REPAIR: permobil joystick centering errors

is your joystick throwing an error right when it's powered up? lets take a look at a potential fix for the problem! Error codes JSM 2F01, 080B, etc.. this problem doesn't only happen on permobil chairs - anything with an R-Net control system can potentially develop the same issue! models CJSM2, and the PJSM are the 2 models we take apart today.
Let's check it out!
video from a few years ago - - - • VLOG 297: whats inside...
0:00 intro
1:35 disclaimer
3:50 removal from chair
7:10 disassembly
20:46 larger joystick
27:20 final thoughts
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[@TotallyNormal-]

FYI - i've heard from a couple people now - they took apart the joystick and didn't really find any obvious issues - BUT when putting everything back together, it suddenly started working again! ...something else seems to be going on here in addition to my past findings! and apparently unhooking everything and re-connecting it solves the issue! WEIRD!

[@aleksejgrinevics2197]

Hello friend! Please help me solve the problem. I have a Permobil Trax. When driving, the control disappears and shows a potentiometer error on the remote control. Advise how to solve the problem ???

[@mikeburke5087]

@@aleksejgrinevics2197 my invacare m91 controller turns right when I push left and left when I push right

[@GilbertAhrens]

GREAT video! We had JSM errors 0500 and 0700, etc., with no repair solutions to be found anywhere. Following the steps here (disconnecting and reconnecting the wires) did the trick. There was nothing evidently wrong or broken, but everything worked fine when reassembled. Certainly could not have navigated joystick disassembly without this GREAT video. Many Thanks!!!

[@tweaked53]

Thanks so much for this video! You saved me a lot of trouble and $$. Sure enough it was the ribbon cable connector to the joystick, this time it was at the circuit board and not the joystick itself that was loose. You would think, given the amount of bouncing and vibration likely with a chair well-used, that they would use a clip connector instead of just a friction fit. (So much for foresight...). My daughter's chair is a 10 year old C400 with the older style joystick, your advice and procedural advice was invaluable! Thanks again!

[@xngbobby]

Thanks for sharing this Dan! This video will no doubt help someone get going! Keep up the great content!

[@davidcrumley3421]

Learning a lot from your videos. Really appreciate all the work you do.

[@tmanj1277]

Hey man I just wanted to say thanks for this channel for all your useful information just had the joystick centering issue with error code 00e0! Can't do these repairs myself unfortunately but when I find someone who is willing to help your information is greatly appreciated thanks!

[@richardliptak1538]

I followed your directions and It worked for me . Thank You

[@hamzauzan3338]

Excellent lerning video thanks Dan

[@halever2626]

Thank you so much brother!

[@nvektus]

great instructional video dan! fyi, i have a couple of those large screen ones and both have unplug-able cables.

[@TotallyNormal-]

kinda crazy how many versions of the 'same thing' are out there.. thanks for letting me know! :^)

[@steveandjenny149]

Good video Dan. I have a spare joystick now that they replaced mine. All that is wrong with it is the charge port terminals are burnt.

[@howiroll740]

What I have found to cause the joystick ribbon cable to disconnect from the bottom of the joystick is when I let the chair arm fall down foward to a sudden stop. This can be especially true if the joystick hits a hard surface like a table or workbench from a fully upright position. A small spot of hotmelt glue on the side of the connector has been sufficient to prevent anymore disconnects. Also tightening the arm pivot bolt so the arm won't free-fall can help prevent this problem.

[@user-pd9fv8dg6v]

Great video, and the instructions were easy to follow. It didn’t take care of my problem, I think mine is due to the chair getting rained on. He got stuck in digging ground, and they only option at the time was to get him out of the chair. I wasn’t here to help.

[@omarcharife6167]

I really enjoyed your video. My Permobil joystick is the same as in this video. The rubber bellows has pulled out from the plastic housing and you can see part of the gimbal. Any suggestions to push it back?

[@freemindsparagliding]

Hi, the 0808 Mid Reference Joystick Error is mostly related to a bad crimping of the connector on the ribbon cable. The centering error pops up when you move joystick while startup. JSM/CJSM2 tries to calibrate X/Y and 0-position at startup which is why you get a centering error then. Nice videos you do💪👍

[@basook6116]

very informative

[@Whipster-Old]

Hey man. My girl needed a chair so we got her a little used power chair. A week later it's got a dead joystick. User error, right? Anyways, you've helped me start a teardown, so much appreciated.

[@jamesdrake2378]

nice job thank you

[@frankdiaz.salsas]

The newer model big screen 3.5 joysticks have the plug in cord on the back. I had a 2019 model and it was not removable cord but the 2021 is removable.

[@leglessinoz]

I've got the bigger one on my 2021 M5 and its cable is not removable.

[@Quad12Walk]

Hey, Dan. Do you know how to bypass tilt actuator from Quantum Q6 Edge Stretto? It's broken and the chair is not drivable. TIA.

[@TotallyNormal-]

i JUST got a stretto today actually!! once i get the batteries in it ill see what i can figure out on it. the Qlogic 3 control systems are a bit odd at times... but im hoping its possible without a programmer to at least get it going!

[@Quad12Walk]

@Totally Normal Thank you & look forward to your next video.

[@prasannakolar3833]

Hello, Great video.. Thanks .. I have a Permobil C300. I dont see the error when I power on the system. Note: Mine has an elevator and movable seat(tilt, etc) I tried the joystick when it was in the seat adjustment mode and it works the elevator to move the seat up and down. However, when I change the mode to mobility, I see an error on the lcd that shows the joystick kind of pulled back. Would this be a joystick centering error? Thanks in advance.

[@edwardthomas987]

I got a universal controller for a jazzy select the plugs are different is there a video showing how to wire universal controller to a jazzy select

[@music4138]

A small metal piece fell out of my control it square with two groves on the ends really flat have no idea where it goes I have the small one you where working on

[@austin030703]

Do you have any video on how to fix flashing error code 8 on vr2 system? I have a jazzy 600 which i am trying to fix. It is in fairy new condition and got it second hand. I have so far tried removing the controller and made sure all wirings are connected properly.

[@TotallyNormal-]

ill try and get that service manual posted on the website.. for now ya should be able to search google for "dynamic controls error codes" or "wheelchair flash codes" ive seen the manuals around the internet.. i'll work on getting them posted to the website when i get back in town :^)

[@austin030703]

@@TotallyNormal- i got this one www.pitlarson.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/PG-Drives-VR2-Technical-Manual_SK77898-04.pdf

[@austin030703]

I have checked all wiring and taken apart the joystick down to circuit board, checked continuity on all the wires from joystick to connector and still i am getting the same error. I believe i have to replace the joystick and maybe even the power controller. Gonna see if i can find another used wheelchair with same vr2 units as a donor. Buying those parts new is so expensive.

[@JordanLoweElevaToursCanada]

Cool! Also what colour did you get your F3 in?

[@TotallyNormal-]

black on black - i can always change it later :^)

[@user-ez8ci3tb1j]

Hi my name is Justin and I have a 2019 permobil powered wheel chair with a standard joy stick not like your I have been getting stranded. Lately in my chair how do I know what could be causing the issue can you please make a video on solving the issue

[@leglessinoz]

Adjustable wrench in Australia is called a "shifting spanner" or a "shifter".

[@djsmurf127]

great video man ! but I have a question. I have chin control, wellto be specific I think it's called a micro joystick? anyway whenever I drive , tilt, recline, whatever. my center is off. if I want to go forward or tilt etc. it i push north it goes northeast. is this a hardware issue or can a programmer straighten my joystick? I know you don't have a micro joystick but maybe you would know.

[@TotallyNormal-]

im pretty sure on those, they can be calibrated to any direction being 'forward' not sure how to actually perform the calibration on a micro.. but i'd think that just needs to be done - and hopefully fixes it up!

[@williamhartman551]

I've had the "JSM Joystick error" popping up frequently at my screen. After calibrating the joystick the error won't show up anymore for now

[@ilhanfatih9749]

Hey guys does anyone know how to fix a Pm bad settings 8180 code? I can't use my chair and this displays on the screen

[@cal30m1]

Have you ever had a problem with the charger being very difficult to unplug as well as the metal part being very hot? (Same Permobil controls)

[@TotallyNormal-]

i just got off the phone with someone on the inside - turns out the chargers themselves were having an issue with the connectors - and generating a lot of heat. the best thing to do in this situation is to contact permobil tech DIRECTLY - as a few of the DME providers weren't aware of the issue, or how to fix it. if your charge port is difficult to unplug, and things are getting hot - the current resolution is to replace the joystick itself, AND get one of the updated chargers. they made some changes a couple months ago that resolved the issue. permobil's phone number is 800-736-0925 - ask for tech support, and let them know that your charging port, and cable are getting really hot. they'll be able to contact your DME and get things all fixed up :^)

[@cal30m1]

@@TotallyNormal- thanks a lot bro. Yeah it was so hot once it felt like grabbing the sides of the old cigarette lighters in a car! I’m gonna call the service man Monday.

[@alexbrown7786]

My joystick cap came off and my dog decided to chew it up, I took the cap off an old stick and put it on also decided to stick it on. I held it down tight with tape. Since then I get the JSM Bad cable 7F00 but my chair still works. Do you think I screwed up big time? BTW. control diagnostic said cable 32 error

[@TotallyNormal-]

moving the joystick around and replacing things could have flexed the wires a bit - and if the cable was already weak, that could have pushed it over the edge.. black hot glue works well for holding the joystick knobs on though! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqKzZYOtaKeYrZI and this guy sells a lot of customizable replacements in any color for great prices! www.whiteravenmobility.com/

[@alexbrown7786]

@@TotallyNormal- This afternoon it has not given that warning anymore.. also it was only sending it shortly after I stopped moving. Thanks for your reply.

[@jbelhamel0702]

i have a 0808 ERROR code, it reffers to a joystick error, MID REFERENCE ERROR, what should i do ?

[@music4138]

A small metal piece fell out of my control it square with two groves on the ends really flat

[@denissechavarria1971]

Hi! My Permobil is showing a message that says dual joystick error 1202... do you have an idea of what can be happening?

[@TotallyNormal-]

that error usually refers to the gimbal control itself - and means something is wrong electronically with the position sensor.. does it happen constantly, or just sometimes?

[@denissechavarria1971]

@@TotallyNormal- it happens after 4 or 5 minutes after I turn the chair on...

[@serkan23table]

hello, i have permobil m400. When I close my chair, the lights on the little remote stay on all the time. How can I fix?

[@TotallyNormal-]

if it happens a lot, its caused by a firmware issue inside the seating controller (ICS Module) - requires re-flashing or replacement by a dealer to fix if it doesn't happen very often its not too much of an issue

[@serkan23table]

@@TotallyNormal- thanks for your answer. I have had the electric chair for 1 month. This problem had happened a few times before and it fixed itself after turning it off and on a few times, but since yesterday the lights stay on. Permobil does not have an authorized dealer or service in Turkey. I would be glad if you help me.

[@norwegianvodka3292]

Hi i have just ordered a permobil f3 Will i Get the large joystick or the one with the smaller screen i hope i Get the bigger screen or is it random wich you Get?

[@TotallyNormal-]

permobil doesnt use the larger version (like in this video) in the USA... BUT you can buy one on ebay, and jam it on there later if ya want!

[@norwegianvodka3292]

@@TotallyNormal- but i live in europe tho and my friend has an f3 with the big display? Is it difrent in europe?

[@TotallyNormal-]

im not 100% sure how they work in other countries.. BUT the nice thing with R-net is ya can swap on other parts later :^)

[@norwegianvodka3292]

@@TotallyNormal- wich is better tho?

[@norwegianvodka3292]

@@TotallyNormal- wich one is better the larger or the smaller

[@thesingingclown]

I was given a Permobil F3 Corpus by a generous neighbor. Problem is, I am getting 2 alternating errors. M1 1505 brake error and M2 1506 brake error I'd really appreciate any help. Local place wants to charge $150 just for diagnostic.

[@TotallyNormal-]

make sure both brake levers are pointed straight up - also try flipping them both on and off 5-10 times pretty quick to make sure dirt or something isn't stuck down inside. they move the opposite direction for 'drive' mode on each side. there should be a little sticker indicating locked (which is drive mode) make sure to power cycle the chair after all of this.. the errors wont go away unless you restart the chair with the power button.

[@thesingingclown]

I can't thank you enough@@TotallyNormal- . It worked!

[@zacatemarez3600]

A" BRO' I ' REALLY LIKE LOOKING AT UR VIDEOS REAL knowledge I" HAVE A' Quantum eye level wheelchair IT said something about the motors not connected so therefore don't move. I' WAS WONDERING IF U' CAN help me out troubleshooting tips or something thank you I really appreciate it

[@rubberducky8810]

Hi can you please help me with a issue i have ? I have the joystick as shown in ur vid and i have a air horn thats on my q700r and wanted too hook it up too my power supply and use the pwr from the horn speaker in joystick wanted too know if 12v and use the horn button to use air horn many thanks long time subber : )

[@TotallyNormal-]

in theory you COULD use the speaker to drive a small reed relay, then in turn drivs a larger one for an air horn.. BUT any time the speaker gets any signal at all.. the horn is gonna go off! lol R-net has a horn output in the software.. but on a permobil with their custom firmware, i haven't been able to find a way to access that output. IMO just a momentary switch under the arm rest, or somewhere ya can reach it is the best option :^)

[@rubberducky8810]

@@TotallyNormal- ty thats what i was hoping just wondering what the voltage for the speaker is ? will send you pics of stuff on twitter btw im not a twitter fan i use discord and face book but will fire it up liked your last stream ty stay well dan xx♿

[@TotallyNormal-]

speakers work on signal, more than voltage.. little ones like in the joystick are line level.. maybe 0.5v to 1.5v ish.....

[@rubberducky8810]

@@TotallyNormal- OK ty for your help will have to run 12v wire from somewhere and then ad switch pump ect like I thought I might have to I only need a 12v feed for pump if you are willing to get in a voice chat with me or know anyone who would be willing to help me would be very grateful xx

[@leglessinoz]

@@rubberducky8810 you could use a 24V to 12V DC/DC converter or just take the 12V from a single battery. It would increase the drain on that battery if you use it a lot so it might upset the charge balance between the batteries. You might also be lucky if the compressor will run off 24V directly.

[@MrAcordionista]

I need your help, I finally got the batteries replaced and now it seems like my joystick is touchy, I can't turn easily without the wheelchair trying to do a complete circle. It will not go straight, I have a hard time just trying to control it. The wheelchair joystick is so touchy that it's hard to turn in any direction, without it trying to slam me. What could possibly be wrong?

[@TotallyNormal-]

what brand/model is your chair?

[@MrAcordionista]

@@TotallyNormal- it’s a premobil F3

[@TotallyNormal-]

hmm.. wonder if the joystick somehow lost its calibration.. unfortunately that cant be accessed with out a programming dongle.. did a dealer or DME replace the batteries? might need to go back and have them take a look

[@MrAcordionista]

@@TotallyNormal- yes they replace the batteries and the guy said he checked it and couldn’t find a problem

[@MrAcordionista]

He there were no codes

[@sarahlaborde4939]

My Permobil m3 has error code 7f00 bad cable

[@denissechavarria1971]

Hi! My Permobil is showing a message that says dual joystick error 1202... do you have an idea of what can be happening?

[@jasongooden917]

My joystick lasted 6 months. says cable error or something.. im waiting for a warranty repair. i just really hope i don't need a whole new joystick

[@TotallyNormal-]

the cable going to the joystick can break internally - especially if ya have a swing-away joystick mount. the cables dont always get routed correctly by the DME/Dealer and that can put extra strain on them. try not to use the swing-away till new parts arrive if at all possible - the electronics can still communicate with one broken wire.. but if a second one breaks in there, it wont power up/ move anymore. some chairs have replaceable joystick cables, others dont :^/

[@LidLockTV]

its only pure satire is it isnt directed at Quantum Rehab

[@amincom1500]

What if the chair won't start at all

[@hankwinig3972]

The charger flash green chair won't power up at all

[@hankwinig3972]

Quantum rehab

[@mkecran]

They must have changed the connector on the large screen joystick - I now have the large screen and is a unplugable plug

[@TotallyNormal-]

good to know! - its interesting how many differences there can be with the same 'model' of equipment!

[@leglessinoz]

I wonder what it'll be like on my new M5. When I finally get it I'll let you know. A friend's new F3 has a removable cable.

[@TotallyNormal-]

@@leglessinoz please do! useful information!

[@leglessinoz]

@@TotallyNormal- it doesn't appear to want to come out on my new M5.

[@Miapetdragon69]

Mine is saying...JSM 0E00/1200

[@leglessinoz]

0E00 is a "joystick error right" and 1200 is a "dual path comparison right error". They are both caused by the joystick not being centred when the system is powered on. Sometimes moving it fully in each direction and letting go of it suddenly to spring back to the centre before turning on can help. It could be that the joystick itself needs fixing/adjusting internally.

[@emineyank7022]

Are you help me 1704

[@timothycombs1982]

if you are under warrenty make it look like its never been missed with cause for some companies can be dicks and say you voided your warrenty