How Many 12V Batteries for 3000W Inverter

[@cleversolarpower]

FREE diagrams: cleversolarpower.com UPDATE 1 : at 14:30 I used the wrong formula. It should be Capacity=Current/C-rate -> 250A/0.2C=1,250Ah. UPDATE 2: at 6:40 you should fuse every cable with a 200A fuse instead of one 350A fuse. My Best-Selling book: cleversolarpower.com/off-grid-solar-power-simplified Cables: amzn.to/3XbLfhn 12V 100Ah Battery: amzn.to/3MgFdWw 12V 200Ah Battery: amzn.to/3SYwtYI MRBF fuse holder: amzn.to/3X0bmqc MRBF fuse: amzn.to/4dXFNV5 300A busbar: amzn.to/4dR4Zwj MEGA fuse: amzn.to/3AyrYht

[@Romeo1800]

I think there is still something wrong with calcs: 250A is the invtr max amps, C rate applies to batt amps not inverter amps: batt amps is 20A. So is it Inverter amps/C rate, or batt amps/C rate?

[@Romeo1800]

BTW, I am using 4- 6vdc Fullriver AGM batteries with a GoPower 3000W inverter. I installed the new AGM's yesterday, but was trying to chk, beforehand, if 4 batts would work with the 3000W inverter.

[@jacobvastenhoud2456]

😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@jacobvastenhoud2456]

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@QuyHo-l8l]

@@Romeo1800 kích 3000w 12v bao tien

[@SoundzAlive1]

Thank you, you have explained things much clearer than most other channels. All you explanations and designs translate perfectly for boats where it is critical to get it right. André in Sydney

[@nobody1841]

Sailboat life (15 yrs) - my 329w hi output panel outperforms 500+ watt regular panels. I use 4 6v golf cart bats for total of 450 amp hrs. I often see the panel output 63+ volts and 20amp input from the Victron 30amp controller. I run a Victron inverter, and as a photographer I use calibrated monitor, computers, external drives, battery charging for many devices, etc. Add the frig, lights, 8 fans, a real hifi stereo, blender, water pumps, shower sump pumps and the batteries are usually floated back down by noon. Next time I'm going lithium, maybe add another panel. Maybe not. It's the high output panels that make it possible. Otherwise there would be many solar panels needed. If my sailing grounds weren't in FL, Bahamas, I would definitely need more panels, no doubt.

[@johnconrad5487]

AMAZING... 4X 6v BATTERIES = 24V. Does your Victron Boost the voltage from 24V to 63+ Volts and you have all those other loads connected and running at the same time. Add the frig, lights, 8 fans, a real hifi stereo, blender, water pumps, shower, sump pumps??????????????

[@nobody1841]

@johnconrad5487 Let's see if I can help understand this better. Goal is a 12v system. First concept in this is to double the volts. Then double the amps. Rule - when connecting batteries, we can either double the amps, or we can double the volts. We need to do both. We start w four 6v bats, 225amp each in this example. First, We want to connect two 6v bats in serial. We connect them pos to neg, which will create one 12v battery. Do the same w the other two batteries. Now we have created two 12v batteries at 225amps each. We have doubled the voltage but not the amps. Each set of two has one remaining pos post and one neg post. Next we connect them in parallel by connecting pos to pos and neg to neg. This has now doubled the amps to 450amps in a 12v battery bank. The charge controller manages the power input (solar panel). The panel can be 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 , whatever. Using the app, we tell the controller unit what our system voltage is. In my case it's 12v because my fridge fans and lights are all 12v. I hope this helps. Edit: The charge controller does more than manage the power coming into the system. It also manages the charging of the batteries so they don't over charge. These charge settings are peculiar to batteries by brand. The settings are obtained by visiting the battery brand website.

[@RichDzintars]

@@nobody1841 Hello, I am trying the same with the 6 volt golf cart batteries that will give me 12 volts at 450 amps. I already have these batteries past use. Nick, has advised only 100 amps max in his video and email asking about this. How many watt inverter are you using? I am trying to to use a Renogy 3000 watt inverter. How long has your system been active? Rich

[@nobody1841]

@RichDzintars I've been running 12v system using 6v batteries for 14 years. Using Victron controller MMPT 100/30 and 1200 Victron inverter. If I'm going to wet vac or run heavy saws I use the generator because I don't like to stress the batteries hard. Usually get about 6-7 years. Next time I'm going lithium LiFePO4 because they are finally ready for prime time. Take note, 6v batteries in the 12v system are full at at 2.7v (12v bats full at 13.4). So when you wake up and they show 12.2 - it is no big deal. The rule is, when the bats lose 1 whole volt, they are 1/2 gone and close to being useless. This means 12v batteries would be in trouble at 12.2v overnight.

[@toddstanley3619]

Overall this is a great video and very informative. Understanding types of batteries is important. Lead acid standard car batteries are not the same as lead acid deep cycle. Deep cycle batteries are used in heavy equipment, commercial diesel trucks, and marine applications. 13 lead acid batteries is standard car batteries. If using marine or big truck 12 volt deep cycle the 4 is minimum 6 is good, 8 is best when talking about stored power. Deep cycle like LiPo discharges at a slower rate over time. Standard car batteries discharge quickly.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed. Most people don't consider the c rates of different types of batteries .

[@wilty5]

As a beginner , I appreciate your your thorough and detailed explanation of the solar system setup. Thanks

[@perlarsen3645]

Wauw. A very instructive video, explained even so dummies like me understand it. Thank you

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@DGHamblin]

He is wrong in so many ways. Please do not follow his advice.

[@perlarsen3645]

@@DGHamblin You might want to elaborate?

[@nordic5490]

I have one of these in my camping car, plus 2x 120AH Kings 12V LFP batteries in parallel. Works great. I upgraded my alternator, and charge these LFP batteries @ 90A. Works great, too easy. This inverter has a very quiet fan that is rarely even audible. I can recommend it hightly. It also has a UPS function. The relay will switch from mains to inverter power in 30ms. Buy it.

[@cleversolarpower]

I will ask renogy to send me an inverter.

[@1GREATDANE]

RENOGY 3000 Watt Inverter is a Sour Purchase and Collects Dust here now, 4 RENOGY 200ah AGM Batteries barely Feeds It what It Needs with 4/0 Premium Wire and 300amp Buss Bars - I see Myself Selling It Soon and have opted for 24 Volt Victron Energy Inverters and Lithium Batteries now and in the Future.

[@cleversolarpower]

Good choice 😉

[@erroneouscode]

I've been running the RENOGY 3000w inverter with 4x100ah RENOGY batteries in my 4x4 ute for over 2 years. When it's parked up at home it runs all refrigeration and computers in the house 24/7 and occasionally more when the suns out. I haven't had any issues with their gear. The batteries get charged via 2.6Kw of solar panels on the shed roof via Victron controllers. The batteries and inverter are wired much as Nick showed except the MRBF fuses are 100amp as with 4 batteries feeding a 3000w inverter they are never going to see 100amp drawn from a single battery. People wonder why some choose to stick with 12v particularly with recreational vehicles. The answer is simple. It's a pain in the backside trying to deploy enough solar panels out in the field with high enough VOC to charge a 24 or 48V battery system. Connecting multiple panels in series is impractical when camping. Then there is the huge expense of 12v-48v DC-DC chargers to take alternator current from a 12v system. Typically such DC-DC chargers are 3x the price of a 12v version. Or the alternative option of fitting a 24-48v alternator if space can be found in the engine bay. Then there's all the 12v camping appliances that now need buck converters. The 4/0 cable is only needed between the inverter, fuse for it, and Buss Bars. That's not a huge expense that those that advocate 48v continually bring out in discussions when compared to the additional cost of dedicated 48v gear and buck converters etc.

[@1GREATDANE]

@@erroneouscode 4 RENOGY 200AH AGM Batteries was tried here with 1200 Watts of Solar and saw 50% Depth of Discharge way too often to Leave IT commissioned here on The Ranch

[@erroneouscode]

@@1GREATDANE Fair enough. But curious what made you even consider using AGM these days, especially with a 3000w inverter? What did you find wrong with the inverter?

[@1GREATDANE]

​@@erroneouscodeIt was Hungry and AGM Batteries are Best above 50% DOD and a Whole Ranch Kitchen was more than It could Handle at Night, TV and Internet Router, and few lights and Well Pump. Going 24 Volt I was able to Double My Solar Array and using 4 - 280ah CHINS LiPo4 with 200ah BMS paired up in 24 Volt Packs Works well with Victron Battery Balancers and Buss Bars and Correctly Fuses and 4/0 Cables to WZRELB 24 Volt 3000 Watt Inverter.

[@owolabiadeteye5919]

Thanks for time taken to prepare and deliver this insightful lecture. Great one boss

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@daves1646]

Thank you for the reminder that we can use multiple smaller gauge wires to carry the high current loads from each battery!!! Much easier than working with 4/0 wiring. On why 12v batteries, I started with a system to supply my RV with DC power first, and used 12V a Lithium battery systems because 24 or 48v system would need a DC-DC converter to supply ALL 12v DC needed by the RV for lights, propane heater, fans, water pump, 12v refrigerator and all of the DC controls for other appliances. Most DC converters have poor efficiency so there is a lot of heat/energy loss to power all the DC devices in the RV. Then ….. we decide we want to expand our system to add an inverter for occasional use of AC appliances like a microwave oven or charging laptops/tablets/phones/etc and don’t want to replace our 12v battery bank.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you are going to split the wires up, they need to be minimum 1/0 (55mm²) each. If you split the 4/0 cable into two cables, they each need to be fused and be minimum 1/0, but in your case you need 2/0 minimum.

[@khieusovannara2281]

It's well explaint and love to watch it but I'm not electrician, very little understand about wire and connection

[@UmpTSquat]

Nick, I am late watching this. I learned quite a bit from you in this video. Thank You. You explained things in a very easy to understand video. I have watched hundreds of hours of videos. I don't remember seeing it explained in this manner. Thank You again. I have subscribed. I'll go back and watch your other videos.

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks for the sub!

[@angrydutchman8590]

Really awesome instructional videos . . . thank you! As a newbie to solar generated power, the 48v system you diagrammed in the video is very appealing. However, I am wondering if you might either, 1: add an addendum video on how to calculate needed solar panels to charge the EG4 battery, or 2: simply respond with the number needed and the calculation used to arrive at the required number. Thanks and keep up the great work!

[@cleversolarpower]

i have made a video about how many solar panels you need.

[@professorg8383]

So, I'm looking to create an emergency fall back system. Un other words, to only use in a power failure. So, limited use and probably around 1500 watts continuous, but capable of up to 3000 watts potential for fairly short periods. (maybe 10 minute or so) I have an old 36 volt golf cart using (6) 6 volt lead acid batteries. It was originally a resistive type controller, but I converted it t a solid state motor controller. It works very well and is a very clean conversion. The batteries I use are typical golf cart batteries rated at 110 watt hours. There are a few 36 volt inverters out there, but they are pricey. When I redid the system, I used larger cables and bolted connections. I have the controller fused at 300 amps. The controller is programmable and I can tune it to adjust performance and can also use the software to monitor performance. I run it in a moderate mode and mostly on flat terrain. My goal was to make it perform better and be less harder on the batteries. I have a few years of the batteries and they are in good shape. They run cool in my usage and I rarely need to add water. I believe the conversion I did worked very well and overall battery life should be better than original. A potential option when I need to replace the batteries, is to switch to 8 volt batteries for a 48 volt system. The controller I have can run on 48 volts and the motor can also operate at 48 Volts, giving me a bit more top end speed. In retrospect, I probably should have made that change when I did the conversion. But I would have needed a different charger, When I need to replace batteries I'm considering using (6) 8 volt lead acid or possibly reconfiguring the battery box and going with Li Fe Po4 batteries and a new charger. and retuning the controller for 48 volts. The nice thing about this approach is it would make using the cart as a quick, plug in 48volt inverter system. My goal is to provide emergency power to my barn/shop. The shop uses a pretty typical 100A 120/240 volt 3 wire system. I don't use too much 240 volt appliances, with the biggest draw being a 240 electric water heater and occasional use powder coat oven. I could run my water pump at 240 volt but currently use 120volt. Other than that, I have a couple welders and a plasma cutter that can run on 240 volts or 120.volts. Asl have an office AC and 240 volt electric heater. All my lighting is LEDs. My thinking is to not use any of the 240 loads in this emergency configuration. My average load using only the 120 volt is under 1500 watts. I'm not looking to go off grid, but just a quick way to power limited usage during a power outage. Power outages of a couple hours is not uncommon and I do have a portable gasoline generator I use on extended outages. I use a small transfer panel now, with the generator, And I have a smaller propane generator that only outputs 120V and is set up for extension cord use. It's a bit quicker to set up for limited use. Outages in the winter are the worst because often the weather is bad and getting the generator set up is unpleasant! But I have this little powerhouse of the golf cart, parked in my shop! I'm trying to figure out a quick set up use of it in my back up plans. In the winter, having lights, being able to run the pellet stove and some small loads, I'm an electrical engineer and all the switching/isolation stuff is in my wheelhouse. but I don't have much experience with LiFePo4 batteries. I think the use of the golf cart a a power source, has some real potential. I know a lot of people who have electric carts and I'm wondering if anyone has done this. And am curious to get ideas. Likewise, for the with EVs, think about being able to utilize that energy source as emergency back up power. If you live in the country like I do, you probably face fairly frequent outages. A whole house automated back up generator would be nice, but they're a big investment. An electric golf cart is a nice energy storage source and EVs would provide an even larger storage source. I would appreciate any thought or comments.

[@cleversolarpower]

I recommend using lifepo4 batteries, they are much cheaper. Check my recent video where i compared to an AGM battery. If you are going to use a 48V system, you should wire 48V batteries in parallel, not 12V batteries in series. I also made a video about that recently.

[@Detour4it]

You know your science, and your videos are detailed and a great help.👍

[@freedomisfromtruth]

Very good explanation but you need to tell them that a battery of certain capacity will run the inverter for less amount of time if rated smaller. A 1500W capacity battery will still run the inverter 30min. if the 3000w is close to being used. Capacity is time dependent. More capacity the longer it will run it.

[@cleversolarpower]

Of course, but that isn't the point of this video 😉

[@Detour4it]

Been waiting patiently and it arrived today! What an amazing book(.) You've managed to put together a presentation of solar that (so far, from what I've read) is the best explanation on paper that I've experienced, and I've read through alot of books. Well worth the money. People contemplating solar will find this book 99% of the make it happen. Love it. 🫵👍👊

[@cleversolarpower]

Thank you kindly!

[@timkat630]

The book is excellent !!

[@ColumbusDixon]

Thanks

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks Columbus, I appreciate the support!

[@Sylvan_dB]

Inverters also have a surge capacity, and if your batteries and wiring are inadequate you won't get the promised surge capacity. I also would not plan to run the batteries at their maximum amperage. I recommend a 25% margin for every battery added in parallel. (75% of each means 2 can do 150% of one, 3 can do 225% of one, etc)

[@einfelder8262]

If your inverter has surge capacity and your battery(s) also can handle the surge, you would blow your fuse if you use the fuse size specified in the video. Unfortunately, as good as the video is, no mention was made of this very real issue.

[@cleversolarpower]

No, wires can handle the surge capacity for a few seconds. While they are not sized for the surge it is no problem for them to handle a surge of a pump. If factories had to size their cables to the surge current then it would be much more expensive. It's not done this way. I worked as electrician a in a factory.

[@cleversolarpower]

No, there is a difference between surge capacity of a fuse and the short circuit current of a fuse. Mega fuses can handle many times their rated current for a few seconds. This is called the time-current curve. They are called slow blow fuses, used for starting inductive loads. You also have fast acting fuses for circuitry.

[@Sylvan_dB]

@@cleversolarpower wires can handle it, but with low voltage DC the voltage drop becomes critical even with short cables. 1v drop might be too much.

[@cleversolarpower]

@@Sylvan_dB Voltage drop is something else. It can happen. That means you are running too much power from your battery. Solution -> more capacity.

[@a64738]

With 4 100Ah 100A lifepo4 batteries and my 3000w 24v inverter I can use an electric oven with 2 cooking plates and electric oven with all 3 at full power at same time. And I can keep it running like that until the batteries is empty which will take 1,5 to 2 hours as I do not know the exact power usage of the electric oven. LifePo4 is the way to go for high power usage.

[@claver99]

@a64738 how do you connect your battery bank reason being I have 4x12v 100ah lithium batteries and a 3000w 24v inverter.So I wondering if you would like to explain how you did it.

[@burningbright5039]

@@claver99you have to connect all your batteries to each other…you have solar panels and a controller unit too?? Yeah they make tiny cables to connect the batteries to each other

[@kabandajamir9844]

The world's best teacher thanks sir

[@Daddypawo59]

good teacher

[@paulywally1957]

I see what you're saying and how it looks like it all adds up but I have been running a 200 amp hour battery Bank lithium and a 3000 watt pure sine inverter to run my induction cookware my induction oven and every other appliance and have never had an issue. I even run an air conditioner that is an indoor one for my RV that vents out the window and it runs that fine too.

[@stahpit1971]

Pretty sure he's giving recommended usage. You are always free to burn your stuff up just make sure children and pets can be rescued safely.

[@cleversolarpower]

You can even use a 5000W inverter on a 12V battery, but that doesn't mean it's good design choices. I'm making people aware that there are better design options.

[@JimSmith-q4o]

How long will your system run of the battery’s?

[@alwardslab8732]

nice, but i miss time in the ecuation... most uses are solar, so they will need an 8h buffer for the night, which means more batteries, also account for bad weather as in fog days, where batteries do not replenish.

[@cleversolarpower]

I have videos about that. Search my channel for load analysis.

[@rl5271]

Great explanation and much appreciated!

[@dleon0902]

Is it not the load is the one that dictates the power needed? If the Load is a 700W Microwave, then a 100AH, 12v battery is sufficient. If your load will require 3K Watts, yes, then more batteries are needed like you stated.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, the load indicated the power draw. But if you have a 3000W inverter, you have to wire and fuse for a 3000W load.

[@dangeary2134]

Interesting. I was a trucker, OTR. Made my own coffee in a standard 12 cup coffee maker. Four commercial 12v batteries had enough juice, with the truck shut off, to make an entire pot off of a 3500 watt inverter, and still have enough juice in the batteries to start the truck. Knowing this, four batteries on a different setup, with a 10 amp charger was more than enough to make the coffee, and keep the batteries charged I had a second 3500 watt inverter to power a mini fridge. Since that was intermittent, I didn’t have to worry about the batteries running dry. I also would run a 750 watt microwave once or twice a day in this setup. I could charge these batteries by the charger on a land hookup, by the engine, or by a small 1200 watt generator holed up to the charger. The 1200 watt generator was enough to power a small window air conditioner, which cooled the small RV quite handily. 2 ga wires in parallel were more than enough to hold all this current, but each of the inverters had their own wires. I should have tried solar panels to see if I could have used the panels without an outside source of power to see if it was sustainable. I didn’t use a whole lot of power, so it should have been enough to keep things going.

[@cleversolarpower]

It depends on the load that is attached to the batteries. If your inverter is 3500W, but the load is only 1000W then it's different. This video is about showing how many batteries you need with a 3000W load.

[@jefflucas_life]

11:18 48v/100a, just what i needed for my AIO 3500W example.

[@olbluetundra881]

The higher the input voltage on your unit the better. I run 48vdc input on my eg6. I also have 4 480w 48v solar panels on the roof. Built my own 48vlto batteries with 200amp bms. My batts are 245ah each. I even built a buzzer for when my voltage gets down 11.9 volts. This way i never really completely drain my lto. It's in my 8x12 portable shop trailer. This sits on top of my old champion 4550 gen that's been converted to run on propane. Mind you it's need a couple more batteries. Especially when I run the rooftop ac. Lights, cordless tool chargers and even my pancake compressor has no issues keeping up. Im building a capacitor bank to install and try out on the bigger loads to see if will help out.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, increasing the voltage of the battery bank has many advantages. I made a video about 12V,24V or 48V. Increasing the voltage of the solar panels as well as it reduces voltage drop over long distances (up to max input voltage of the mppt).

[@Mix1mum]

I put some supercaps in parallel with my batteries and they absolutely help. The shock they absorb is like they're 75% of a soft starter, but that's enough for me to start my table saw. I only need the generator to weld, I know I could wire my batteries up to 36v hook up electrodes and main line an arc but Im assuming that'd wipe my batteries stupidly fast. I mean, I coooould do it, I run old heavy solid state gear, the kind so full of copper it could kill ya if it fell on you... so I'm not worried about my equipment at all, just draining the batts

[@RogueOntheRoad]

What I discovered is to supply enough current it is good to use the battery in parallel. The current rating using lifepo4 battery is greater than the actual available current rating. My battery is rated at 200 amps BMS but it can only provide 150 amps continuous. By placing equal battery in parallel The current available will be 300 amps.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you have been sold a 200A BMS and only get 150A out if it, you have been scammed 😬. Which brand?

[@javaman2883]

So you actually have a 150A BMS which allows for a short term "peak current" of 200A. The BMS is rated at continuous current. Anything higher, like peak current or other short term current specification is just there because marketing likes bigger numbers.

[@uupyerkilt]

Thank you so much as this is exactly the system I have been looking to install in our small travel trailer.

[@cleversolarpower]

Then I failed trying to explain that a 3kw inverter on a 12V system is not ideal.

[@uupyerkilt]

@@cleversolarpower My trailer is already wired with 12-volt solar, It has 1 100-watt panel and 1 75-ah lead acid battery. I am removing the lead acid and installing 2 lithium LI Time 100ah batteries and adding 2 more 100-watt panels. The travel trailer is only 16 feet long, so to go to 48v seems like more money and not necessary.

[@gavgene371]

After watching this i followed with an instant subscription, thank you easy to follow and very informative 👍

[@realToby]

I have the same 3000w 12v renogy inverter but i am limited to the 3 AC outlets which are Max 1800w(or 120v 15A) combined i think. I would need to use the hardwire output with at least 12awg cable to achieve the full 3000W.

[@Forevertrue]

Very helpful and useful presentation. Exactly what I was looking for.

[@PraiseDog]

He did leave one thing out in my battery manual. For parallel the batteries are also cross connected as well as having a cable to the bus bar. Why I could only speculate, but I expect there is a reason for it.

[@cleversolarpower]

Parallel is all positives together and negatives together. No crossing. I wonder what battery brand you have.

[@javaman2883]

The purpose of the fuse is to protect the wire, which it may not do with two feed wires. If one wire gets a loose connection, gets damaged, etc, then all the current will go through your second wire. Since the 350A fuse will not blow, the 300A going through one 205A rated wire will cause excessive heat and potentially fire. Your two feed wires from the bus bar to the inverter should each have a fuse, say 180A, to protect that single wire.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, thats a mistake on my end when drawing the diagram. I will update it in the description.

[@Purinelz]

thank you very much for taking time and answering that question. for the pure Factor you took time to answers questions I have just subbed into your Channel

[@DGHamblin]

To someone who knows nothing about electricity, it sounds like you know what you are talking about, but you don't. The problem appears to be that you are unaware of the limitations of your knowledge. You are unaware of what you need to know, but don't know. You know a little bit, but not enough to be giving advice like this. For example a 100ah battery does not automatically send 100 amps. It will produce 1 amp for 100 hours or 100 amps for 1 hour or 200 amps for 1/2 hour. This is why your bolt on fuse protecting each battery should be properly sized, usually 175 amps for each battery. Same with watts. A 1240 watt hour battery can produce 1240 watts for an hour, or 124 watts for 10 hours or 2480 watts for 1/2 hour. The number of batteries needed for a system depends on the total amount of power needed before the system is charged again, not on these calculations you made.❤ Additionally, the wire size needed is based on the amps flowing through tthe wires not the amp hours of the battery. A 100ah battery does not automatically send 100amps output through the cables. It could be more, but is more likely to be less. In addition, the amps that a cable or wire can carry is dependent on the cable length. The longer the cable or wire, the fewer amps it can safely carry. Also you should not run multiple cables to carry a load, you should have one properly sized cable. The calculations are far more complicated than you think. Someone should, at a minimum, purchase a good book which explains all of this before building their own system. Otherwise they will put themselves at risk of a fire or worse, or they could end up wasting money on vastly oversized wires, too many batteries, etc.

[@cleversolarpower]

I see what you are trying to say, but you make it more complicated than it needs to be. I recommend watching the video again. You will see that i size the cables according to the potential maximum current going through the wire with a 3,000W inverter. You need to be aware of the C-rating of the battery (that's what this video is all about).

[@camielkotte]

I installed a 24v (8 x eve 280k blocks) with fcao 3000 watt inverter. I go up to 2500watt, never Max out your system. Keep the overhead. The c rate of my battery is 0.5C meaning i can draw half of the 280 amps continuously which is 140 amps at 24 volt. The c rate is specified by the manufacturer. Not by KZbinrs.

[@cleversolarpower]

Standard charge/discharge for LF280K is 0.5C, Continuous charge/discharge is 1C, pulse charge/discharge is 2C. Check the datasheet for your cells. Also depends on the BMS you have.

[@mongwithmochieblog]

Thank you for sharing sir can you give me a complete set up. Diagram and use materials for solar power for small house around 2000 watts thank you.

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, I have a design service available on my website for $200.

[@JohnBraman413]

nice breakdown on how many batteries to use a 3000w inverter. now next video should be how many solar panels to maintain those batteries.

[@cleversolarpower]

Checkout my video about sizing a solar system.

[@JimSmith-q4o]

@@cleversolarpower

[@Bazza1968]

Or what to get to grid/mains charge them if used without solar as a house backup system?

[@Scarlet-Worm]

Thanks, excellent information. I just ordered your book from Amazon👍

[@saudgr]

Thank you very much. I learned a lot watching this video. 🌹

[@davecarter34]

2 x 135ah in parallel on my 3000w inverter works well, even better now i have 000awg 400amp cable from battery bank to inverter, the old 100amp cable would warm up and inverter beep when running heat gun on high

[@cleversolarpower]

The voltage drop over the small cable was likely too high for the current, so resistance increases = heat. The inverter would have sensed the lower voltage and turned off. All inverters have a min-max voltage range they operate on.

[@hoodiedee4828]

Thank you very much for your time and information. Have a blessed day and don't forget to Enjoy Life

[@simonallan9941]

Im using 10 AGM deep cycle batteries = 1650ah and have absolutely no problem powering my 6000w inverter or 3000w, but it depends what I'm running from the inverter, like my oven to bake bread, the heater or welder hot water cylinder etc will flatten batteries faster, but powering 2x deep freezers lights and TV etc batteries last a week almost, without sunlight on the solar panels

[@cleversolarpower]

I assume each battery is 165Ah @12V. the max current you should draw is 165Ah*0.2C=33A. If you have an oven, it can draw 3000W (random estimation). 3000W/0.9=3333W drawn on the input of the inverter. 3333W/12V=277A. Then divide by 10 batteries in parallel= 27A. So your batteries will be fine. I don't recommend to use 12V because of the large wire sizes. If you had a 48V system, the wires sizes could be much smaller.

[@simonallan9941]

​@cleversolarpower thanks awesomely 👌 and thanks for sharing your great experience and experiments 🤗

[@geraldocarvalho6]

I'm getting the book. Great video, thank you

[@krslavin]

I would use 12V (fully discharged) as the nominal battery voltage - you may want to run the inverter until that voltage is reached. So the power is greater or equal to 1200W per battery.

[@javaman2883]

Right, to supply the output power, the input current will go up as the charge level voltage goes down. It is good design to size input wires based on that higher current draw when charge is low.

[@mikehammond5248]

Below Update 2, you state we could use 200 a. fuse in lieu of 350 a. single fuse at the two parallel conductors. So use 200 a. fuse for each separate wire or could I use a 200 a. two pole conduct with both wires connected? This parallel conductors helps so wire is smaller and easier to work with. A 200 amp two pole / phase breaker could also be used for both wires connected to (12 v. DC)? I think I have watched all of oyur videos more than once. They are so educational, informative & easy to follow!!! Thanks for all you have done and continue to do for us off griders! The book helps a lot too! Mike

[@cleversolarpower]

Hello Mike, you need two 200A fuses. One for every cable. Thanks for your support! 🙏

[@allangibson8494]

Circuit breakers are superior to fuses in all applications. The issues are they drop 1V at full load and they need to be rated for DC load breaking.

[@Ralphm64]

Great video and extremely useful! Thank you 🙏

[@morganchandler5126]

Depends on the load

[@troydorame890]

Thank you you're an excellent instructor

[@cleversolarpower]

Trying my best ✌

[@allangibson8494]

Depends on the size of the battery… Earthmovers use a pair of 1500Amp/hr 12V batteries for starting. (The diesel fire pumps where I work also use two of them on each of the two redundant start circuits (and they are replaced every three years)). Your cable sizing calculations are wrong too because the current flow is not evenly split between two cables - 75% is the recommended assumption. BTW 120mm2 cables is easily available from welding supply stores…

[@cleversolarpower]

Starting batteries are not the same as solar (deep-cycle) batteries.

[@allangibson8494]

@ These are so large that the difference is irrelevant… 20Amps is a trickle charge to these batteries. Deep cycle batteries also aren’t designed for mobile applications…(less shock resistance).

[@micahthompson3762]

Appreciate the thorough video. I do have two questions... other than slight operational efficiency, should the number of batteries be tied to the load? Also to further clarify, if I have a 5000W inverter, but only using it to power my LED lights, is such inverter draining my batteries much quicker, then say if I were using a 3,000W inverter? Thanks for the reply.

[@cleversolarpower]

- The batteries should be size according to the size of your inverter's max load draw. This includes the C-rate, wires and fuse sizes. - A 5,000W inverter will have a higher standby consumption than a smaller one. So, yes.

[@user-chris_zervakis]

simple rules explained well in this video thanks

[@maxheadroom8677]

Hello Nick, this channel has great videos thanks. I have a question please. When you size battery/solar panel & charge time what happens if the load is on & used when the battery is being charged? I thought calculations are based on 'no load' conditions but with an off-grid system, it is used even when the battery is being charged. Can you please explain how using the load will or will not impact the charge time. I appreciate your response please.

[@cleversolarpower]

If you have 100W coming in from solar, and you have a 200W load, then 100W will be coming from the battery. In off-grid design we do not calculate it that way. We have total daily power going in the battery and total daily power going out of the battery, then with 3 days of autonomy. Meaning that the battery has to last for three days without any power coming in.

[@Fred-y8w]

Great podcast,thank you.

[@jonagoc]

The best video ever!! thanks for explaining! :)

[@cobravids]

I have to add to this, the equation is correct in theory. However, the 3 batteries will only supply that wattage for 1 hour. So anytime you are working up your off grid power you have to add in the ammount of time you want to run that potential voltage. When my solar power stops supplying power my wind turbine keep it going. Howver when the sun is down and there is no wind you are on battery only. So, when doing your calculations only account 25% of each battery. So if i was to design the system in this video i would probably be up to about 12 to 14 batteries for a nights worth of power supply. 100ah means it can run 100 amps for one hour. 25ah means 25 amps it will run for 4 hours. So multiply that by how many hourse and amperage you need. Do a ton of research, when dealing with off grid power more battery is always better. But match your solar grid to match the recharge rate in your normal sunshine day. Hope this helps.

[@scrappydont2478]

car stereo amp kits have 00 cables with very fine cpper wires and fuse holders and crimp on connectors but lead acid batteries have one advantage is they can handle heat and cold l ion can't a lot of off grid people have their battery bank outside so heat and cold is a factor .

[@cleversolarpower]

True. Now there are lifepo4 batteries with low temperature protection and integrated heating pads to keep the battery above freezing.

[@brucekeen7100]

Really appreciated the simple and easy to understand video. My question is if I'm running a 3,000 watt pure sine inverter for our off grid cabin. You recommend 3 12.8volt 100ah lithium batteries. Could I use 4 100ah batteries, and would that be a benefit? Also, if I use 4 batteries, should I increase the inverter to say 3,500 watts or higher? Cheers, Bruce.

[@cleversolarpower]

As you saw, i don't recommend using 12V system with 3,000W inverter. But you can if you have to. I recommend getting two 200Ah 12V batteries instead. Wiring 4x 12V 100Ah batteries in parallel is too many wires. You don't need to increase the inverter. The inverter size is based on your load. Do you really need 3,000W? Because your wires sizes need to scale up as well.

[@brucekeen7100]

I appreciate your quick reply and we would need enough power to run the basics in our 2 bedroom townhouse. This would only be in the event of a grid down situation, cyber attack, and any longer term outage. The main need is running our natural gas furnace, hot water tank, and keeping the fridge and freezer going. We live up north where winters can get down to -30C, and we don't have a fireplace or wood stove. But then we have the occasional use of our TV, computer. It's definitely an interesting and challenging topic to research. Cheers.

[@g-whiz286]

Not that it changes your calculation much (+6.25%), but I would have used 12 volts instead of 12.8 volts because a LiFePO battery can produce lots of power at 12 volts (3v/cell) for quite a long time before it knees over and dies. This increases the maximum current from 260 amps to 278 amps, but you have enough margin in your wire and fuse selection to accommodate this.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, that would have been better.

[@wilfredopicos3812]

Ola en tu libro sale esta tabla de los cables

[@i-love-space390]

An if you use 3000W for your devices, it will last less than an hour and totally drain the batteries. So for more capacity or power time, you will need a multiple of this equivalent to the number of hours you want to supply power.

[@KevinVinal]

How about using an booster pack an inverter an set booster pack on charge in the out put line it charges it self an continuously runs supposably

[@cleversolarpower]

I have no idea what you mean.

[@sinanyalvac8998]

If you solve that question, I will appreciate that. I have a system with 8x100 watt solar panels, 4x 12 Volt Lithium batteries, and 4000 watt inverter. I am confused about the fuses and wires. Can you give me a short answer and How efficiently my system can run some fridges and little electronics? Thanks, Nick.

[@cleversolarpower]

There is no short answer for this sorry. I recommend checking out my video about wire sizing and about fuse sizing. Or my beginners playlist.

[@taniagollan]

Perfect video for me! I need to see the math written out to fully understand it. Thank you!!

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad it was helpful!

[@BrentLeVasseur]

The problem is that all transformers are symmetrical, which means you can only have a maximum theoretical efficiency of 100% where the maximum output is equal to input power minus losses. However, with an asymmetrical design, it is theoretically possible to have more output power than what you put into it. This isn’t ‘free energy’ but good design, as all energy for everything, including the grid comes from the zero-point vacuum. Without that energy from the vacuum, there would be no electrons and no protons and no neutrons. They would simply stop spinning and cease to exist. That fact that electrons never lose their charge and never stop spinning, is proof that vacuum energy exists.

[@myinterests5573]

Zero point energy is at best only a theory, at worst a total scam.

[@Zelaznogsiul-63]

Can you plug it to your car and start the engine?

[@wes326]

Really depends on what you want to power and for how long.

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, a 3,000W inverter doesn't consume 3,000W, but it's still possible to have a 3,000W load, so that's why we must size according to 3,000W.

[@peteroffpist1621]

Very nice instructions, great many thanks.

[@SqueekyBums]

I've got this exact inverter. Should have researched by better / seen this before buying. Running off two 130 leasure batteries, and you get to microwave one meal before the low battery alarm sounds. Useless in a motorhome setting 😢

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, something i forgot to mention. If a large load is placed on lead-acid batteries, the voltage will drop. The inverter will shut down because it thinks the batteries are empty. While in fact, the load is too large for the batteries.

[@a64738]

With 4 100Ah 100A lifepo4 batteries and my 3000w 24v inverter I can use an electric oven with 2 cooking plates and electric oven with all 3 at full power at same time. And I can keep it running like that until the batteries is empty which will take 1,5 to 2 hours as I do not know the exact power usage of the electric oven. LifePo4 is the way to go for high power usage.

[@SqueekyBums]

@@a64738 Agreed. 24v is better as the cable gauge can be reduced. Lithium can be run flat, unlike lead acid, but the price! Looking at a 12v 280ah lithium from eco-worthy for £500. I'll be selling the inverter and buying a 1000w. Hardly use it anyway, and mainly to charge laptops etc. My inexperienced thought was, 'if buying one, may as well have the extra watts just in case'.

[@SomeCrazyVids]

Thanks for the video. At 9:45 you mention that each battery should be fused before it's connection to the bus bar. I have a victron MPII 3KVA (2400w) 48v inverter with 2x 5kw 100Ah batteries in parallel, using 50mm2 cable. Currently not using a bus bar, but instead connecting from the positive of the top (first) battery and the negative of the bottom (last) battery to a dual pole 125a NH gBat fuse (both the position and negative cables) which then connects to the inverter. I know this isn't optimal in comparison to your examole of using a bus bar, such as the lynx power in. But my question is this: Must I install a 125a fuse from each battery to the bus bar? As you said that this prevents a current shift in the event of one of them failing. Then, install another 250a fuse after the bus bar (between it and the inverter) accounting for the 100ah from each battery x2 + 25% safety?

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't think it's required by code, but it's something I would add. In your case I would suggest using an MRBF fuse on the terminal of each battery. They are quick to install.

[@SomeCrazyVids]

​@@cleversolarpowerI watched your section about the MRBF fuses in kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ68ipeiipqkmqMsi=hRJwc4ROpT1yb7KB. However you state that they should not be used in a 48V system which mine is

[@cleversolarpower]

@@SomeCrazyVids The Icc (short circuit current capacity) of an MRBF is 2000A @48V. It should not be used in high current systems as a main fuse. But since you will fuse every battery separate, the ICC will be limited to 100Ah*10=1,000A Icc. Which the MRBF fuse can handle. It could even handle both of your batteries because they will have: 2x100Ah*10=2,000A short circuit current. But that would be on the edge. Hope this makes it clear.

[@javaman2883]

Yes. When dealing with batteries with high current capacity, it becomes important safety precaution to use a fuse on each wire. Would you rather use a $10 fuse on each wire or have a fire?

[@01spikyspider007]

this information is a great help

[@MasterChief4U]

One problem with using buss bar to combine all the batteries. You don't get the benefit of combining the BMS. As you can take 2x 100ah batteries with 100a BMS and get 200a BMS. Just by using the negative off one battery and the positive off the other to complete the circuit..

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't recommend series for this reason as well. I have a video about it coming soon. Parallel with higher voltage battery is preferred.

[@MasterChief4U]

@@cleversolarpower Not what I posted. If you're running 2x 12v 100ah BMS.. And using a 2000 watt inverter. You need to run negative off one battery and the positive off the other. To combine the 2 BMS to create one 200ah BMS.. If not the Inverter will shut down of blow a fuse. This rule only applies to 2x 12v 100ah Batteries with 100ah BMS. As 200ah Batteries come with a 200ah BMS already. Some cheaper ones are 150ah BMS which I would avoid..

[@rapidraga]

Such a valuable video. Thank you so much!

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad you liked it!

[@wilfredopicos3812]

Grasias muy informatibo tu video

[@cleversolarpower]

Thanks!

[@a64738]

I needed 4 LifePo4 batteries that can provide 100A each to run a 3000w inverter at full power at 12v or 24v or 48v....

[@johncampbell2311]

Basic 1 battery for every 1000w if 12 volts battery. But better off with 1 battery for every 500w so 6 battery but it last even longer if go with 1 battery for every 250 w so 12 battery at 12 volt if all battery are 100 ah. If 200 ah then back down to 6 battery and if 400 ah back down to 3 battery.

[@kennedy67951]

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge with me. You didn’t mention using Diodes and fast actings resettable FUSES Either.😮Why?

[@cleversolarpower]

I don't like resettable fuses for DC. Most of them are trash. I do like breakers for AC though from respectable brands. Why would you use diodes?

[@kennedy67951]

@ Diodes would stop any power from shorting your system out. It’s for just more safety in the system.

[@arwood111]

You earned a subscribe, thank you!

[@wascalywabbit]

I'm just doing one Redodo 100ah battery, 200w of solar. What I'm using it for... Charge rechargeable lights. Phone. Rechargeable mini TV and radio. A 12v Burton lunchbox cooker. A 1qt crock pot. Cheap Duralast 100w 110v outlet that just plugs in. Of course, I'm not doing everything at once.. Just a 12v plug with 2 usb ports. For a fuse,I'm just using the 15 amp car fuse that came with the power outlet. This is my,the world gone to 💩 and need just enough to make it bearable for survival.

[@mattgillard8253]

Thanks, Nick Great video.

[@terrentech]

14:15 should us 3,333 not 3,000 in calculation

[@jotawski]

👍👌 สุดยอดครับ ขอบใจมากครับ

[@cleversolarpower]

I'm in Thailand at the moment. Thank you.

[@kevinm7523]

It's interesting that this video popped up now, I'm with 5 other people dealing with hurricane Helene, after a few days, 1 of the guys who doesn't understand ANYTHING about electricity went out and bought a 3000w inverter from tractor supply. His reasoning: it was expensive, so it must be good. He had 1 old 24v lead acid battery, it worked for a few minutes to run a TV, but then the battery ran out so he thought the inverter was bad, he returned the inverter and spent nearly 30 minutes complaining the second inverter was bad also. I had to stop him and attempt to explain basic electrical theory

[@cleversolarpower]

Indeed, bigger isn't always better. Great case study, just because they make such an inverter doesn't mean you should buy them. Then inverter should support the load.

[@garyprice5375]

Hi thanks for sorting my issues for working out how to run my Renogy 3000w inverter with all the wires,Can you help me with how to Power the Batteries, I have a 200w solar panel that works great through the day as long as it is bright enough. I need to know how to charge the batteries to keep them from going below the 12v and stopping the inverter from shutting off . Thanks Gary.

[@cleversolarpower]

I have made a video on sizing the charge controller. I also recommend checking out my video about sizing a solar system. That will help you choosing the right amount of solar panels.

[@sixshooter4570]

Great job.

[@LuciusCanada]

Due to the update 2, would you recommend using 2 MRBF fuse of 200A for the main fuses or keep the 2 MEGA fuses? Thank you

[@NedumEze]

Thanks for the Video. Sorry, could you share what the c-rating for the Lithium battery is? Please.

[@cleversolarpower]

Usually 1. But it depends on the BMS. Most BMS have 100A rating. In case of 12V 100Ah, this is one c. But if you have 12v 200Ah, then with a 100A BMS, you can still draw 100A max. Some companies have larger battery bmses called plus.

[@NedumEze]

@@cleversolarpower Thank you very much sir.

[@jjames5475]

Can I Connect 3 SAME 12 Volt Batteries In Parallel to 1 Solar Charge Controller " Renogy 40 Amp " .. Thank You for your help 🙏

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes

[@MarkButler-rb8cz]

most people don't use 3k watts and the 1s that do have a 6k watt inverter so a 3k watt inverter only needs 2 lithium 12 volt batteries to run 1.5-2k watts if you run more than that I would double up to 4 12 volt batteries. lead acid deep cycle you need 4 for 1.5k to 2k watts any more than that double up so 8 for 4k+watts

[@Chris-ut6eq]

What is the source of wire current draw rating? Also, with the two wire system, what happens if one of the wires has an issue and is not able to handle the intended load? As an extreme example, let's say it was not properly crimped and was disconnected (or someone forgot to hook it up when servicing the system).

[@cleversolarpower]

The current ratings of the cables can be found on the sellers page which i have linked in the description. Ideally you will have to fuse every wire separately.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

@@cleversolarpower Thank you for the information. Something to keep in mind that the vendor's ampacity numbers are far greater the US NEC (National Electrical Code). Perhaps there are standards for industrial cabling that allow this. The only claim this amazon maker states is SAE J1127, but the cables do not state a J1127 insulation type and there are no markings stamped on the cable shown in the picture. Also keep in mind J1127 seems to be for vehicle starter battery cables and not for sustained amperage in uses like an inverter. Starter battery use case is very short duration, high amperage vs inverter use case of high amperage for extended times. If I had to guess this is welding cable and while the description claims J1127 it's not backed up in anyway by evidence. Also the max amp numbers seem grossly overstated. The only reference I could find for max amps is on the mcmaster-carr site for J1127 cables. I do not have access to the standard itself as it costs $$. While these welding cable may work for the application, they seem non-conforming to any standards so they are unknowns without more data and proof of certification. These feel like rebranded imported cables being sold by a US company. I did look at manufacturers website and no additional info found.

[@michaeldill7620]

Agm batteries? Same as lead acid? Two 100 amp hour?

[@cleversolarpower]

Yes, they fall under the same type. AGM and GEL.

[@jimnunya1253]

3 lithos = 13 la 😮😢 Interesting. I have 2x 100Ah, each is currently on separate inverters. 1x has a 2kw inverter, the other a 400w. The 400w inverter I use for smaller stuff that doesn't cause it's fan to start running and it's just used more as backup and cellphone charging. The 2000w inverter is for everything, but I bought it to run my microwave, but I haven't run my fat wires yet nor am I ready to add my microwave in yet either! 😅 It's not easy to work on this stuff inside of a vehicle when you're already living in it completely.😢

[@cleversolarpower]

You don't need an inverter for cell phone charging. You can use a 12VDC to 5VDC USB converter.

[@whydotheathensrage]

Good to know, thanks for your insight.

[@cleversolarpower]

Glad you like it!

[@glynnjenkins1026]

what about the charge controller?

[@TonvanderReijken]

super explanation thanks very much !

[@CarlJBier]

Great video - Thanks. Question: can you recommend a solar controller? I have (3) 12/100V batteries in parallel, as you outlined in the video. and (2) 400 watt pannels. What controller would you recommend?

[@cleversolarpower]

Victron is great. Otherwise Epever makes good controllers as well.

[@cabdiibraahim]

Can I connect 2 different voltage batteries building 12v Eg. I have 200v and 150v Only I want add the Ah which means 350Ah

[@cleversolarpower]

You got things switched up. It's not volts it's capacity or amp hour. You can add different capacities in parallel. I have made a video about it as well.

[@peterchang7646]

I'm thinking about building a 4s3p LiFePO4 battery with 25Ah cells. These are Topband Prismatic cells and have a 3C continuous discharge rating, 5C - 10 second rating.... This would make a 12.8V 75Ah battery with a max continuous discharge of 225A. This would give a max discharge of 2880Watts. I am hoping maybe to use it with a 2000W inverter. These cells were originally designed for a electric forklift. Does that C rating seem plausible?

[@cleversolarpower]

I recommend getting he regular 280Ah 3.2V cells. I recently got a quote for $45/piece. 1C with this cell is 280A. I don't recommend having cells in parallel because it wont get balanced properly. The C-rating can be plausible, however i don't know because you didn't tell me the name of it.