How Many 12V Batteries for 3000W Inverter

[@cleversolarpower]

FREE diagrams: cleversolarpower.com UPDATE 1 : at 14:30 I used the wrong formula. It should be Capacity=Current/C-rate -> 250A/0.2C=1,250Ah. UPDATE 2: at 6:40 you should fuse every cable with a 200A fuse instead of one 350A fuse. My Best-Selling book: cleversolarpower.com/off-grid-solar-power-simplified Cables: amzn.to/3XbLfhn 12V 100Ah Battery: amzn.to/3MgFdWw 12V 200Ah Battery: amzn.to/3SYwtYI MRBF fuse holder: amzn.to/3X0bmqc MRBF fuse: amzn.to/4dXFNV5 300A busbar: amzn.to/4dR4Zwj MEGA fuse: amzn.to/3AyrYht

[@Romeo1800]

I think there is still something wrong with calcs: 250A is the invtr max amps, C rate applies to batt amps not inverter amps: batt amps is 20A. So is it Inverter amps/C rate, or batt amps/C rate?

[@Romeo1800]

BTW, I am using 4- 6vdc Fullriver AGM batteries with a GoPower 3000W inverter. I installed the new AGM's yesterday, but was trying to chk, beforehand, if 4 batts would work with the 3000W inverter.

[@jacobvastenhoud2456]

😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@jacobvastenhoud2456]

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@QuyHo-l8l]

@@Romeo1800 kích 3000w 12v bao tien

[@j.b.8767]

Nice job with your presentation! I am a power plant operator, and have these formulas on the brain, and had the calculations in place almost instantly when you asked your various questions on how to set up this system (safely).... As I say, great job! Thanks for the important service to others which you've provided here! Most house fires are electrical (malfunctions and failures) fires...so presenting good info, as you do, completely, (after amending the calculations in subsequent updates), will definitely save lives! God bless you, brother! Happy new year!

[@cleversolarpower]

I'm always wondering if people know the formulas before i present them. Now i know!

[@SoundzAlive1]

Thank you, you have explained things much clearer than most other channels. All you explanations and designs translate perfectly for boats where it is critical to get it right. André in Sydney

[@owolabiadeteye5919]

Thanks for time taken to prepare and deliver this insightful lecture. Great one boss

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@wilty5]

As a beginner , I appreciate your your thorough and detailed explanation of the solar system setup. Thanks

[@angrydutchman8590]

Really awesome instructional videos . . . thank you! As a newbie to solar generated power, the 48v system you diagrammed in the video is very appealing. However, I am wondering if you might either, 1: add an addendum video on how to calculate needed solar panels to charge the EG4 battery, or 2: simply respond with the number needed and the calculation used to arrive at the required number. Thanks and keep up the great work!

[@cleversolarpower]

i have made a video about how many solar panels you need.

[@daves1646]

Thank you for the reminder that we can use multiple smaller gauge wires to carry the high current loads from each battery!!! Much easier than working with 4/0 wiring. On why 12v batteries, I started with a system to supply my RV with DC power first, and used 12V a Lithium battery systems because 24 or 48v system would need a DC-DC converter to supply ALL 12v DC needed by the RV for lights, propane heater, fans, water pump, 12v refrigerator and all of the DC controls for other appliances. Most DC converters have poor efficiency so there is a lot of heat/energy loss to power all the DC devices in the RV. Then ….. we decide we want to expand our system to add an inverter for occasional use of AC appliances like a microwave oven or charging laptops/tablets/phones/etc and don’t want to replace our 12v battery bank.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you are going to split the wires up, they need to be minimum 1/0 (55mm²) each. If you split the 4/0 cable into two cables, they each need to be fused and be minimum 1/0, but in your case you need 2/0 minimum.

[@toddstanley3619]

Overall this is a great video and very informative. Understanding types of batteries is important. Lead acid standard car batteries are not the same as lead acid deep cycle. Deep cycle batteries are used in heavy equipment, commercial diesel trucks, and marine applications. 13 lead acid batteries is standard car batteries. If using marine or big truck 12 volt deep cycle the 4 is minimum 6 is good, 8 is best when talking about stored power. Deep cycle like LiPo discharges at a slower rate over time. Standard car batteries discharge quickly.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed. Most people don't consider the c rates of different types of batteries .

[@MrSilvertech]

@@toddstanley3619 what is 4 a minimum for though ? You need to take in your requirements as well as your availability of solar or other means of recharging vs the weight you are going to carry. 4 large deep cycle batteries is more than plenty for me with 200watts of solar and a dc-dc connected to the truck. If I needed even another 2 lead acid batteries I'd get rid of them simply for the weight savings of lithium. I'm already pushing 250lbs for the 4 I have !

[@nobody1841]

Sailboat life (15 yrs) - my 329w hi output panel outperforms 500+ watt regular panels. I use 4 6v golf cart bats for total of 450 amp hrs. I often see the panel output 63+ volts and 20amp input from the Victron 30amp controller. I run a Victron inverter, and as a photographer I use calibrated monitor, computers, external drives, battery charging for many devices, etc. Add the frig, lights, 8 fans, a real hifi stereo, blender, water pumps, shower sump pumps and the batteries are usually floated back down by noon. Next time I'm going lithium, maybe add another panel. Maybe not. It's the high output panels that make it possible. Otherwise there would be many solar panels needed. If my sailing grounds weren't in FL, Bahamas, I would definitely need more panels, no doubt.

[@johnconrad5487]

AMAZING... 4X 6v BATTERIES = 24V. Does your Victron Boost the voltage from 24V to 63+ Volts and you have all those other loads connected and running at the same time. Add the frig, lights, 8 fans, a real hifi stereo, blender, water pumps, shower, sump pumps??????????????

[@nobody1841]

@johnconrad5487 Let's see if I can help understand this better. Goal is a 12v system. First concept in this is to double the volts. Then double the amps. Rule - when connecting batteries, we can either double the amps, or we can double the volts. We need to do both. We start w four 6v bats, 225amp each in this example. First, We want to connect two 6v bats in serial. We connect them pos to neg, which will create one 12v battery. Do the same w the other two batteries. Now we have created two 12v batteries at 225amps each. We have doubled the voltage but not the amps. Each set of two has one remaining pos post and one neg post. Next we connect them in parallel by connecting pos to pos and neg to neg. This has now doubled the amps to 450amps in a 12v battery bank. The charge controller manages the power input (solar panel). The panel can be 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 , whatever. Using the app, we tell the controller unit what our system voltage is. In my case it's 12v because my fridge fans and lights are all 12v. I hope this helps. Edit: The charge controller does more than manage the power coming into the system. It also manages the charging of the batteries so they don't over charge. These charge settings are peculiar to batteries by brand. The settings are obtained by visiting the battery brand website.

[@RichDzintars]

@@nobody1841 Hello, I am trying the same with the 6 volt golf cart batteries that will give me 12 volts at 450 amps. I already have these batteries past use. Nick, has advised only 100 amps max in his video and email asking about this. How many watt inverter are you using? I am trying to to use a Renogy 3000 watt inverter. How long has your system been active? Rich

[@nobody1841]

@RichDzintars I've been running 12v system using 6v batteries for 14 years. Using Victron controller MMPT 100/30 and 1200 Victron inverter. If I'm going to wet vac or run heavy saws I use the generator because I don't like to stress the batteries hard. Usually get about 6-7 years. Next time I'm going lithium LiFePO4 because they are finally ready for prime time. Take note, 6v batteries in the 12v system are full at at 2.7v (12v bats full at 13.4). So when you wake up and they show 12.2 - it is no big deal. The rule is, when the bats lose 1 whole volt, they are 1/2 gone and close to being useless. This means 12v batteries would be in trouble at 12.2v overnight.

[@MrSilvertech]

@@johnconrad5487 you run series / parallel. Two 6's in series make 12 (do that twice) and run those in parallel. I have 4,6v 210 ah deep cycle. This gives me 420 ah of 12 volts

[@UmpTSquat]

Nick, I am late watching this. I learned quite a bit from you in this video. Thank You. You explained things in a very easy to understand video. I have watched hundreds of hours of videos. I don't remember seeing it explained in this manner. Thank You again. I have subscribed. I'll go back and watch your other videos.

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks for the sub!

[@dagordon1150]

Thanks!

[@cleversolarpower]

Thank you for the donation!

[@VicariousAir]

Wow... That was the best explanation you could get. Answered why my RV keeps dying and why the RV mechanics that "fixed" the system may have just set me up to die in a fire.

[@cleversolarpower]

My pleasure 😀

[@b3nsfamchannel]

great job sir...As a beginner, I appreciate your thorough and detailed explanation. Gbu.

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks for the sub!

[@fredbecker607]

This was very helpful for a beginner like me.

[@Detour4it]

You know your science, and your videos are detailed and a great help.👍

[@kabandajamir9844]

The world's best teacher thanks sir

[@Daddypawo59]

good teacher

[@Detour4it]

Been waiting patiently and it arrived today! What an amazing book(.) You've managed to put together a presentation of solar that (so far, from what I've read) is the best explanation on paper that I've experienced, and I've read through alot of books. Well worth the money. People contemplating solar will find this book 99% of the make it happen. Love it. 🫵👍👊

[@cleversolarpower]

Thank you kindly!

[@timkat630]

The book is excellent !!

[@jeanphilipperoberge8574]

Where can i get that book

[@Detour4it]

@@jeanphilipperoberge8574 he has a store. Go to the link

[@ColumbusDixon]

Thanks

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks Columbus, I appreciate the support!

[@OneToGo1]

thank you very much for taking time and answering that question. for the pure Factor you took time to answers questions I have just subbed into your Channel

[@nordic5490]

I have one of these in my camping car, plus 2x 120AH Kings 12V LFP batteries in parallel. Works great. I upgraded my alternator, and charge these LFP batteries @ 90A. Works great, too easy. This inverter has a very quiet fan that is rarely even audible. I can recommend it hightly. It also has a UPS function. The relay will switch from mains to inverter power in 30ms. Buy it.

[@cleversolarpower]

I will ask renogy to send me an inverter.

[@nosaj999-g9n]

It doesn't switch fast enough to keep my p.c. on unfortunately

[@IH-nr7dx]

I also have a Renogy 12v 3000w inverter. I had no idea it has a UPS option. Its not needed in my setup since I have it connected to my AC panel through a transfer switch. I will dig into this feature - I would like to know how it works.

[@rl5271]

Great explanation and much appreciated!

[@uupyerkilt]

Thank you so much as this is exactly the system I have been looking to install in our small travel trailer.

[@cleversolarpower]

Then I failed trying to explain that a 3kw inverter on a 12V system is not ideal.

[@uupyerkilt]

@@cleversolarpower My trailer is already wired with 12-volt solar, It has 1 100-watt panel and 1 75-ah lead acid battery. I am removing the lead acid and installing 2 lithium LI Time 100ah batteries and adding 2 more 100-watt panels. The travel trailer is only 16 feet long, so to go to 48v seems like more money and not necessary.

[@freedomisfromtruth]

Very good explanation but you need to tell them that a battery of certain capacity will run the inverter for less amount of time if rated smaller. A 1500W capacity battery will still run the inverter 30min. if the 3000w is close to being used. Capacity is time dependent. More capacity the longer it will run it.

[@cleversolarpower]

Of course, but that isn't the point of this video 😉

[@MrNightraider]

Nice diagrams! Very informative!👏🏼

[@cleversolarpower]

My pleasure!

[@khieusovannara2281]

It's well explaint and love to watch it but I'm not electrician, very little understand about wire and connection

[@gavgene371]

After watching this i followed with an instant subscription, thank you easy to follow and very informative 👍

[@mikehammond5248]

Below Update 2, you state we could use 200 a. fuse in lieu of 350 a. single fuse at the two parallel conductors. So use 200 a. fuse for each separate wire or could I use a 200 a. two pole conduct with both wires connected? This parallel conductors helps so wire is smaller and easier to work with. A 200 amp two pole / phase breaker could also be used for both wires connected to (12 v. DC)? I think I have watched all of oyur videos more than once. They are so educational, informative & easy to follow!!! Thanks for all you have done and continue to do for us off griders! The book helps a lot too! Mike

[@cleversolarpower]

Hello Mike, you need two 200A fuses. One for every cable. Thanks for your support! 🙏

[@allangibson8494]

Circuit breakers are superior to fuses in all applications. The issues are they drop 1V at full load and they need to be rated for DC load breaking.

[@alwardslab8732]

nice, but i miss time in the ecuation... most uses are solar, so they will need an 8h buffer for the night, which means more batteries, also account for bad weather as in fog days, where batteries do not replenish.

[@cleversolarpower]

I have videos about that. Search my channel for load analysis.

[@letterglettera9318]

thank you, thank you! i have been doing my research about the same thing. thank you. it makes great sence now. thank you.

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad i could help!

[@Forevertrue]

Very helpful and useful presentation. Exactly what I was looking for.

[@professorg8383]

So, I'm looking to create an emergency fall back system. Un other words, to only use in a power failure. So, limited use and probably around 1500 watts continuous, but capable of up to 3000 watts potential for fairly short periods. (maybe 10 minute or so) I have an old 36 volt golf cart using (6) 6 volt lead acid batteries. It was originally a resistive type controller, but I converted it t a solid state motor controller. It works very well and is a very clean conversion. The batteries I use are typical golf cart batteries rated at 110 watt hours. There are a few 36 volt inverters out there, but they are pricey. When I redid the system, I used larger cables and bolted connections. I have the controller fused at 300 amps. The controller is programmable and I can tune it to adjust performance and can also use the software to monitor performance. I run it in a moderate mode and mostly on flat terrain. My goal was to make it perform better and be less harder on the batteries. I have a few years of the batteries and they are in good shape. They run cool in my usage and I rarely need to add water. I believe the conversion I did worked very well and overall battery life should be better than original. A potential option when I need to replace the batteries, is to switch to 8 volt batteries for a 48 volt system. The controller I have can run on 48 volts and the motor can also operate at 48 Volts, giving me a bit more top end speed. In retrospect, I probably should have made that change when I did the conversion. But I would have needed a different charger, When I need to replace batteries I'm considering using (6) 8 volt lead acid or possibly reconfiguring the battery box and going with Li Fe Po4 batteries and a new charger. and retuning the controller for 48 volts. The nice thing about this approach is it would make using the cart as a quick, plug in 48volt inverter system. My goal is to provide emergency power to my barn/shop. The shop uses a pretty typical 100A 120/240 volt 3 wire system. I don't use too much 240 volt appliances, with the biggest draw being a 240 electric water heater and occasional use powder coat oven. I could run my water pump at 240 volt but currently use 120volt. Other than that, I have a couple welders and a plasma cutter that can run on 240 volts or 120.volts. Asl have an office AC and 240 volt electric heater. All my lighting is LEDs. My thinking is to not use any of the 240 loads in this emergency configuration. My average load using only the 120 volt is under 1500 watts. I'm not looking to go off grid, but just a quick way to power limited usage during a power outage. Power outages of a couple hours is not uncommon and I do have a portable gasoline generator I use on extended outages. I use a small transfer panel now, with the generator, And I have a smaller propane generator that only outputs 120V and is set up for extension cord use. It's a bit quicker to set up for limited use. Outages in the winter are the worst because often the weather is bad and getting the generator set up is unpleasant! But I have this little powerhouse of the golf cart, parked in my shop! I'm trying to figure out a quick set up use of it in my back up plans. In the winter, having lights, being able to run the pellet stove and some small loads, I'm an electrical engineer and all the switching/isolation stuff is in my wheelhouse. but I don't have much experience with LiFePo4 batteries. I think the use of the golf cart a a power source, has some real potential. I know a lot of people who have electric carts and I'm wondering if anyone has done this. And am curious to get ideas. Likewise, for the with EVs, think about being able to utilize that energy source as emergency back up power. If you live in the country like I do, you probably face fairly frequent outages. A whole house automated back up generator would be nice, but they're a big investment. An electric golf cart is a nice energy storage source and EVs would provide an even larger storage source. I would appreciate any thought or comments.

[@cleversolarpower]

I recommend using lifepo4 batteries, they are much cheaper. Check my recent video where i compared to an AGM battery. If you are going to use a 48V system, you should wire 48V batteries in parallel, not 12V batteries in series. I also made a video about that recently.

[@JohnBraman413]

nice breakdown on how many batteries to use a 3000w inverter. now next video should be how many solar panels to maintain those batteries.

[@cleversolarpower]

Checkout my video about sizing a solar system.

[@JimSmith-q4o]

@@cleversolarpower

[@Bazza1968]

Or what to get to grid/mains charge them if used without solar as a house backup system?

[@paulywally1957]

I see what you're saying and how it looks like it all adds up but I have been running a 200 amp hour battery Bank lithium and a 3000 watt pure sine inverter to run my induction cookware my induction oven and every other appliance and have never had an issue. I even run an air conditioner that is an indoor one for my RV that vents out the window and it runs that fine too.

[@stahpit1971]

Pretty sure he's giving recommended usage. You are always free to burn your stuff up just make sure children and pets can be rescued safely.

[@cleversolarpower]

You can even use a 5000W inverter on a 12V battery, but that doesn't mean it's good design choices. I'm making people aware that there are better design options.

[@JimSmith-q4o]

How long will your system run of the battery’s?

[@garyprice5375]

Hi thanks for sorting my issues for working out how to run my Renogy 3000w inverter with all the wires,Can you help me with how to Power the Batteries, I have a 200w solar panel that works great through the day as long as it is bright enough. I need to know how to charge the batteries to keep them from going below the 12v and stopping the inverter from shutting off . Thanks Gary.

[@cleversolarpower]

I have made a video on sizing the charge controller. I also recommend checking out my video about sizing a solar system. That will help you choosing the right amount of solar panels.

[@dleon0902]

Is it not the load is the one that dictates the power needed? If the Load is a 700W Microwave, then a 100AH, 12v battery is sufficient. If your load will require 3K Watts, yes, then more batteries are needed like you stated.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, the load indicated the power draw. But if you have a 3000W inverter, you have to wire and fuse for a 3000W load.

[@robertmunoz8510]

@@cleversolarpower what happens if you have a 3000w inverter but only wire and fuse for 2000 w ?

[@Ralphm64]

Great video and extremely useful! Thank you 🙏

[@perlarsen3645]

Wauw. A very instructive video, explained even so dummies like me understand it. Thank you

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@DGHamblin]

He is wrong in so many ways. Please do not follow his advice.

[@perlarsen3645]

@@DGHamblin You might want to elaborate?

[@IH-nr7dx]

​@@DGHamblinSadly this comment is not very useful even if it were true. A constructive comment would explain why and give examples of erroneous statements, formulas, etc.

[@adao2025]

Thanks, excellent information. I just ordered your book from Amazon👍

[@mongwithmochieblog]

Thank you for sharing sir can you give me a complete set up. Diagram and use materials for solar power for small house around 2000 watts thank you.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, I have a design service available on my website for $200.

[@geraldocarvalho6]

I'm getting the book. Great video, thank you

[@dangeary2134]

Interesting. I was a trucker, OTR. Made my own coffee in a standard 12 cup coffee maker. Four commercial 12v batteries had enough juice, with the truck shut off, to make an entire pot off of a 3500 watt inverter, and still have enough juice in the batteries to start the truck. Knowing this, four batteries on a different setup, with a 10 amp charger was more than enough to make the coffee, and keep the batteries charged I had a second 3500 watt inverter to power a mini fridge. Since that was intermittent, I didn’t have to worry about the batteries running dry. I also would run a 750 watt microwave once or twice a day in this setup. I could charge these batteries by the charger on a land hookup, by the engine, or by a small 1200 watt generator holed up to the charger. The 1200 watt generator was enough to power a small window air conditioner, which cooled the small RV quite handily. 2 ga wires in parallel were more than enough to hold all this current, but each of the inverters had their own wires. I should have tried solar panels to see if I could have used the panels without an outside source of power to see if it was sustainable. I didn’t use a whole lot of power, so it should have been enough to keep things going.

[@cleversolarpower]

It depends on the load that is attached to the batteries. If your inverter is 3500W, but the load is only 1000W then it's different. This video is about showing how many batteries you need with a 3000W load.

[@brucekeen7100]

Really appreciated the simple and easy to understand video. My question is if I'm running a 3,000 watt pure sine inverter for our off grid cabin. You recommend 3 12.8volt 100ah lithium batteries. Could I use 4 100ah batteries, and would that be a benefit? Also, if I use 4 batteries, should I increase the inverter to say 3,500 watts or higher? Cheers, Bruce.

[@cleversolarpower]

As you saw, i don't recommend using 12V system with 3,000W inverter. But you can if you have to. I recommend getting two 200Ah 12V batteries instead. Wiring 4x 12V 100Ah batteries in parallel is too many wires. You don't need to increase the inverter. The inverter size is based on your load. Do you really need 3,000W? Because your wires sizes need to scale up as well.

[@brucekeen7100]

I appreciate your quick reply and we would need enough power to run the basics in our 2 bedroom townhouse. This would only be in the event of a grid down situation, cyber attack, and any longer term outage. The main need is running our natural gas furnace, hot water tank, and keeping the fridge and freezer going. We live up north where winters can get down to -30C, and we don't have a fireplace or wood stove. But then we have the occasional use of our TV, computer. It's definitely an interesting and challenging topic to research. Cheers.

[@Maqsood-j7n]

Thanks for guarding us I need your help I am buying inverter V24 5000/10000W can you tell me which good batteries and how many do I need this . thanks again Maqsood London UK

[@maxheadroom8677]

Hello Nick, this channel has great videos thanks. I have a question please. When you size battery/solar panel & charge time what happens if the load is on & used when the battery is being charged? I thought calculations are based on 'no load' conditions but with an off-grid system, it is used even when the battery is being charged. Can you please explain how using the load will or will not impact the charge time. I appreciate your response please.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you have 100W coming in from solar, and you have a 200W load, then 100W will be coming from the battery. In off-grid design we do not calculate it that way. We have total daily power going in the battery and total daily power going out of the battery, then with 3 days of autonomy. Meaning that the battery has to last for three days without any power coming in.

[@ravanabrahmarakshas4263]

very useful. thanks. i certainly buy your book before wiring these solar cells

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks for your support!

[@Fred-y8w]

Great podcast,thank you.

[@saudgr]

Thank you very much. I learned a lot watching this video. 🌹

[@PraiseDog]

He did leave one thing out in my battery manual. For parallel the batteries are also cross connected as well as having a cable to the bus bar. Why I could only speculate, but I expect there is a reason for it.

[@cleversolarpower]

Parallel is all positives together and negatives together. No crossing. I wonder what battery brand you have.

[@micahthompson3762]

Appreciate the thorough video. I do have two questions... other than slight operational efficiency, should the number of batteries be tied to the load? Also to further clarify, if I have a 5000W inverter, but only using it to power my LED lights, is such inverter draining my batteries much quicker, then say if I were using a 3,000W inverter? Thanks for the reply.

[@cleversolarpower]

- The batteries should be size according to the size of your inverter's max load draw. This includes the C-rate, wires and fuse sizes. - A 5,000W inverter will have a higher standby consumption than a smaller one. So, yes.

[@a64738]

With 4 100Ah 100A lifepo4 batteries and my 3000w 24v inverter I can use an electric oven with 2 cooking plates and electric oven with all 3 at full power at same time. And I can keep it running like that until the batteries is empty which will take 1,5 to 2 hours as I do not know the exact power usage of the electric oven. LifePo4 is the way to go for high power usage.

[@claver99]

@a64738 how do you connect your battery bank reason being I have 4x12v 100ah lithium batteries and a 3000w 24v inverter.So I wondering if you would like to explain how you did it.

[@burningbright5039]

@@claver99you have to connect all your batteries to each other…you have solar panels and a controller unit too?? Yeah they make tiny cables to connect the batteries to each other

[@aspcas01]

We bought a 3000W Renogy inventor with our new RV (we have 600W solar). The dealership installed 2) 100amp lithium batteries. After watching your video, we can see those were the wrong size batteries. We have had the RV for 6 months now, and still can not run the invertor. Although, we know we should upgrade now to 2) 170mph batteries, when we do hook up to shore power, the inverter is staying on and we have burnt up 2) 400W fuses. Literally, melted. We do not understand why we can not turn the invertor off when we are hooked up to shore power. It's almost like too much power is coming through the invertor when we are on shore power. The batteries are located under our bed because they were too big in size to fit under the entry steps to the RV. The dealership located in a different state, paid our local RV repair shop to fix their mistake. After our local shop worked on it, we have the same issue. What do you think is happening? Shouldn't we have the option to turn the inverter off when we are hooked up to shore power? It's quite unsettling to have fuses burn up while under the bed!

[@cleversolarpower]

Having two 12V 100Ah batteries in parallel is not bad for a 3000W inverter, it's just a little short of being 'ideal'. It depends on how the wiring is done. If you use the inverter, it will still draw from the battery. You can have a plug installed or a transfer switch. I recommend taking a look at my system diagrams, here on the channel or on my websites homepage. If you reply to this comment please do so through email because i won't see your reply here.

[@arlendavis]

You are stating the minimum number of batteries needed, but you can connect as many batteries as you want or as many batteries that can be connected together according to the manufacture of the batteries you choose to use. I would connect as many as possible so as to get the greatest run time possible. Space to put them may also be a limiting factor.

[@Flexusthelexus]

If I am using 4 100ah batteries and wiring as you have described, do I need to increase the 350amp fuse from the bus bar to the inverter? Also is the 125amp breaker n the positive post necessary when you bms protects the battery at 140amps?

[@taniagollan]

Perfect video for me! I need to see the math written out to fully understand it. Thank you!!

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jonagoc]

The best video ever!! thanks for explaining! :)

[@Sylvan_dB]

Inverters also have a surge capacity, and if your batteries and wiring are inadequate you won't get the promised surge capacity. I also would not plan to run the batteries at their maximum amperage. I recommend a 25% margin for every battery added in parallel. (75% of each means 2 can do 150% of one, 3 can do 225% of one, etc)

[@einfelder8262]

If your inverter has surge capacity and your battery(s) also can handle the surge, you would blow your fuse if you use the fuse size specified in the video. Unfortunately, as good as the video is, no mention was made of this very real issue.

[@cleversolarpower]

No, wires can handle the surge capacity for a few seconds. While they are not sized for the surge it is no problem for them to handle a surge of a pump. If factories had to size their cables to the surge current then it would be much more expensive. It's not done this way. I worked as electrician a in a factory.

[@cleversolarpower]

No, there is a difference between surge capacity of a fuse and the short circuit current of a fuse. Mega fuses can handle many times their rated current for a few seconds. This is called the time-current curve. They are called slow blow fuses, used for starting inductive loads. You also have fast acting fuses for circuitry.

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@cleversolarpower wires can handle it, but with low voltage DC the voltage drop becomes critical even with short cables. 1v drop might be too much.

[@cleversolarpower]

@@Sylvan_dB Voltage drop is something else. It can happen. That means you are running too much power from your battery. Solution -> more capacity.

[@mammad919]

You dramatically forgot about the TIME. Batteries reserve energy, which is time times power. Battery capacity unit is Amber's.hour. You know the applicable formula.

[@hoodiedee4828]

Thank you very much for your time and information. Have a blessed day and don't forget to Enjoy Life

[@olbluetundra881]

The higher the input voltage on your unit the better. I run 48vdc input on my eg6. I also have 4 480w 48v solar panels on the roof. Built my own 48vlto batteries with 200amp bms. My batts are 245ah each. I even built a buzzer for when my voltage gets down 11.9 volts. This way i never really completely drain my lto. It's in my 8x12 portable shop trailer. This sits on top of my old champion 4550 gen that's been converted to run on propane. Mind you it's need a couple more batteries. Especially when I run the rooftop ac. Lights, cordless tool chargers and even my pancake compressor has no issues keeping up. Im building a capacitor bank to install and try out on the bigger loads to see if will help out.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, increasing the voltage of the battery bank has many advantages. I made a video about 12V,24V or 48V. Increasing the voltage of the solar panels as well as it reduces voltage drop over long distances (up to max input voltage of the mppt).

[@Mix1mum]

I put some supercaps in parallel with my batteries and they absolutely help. The shock they absorb is like they're 75% of a soft starter, but that's enough for me to start my table saw. I only need the generator to weld, I know I could wire my batteries up to 36v hook up electrodes and main line an arc but Im assuming that'd wipe my batteries stupidly fast. I mean, I coooould do it, I run old heavy solid state gear, the kind so full of copper it could kill ya if it fell on you... so I'm not worried about my equipment at all, just draining the batts

[@adifferentworld404]

@cleversolarpower I have a question I run a 24v system with a 3000 Mulitplus 3000 24v inverter how many batteries would I need lead acid or lithium?

[@realToby]

I have the same 3000w 12v renogy inverter but i am limited to the 3 AC outlets which are Max 1800w(or 120v 15A) combined i think. I would need to use the hardwire output with at least 12awg cable to achieve the full 3000W.

[@troydorame890]

Thank you you're an excellent instructor

[@cleversolarpower]

Trying my best ✌

[@RogueOntheRoad]

What I discovered is to supply enough current it is good to use the battery in parallel. The current rating using lifepo4 battery is greater than the actual available current rating. My battery is rated at 200 amps BMS but it can only provide 150 amps continuous. By placing equal battery in parallel The current available will be 300 amps.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you have been sold a 200A BMS and only get 150A out if it, you have been scammed 😬. Which brand?

[@javaman2883]

So you actually have a 150A BMS which allows for a short term "peak current" of 200A. The BMS is rated at continuous current. Anything higher, like peak current or other short term current specification is just there because marketing likes bigger numbers.

[@MovieBeasty]

Renogy Inverter come with cables. CCA and not copper. So putting 300amps through aluminum cables is dodgy. They have more resistance and they break easily.

[@Not_Sure_]

@2:56 That's for just 1:00 hour right ? If you need to use that much power for 12 hours you need 12x the battery. Right ?

[@Knife_Collector]

I have a 100ah battery, and planning on adding another one. I am only using it for power outages, to power wifi, laptop, a one or two small LED light and charging cellphones, and to make neighbors wonder how I still have power.. All together I think it come to less than 300 watts, and I have a 500 and a 2500 watt inverter, both at a 85% efficiency, so does it matter which one I use?

[@cleversolarpower]

I like the reason to make the neighbors wonder 😄 if the 500W can run it then use the 500W because the 2500W will have a higher idle power consumption. However, if you don't like noise, then i recommend using the 2500W because it circuit board will be cooler so the fans don't kick in as much as the smaller one. But you have to size your wires for the full 2500W and it will be more expensive. Well, you don't have to but i recommend it. Maybe you want to run a microwave on it as well.

[@morganchandler5126]

Depends on the load

[@user-chris_zervakis]

simple rules explained well in this video thanks

[@camielkotte]

I installed a 24v (8 x eve 280k blocks) with fcao 3000 watt inverter. I go up to 2500watt, never Max out your system. Keep the overhead. The c rate of my battery is 0.5C meaning i can draw half of the 280 amps continuously which is 140 amps at 24 volt. The c rate is specified by the manufacturer. Not by KZbinrs.

[@cleversolarpower]

Standard charge/discharge for LF280K is 0.5C, Continuous charge/discharge is 1C, pulse charge/discharge is 2C. Check the datasheet for your cells. Also depends on the BMS you have.

[@javaman2883]

The purpose of the fuse is to protect the wire, which it may not do with two feed wires. If one wire gets a loose connection, gets damaged, etc, then all the current will go through your second wire. Since the 350A fuse will not blow, the 300A going through one 205A rated wire will cause excessive heat and potentially fire. Your two feed wires from the bus bar to the inverter should each have a fuse, say 180A, to protect that single wire.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, thats a mistake on my end when drawing the diagram. I will update it in the description.

[@briangannon3984]

Is it possible to run a wind turbine thru its own 12v rectifier controller and then take that output and splice it in parallel with a 12v solar circuit and then just use a 12v solar charge controller. Or should I go ahead and purchase a hybrid charge controller with a dump load. My solar will only be 12v @ 400w and my wind turbine is rated 400w peak 500w

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't know anything about wind energy because they are not worth it for small systems.

[@jonzkiecopy4267]

thank you so much.. this is very informative.

[@sinanyalvac8998]

If you solve that question, I will appreciate that. I have a system with 8x100 watt solar panels, 4x 12 Volt Lithium batteries, and 4000 watt inverter. I am confused about the fuses and wires. Can you give me a short answer and How efficiently my system can run some fridges and little electronics? Thanks, Nick.

[@cleversolarpower]

There is no short answer for this sorry. I recommend checking out my video about wire sizing and about fuse sizing. Or my beginners playlist.

[@kennedy67951]

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge with me. You didn’t mention using Diodes and fast actings resettable FUSES Either.😮Why?

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't like resettable fuses for DC. Most of them are trash. I do like breakers for AC though from respectable brands. Why would you use diodes?

[@kennedy67951]

@ Diodes would stop any power from shorting your system out. It’s for just more safety in the system.

[@KevinVinal]

How about using an booster pack an inverter an set booster pack on charge in the out put line it charges it self an continuously runs supposably

[@cleversolarpower]

I have no idea what you mean.

[@rapidraga]

Such a valuable video. Thank you so much!

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad you liked it!

[@paulsuttie4080]

Switch to a 6 v marine battery lead acid system four batteries in series and parallel The larger size allows for more storage capacity unloading over a longer time span . If you wire each pair in series and parallel to the inverter series makes the two batteries 12 v and running pos and neg in parallel off each pair provides the inverter with sustainable load capability. Hundred amp alternator and a dual battery charge switch network

[@craiggambetta694]

Isnt the actually wattage that you are drawing relevant in this situation. You may have a 3000w inverter but your appliances may only add up to 1800w??

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes that is important. But you should always size for the highest possible current draw in the system. That is the correct way to wire your system.

[@davecarter34]

2 x 135ah in parallel on my 3000w inverter works well, even better now i have 000awg 400amp cable from battery bank to inverter, the old 100amp cable would warm up and inverter beep when running heat gun on high

[@cleversolarpower]

The voltage drop over the small cable was likely too high for the current, so resistance increases = heat. The inverter would have sensed the lower voltage and turned off. All inverters have a min-max voltage range they operate on.

[@peteroffpist1621]

Very nice instructions, great many thanks.

[@01spikyspider007]

this information is a great help

[@allangibson8494]

Depends on the size of the battery… Earthmovers use a pair of 1500Amp/hr 12V batteries for starting. (The diesel fire pumps where I work also use two of them on each of the two redundant start circuits (and they are replaced every three years)). Your cable sizing calculations are wrong too because the current flow is not evenly split between two cables - 75% is the recommended assumption. BTW 120mm2 cables is easily available from welding supply stores…

[@cleversolarpower]

Starting batteries are not the same as solar (deep-cycle) batteries.

[@allangibson8494]

@ These are so large that the difference is irrelevant… 20Amps is a trickle charge to these batteries. Deep cycle batteries also aren’t designed for mobile applications…(less shock resistance).

[@NedumEze]

Thanks for the Video. Sorry, could you share what the c-rating for the Lithium battery is? Please.

[@cleversolarpower]

Usually 1. But it depends on the BMS. Most BMS have 100A rating. In case of 12V 100Ah, this is one c. But if you have 12v 200Ah, then with a 100A BMS, you can still draw 100A max. Some companies have larger battery bmses called plus.

[@NedumEze]

@@cleversolarpower Thank you very much sir.

[@LuciusCanada]

Due to the update 2, would you recommend using 2 MRBF fuse of 200A for the main fuses or keep the 2 MEGA fuses? Thank you

[@Chris-ut6eq]

What is the source of wire current draw rating? Also, with the two wire system, what happens if one of the wires has an issue and is not able to handle the intended load? As an extreme example, let's say it was not properly crimped and was disconnected (or someone forgot to hook it up when servicing the system).

[@cleversolarpower]

The current ratings of the cables can be found on the sellers page which i have linked in the description. Ideally you will have to fuse every wire separately.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

@@cleversolarpower Thank you for the information. Something to keep in mind that the vendor's ampacity numbers are far greater the US NEC (National Electrical Code). Perhaps there are standards for industrial cabling that allow this. The only claim this amazon maker states is SAE J1127, but the cables do not state a J1127 insulation type and there are no markings stamped on the cable shown in the picture. Also keep in mind J1127 seems to be for vehicle starter battery cables and not for sustained amperage in uses like an inverter. Starter battery use case is very short duration, high amperage vs inverter use case of high amperage for extended times. If I had to guess this is welding cable and while the description claims J1127 it's not backed up in anyway by evidence. Also the max amp numbers seem grossly overstated. The only reference I could find for max amps is on the mcmaster-carr site for J1127 cables. I do not have access to the standard itself as it costs $$. While these welding cable may work for the application, they seem non-conforming to any standards so they are unknowns without more data and proof of certification. These feel like rebranded imported cables being sold by a US company. I did look at manufacturers website and no additional info found.

[@SomeCrazyVids]

Thanks for the video. At 9:45 you mention that each battery should be fused before it's connection to the bus bar. I have a victron MPII 3KVA (2400w) 48v inverter with 2x 5kw 100Ah batteries in parallel, using 50mm2 cable. Currently not using a bus bar, but instead connecting from the positive of the top (first) battery and the negative of the bottom (last) battery to a dual pole 125a NH gBat fuse (both the position and negative cables) which then connects to the inverter. I know this isn't optimal in comparison to your examole of using a bus bar, such as the lynx power in. But my question is this: Must I install a 125a fuse from each battery to the bus bar? As you said that this prevents a current shift in the event of one of them failing. Then, install another 250a fuse after the bus bar (between it and the inverter) accounting for the 100ah from each battery x2 + 25% safety?

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't think it's required by code, but it's something I would add. In your case I would suggest using an MRBF fuse on the terminal of each battery. They are quick to install.

[@SomeCrazyVids]

​@@cleversolarpowerI watched your section about the MRBF fuses in kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ68ipeiipqkmqMsi=hRJwc4ROpT1yb7KB. However you state that they should not be used in a 48V system which mine is

[@cleversolarpower]

@@SomeCrazyVids The Icc (short circuit current capacity) of an MRBF is 2000A @48V. It should not be used in high current systems as a main fuse. But since you will fuse every battery separate, the ICC will be limited to 100Ah*10=1,000A Icc. Which the MRBF fuse can handle. It could even handle both of your batteries because they will have: 2x100Ah*10=2,000A short circuit current. But that would be on the edge. Hope this makes it clear.

[@javaman2883]

Yes. When dealing with batteries with high current capacity, it becomes important safety precaution to use a fuse on each wire. Would you rather use a $10 fuse on each wire or have a fire?

[@jefflucas_life]

11:18 48v/100a, just what i needed for my AIO 3500W example.

[@cobravids]

I have to add to this, the equation is correct in theory. However, the 3 batteries will only supply that wattage for 1 hour. So anytime you are working up your off grid power you have to add in the ammount of time you want to run that potential voltage. When my solar power stops supplying power my wind turbine keep it going. Howver when the sun is down and there is no wind you are on battery only. So, when doing your calculations only account 25% of each battery. So if i was to design the system in this video i would probably be up to about 12 to 14 batteries for a nights worth of power supply. 100ah means it can run 100 amps for one hour. 25ah means 25 amps it will run for 4 hours. So multiply that by how many hourse and amperage you need. Do a ton of research, when dealing with off grid power more battery is always better. But match your solar grid to match the recharge rate in your normal sunshine day. Hope this helps.

[@krslavin]

I would use 12V (fully discharged) as the nominal battery voltage - you may want to run the inverter until that voltage is reached. So the power is greater or equal to 1200W per battery.

[@javaman2883]

Right, to supply the output power, the input current will go up as the charge level voltage goes down. It is good design to size input wires based on that higher current draw when charge is low.

[@arwood111]

You earned a subscribe, thank you!

[@simonallan9941]

Im using 10 AGM deep cycle batteries = 1650ah and have absolutely no problem powering my 6000w inverter or 3000w, but it depends what I'm running from the inverter, like my oven to bake bread, the heater or welder hot water cylinder etc will flatten batteries faster, but powering 2x deep freezers lights and TV etc batteries last a week almost, without sunlight on the solar panels

[@cleversolarpower]

I assume each battery is 165Ah @12V. the max current you should draw is 165Ah*0.2C=33A. If you have an oven, it can draw 3000W (random estimation). 3000W/0.9=3333W drawn on the input of the inverter. 3333W/12V=277A. Then divide by 10 batteries in parallel= 27A. So your batteries will be fine. I don't recommend to use 12V because of the large wire sizes. If you had a 48V system, the wires sizes could be much smaller.

[@simonallan9941]

​@cleversolarpower thanks awesomely 👌 and thanks for sharing your great experience and experiments 🤗

[@wes326]

Really depends on what you want to power and for how long.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, a 3,000W inverter doesn't consume 3,000W, but it's still possible to have a 3,000W load, so that's why we must size according to 3,000W.

[@mattgillard8253]

Thanks, Nick Great video.

[@sphillips6357]

Hi, I'm still very new at this. I undrstand (I think) how to calculate the batteries and wire needed if I know the rating of the inverter. But what inverter do I need to run a 1500 watt 120vac load from sundown to sun-up?

[@cleversolarpower]

1500W/0.9=1666W at inverter input * 8 hours = 13,333Wh per day. Off grid design says 3 days of autonomy, 13,333Wh*3days=40,000Wh or 40kwh battery = 8 server racks (48V). Recharge the battery in one day: 40,000Wh/3 sunhours on average = 13,333W of solar panels. cost of batteries: $10k+ $6.6k solar = $16.6k for batteries and solar add an EG4 off grid inverter 6000XP ($1400) + additional charge controller $500. so expect to pay $20k for this.

[@jjames5475]

Can I Connect 3 SAME 12 Volt Batteries In Parallel to 1 Solar Charge Controller " Renogy 40 Amp " .. Thank You for your help 🙏

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes

[@MasterChief4U]

One problem with using buss bar to combine all the batteries. You don't get the benefit of combining the BMS. As you can take 2x 100ah batteries with 100a BMS and get 200a BMS. Just by using the negative off one battery and the positive off the other to complete the circuit..

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't recommend series for this reason as well. I have a video about it coming soon. Parallel with higher voltage battery is preferred.

[@MasterChief4U]

@@cleversolarpower Not what I posted. If you're running 2x 12v 100ah BMS.. And using a 2000 watt inverter. You need to run negative off one battery and the positive off the other. To combine the 2 BMS to create one 200ah BMS.. If not the Inverter will shut down of blow a fuse. This rule only applies to 2x 12v 100ah Batteries with 100ah BMS. As 200ah Batteries come with a 200ah BMS already. Some cheaper ones are 150ah BMS which I would avoid..

[@1GREATDANE]

RENOGY 3000 Watt Inverter is a Sour Purchase and Collects Dust here now, 4 RENOGY 200ah AGM Batteries barely Feeds It what It Needs with 4/0 Premium Wire and 300amp Buss Bars - I see Myself Selling It Soon and have opted for 24 Volt Victron Energy Inverters and Lithium Batteries now and in the Future.

[@cleversolarpower]

Good choice 😉

[@erroneouscode]

I've been running the RENOGY 3000w inverter with 4x100ah RENOGY batteries in my 4x4 ute for over 2 years. When it's parked up at home it runs all refrigeration and computers in the house 24/7 and occasionally more when the suns out. I haven't had any issues with their gear. The batteries get charged via 2.6Kw of solar panels on the shed roof via Victron controllers. The batteries and inverter are wired much as Nick showed except the MRBF fuses are 100amp as with 4 batteries feeding a 3000w inverter they are never going to see 100amp drawn from a single battery. People wonder why some choose to stick with 12v particularly with recreational vehicles. The answer is simple. It's a pain in the backside trying to deploy enough solar panels out in the field with high enough VOC to charge a 24 or 48V battery system. Connecting multiple panels in series is impractical when camping. Then there is the huge expense of 12v-48v DC-DC chargers to take alternator current from a 12v system. Typically such DC-DC chargers are 3x the price of a 12v version. Or the alternative option of fitting a 24-48v alternator if space can be found in the engine bay. Then there's all the 12v camping appliances that now need buck converters. The 4/0 cable is only needed between the inverter, fuse for it, and Buss Bars. That's not a huge expense that those that advocate 48v continually bring out in discussions when compared to the additional cost of dedicated 48v gear and buck converters etc.

[@1GREATDANE]

@@erroneouscode 4 RENOGY 200AH AGM Batteries was tried here with 1200 Watts of Solar and saw 50% Depth of Discharge way too often to Leave IT commissioned here on The Ranch

[@erroneouscode]

@@1GREATDANE Fair enough. But curious what made you even consider using AGM these days, especially with a 3000w inverter? What did you find wrong with the inverter?

[@1GREATDANE]

​@@erroneouscodeIt was Hungry and AGM Batteries are Best above 50% DOD and a Whole Ranch Kitchen was more than It could Handle at Night, TV and Internet Router, and few lights and Well Pump. Going 24 Volt I was able to Double My Solar Array and using 4 - 280ah CHINS LiPo4 with 200ah BMS paired up in 24 Volt Packs Works well with Victron Battery Balancers and Buss Bars and Correctly Fuses and 4/0 Cables to WZRELB 24 Volt 3000 Watt Inverter.

[@rogerhamberg1266]

Is the wiring size dimensioning charts in your book stated with both awg(US) and mm2(Europe)? I dont like to convert between the two systems.

[@cleversolarpower]

I mainly work with awg, but there are mm2 values as well included.

[@g-whiz286]

Not that it changes your calculation much (+6.25%), but I would have used 12 volts instead of 12.8 volts because a LiFePO battery can produce lots of power at 12 volts (3v/cell) for quite a long time before it knees over and dies. This increases the maximum current from 260 amps to 278 amps, but you have enough margin in your wire and fuse selection to accommodate this.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, that would have been better.

[@martyn52]

Wow great video. Had me baffled most of the time. Not done any of this stuff before. How can I get the chart for cable sizes please. I have 2 48 volt lifelong batteries. They were on a pallet truck. I want to use these on a solar system. Any words of advice. Would be much appreciated. Thanks Martyn

[@cleversolarpower]

I have linked the cables in the description. You can find the table in the product images of the linked cable. These are manufacture specific, so do not use these for other cables.