

[@AudioTalk]

You will get much further for your money if you analyze where it's important, that's also why all good manufactures do it. If you want to raise the bar to what I am showing, you just use the same information and move all caps up one level, but to make them all the same type is a waste of money.

[@brendanryan6363]

No, best to replace like with like. Esr compensation is calculated into the circuits and will negatively impact the sound if a low esr film cap for example is substituted for an electrolytic.

[@StebanGhorghor]

Kent! Great video! I was wondering if you can give me some advice improving the LF of My KEF speakers! I need a little more low!

[@AudioTalk]

With the crossover you can only dampen midrange or tweeter to make the woofer stand out more. However if the crossover point is higher than 250Hz to the woofer it probably wont have this effect, because you likely are interested in area under 100Hz. And that area is the cooperation between box and woofer, so you cant do much about that other than getting a subwoofer.

[@crossoverchef]

70s-90s pinnacle of audio

[@letsfixsomethingathome8536]

Ken, Staring at a pair of 40O watt 2 channel crossovers from Arena15 soeakers with popped VR1 resisters, they are no longer available as boards, but wondering if they are thermistors. From pictures, they apoear as blue disks, any suggestions on replacements?

[@charlenelu6995]

very helpful information about speaker capacitors.

[@angiewelch7932]

Im impressed by your knowledge. I'm not impressed with my d9 cerwin vegas can you help me with the way to restore my crossovers.i have had them for many years played through my pioneer sx 1050. Thank you. Larry.

[@dmahmedhunterali840]

I have pioneer private pro sx 730 a couple of speaker but it have a problem on the high volume or high trible the tweeters automatically turn off for 10 sec after 10sec it again work. What should I do plz tell me should I replace crossover capacitor?

[@eksine]

thank you for the clear explanation for the basics!

[@BigBoy74X]

Hey Kent one quick question. I got 2 jbl prx 525 loud speakers that are self powered rated at 1300 watts peak. Long story short on both PAs both amps are gone. I wanted to know if i do an amp delete and run a high quality audio crossover for the Loudspeakers can i get away with that?

[@dynaudiofocus]

Really love these videos, ive just built a 3 way horn speaker system, at the stage now of designing a crossover... Where is the best place to start

[@AudioTalk]

Thank you so much! If the voice coils of the 3 drivers are at the same vertical axis at the throat of the horn you have a chance to get a good image with a passive filter. But if only the mouth the horns is aligned due to aesthetics, you got to go active with a DSP because of the phase difference. Another thing with horns is peaks and troughs in the response due to the horns where a DSP make it linear. But I made this little program 5 years ago with the most basic and most used types of passive crossovers and its here as a free download for windows bekent.dk/blog/speakercalc-gratis-hoejtaler-beregnings-program/ but there is a lot of good calculators out there.

[@dynaudiofocus]

@@AudioTalk thank you so much i appreciate it

[@raazor2]

I have a pair of Radio Shack Nova 8B speakers that I bought around 1976. In one of the speakers, neither the midrange or tweeter work. The woofer does work. I'm thinking it might be the crossover. Is there a way to test the crossover before just replacing the capacitors? Thanks!

[@AudioTalk]

The midrange you could test full-range directly connected to the amp. If its both mid and tweeter could just be a wire that got disconnected

[@patrickmathews645]

Kent, i am building a 2 way speaker with a horn and 2 woofers. The speakers are available at parts express. Please let me know if you can help design a high quality crossover? Thanks, Patrick

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Is it OK to replace electrolytic caps with film capacitors of the same value? The problem is that elecrolytic capacitors do drop their capacity with increase in signal frequiency but most of the film caps have the same capacitance at any audio frequency. So the filter output response with a film cap will be different than it was designed to be with the original electrolytic cap.

[@justinmanny86]

I recently acquired a pair of martin logan ESL electromotion speakers and for some reason, the volume output is way lower and muddy sounding compared to my other speakers. Martin logan support recommended I replace the internal power supply, so I just swapped them out and the volume is still really low. Do you think it's a crossover issue?

[@AudioTalk]

it doesnt sound like a crossover problem to me, I can see online its a electrostatic speaker with a dynamic woofer at the bottom. If the 2 drivers are opposite in phase, it will result in muddy and lower levels, because they are cancelling out. But I dont know your speaker at all, this is just a shot from the hip

[@justinmanny86]

@@AudioTalk Im going to bring that up to the ML tech support, thank you!

[@d.s.w7779]

Film capacitors have long leads . can the be trimmed? And do they get wired from one end opposed to the other?

[@AudioTalk]

No problem in trimming the leads and they are bipolar so there is no particular direction in how they are mounted in the circuit

[@jbenz9348]

What is your opinion of using a high quality low UF bypass cap at the tweeter? Im using Mundorf M-Cap Supreme for mids and tweeter. I’m working on upgrading a set of Heresy ii’s. Also would a 16 gauge copper foil inductor be any better than a 14 gauge air core inductor at the tweeter as well. I would appreciate your advice, your videos are very informative.

[@AudioTalk]

Thank you, and yes a small bypass cap parallel to the original ones will likely create better highs, but replacing them with a better cap will be better but of course also more money. But I would place more money on the cap and skip the upgrade on the inductor. The cap has far more impact on the sound being in series, where the coil is mainly just the electrical load it has effect on by sitting in parallel. I am not saying it has no effect, but its far less and knowing klipsch getting a soft sounding cap on could be a large improvement. I would recommend to check out humble made hifi`s article on caps, and look for the Alumen Zcap fra Jantzen, that will calm and clear the highs, Mundorf is good stuff but maybe not bang for the buck.

[@jbenz9348]

@@AudioTalk Thanks for taking the time to reply. I already have the caps but I am yet to do the rebuild. I am still a little confused how to wire these since I will be removing these from their boards. I have Mundorf Supremes for the mids and tweeters and intertechnik audyn Q4 for the low pass filter woofer cap.I also bought 16 gauge copper foil inductors for the tweeter. I was wondering if should have went with a bigger inductor, although I feel that they are an upgrade in general. I left the low pass inductor alone due to reading that I could potentially makes Things worse. I will be doing a stage two upgrade soon, I will be putting in better quality autotransformers and was considering putting in bypass caps and a 12 gauge air core at the woofer, if that won’t throw off the sound. Any advice is appreciated.

[@TheKankesh]

Hello sir two years back u told us placing multi speaker setup in series or parallel. Sir I would like to have this setup in my onkyo avr as it has only two channel for atmos. Instead is 2 speakers I would like to have 4 speakers on both channels. Means two speakers on each. Sir my question is u told us about ohms. Will u please tell about watts calculation also. I mean how to divide it per speaker or what so ever formula. Please tell. Thank you

[@AudioTalk]

Between the choice of parallel and series depends on your speaker impedance and the amplifiers range of allowed impedance loads. If your amp can do 4 ohms loads, you can parallel 2 speakers of 8 ohms to each channel, but if they are 4 or 6 ohms speakers you will need to connect in series. But have you thought of the timing by having 2 speakers on 1 channel in surround, if not careful you could compromise the Atmos effekt unless they are really close.

[@julioduarte7021]

Hello míster Kent larsen. Puede diseñar crossover para sonido atmos para parlante canal central

[@AudioTalk]

Atmos is in your surround receiver and not a factor in the speaker, so your center speaker is the same regardless of doing Atmos or not, is just that you need more speakers to create Atmos

[@craigwheaton2506]

Great stuff Kent, would a cap breaking down cause my mid and bass drivers on one speaker from cutting in when the other side does?

[@AudioTalk]

Hi Craig, I am sorry I dont understand the question. Is there way to rephrase the question or maybe more explanation to what you are experiencing?

[@craigwheaton2506]

@@AudioTalk Hi Kent, sorry for the initial explanation, i will try again. I have a set of Monitor Audio Radius 270 speakers, absolutely gorgeous speakers. i noticed a while back on one speaker (the RH) the sound was cutting off on the mid and bass driver at lower volume while the LH one worked perfectly, i swapped them over to rule out the amp, problem followed speaker. I opened the speaker up looking for a loose connection etc. Everything was nice and secure, so in the hunt for the problem wondered if the crossover was the issue hence the hunt on KZbin and coming across your fantastic resource (many thanks) Further investigation reveal if the mid and bass are not working on the RH speaker as the LH is a little bump on the driver surround or turning the volume slightly up gets it working again. Sorry for the novel, any help would be greatly appreciated. Kindest regards Craig. PS your video has inspired me to update the components on the speaker .

[@AudioTalk]

@@craigwheaton2506 thank you very much for that, and sure if there is an electrolytic capacitor in particular in the lowpass or bandpass, and perhaps is dried out could cause added resistance. Other than that if its a resistor issue from some kind of correction filter they will typically show discoloration from heat, same with inductors will typically physically show. Swapping drivers between the 2 speakers is a great way to eliminate them as the culprit.

[@craigwheaton2506]

@@AudioTalk Thank you so much Kent.

[@craigwheaton2506]

@@AudioTalk Hi Kent, bit of an update, pulled the 4 bass drivers out and Xovers resoldered the connections all components looked fine, test for resistance across the speakers individually with my fluke meter all but 1 are open circuit..there’s my problem I suspect

[@vinylthoughts5201]

Hi Ken, I have a pair of Infinity Reference Two speakers that i believe have faulty capacitors...at least after watching this video that is hat I'm guessing, the highs are almost non existent in the sound...I was wondering what is the best place to purchase upgraded parts to do this project...and also, any advice or tips for a newbie like myself?

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

I know this is a little late, but for anyone else with the same question... Parts Express is a good place to start your search for audio parts. One important point is, replace old parts with as close to the exact same value parts as possible. If your crossover had electrolytic capacitors, replace it with electrolytic capacitors. If they were 220uf, replace with 220 uf. No higher no lower. You can fudge a *little* on voltage capacity - AS LONG AS THE NEW COMPONENT IS HIGHER - but again, you want to keep it as close as possible. If the caps were 17v you can use 19 or 21v... but going with 50v caps will not do you any good at all. Some people say to increase the values this way or that, or use this type of capacitor instead... NO; all those changes will alter the sound and there's about a 90% chance it will be for the worse. The original engineers knew what they were doing, don't think that you (or I, or anyone on the internet) knows better.

[@larrypoling3304]

Looking to update infinity RS III crossover any advice?

[@AudioTalk]

I dont have anything specific to that model, the advice in the video goes for anything out there

[@eastkilbride1]

Hi, interesting video and it got me to thinking about my speakers. I have a pair of floor-standing 1970 PSB Passif 1 speakers (tweeter, mid, bass), the terminals at the back are getting cracked with age and the entire crossover unit is glued to the terminal panel. So how easy is it to change the capacitors, I know how to solder fairly well? And is it recommended to take the entire crossover out of the speaker and mount it in an external box? I have to replace the terminal panel anyway as the old one is too fragile to reattach into the speaker. Thanks for any suggestions you have.

[@Russell_and_Rosko]

I’ve wanted to learn crossover design for a long time

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

Try Ray Alden's book Speaker Design 201. Its a good start Hope you're good with basic algebra though.

[@Russell_and_Rosko]

Thanks for the reference! I've been relying on dsp but I'd like to build passive filters sometime in the future.

[@shalomkravmaga]

Hi Kent. Do you know what might cause a speaker to drop in volume? I have an old pair of PSB 800 speakers, and one of them is much quieter than the other. I tested the amplifier on a different pair of speakers, and it wasn't an amp problem.

[@krjohnson29]

Sounds like the resistance increased somewhere in the circuit? If it's roughly similar volume at low frequencies, but lower volume on the highs then I would look for a problem in the tweeter portion of the crossover circuit. If it's similar volume at the highs but lower in the lows, look at the woofer portion. If it's lower at all frequencies then look at the binding posts or your cable or amp or some other portion of the rig that carries the full range. I should also say, it could be your room. If you haven't already done, swap their position in the room and see if the volume continues to drop from the same side. If it does, it's due to your room geometry and you'll just have to adjust the balance. My room has some weird geometry and the right speaker is always about 1 dB quieter than the left 🤷.

[@etiennemamo2823]

Hello Ken Thanks for the interesting video that you make! I am trying to work on my kef q70s crossover and I am deciding to make the bottom a little bit lower, still need a new caps! Thay go down to 45hz and try for 35hz :/ what do you think?

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

Changing the caps will not change how low your speakers are capable of going, or how close you may be to one of their resonant frequencies. Chamge out components with parts matching the OEM specs. The original engineers knew what they were doing, and they did what they did for a reason.

[@Pickle312]

I have an old set of Technics (circa late 80s) 3 way speakers. One of the speakers no longer sends signal to the tweeter or mid (only large woofer works) I swapped the tweeter from the “bad” speaker to the “good” one and the tweeter works fine. Would this be evidence of a bad capacitor or bad resistor for my tweeter and mid? Otherwords will a bad capacitor prevent signal from getting to the tweeter and mid completely when it fails? Thank you for the video!

[@AudioTalk]

Do you have biwiring terminals? if you do I will check if those are loose.

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

If you swap components and the problem follows the component, then the problem is usually with the component. can you put an Ohms meter across the speaker leads (disconnected from the crossover, of course) If you get infinite resistance, or zero resistance, then the coil has either blown open or shorted. Either way, replace the speaker. (I know this checks resistance, not impedance, but it is just a quick check to see it the coil is any good, not an electronics class)

[@ryant75]

Do you suggest updating 1983 Cerwin Vega D-7 crossovers? They still sound pretty good. I'm to chicken to tinker with them 😐

[@AudioTalk]

Replacing the capacitors in that filter is highly recommended, with that many years and likely spanking the electrolytic acid has probably dried out.

[@ryant75]

Thank you I appreciate it. Yeah man they are probably hollowed out

[@johnnycee5179]

How do I find out what specific capacitors I should get to replace the ones in my old CS-D 7001 Pioneer floor speakers?

[@AudioTalk]

To replace them you should read the value of the old one and replace to the same value uF and perhaps upgrade the quality

[@johnnycee5179]

@@AudioTalk Then taking the old ones out and installing the new is another subject. I have a soldering iron but it doesn't have a fine tip for electrical replacement use. How are you at replacing dome covers? The other speaker had the dome (dust cover) on the woofer, it fell off when he removed speaker cover, it was almost off when I gave it to him, so he reglued it. The other speaker that works fine is missing the dome on the woofer. I need to figure out what size dome I need to get and glue it on with moyan (special rubber cement for speaker use). Would you be able to share information on measurements for that dome replacement?

[@mzukwana1]

I have my Paradigm monitor crossover burned-out. But I opened and checked it out it's actually one of the conductor. Is it possible to fix that?

[@AudioTalk]

Inductors are the spools of wire and the plastic looking things are capacitors and lastly the ceramic things are resistors, but none of them can be repaired only replaced, and to replace you will need to know there value. For inductors value in mH, capacitors value in uF and resistors in ohm.

[@Rocker6969]

hello, i have paradigm studio monitors (90's 3 way, 3 sets speaker binding posts, 93lbs each) speakers that i want to upgrade the crossover. its all attached to the board that has the binding posts on it as well. i can see the crossover when i remove the 2nd from the bottom woofer but really have no idea how to accurately read the parts or determine what i should actually replace. i tried to find info on the crossover but no such luck. any help ?

[@AudioTalk]

Unfortunately, that question is very specific to Paradigm and perhaps even specific to that model. So my advice is to follow what I am suggesting in the video and identify electrolytic capacitors and upgrade to MKP or MKT capacitors. Then follow the wires from the tweeter and try out some good capacitors for those you find there. Good example would be Jantzen superior Zcaps that they sell at PE, and the resistors to Jantzen superes.

[@Rocker6969]

@@AudioTalk ok sounds good ty.

[@linandy1]

Thanks Ken !

[@johnsweda2999]

But you should have a resistor in line to the film capacitor if replacing the electrolytics because they have a lower resistance then electrolytics

[@wessandlin8056]

Hi, I have a set of pioneer floor speakers they don’t seem to have a crossover just directly wired to each other and a capacitor on one of the tweeters would it be safe to install a crossover to get better sound?

[@AudioTalk]

It depends a lot on what the response is on each speaker driver. If its a 2 way speaker (woofer+tweeter) and the speaker drivers are really high quality its possible to pull of such a simple design and have amazing quality that would be compromised. Typically this kind of setup will not be found under a few grand. Do you have a model name and I will look at it?

[@wessandlin8056]

@@AudioTalk pioneer CS-G305

[@AudioTalk]

@@wessandlin8056 there is a very good chance distortion will be lowered with a crossover here, but its important the crossover is matched to the impedance of each speaker driver or else it wont work right. So a 8 ohm crossover will only work with 8 ohm speaker drivers.

[@wessandlin8056]

@@AudioTalk should I try one of those cheap crossovers from eBay?

[@AudioTalk]

@@wessandlin8056 I dont know whats avaiable there, but its important that the impedance (ohms) its design for is the same as the speaker drivers or else there will be a mismatch.

[@MrNicknayme]

Thanks

[@roybatty-]

How do you feel about upgrading the crossover components on new speakers?

[@AudioTalk]

There is certainly speakers that gets produced where a better series capacitor or resistor can lift the tweeter performance

[@roybatty-]

@@AudioTalk So not a huge difference. Maybe a little sparkle.....

[@AudioTalk]

@@roybatty- impossible to generalize unfortunately, and the differences can also be subjective. Many have an experience that its a big lift.

[@edwardgiovannelli5191]

Changing from electrolytic to polypropylene will change the crossover point and roll off of the crossover. THIS WILL NOT ALWAYS BE AN IMPROVEMENT. just because one component is more expensive than another doesn't mean it will give better sound. If you switch types or values of your caps, be prepared to change them back to do an honest A/B comparison. I'm sure a Mercedes Benz alternator is better than the one in my Chevy, but that doesn't mean I can drop it in my engine and magically expect better electricity!

[@AudioTalk]

The series capacitor to the tweeter will have a even greater improvement if a series resistor is inserted at the same value as the ESR as the old cap, preferable wirewound. With that said an electrolytic cap has no place in that position and still they can be found in vintage speakers, and they hysteresis introduce so much distortion that it supersedes the change in the Xover point. ESR is not particularly high with larger caps, so that issue is a diminishing issue as you go down the frequency band.

[@muhammadali4154]

Sir i have pioneer private pro sx 730 a couple of speaker on high volume both tweeters automatic turnoff for 10 to 15 sec after 10 to 15 sec they again work . What should I do?