Repertoire: The BEST Brahms Thirds

[@davisbone]

when I was young the IPO was doing Brahms with old Kurt Sanderling. I had a talk with the kind and charming maestro about the tempo of the 1st mov. of this symphony as I heard in a recording he did with the Dresden Staaatskappele. He told me that when he was young (in the 40s) he did this piece with the Moscow Phil. and an old cellist told him that when he (the cellist) was young he played it with old Brahms!! and said that Brahms conducted the 1st mov. in 6 and not in slow 2 like most conductors do but not because he liked it slow, rather because of him not being able to conduct it in slow 2 (which IS very problematic in this piece). I felt like a part of a chain connecting me to Brahms through the generations

[@tarakb7606]

What a great story!

[@b1i2l336]

Karajan/Vienna Philharmonic for me! Just gorgeous. I also love the Steinberg/Pittsburgh, Cantelli/Philharmonia, Jochum/Berlin Phil. and Walter/Columbia Symphony.

[@fgiord8fgg]

I have Jochum's cycle and it is absolutely extraordinary. I enjoy it two or three times every week.

[@perfectblue8443]

The DG collection with the Berliner Philarmoniker is the best indeed IMO

[@steve.schatz]

I cannot agree more heartily with your assessment of Walter's Brahms no. 3. My main problem with interpretations of this work is nearly all conductors take the Finale too slow. It's marked simply "Allegro" but 9 out of 10 versions take it Moderato! And the opening Allegro con Brio is indeed "con Brio"! I'm not familiar with the mono NY Phil set, but will check it out. I did have a professor from my college days tell me he had attended a performance in the 50's in NYC with Walter conducting the 3rd and said it was one of the most shattering and stunning concert experience he ever had! I love BW! And am loving your posts David. You often make me crack up!

[@marnieesjolander1831]

Sir Neville Marriner and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields on Hanssler (1998, together with Symphony no. 4), is a good one too!

[@margin606]

Most helpful - I find that I have the Levine and Walter recordings. Will now re-listen paying greater attention

[@martyanderson7376]

That first set of Walter's is worth having for the closing of the Second alone, where Bruno guns it. Incredibly thrilling!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, that Second really rips!

[@andreashelling3076]

The Walter Columbia misses the repeat in the first movement unfortunately

[@CliveLamdin]

As always, Dave, Sincere thanks

[@mistywalters]

I like Szell best in 3rd. I haven't heard inner movements done better. Well-paced and aptly characterized.

[@brianwilliams9408]

Yup. The way he blends the french horns in the fourth movement is superb and great timpani. Klemperer is good, but not as good as Walter, Szell or Steinberg. I don't agree with most of David's choices here. He mentions Dohnanyi. That guy is so emotionally constipated and he comes off as cold all the time for me. But yes, Walter's stereo 3rd is one of the greatest.

[@mistywalters]

@@brianwilliams9408 would you recommend me your top choices for the other 3 symphonies?

[@brianwilliams9408]

@@mistywalters So many good ones but my personal favorites: Horenstein for the first, Carlos Kleiber (live video recording) or Walter for the second, Stokowski 1974 for the 4th. He has a live version also with a full on horn sound that I love. The studio version is great too so either is good. Kleiber's live recording on DVD is great too. Better than his Vienna recording.

[@mistywalters]

@@brianwilliams9408 thank you very much

[@sammelson1]

Walter’s Columbia SO is no doubt among the best as far as interpretation, playing and recording of the Brahms third in the 20th century. I grew up with the Weingartner version in 1938 which also keeps up the drive in the 4th movement until Brahms forces everyone to let go of it. That performance is still my favorite, but the distinctions are razor thin at this point. Ormandy also had a decent version but it was a 78 set and early like Weingartner’s. Thanks for the review.

[@MrPaevo]

I had Bruno Walter's Brahms third symphony on LP. The way he performs the third movement ("poco allegretto") is simply mesmerizing, even if he exaggerates the dynamic markings.

[@peterzwaga650]

George Szell and the Concertgebouw Orchestra in Brahms 3rd is worth listening. The beautiful penetrating recording is from September 1951 in which Szell brings out the best in the orchestra. Szell gives the orchestra a certain agility that makes an obvious viscosity disappear like snow in the sun. Mono recording made in September 1951, 🎶🍀👈🏼

[@TalAgam]

My personal favorite is Gunter Wand’s later, live performance with the NDR (1998).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks for bringing this up. I actually prefer his earlier one, but I was struggling with whether or not to mention one of his versions--also Claudio Abbado's Berlin Phil recordings, since that Brahms cycle was probably the best thing he did in Berlin overall.

[@james.t.herman]

Wand is one of the best for me, but I have in my notes that my favorite Brahms Third is either Berlin under Abbado or Pittsburgh under Janowski. What do you think of Janowski’s?

[@benjaminwaters3980]

This Walter recommendation is life-changing, thank you!

[@arteguey]

I recently listened to Brahms 3rd in Klemperer's last concert, recently uploaded in KZbin. In my opinion, the best interpretation.

[@이말러]

Lovely review! Personally, Bruno Walter's Brahms 3rd with the Colombia symphony was one of the first buttons that really got me interested in classical music. My mother had some LP collections and as a youngling I would listern to them with my mother. Out of all other recording's Walter's Brahms stood out. I still remember when I first listened to it..the music felt alive and I really liked it. for the next week I listened to it repeatedly until my mother had to put a stop to it. Anyway good to see that my fave got into the top list! Never had I another Brahms 3rd that was more 'alive' then Walter's.

[@johanhendrix5907]

I've always been struggling with Brahms Symphonies, but based on your talks I did buy the (stereo) Walter box, and I got completely convinced by his recordings of the 2nd and 3th symphony. Also having van Beinum's cycle with stereo recordings of the 1st and 4th, I'm fully served now. Thanks for guidance.

[@brandong3816]

I've been a Brahms fan for many years but I hadn't really given this particular symphony much time until recently. This may be Brahms' most well written work. Although it doesn't have the memorable melodies and lyricism that the 1st and 4th have, this symphony makes up for it in its construction. It was made for the orchestra to show off a wide variety of skills.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Boy do I disagree about the "not having memorable melodies" part!

[@Videocommunicator]

Dear Dave Hurwitz, thanks so much for the review, and greetings from Northern Germany. I looked both Walter interpretations up, in You Tube. I must say I like the one from the 50s more; it's more flexible, more vivid, more daring. That goes for some of conductors of the "old guard" when I compare early and late recordings, and that's why I am so interested in historical recordings. I was astonished to find a third interpretation, from 1936, on the channel "Restauration Archive": Bruno Walter conducting the Vienna Philharmonic! That's my favorite of the three! They say there that they liked it even more than Walter's interpretation from the 50s, and I also do. Maybe you'll like it, too!

[@timstevensshh]

Thank you Mr Hurwitz for putting your neck on the line again - it’s all too rare these days to find earnest people who actually have the passion, knowledge base and ability to express a qualified opinion. It should be noted that you made reference to The Sony “Bruno Walter 1995 Edition. It was remastered by Miguel Kertsman. In its day that SBM master was state of the art, carrying with it many of the shortcomings of the original vinyl release; namely base heavy congestion. Furthermore the strings sounded slightly vinegary-even more so (if my recollection serves me right) than a mono CBS release that I wore out by repeated listening. In 2018 Deucalion Project released a version (720p) on you tube which went someway to ameliorate these technical imperfections. Then Sony released a re-mastered edition in 1919. The new Sony issue sports the original Columbia cover of a Chesterfield ensconced Bruno Walter that captures the fathomless expression of the sage (Was that an inspiration for the Matrix movie). This can be heard (1080p) on KZbin too and unless I'm under a placebo delusion it offers some marked improvement over Sony's earlier release. As far as satisfaction goes these more recent releases are equally appealing - the equalization of the lower definition Deucalion is very satisfying and holds its own. After watching your review I purchased an absolute bargain DG/Universal Levine box set that includes his Brahms as I fear it could well get deleted from the catalogue. All the best from Eire.

[@lehmannudo7284]

Mein Liebling bei den Brahms Sinfonien ist die 3.Brahms,ich liebe hier besionders Carl Schricht mit SWF Sinfonieorchester,Horenstein auch SWFSinfonieorchester und natürlich auch Klemperer und Walter aber Schuricht und Horenstein sind es wert dem Vergessen entrissen zu werden,kaufen Sie diese z.B als LPs.

[@GarthAstrology]

Would love to see a video review of the best Brahms Symphony Cycles as well. Thanks for this.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Noted!

[@JamesDavidWalley]

And seconded!

[@damiangruszczynski7451]

...but what about Gunter Wand’s 3rd with NDR (both studio and live recordings?) they have an undeniable beauty extracted by the diligent fascinate in cooperation with the best-sounding German Brahmsian orchestra 😊 Studio recording is superior than live remake, but they are both beautiful 😊

[@marceloforones6939]

Thanks for Levine’s and Dohnanny’s recommendations. I’ll check him side by side with Walters’s stereo one, my most beloved recording.

[@Sheffield6688]

Great videos Dave. I’ve always read your reviews for many years also. For a digital era version, I’ve always had the Deutsche Grammophon 429765-2 Claudio Abbado recording as my go-to. Excellent performance and sound quality. I even have it as my ringtone. 😁

[@clauss2563]

I agree on Jochum, Klemperer and especially the late Bruno Walter, but honestly I would leave out the other performances and replace them by Furtwängler, Schuricht and Kempe with the BPO (EMI ASD 406).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Well, I wouldn't!

[@georgenestler2534]

What about Reiner/ Chicago Sym Orch version, which I find to be both beautiful and exciting? I agree with you about the Jochum Berlin mono set, just great.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

What about it? If you like it, that's great. Enjoy.

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

I prefer a lighter Brahms interpretation. COE/Berglund (Ondine) produced a gorgeous cycle of his symphonies and the 3rd is a highlight. The spacious lightweight approach lets me hear the music more than most discussed here. An exciting and detailed account superbly recorded

[@mixolydianmood7893]

How about Mitroppulus live with RCO?

[@barryguerrero7652]

Hi Dave. This reminds me of when we saw Levine do Brahms 1 with the Vienna Phil. at Carnagie Hall. It was solid, straight ahead performance with that "sumptuous" sound you spoke of. I like Karl Bohm in Brahms 3 too, although arguably not quite as good as Walter or Klemperer. I don't know the Jochum.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They do play beautifully...

[@frankbyrne1488]

Mr. Hurwtz, What is your opinion of Cantelli's Philharmonia Brahms 3? I've always enjoyed it a lot. Thank you for your reviews!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's good. for sure.

[@markmiller3713]

David: I have that Jochum set. It's wonderful. I heard on KZbin a delightful performance of Brahms' 3rd with Kurt Sanderling and the Dresden Staastkapelle. On another matter, I'd give anything to spend a few hours perusing your CD collection!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks, Sanderling is also terrific (but hard to find nowadays, I think). As for the collection, it's in a few pieces in multiple locations. I have no idea how many discs are in it.

[@giacomofirpo2477]

One of the best in my opinion is also Maurice Abravanel and Utah Symphony Orchestra. What do you think about Schmidt-Isserstedt and Ndr Philharmonic in Brahms Third?! Thank you and best regards

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@giacomofirpo2477 I listened to a lot of Schmidt-Isserstedt's Brahms when I did work in the NDR archives some time ago, but I'm sorry to say that I can't recall having heard that performance then or in any subsequent releases. I'll look for it.

[@markmiller3713]

What is the Bach box set that you have in this clip (on the top shelf on the right)?

[@enzomartinelli497]

My favourite rendition: Abbado 1974 with Staatskapelle Dresden kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHqTn6l-n7WArNE Btw, the more recent recording with the BP is very fine, too.

[@marcmurat3776]

What do you think about giulini brahms (vienna Phil)?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

The Third has a great finale; otherwise, slow and very pretty.

[@cappycapuzi1716]

I get the feeling Brahms was really trying to do something different with the third and this was recognized at the time. Some people (not Brahms) have dubbed his third his "Eroica" which is somewhat odd for a symphony in F major. It's my least favorite. I like the middle two movements but the vaulting syncopated theme of the first movement annoys me. Listened to Jochum's EMI recording. He works hard to make the final pages beautiful and memorable. Great chat!

[@ernestrobles1510]

I’ll have to give the Walter another listen. It’s been a while. One of the problems for me with later Walter is that I just don’t like the sound of his pick-up orchestra. My first recording was the Szell and I enjoy it for the reason you noted - It is taut, but I think it is warm and expansive when it needs to be in the finale. On my lp it was coupled with the Haydn variations, again a reference recording for me. I have to say that none of the other performances in Szell’s cycle really do it for me.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Fair enough. The Columbia Symphony isn't to all tastes.

[@james.t.herman]

How does Dohnanyi’s Brahms Third compare to Janowski’s with Pittsburgh? I quite like Janowski’s. I find I prefer Brahms that isn’t played so ponderously, as in Fischer’s First with the Budapest Festival Orchestra. Somewhere in a box I’ve got the Dohnanyi set with Cleveland. Do you think his Third outdoes Janowski and Pittsburgh?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Actually, yes. It's a great Third (and a great cycle generally)

[@james.t.herman]

Excellent. Time to find my Dohnanyi set, then.

[@james.t.herman]

Wow! I can see what you mean about Jochum. He makes the Third work through and through. I’ll take the LPO record for the exposition repeat and better sound quality. My favorite interpretation so far had been Pittsburgh under Janowski, but the orchestra isn’t nearly as strong there, especially in the strings.

[@james.t.herman]

My family lived in England until I was six, and my dad talks about how the London orchestras would give concerts in the small towns. That was part of their deal with the government. This was late ‘70s and early ‘80s.

[@jeffwoodruff1698]

what's your take on the Reiner/Chicago recording?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not among the best.

[@andreashelling3076]

What do u think of the Celibidache Brahms? The one from the 70ies with the SWR is pretty teriffic and not that slow ones with the Munich orchestra later

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yech!

[@RModillo]

The Celibidache Brahms 3 on DG is one of the great one. Wonderfully balanced, fantastic movement forward.

[@ProudBerliozian]

I’m definitely gonna listen to some of these recommendations, but I need to share my own, with a preface: I have forever despised the lackadaisical, uninspired approaches of most conductors (that I heard; and I’ve listened to many dozens of recordings of this symphony,) to the opening two chords, which VITALLY set the tone and drama of the symphony. The tighter, sharper, more aggressive those chords are executed, I believe, the more intense the symphony will be as it develops. Listen, and you shall hear! I cannot stomach Brahms performed half-heartedly; the blood has to be coursing though it’s arteries. And only Klemperer came close to my ideal before I stumbled upon a live recording of Beecham THRASHING (and shouting) his way through the work! Beecham, renownedly repulsed by Brahms’ music (even great men sometimes have poor taste...,) found himself having to conduct Brahms’ third symphony, and, apparently sulking over his plight, launched into the symphony with such disdain-THAT HE CONDUCTED A PERFECT PERFORMANCE OF IT!!! The energy and tautness of the performance is the closest I have to the ideal performance I can imagine. 🤷‍♂️

[@st.lukechamberorchestra5074]

Beecham was wise and generous enough to stay out of the way and let his musicians play, and in this performance it sure paid off. I enjoy the shouting too :)

[@st.lukechamberorchestra5074]

By the way, Beecham’s performance is an incredibly thrilling ride, but it is not perfect. It nearly goes off the rails a few times but his musicians manage to keep the wheels where they belong!

[@luciodemeio1]

Otto Klemperer was born in Breslau, NOT IN HAMBURG !!!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Same difference.

[@williamtoutant9945]

I like the Walter, but I am convinced that one must absolutely take the first movement repeat. Brahms avoids the dominant function in the first movement, and taking the repeat helps emphasize this important structural detail. Otherwise, the Walter is fine.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Dominant shmominant.

[@초전도체-b3b]

I used to love Levine/VPO until the scandal broke out, after which I simply cannot bring myself to focus on the music any longer. Oh well.

[@JamesDavidWalley]

I can sympathize, as someone who is an early music devotee and had lots of recordings of Philip Pickett (either as conductor or featured player), now serving a lengthy prison sentence for rape. At least there are lots of other good Brahms sets out there - in my case, you simply can’t find much of the music Pickett recorded in other versions.