Reputations | Éamon De Valera: Ireland's Hated Hero | BBC Documentary 1999

[@mattrogers7521]

I have always believed that if Collins had survived he would have found a way to unite Ireland. He was an energetic and very intelligent man while Dev was little more than a very clever career politician.

[@Dechieftian]

I one hundred percent agree with your very sharp and succinct comment.

[@pato2200]

I believe you are correct. Churchill rated collins very highly and said he was worth a dozen brass hats (generals). He created the SOE modelled on collins' organisation "to do to the germans what collins did to us". Collins said of the treaty, "it is not freedom but the the freedom to obtain freedom". I agree with you, collins would have found a way to get the Republic and unification.

[@declan1278]

You said my grandfather worked as runner for Michael Collins as he very young but involved in civil war later ended been jailed in Mountjoy on his release he feel out of the truck carrying him home and feel in a dich which was freezing and lost his sight in one eye he drank again the stories he told me so grateful RIP grand dad

[@declan1278]

Sorry my grandfather never drank again

[@GödekeMichels_72]

I don't think he would have. Simply because the notion that it was on the table is a myth. Churchill is a master at words and note he never explicitly said that he would support reunification. He worded it in a way that it could easily mean symbolic as being united in a common struggle. De Valera (and many Irish politicians who were part of the struggle) knew Churchill quite well. And Churchill had an ugly site when dealing with those under British rule. Churchill was opposed to letting Ireland regain full sovereignty (on the treaty port question). He even forced Collins to use violence and thus make negotiation impossible in the Irish Civil war in order to maintain control. De Valera was also smart enough to remember how well the British remembered their promises post war in wars before. Just ask the Arab Rebellion in WW1 ... I grant that a lot of De Valera's policies in particular economic wise were short sighted and driven by ideology. But him not seeing Churchill's speech as a 100% sure reunification offer was pure political realism.

[@landsea7332]

. de Valeria refused to attend the Anglo Irish Treaty negotiations and sent Collins in his place . Then after it was signed , de Valera sold Collins out . .

[@tomcarlton8760]

‘He wanted custody of the aspiration to a United ireland.’ Very well put.

[@Clipgatherer]

In fact, Éamon de Valera was half Spanish and born in New York City.

[@williamwallace4924]

He was a foreigner he was not irish. Typical American poking their nose into other countries business.

[@doloresaquines1529]

Clip. That is correct. His father was Juan de Valera. Originally from Seville.

[@Dechieftian]

a shame he didn't stay in the US .. He can never be forgiven for walking out of the Dail with his deputies after the vote for the Anglo-Irish Treaty was ratified by a majority vote. Not good enough for Dev .. oh no .. he knew better .. instrumental in destabilizing the country when it was most vulnerable. instrumental in causing the civil war that resulted in the death of the man that paved the way for independence .. a man that done the heavy lifting in the years that Devalera was dining in the Waldorf Astoria in New York .. 2 years he spent there preening and glad handing and smiling for the cameras.

[@dermototoole1762]

Well said Brendan Ryan. The biggest historical shame is that de Valera didn't get his bullet in 16 and Collins lived to lead our country into the 20s and beyond. A dictator I would call him. A cute whore he certainly was. RIP the wonderful Mick Collins 100 years on. RIP de Valera, I don't think so....

[@stephenwright8824]

AND messing up relations between the Irish here and those at home for at least a couple of decades. Except that he literally destroyed your country, as an Irish-American, I'm almost glad his Ma sent him back to Bruree.

[@bonniebluebell5940]

Agreed! Michael Collins opened the door to FREEDOM and took a bullet for it. LONG LIVE IRELAND!

[@Dechieftian]

@@bonniebluebell5940 Indeed! Long live the contribution of Ireland's greatest leader - Michael Collins. Fada beo Eire!

[@FromaTwistedMind]

Amen to that. Totally agree with your sentiments.

[@paulbromley6687]

As a Brit I find it galling that Collins got the best deal through compromise that he could get, and de Valera knew that, yet he chose to play a dirty game, Ireland could have had a far better start than de Valera would allow.

[@JayJay-vb7om]

Collins understood that half a loaf was better than none Devalera never really wanted unification, just the illusion so he could keep the unnecessary struggle going forever

[@dermototoole1762]

Jealousy is a nasty human trait and de Valera was full of jealousy against Michael Collins. He hated and feared the brilliant fighter tactician and all around organiser of men who would go to hell and back for him. Let there be no mistake, champagne glasses were raised in the de Valera household on August 22 1922....if only history had given de Valera his bullet in 16 and Collins would have certainly avoided his assassination. RIP Mick Collins on this the centenary of your death....

[@declan1278]

Well said

[@brymorian]

My view be entirely De Valera was the vilest traitor

[@declan1278]

Well said

[@declan1278]

@@brymorian so you're

[@declan1278]

Sorry mis spelt so right what you are saying

[@aarondavis8943]

De Valera had a habit of choking at the finish line. Collins grasped an opportunity by the throat.

[@adrianainespena5654]

Ireland is a rarity in newly independent country: it has never known a dictatorship. That was his biggest achievement.

[@Ricky_Baldy]

The Catholic Church effectively ran a dictatorship and they were invited by DeValera.

[@adrianainespena5654]

@@Ricky_Baldy The Catholic Church was already there. They did not need to be invited by deValera nor anyone.

[@ianc1312]

He gave them full license to bully and intimidate

[@adrianainespena5654]

They already had that. @@ianc1312

[@eireisrising]

Really. ? Are you living in éiRe now.

[@stephendevaney7282]

I wonder what Michael Collins would make of the Ireland of today.

[@colmmeade1824]

You've got a good point there

[@feliciameshach8213]

I've often wondered.

[@theeaskey]

After throwing up his breakfast .he would high tail it out of here.. it's Ireland in name only..Brussels are our masters, and we dance to their tune.

[@bonniebluebell5940]

He would be absolutely shocked and think of the price that was paid in blood. For what? FREE IRELAND from the Globalist scourge!

[@aussiebrad1962]

He'd turn in his grave

[@joehart7260]

A land of comely maidens indeed. He kept Ireland religiously and economically in a backwater for decades.

[@markpower9081]

I think it's better to compare him to other rulers of his era than to the politics of today. He could have been worse.

[@adrianainespena5654]

Religiously yes, but then his opponents were no better. Remember the Mother and Child debacle. As for economically, he started industrialization, carrying out the Griffith policies based on List's theories. After all, he unleashed Sean Lemass and allowed him to learn on the job.

[@joehart7260]

@@adrianainespena5654 My Auntie Nora used to admonish me whenever I criticised De Valera. "You don't know what this country was like before we got De Valera" she would say. I still think Collins would have been a better leader but perhaps she had a point.

[@phil2003ashleigh]

Let Tuam judge him

[@adrianainespena5654]

@@markpower9081 It was the era of fascism and dictatorships. He kept Ireland free of those.

[@bernardkeating9691]

Why would you send a soldier to do a politically job, Dev went to the USA to collect for the ‘cause he returned and gave some of the money to the cause, gave some to his family I.E the Irish Press when the donors learned of this they demanded their money back he almost admitted this near the end of his life commenting that in the fullness of time Collins contributed more to Irelands freedom than he had previously acknowledged 😢😢

[@FromaTwistedMind]

Good point.

[@fiachramaccana280]

blah blah... the Irish press was founded in 1931...he came back from the US in 1921.... your dates don't work...... usual Blueshirt lies.

[@richardshiggins704]

He claimed American citizenship and therefore was reprieved from the firing squad . As such he should have been deported forthwith and Ireland would hopefully never have heard of him again . Unfortunately this was not to be instead we had an introspective myopic halfwit whose rare foray into international affairs was to sign the book of condolence at the German Embassy on the death of Hitler .

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Did he give his condolemces to Germany on the death of Hitler in 1945?

[@sean_d]

He visited Hempel, the head of the German Legation, at his residence, with whom he had been dealing with for a while, to extend formal condolences to him on the death of his Head of State, and presumably to discuss the end of the Nazi regime. His view was that the diplomatic formalities of neutrality should be observed, even though Irish neutrality unofficially leaned towards helping the Allies. Got a lot of stick for it in the US and UK, and in his defence the Irish govt. pointed out that in 1941 Nazi representatives were welcomed to FDR's inauguration, despite having invaded France and the Low Countries, diplomacy works that way. In fairness to Dev he never showed any interest in Nazi policies, unlike some in those countries that became the Allies.

[@suffern63]

@@sean_d Do you know if he went himself to offer condolences at the US embassy on the death of FDR?

[@sean_d]

@suffern63 No I don't know. May well have. But I don't think he had the same kind of personal relationship. I seem to recall reading that the US representative was a bit of a shit-stirrer, happily exaggerating the amount of Nazi spies he claimed were running around Ireland (while British Intelligence were quite happy with the way they were being picked up). BTW the Irish president also visited Hempel on the previous evening, and that only came to light in recent years, it was not publicised at the time.

[@suffern63]

@@sean_d I have tried to see if he did using google but can't find anything.Thanks for the reply.Who was the president?

[@sean_d]

@suffern63 Douglas Hyde was President. It is a ceremonial role that in 1937 replaced the Governor General position the British had created as the King's representative. So as official head of state the President just deals with diplomats and signs bills passed by the parliament into law.

[@sbkj4]

Dev never fired a shot for Ireland … He refused to send troops or help to the 1916 Rebels who had the British pinned down at Mount Street bridge…and it was Michael Collins who provided him with help when he escaped from Lincoln jail … he refused to agree with the majority in the Dail who accepted the Treaty and he also refused to accept the wishes of the majority of the people of Ireland who voted to accept the Treaty … It was his wat or no way … he caused the Irish Civil War and then stayed out of harm’s way at home

[@vcrossCelticfc]

Exactly and he tried to justify it by bringing his family commitment into the equation. Like none of the other men had families. He hid and when his men needed reinforcements he refused to help, so they had to send men from miles away at a high cost. Source: Tim-Pat Coogan

[@fiachramaccana280]

Collins never fired a shot for Ireland either. The only time he ever used a gun was during his own assassination. Just the facts.

[@Realeye122]

It was Collins who went to Downing Street...

[@Dechieftian]

so did DeValera in the Summer of 1921 about four months before Griffith and Collins and the plenopontentiary team that Devalera had selected. DeValera sat as the lone Irish delegate with British PM David Lloyd George who at that time spelled out what could be offered and what would not be considered. I believe that is why he didn't go with Arthur Griffith. He knew what would be offered and he knew he would not be judged in history as the man who accepted 'too little'. He was of course wrong - history will continue to judge him harshly for that and for walking out on the ratification vote when his side lost the vote. That action I believe resulted in the civil war a few months later.

[@Realeye122]

@@Dechieftian what did de valera give us in 1937. An bunreacht 1937 63article clo gaelach font Constitution. And is the fundamental law of the land today. Regardless of there corruption of it. Article 15.4. 1.The oireachtas shall not enact any law repugnant to this constitution or any provisions thereof. Pursuant to article 52.2 and 63. Yes we haue 63 articles in our constitution. Not the 50 fully incorporated crown one on the shelves. My friend.

[@Realeye122]

De valera gaue us freedom, if you had a clue what you were talking ABOUT. HOW MANY ARTICLES DO YOU STAND UNDER?...... Now that's a trick question. If you can read. 63 articles, why do the gov hide this from the people... Don't worry pal you sit do your thing, the truth is coming. Soon. Its already all ouer persons like you are still at sea. 😂😂

[@brianbozo2447]

Collins was effectively the Irish JFK

[@dug8377]

I’d say he was more along the lines of a George Washington

[@MarkHarrison733]

@@dug8377 Collins was like Benedict Arnold.

[@MarkHarrison733]

Kennedy was a disaster.

[@stephenwright8824]

@@MarkHarrison733 No more nor less than Joe Biden.

[@MarkHarrison733]

@@stephenwright8824 Collins betrayed Ireland.

[@carmelmulroy6459]

The British couldn't shoot Dev as he was an American. Dev was a sneak who probably celebrated Collins death. Collins was younger and more popular and Dev was a control freak. He also paid condolences to the Nazis even though lots of Irish people had served on the American side in WWII.

[@Dechieftian]

well said. I agree, one hundred percent! Ireland would have fared far better had he stayed in America . His idea of an Ireland with freshly saved hay and the laughter of maidens in the fields getting reay to kneel down and say the Rosary. He allowed the Catholic Church to interfere with the business of State and allowed them to influence legislation that they in turn could use to their advantage.

[@colmmeade1824]

@@carmelmulroy6459 a long streak of misery who hid in America and came back and was president of our country twice - once was enough didn't do much for Ireland really

[@joprocter4573]

Great many served ireland and uk through ww2 as great men denied by republicanism.lot of foreigners involved in ireland.countess somebody and usa ppl all deluded

[@vcrossCelticfc]

Tom Clarke was a nationised US citizen yet they had no problem killing him.. Dev was a plant I will never understand why the Irish chose an American with a Spanish surname, beyond bizarre.

[@CharlesFleury-xd1ls]

Dev whose real name should be George X was “Englands Greatest Spy”.

[@danielofinan5071]

I love/hate Dev. He did put his life on the line for irish freedom many times. The man was literally sentenced to death and fought in the easter rising so you can't say he wasn't a true irish patriot. However he was offered the six counties during WW2 which would have been the united Ireland SO many generations of irish men and women died for in exchange for irish aid in defeating the Germans but DeValera stayed neutral and rejected it. He had it right there in his hands. For aid in a war in which, in the end, many irish men would die fighting in anyway. Would have prevented the troubles and so much pain and destruction. He also gave WAY too much power to the Catholic church which had very negative effects on the Irish psyche. I guess most people have complicated feelings about him.

[@markpower9081]

He was not offered the 6 counties.

[@danielofinan5071]

@@markpower9081 he was though

[@markpower9081]

@@danielofinan5071 He wasn't. Malcolm MacDonald merely stated that he thought Ireland's participation in the war would help bring about a United Ireland. It was a just an opinion, and an opinion based on nothing but wishful thinking. He also told the Irish government that the British government would not coerce Northern Ireland into joining a United Ireland. In other words, it wasn't going to happen, and de Valera knew it.

[@eireisrising]

If he had of taken that offer, éiRe would have been brought into world war 2..? he didn't want that for us, he wanted us to remain neutral... Unlike mr Martin of today..

[@pato2200]

If ireland had allowed british troops in less than two decades after the black and tans, ireland would have split, gine back to civil war, and resistance to the british. It was not, given ireland at that time, a feasible option. Churchill did offer a united ireland three times in fact, as the western ports were so vital, but it was not a realistic option given the splits in ireland a heavily armed unionist faction in the north which ultimately would not accept it.

[@jamesdoyle9758]

Really wanted to listen to this but couldnt manage the inane music. What is the music for? I had to quit.

[@seamusconnolly9710]

De Valera was a turncoat. He served himself.De Valera was a hero of De Valera

[@splinterbyrd]

He paid an official prime ministerial visit to the German Ambassador to offer his and the Irish People's condolences on the death of Adolf Hitler

[@stephenwright8824]

Something so many idiots mistake for his being a Nazi sympathiser.

[@Ellemerob]

Not because of any respect for Hitler but for Ireland's neutality and for the respect he had for the German ambassador to Ireland, Hempel. Didn't he do the same for FDR and Churchill?

[@splinterbyrd]

@@Ellemerob Ireland was already an independent and neutral state; why the need to proclaim it? If he'd wanted to offer his "condolences" to Dr Hempel he could have done so privately, and not publicly and on behalf of the Irish People (who weren't consulted.) Part of being an independent nation and being a responsible nation means being big enough to stand alongside other nations in the face of a common evil. This was just weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz, and he came in for alot of criticism from around the world, especially from America. De Valera's gesture just because the hated English had been at war with the Germans was not the statesmanship of the leader of a strong magnanimous independent nation, but the parochial small-mindedness of a bureaucrat from an unimportant little province. Which Ireland is not 🇮🇪

[@Ellemerob]

@@splinterbyrd ' ..a common evil..'' You're hilarious. Britain all over the world. France were still defending their empire in Asia 20 years after WW2 finished. Netherlands in Indonesia etc. Belgium in the Congo. Even Poland were robbing parts of Czechoslovakia. etc You explain to me what Germany had done in 1939 that made them worse than these empire building scum countries? Ireland stood with neither. Neutral

[@splinterbyrd]

​​@@EllemerobIreland was already a neutral sovereign nation, so why the need to advertise it? If he'd wanted to give his condolences to Dr Hempel he could have done so privately, and not publicly nor in the name of the Irish People (who weren't consulted) This was just weeks after the liberation of Auschwitz and the Holocaust was discovered. De Valera came in for a helluva lot of flak from around the world, especially from America, and didn't make a very good impression. To my knowledge no other neutral nations did the same. Part of being a strong independent sovereign nation is acting like one; which sometimes means standing alongside other strong nations against a common evil, and Hitler was an evil common to all. De Valera's conduct was not that of a strong independent nation, but one which used other people's suffering as a gesture against the hated English. In so doing he showed none of the statesmanship of a world leader, but the petty small-mindedness of a bureaucrat from an insignificant little province. Which Ireland isn't. 🇮🇪

[@patcarolan1]

Dev was an agent for the crown who was behind the murder of Collins

[@antadhg]

LOL

[@trina415]

I believe that also

[@Jean-rg4sp]

The English hated De Valera.

[@bissigerChristian]

@@trina415 Why?

[@conoshea241]

Absolutely no evidence de Valera behind the killing of Collins .If Daltons order to drive on had been obeyed its v v unlikely Collins would have died at all n Ireland a better country Personally I have very little time for de Valera his refusal to go to Treaty Talks esp as he had met Lloyd George for a week in July 1921 n knew exactly what was on the table his walk out of the Dail on ratification of same Treaty contributing to Civil War his statement on 1922 General Election Majority hasn't the right to be wrong I could go on n on but on the death of Collins I have to exclude him

[@janettedavis6627]

De Valera was born in America which made him also an American Citizen. That's why the Brits said "No more executions" America was watching.

[@christan.s]

Great heros have same way of thinking..Irish has got such a great hero and our leader subash chandra bose has huge respect on him

[@Currabell]

He refused to separate the state from the catholic church. An enormous mistake.

[@Dechieftian]

He like many others in Ireland was incapable of seeing the harm the Catholic Church perpetrated on the people of Ireland. He like the others was brainwashed by religion at an early age.

[@phil2003ashleigh]

Thousands of dead children would agree if only they had a voice. Total hypocrite who never admonished the same blame on the absent fathers. May he never rest at peace. Traitor and self gratification were his greatest traits.

[@Dechieftian]

I totally agree with your comment.

[@fiachramaccana280]

The people wanted it that way..... blame your grandparents

[@Cromwelldunbar]

Like it or not, this is a most excellent document, arguments most fully and fairly explained. Compliments indeed and well deserved. Many thanks, and full heartedly. But De Valera’s retort to Winston was abominably shameful - for he identified his People with the racist murder of people in Germany,Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, the USSR…et al…Shame be on your neutrality!

[@iainclark5964]

Michael Collins cpuld have united Ireland, De Valera condemned it to permanent division.

[@antadhg]

Dev's biggest problem was that he wasn't staunch enough in his Republicanism

[@maryheffernan2627]

Why did he survive ??

[@nejuw]

He was an American citizen.

[@phil2003ashleigh]

TUAM TUAM TUAM TUAM TUAM: There is your ideology Dev. Careerist first, backstabber second, Irishman never. Lion led by a lamb paid the ultimate price.

[@fiachramaccana280]

yeah and regale us with what you ever did for Ireland????

[@ciarandoyle4349]

Disheveled prisoners? Yes, the Irish rank and file wore improvised combat clothing between 1916 and 1921. However, the Irish senior officers wore neat uniforms during the 1916 rebellion, and neat civillian suits during the War of Independence. (Why wear uniform when the enemy were known to kill uniformed prisoners?)

[@JayJay-vb7om]

For someone who was glad that the British stopped political executions when it came to him, he sure didn't hold back on executions of his fellow Irish. Strange sense of humor, that Devalera had

[@Touhou-forever]

I have no respect for Eamon De Valera he only cared about himself and not Ireland he disagreed with Michael Collins's idea of making peace with Britain not to mention he was the one who started Irish Civil War so that's the reason why I have no respect for him.

[@declan1278]

Well said

[@Touhou-forever]

@@declan1278 I mean don't get me wrong he did some good things but it is difficult for to recognize those good things because of his ego and arrogance

[@internetual7350]

He disagreed with Michael Collins' stance on the Treaty that is true but so did such great leaders like Constance Markievicz, the Civil War was a battle between brother and sister, neighbour and co-worker, patriot vs patriot and De Valera was undeniably a man of principle, he was a selfless patriot of Ireland as shown through his open defiance of Britain first during the Civil War and later with his actions during the Second World War where he spared our great nation from the black spectre of Nazism and British imperialism. The two greatest evils to ever befall humanity, and Ireland chose justice and peace.

[@freedomunltd]

@@internetual7350In which case he should have gone to those negotiations in London himself and not sent Michael Collins there to do the work which Michael himself said, meant ‘signing his own death warrant’. DeValera knew exactly what it meant for Michael, by sending him to London, it’s why he didn’t go there himself. As for DeValera, his complete capitulation to, and absolute deference to the Pope and the Catholic Church’s involvement in Irish life, brought misery to millions of people in Ireland for generations where even dancing and music was regarded as sinful with women regarded as secondclass citizens and the Pope’s dictat, ‘that what God has joined together, let no man put asunder’ causing despair for hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens for decades whilst the violence through corporal punishment, meted out to schoolchildren along with the hidden sexual abuse of these children also, which lasted up to the 1990’s, destroyed the lives of countless children and families. So one regime of repression was exchanged for another.

[@pato2200]

De Valera did not reject peace with britain but did reject the terms of the treaty collins made, which accepted partition and did not achieve the republic.

[@carljacobs1260]

De Valera didn't save Ireland from the bombs. Winston Churchill did. Ireland's survival depended 100% on British victory. There wasn't any negotiating with the Wehrmacht. And where was Ireland in 1940?

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Died for Ireland?

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

A wanted man?

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

He liked Arch Bishop John Charles McQuaid a bit too much.

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Arch Bishop McQuaid was a pedophile

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Me, me me

[@normanmeharry58]

Dev was the go-getter of the Catholic Ireland myth. Noncatholics were tolerated as long as they kept a low profile or were very rich & useful. Dev & the Bishop of Dublin ruled Ireland like a kindergarten.

[@fiachramaccana280]

cry me a river.... for almost 300 years Catholics weren't even allowed to practice their religion...... yet you are strangely silent on that. Non Catholics did extremely well in the Republic of Ireland. They still own all the big houses. I never met a poor Protestant in the Republic. When I left university in 1986 I tried to get a job in Dublin as a stockbroker. It was made very clear to me that as a Irish Catholic I didn't stand a chance. All the partners in Ireland's brokerage community were either Protestant or Catholic Norman (old English). All good old rugby players. And my Gaelic surname didn't fit. Meanwhile UK is still run as a Protestant country where a Catholic cannot be King...by law.... so basically F Off!!!

[@Dechieftian]

sad but true.

[@brianmorgan5739]

It is a bit ironic that British criticism is still persistent to this day concerning Irish independence and it's leaders is still present. Yet let the World stage pay witness to the oppression and systematic murder by British authorities that was forced upon the Irish in the same manner as a yoke is placed upon the shoulder of draft horses pulling a heavy load uphill. Sure it is easy to villainize Eamon Devilera, Michael Collins, Parnell and Shaw, but. Has your noble British society villanized the likes of Oliver Cromwell or Margret Thatcher and their authoritarian forms of Government? I as the nephew of an IRB Brigade member have no sympathy what so ever for those of RIC or British Military whom were ambushed and killed. For it was the British whom were the invaders and occupiers of Ireland for 750 years.

[@declan1278]

Like wase you have said the truth

[@MarkHarrison733]

Modern historians agree Cromwell did nothing wrong in Ireland.

[@stephenwright8824]

@@MarkHarrison733 Modern historians are no less human than historians from any other time. Which means they can be dead wrong. Remember how Himmler's "experts" distorted the truth?

[@tommurphy3671]

I love what you have said here and how you said it. I agree with you 1 million percent

[@joprocter4573]

Other way round there was no irish in scotti a land erosion of west coast of GB they were Anatolia invaders of part of Britain

[@johnbrendanoneill1029]

It wasn't develara made the decision it was the irish people

[@paulmooney5126]

I don't think the story of De Valera's escape from Lincoln is told well here. See: 'Peter's Key - Peter De Loughrey and the fight for Irish Independence by Declan Dunne (Mercier Press, 2012)

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

No comtraception back then

[@sparkyhughes131]

The career politician of his day

[@fiachramaccana280]

Collins brought home a bad treaty in 1921. De Valera brought home a great treaty in 1937. This "he would have found a way" nonsense in relation to Collins uniting Ireland is just that. Pure nonsense. Collin's way was to continue military action in the North using northern volunteers like my grandfather. It would have been a bloodbath as the IRA was hopelessly outnumbered. And the main brunt would have been borne by Catholic civilians. De Valera was a lot wiser and realised that was a no go. I have the greatest respect for both of them. But I am tired of this demonizing of De Valera and canonization of Collins. Collins was a military genius but not a great politician. In dealing with the British; De Valera ran rings around them. And the British ran rings around Collins. Harsh truth. Time to accept it.

[@stephenwright8824]

33:48 Opulence is death, and here Churchill proved it.

[@abacus749]

14.18mins You are airbrushing over all the republicans from 1916 that Collins ordered to be assassinated. Collins never even fired a shot in 1916.

[@mattrogers7521]

What Republicans from 1916 did Collins order the assassination of ?.

[@robdevenney]

Christ... what is the craic with the editing of this video? Sentences cut off with jarring smash cuts!

[@JohnLandau-rg4gh]

The claim that DeValera was secretly a British agent despite his revolutionary reputation is plausible. That he was released from prison by the British less than ayear after they sentenced him to death is suspicious. So is hiis escape from a British jail we he was rearrested a short time later.

[@leprechaun7667]

One thing you can definitely be sure of. Anything from mainstream media sources i wouldnt trust!

[@markpower9081]

Why trust the non-mainstream media?

[@stephenwright8824]

@@markpower9081 I smell a sycophant of the Stupid Hitler, aka Donald John Trump. That's boilerplate MAGA rhetoric, so it is.

[@alanocallaghan2883]

The treaty with Britain was signed by devalera before Collins even set foot at downing St. Britain's price for home rule was collins head . Devalera the politician could be bargained with but collins the revolutionary could not . Not fact but just an opinion .

[@Dechieftian]

Interesting opinion .. a bit wild mind you!

[@Dechieftian]

An opinion you are most entitled to. Pretty wild though!

[@stephenwright8824]

@@Dechieftian Personally I think it's crap.

[@phil2003ashleigh]

I’d agree too

[@johnpurcell7525]

That fella caused disastrous Civil war then Economic war 1930s Kept country backward population at Lowest since 1700s time he finished

[@Dechieftian]

Listening to Terry De Valera ( Son of Eamon De Valera ) recall the 'uncanny' manner in which his father made 'momentous decisions' with extraordinary rapidity can be best summed up in a single word. Only one word is required. Delusional. The harsh reality of the 'dead hand' of De Valera and his cabinet created for so many decades an inept and impotent economy. A time when so many of Ireland''s best and brightest left Ireland never to return. Hardly the work of a man credited in Terry De Valera as endowed with ' A God given gift of leadership' .. such nonsense. De Valera combined with the toxic nature of the Catholic prelates in Ireland .. single handidly ruined the new economy and furture of the new state. I t would take decades for the nation to emerge from his 'leadership' and 'charisma.

[@jaqmart]

As one of those who left Ireland never to return I think there's a lot of truth in this.

[@Dechieftian]

@@jaqmart Sadly, that is the case. Thanks for your reply.

[@richardshiggins704]

Totally agree with your summation .

[@Dechieftian]

@@richardshiggins704 I appreciate your reply. Thankfully, the Ireland of today continues to stand among the nations of the world , a free independent country that found it's way forward after such a brutal and challenging begining. I hope the country enjoys continous prosperity into the future.

[@helloschoales]

Repress Ireland for decades with his idea of Ireland!

[@adrianainespena5654]

And yet it was thanks to him that Sean Lemass became Prime Minister. Lemass was just another terrorist until de Valera took him under his wing.

[@tariqkhader6196]

He sent a condolence letter after Hitler "died". Enough said.

[@Teh_Goat]

Listen The 12th Doctor narrates

[@mickmoriarty7372]

The unionist s would have never giving up the north in 45 ...dev knew that so did Churchill

[@MichaelDaly-s2n]

The British government could not shoot de De Valera because he was American born. Go Read yer book 📖 again.

[@mrgabagoo580]

The claim that reunification was really offered is such an incredible lie that it discredits the entire documentary. The offer was so vague and cryptic as to be completely ridiculous. Dev is in no way guilty for rejecting a bizarre message from that drunkard in London.

[@kevinmorgan8534]

Even if reunification were offered there's no guarantee that Britain would have kept it's word. Churchill was a well known liar

[@paulneedham9885]

That drunkard kept Hitler at bay when the rest of Europe fell. He couldn’t even accept a democratic vote.

[@Anonymousxxiiii]

Eamon De Valera makes Benedict Arnold look like a saintly altar boy.

[@joprocter4573]

He broke and kept broke ireland just as mc started a day of horror but blamed fellow citizens

[@nova77791]

He allowed ego to get in his way. Better had he become a martyr

[@stephenwright8824]

Dev was: *Crazy from Boland's Mill to the day he died.* And I don't buy the crap about him not wanting, ultimately, to become a priest. If he had, it would have been better for all concerned.

[@olliephelan]

It was standard diplomatic practice to write a letter of condolences. DeValera never did that. He visited the embassy with his minister of external affairs.

[@richardshiggins704]

Hitler was no diplomat !!

[@mrgabagoo580]

Another lie. As far as I recall the constitution did not recognize a woman's place as in the home but declared that women should not be forced out of the home by the economic necessity to work. It may sound similar, but the reality is that one formulation of words legalizes the oppression of women while the second liberates and empowers women by giving them the freedom to choose work or family. Ireland did not fulfill it's constitutional promise, but the principle was admirable. It is an aberration of modern feminism to force women into the workplace - the reality of traditional feminism and the desire of the majority of women is to be enabled to choose how much time to devote to their children and how much time to devote to work.

[@sean_d]

ARTICLE 41 starts off: "The State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved." The second part then deals with what you refer to, "The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home." It is fair to say it implies that women have a special role in the home that men do not have and that mothers should be at home.

[@PlushyPlay1]

Anyone in Ireland who thinks he's a hero forget quick he let the Catholic church do as they pleased it's also hilariously ironic McGuiness saying of de Valera what I say of him today

[@nickmacdonald9535]

Because of de Valera the Catholic Church had so much power that the Republic was almost a theocracy.

[@Dechieftian]

While it may seem far fetched at first glance .. If one should wonder what Ireland was like in the era of De Valera and his ilk .. look no further than the Islamic Republic of Iran. When rabid religious doctrine is shrouded in public policy and practise you end up with leading government officials like the Ayatollah Khomeini and Eamon De Valera and His Eminence John Charles McQuaid and the Mullahs and Parish Priests. All pretty much the same thing in a different language.

[@declanfeeney7004]

The catholic church already had deep power in the country. There is much to dislike about De Valera but the Idea that he singlehandedly introduced and then forced Catholicism on Ireland is just pure delusion.

[@richardshiggins704]

Dev and the Ayatollah McQuaid .

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Why did DeValera go to Trinity College if he was so Roman Cathölic?

[@angusyates828]

Complex individual.

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Frugal?

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

DeValera was living in the past

[@williamwallace4924]

De Valera good irish name, hee hee hee ha ha ha. And Collins is a Norman French name.

[@stellabutler-g2y]

Small man

[@jojokeavy2835]

The British could not shoot him.... he's was born in America 📖.

[@kamilksiazek8019]

Great but complex man. He opposed the treaty with British which led to the civil war, that was his only but big mistake.

[@Oakeedokee7]

De Valera allowed for Jews in Ireland to be sent to concentration camps, and gave condolences to Hitler when he died, in the name of "neutrality". I am Irish myself, and I will never forget the heroes who fought for us, but De Valera did a ton of terrible things which tarnish his legacy

[@kamilksiazek8019]

@@Oakeedokee7 in The Times of Israel (sic!) I'm reading sth exactly opposite about Jews: "A proposal to admit 100 Jewish orphans from Bergen-Belsen was initially blocked and only proceeded after de Valera’s personal intervention. Perhaps this was the prime minister’s way of atoning for his decision the previous year to visit the German ambassador to offer his condolences on Hitler’s death."

[@mx2000]

De Valera will forever be infamous for being the only world leader giving condolences to Germany at Hitlers death. This was right after the images of the concentration camps made the news, mind you. His censorship machine spent the whole war downplaying German atrocities to justify his version of neutrality. He also instated harsh punishment for any Irish who fought in the British army against the Nazis.

[@markpower9081]

@@Oakeedokee7 Irish Jews didn't go to concentration camps - I don't know where you got that from.

[@stephenwright8824]

@@markpower9081 Right. If anything, DeValera offered the Jews in Europe refuge from the Nazis.

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Strange way of treating women no sex

[@markcodd3296]

Treachery..and comely maidens Dev

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

A U-Boat

[@stuartrobertson4714]

Remember Churchill was going to give up Scotland to the Germans if the Germans over powered ffs he even heated Dundee

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Sorry 'Uncle Hitler"?

[@gillcelt]

Stakeknife

[@hughmcginley8929]

Not a fan.

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Stiffled

[@mickmoriarty7372]

Dev pla ned in cork .. lets be real

[@AnnetteMurphyger]

Serfs?

[@damienholden2132]

Ðo the mathematics

[@lordkorner]

Terrible editing

[@daveocarroll7013]

Not a hero

[@SamSam-wj5nd]

He was a bad person same as the rest of them

[@brianodwyer4198]

Really bad documentary with americams talking saying superficial bs

[@stephenwright8824]

Were you and I watching the same video? I heard a lot more British accents than American ones. I actually don't remember hearing ANY American accents. The British have, as a race, yet to expunge that part of their character that tells them they have an absolute right to some part of Ireland. That's where the bs you think the few Americans in this video are spouting, comes from.

[@joeoconnor5400]

This has been edited?

[@stephenwright8824]

Probably. Probably heavily edited.

[@1982violinist]

He was never a hero .. Just a traitor