Replace Lead Acid Battery With Lithium (LiFePO4)

[@cleversolarpower]

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[@Leon_Tentek]

I can really learn a lot about photovoltaics by watching your videos. Keep up the good work and support you👍

[@cleversolarpower]

Make sure you are subscribed!

[@s.mendez7160]

Hey Nick, I'm glad you mentioned proper fusing for LFP batteries. I have lots of Van Life DIY people using ANL fuse type on very large LFP banks. Great content. Your videos are concise and on point. Thank You.

[@cleversolarpower]

I made a video about different fuse types. You should send them that video 😄

[@twiddler71]

Thank you for this insightful video. One of the most common mistakes people make with solar is not understanding their batteries and how to properly charge/maintain them.

[@hmtechsvc]

it would be good if you could further talk about what happens to lifepo4 that are charged using agm charging curves - i say this because there are a TON of ppl who have done this - that would really compliment this video - thank you for your content!

[@peteroffpist1621]

I did change my led acid battery in my Prius 2010 to LifePO4 no change to altinator and battery is still ok. I also use since 10 years a LifePO4 battery for my electric boat motor with a normal lead acid charger, no problem yet. I am not saying that it is good to do so but it seems to work for a while at least.

[@cleversolarpower]

You replaced your starting battery with lifepo4? I do not recommend that.

[@johnwilson839]

I have heard the old wives tale about avoiding storing batteries on concrete for years. Over time I have come to believe that the rumor perpetuates itself simply because many people store old batteries in basements and garages hoping to use them in a pinch later only to find them completely dead through age. This is the first time I've heard the don't do it because concrete is conductive. I think concrete is an insulator for most practical purposes including battery storage. Just don't neglect the batteries maintenance as time goes on and you'll be fine even if your substrate of choice is concrete.

[@cleversolarpower]

Concrete is not conductive. The case for this is that concrete is cold. The temp difference is not good for the battery.

[@Mr1797071]

I want to know the conversion of L-16 amp hour ratings to LiFePO4 amp hour ratings.

[@trevortrevortsr2]

A dodge some use on the UK canals is to wire the lithium house battery in parallel with the starter lead battery with 8ft of 8awg - the lead battery stops any surge damaging the diodes and the long run of modest wire drops the cushions the volts at high amps - it often means the lithium's take ages to fill the last 20% but narrowboats often run their engines for hours

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't advise doing this. Will it work? Maybe.

[@mohammdsaeed4722]

Hi friend 👋 please videos about Earthing in Solar System?

[@utube521]

01:44 - cannot battery's bms do that protection?

[@cleversolarpower]

The BMS is not made to interrupt a short circuit.

[@utube521]

@@cleversolarpower thank you

[@brushbum7508]

Good Morning ! Thank You. TAKE CARE..

[@MrGurdeep1988]

What are alternator charges

[@cleversolarpower]

Alternator charger or DC-DC converters. Used to charge lithium battery.

[@thriveforbest3217]

Sir can you tell me If my car has no other battery just 12 LTO yinglong cells 2.3v 45ah Alternator is stock alternator. Why do i need dc to DC charger? If my audio system is draining current from starting then car .so my alternator won't be suffering or any components

[@cleversolarpower]

Already answered you on the alternator charging video.

[@stephenhickman9502]

I'm using a 400 amp hall effect sensor. Are shunts better?

[@cleversolarpower]

I have not compared a hall effect sensor vs. a shunt. I use a shunt for all my installations. You can get a shunt and place it side to side to see which one is more accurate. I believe both are accurate, but does your sensor come with a display?

[@stephenhickman9502]

@cleversolarpower yes it has a very informative display. It gives real-time amp usage, amp hour/capacity, watt usage, estimated run time in hours and minutes. It's been good.

[@hmtechsvc]

hall effect sensors are subject to magnetic interference of any sort - just try a magnet near it - inline shunts do not have this weakness - good question

[@stephenhickman9502]

@hmtechsvc Thank you! Very cool. I will experiment with that. I feel already that I'm going to upgrade. Stay blessed my friend.

[@terryuland6502]

Why did you say not to put batteries on bare concrete?

[@cleversolarpower]

Concrete can create a temperature difference between the bottom of the battery and the rest of it, especially in cold weather conditions.

[@nomanshah6761]

​@@cleversolarpower thank you for the answer, i want to know that if there is any other reason, like ground conductivity, etc.

[@shanedavis1903]

Why have equalisation voltage for lithium at 14.6v ? Most lithium chargers dont equalise ie equalization time set to 0

[@cleversolarpower]

If you cannot set it to 0, then you can set it to 14.6V because it will never be reached.

[@thriveforbest3217]

How much this battery monitor cost? This looks great useful tool

[@cleversolarpower]

About $40 here: amzn.to/4bYvy1c

[@gusbisbal9803]

Can you get a shunt that talks over CAN Bus?

[@racko6ix]

I thought I'd chech switch over videos to get insight on performance. This is got to be good knowledge, but my 52v li-ion came with it's own proper charger. So I'm gonna use that and the SLA charger can kick rocks. I wouldn't mix chargers with different batteries anyways.

[@Ekanselter]

Very good to know!

[@Rudykanal]

Hold on! The charging voltages you are recommending are very aggressive! (BTW, I´m a professional). Lithium batteries, opposite to lead-acid, trives at 20-80% charged state and not at hige voltages over time. You do not need to go above 14,2V to charge fast to 100%. The amount on Ah you get from 14,2V to 14,6V is negligible. If you go to 14,6V you will also probably trip the BMS charging shut off. This is a safety precaution you should not relay on as the end of charge control. It also creates a load dump witch in some cases are harmfull to electronics. This will vary upon the charger used. Charging to the maximum tolerable voltage has no purpose, especially in an RV where the battery is charged every day and rarely is depleted. Also the floating voltage should be kept at a lower state. 13,35V will hold the charge at whatever level you have charged up to. 13,3V will be the best level to maintain around 90% SOC and the battery will live forever. 13,4V if you prioritize holding the battery at 100% SOC at all time. Higher than this will not give any benefits. It will only contribute to mote wear on the battery. Lithium profiles on many chargers does not take into consideration the specific use of the battery. It is often based on full charge at a the shortest possible time and then put the battery to use. In an AV this is rarely the case. Therefore I prefer a fully adjustable charger. My recommendations for charger parameters: Prioritizing the battery health: Bulk/absorption: 14,0V. Absorption time: 0. Float voltage: 13,3V. Prioritizing fast charge and 100% SOC: Bulk/absorption: 14,2V. Absorption time: 0 or max 30 min or so. Float voltage: 13,35V. About the fuses. Did you take into consideration the built in current limiter in "Drop in batteries"?. A typical 100Ah battery has a limit on 100-200A in the BMS. I don´t know how fast they are, but I assume it is faster than a slow mechanical fuse? If this is the case the theoretical short circuit currents you refer to is nothing you will experience in real life?

[@cleversolarpower]

These are factory recommended charging rates. Indeed, there is not much capacity difference, but the balancing function of the BMS only starts if they are at high voltage. A BMS cannot cut the short circuit current. It's an electronic switch, not a proper fuse.

[@keithduffield5239]

I agree with you, and I am also a professional. Also extremely large fuses is dangerous advise if the cables are not upgraded to carry the fuse rating. If you don't and there is a short circuit, the actual reason for the fuses, then the cables may overheat and cause a fire long before the fuse blows.

[@keithduffield5239]

BMS can cut for short circuit current, most I have seen (and use) have a specific (factory programmable) internal short circuit detector with timeout and rest times, designed specifically to handle short circuits. Pity I can't post pictures here otherwise I would send you screengrabs of BMS control software setup screens. In any event the BMS will limit the output current to the batteries rating (not the cell capabilities) under normal operation and you won't be able to draw more so there is no point in using a fuse greater than 1.25 X battery rating. Being an electronic switch it is probably thousands of times faster than a physical fuse which has to heat a wire until it fails. MOSFETS can switch in nano or micro seconds. In a lead acid battery it is up to the charge controller and system design to look after the battery charge/discharge rates. A battery with a BMS, is just that, it's all in the name, Battery Management System. The BMS looks after the cells in the battery, including limiting the charge and discharge rates to the factory recommended rates.. I take your point that the high charge voltage is needed to trigger balancing. However it is not cut and dried. Each battery will have its own voltage at which this occurs. That is why you should ALWAYS use the charge parameters specified by the manufacturer. This is most often printed on a label on the battery.

[@fratermus5502]

Agreed on all points, @Rudykanal

[@fratermus5502]

@@cleversolarpowerCharging rates != charging voltages.

[@stevehardyuk]

Hi Nick I did not understand the fuse needed for the battery. Its probably me so please forgive me. Steve

[@cleversolarpower]

Charge controller current * 1.25 = minimum fuse current. Check out my video about choosing fuses and wires for more information.

[@stevehardyuk]

@cleversolarpower thanks Nick, yes will go back and watch the video. I also bought the book. Many thanks Steve

[@hmtechsvc]

agm is higher resistance - lifepo4 can (really) do sustained 1c - whatever your use case for swapping out agm - you need to be ready for that current in both directions - fuses are always a good idea - i prefer 2 pole breakers as they completely isolate instead

[@nate.leal.]

You incorrectly said “essential.”

[@KyaloSengani-ou2hl]

Iam solar technician in kenya lead acid are complete failure

[@cleversolarpower]

They are still good, but lithium is much cheaper than lead acid now.

[@simon359]

Equalization should be disabled!

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed!

[@hmtechsvc]

can you elaborate please?

[@simon359]

@@hmtechsvc Lead acid only has equalization, not lithium!

[@april7_]

One question about fuses is that if a battery has it own BMS capable of 100A or 200A what is the purpose of so big fuses?

[@cleversolarpower]

A BMS is not the same as a fuse. A BMS cannot break a short circuit current it's just a switch. The use depends on the power output of the inverter, because thats the largest in the system. You can add batteries later on. That way the fuse is correctly sized from the start.

[@s.mendez7160]

We use fuses to protect the wire from melting the insulation, and starting a fire...