Resolved: The Government Should Cut Off All Funding to Colleges and Universities

Should all government funding of higher education be abolished?
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On May 14, 2018, that provocative resolution was debated by economists Edward Glaeser and Bryan Caplan, author of the new book, The Case Against Education: Why the Education System is a Waste of Time and Money. Two main arguments dominated the discussion. First, was the humanistic question: Is government support needed to foster new ideas and cultural expression? Second, the economics of the matter: Does the hundreds of billions in annual government funding to American universities and colleges benefit the country by boosting the earnings and productivity of its citizens?
Caplan is a professor of economics at George Mason University, research fellow at the Mercatus Center, and adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute. His other books include The Myth of the Rational Voter and Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think. He holds a Ph.D. in economics from Princeton University.
Edward Glaeser argued against the resolution. A professor of economics at Harvard University, where he has taught since 1992, Glaeser has served as director of the Taubman Center for State and Local Government, and director of the Rappaport Institute for Greater Boston. His academic work has focused on zoning, housing policy, and urbanism, and he's the author of the 2012 book Triumph of the City: How Our Greatest Invention Makes Us Richer, Smarter, Greener, Healthier, and Happier.
The Soho Forum, which Reason sponsors, is a monthly Oxford-style debate, meaning that the audience votes before and after the proceedings, and the debater who has moved the most people prevails. In this case, Caplan won by convincing 12 percent of the audience to switch over to his side.
The opening act was comedian Dave Smith, host of the podcast Part of the Problem.
Visit the archive of past Soho Forum events.
Next month, watch law professors Randy Barnett and Michael Dorf debate the following resolution: "The U.S. Constitution should be interpreted and applied according to the original meaning communicated to the public by the words of the text." The debates are held at the SubCulture Theater in Manhattan's East Village. Tickets here.
To listen to an audio podcast version of the Soho Forum, subscribe to the Reason Podcast at iTunes.
"Massive" by Podington Bear is licensed under a Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 International License.
Produced by Todd Krainin.

[@sonictech1000]

It bears repeating that being against government education is not the same as being against education.

[@sonictech1000]

Straight White Male No it isn't, not even a little bit. I'm also against the Gov being the primary provider of food, clothing, and housing, not because I want the poor and working classes to go around naked and starving but because the free market has a track record of providing more goods and services to more people at lower cost than Gov.

[@sonictech1000]

09mrmarshall The public schools in America we're created to produce obedient soldiers and factory workers. In case you hadn't noticed the public schools are doing a horrible jjob of educating the poor.

[@sonictech1000]

To recap then we agree that withholding education is bad for the poor and that the current public education system is doing exactly this (your excuses for why not withstanding). You support this system that we both agree is keeping the poor down and I oppose it in favor of a free market system that I believe would provide better education to nearly everyone, including the poor. I'm not claiming that a free market system would be perfect, that's an absurd strawman, only that it is the best system currently known for providing the most goods/services to the most people and therefore would serve education far better than the existing broken system.

[@MrApplewine]

Also, schooling isn't education. It is fake education. Government schooling even worse because it is compulsive and subsidized fake education.

[@travistarp7466]

@09mrmarshall Charter schools on average do better.. So do private schools. I think schools in general disenfranchise a good percent of people, my public highschool removed all trade classes except for ceramics.. Schools see college as the only route, I can remember numerous times when teachers said, 'that kid isn't going to college' as an insult. Most careers require refined skills and narrow knowledge, while college teaches mostly general knowledge(especially undergrad). I enjoyed my history and psych classes I was required to take, but I could have learned history and psych on my own time. A four year degree really could be condensed to 1-2 years. Also, lectures are a really poor way to learn, imo, the best way is by doing.

[@JazzEKeez]

The shortened title in my sub feed was "resolved; the government should stop all funding" I was like, "that seems a bit extreme, but I'm open to it in principle..."

[@ExPwner]

Sure, privatize all of the things. Check out David Friedman's Machinery of Freedom if you haven't already seen it.

[@abramgaller2037]

Stopping all funding is cool!

[@mehrshadvr4]

James Adams then everyone have to pay even more and owe even more money (if they can even get financing since without guaranteed return they won't Finance student without any credit history) to get educated. We already have people who can't pay their student loans. Lol

[@davidhunt7427]

College tuitions went up entirely due to the Federal government funding student loans. Get rid of government financing and college tuitions would fall back again. I graduated in 1977 with a Masters of Science and my father was able to pay for it entirely out of pocket.

[@mehrshadvr4]

David Hunt actually this is opposite of what actually happened. Government cut spending and banks took over but banks won't Finance without guaranteed return so government guaranteed the banks and that's why you cannot file bankruptcy on student loan.

[@mattobermiller5041]

Most of the people I know with college degrees haven't cracked a non-fiction book since graduating. So much for "learning how to learn" and "higher education."

[@aoeu256]

I did... partly because I was unemployed when I graduated in 2010...

[@DiogoVKersting]

I also did, but I believe I would have done it regardless of going or not through college. (That's just the nature of the IT market)

[@ryanlemmers5300]

I read a lot more non fiction prior to getting a BA. After a second master’s, I pretty much only watch KZbin videos

[@TheCoconutCookie]

Caplan got more reaction out of the audience than the comedian did

[@MBarberfan4life]

Caplan is a funny dude

[@heteroerectus]

that wasn't a comedian that was dave smith

[@seriekekomo]

He is funny cause he is right

[@stoplyingabout]

The comedian was a joke ironically.

[@jwinaccount]

Never in my life have I seen such a civil yet impassioned debate. What a relief! Kudos to Bryan and Ed!

[@LetsBuildThatApp]

If higher education was so beneficial to society, imagine how amazing we'd be if all of our students didn't have to drag themselves to classes and actually spent those 4 years seeking true higher education. If I could get my 5 years of college back and spend it on something more enriching than silly classes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The problem with colleges is that you only realize how useless the whole ordeal is after you get your diploma. No one really cares about the information you were able to retain, only that you are a fast learner and can deliver what the master wants from you.

[@travistarp7466]

Higher education has its place, but its stupid to push everyone into it and look down upon people that don't go.

[@Navy35]

Travis Tarp like on the movie: good will hunting. People drop $160,000 on a worthless degree when they could have spent $1.50 on late fees at the public library

[@seanrea550]

The question i want to ask 3 years after the fact is what is the ultimate goal of education and is there a diminishing return to education. If there is a society that has had no mass education and introduce mass education occurs there is going to be a return.

[@AcidiFy574]

Like what streaming video games & screaming like a madman ???

[@elliotaxelman2767]

Nearly every person I know with college degrees has lots of debt, few skills, and a job that does not require their degree or training (or lack thereof).

[@kyleolson9636]

That is most likely a product of your environment. Every person with a degree that I know directly used their skills gained in college in their careers and have been very successful. But that is because I have been successful enough that all my close coworkers and neighbors are also successful. If I worked in a low skill trade in a low to mid-income area, most likely all the college graduates I knew would have not used their degree to become successful. If they had, they wouldn't work with me or live close to me.

[@2vnews902]

Government is best at misallocating capital and suppressing freedom. This applies to government in education: running schools, backing student loans and any and all other funding for education.

[@2vnews902]

What happens when companies misallocate capital and what happens when governments does it? Government does not protect your freedom that is the problem, it slowly takes it away, little by little, law by law, regulation by regulations, tax by tax.

[@nekogaming1715]

@@2vnews902 Business go bankrupt, if it's government, they just get more funding via taxpayer's so, in that sense, inefficiency in business means bankrupt.

[@neilwiththereeldeel]

it's not just a government problem...the problem is school itself. It needs to be gotten rid of. Period. This is not a government vs free market issue so good job, pseudo intellectual libertarian mentally deficient parasite...social democracy is still the only way to go...maybe the brilliant Chicago School would say different, the existence is which is EXACTLY WHY education is BS...or at least a big part of the reason 😂😂

[@joebobjenkins7837]

I know PhDs I wouldn't trust to take my order at chick fill a. I know people without a degree id trust to design a ship. It's all about the metrics used to determine competency.

[@spec24]

The pro government support of colleges sounds simply like the "who will build the roads" argument. "Studies have shown that roads allow people to travel faster, farther than in areas where there aren't roads. Therefore, government must provide roads."

[@victoriamarulanda5639]

Exactly! In my community, we paved the road that has mutile holes and cracks on it. Yes it was expensive, but we did it 1/4 of the price in only 3 months.

[@meastonjohnston2854]

Comedian is done at 11:05.

[@matstewart7117]

Thank you, it was upsetting my stomach watching him pause for non existent laughter...

[@AceDude944]

Comedian?

[@nahiag]

Who whould skip Dave Smith ;)

[@calinbraic5037]

Is this peak libertarian humor?

[@fuckingSickOfCreepyG]

he bombed like he was a Nobel peace prize POTUS

[@NoelFallstrom]

I like how the debate was effectively a question of, "Should we eliminate federal funding for higher education or simply slash it to a small percentage of its current level?" I'd be happy if the ideas of either of these people were implemented because they are both going in the right direction. Just as I would vote for any spending bill that reduces spending overall (not just a reduction in the amount of increase). I'm not going to vote no on a reduction because it doesn't reduce as much as I would like. I'm happy to take baby steps.

[@readrothbard153]

Noel Fallstrom i thought the same thing myself lol, just debating the degree... That said i would advise you don't vote for anything, especially anything or anyone on ballots... voting for who won this debate i cam support ;)

[@watchdealer11]

Edward is actually quite reasonable and rational. I'd consider him a moderate. I'd wish they would have gotten a third party who wanted to massively expand government education spending.

[@halykan]

Well, it's the SoHo forum, so it's hard to find someone sufficiently big-government who'd be willing come down and get booed by libertarians for an hour.

[@joebobjenkins7837]

Tocqueville mentioned how super educated americans were. Jefferson complained that college students barely spoke Latin and barely read Greek. Clearly public education has greatly advanced our standards.

[@readrothbard153]

That creepy uncle we all have... uncle Sam... this is fiscal harassment, they keep touching my assets!

[@jayguti9658]

I am currently studying Actuarial MATHEMATICS (don't confuse that with Actuarial Science) at a good value university. In order to get a Bachelors you need at least 120 Credit Hours. I am going to be very honest. Only about 57 CREDIT HOURS are useful for my career. I include three courses for economics, and an upper level English course that allowed me to put some BS about actuarial studies in my resume. I seriously think the USA should stop with the whole "we want a well rounded student." Learning about classical literature and the arts won't make me a better candidate for a job. How about you save me and other tax payers money so that once I ACTUALLY get a good job I can go to museums and travel to learn about the humanities ? It felt nice to get that off my chest.

[@victoriamarulanda5639]

The main argument for this classes, and I encourage you to see William Derezwitchs talk in Aspen about what is college for, is that those classes align with religious studies and philosophy are meant to be used to give you a space to become a “moral being”. Colleges in the past had this as a main mission rather than getting you a job.

[@liberval9425]

Standup ends at 11:04

[@flamefusion8963]

Thanks. I heard two minutes from him. Not really funny.

[@dranelemakol]

Who the fuck does stand up before a debate lmao

[@ilovecoffee7623]

> Vietnam ranks at the top of science, math and reading, yet they are extremely poor country. The reason why Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan became wealthy is because of their economic model called The East Asian Economic Model which is a form of State Capitalism. An export-driven model. It has nothing to do with education. > Russia scores higher than US on Math, Science and Reading, yet Russia is a lot poorer than the US. > The reason why some of the former Warsaw Pack countries are now rich and democratic is not because of better schooling, which does play a role, but it is mostly because they were successful in reforming their judicial system and opening up their economy. There are a lot of specific factors that need to be looked at that varies depending on the country. Kazakhstan did not had a change in their political elite after the fall of communism, the same oligarchs remained in power, and they are a lot more dependent economically on Russia. > Abolishing government funding for universities does not mean abolishing higher education. Most of the top universities in the US are private. > Education and Schooling are two different things. > More schooling does not mean more productivity. Japan ranks at the top of every education index, yet they are 5 times less productive than America.

[@UnchainedEruption]

Wow I’ve actually cited some of Mr. Glaeser’s work in research for college papers. That’s cool to see him in person here. And I remember Mr. Caplan from his time on the Rubin Report.

[@2vnews902]

Government involved equals: Inflation of prices, expectations and self-worth.

[@dsgio7254]

For example the guy who is saying why children are taught art and music when they don't know how to write or read. He is completely ignorant of the very elementary science who points out how music and arts contribute to academic success.. ..This is elementary...

[@Ayo22210]

The problem is people that are skilled in the labor force don’t like training people that could replace them or oversaturate the market. If we could find a good way to train people up from the people who are already skilled. But I think the most important thing is for people to find their own creative skill that they enjoy doing.

[@1derss]

The Soho Forum broadcasts its live events only to Facebook, not KZbin. If you want to view past videos, you are required to have a Facebook login. Nope nope nope, hey Soho, get a clue.

[@matt69nice]

Get your tinfoil hats out, people

[@1232bluejays]

Its not that all higher education is bad but possibly many degrees don't give people employable skills.

[@williamofdallas]

lmao why did they start the debate with a standup routine

[@NavaidSyed]

Prosperity due to Capitalism led to more spending on education, not vice versa. Absolutely true.

[@AChungusAmongUs]

When I saw the thumbnail for this video, I thought the guy with the glasses was Andy Dick.

[@matt69nice]

They really should have left the 'comedy' out. The guy is clearly a poor storyteller, and I'd like to think that there are better libertarian comedy lines than generalisations like 'aren't college kids just the worst' ffs

[@llamasarus1]

I've met too many people where I try to start a conversation with them on that main subject that there college major is about and they are not interested in conversing about it. You'd think if your going to college for something you'd be obsessed over it enough to talk for hours on it but I guess not.

[@lifeisneverthesame910]

true....... absolutely true!!!

[@tacokoneko]

me reading the title: yus pls want me 2 minutes in: oh god who is this man like why pls no _skips to the debate start at __12:40_

[@thegreneknight]

bless you for that timestamp

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

Who gives a fuck? Shouldn't we be focused on the trillion dollar war machine? Education spending is peanuts by comparison.

[@bug5654]

"If it were mostly signalling, someone would have figured out a cheaper signal long ago." But would it be legal to discriminate on that signal like you can on education? Anyone is going to get laughed out of court saying that they were discriminated against when the guy that got the job has a PhD vs their GED, but an industry certificate might not fair so well - particularly if there is 'limited availability' of the certificate e.g. Employee-only....

[@MariaRaju]

"Separate college and state" .. best line

[@seancosgrove1]

Edward Glaeser claims that the difference between Seattle and Detroit is that Seattle has 50% college grads, while Detroit is 12%. So if we take half of the high school grads in Detroit and throw them into college and force them to get passing grades, that fixes the problem?

[@DaDankStrafe]

The statement “more educated countries are more productive” is really a fallacy. That doesn’t mean that becoming more educated will turn your country more productive. As the other speaker says, we are now getting college degrees to do the same things our parents did with high school degrees. Secondly, formal secondary education is not the only education there is. You can be highly competent in your field with on the job training and have never been to college. It is clear that we have way too many kids going to college, and because of that and the government subsidies, it’s completely unaffordable.

[@spec24]

That guy needs to meet some of these "highly educated" Chinese kids. I've never met kids so good at getting high grades while at the same time being dumber than stumps. It is truly frightening. They are taught how to pass tests, not how to think, and it shows.

[@Romeo-le2ez]

I've also met intelligent people that are awful at social interactions, or they show a complete dependency on their parents

[@davidhunt7427]

If separation of church & state is a good idea, then separation of education & state is an even more imperative idea. If all institutions of education were to enjoy the same privileges and immunities that institutions of religion enjoy,... respect for education would again become the norm rather than being regarded as the trash bin it is treated as today.

[@homewall744]

Religion is faith-based. Education is the only path to success in a competitive world.

[@ExPwner]

Education from the state is also faith based. If you don't think it is then you're already in the religion of statism.

[@anarchic_ramblings]

"Education is the only path to success in a competitive world." Perhaps, but this isn't a debate about the value of 'education'; it's a debate about whether certain organisations in the USA should receive public funding.

[@sbdyson]

This was a really great debate, thank you so much for hosting it on KZbin Reason.

[@michaelsnater2345]

"Bad ideas just kind of dont go anywhere..." What on Earth kind of a statement is that? The Gulag was first an idea.

[@joebobjenkins7837]

What's wrong with working your way through college? You'll have a greater appreciation and spend your most labor productive years doing more manual work.

[@MariaRaju]

Excellent thoughts from Caplan.

[@elliotaxelman2767]

Also, this is like watching Lebron play 1 vs 1 basket basketball against Ben Shapiro. Caplan's arguments are infinitely better.

[@NavaidSyed]

Poor people need financial freedom, not the college debt.

[@victoriamarulanda5639]

Why should I have to pay for a service I’m not using?

[@Muonium1]

Don't cut off funding to Universities. Cut off funding to the trash fire that are humanities departments.

[@graphguy]

50% of college students shouldn't even be in college let alone my tax payor dollars paying for it.

[@noblephoenix6151]

Just rephrase "government funding" with "theft" and the argument becomes much more clear.

[@sangwoohan1177]

We should cut off all funding to Colleges and Universities except for stem programs.

[@flamefusion8963]

Good way to ruin STEM fields

[@bradstapleton6275]

I've watched a few Soho Forum Debates and I think the public questions in this one were the best I've ever seen.

[@coolhand1078]

State funded schooling is designed to school not educate.

[@flamefusion8963]

Except it does educate. It just doesn't teach. Learning facts, figures, and dates is useless if you don't understand what they mean.

[@coolhand1078]

Flame Fusion If the state pretends to teach the children pretend to be educated.

[@flamefusion8963]

cool hand What? 😂😂😂

[@coolhand1078]

Flame Fusion My point exactly.

[@financialstablility7196]

I went to college right out of high school. I had a good GPA and a pretty good SAT (3.5 and 1250 respectively). I went for a major in Comp Sci, and I failed my first two semesters. I wasn't ready both mentally and physically to be doing these things, but I got almost a full ride from the pell grant, a few other grants, and a small amount of stafford loans. Now I'm going back for a different major after some time to mature and I'm surprised that I still am eligible for pell grants and fed sub loans. It's ridiculous that I qualify, and of course I am happy. But do I really qualify for these?

[@nicmart]

Neither party's presentation was rich in evidence.

[@dsgio7254]

Here: The whole thing has been resolved in Finland : kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKinYqltaLRnjKs

[@watchdealer11]

The hug at the end was awesome.

[@DiogoVKersting]

Government funding or not, I feel like education desperately needs a revolution. In my personal experience there's just so much waste, and so little focus on stuff that actually matters. After I finished formal education I discovered a love for learning which is much greater than when that was able to dedicate full time to it. One video I love on this matter is "The Most Humiliating Event In Michio Kaku's Life": kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHLdgnqwjsqWp80

[@AcidiFy574]

So what are you doing to change it??

[@DiogoVKersting]

@@AcidiFy574 Non-governamental education is getting better and better all the time. KZbin is fantastic for learning things. As for working "within the system"... I don't really have high hopes for this approach. I just think the incentive structure is all messed up. My hope is that more and more parents start to home-school.

[@AcidiFy574]

@@DiogoVKersting How about this then ? Make education free (Freedom+cost-free) & how many YT tutorials are just honeypots to get you to sign up for a crappy bootcamp

[@alankwellsmsmba]

Bryan Caplin has recently once again been confirmed in his observations here. Harvard is but a hedge fund masquarding as an institution of higher learning.

[@maxheadrom3088]

And the Harvard guy dropped the ax and picket the whip up! haha I must tell, however, that there's a country in the world who's made a incredible magic: increase years of education without any change in productivity: Brazil, where I live and was born. When Lula (PT - Workers Party) was president, he fired the biggest figure, from his own party, who has championed education since forever and hired someone else. What did he do? Gave semaphores to everybody but no education. We now have more people with college degrees than people who can read complex texts in Portuguese. But ... this is Brazil ... where magic is reality and when you add the Propaganda machine that party still has to the mix ... you get even bigger magic.

[@2vnews902]

One word applied to most of the arguments: Inflation

[@2vnews902]

Inflation of prices, expectations and self-worth.

[@mehrshadvr4]

Actually it's because of government cuts. Since Reagan American has cut their public education a lot. As far as highschool, American spends a lot on sports and transportation.

[@2vnews902]

nope

[@mehrshadvr4]

Look up stave the beast strategy. Also yes. You won't find any country in the world that invest so much in sports and no other country has school bus system.

[@2vnews902]

Meaningless.

[@dreamsalamander]

Maybe universities are like political parties. Leave one in power too long, they develop all sorts of bureaucracy and cover ups. Maybe each uni should only be funded for 4 years, with funding after the term prioritised for new unis if any, and going in a sort of turn based cycle if not. It's just a thought, sorry to offend, I don't actually know much about the logistics in running a uni

[@dsgio7254]

I have heard a lot of non sense online but that video beats them all... A unique mix of misinformation , ignorance , lack of education and logical fallacies .. Only person who can combine all these properties can imply that education might be useless because you forget what you learn at school ... after some years ....But stay tuned - I will tell you more ..💥

[@PatrickHealy]

Who told this guy he was funny? He's like the kid in my high school who *thought* he was funny but refused to believe his friends when they said he wasn't. This was painful to watch for 5 minutes....

[@cedricpod]

year after year …. questions are not time limited … and … there is no “kill switch” both debaters were very awesome

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

Caplan is very likeable, but he does not seriously rebut a lot of serious points and then slips in a lot of opinion without evidence. For example, he dismisses the importance of basic research and insists that applied research is more important because it is applied. Just to give an example of basic research that TOTALLY revolutionized the world, Einstein's research was extremely cheap to do (he just worked out theory on a piece od paper) but has produced TRILLIONS of dollars of economic value by making GPS possible. Caplan's thesis is not just short sighted but dangerous, and it would cause the US to fall way behind China, which is throwing huge heaps of money at AI research among other things. Please invest in research, education, and colleges. America has one of the highest college attendance rates on earth and is also one of the richest countries on earth. That is NOT a coincidence. College also makes better citizens who think more clearly.

[@XFT8]

You think gps wouldn't have been invented without Einstein?

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

@@XFT8 Having studied physics, I am 100% certain of that. The applied science and engineering of GPS is BASED on the Einstein's theories. If you use classical Newtonian mechanics, you cannot create a GPS system. This is exactly why economists are not qualified to talk about science funding.

[@user-ic4ce8xb5v]

@@XFT8 Of course, someone else might have made the same discovery, but that person still needed funding. This is the point, theory underpins all applied research and is often much cheaper to fund in the first place. Pure mathematicians and physicists are just having fun with proofs and equations on paper, all they need is a salary. No expensive labs or anything. It's applied reaearch that is expensive

[@terryeffinp]

If high schools did a good job there would be a very limited need for college. If college education was such a successful endeavor that was deserving of federal funding the graduation rate would not be 50 percent and we would not have a cumulative student loan crisis of 1.5 trillion dollars. Probably only about 10 percent of the people in universities actually deserve to be there. The rest are wasting their time and money that doesn't belong to them. Using public funding to make college more accessible to poor folks, but financially enslaving everyone else for decades at the same time is not a good idea.

[@maxheadrom3088]

I've seen some of the videos at the SOHO forum. I will watch this but I'm already betting that no one will mention basic education. IMHO, Higher Education dos not equal better citizens - good basic and high school education are the most important. Of course, I would also bet no one will mention the subsides that enter college through DARPA and other defense contracts. Now ... I just started hearing and I cannot confirm I'll be able to get to the end. Brazil had this writer, theater critic and foreign news analyst who had only high school. His name was Paulo Francis. From 18 to 25 years of age, he read 8 hours a day. He was the foreign analyst for TV Globo, had a full page on O Estado de São Paulo (the oldest newspaper in Brazil) and was part of the Manhattan Connection show on a cable channel owned by TV Globo. That was the end of his career - he started as a theater and literature critic at age 25. This first lecturer already shows why Trump got elected. "I'm more successful than all of them" is Trump's moto - success is the most important thing. He's also talking about his own experience as if it were the average experience - considering there's such a thing as "average experience". Well ... just found out he was not one of the debaters ... I guess I might watch it to the end. More comments will follow ...

[@tigerlilly3727]

ought you be forced to pay for the education of others, or ought you not be forced? you can argue utility all day without touching on the fact that you are forced. your opinion matters as much to the tax collectors as the preferences of broiler chickens to not be hung upside down and have their throats slit. as borat says before bagging his bride to be "consent not required..."

[@Jormungadr]

Why arent presidential or any debates between politicians this intellectual?

[@misterh1]

Good grief, can we kill the opening stand up routine and just get to the good stuff?

[@shawnl661]

Please provide an example of where the government successfully anticipated market trends and put programs in place, on time on budget, and delivered 100% of expected results. Two constraints: examples cannot involve military-industrial complex, nor can they involve dumb luck.

[@benbockelman6125]

Why don’t more debates have a comedy session before the debate?

[@dsgio7254]

There are objectives markers scientifically accepted and internationally highly esteemed to evaluate an education system. And according to these markers countries who have well funded public education, not focus on tests but on educational freedom with respected and well paid teachers with some kind of tenure have the best educational outcomes .Finland for example - per ALL objective high quality markers they they gave the best education .....PIsa results etc - check it out ......

[@Bc232klm]

No, cut out corporate welfare, and unnecessary/unconstitutional wars. Invest MORE in higher education.

[@chiefsittingstill6061]

Great (and, importantly, civil) debate - thanks for uploading it. Is Edward Glaeser related to the comedian Will Arnett, by any chance? Once I'd spotted the similarity, I couldn't stop seeing it!

[@evgeniakarunus9301]

That's interesting, because I was convinced he looks like Marc Evan Jackson instead.

[@qb4428]

Honestly, anyone who believes this bullshit that schools make for more productive citizens needs to look at the curriculum. Quick, without looking it up, what is the law of cosines? Seriously, the vast majority of people don't remember jack shit from school, proving that they never use it. It's a waste of money.

[@romaskincare9138]

Yes! Until new agreements are made regarding charging insane amount of tuition. And having staffs with high diversity of opinions.

[@deepthinker8153]

Powerful people don’t care u criticize. Nothing gonna change

[@Roar902]

can't they stop argue, and show data?

[@yvrelna]

To me there is a clear winner in this debate. One side keeps trying to sell books and argues using sound bites, unreferenced anecdotes, and ideological talking points. The other side argues using numbers and researches, facts and figures.

[@halykan]

I've actually read his book - I have to say I found his argument rather persuasive.

[@thelaw3536]

Edward endorses his book and backs his claims. You can't get more accurate than that in a debate without outright citing everything which would be unnecessary given their agreement. He also did sight some work.

[@NavaidSyed]

End of public financing for education, by no means imply the end of all learning. It actually implies end of education and beginning of learning.

[@republitarian484]

What if you had an entire country of Lawyers or Doctors or Engineers? vs. A diverse population of every level of education/skill/occupation/etc.?

[@homewall744]

Correlation isn't causation. Perhaps rich countries have the most people going to school, than spending tens of thousands to be schooled leads to riches. Until you try, it's impossible to know for sure, but government spending on government schools could perhaps be much better used by redistributing the wealth rather than providing the "service." Variety is the spice of life and drives innovation to meet actual needs rather than any one-size-fits-all tyranny. Education is useful, but government manages to ruin it and make it tired and never-changing. Lastly, there's the law of diminishing returns. Most of the gains of the poorest nations were to create basic literacy, which is likely a big gain over being illiterate. Less so when it becomes gender studies, perhaps, or teaching trigonometry to everyone regardless of any interest. Also, I'd bet those poor nations also received huge funding from investors to build industry, as it's unlikely more graduates from primary school somehow create great new industries and businesses.

[@dwspidey318]

Caplan slaughtered this guy. I wouldnt call this a debate!

[@NavaidSyed]

It is common sense that the education controlled by a small group of elite at the top, will direct into a specific direction which will only benefit the status quo.

[@MP15aug]

I don't get Ed's point for Microsoft Bill is a drop out

[@sergioesamayoa]

Udemy, Coursera, Next-U and other remote training sites will eventually overcome high EXPENSIVE college.

[@abramgaller2037]

There is nothing in the way of federal funding that is small and doesn't do some damage.

[@Humza_3.14]

Education has positive externalities. This means that the price mechanism yields a lower amount of it than is socially optimal. Hence it should be subsidized. To the extent that all the technological breakthroughs and leaps in our understanding of nature are a by product of highly educated individuals which has resulted in the modern economy we enjoy today, funding higher education more than pays for itself in productivity gains.

[@jayguti9658]

I think a question should be added is WHAT ARE PEOPLE STUDYING? "People make more money when they are educated." Do this. Get data for three groups of people: hs diploma only, 4 year degree in STEM, and 4 year degree in humanities. I bet you will see people in STEM will do overwhelming do better than those with a hs diploma only with LITTLE variance in earnings. The humanities group will probably make on average SLIGHTLY more than those with a hs diploma only. People who are doing well with a humanities degree are doing a job they could have done even without degree and just plain job experience. Or they had an epiphany and got a STEM degree. LOL!!!

[@macioluko9484]

@1:27:00 That is actually something I would get behind!!!! If actually reward citizens being lawful... they will be ! What a concept!!!! @1:28:35 That's a lot like saying: "How in the heck are we going to cut out that greed gene from the gene pool?"

[@kandysman86]

This dude skinny dude seems like he is probably correct. But his sureness about himself probably scares people away

[@Weirdomanification]

Probably, but as you alluded to, truth does not care about his attitude.

[@cedricpod]

that comedy warm-up was the weirdest thing I’ve been encountered in the last 30 minutes

[@yeshua64]

Libertarian solution to everything: Abolish the state. 😒

[@readrothbard153]

Dicken Bahls i 2nd that

[@thegreneknight]

skip the goddamn comedian came here for Bryan Caplan

[@shawnl661]

Some kids would rather commit suicide than learn math. How can schools fix that problem? Assisted suicide options?

[@kewlbeone5949]

Do they address mis-education.

[@generalco2554]

I really liked (buy the book) Edwards argument but wish he (buy the book) was a little less of a (buy the book) sales man. *Summary:* Measure kids with bad high school grades who are very successful post-university. Smart kids who work hard in high school are already likely to be successful no matter what they do.

[@readrothbard153]

general co i'd volunteer for that study... i dropped out of h.s as a senior, ranked 453/453 in my class. I did not attend university. Never once have i worried about making a comfortable and good living. (I am not in skilled trade fields either) Cream rises to the top. My lack of diploma or degree has never been a hindrance to my professional success. That said it certainly changed the path uo the ladder insofar as my path has been less common. That said i have pursued signalling mechanisms in the form MOOC certificated, specializations &c

[@generalco2554]

That's very interesting John. I grew up in the early 90's and was writing code in Jr.High. When I entered the professional world I was surrounded by people with the entire alphabet of Microsoft Certs behind their name. As I moved up the ladder I developed a mistrust, almost disdain, for alphabet people. It might have been envy as I never had "certs" but I ascended though the corp. ladder pretty quickly and always found "their" work lacking and unimaginative. What do you do John?

[@readrothbard153]

general co kudos! That is a great story of how technical training is easily achieved outside of the standard realm of education. I certainly understand about the 'alphabet' workers, it seems with rigidity of acquiring specialization comes a loss of creativity and fluidity. I am now in product development in a wide array of consumer goods but focused primarily on building materials and processes. It was sales and marketing that got me started down this path but i too was 'self educated' through various specialization programs etc as well as focused studying any time i came to a place where my own and experience and knowledge came up short. We are at the best time in history for this as information has commoditized so much with the advancement of technology.

[@jackmeoff8953]

No the government should cut off all funding to schools.

[@bettersaynow]

College degree is just a union card

[@mattjeffsdpt]

no 'opening acts' please .

[@maxheadrom3088]

And it did not take long! "How often in the real world we use [this and that - ~ 14:40]" Well, all the time. Do you really think reason is innate to human beings? You should study more History and Philosophy. This will be fun. There's a Nobel prize that was given to the guy who invented lobotomy! Signaling is not only where they went to school but how they will were selected. A Yale diploma means you were among the best high school students in the world. The biggest error he makes, though, is thinking only in economic terms. I agree with the argument against "cultural elevation" because that does not happen in College but in basic and high school. I have an argument for State support of higher education (and all education, btw): Germany.