Replacing All of My Distance Drivers for 2024!! | Beginner Disc Golf Tips

[@bobbydavis1725]

the fact that Bodanza keeps selling out his initial stamps from Infinite should be a big blinking sign about the value of creators to disc golf manufacturers

[@Simple.Human.]

Bodanza's channel was a perfect fit with Infinite Discs. Factor in that he's not just a content creator anymore and will be playing some DGPT stops this year makes his situation a bit different.

[@bobbydavis1725]

@@Simple.Human. Yes, but his value right now is because of his channel and his content, and that side of things. Plenty of dudes with a 1000 rating that don't have sponsorships.

[@seymourglass26]

To be fair, Robbie also sold out his stamps really fast (and has way more subscribers), but nobody bothered to restock the Robbie discs. I would have loved to have been lucky enough to snag the owl stamp on a Wraith or Pig, but I wasn't fast-enough.

[@ericwalter2944]

I think this take is misguided. Most manufacturers are running out of money and are unable to grow in pro sponsorship marketing. Instead they are dangling a carrot to content creators so they can turn old customers into new fans so they can sell new plastic today. The bubble has popped and manufacturers aren’t willing to say it out loud yet.

[@seymourglass26]

​@@ericwalter2944Well, let's talk about money and support. Do you think it's easier recover an investment when you print some custom stamps for a KZbin Dude who lives at home and works on content with a fanbase that's declared itself though the statistics of subs and views or investing in a touring pro with a lot of direct competition (literally) who has a ton of extra expenses and fewer outside sources of income?

[@RykerKeath]

Please try the Lat64 Grace as a wraith replacement!

[@johnpolidan3892]

As a new older player. 75% of discs (28) were bought because of Robbie C, Bodanza, and Foundation.

[@platypus8697]

I once didn’t bag a wraith for a couple weeks….never again. To me it’s the perfect driver that can’t be replaced.

[@inmitch]

Okay Robbie, I think I already knew this but I just decided you are my favorite disc golf KZbinr. This particular video was very ASMR for me. Thanks.

[@Kayla7Kira]

Apologies if I missed this in the video, but why Trilogy vs DGA or Discmania or MVP or someone? Are there plans to look at distance drivers from different manufacturers (or midranges etc if you do those too)?

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Excellent question. So what I didn't want the video to come across as is "BURN INNOVA DOWN WITH THEM!!" Just wanted to make sure I wasn't continuing to overvalue a company that doesn't want to return the favor. I've literally got a Pig tattooed on my body, hahaha so Pigs and Polecats aren't going away anytime soon so Innova still have a presence in the bag! So going through my bag I was looking at companies that are already represented in other slots. For mids I've got multiple MVP molds in there already, so I wanted to go a different direction for drivers. My fairways are almost all Discraft, so Nukes and Forces were off the table. DGA could have been a solid option, honestly some folks may not know I had a few months where I bagged Trilogy exclusively before joining Team Innova. So I had probably 10 different Raiders already in my collection, so I thought why not give them another chance! Hopefully that makes sense outside my wacky brain!

[@Kayla7Kira]

@@RobbieCDiscgolf That all makes great sense and a neat reason to pick trilogy for this. Thank you for explaining. I love listening to you go through things like this because your mind works a lot like mine does and hearing that explanation gives me another point of reference for going through my own bag.

[@stratonrye]

@@RobbieCDiscgolfI'm glad you explained this. I was just about to comment that you should try my favorite driver, the Scorch, as a Flippy 11 speed.

[@NickCarroll]

You're hitting on many of the reasons I'm switching to more of an open bag as a content creator. It's not that I'm dissatisfied with the discs I currently use, but they're all one brand, and part of the fun of this sport is the variety of disc options to choose from. I'm a recreational disc golfer, so I'm fully aware of the audience that relates to that skill level, so I've decided to lean into it. 🙂

[@benistoneman9737]

I agree with why your doing this. It is more fun to watch someone who may throw the same as I do. I love westside discs but unfortunately no one really throws them anymore. The sword in multiple plastics is basically my wraith type discs

[@timlieder9324]

I own a Pig 100% because of your channel. There are dozens of us. Dozens!

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Trying to do my part for the Pig Farmers out there!

[@dalgrim]

I too, only own a pig because of the RobbieC channel

[@ShaneAlan1]

And he owns a pig because of Ricky

[@TheDrakmannen]

Ive been using defenders for a few years now, and what you wanna do is get yourself some biofuzion ones. Theyre overstable and pop-top new and beat into pretty flippy and glidey bombers over time. I bag regular fuzions too together with Rives for the straight to overstable slot. Raiders arent as comfortable in the hand imo.

[@ogdiscgolfer]

I really like this thought discussion and can't wait to see where this journey takes you!

[@JTygerAU]

I was super confused initially when Josh from OT dumped innova, but having thought about that move for a while, it makes sense for him and for to be less tied (or not tied) to any given manufacturer. Innova is great. If I had to pick one company to throw - they would be it. However, totally agree with your comments on making sure creators are valued in the space. Creators in any online space are either intentionally or unintentionally marketing for somebody. You guys need to be compensated not only directly by fans but by the companies you benefit. Any negotiation requires putting on pressure and that’s what you’re doing. Love to see the maturity growing in this space.

[@silverfoxdiscgolf]

I bought a Pig at the Innova Factory Store because of you Robbie!! And Nathan appreciated it, and your content!

[@bakerby]

My initial thought was that there was no way you were going to replace the Wraiths and Destroyers in your bag. Wow. I am impressed that you are taking the leap…(although I am sure there are many viewers asking why not the Grace and Ballista/Rive(?)) If I can add my 2 coins, Frost/Fluid/Elasto plastic from Trilogy is fantastic in cold weather. I cannot believe how well I can grip it in -10C weather. Looking forward to this year’s content.

[@TrashPanda069]

Arguably I would say that content creators could be a better selling avenue as more than half of disc golfers if not most cant throw like the pros do. So being able to see what a disc can do from someone with a more comparable arm speed is very beneficial to the consumer.

[@yolobutton2451]

I was all in on the PIG for a long time. Mixed in an A2 for a year and the A2 won my heart. The A2 is def my favorite disc now. Love the videos Mr. C !!!!

[@tneless10]

I’m a big mixed bagger. TSA, mvp/axiom/streamline, trident, dm, Innova. I could never replace the wraith but I get why you’re doing what you’re doing. Props to you.

[@bradsteed6833]

I like Raiders but… The RG Grace and then the RG Orbit Grace along side RG Rive and Raptor Eye Rive are my main go to’s. I like mixing in a Gold Musket and a K1 Löts. That’s my Lat64 side w/ a sprinkle of Kasta. Discraft wise… ESP Heat, Hades, Zeus, Force, and Venom.

[@BT_outdoors624]

Try the trespass against the raider. I find it more like a destroyer, where I see the raider comparable to the boss. And maybe streamline jet against the wraith.

[@Jase-ul5yi]

Yes! The Trespass is my only side-arm ace disc ever. And my only ace disc period. Lol. Great disc

[@dwightstanton2594]

Glad to see you trying newer molds to compare. Very Cool to see them in different stages of ware also. Not fresh from shelf

[@Mojos058]

Never giving up my G star wraiths

[@ZacMartin-r1i]

Robbie, how are ya? Hope you’re having a good day man. In this vid, when you’re talking about throwing drivers, the very first thing that popped into my head was “I bet this dude could totally rip a DGA Pipeline.” The way you’ve built your game on those slight hyzer releases from bombing Lunas and Pigs seems like it would play really well with that flip-up-to-flat, good movement fairway driver. Anyway, just thinking out loud. Thanks for the many enjoyable hours of content, homie.

[@johnkyblue]

I clicked on this because it said you were trashing wraiths. I want one. :) Turned out educationamal and a good watch. Thank you.

[@billmatthews8057]

These company's should pay more attention to content creator's like Robbie. Almost all disc I buy are because of recommendation's from them for newer players. The Pig and Polecat are good examples recommended by Robbie, and those disc are fire for me. I don't even care what the pro's use because I don't have the arm speed they do.

[@micahmilam914]

Looking for a good wraith comparison/switch? Check out the DGA Rogue. You will not be disappointed. They are like a wraith, but better. That's right, I went there.

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

That's a big claim!! Hahaha I've got a Rogue sitting on the shelf, I'll give it a rip!!

[@GabboDk]

Just add g-star wraith and I am loving it❤

[@colinarnold168]

Sad to see the Rinnegan destroyer go but love that you got someone working on new dojutsu dyes. Such sick ideas for discs, and stoked to see how the new ones do for you this year

[@rainmakes]

The 2022 halo calvin destroyers are my favorite run so far. Preferably the pink and white rim or pink and black rim ones.

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

The Pink and White might be one of the prettiest discs I ever had in my bag!

[@rainmakes]

​​@@RobbieCDiscgolf I just wish they weren't as difficult to find/expensive 😔 I've tried the 2023 runs and the blue with white rim or blue with orange rims haven't been too bad, but just not quite the same as the 2022s

[@Jase-ul5yi]

I bought 2 Ohn destroyers to support her first big win. They're good. I love Calvin's Toros

[@brandon24816]

Always Positive! Thank you 🙏 Long Time Viewer I’m a Berg Guy

[@patricklee4487]

Love the video and the outcome, even though my noodle arm can't throw either of the discs ;) Now we just need a Robbie C Escape for me to buy!

[@dblevins343]

I get what your doing. I'm doing the same thing. I personally don't like the majority of my bag is MVP. I feel like a walking bill board for them when I mostly throw the Proxy, Hex, Uplink, and Crave. In addition to those, I bag plenty of others such as the Signal, Paradox, Watt, Virus, Inertia, etc. Because of this I've forced myself to buy discs from new companies. I've discovered I like the PA5 and Mirage putters. (I already used P2s as my putting putters). Clash Discs has a great understable mid. The DGA Vortex is absolute money. Kastaplast Svea is an awesome flip up disc. Etc. Some of these have been replacing some of the MVP in my bag (such as the Spin, Signal, etc.) With that said, I will continue to praise the Uplink and Crave. I absolutely love them. Some of my staples are under attack though. The Proxy is very similar to the Pure. The Hex is mostly safe right now as my flip up straight and then fade disc.

[@jeffperry6969]

Yes it is called the sled. Just a note I have been watching your videos for 2 years now and kind of jelly I never heard ask how Jeff’s day is going? Either way I will continue to watch. Thanks bud!

[@EricJenkinsDiscGolf]

I appreciate you talking about the creator side of sponsorship. There's a lot of influence from creators. 🤘 Great content as always brother

[@ajkimball7046]

You are our favorite Pig Pusher! In fact it was blowing +25mph and drizzly but we decided to do a one pig disc challenge! It was a blast! Thanks Pig Father.

[@Jase-ul5yi]

The Sockibomb Slammer is where it's at 😝 lol. Love the pig too though

[@brianc1651]

Bought my first Pig today because of you.

[@andrewcannon8552]

Wouldn’t you make more headway with the smaller manufacturers?

[@Chris-qq2cu]

Great video! Out of curiosity when looking at trilogy plastic, what drew you to the raiders/defenders as opposed to stuff from Westside, Lat64, or even discmania or kasta?

[@jasonhopkins5569]

Go with the Flow!

[@gday3742]

I would’ve never bought the pig from a shop if I didn’t watch your videos. Great points, great vid!

[@discsmd]

COMPLETELY agree with the creator vs pro vantage point. The personal connection between creators and viewers I believe is much stronger than a pro and their fans. I mean I would take advise on plastic from you or Bodanza over say Calvin or Ganon. Just because we feel more connected.

[@brianc1651]

I also would add it is more beneficial because they throw more like us. Initially, I was buying what pros throw. Then I realized those will get such a different flight for me.

[@discsmd]

@@brianc1651 100% agree

[@ThaElf]

You did mention max distance and max control distance, but what would those be, for you, as a number. How much does it actually affect the accuracy and distance payoff. Been kinda curious about it. Because while distance is always better, the ability to keep it in a tight group with consistency is often better than flashy long shot. Doesn't mean that reaching for further distance stops at X, but more so: When to push pure distance to when take that controlled shot, from tee or on a longer coarses?

[@callaway5148]

What do you think about the Rive? It's a great option for the Destroyer slot. I think they are more consistently OS than Destroyers, so you'll have to cycle one into that turning bomber slot.

[@ddownham]

Hey thanks for asking! I’m doing great today, watching this video while holding my newborn baby!

[@nonstop1861]

I’m not a content creator and just started playing but I don’t give af about the manufacture as long as it flies well and feels great in my hand. I carry Innova, TSA, MVP, west side etc. just started playing with Kastaplast and IDGAF I LOVE THE BERG!!! I also love the Svea and Kaxe. I have a few others from kastaplast but just got the Rask 😂

[@Jase-ul5yi]

I've never thrown anything as well or far as the Shryke. Also, the Stag from Westside. Those are my go-to discs for distance. I don't get money from any brand, so I buy most major brand's discs

[@kauisurfer13]

Yo Robbie! You ought to give the Silver Latt orbit Rives a try! Really great disc. I'm battling it VS time lapse and S line DD3 for my drivers in 2024.

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

I'll check it out! I know Josh over at Overthrow was crushing those when I hung out with him last week, so pumped to give them another chance!

[@earshelhogan6148]

I think that's the disc that Josh threw over 500 in their recent video!

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

one of the greatest videos on the internet!@@earshelhogan6148

[@patricknelson7965]

​@@RobbieCDiscgolfRives are fantastic for that over stable slot. I was surprised that I was getting 90% of the distance ( 420 ish max with bombers like a pharaoh ) that i normally get with something as stable as the rive is with zero turn. Still get 390 ish with it, glide is phenomenal, and the royal plastic is arguably the best in the game.

[@adamgrigsby3744]

Hey Robbie! If you decide you don’t want your really really flippy wraiths anymore, I’d love to take them off your hands. I prefer wraiths to be flippier and beat in so they’d be perfect for me! Lemme know if you’re interested in moving off of any of them!

[@CatchMeOutside361]

Do you think some more height on thsoe flippy drivers coulda helped them fade/hyzer out and the end of their flights?

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Definitely possible!! That Wraith was suppper flippy so always scary to put any power on it without perfect conditions. The Darth Maul Raider has already been lost to water since I filmed this hahaha!

[@CatchMeOutside361]

@@RobbieCDiscgolf not the Darth Maul 🤣 risk it all for the content 🫡

[@DavidCornelius]

Fun comparison! The Raider's an awesome mold, the only reason it didn't last for me is DD plastic. I've only tried Fuzion and Lucid -- Fuzion I love until it suddenly gets way too flippy, and Lucid feels too slick for me. If there's something like Fuzion that has a longer sweet spot period, please let me know. The DD plastics page is overwhelming! (EDIT: to answer my own question, it looks like Hybrid is what I'm looking for.)

[@cedricpeckham8950]

I enjoyed watching this episode of the great ninja war! lmao W obito uchiha!

[@RockCh4lk]

Love my Raider(s). Can always depend on a little flip and fade.

[@dwmichaels]

I'm not throwing > 350', so for me, I found discs like the Grace great distance drivers because they aren't as overstable at slow speed, so I get the longer forward progress before they stop. The destroyer (and even the wraith) always just fade early. The further you can throw, I think the more you want the high speed stability (so they don't roll) and the more you value the the slow speed overstability (so you know they will come back). While I can get a wraith or destroyer to fly okay, I don't get that great turn the pros do, so the slow speed fade takes off distance for me.

[@tough101]

As a player that throws 450’ plus I would recommend for max distance terns and mambas

[@dwmichaels]

@@tough101 I've tried a mamba but found it too unpredictable for me (my lack of control). I like the Tern and keep putting them in the bag and taking them out :) I find the star turns over quite a bit (hyzer flips) and the champ is fairly stable. Good disc.

[@danielpace835]

The grace, rive,havoc what u think. staples in my bag 12 speeds are no good for me in any manufacturer

[@dalgrim]

Honestly if you want a disc that has a flight like your flippy wraith right out of the box and maintains that flight a long time (wear/beat-in time) check out the MVP Wave.

[@fire256lyons4]

Love the Vikings stamped Wraith. If you ever wanted to get rid of it hit me up. Go Vikes!! I guess next year since they are out of the playoffs this year.

[@CoffeeonKorriban]

I bad both defenders and raiders. The ricky Wysocki chameleon raiders are super beefy, but the glide is INSANE.

[@OkieTradez]

have you tried the R-Pro Pig for putting? its what i putt with..

[@bernan1]

in heavy wind. Yep.:D

[@nasserrihan6942]

So you’re switching bc Innova won’t give you a sponsorship? Am I reading between the lines correctly here?

[@fenrirdiscgolf]

Hey Robbie can you talk about equipment you use for your videos sometime? I know I'm interested in the microphone specifically. It would be very useful for up and coming youtubers, I feel like.

[@RiceDaddy-wo2fy]

Roberto, I'm trying to watch a video to cook dinner and I see this spicy vid!!

[@outer1m]

Nice, I have 8 different distance drivers in my bag lol, one nuke, two wraiths, one octane, one mamba, one hades, a havoc, and a DD

[@stephenscott4687]

I have bought almost all my discs based on KZbin and social media than I have because a pro is throwing it. I know I’m not a pro and my arm speed is much more similar to you than it is to Ricky or AB, even though I love both those players.

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Amen! Lot's of companies are starting to value the creator...Innova just isn't there quite yet!

[@patricklee4487]

@@RobbieCDiscgolf Not even sure Innova is valuing their pros either :(

[@agradert]

Have you tried the Lat64 Havoc?

[@calebdyer6332]

I usually try to minimize molds but I bag both wraith and destroyer. IMO they are virtually the same disc. Slightly different feel. Some destroyers are flippier than wraiths and some are more stable.

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

The biggest place I noticed the difference was on Forehands. I found the destroyers to be a bit better for longer distance forehands which was nice!

[@calebdyer6332]

@@RobbieCDiscgolf have you tried the czar from infinite? It’s great on forehand. It’s a wraith with a different top mold that makes it more torque resistant. It does sacrifice a bit of glide though

[@Jase-ul5yi]

You tried shrykes? It may be because I have less arm speed but I can make shrykes go a lot farther and more accurate than Wraiths

[@calebdyer6332]

@@Jase-ul5yi I’ve actually never thrown one. I usually stick to slower discs whenever possible so I’ve stayed away from 13 speeds.

[@Jase-ul5yi]

@@calebdyer6332 me too. I think they numbered the speed wrong because it flies for me. More than any 10 or 11 speed I've thrown. I don't think it's really a 13. And I'm still a noodle-arm. Lol

[@zachsnyder5444]

I like that instead of switching out every single disc in your bag from innova that you are just trying to change some of them. Some other people definitely overreacted and as a result, now are effectively boycotting the brand that innovated disc technology over and over again and is still the most popular brand

[@thomasahne9857]

Hey Robbie. I would love to get my hands on your Vikings Wraith! I do have a Star Destroyer with a beautiful Vikings- Dye and these two would love eachother so much!

[@miestrog.967]

Where u find a football logo cant find a steelers one anywhere :(

[@southwest82]

I would not consider myself an Innova fan boy, But for me it comes down to basic economy. I have virtually every mold in the lineup in various weights and plastics. I know how they fly and can change weight or plastic based on course. That "full selection" of several hundred discs, looking back, cost a mint. If I dabbled in other brands, start the process all over and cost even more and can only carry so many discs. Polecat ftw🎉

[@masonboore5325]

Those Fuzion Raiders are going to beat in to a very nice flippy disc.

[@mattdavis3496]

I wish you would have tested the Enforcer & the Raider. The Defender and Raider are very very similar. I was a longtime Innova thrower and started throwing all DD a couple years ago, and I realized the Raider is a bomber like the Wraith. The Enforcer is more like your overstable Calvin Destroyer. There is a reason all the DD pros throw Enforcers. Defenders get flippy. Enforcer is the one!

[@ks-pg5sh]

This sounds like a conversation that the guys at Overthrow had last year.

[@Sanfordtime]

Love the idea so many people shit on me for throwing D2s and D3s but I love em

[@matthewmarshall5730]

Check out some Legacy options for drivers

[@addisonr2]

Innova needs to sponsor my man!!

[@seymourglass26]

He literally used to be sponsored by them and quit the team, so I think he knows what that experience was like for him and said "nah."

[@SwankyDiscGolf]

Technically everyone at Swanky is Dave and we are doing great. Also nothing can defeat the Sharingan/Rinnegan!

[@SHIZZLER__]

Should try Lone Star Nimitz, exact numbers as Wraith.

[@OkieTradez]

if anything you could throw and only give disc numbers instead of brand names so theyre not getting free pub from you but we still get the flight numbers flight path etc.

[@davidmcdaniel7466]

Yes, I am having a good day. Thanks for asking 😂

[@jp3933]

ohh you throw the bag i usually throw discs :D

[@Mr_Ace_Run3000]

Great content

[@rockinroyle]

I mean, everyone, including foundation, is trying to sell discs. While there is value in trying different discs, ultimately if you work at it you can make most discs workout eventually. It’s human nature to get into a constant search for that one piece that will put you over the edge. As a guitarist it reminds me of people tone chasing to get an exact result someone else had. Accept and be happy with YOUR result. I enjoy throwing discs more than buying them. If I didn’t lose so many I would rarely get new discs. And I’m not an old head. I’ve been playing for 7 months

[@learnwithmediscgolf]

I’m good Robbie! How are you?

[@austing7820]

Haven’t fully watched the video yet but I replaced my wraith that I lost with a scorch it’s a little more understandable then the wraith but it still has a nice flight

[@mattrandall7836]

You try the trespass for a wraith slot

[@ericwalter2944]

🎶Quit playing games with my heart…

[@jii-ro7083]

Discmania DD1 and Latitude 64 Grace would be great replacements for the wraith

[@andrewlinhart3228]

I want your stamp on something Lonestar! I wanna support ya

[@BigMac11041]

Warbird by lonestar is a good one

[@joshdidur5442]

You probably should have compared those new raiders to a new wraith instead of one you've thrown a billion times if you were being fair

[@TheHatchet2]

First! Thanks for sharing, Robbie!

[@TheHatchet2]

Is there a reason you didn't do the more than once?

[@kennykennington7033]

hey robbie if it makes u feel better i stopped throwing the pig because of u

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Stopped? RIP :P

[@stuartschwenke6656]

Have your seen Michael Holt creator/content Dynamic Disc endeavor. He nailed it. Frankly, I do not hang out much on his channel anymore b/c I am not interested in how DD discs fly through his favorite course. I understand that you are looking at/for a revenue stream that is ultimately what this channel and other channels try to do. We lose something and content suffers when that drives the ideas. One of your stated goals was to focus on helping beginners through modeling and coaching. Choosing High Speed distance drivers may be important for you and for your income stream, it may not help beginners. 😞

[@arbarbash]

We need more Owl stamp Pigs

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

We'll see what ABB can cook up for this year!!

[@seymourglass26]

@@RobbieCDiscgolfNo, but for real, XD XD (crying laughing here). They sold out so fast (the Wraiths, too), and many of us were super bummed when they didn't get restocked. You've got a lot of fans, Robbie. I mean, if Bodanza's selling out over and over again, I'll also be the one to point out that you have 20k more subs than he does and (34k vs. 56k is a big difference; you've been here a minute).

[@mas30066]

Chattahoochee Pointe parking lot?

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

Actually Calera, AL! Although Chattahoochee Pointe is a great track!

[@framundahcheese4092]

I don't understand how you can use one disc to do many things by just the plastic/age. I can't get some of mine to do that. I literally have one disc for almost any situation and theyre all different. I bag about 6 or 7 different brands because the disc fits the roll better than the last. I'm always buying new brands and trying new discs. I have to say that even though I love innova, the discs just dont quite fly and feel as good as some other brands. Like Doomsday, Gateway, Kastaplast. Doomsday feels like innova but to me get a better release, plus they have cool stamps and names lol.

[@bernan1]

as they beat in they take on different flight characteristics. One idea is to be able to throw the same release and let the disc do the work once it's out of your hand. I have wraiths that are stable that I can't turn over, and ones that are so flippy I can bend them around corners with their turns. Same feel in the hand though. Meanwhile...others like a different feel for different shots. Which works, too. It just may be harder to get back up discs for all those extra molds.

[@michaelrobbins8728]

Shoulda stuck with wraiths:). Best distance driver for 55-65 mph….

[@Iliyena87]

Got to many discs to throw! Don't make me pick up and test the Wraiths and Destroyers again! That will add Jun, H3v2, Grace, Trespass, Valhalla and several more to the comparisson. xD

[@JoshJackson13]

Flat esp Zeus is a good wraith replacement. But can't replace the destroyers.

[@JoshJackson13]

Raiders are in-between wraith and destroyers. they are actually pretty good. But my Zeus has unbelievable glide not torque resistant like the raider or wraith though

[@jii-ro7083]

You guys in usa have the weirdest disc golf courses. So many times i see you guys throwing next to a car road or over a road and stuff. It seems like its not an actual course but rather random baskets at the most random locations :D

[@spencergambrell7819]

I mean… you could switch some of your slots to trilogy and keep some of the destroyers and wraiths

[@RobbieCDiscgolf]

definitely thought about it! Between Pigs, Polecats, Wraiths, and Destroyers I had 10 of my 23 discs being Innova. I value my Pigs and Polecats trying to replace them as harder than the Drivers, so we're going to try out the Raiders for a bit to see if they stick!