Replacing the Spindle and Back Gear on my Logan 820

[@roberthanulec5987]

I took my Logan 850 apart to put a one piece belt on and in the reassembly I forgot the belt. Seeing you do the same made me feel better about my error.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Ha... it's easy to do

[@dannywilsher4165]

Good job Mr. Winky!!! Makes me think about the guys who designed and built these things back when they were new....

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I've thought about that a lot also. I'm sure there was a lot of manual machining going on... no carbide, no CNC

[@AmateurRedneckWorkshop]

Way to go Winky. I knew it would work out just right. keep on keeping on.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thank you, I will

[@andyZ3500s]

That was lucky of you to find a headstock with less wear than yours. It sounded smooth on the video and you looked satisfied. Milling the slot so you could clock the back gear easier was a good idea. Great video.

[@andyZ3500s]

@@WinkysWorkshop That's great, I'm glad everything worked out well. The Logan should serve you well for quite awhile now. I forgot to thank you for the extra stickers that you sent. I'll be in touch.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@andyZ3500s - Oh no problem on the stickers. Good to hear from you. I really need to sell one of my lathes, I need the space. My South Bend 11 is a bit more solid but the Logan cuts a bit smoother... hard to decide!

[@andyZ3500s]

@@WinkysWorkshop That is a hard decision they are both nice lathes. The Logan is well sorted out with the work you just did but the extra rigidity of the South Bend is hard to beat. There must be a reason that the South Bend doesn't cut as well. It's probably has something to do with the headstock or carriage but I am sure you have looked at all these things. Then there is the option of selling both and putting the money into one lathe but that is a headache. As you know a good homeshop lathe can be hard to find. Every one is to big, completely worn out or the guy wants tons off money for something that needs $1000 in accessories.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@andyZ3500s The difference in the cut quality is not drastic. I'm fairly sure it has to do with plain bearings vs double row pre-loaded ball bearings in the Logan.

[@andyZ3500s]

@@WinkysWorkshop That's probably it.

[@tmenyc]

Mark, best Logan resto video ever. Makes complete sense and thanks for missing that belt twice, shows you're human!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks Tim! I know that in the past there has been a lot of questions about how to do this so I thought it would be a good idea to document this.

[@bulldawg6259]

You sure give Mr Pete a good run for the money

[@WinkysWorkshop]

That's a great compliment but there will never be another Mr. Pete! I met him last week at the Flywheeler event in Florida. He is a great guy... just what you would expect!

[@RajbirSingh-wg9pf]

They look the same and even sound the same. I would have thought it was Mr Pete if we’re only listening. Ah! but Mr Pete is not Lt handed. Good work. Iam sufficiently motivated to buy the Logan 9 inch recently offered to me. Imagine a Logan half way across the globe in India!

[@citronmetalworks]

I know this is an old video but thank you!! I picked up my second logan lathe and the bearings are shot in the head stock. so i really want to restore it. Your video is helping me greatly! Thank you sir!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Your welcome. Yes it's nice to have a video to go by. I did not.

[@outsidescrewball]

Enjoyed…nice video production/discussion/build-repair

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks Chuck!

[@Lucas_sGarage]

thank god i found your channel, i recently got myself a logan 820 and I'm learning to use it, i was worried that instead of bearings have bushings and i was afraid of running the lathe too fast and wearing them down, glad to see that the used bearings

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Glad I could help! Welcome!

[@merlinious01]

Holy shit! My lathe is a logan 820! Its label is missing, but this is the exact same lathe!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

That's great, it's a good lathe... depending on condition of course.

[@williamojr]

I loved this video because i just started restoring my atlas lathe and my quick change gear box is a O'Brian gear change. Very close to your gearbox. Ive replaced one gear and the slide rod of the select drive also all the bushings. Thanks for all the education youve given us. It is very valuable to me. Thank you.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Great to hear!

[@gabewhisen3446]

The back gear , it is the cluster gear wow that was amazingly quiet a d with salvage parts nice job

[@WinkysWorkshop]

A back gear is like an additional gear reduction at the spindle. Most older lathes like south bends, Logan, atlas, etc. have 6 different speeds based on what pulley is used. When in back gear the same 6 speeds are available but reduced drastically.

[@nashguy207]

Great job winky. You did a better job than I could of done!!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Probably because I've done it 3 times... oh wait 6 times if you count forgetting the belt!

[@tinkermouse-scottrussell3738]

Been their Done that hear I thought I was the only one. Play safe from Elliot Lake, Ontario, Canada.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

The belt? Ha

[@garythomas4914]

I just got an 820 and will probably go through the headstock while it is off the bed for cleaning and painting. this video will be a good help, thank you! I have done a lot of woodworking machinery restoration since the '70s but just getting into a little metalworking. forgetting the belt a few times is something I would probably do.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

The 820 is a good lathe and it's nice that many of the parts are still available even if they are high priced. Hopefully the bearings are in good shape.

[@garythomas4914]

@@WinkysWorkshopthe bearings are not in good shape and have probably been replaced already as they are sealed bearings. this is going to cost, but better to bite the bullet now before it goes back together. a bit of wear on the spindle in the area where the pulley rides too which I hope isn't too much of an issue.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@garythomas4914 The bearings are cheap I bought a 10 pack for $12. Make sure this is the right bearing but I'm pretty sure this is what I got amzn.to/3r1Gi9B

[@TheKnacklersWorkshop]

Nicely done Mark...

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks!

[@TheGrainDoctor]

This video was hugely helpful in rebuilding my model 200. ThanksM

[@WinkysWorkshop]

You're welcome. I've removed the spindle 3 times between my Logan 200 and 820. The first time was difficult. Second went fairly smooth. It would have been helpful to have a video the first time. Glad I could help!

[@lv_woodturner3899]

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. A lot of work, but the end result was worth it. Dave.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I could do it in 40 minutes now. Ha... Of course it took me much longer this time. Maybe the video will others.

[@ypaulbrown]

no such thing as scrap....potential art, potential tool, potential part, but never scarp.......enjoy your channel....cheers from Florida, Paul

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks 👍 And i agree, I keep it all.

[@johnnyholland8765]

Great job on the repair. Only problem is if that orange cord is the power cord it was still plugged in the whole time. Always isolate your power source...

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I can't believe you are the only one that noticed... good point too. Considering the belt system and it being extremely loose there was not much danger BUT, never the less, you are correct.

[@tooltimechris7217]

This is a great improvement in the lathe! Well done! I’m surprised how easily you take the whole headstock apart! Enjoyable to watch

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks Chris. I was surprised as well. The simple puller made it much easier.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Good point and i agree, thanks!

[@jackdawg4579]

grease to get a blind bushing out. fill with grease, tap a snug bar in and hydraulic pressure will force the bush out. (assuming it doesn't have an end cap as well...)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I thought I replied to this but maybe not. Excellent idea!!! I'll remember that!

[@fredcreer1929]

That's a tip we can all learn from. Thanks.

[@danharold3087]

I tried that on a live center. Did not work till I added shredded paper towels to the grease. But yeah grease alone should do it.;

[@OldtimeIronman]

@@WinkysWorkshop oldest trick in the book, that's how you remove the pilot bearing from the crank shaft on stick shift vehicles

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@OldtimeIronman That makes sense although I've never changed a pilot shaft bearing.

[@TERRYB0688]

Nice Job Mr Winky, think the Logan lathe is very similar to the Boxford lathe sold in the UK

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I almost bought a Boxford lathe about 6 month ago. Nice lathe!

[@seanwolfe9321]

I'm making this a drinking game...every time you have a hammer in your hand....DRINK! That seemed like quite the pain in the neither regions. Nice job getting it taken care of!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Funny... and Thanks!

[@howder1951]

Great repair, enjoyed!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks for watching!

[@dwightcarlson7136]

Forgetting to put the belt on reminds me when I was working with copper tubing and using a spring which was slid over the tubing when making bends to prevent kinking. More than once I forgot to remove the spring before installing the nut and flaring the tubing. 😂😂😂

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Now that would be hard to correct! ha

[@dwightcarlson7136]

@@WinkysWorkshop Yeah wasted some tubing. 🙄

[@phillipjones3342]

Persistence pays off well done ;-)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks... it runs smooth now!!!

[@kentuckytrapper780]

Good fix winky, I've got to make a worm gear for a Cincinnati tray top lathe, not looking forward to it.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Sounds like an interesting challenge!

[@johnfry9010]

Nice job , just before you said don't forget the belt I thought he forgot the belt , because that is exactly what I would have done , LOL .

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I remember thinking, "don't forget the belt when you put the spindle back in." Thinking is overrated. Ha

[@joell439]

Congratulations 👍😎👍

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thankyou sir!

[@Butterbean00]

Thanks for this video. I also have a Logan 820 Ive been wanting to get up and running as a 2nd lathe. It is a cabinet model. It has a missing tooth on the bull gear. This video should come in handy for me if Im lucky enough to find a bull gear replacement. I understand that stuff is pricey.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Yeah... ridiculously high. Around $600 I think. The one I just took out is usable. It has a repaired tooth. It works fine but I you can hear it. If you are interested let me know. [e-mail]

[@Conno9220]

Looking good Mark! I've not messed with the older lathes. The 1340 I re-did was a pain.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Plane bearings like my South Bend are much easier.

[@BruceBoschek]

Thanks for sharing this. Very interesting and very well described.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Glad you enjoyed it! Your welcome.

[@Steviegtr52]

Nice job. The Logan has a lot of similarities with the Myford lathes. Steve.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks

[@millomweb]

28:00 That middle belt pulley says oil ! I hope you do and I hope you oiled the back-gear shaft and its bearings ! PS did you remember to put the belt on ;)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Good observation. I didn't show it in the video both got a generous shot of oil. In the past I have oiled the cone pulley maybe once a year but it is easy to forget. Fortunately the bearing it lubricates is only used while in back gear. Sadly, the back gear itself does not have any good method for lubricating. I usually drip some oil at the ends of the shaft about once a year. I'm sure oil gets in there plus is ends up lubricating the gears too.

[@millomweb]

@@WinkysWorkshop "Sadly, the back gear itself does not have any good method for lubricating. " You could have a go at the manufacturers for that - but considering the age of the machine, your own modification would be a better solution - an oiler on the end of the backgear shaft !!!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@millomweb I actually thought about that... I guess I got lazy. Oh well... maybe next time. Thanks

[@danharold3087]

Don't have a Logan but still interesting. Wondering if an air impact might be a better choice than a hammer and punch. Sure works well for small engine flywheel removal.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I'm guessing that would be great

[@treverrin]

Good video really enjoyed it, great work.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thank you very much!

[@tilliesinabottle]

great video Winky, you'll probably save a logan owner some damage when he has to take the headstock apart, definitely save him some head-scratching.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I hope so... this is the third time I've had a logan spindle out and aside from forgetting the belt it was the smoothest.

[@TomokosEnterprize]

Great to see you my friend. That is some nice wrenching bud. Sure nice to have that spare head eh. It would have been a pain to re align that head if you had to take it off eh.

[@TomokosEnterprize]

@@WinkysWorkshop Awesome. I had to adjust one on a big lathe and it took me a day and a half getting it just right

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@TomokosEnterprize - Yes I'm positive it would be a pain to get right

[@donmittlestaedt1117]

Thanks. Quite interesting..

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@marcco74]

So, if I wanted to just pull the back gear out to replace the larger gear, I either need to pull the headstock off the lathe or remove the spindle? i can't drop the back gear out of the bottom of the headstock while its on the ways, right?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Exactly.

[@FearsomeWarrior]

I have a Logan 815 with a few teeth broken on the bull gear. Watching this gives me anxiety. It’s already broken down but getting the head apart is gonna be nerve-wracking. It’s in very good shape but I don’t want to mess anything up.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Hopefully the video will make it easier.

[@FearsomeWarrior]

@@WinkysWorkshop Very much. I’m excited to get the rest of it up and going. I stripped and painted the legs and tray. The easy parts but getting a lathe... with so many projects I want to do.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@FearsomeWarrior - Aside from some basic tools like drill press, a saw, grinders etc... a lathe is huge plus! Some say a mill is more handy but I think most would agree a Lathe is number one!

[@FearsomeWarrior]

@@WinkysWorkshop I believe Vaucanson’s lathe from 1751 was the launch point for everything we have today. You can make anything on a lathe including another lathe. He is also credited for the loom. I love that we can go see his lathe at Musée des arts et métiers in Paris. It’s on my bucket list. Worth a watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpulaqKBa9WemKM

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@FearsomeWarrior Thanks... I'll watch the video. I love these old machines!

[@silverbullet7434]

I have the 11-48 Logan she's got to be 80 yrs old ive had her for fifty plus yrs. .Use to make custom gun cleaning rods and other things shooters use in competition . By making things it helped pay for entry fees and motels n fuel. Never did she let me down . think I only needed 1-2 belts flat type. I have 5C lever collet set up 3-4-6 jaw chucks too.I I should sell but its buried in shop with new in the crate milling machine.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I sell flat belts if you need one. What kind of mill?

[@sky173]

Thanks for this video. I'll be rebuilding my old Logan head soon. I have a question though. Is the bull gear supposed to be engaged when you pull or push the lever? Currently when I use the back gear, it slips out of mesh when I begin putting pressure on the tool when I begin cutting. Any thoughts? Thanks again for sharing!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

You're welcome. This back gear shift is a little confusing and hard to work on but I'll do my best to describe the process. First, the axle that the back gear assembly runs on has turned down ends that are off center (eccentric) plus the gear that the shifter rack engages with is keyed to one of the turned down ends (see 20:40 in the video). So when you pull on the shifter it rotates this shaft and raises the gears to mesh with both gears on the spindle. So to answer your question, pulling on the shift engages the back gear. Now, there is a set screw locking collar on the back end of the shifter rack and a small tab under the rack next to the knob you pull out. I'm guessing you are aware of this little tab or lever, it is in a little milled slot under the rod and it drops down and locks the rod in the pulled-out (engaged) position. If this little tab or lever isn't damaged the locking collar on the back needs to be very close to the casting and locked when the shift rod is locked in the out position. So some movement when the load changes is normal but it should not be much. Now the hard part. If the gear mesh needs to be set closer between the spindle gears and back gear you have to remove the locking collar on the back, pull the lever out and and then rotate the gear it engages with one tooth toward you. At 22:28 I'm cutting a screwdriver slot in the end of the back gear shaft. This makes it much easier to change this gear engagement with the spindle (the end of the shaft can be seen if you remove your reverse gear assembly). If you don't have the screwdriver slot (which is likely) you have to have small hands or get lucky with a screwdriver and rotate the bottom gear a little. I think I was able to move the gear from under the bed. It's a pain to do but once it's done it's done. Watch the video closely.

[@sky173]

@@WinkysWorkshop Thanks for taking the time to write all that. It appears that mine is backwards, where-as pushing the knob in engages the back gear. That explains why it's always trying to pop out of gear when beginning a cut. I noticed that slit you made on the shaft to turn it with a screw driver. I'll have to add that once I begin the rebuild. Very cleaver idea!! Thanks again for assisting. I appreciate the help!

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@sky173 No problem.

[@tomnorton8218]

Just came across your channel! So I am looking for my first lathe and have a Logan 210 not far away. I am wondering the best way to disassemble it for moving? Thoughts? Thanks

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I would say yes. If I remember right the 210 is mounted to a bench of some sort. In some cases I suppose you might be able to move it while attached to the bench but in most cases its easier to remove the drive (its very heavy) and remove the lathe from the bench. Note: While lifting the lathe be careful not to bend the lead screw if you wrap a rope or chain around the bed.

[@jimpritz4169]

Interesting video although my lathe is an Atlas probably a somewhat similar procedure if I had to do it.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Some atlas are a lot different.

[@fredcreer1929]

How did you repair the damage to the collar nut.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I just ground off the burrs. Thanks for watching

[@reelmoody2376]

You’re pretty good and working and figuring out challenges. You have a shop full of tools but don’t understand using a nice screwdriver as a punch. Beating that nut loose and tightening with a brass punch would have avoided filing off the burrs and damaging the nut. You have a different mindset than mine when buying new bushings and not using them. Returning the bushings to save money is one thing, but typical of many who put them in the drawer to get damaged or lost. Thanks for the info.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@reelmoody2376 - Thanks, Yeah, I use a screw driver if it's not stuck bad otherwise I use a punch. In the case of both take up nuts I doubt brass would have done anything. Brass in an 1/8" hole can't take much. The other take up nut on the front bearing maybe... It was incredibly tight. I guess the way I look at it is, it will loosen and still be easy to repair. I would never beat on a bearing or shaft like that but a nut is easy to repair and even make if needed. As for the bushings... yeah... maybe new would have been a good idea but to be honest, I have replaced sleeve bearing in the past and had mixed results. I've even had sleeve bearing have more clearance than the old sleeve but more often they end up slightly under when pressed in. Sometimes I have good results reaming but sometimes I end up loose after reaming. I have a full set of reamers up to 1/2" including .001" over and under. The new shaft measured almost .0015 over and had a great fit in the replacement back gear. I was a little worried about being tight even with the .001+ reamer. By my judgment the shaft felt like a perfect fit in the used bushings and judging by the sound of the gears I'd say the lathe will be good for another 50 years. I'd say the original bearings got starved for oil. Logan didn't provide a method to oil them but a shot of oil in the right location will get to them.

[@tcpbox]

Sanches Blanes Brasil, Logan UK and South Bend USA are all the same wonderful lathe projet, if I can I would have all these 3 lathes in my shop

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Yes, I love my lathes

[@dwightcarlson7136]

Did you make or buy your slitter saw arbor/hub? Link to video or purchase?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

It was bought although I got it with my mill.

[@tommccully2109]

What does "back gear" mean or do ?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

The term originated from older lathes with the gear in the back of the head stock. On the Logan the gear (or 2 actually) are located under the spindle. I suppose you could call the under gears or bottom gears but even Logan refers to them as a Back Gear. The purpose of these gears are two reduce the speed. It act kind of like a low range would act on a 4 wheel drive.

[@stefantrethan]

Please get some brass and copper rods to use as punches.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I should have made of bought a spanner wrench. Brass absorbs too much of the impact

[@ginahardee4891]

what size serpintine is that?

[@WinkysWorkshop]

It's a glue on conveyor belt used mostly in the printing industry.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Can't remember the length

[@gerhardtlouw5637]

If you don't have grease available fill the blinde hole with some bread, use a punch or shaft with the diameter of the hole in the bush and put it under a pres ore use a hammer. The hydraulic pressure will push the bush out .Sorry for your mid day sandwich

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Cool idea, thanks

[@retiresoon5639]

As a retired Millwright i found this to be panful to watch.

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Hey thanks!

[@CapnCrusty]

Heh heh. You and I work in a similar manner. ☺

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Cool... hopefully you don't also forget the belt.

[@t.d.mich.7064]

I said " Don't forget the belt!" - and then you forgot a second time! Great minds look at the big picture, and ignore all the details. (;-)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I must be great... thanks! I could not believe I did that.

[@jackdawg4579]

put the belt on! put the belt on! your not listening to me! oh you noticed...twice... :)

[@WinkysWorkshop]

No Kidding... where were you when I needed you!

[@magicbytes3835]

Hello Winky, I found a PDF Manual for your lathe, it shows all the parts list too, don't know if your interested or not? Cheers 😷👍👍👍👍👍

[@WinkysWorkshop]

I have the manual but thanks for asking. Also I sold this lathe (I miss it)

[@magicbytes3835]

Oh WOW, you SOLD IT, after all that work you put into it, and it sounded really quiet when running, thanks for replying about the manual for it. Cheers from me. 😷👍@@WinkysWorkshop

[@WinkysWorkshop]

@@magicbytes3835 I probably should have kept it. It was in better shape than the South Bend. The south bend is a lot more solid however.

[@kentuckytrapper780]

👍👍👍

[@WinkysWorkshop]

Thanks

[@AlbiesProductsOnline]

I can never understand why when someone has the new parts for the machine they have pulled apart but decide they are going to reuse old bearings from a donor machine. The machine is a donor for a reason they don’t pull apart a good working machine you don’t know how much work the bearings have done you don’t know how hot they have been causing them to work harder and possibly disintegrate after a few hours of runtime causing you to pull everything back apart for gods sake just replace the bearings when you have a machine apart

[@WinkysWorkshop]

If I was running a machine shop I'd use new bearing. As far as the sleeve bearings go they are fairly easy to judge so I had no problem using them. The spindle bearing are a different animal. They are very high priced. There is also some confusion as well. If you buy the bearing from Logan it's very high priced. You can buy the bearing from the bearing manufacturer and the price is about half. SKF says it's the exact same bearing and Logan claims it special order to there tolerances. The bearing in the old headstock seemed to be good but I reused the bearing in my running lathe because it was proven and tested within tolerance. This reused bearing is actually a New Departure bearing and might be the 1947 original. I pulled the seal and replaced the grease. I was shocked that a bearing made in 1947 would have no noticeable wear!!! (has technology really improved?). For the record, if I was rebuilding my running lathe today I would probably pay the $280 (I think that price is about right). When I rebuild the lathe originally I didn't have the funds. I did replace the outboard bearing which is a standard EM bearing. It was cheap... less that $80.