Rescue Methods FR1: Water Rescue - Throwbag Fundamentals

[@alexic0n]

thank you, this was a very helpful video. particularly the demonstration of how the victim should receive the rope.

[@alexanderschooler579]

Is there a throw bag you would recommend I can keep in my car just as a regular person?

[@winstonsmiths2449]

Wow, what a great video! I will have a throw-bag ready for my travels. Southern California, EVERY year people get swept away by flooded in cement viaducts and flash-flooded creek and riverbeds. May be a one in a million that I would have to use it but it is a cheap form of insurance. I assume that a nylon rope is being used? Or at least some type of synthetic rope that is buoyant?

[@alexandrevaliquette3883]

1:22 If a figure 8 is a NFPA requirement, I would like to see the reference number. A knot take 3 second to make. And the knot should only allow a biner to clip in it. The loop is way to large in this video. I've been trained many times with 3 different whitewater rescue organisation and met about 12 instructors and all of them strongly advise to have a free rope with no knot. I'm a former mine rescue technician (firefighter + first aid + hazmat + ice) and an active 20 years whitewater rescue instructor in Canada. And yeah, I can count at least one casualty directly related to a knot who got entangle underwater. A free rope would have avoid the death of that experienced raft guide. Other than that, I TRULY appreciate when other instructor post their video. We are all learning from each others and make our training better every time. Alexandre Valiquette

[@wildernesscanoeassociation]

I take the side of not having any knots.

[@rogerf3622]

Very good video. Thx.

[@amycaperchione1138]

Hi there, this video is perfectly informative. May I use this content on my website? I won’t use without your permission. Thank you

[@nickteague8620]

Can i get a digital copy of this video?! I would like to incorporate it into my Swift Water Training course for my company (Texas Public Service Training Academy). Very detailed, thorough, and effective guys 👍🏻

[@darthtrump4428]

hi did you get it? if not, just type into your browser : yt to mp4 converter and copy the video link, be sure the video quality matches your needs

[@mattphelan2644]

Oh man they aren't ready for the creaturecraft LOL. see you guys at Gauley 2017

[@lukesince89]

Wow... This video is scary. There are so many issues that i have with this. For starters, knots in the rope?! The "clean line principle" is one of the most basic safety fundamentals out there and widely accepted as best practice. I have personally attended a fatality caused by ignoring this so i find it mind blowing to see a so called professional rescue training provider advocating a knot in the rope!! Shocking to say the least.

[@RescueMethods]

Luke - Thanks for your input. I'm guessing you are not a firefighter but i could be wrong. The knot in the line is a pre-rigged element that is a component of NFPA compliant throw bags. All compliant set ups come from the manufacturers with the hand loop knot shown in the video. The knot also serves to make quick connections for grab devices, two and four point tethers, and MCP ferry attachments in some cases. This is a consensus standard and set up not just nationally but internationally within the technical rescue and emergency services community. I appreciate your perspective on clean lines and we are strong advocates of that philosophy for other rope based applications, but we teach to NFPA and international compliance standards and applications and have never experienced a negative outcome from the handle knot in either live rescues or training applications. As an international trainer and member of the NFPA community, We would be very interested in hearing more about the fatality you were a part of that involved a throw line with a knot in the end so that we can learn from your experience and avoid whatever the contributing factors were. It may present an opportunity to change the standard if it is compelling enough. Thanks again and we look forward to your response.

[@lukesince89]

Whilst not a fire fighter, I have a large amount of experience as a white water professional, spending more of my adult working life in swift water than on dry land! In addition to this I have been involved in, trained and trained with mountain rescue and mountain rescue personelle for a number of years. I currently hold the Advanced Swift water and Flood Rescue technician from Rescue 3 International, the Advanced Whitewater Safety and Rescue from British Canoeing and the White water Rescue technician from Boreal River rescue. As well as this I am a provider for the BC WWSR certification. Having worked throughout the UK, Europe, Asia and Canada what you say regarding the loop of rope is simply not true. Whilst it is certainly the case that many manufacturers set up their ropes this way, i have never come across a professional service, whether that is firefighters or river professionals who advocate this practice before and it is often immediately removed after purchase. As I say I am shocked to find one. In regards to the incident mentioned, we came across a subject tangled in her own throwline, dragged beneath the water when the "handle" in the end of her rope became wedged between rocks. She was unable to free herself and drowned. Whilst I understand that a fixed loop may be useful to attach a device to, I would never advocate a rope being set up in this way. If a loop is needed, it should be added at the time and a device attached there and then. How long does it really take for you to add a knot in the rope if needed?? I am also shocked to see your instructor wearing a snap link carabiner. Something else that is not accepted practice and a huge and unnecessary risk. There are several other videos on KZbin demonstrating why. Thanks for taking the time to respond and I hope you will review your practices based upon my comments.

[@RescueMethods]

I appreciate your insight and your background. We have worked with many groups who also have mountaineering and white water based backgrounds and often find variables and differing techniques and perspectives from the US based federal guidelines for fire rescue organizations - particularly with water and high angle. Interesting hearing our different exposure experiences - in 16 years of training, we have never encountered a fire rescue group in the US or abroad who had a passionate opposition to hand loops. We don't advocate loops, we simply advocate proper use of the loop because it is a component of the NFPA compliant throw bag. Most fire based rescue teams in the US would not alter an NFPA compliant piece of gear. It's always neat to dialogue and get a different perspective. It can always lead to improvements or at least respectful understandings. We are a training group that operates pretty stringently according to NFPA guidelines and US based fire side approaches. We definitely pick up a lot of variations from other backgrounds and agencies but we typically use them as underlays. It sounds like you have some pretty strong opinions that are well founded based on your working environment and your background. We have whitewater instructors on staff that are prevalent guides in the US and the the hand loop has never been a significant issue within the federal guideline community or when we train groups abroad - its compelling to hear how strongly the consensus is within your working community on the loops. I know it is a passionate point with R3 and I know we definitely have some different approaches. We just got back from conducting a train the trainer for an international group that was previously R3 trained. We operate in a more diverse environment it sounds like that involves dive, ice, flat water, surf, and swift water and strictly military and fire based rescue organizations as clients, so I can definitely see where we are not as swift water focused with some of our gear and technical applications and may have some approaches that may not be shared or endorsed by the strictly swift water / mountaineering community. We do a lot of motorized craft work as well. Thanks for sharing your opinion - Ill make sure we evaluate your perspective for further analysis - Appreciate your passion.

[@bl8danjil]

Luke Partridge where and when did that incident take place so I can read up on the specifics.

[@JPoleet]

Luke, Nothing you have said comports with reality and I am on the water every day, every single guide, kayaker, rescue personal has this setup, and NOBODY in the history of humanity to my knowledge has had a problem with it. You must be looking for attention. Locking carabiners are standard. Pure whataboutry.

[@adrianonzures1322]

🔥🫡

[@civil98]

This is not Metro State Rescue, whew