Repertoire: Why Sibelius' Lemminkäinen Suite Really IS A Symphony

[@TimSwensen]

I have enjoyed Ormandy's Philadelphia Lemminkäinen for many years. Thanks, David, for offering up other good recordings to try. It's a very colorful piece.

[@socaljmac7720]

No matter the video subject, I always learn something new and often unexpected from you, Dave. I lost my good friend and classical music guide earlier this year and it is as if he sent me your way to continue my education. Sincere thanks!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm very sorry to hear that, but I'm glad that these videos help to assuage the loss somewhat.

[@adrianosbrandao]

That horn chord that opens the suite is one of the most magical “Once upon a time” in music history. Truly amazing. (Musical “once upon a times” are a great subject for a video, BTW)

[@TienTran-nm6ms]

I would love to see that video!

[@VoceCorale]

@@TienTran-nm6ms Till Eulenspiegel would certainly feature in it.

[@TienTran-nm6ms]

@@VoceCorale Interesting. En Saga always gives me that "once upon a time" feeling that's completely magical. Till Eulenspiegel is a riot!

[@patrickgroenendijk8434]

Thanks for mentioning Salonen. I heard him do the work in Chicago in 2013 and it was unforgettable.

[@curseofmillhaven1057]

Yeah agree lot to be said for seeing the Lemminkäinen Suite as a complete symphonic entity. I really got to know it all (as opposed to just the usual Swan of Tuonela that everyone and their uncle conducts) through Gibson's recording with the RPO on the defunct Collins Classics label. I know a lot of people accuse the performance of lacking momentum, but I think it's one of the most intense, scary (Lemminkäinen in Tuonela particularly) atmospheric renditions (and spectacularly well recorded...the bass will blow your socks off!). I also downloaded Ormandy's EMI version (off the back of the great review on Classics Today) because I really wanted to know what an echt Sibelius' interpreter like Ormandy would do with it, with the great Philadelphia Orchestra - I wasn't disappointed as it really does get across that organic feel of a whole conception of the work. Cheers.

[@mackjay1777]

I've always thought ''Lemminkainen and the Maidens of Saari'' is a masterpiece. And I also hear the "Four Legends" as a symphony. It's great seeing so much enthusiasm for this magnificent music. As as aside: I had never heard any of these pieces in performance until Zander conducted "The Swan of Tuonela'' with the Boston Philharmonic and the effect was astounding.

[@christophermacintyre5890]

"It's OK, Lemmy, Momma gonna rake you back together again."

[@john1951w]

Big thumbs up for the RCA Saraste box set. Great value. My first exposure to the suite was Foss and Buffalo. Not the best playing you will come across but I still enjoy that one too!!

[@jerrygennaro7587]

Yes, Foss was my introduction to this work, both in concert and on record, when recordings of same were not so plentiful. May I suggest that sometimes “not the best playing” can still sometimes reveal little pleasures that the more polished and refined readings gloss over? In any event, Warner has never released that on CD and is now unlikely to do so.

[@johns9624]

Saraste did a spectacularly recorded version with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra back in 2011, with a pedal note in Lemminkainen and the Maidens that will rattle your windows. It has been in and out of circulation except in Japan where it seems to have garnered a reputation amongst audiophiles, and is currently available on Finlandia. Unfortunately The Swan is a bit of a letdown. Not sure if tempo is the only issue (takes a full 9:11). Rather than stygian waters in the realm of the dead it conjures up a vision of Sunday afternoon at a pond in the local park.

[@bgarri57]

It is among the greatest music Sibelius ever wrote--that's for certain. I too thought it would work fine as a symphony. He did want to be accepted in Germany. HOWEVER--Germans did not take to Sibelius nearly as well as in England and America. The latter two countries went crazy for Sibelius' music, whereas Germany and Italy largely ignored him. I once knew a German pianist and composer. He did not care for Sibelius--said his music reminded him of 'mosquitoes!' Perhaps because Germans are piano-based whereas Sibelius was string-based. He was after all, a virtuoso on the violin. To him, the piano did not 'sing' as well as the strings and Sibelius' music is mostly string-based.

[@johnwright7557]

Very fine selections and so is Lintu with the Finnish Radio Symphony on Ondine in terrific SACD sound that you gave a 10/10 rating to on Classics Today.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

Thank you for that. I do have the Segerstam, but I also like the Ormandy, which was the first complete "4 Legends" I heard. I recall that several years ago Lukas Foss recorded it with the Buffalo Phil (?)

[@mackjay1777]

I had that Foss/Buffalo performance on the old Nonesuch LP. A fine rendition. It's on KZbin

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Good wintry music for the onset of the cold season. Luckily I bought the Neeme Jarvi BIS way back when it came out and the Lemminkäinen Suite always struck me as a symphony and I've treated it as such. Nice video.

[@stevenmsinger]

I love the Lemminkainen Suite and have always thought it sounds better all together. I wish Beecham had recorded all four pieces. That might have been fascinating! I'm so glad you mentioned Neeme Jarvi's recording on BIS. It was always special. Not only is it a really good interpretation and performance but that BIS engineering! It sounds like you're on stage with the orchestra. It is the very definition of immersive. What an amazing recording!

[@richardwilliams473]

Thanks,David for playing excerpts from your cd s. ! I remember playing the tambourine in the exciting last movement

[@salt_cots]

It's a great piece, one of my favourite Sibelius works. The popularity of the Swan has never caught on with me; it’s “Lemminkäinen and the maidens of the island” that I listen to most often, even 3 versions back to back in one sitting!

[@samuelstephens6163]

It really ought to start being called 'Lemminkainen Symphony' on releases and programs.

[@anttivirolainen8223]

Thanks for the recommendations! Neeme Järvi's Bis recording is certainly worth considering (the one on DG I already have). Segerstam's recording of Lemminkäinen is an invigorating one, one of Segerstam's finest achievements. It also contains one of the finest Tapiolas I know (along with Karajan's). But after Segerstam perhaps my favorite Finnish recording of Lemminkäinen is an old cd by Mikko Franck and the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra. Franck's interpretation is just as passionate and idiomatic as Segerstam's, but I doubt if one can find it anymore.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That's why I left it out. I have it but it seems to have vanished.

[@michaelmasiello6752]

It exists in ghostly virtuality. I have it via iTunes!

[@anttivirolainen8223]

@@michaelmasiello6752 Old records never die, they just fade away... By the way, Decca has just reissued old recordings by Jussi Jalas, Sibelius's son-in-law conductor. It's a 3-disc set, which includes the complete Lemminkäinen Suite. It arrived in today's post and I'm curious to listen to Jalas's recording of Lemminkäinen. I've heard that Lorin Maazel himself would have been interested in doing the complete Lemminkäinen, but the brass at Decca had already agreed to let Jalas do it... Was it a right call? I doubt it, but we'll never find out. Nonetheless, Jalas's recording should be interesting to hear.

[@AlexMadorsky]

@@michaelmasiello6752 yes, it’s on Qobuz as well. I’ll have to give it a listen.

[@michaelmasiello6752]

I was so sxcited to see this! I’ve been waiting for a Lemminkäinen talk to finish up the series on Sibelius’s symphonies. I was surprised that you didn’t mention the Mikko Franck/Swedish Radio recording on Ondine, which, if my dubious memory serves, you praised very highly on ClassicsToday-but I love all the versions you did choose. Segerstam is my favorite of them all, and I really do prefer to hear the Swan third-for some reason that feels “right.” In any case, this ticks one off my wish list. I do have a suggested topic for the future, though, which has nothing to do with Sibelius: you’ve done great stuff on Requiems before, despite your dislike for wallowing in musical misery (I think of it rather as Yeatsian “terrible beauty”). But how about videos on early requiems-I mean Ockeghem, Victoria, Clemens non Papa, Cardoso, Duarte Lobo, Lassus-and another on requiem settings from Fauré on? I’d love to see you apply your formal wizardry to Stravinsky’s Requiem Canticles, Penderecki’s Polish Requiem, or Schnittke’s Requiem, with that crazy burst of quasi-rock drumming toward the end. Just another of my idle thoughts. But huzzah for the Lemminkäinen Symphony! A wonderful discussion that complements the discussion in your Sibelius book.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

The Franck seems to have vanished.

[@michaelmasiello6752]

It survives, for now, in 0s and 1s-one can get it on iTunes. For the actual disc perhaps a requiem is in order.

[@HassoBenSoba]

Glad I got a copy of M. Franck when I did; it's fantastic.

[@brucknerian9664]

Yes, thanks for calling the Lemminkainen a symphony; it surely is. Should be included in an box set of his symphonies.

[@neaklaus52]

What do you think of the Ormandy Recording on EMI Classics?

[@paullewis2413]

I assume that’s the EMI recording from the late 70’s don’t think they made another. For me it’s the gold standard, can’t listen to any other performance however good, without comparing to Ormandy who consistently remains the finest by a long shot.

[@edelmantos]

Very interesting, thank you. Would you consider making a similar video about why Das Lied von der Erde is a symphony too?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't think there's ever really been a question about that, especially as the work is invariably performed intact--but I'll think about it.

[@edelmantos]

@@DavesClassicalGuide That's true, but then all this categorization of classical works is mysterious at times. It might be interesting to make a talk about this topic in general. Besides, we all love Mahler videos, don't we? ;)

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

@@larsjohansson7954 Yes, we all know that.

[@robertbubeck9194]

Great overview, Dave! In your opinion where does the Ormandy/PO/EMI version (now remastered on SACD) of Lemminkainen stand these days relative to your recommendations?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

If it's not in my list it's because I don't think it deserves to be!

[@markmelson1925]

What about the 1950s mono Columbia Ormandy? It's more exciting than the later EMI version, though I realize the recorded sound will be a deal-breaker for some listeners.

[@WMAlbers1]

Well... The dividing line between Sibelius' symphonic poems and symphonies has always been narrow, but distinct. But indeed, Sibelius considered the four legends "somewhat as a symphony" (summer of 1957 to Santeri Levas).

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No you don't have to find anything. Just take my word for it. It's a symphony.

[@montanamontana80]

Lemon juice😂