Repairman's Overview: 1929 Buescher True Tone Alto Saxophone

[@cyclejac51]

Thanks for posting this video. I have one of these Buescher Tru Tone altos from 1929 . Your endorsement of this horn and all the little background information you've given really made me appreciate what I have even more. Thanks!

[@MichaelBruceTaos]

I just bought a 1927 in great condition. I love these sax's!

[@dennisoberlin1020]

Great videos. I have a Buescher like yours serial# 211722 dates to 1926 with a nice original case. Going to use your videos to rebuild it. Thank you.

[@dangreen3145]

Super useful video thanks so much for the detail and history - I was very interested in a 1924 Bruescher but now I know it’s missing some key features!

[@latinkeys1]

I got a nice gold washed one series 4 and i love it. Nice review, thanks for posting. This is the best posting on TT’s on KZbin thus far

[@the_octord]

I have a similar sax, tenor though. True Tone IV, made 1928. Getting it overhauled today, can't wait to play it again!

[@kevinngo9138]

Congrats! Hopefully your horn plays amazingly after

[@greekmaverick]

I own 6 bueschers, and i love them. I share your love, sir. Totally.

[@1dotele]

you need one more

[@StoneysWorkshop]

what a beautiful horn!

[@1mchartmann]

I have one of these serial 255k putting it around 1930. Original silver. I have had a couple of these and I always have a soft spot for them for some reason.I use a Vondoren V16 A7 s+ plays nicely.

[@xpanderxt2]

My horn is sn 245169. It is all original, I have a photo of my granddad playing it in the 30's. I played it from '71 until now. I wrestled it all my life as I never had someone who could set it up right and played the wrong mouthpieces. It was finally setup by Jim Scimonetti and plays wonderful now. I'm using a Vandoren V16 A5 and it plays nice, the altisimo is not as easy as my MK6 tenor but it sounds and plays nice. Thanks for your video, very informative.

[@BadPennyDogBoy]

Thanks for a great series of videos. My Tenor 'True Tone' 113XXX (1922) has been described as having a sound like 'crumpled velvet' A tribute to the quality of the horn rather than to my playing! The pearl buttons on it have been worn at the edges down to the brass, surely a sign that it was great playing machine.

[@rozenaxsax5133]

Beautiful TT you have there Matt. Mine looked like that when I had it cleaned and polished but sadly oxidation doesn't quit even with anti-tarnish strips so it looks very dull compared to yours. However, it's also from '29 (243,XXX) and plays and sounds great. What I love about it is how fast the action on it is. IMO this pinky table beats anything any other vintage horns had back then or even later on because it's a breeze to play. You mentioned the pinky table about four times like it's a problem, but I assume you were catering to people who have no experience with vintage saxes. However, I'm someone who has never played anything but "vintage" saxes starting at age 21 in 63 on a NW II when they weren't called Vintage, just old and cheap. Vincent DePaul Thrift store items at $150 max. LOL. So for me the ergos on this sax are what I am most accustomed to after adapting it to my own hands and playing style. Unlike some vintage sax lovers, I am not a collector but a player and that means modding the sax to fit me better, not to look pristine and pretty. So like you said, and you can see in the attached photos, I put risers on the palm and side keys....those rubber ones on the side keys and ones I made from sugru on the palms. I made a soft cover for the thumbhook from sugru and covered the small low round LH thumbrest under the octave key with some of it to make it larger and higher. This was so my own big thumb can play it better. In fact, I bent the D palm keytouch upward to get it closer to my palm and the F key arm inward towards the Eb one so it's closer to my palm as well. They're maleable so it's not difficult to do if you work slowly and carefully. Doing those few minor modifications has made his sax fit me like a glove because it already has keywork that is Fassssssst and slick. This is unlike the New Wonders of that same period which have always been higher rated for some reason that escapes me as I think these sound better. They also have better keywork because the NWs actually have the worst pinky table of them all. I've owned 2 NWs and this outplayed them. Frankly, as the owner of a Big B, I have never understood why Buescher went to that horrible giant pinky table on the Aristocrats when this design and size was so much more ergonomic and player friendly to use. Go figure. drive.google.com/file/d/1AHTYMY_-FilvYCuBx7avnUI2PgFBb0I9/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1Fe73EauC0QzB2cb7BNGaYKYlXzm6g_JN/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/18h4eR0zwYitilh89ndO_nk2wwTHRozGr/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/10tv-19BjMX_9pXlgST97JCOu1a_uEElT/view?usp=sharing

[@latinkeys1]

Thank you for posting this, I too am a player and did the same thing with the thumb rest and rubber palm and side keys. I didn’t dare do what you did with the bending but now i will, LOL! Great idea, dude

[@ronaldlucero715]

Thank you sir informative video

[@benjanknoetze]

Very informative video. I also have a '29 TT -serial 246xxx. Great horn!

[@xpanderxt2]

What mouthpieces do you find tend to make these play with the best intonation? I have one that my grandfather bought new in the 20's or 30's and that I played throughout my school years. It was restored and plays really nice now.

[@StohrerMusic]

I find that True Tones are pretty mouthpiece friendly, and typically do not require a certain type of mouthpiece to play well, especially in the hands of a good player. My personal preference is for large chamber mouthpieces- I would recommend a Morgan 2C or 3C, which is what I play. Just be prepared to take some time in the shed getting used to how it plays- there is no baffle to help things along, and you must use support from your diaphragm to get a full sound.

[@rozenaxsax5133]

I have been really happy for years playing a Super Session D. Bruce Bailey on SOTW recommended it to me and it has been all I have needed for 12 years. Compare that to buying and trying 20 mpcs on tenor and it's a rare experience. Then last year I got a 90 Berg offset HR bullet chamber. piece which played with a darker reed gives me a bigger sound but not an overly bright one. It's a different feel for raunchier sounding stuff for blues and rock. And this winter stuck inside hiding from Covid I got a NOS Super Session E....although discontinued in 2013 they are still available on eBay if you keep your eyes open. Most are in Italy and France and you can get them for a decent price if you watch and wait. More open but the same round chamber and it plays sweetly but with more volume. Like you said, they are very mouthpiece friendly horns. The great thing is that made so many of them they are literally still a dime a dozen. I might just get another one if I can find it in Gold or Nickel.

[@MostlyDrew]

I just picked up a True tone alto 208,066, it doesn't have the snap in resonators but I'm not to worried about that. I was scared when purchasing it because It's my first sax, before I was playing on a school own'd jean baptist. I love it and haven't found a problem yet. Will be re-hauling it soon.

[@shaggybreeks]

I have a 213xxx TT, and a YAS-23, and got them about the same time. At first, I liked the Yamaha better because it's easier to get a clean tone from top to bottom with it, but after figuring out the embouchure needed for the TT, I hardly ever touch my Yamaha anymore. Those "problems" with the ergonomics disappear in time. It has a more delicate feel than the Yamaha, but the palm keys don't feel too low at all after you've been playing for a while. The ONE thing about these horns is that they NEED a vintage mouthpiece to bring out the "True tone". They will work with any modern mouthpiece, but to get the range of tones and the mellow, sweetness, they need a large barrel mp, such as the one they come with.

[@harveyblankenship564]

I agree. The vintage mouthpiece I have with my 1926 Buescher Alto Sax is no longer playable - it has a crack, running about 1/3 inch from the base and going upwards diagonally. I've found that the Selmer C* mouthpiece is a darned good substitute. Too bad my C* mouthpiece was stolen. I now use a newer Conn-Selmer mouthpiece. It's not as good as the original mouthpiece or the Selmer C* mouthpiece but it will do. As it is, I'm saving-up for a new (or, a good Used) Selmer C* mouthpiece but they are darned expensive!

[@jero2955]

hi sir, the one I'm planning to buy doesn't have a mouthpiece, how would a Yamaha 4--5-6-7 work? thanks a lot

[@daltonmaynor9073]

I'm thinking of getting a TT alto to replace my Yamaha YAS-23 for my senior year in high school and throughout college. What do you guys think? I'll be planning on getting a larger chamber mouthpiece for it when I buy one, maybe the Rascher mouthpiece.

[@cameronm.7732]

I literally just bought a Buescher TT alto less than an hour ago on Ebay and I think a good mouthpiece to use with it would be a large bore Caravan.

[@willeadon9303]

Hi thanks for the video. I have a 258xxx and have been trying to find a neck with no luck so far, can you advise please? I live in Scotland UK. Thank You. Will.

[@cameroncourtney712]

Hey much do you think a 623xx serial would go for if it has a small dent on the bottom?

[@AMIGOIGA]

Good afternoon. I bought an Indiana Elkhart. An Indian is depicted on the horn. serial number 29** (four digits). Low tone. Tell me, please, what year and what rank is this instrument. Thank you.

[@mrcrowleyoz]

Can you do on video on screws, rods, and keys. Where to buy them and how to clean them.

[@goqwertygo]

There is a 1921 Elkhart by Buescher Sax on my local FB market for $150 with what looks like the matching case🤔

[@Zsaxman60]

I was recently given a soprano sax with a serial in the 57000 range that means about 1920. I believe it’s a Buescher, it just says Elkhart band instrument company on it. I’m wondering if it’s worth restoring.

[@AMIGOIGA]

А нет надписи indiana ?

[@Andrew_Whiteford]

yay !, Johnny H played Buescher ;-)

[@danvanlandingham3854]

When he died,the picture in downbeat showed him playing a Buescher,but at the time of his death he was playing on a Leblanc.He was playing Conns in the '40s.Bueschers are my favourite saxes.I have a sixties vintage Aristocrat I just acquired.

[@SaxJockey]

@@danvanlandingham3854 I read up a good deal about Johnny Hodges, that seemed to indicate his Buescher days (after Conn 6M) were on True Tone, Aristocrat and Super 400/Top Hat & Cane. However, in video footage, I was only able to identify Aristocrat. The Aristocrat 'Big Bell' version resembles the Super 400/Top Hat & Cane (which also have a large bell). Interested to know what you found. Either way, JH sounded fantastic whatever he played.

[@marks.6656]

Thanks for yet another great video, Matt. I am a little bit confused about any of the True Tones having varying intonation. Are the body tubes not the exact same tube and neck throughout the entire TT run? Thanks, Mark in Denver

[@andyben87]

I have one, and I must ask what is that odd bottom left tone hole. Its like half the size of the others?

[@devint.2991]

Andy Benevides Fork Eb. You can play an Eb with (123) 4 and 6 down. Can be handy as a C to Eb alternate.

[@ElectraHog]

Do you have any video's on Buescher C Melody. I have a 1921 and your video is so informative I was hoping to see one on the C Melody

[@gretagroce9072]

I have a 204xxx Buescher that has this cluster and F key being shipped to me. May have been an earlier - transitional - form of this model. But it is a lacquered brass and questionable if it had been relaquered. Am taking that chance because it looks pretty shiny in the photos. Some engraving looks pretty deep, though. Will check the neck for a “1” stamp when it arrives. If so, thinking this is, essentially, the same design - or close enough. 🇺🇸☦️

[@cosmicgrooves998]

Ahh... looks like mine. Mine's older 211xxx (1926-1927) and sounds so creamy smooth with the original Buescher mouth piece. Has all the key's my more modern King Zephyr Tenor.

[@GeorgeSax]

Thanks fotvthr video Matt recently got a beucher sax alto true tone low pitch....its kinda strange because it has a longer bell than a normal alto.....are these instruments able to be played with modern 440 tuning?

[@mdickinson]

George Sax I have a dozen of these Buescher altos, and the length of the bell on them is the same as on every other brand of alto. If you have an instrument that has a longer bell, it is probably a “C melody” a.k.a. “Melody tenor” a.k.a. “C tenor.” They are common on eBay and often they are either not identified as such, or are misidentified as an alto.

[@jec0435]

Interseting, I've seen a series three True Tone III with a 202, XXX serial with the roller G# key in gold plate. (1925 ish) So pre 240K serial with roller key.

[@MrTonyTTops]

Just got a 1923 true tone 149,000 it has the pearl buttons to the roller for G sharp but I found a little practice I get used to it

[@justinberry8311]

Hey Matt! I have a '51 Aristocrat tenor. I overhauled it and it plays great- except for the octave mechanism. Both the neck and secondary octave pads move freely, but the octave lever rises too high when playing G above the staff, opening the neck octave key too. I have tried bending the neck mechanism to correct the problem but I end up with either: very little opening of the neck mechanism on A and above, or neck mechanism opens on G and below. I've overhauled close to 100 horns at least, and repaired many others, but I am baffled! Any ideas?

[@arbous65]

Thanks Matt. I just found one in my town for 500 (380 USD). Considering if it requires an 800 Canadian dollars overhaul (if it does would be about 600 USD) so the total of about 1000 USD would it be still worth it? The silver is not as fresh looking as this one of course. Also when you say large tip opening to play in tune, can you give examples of mouthpieces that play in tune with this horn? I was thinking of getting a Meyer 6 copy by Theo Wanne (NY Bros 2). Would that be open enough tip? I don't know if the side walls are scooped or not.

[@meiliabrooks4671]

I have a Buescher, serial number 80046, and it has the pearl pinky key and is missing the front F like you said. I just thought you'd like to know, haha. But I can't get it to play low C or below, unless I drop my jaw and blow a lot of air through the horn. Either way, it doesn't sound too good. Any advice for that?

[@aboveaveragebayleaf9216]

Make sure your mouthpiece is in far enough, and open your throat like if you were yawning. It's not as much of the jaw as it is the throat.

[@cosmicgrooves998]

You're wrong about the cluster. My 211xxx has the exact same as the one in this video.

[@magicpieces9099]

Mine is serial 210238, and I can't get it to play below low G at all. Any advice? PS: I am a clarinet player if that makes any difference.

[@tinyejp]

A beauty, Matt! I have a '27 TT on the way, and was wondering what mouthpiece you'd recommend that wouldn't break the bank? Thanks for your great work, sir!

[@fryloc359]

+tinyejp I just bought a '27, and the original mouthpiece is gone, so I'm interested in knowing the answer to this also.

[@tinyejp]

+fryloc359 Congrats! I found a factory Beucher hard rubber mouthpiece on eBay for around 30 bucks shipped. Sound great! Also played it a lot with a Yamaha 5c, and it's very different, but also good. Sharper, brighter sound; the Buescher MP is much more mellow and...well...20s sounding!

[@mdickinson]

You can find a used 1920s Buescher or Conn mouthpiece on eBay - or you can get a brand new Sigurd Raschèr mouthpiece, which is an identical copy of a 1920s Buescher mouthpiece. They are $140 at raschermouthpieces.com

[@Merf1195]

Matt, do you have any tips on how to remove a musty smell out of a case?. I just bought a True Tone Tenor and the horn and it's case smell kinda musty, but for $175 I can't complain.

[@StohrerMusic]

open the case up, blow out all the dust with an air compressor, leave it open in direct sun for several days. obviously bring it in at night and don't leave it out in rain. you can also try an enzymatic cleaner like "nature's miracle" but direct summer sun for a couple of days seems to work with or without any help.

[@robertoa.garciarexach5896]

Matt Stohrer Baking soda is great for musty, fungi odors. Sprinkle baking soda all over the inside dry covering. Close for a few days 3-5 days. Vacuum to get rid of the baking soda. You’re set. Optional you may put inside the case a good air freshener of your choice.

[@jazzmunky]

I just bought a 250xxx true tone off of Ebay. Truly a thing of beauty but unplayable in current state. The plating is almost intact and no dents but it clearly hasn't been played for decades - the keys are totally gummed up with dirt and it smells of mildew. I'm going to get it properly overhauled but I was wondering if I could do most of the cleaning myself? I'd follow the cleaning method on your website and then reassemble it and hand it over to a tech. Any advice?

[@StohrerMusic]

It probably won't save you money, and its nice as a repairman to see whats going on with the horn when you disassemble and clean it, so personally I'd prefer to do that myself if I'm overhauling it and I think many others might feel the same. If you want to do it for your own fun and knowledge and don't mind paying the same rate as if you hadn't done it, go for it. But ask your repairer first!

[@jazzmunky]

***** Ok, thanks, I'll bring it to the repairer in that case. The main thing is to get it in working order relatively soon. Love your channel btw!

[@Semoem0]

hey matt I need help identifying a sax i bought a few months back. its an alto and pretty similar to the true tone but i cant find any information anywhere. for one, the engraving on the bell has an elk and says "elkhart, usa" the serial number is in the 4*** range. i might think its some sort of template horn or something or even a fake of some sort.

[@StohrerMusic]

sounds like a stencil. google "saxophone stencil" to get up to speed or email me photos.

[@Semoem0]

ive done some research and fro what i found, my horn was not a stencil as it was made by the elkhart band instrument co. themselves.it was made before they were bought out by buescher 1923-1927. its the best information ive got however so im not entirely sure how reliable it is. thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[@3beltwesty]

+Shunkt Funkt The "Elk Hart" with a cartoonish elk logo often has a "20A" by the serial number. This is student model made by Buescher roughly in the late? 1930's to early? 1950's The serial numbers do NOT fit the normal Buescher saxophone serial numbers. Mine is serial 564XX and it's brown case and it's case hardware look 1940's as a wild guess. ie mine is not 1919 like the Buescher charts on the web would show for a Beuscher normal horn. The "elk hart" uses many "true tone" features and based on a decent horn. Google "Buescher 20A" to find more "elk hart" info.

[@Semoem0]

My horn doesn't any letters. The serial number is under neath the lower stack thumb rest if that's the same serial number we're talking about. As stated, my serial number is in the 4000 range.

[@StohrerMusic]

some kind of stencil, google knows the answer to this one

[@thespiritof76..]

I have a 30-31 .org finish not a dent or scratch on it... only problem it hung on a wall for over 50 yrs and every key is frozen

[@MrParangaricutirimi]

I CAN HEAR TO JOHNNY HODGES,... GOOD..GOOD..

[@StohrerMusic]

Yep, take it to a trusted repair person. Saxophones are not difficult to play when in proper operating condition. Good luck!

[@KallieSimchaArt]

I have a Buescher true tone "low pitch" #120065 which I believe puts it at 1923, it was just sent to me from Louisiana from a friend...so I see a very small amount of oxidation in a couple places, but the finish is original with a couple finish wear spots (in the back) would it be MORE in terms of cost to have that taken care of as well? And does "low pitch" mean it's a tenor sax?

[@cameronm.7732]

Low pitch does not mean it's a tenor, it's just the type of model of saxophone that Buescher made, the True Tone Low Pitch series.

[@JamesExcell-InterJex]

The Altissimo on those horns are phenomenal. The tone of it is impeccable. True vintage sax. Best bang for your buck alto. I just don't like the palm keys. 😒

[@twntube]

You're right, the True Tone horns really are excellent instruments and there are still piles of them out there. And they're built like tanks, which helps! I've got three of these horns, two altos at 201xxx and 246xxx; got a tenor in the low 190xxx's that has the Front-F but retains the pearl G#. Apparently the Front-F was an option before it became standard around the 200xxx point. The Pearl isn't really that hard to get used to with a little practice, at least for my pinky!!

[@kennethgsaxrepair38]

Boo-Esch-Sha! ya'll should check out Matt's website, opensource sax project, it has lots of very helpful info!

[@cosmicgrooves998]

@abadcliche ohh, got it. I was getting defensive on behalf of my horn!

[@professorpythongaming9189]

On my conn 20m altisimos are so easy I'll be hitting up to a double g easily