Wait, Xenosaga II Is Actually Good? | Xenosaga Ep.II Analysis (Ep.1) |State of the Arc Podcast

[@ResonantArc]

For next week, play to the end of the Ormus Stronghold.

[@maxderrat]

So what you're saying is that the URTVs being there is good?

[@Thiago_Alves_Souza]

The GOAT is back. BTW brother saw your FFT vid and trust me you could make a series on that one too.

[@Y-two-K]

@@Thiago_Alves_Souzaone of the GOATs, along with Mike and Casen that is

[@itsasecrettoeverybody]

Hi max.

[@BulletHail1337]

Hop on Umineko, Max. Better story structure and characters than you've seen so far.

[@bigbabbyjaime]

I think it's bad.

[@ChristopherRoss.]

Shoutout to Yuki Kaijura's contribution to the soundtrack. I still listen to it regularly.

[@quiddity131]

Yes, some really great stuff from her in this game... and even better stuff from her in Episode III!

[@ak47dragunov]

Hosoe's contributions get a ton of crap, but I'll maintain that the regular boss music is some of the best music in the entire trilogy, and that was all him

[@quiddity131]

@@ak47dragunov I really do like the boss music themes for the game.

[@TacticalNep]

​@@ak47dragunov It's a common misconception that Shinji Hosoe composed the battle themes for Xenosaga Episode 2. It was actually Ayako Saso who composed the battle themes and some cutscene music (some of her cutscene music was exclusive to the Japanese version of the game).

[@TJTheEmperor]

So, even though I’m firmly in the “Episode 2 isn’t very good” camp, i am actually glad you like it so far. I’ve heard of some people dropping the series entirely because Episode 2 turned them off, so I’m glad that didn’t happen to you. If you like Episode 2, you’re going to LOVE episode 3. With regards to the cutscenes in the prologue that you think are vague: I totally agree, and I’m a person who must have a high tolerance for Xenotypical Dialogue (love that phrase). To me, the difference between those scenes and those in Episode 1 is that Episode 1 didn’t feel vague to me - it felt like Takahashi and Tanaka were, as they tend to do, playing the long game and revealing information extremely slowly and carefully. Episode 2, on the other hand, felt as if it was being vague almost because the writer didn’t have adequate grasp of the material he was assigned to adapt - when I later discovered the quote from the writer basically admitting just that, everything kind of fell into place for me. That said, there are plenty of small moments in this game that stick with me, many of which you guys mentioned in this episode. I just sort of wish they were executed better - I always tend to be harder on missed potential as opposed to something that’s outright bad. One more thing: I’m kind of sad you didn’t mention my favorite Albedo line - where he quotes Paul freaking McCartney in his psychic conversation with Gaignun. It’s so out of left field and bizarre, which means it works very well with Albedo’s character.

[@GRAG3R]

Episode 2 is good - just not on the first run. On subsequent playthroughs you understand its kinks and failings - but appreciate the good in it all the more. Namely, the E.S., Kajiura's music, and of course, Jin.

[@GRAG3R]

Also the battle system is much better in 2 than 3. 3 is very generic turn-based. 2 is like a precursor to Xenoblade with the launch mechanics. And naturally, Xenosaga Ep 1 is just Xenogears battle system 2.0.

[@RickPPR]

The McCartney quote had me laughing out loud! It was so cheesy and so good. (Also - love your videos TJ. You're the man!)

[@ThePunchening]

They didn't call it out explicitly, but it did appear on screen briefly.

[@IncubusFolly]

I tend to agree with TJ. I do actually like the battle system quite a lot, but it also feels under utilized. I also find that Ep 2. doesn't give us enough story to stand on it's own legs.

[@yvastel8153]

"The first and last Christian died on a cross." Holy carp that is so metal.

[@eekiehd]

Timestamps: 1. Story Summary (0:00:00) 2. Intro (0:01:12) 3. Character Redesigns and Pacing (0:03:58) 4. Discussing the Subtitle (0:08:35) 5. Prologue: The Miltian Conflict (0:14:22) 6. Margulis Reports to the Patriarch of Ormus (0:45:00) 7. Arriving on Second Miltia (0:54:28) 8. Rubedo Flashback (1:04:24) 9. Returning KOS-MOS to Vector Industries (1:10:38) 10. Conversation between Albedo and Negredo (1:19:50) 11. Outro (1:26:29)

[@tayloranderson9304]

Perfect timing! I just finished a replay of Xenosaga 1-3 about... four hours ago!

[@RickPPR]

Finally, I can contribute something - Nietzsche was not a nihilist, actually! That's a popular misconception. He regarded nihilism as one of the worst things that could become of society. He largely touches on this in his depiction of The Last Man, the sort of antithesis of the Übermensch. I think they were depicted in Zarathustra? Not sure about that. (Incidentally, Casen was a bit of an influence to me to actually start reading philosophy, so thank you!) Thank you for all the work you do, fellas! Absolutely stellar stuff as always. I can't wait to hear the rest of the series!

[@CasenSperry]

Thanks! Very accurate. This is why I refer to him as a "post-nihilist", though I still acknowledge others who want to call him simply a nihilist (or just identify him with that idea) as well. I agree. He was more pragmatic about how to deal with nihilism, and was much less of one himself. The Last Man is great

[@michs7451]

Like how Casen described Nietzsche here, Nietzsche described himself as a “nihilist” (a result of the nihilism in Europe) and an “anti-nihilist” (the result of the logic of nihilism overcoming itself) at the same time. Nietzsche saw the dangers of nihilism, but it should be remembered that he also saw it as a challenge, and potentially useful as a prod for mankind to challenge itself and produce an Overman that can justify mankind’s existence to itself.

[@RickPPR]

Thank you for the clarification, Michs! Nice to see you outside of the discord. Great job on the FF X episode, too!

[@michs7451]

@@RickPPR Thank you! Great to see you too!

[@1SpicyMeataball]

I heard someone smarter than me described Neitzsche philisophy not being "everything is pointless" but actually more "it is what it is." Incidentally I had the opportunity to pick up one of his books at an estate sale and I'm still kicking myself that I didn't.

[@CielBlanche]

XS1 explores its story in a very immersive way that builds the tapestry of the narrative piece by piece. I always think of how XS1 drops you into the first SOCE scene with Juli Mizrahi, or other such moments where it expands your understanding by nibbling at its universe from another revealing angle. It's a huge contrast to how the games afterwards mostly address the story in terms of getting the key plot points over with via expedited utilitarian plot beats. The very beginning of 2 has more of that good XS1 feeling, probably because a lot of it was already mapped out by the time XS1 wrapped. For example, you can even see an early version of the Jin vs. Margulis fight in one of the first XS1 trailers

[@michs7451]

(1) Here’s the relevant sections from the interview with Arai (Director) and Hagiwara (Producer)! First of all, I'd like to ask you about the subtitle for "Xenosaga Episode II" (EPII from here on), "Beyond Good and Evil [lit.: The Equinox of Good and Evil]". Arai: Just going by the meaning of the words, it means something like "the boundary of good and evil". But I think what Takahashi (original plan/director) wanted to convey was how hard it is to judge "what is right, and what is wrong". That is to say, it's about how what is "right or wrong" for a person to do might change according to that person's viewpoint and the values of the time. For example, Albedo lives according to his emotions, and resolutely causes trouble for others [that way]. But in all honestly, isn't that the most human way to live your life? That is one way you could look at it. Jr. is also under a lot of stress from his feelings, but since he has unshakeable convictions, he reconciles himself to his feelings... But I don't think it's a simple matter of being able to say that "Albedo is evil and Jr. is good". Was there agreement within the staff about how to interpret that subtitle? Arai: The subtitle was something Takahashi decided on, so we talked about its contents with him at an early stage. But basically, I think this [subtitle] was something Takahashi intended to apply not just to EPII, but to "Xenosaga Episode I" (EPI from here on), and everything to do with the world of Xenosaga from here on out. I think he intended this not just to refer to the trio of Jr., Albedo and Gaignun who will take center stage this time, but to include characters whose stories still haven't ended, and to be something he'd like you to reflect on when the story comes to its final conclusion. Does this apply to the "The Will to Power", the subtitle to EPI too? Arai: Yes, I'd say so. In my opinion, "The Will to Power" applies to the whole story. Naturally, since it has that subtitle, it's important to the story of EPI itself, but at the same time it is something that applies to the entire story.

[@newdarkcloud]

My understanding is that Shion never needed her glasses, but they were a gift from Kevin so she had sentimental attachment to them. The glasses themselves do basically nothing to improve her vision.

[@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972]

It makes sense since this is well into the future i imagine fixing eye issues is very easy.

[@OniLink99999]

I just got this info when speaking to Miyuki last night, further into the game =)

[@Hagnkerchief]

Before I even watch, I hope not too many people skip this episode like I almost did. It's too easy to see Xenosaga Ep.2 and think "I didn't watch the first guess I'm not watching this series of episodes"

[@Y-two-K]

Resonant Arc discussions give you the most if you've watched any prequel discussions and if you play along with the game, but a vast majority of these I haven't even played yet still gleam some very valuable insights from them.

[@Ghonf]

The European release of Xenosaga Episode II actually includes a bonus DVD, with the cutscenes from Episode I, though I believe the length was cut down to 5 hours instead of the 7 hours Episode I has worth of cutscenes. But the packaging doesn't mention that this bonus DVD includes those cutscenes from Episode I, at least on the German packaging, there's only a mention that there is a bonus DVD included. So you have to play the DVD to even see that it's basically Episode I as a movie. Still far from ideal to experience the story, but it's better than having nothing at all and only having Episode II.

[@Seomus]

So did the US if you preordered it. Came as a bonuse DVD with is own case.

[@E.B._Tech]

@@SeomusI was going to mention this as well. I did not know it was a pre order bonus but I ordered one off of eBay for the collection and I see them for sale all the time on there

[@Xenobears]

@@Seomusit’s one of the reasons I preordered Episode II! Awesome preorder bonus-so glad that Blockbuster got it. I was a Blockbuster employee at the time, so I preordered it through there.

[@enk273]

And the absolute best part is that after all this trouble they then proceeded to not bring Episode III over either. Being a JRPG lover in PS1/2 era in EU was rough.

[@AndrewFedge]

I'm also one of those people that bounced off of Xenosaga II. The character redesigns weren't too bad, but between the instances of voice actor changes, the music being so different, and the battle system...I tried, I really did. But I ended up reading a plot synopsis before I tackled III instead of finishing. I'm glad y'all are continuing the Xenosaga train, because maybe with you two explaining certain plot things I might actually be able to slot it into my love of 1 and 3. :D

[@jkhg102]

I can't wait for you guys to get to the Xenoblade Chronicles games. You guys do such a great job with your podcasts!!

[@gushen_]

Cannot express how excited I am for this podcast. Been following the channel for years ever since the FFVIII podcast and as a massive Xenogears fan, I’ve finally been making my way through the Xenosaga franchise. I just beat the first episode a few days ago and watched that whole podcast, but this will be the first ever Resonant Arc podcast I follow while the episodes are airing!

[@mattcat83]

I always loved Xenosaga ep2 despite the online hate back in the day.

[@Flomen01]

I should mention for clarification (without any spoilers of course) that the data Jin gives Canaan in the prologue is not, in fact, the Y-Data. The confusion is understandable considering even the most diehard fans come to this conclusion. But yeah, the data that Jin gives to Canaan is the information he says could reveal the secret behind the Miltian Conflict, not the Y-Data. He mentions the Y-Data because that is his current goal at the time. The DS remake adds extra dialogue to clarify that he doesn't have the Y-Data at this time, and this is reiterated in the database for Xenosaga 3. Only clarifying because this is an extremely easy thing to miss, even for people who have completed every game. Good to hear you guys are enjoying the game, though!

[@opkij86]

Good clarification! The Y-data is already with Momo at this point in time, on the Proto merkabah.

[@felixthecatx887]

Really appreciate the editing on these. It helps so much to supplement the conversation with relevant footage.

[@hectorayarza1283]

my favorite podcast ever since Xenogears analysis it opened my mind in such a way love it.

[@EvilCronos13]

Having a random space pope in this game was always so weird yet so cool

[@ardith]

Shion having her glasses crushed is pretty hilarious for multiple reasons. She has 20/20 vision and thus doesn't need to wear glasses at all. The DS game clarifies all this. After the KOS-MOS Encephalon dive there's a rather lengthy flashback between her and Kevin where he gives her the glasses as a gift. They also have the ability to record video. She only holds on to them for sentimental value since he got Falcon Punched to death by KOS-MOS. Unfortunately that scene is left on the cutting room floor for whatever reason, but it explains why they pop up again after Episode 2. Allen stepping on her glasses isn't even canon to the story. Also there is some very blink and miss it scenes that are very cool references. Richard can be seen on top of the building with his robot's arms crossed. This is a reference to Grahf in Xenogears, which itself is a reference to the classic Gainax Pose that got popularized by the 1988 OVA Gunbuster. Gunbuster may be the most important Xeno reference as it references other things likea character named Jung Freud, Hilbert, and other scientific stuff. Unfortunately it doesn't go very deep into it even though it comes packaged with these science shorts that are meant to be watched in accompaniment to the show.

[@AceBadguy]

Hey guys! Thanks for continuing this series. Looking forward to the rest of this podcast and eventually Xenosaga 3. Although I didn't enjoy the story for 2, I really enjoyed the combat once I realized you're supposed to save boosts for big combos.

[@jet_j9964]

Hey guys, big big fan here. I followed your analysis of Episode I closely and it blew me away. It's what drew me properly into this fantastic channel and it's been truly amazing to see such high quality and in-depth Xeno content in the present day. I still remember the feeling of seeing a new episode in my recommended. As a matter of fact, I've been on-and-off collating notes and drafting and redrafting scripts for my own giant Xenosaga analysis project for about 2 years now, which originally started as just a four-way character study of the Testaments but gradually ballooned in scale to the point of analysing the whole saga as comprehensively as possible to further that end, thanks in large part to your (then new) videos on Episode I and their onslaught of fresh, fantastic insights, prompting so many new observations and ideas. Considering that this was all coming from two people who hadn't even finished the series and were going to lengths to avoid spoilers, it was even more astounding. Unfortunately though, life has been pretty different since then, and seeing how long a break you were (understandably) taking from the series to focus on other things, it helped the whole project and series in my mind essentially slip by for the year it's roughly been, a year I would've much rather spent trying to beat you two to the punch lol. I'm at a point currently where I simply can't say when this absurd passion project will be finished, nor even what form it'll eventually take for certain, and I'm in no position to watch these and take notes any time soon either, I hate to say. But one day I will, and I know it'll be another amazing ride. I want to thank you both from the bottom of my heart for giving me something to look forward to.

[@Sean-lr7lj]

Casen "we should be on the lookout for someone who is yellow" Petition to call the episode where they find the yellow man *the finding of the Simpson"

[@Scimarad]

As someone from the UK I actually imported the Xeno games from Canada (Videogames+ I think?). I suspect that had I not played the first one I still probably would have enjoyed it even if I didn't understand any of it. I did also buy the soundtrack album for this and really enjoyed it but was disapointed that it was pretty much just all the music from the cinematics and none of the other music including the battle or location themes. Really glad you guys are enjoying this one.

[@tinyguy9398]

OMG!!! I have literally been playing the Xeno series from start to finish starting with Gears since last summer with the express goal of getting max leveled and 100 percenting on everything in every last game in the series and after all that finally playing the Blade games (for the first time) after I have fully completed Gears and Saga (something I have not done since 2007). I started out on this endeavour after seeing your as well as Retrograde Amnesia’s podcasts last year which evoked within tremendous amounts of nostalgia for Gears and Der Wille zur Macht (I have replayed Der Wille zur Macht multiple times since 2007, but haven’t touched any of the other games since their respective US release dates, though they have occupied a huge amount of my time in the intervening years as they are what lead me to read up on / study the Nag Hammadi codices, Jewish and Christian apocrypha (including the Sefer Yetzirah and Sefer ha Zohar) and put me onto studying the works of Nietzsche, CG Jung, Schopenhauer and made me a huge fan of Wagner after inspiring me to listen to / see my first ever opera: Lohengrin, and having now seen all of his operas (at least once if not multiple times) aside from Die Feen and Das Lebesverbot. All that is to say I just today 100 percented Der Wille zur Macht fully (including the amazing card game which I don’t remember being so fun, though it took some time for it to grow on me) to only finally tomorrow start Jenseits von Gut und Böse and see this in my feed. What amazing timing!!! I am so excited to see you and Casen experience this game (especially Casen being that it’s his first time). This game gets a bad reputation, but it’s not nearly as bad as people remember it being, it’s just a tad unpolished in parts. But the story is where it definitely makes up for some of its faults and I’m sure Casen will have a field day analyzing the Freudian / Jungian psychology of the URTVs as well as maybe delving into the extensive links to the philosophy of Schopenhauer as well as the subtitle of the game, which I think has a lot more relevance to this game’s plot than the subtitle of the last game had to its plot. Also, it might be difficult to find them, but I would really suggest locating copies of Symbols of the Kabbalah and Methaphors of the Kabbalah, both written by Sanford L Drob, as the insights they provide into Jewish and, to a lesser extent, Christian Mysticism are invaluable to really getting into some of more obscure themes of this series. They are companion texts, but if you can only get one I’d suggest getting Metaphors as it’s comparative analyses to other philosophical systems (especially Neo Platonism and the Christian Kabbalah) will excite both of you (though I am sure Casen will be the one to geek out on them the most as I am confident both would be very up his alley). All that is to say, thank you for putting me on track to revisit these games and for timing this, unintentional as it might be, in perfect concordance with me starting up Episode II. I haven’t watched this yet but I am sure I will enjoy it when I do. I hope, you too enjoy replaying this game (and Casen playing for the first time). Until next time!!!

[@tinyguy9398]

Casen: 1:21:50 “Yeah. In fact, it’s almost like a Rock, Paper, Scissors happening here.” RPS King: “Nani?! Oh-my-gobrino!”

[@Mors]

Speaking as someone who lived the golden era of PS1-PS2 RPGs through PAL's glorious 50 Hertz-tinted glasses, I would like to clarify that Xenosaga Episode II was in fact the *only* Xenosaga game to be released in Europe. It came with a DVD full of Episode I cutscenes but it still missed a lot of context of course. Being online and reading up on the first game (as well as the connections to Xenogears - also never released in Europe), I think it was quite possible to enjoy the story, but it did involve a lot of self-driven extra-curricular research. Eventually played the third game via import. Being a European Tetsuya Takahashi & Soraya Saga fan wasn't easy.

[@michs7451]

Nietzsche wrote *Beyond Good and Evil* in 1886 as a work that gives further elaboration to his philosophical novel *Thus Spoke Zarathustra* that he wrote in four parts in 1883-1885. Funnily enough, Nietzsche would go on to write *On the Genealogy of Morality* in 1887 to further explain *Beyond Good and Evil*. Mike and Casen pointed to some very salient parts of *Beyond Good and Evil* in their explanation: the questioning of the value of a particular type of morality and truth, the desire to put forward “moralities” instead of a singular morality and judge them for their favourableness towards life. Nietzsche is interested in that work to place all hitherto moral valuations under stringent philosophical critique. The historical situatedness of *truth* and *morality* has been forgotten, and their value something that has been taken for granted. Nietzsche wants to ask: why not untruth rather than truth? Why do we assume that Christian morality and love of truth is something necessarily good for life? He is famous for certain ideas such as “nihilism,” “the death of God,” “the Overman,” “Eternal Recurrence,” and “the Will to Power.” At risk of being simplistic, we can understand his ideas as follows: All of life to Nietzsche is “will to power,” a contestation of forces, and a perpetual flux. Even something like the “self” isn’t stable, but a convenient fiction that we use to affix order to things, and something imposed from without. When we perform an action, there is a part of us that commands, and a part of us that obeys, and it is our falsification of the world that thinks it as one and the same thing. As Casen put it, the will to truth, nurtured by Christian morality, has undone itself and negated the very existence of God. People in nineteenth-century Europe are no longer able to believe in associated ideas such as “God,” the “otherworldly,” and “the transcendent” even though they have yet to come to a full realisation of that fact.

[@michs7451]

It can either be harnessed in a way positive for life, or let to rot in a way that is negative for life. With the Death of God comes the lack of any fundamental grounding that gives man his place and value in the world, that separates him as distinct and hence important from the purely animal. Previously, man got his value and meaning from being made “in the image of God,” but with the onset of science (especially theories such as Darwinism), man has become a fundamental problem and needs to justify his existence. The Overman is the one who *justifies* man’s existence, the one who comes to the chaos that is mankind and gives it a kind of order. It isn’t even that Nietzsche is interested in humanity for its own sake; he is interested in birthing the Overman, the man who will justify all of life with his existence, his will to power. Without God, there is no longer any linear view of history, any afterlife, any meaning that doesn’t last past death, there is nothing else to hope for. This is the Eternal Recurrence: the fearsome thought that there is only immanence, that what has happened will be what will happen, the complete antithesis of an “otherworldly,” “transcendent” heaven that man can look towards to justify their existence. What do you do with that, is Nietzsche’s challenge to mankind. Do you embrace that, and work towards a point that justifies your entire life and all the world leading up to that point? Or do you allow the weight of the Eternal Recurrence to crush you and lead you to despair?

[@michs7451]

With regards to “master morality” and “slave morality” in *On the Genealogy of Morality*, Nietzsche is suggesting that the moral values we take for granted have themselves a *historical origin*. “Master morality” is the morality of the aristocratic Greeks and the Romans, who defined the world according to themselves. They saw themselves as “good,” and anything that is not as sublime and powerful as themselves as “bad.” Whereas as inaugurated by Israel / the priests and carried to fruition by Christianity is “slave morality,” a “slave revolt in morals.” Instead of defining the world from a position of strength, according to one’s knowledge of one’s own value, the one with the slave morality starts from his ressentiment towards the world (“evil”) and values himself as “good” in opposition to that. It is Nietzsche’s task in the first essay to show the hidden, insidious origins of “Christian morality” and its associated values such as love and charity, and to push for the birth of a new morality, just as the “slave morality” of the Christians superseded the “master morality” of the Greco-Romans. It is an invitation for those who are worthy to go beyond Christian morality, aesthetically create their new morality, and justify existence while doing so.

[@michs7451]

As for method, Nietzsche is “descriptive” and “imaginative” and nothing if not very attuned to the “historical sense,” the situatedness of all ideas in historical place and time. But I’m not sure if you can divorce “description” and “prescription” so cleanly in the Nietzsche, given that his descriptions often belie the desired future and man of the future that he uses to justify mankind in a this-worldly sense.

[@michs7451]

One last comment, for what it's worth, I don't think Nietzsche would see himself as a Gnostic at all. To be sure, there are some similarities between them, for example, their preference for a kind of intuitive and revelatory knowledge as compared to dogma or mere intellectualism. But whereas Gnosticism commits to some notion of the transcendent, an idea of an "alien" and "otherworldly" God, and the depreciation of the physical body as compared to the spirit, Nietzsche completely and unilaterally rejects these things. Nietzsche is staunchly atheist (though deeply attentive to the importance of religious ethics for the vast majority of people), militantly this-worldly, and wants to restore the primacy of the body. Nietzsche has this famous train of thought somewhere in his works which states that even notions about the transcendent-immanent, this-worldly-otherworldly split are produced by the body and are themselves the result of some clear bodily mechanisms acting on the body. Nietzsche is uninterested in otherworldliness and what he wants is to restore this world to the primary focus of mankind.

[@1SpicyMeataball]

​@@michs7451Woah, spoilers for part 3 there.

[@linnaealyn]

48:47 I thought Rubedo looked to have the caduceus symbol on the back of his jacket, which to me made sense considering its an alchemical symbol, but someone pointed out to me that its just the shape of the Durandal.

[@linnaealyn]

1:23:42 Canaan was in XS1? I thought we only know Canaan from Lactis in PP where there was no voice acting. Or is Casen talking about Canaan and Mike thinking about Jin? Because Casen said Canaan but the scene that was used while they were talking about Canaan's voice performance was Jin and Shion.

[@jonathancook1731]

I haven't played any of the Xeno games, but enjoy your discussions. I have no idea what's going on but I am here for the analysis stuff.

[@tacobales]

I remember during our xenosaga one podcast TJ was talking about how mixed xenosaga 2 was so I went into it with kinda low expectations and I was very happy to find it was just as good if not better than xenosaga one imo. The character redesigns where much needed.

[@MiraO-rp6oe]

So happy that you guys are analyzing Xenosaga 2!! Looking forward to the podcasts :)

[@XenosbioZ]

Yup, “that pope guy.” Reason why I never replayed this game. Probably most times I ever lost in a jrpg boss battle, ever. It’s the only thing I remember about this game. My dad was watching me lose to that guy too and he told me I was too old to play games (I just graduated high school at the time 😂)… maybe that’s why I remember it so much. Also! I was upset that I couldn’t transfer xenosaga 1 data to episode 2… golden Sun to golden Sun 2 was a smooth data transfer, why couldn’t I do the same for this one 😂

[@1SpicyMeataball]

I went into Xenosaga 2 fully expecting to hate it, but had the same experience you guys did. It took me a bit to get used to the new actors and design, but I warmed fairly quickly to them. I even found myself enjoying figuring out the break system. 😱😂

[@JEANS__]

excellent stuff guys. love that we're back on the Xeno! also yeah, the mobydicks cutscene is hard to watch. 😭

[@ak47dragunov]

I have been waiting for this series with bated breath since you finished Episode I. Can't wait to hear you guys' thoughts

[@ak47dragunov]

So, I watched through and absolutely loved your commentary as usual. Gonna restrain myself and not comment anything spoiler related, rather just some random thoughts: 1) the artstyle: As a fairly diehard weeb, I absolutely despised the redesigns, and always felt X1 was (and still is in many ways) one of the best 3D depictions of anime characters that feels true to 2D art. That being said, however, you definitely get used to it and in the better animated cutscenes, the uncanny valley stuff isn't nearly as bad. Thankfully X3 rectifies this issue for the most part 2) the voice acting: I made sure to play the whole trilogy with Japanese voices so I'm not certain just how poor the dub is. I highly, highly, recommend to any newcomer or veteran (who plays on PC via "mysterious means") to play the undub. For vets it'll change your perspective, I feel, and for newbies it'll give you the best possible experience 3) You guys don't typically touch on gameplay (which is fine, I'm here for the story!), but I feel you should give it at least a mention simply because of how much of a hard barrier it presents compared to X1. I didn't fully grasp it until a good 10 hours into the game, and that was out of necessity more than anything, bc this game can be merciless if you don't know what you're doing 4) As a native Hebrew speaker I always get a kick of watching you guys try to parse (and pronounce) some of the biblical/esoteric terms the Xeno team loves to throw in their games, whether appropriate or not. I gotta say, the predominance of those words and imagery was one of the big reasons I fell in love with this series

[@CycloneFox]

Just like last week's episode, this was awesome. And everyone who skipped last week because it wasn't about the main games, watch it. It was really really interesting. (Or watch it after you played the fan-game that'll be releasing relatively soon... :D) A little bit of corrections and notes: - Canaan is not carrying the Y-data. The data Jin transferred to him 14 years ago on Old Miltia was data he was collecting, which could expose connections between Ormus, U-Tic and some other organizations. -- That's also the reason why just throwing it away shouldn't be such a big problem, it's there to get exposed anyway. Just for Jin himself to be carrying it around in his injured state could be a problem. - Old Miltia and Second Miltia are not in the same Miltian star system. They are two different star systems. Typically a star systemhas at most one planet, which has the ideal mass and distance from the star to be habitable. After Old Miltia was destroyed, a new planet in another system was terraformed for the refugees to live on and that planet became Second Miltia. - It was already teased at the end of Xenosaga episode I in the Proto Merkabah dungeon (with unvoiced cutscenes) that there was something strange with Realians who received maintenance 14 years ago on Proto Merkabah. This might habe been a teaser for the first few scenes of episode II. Also: This might be purely speculation on my part and entirely wrong. But As a German who speaks English as second language this is something I noticed with the "Beyond good and evil" or "Jenseits von Gut und Böse" title. Speaking of the translation progress in the Pied Piper episode, that you have to be fluent in both languages, understand cultural differences and also be knowledgable with Jung, Nietzsche and also understand the lore of Xenosaga itself. (And I would also add Xenogears and Xenoblade as well, because these lores reference each other and are connected in a lot of parts) The german word for "Beyond" is "Jenseits". And that is a pretty close translation. However, and this is where you can correct me, beyond is a little more like "after" or "post". At least to me the translation sounds a lot like "We already had the concepts of good and evil, this is after or post that." But there is no sign of a chronological quality in the German word "jenseits". Jenseits just means outside or on another layer. The literal translation may be "beyond", but at least to me there is a chronological quality resonating with that word, which just isn't there in the original German title "Jenseits von Gut und Böse". It's not after, but just outside or on another layer from the concept of "good and evil". Don't know if this difference is even relevant, but it always strikes me with the translation.

[@teddyboiboi7758]

I love these recaps at the start of the podcast. Always nice to get some bearings as to what happened in the story :)

[@bartandaelus359]

I like to think of Shion's redesign as a peak turn of the millennium 'cool girl's outfit. Really cool outfit change.

[@GRAG3R]

You know that epic intro song as the ES descends? Remember that motif, Mike. It will emerge frequently throughout the entire game - and I KNOW you are a motif / soundtrack guy, Lol. It's also the best motif in the Xenosaga series - aside from Pain or Kokoro, by Mitsuda in Episode I.

[@GRAG3R]

Pay special attention to Jr., and his motifs / musical themes in this regard. You will not be disappointed. The ending theme HITS hard.

[@ToddMa09]

Hey! No idea if you guys will actually see this, but I would love to see a quick video of your impressions on the Expedition 33 trailer/gameplay that was shown recently.

[@МайяСай-х2з]

EU release came with disk containing all the cutscenes from ep1, so we had some idea what this game is about

[@basch71]

The Xeno games is one of those series where like it's stories are so high IQ with all it's references and metaphors that it kinda in normal circumstances it's to it's detriment but it's GOAT'd so it doesn't matter because it's interesting.

[@Newz1306]

In regards to Xenosaga II’s technical issues, I remember listening to a podcast from way back in 2010 on an old video game website called 1UP (RIP). The podcast was called Active Time Babble, hosted originally by Jeremy Parish (Retronauts anyone?) and then by Kat Bailey (who currently hosts Axe of the Blood God, a podcast Mike has actually appeared on!). On one episode of the show that was mostly about FFXIII, one of their guests named Christian Nutt who was a games journalist at the time mentioned that his sources told him part of the reason Xenosaga II shipped the way that it did was because of the North American response to the first game that led it to sell over a million copies. Apparently Namco didn’t have any real expectations for the game outside of Japan, so when they saw that it became something of a hit they rushed the sequel out to market as fast as they could to essentially strike while the iron was hot. They did it thinking they possibly had a Final Fantasy level series on their hands and wanted to capitalize on the international success of the Xenosaga I, hence Xenosaga II being the first game released in PAL regions. So the team probably didn’t get as much time as they wanted to work on the game and give it the proper attention it needed. Anyway, I just remembered this watching the show today. For those interested I’ll drop the link to the old podcast below. I remember them talking about Xenosaga during the first half hour of the podcast in relation to the at the time unreleased original Xenoblade. The episode of the podcast is the eleventh from 2/25/2010. archive.org/details/ActiveTimeBabble/1-10+Active+Time+Babble+X+-+Final+Fantasy+XIII++-+02_25_2010.mp3

[@ArtificialVik]

At 33:39 you can see a blue holographic bunnie floating above. Now I’m not sure why it’s there, but given what we’ve seen from bunnie in xenosaga 1 (that’s he’s a two-faced rabbit with some kind of connection to Shion and Miltia), I feel like that has to have some kind of symbolic significance. No clue what though. Also it creeps me out lol

[@violetsky22]

Another shoutout post to Yuki Kajiura for the OST because there were some unused songs in this game that are really good, like Jr.'s theme that i love it!!

[@MrEdeaKramer]

the title of this video immediately made me nut, this is the first time i've seen people be open and honest about liking this game and it makes me so happy. The way if gives more personality and background to the characters felt so good and important it always baffles me when people don't want to understand it.

[@joshuahelmeke]

Personal fan favorite of mine. 😎 There’s SO much “game” in this game.

[@TheSpectacledOwl]

Anyone who knows anything about gun safety knows this one very important fact that many in Hollywood and overseas always overlook...FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. Great episode, guys.

[@jameswinslow6937]

So three things..... 1. I think it's hilarious y'all assume you will be able to wrap up in 2 episodes. Love the optimism. 2. TJ imo one of the best guests you've had on. Not sure if there are other issues at play but bring him back lol😊. 3. You brought up in the past episode (and several others) that you work in anti trafficking. As I presume you mostly cater to a dad/mom audience you mind maybe throwing some lit out in the description you maybe make an episode to help identify newer issues that may be at play. (I'm sure the don't talk to strangers discussion we got as kids may be a little out of date at this point) Otherwise love all your stuff and hopefully we go straight into episode 3 after this🎉

[@arkus2919]

One major flaw you guys didn’t point out is the fact that nearly all of the returning characters have different voice actors than the first game, I completely understand why you guys failed to notice this problem since it’s been 2 years since you covered the first game. I hope you guys address this in the next episode and I’m also curious if the returning characters also have different Japanese voice actors than the first game.

[@jacobmonks3722]

It's more of a 50/50 split between new and returning VAs. Ziggy, Jr., Allen, Albedo, Gaignun, Margulis, and Pelegri all have the same VAs, while Shion, KOS-MOS, Momo, chaos, and Jin I think are different.

[@ab-hv8qs]

Most VA was ok. Some slight tone change existed for Momo and Chaos, and overall it was noticeable but not too jarring. KOS-MOS was the big problem. She was simply not the same character.

[@quiddity131]

All characters in the game have new VAs with the exception of Junior, Ziggy, Allen, Gaignun, Albedo, Matthews and Margulis. In pretty much every instance it's a downgrade. Really the only one I'd say eventually is an upgrade is Joshua Seth as chaos, but that doesn't really hit until the third game for me. KOS MOS is probably the worst for me since I'm such a fan of Bridget Hoffman and she does so good in the first game; in this game you barely notice KOS MOS is there when she talks. Most actors here stick through to the third game, although they thankfully get Shion and KOS MOS's original VAs back (Virgil too). And for some odd reason they change some other VAs yet again. I think Kevin has a different VA in each game. Canaan doesn't appear until this game, but they recast him for the third (although in both cases with much better actors). It's such a mess. I'm pretty sure it was all consistent in Japanese.

[@quiddity131]

@@jacobmonks3722 Pellegri was recast as well; Matthews is another returnee from the first game. I'd say it was around 25% retained and 75% recast. Interestingly enough, Jin was voiced by the same actor as Albedo in the first game, so while they did recast him, I think that was the correct choice.

[@alenezi989a3]

I don't see that as a Major Flaw tbh. It would be if we had several games and then the last part changed the VAs but we only had one game before, and I didn't get all that attached to the VAs.

[@Laxirya]

I still need to watch the episode but I'm glad you liked Ep.2. It may not be the pinnacle of the xeno series, but I remember many of its moments very fondly

[@itsasecrettoeverybody]

The things about the colors in the alchemy, there aegis in Xenoblade have the same colors. Alvis white, Malos black, Mithra yellow, Pyra (another version of Mithra) red.

[@SokiHime]

Xenosaga 2 was my introduction to the series, as a North American, and yeah, it was PRETTY INSANE to try and fathom any of it. Especially in the era of sparse wikis! But even so, this game drew me in with its promise of deep lore and intricate symbolism. Now that I can comprehend the depth behind the writing in these games, I feel deeply grateful toward the -saga games, flawed as they may be. They exposed me to a wellspring of literature to dive into over the years, and really were the springboard for that journey of discovery. So, the whole "Mecha / Anime as a gateway into philosophy" thing? Confirmed: It works!

[@pastelnightmares]

Just to add onto to what you guys said about Momo and Ziggy’s relationship (all great points btw), I really love how they contrast each other in their view of humanity. Where ziggy wants to separate himself completely from being a human, Momo *longs* for it, pained that her feelings are described as nothing more than “artificial” by the realians working on her before the dive. She wants to be a normal girl and though it’s not *completely* said in the game, I think that does make Ziggy reevaluate his stance on some of his previous decisions and makes him become even softer / more dad-like towards her. Super glad that you guys did Ep II it was always my favorite story wise despite how much slander it got, can’t wait to dive into the next section of this!

[@dessfred]

I think the Jin/Margulis fight is even by today standard, wonderfully animated and choregraphed.

[@gabrielhammond523]

So glad you guys are playing this.

[@MiBrCo4177]

Jin looking like Citan is definitely a nod to their previous work in xenogears. There are other references that you will come across throughout the rest of the game and the third game.

[@ChaosAngelZero]

This podcast sounds like it was _born_ to cover El Shaddai: Ascension of The Metatron.

[@LS1Highwind]

Great coverage as usual guys I'm really excited to start back up in the Xeno series

[@GelgoogJ]

The difference between the two battle systems, part one and part two, is what bugged me the most. I really liked that system.

[@cloudkitt]

I appreciate what they were trying to do with II, but it's just soooo slowwww. Even random encounter enemies have too much health, so every battle is just charging up a bunch of boosts so you can unload a really long combo, and then once you do, things still aren't dead, so you have to start charging boosts up again to repeat. Episode 3 sort of overcorrected, imo, by going to just a standard JRPG menu. It's way more fun that II's, and it is snappy, but I do always miss the combat in 1 which I always quite enjoyed.

[@sparkleofroses]

Please do more episodes then you are planning! I struggle with the redesigns but man the story i thought was still amazing and am looking forward to this!

[@thedailyarcher7995]

Funny enough, I just discovered this channel about 7 days ago and primarily watched o listen to the xenosaga review, my disappointment when I discovered it was a year ago! And now just a week later you guys are doing episode ii??? Is this… no it can’t be…. * song of niphilum plays in the distance*

[@CasenSperry]

Synchronicity!

[@linnaealyn]

59:00 Its Joaquin Rozas (ホアキン "hoakin" in JP) vs Joachim Mizrahi (ヨアキム "yoakimu" in JP)

[@Xenobears]

I remember having issues with some of the sound mixing during character dialogue scenes-the BGM would overpower the dialogue. However, when I play it now on a PS2 using an HDMI adapter, I don’t have nearly as much of a problem as I remembered having.

[@ThePunchening]

I think you've touched on this in previous podcasts; the extent to which language changes over time. The idea of being able to understand anything anyone says in the year 4700, without regard to whether or not you even speak the same language is... amusing, conceptually. It seems to imply a rigid standardization of language that would grind culture's tendency to change beneath its heel. That said, a potential side effect of utilizing a UMN would be something of a middle ground; culture can change, but it would be unable to do so as a "pocket", instead changing uniformly across the 500,000 star systems. Which as a separate idea, is perhaps even more depressing and dystopian. A horrifying reality that lurks behind the polished and clean LED-lit future these characters inhabit. Regardless, it's feasible to *us*, as English speakers. Our language has persisted for several hundred years, and has been rather resistant to change. With minimal study, it's possible to go all the way back to literature from our language's creation, and interpret the gist of writings. But this tale was written in Japanese, for a Japanese speaking audience; a very adaptable language that has rapidly changed. And then on top of all of that, half the people who speak in these cutscenes are perpetually referencing matters that are (more or less) classified by organizations and governments they owe allegiance to. Being tight lipped is the expectation. Elaboration would be pretty stupid in the context of the situations. All this to say: I recognize that it's frustrating. You really just want to bite down on every thread the devs are tossing your way. You're doing a great job of picking up context clues as they fall. All things are revealed in time. The combat of this game is a metaphor for the right approach: Be patient, and build your boost gauges.

[@theFado96]

44:20 "Story telling rules are more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Resonant Arc, Miss Turner"

[@linnaealyn]

1:02:27 Mr Wow, you've failed us on our obscure Xenosaga trivia questions lol

[@M4ruta]

41:00 About _XenoSaga II_ being the first XS game released in Europe: it came with an extra DVD with a four hour long summary (using that word loosely here) of the first game. I actually played it myself this way: first watching the XS1 movie and then playing XS2. And then part three was never released here so I watched it on KZbin instead.

[@YouTubdotCub]

So happy you're finally diving into Xenosage Episode II, I liked it a lot more than most people seemed to (with the same caveats you guys had of the animation, shift in character design and voice acting maybe not being the best at times) but the plot, themes, characterization and character development, it's just such a fantastic game for people into that kind of stuff.

[@markasscop]

I was always on the Xenosaga 2 defense camp, it has issues for sure and the combat can get frustrating w/ multiple enemies, but I just like playing it, and aside KOS-MOS and maybe Jin, the outfits for the cast in this game is my favorite in the trilogy

[@fatherragoo]

In Oceania, we only got Xenosaga II, but it came with a condensed movie version of Xenosaga 1. It didn't matter to me, I was 10/11 when it came out, and could barely parse the plot. It was a fun sci-fi game, with a battle system that kicked my ass.

[@jumaanecabrera8091]

Yes!!! We got the Xenosaga II analysis!

[@CrimsonWing100]

Not really a comment with a whole bunch of substance here, but just wanted to say I really love what you guys do!

[@pelgervampireduck]

I should watch the episode 1 videos again because I kinda already forgot where the story was going. I remember playing the three games and liking them, I remember understanding the story while I was playing them, but now it's like I forgot everything, I should get familiar with the terminology, names, situations and characters again. It's like what you say in the Piped Pier video, I guess I'll need like 20 tabs open to remember this stuff.

[@jeffruss1826]

I'm sure Europe got the pre order bonus dvd included with the game that had all the cutscenes from the first game to catch them up to speed.

[@theFado96]

I think most people's complaint about episode 2 are about the weird combat balance and some of the graphical changes. I've heard little against the story portions of it. I believe when you hear "Xenosaga II is bad" is because it's mostly in comparison to the other two games.

[@scatterbraineddaily4722]

He actually is called the Pope in the Japanese version.

[@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972]

I loved this game back then, altough as you guys mentioned there is some weirdness to it. People complained about the music as well which i particulary don't understand, this game made me a fan of Shinji Hosoe. The reason of why the faces were changed (allegedly), is back then they hadnt figured out how to translate 2d anime faces to 3d making them look kinda dollish, you can see this comparing the 2d concept art of the characters to the game versions. So they tried to fix that on Xenosaga 2 but the result was kinda weird.

[@dustinp1164]

Oh Yeah! Xenosaga is back!

[@orcbrand]

We love games that make you commit to them in marriage.

[@alenezi989a3]

As someone who played Xenisaga episode 2 first, I have to say my experience was even thoughI didn't understand much I was very interested and invested I wanted to know more about htis story, world and characters,and on the ps2 this game graphics looked really impressive to me. This game made go out there and search everywhere for the first game, and looking forward for episode 3.

[@ArtificialVik]

XS2 lets flipping go 😄 I’m almost done with it and I really don’t get the hate

[@jacobmonks3722]

I think it's mostly the gameplay that people complain about. Both the combat and the sidequests are very repetitive and feel the need to waste the player's time. The story on paper is fine, but as these guys have pointed out, it wasn't executed as well as it could have been.

[@EvilCronos13]

Even in an analysis, no one thinks about poor Allen...

[@CliffConway]

Sooo stoked!

[@metalheart8715]

Citan, Jin, and dunban in the older brother figure battle royale

[@raifintune]

this has probably been asked before, but does anyone had a set reading and study guide for these games? The guys bring up works from Jung and nietzsche a lot but I’m having a hard tim e figuring out exactly what I should read to have a greater understanding of xenosaga/gears. Outside of the obvious (gnostic texts, the bible) what would you recommend for a reading list?

[@cheshireimp493]

Going straight from episode 1 to 2 is so jarring its funny. The scene that reintroduces our main cast picks up exactly where we left off, but everyone looks and sounds like they've been replaced by cosplayers. That being said, I do prefer the proportions of the characters in this game compared to 1. Mike reminded me of a question I brought up too few friends some time back. To preface this, I am very much someone who believes a work should be veiwed by its intent and not so much expectation. Is it a problem for a work to expect its audience to be familiar with the material it chooses to incorporate and interpret IF it is intended for those with an interest in said material? Now in the case of this game- as a product of an industry- it has to be made with an understanding that it must hit a wide enough audience. With that said, these games chose to have these subtitles for a reason.

[@leadintea]

Starting from this game onwards (arguably the previous game with Fighting KOS-MOS), I feel like the Xeno games pretty much surpass all other RPGs in choreographed fight scenes. I don't have the technical jargon to describe it, but I can definitely see it, and the Xeno games are the best I've seen.

[@Arkholt2]

In relation to the discussion about breaking the rules of writing or storytelling or art, it's always important to note that first, you must know the rules in order to properly break them, and second, when you break the rules it should be purposeful. You can't just go breaking rules of writing or art willy-nilly. There should be a reason, and the reason is more often than not because you want to achieve something that could not be achieved if you followed the rules. For instance, abstract painters may break all the rules of form and figure, but it's in order to place a larger emphasis on color and composition, the rules of which they follow quite strictly. I wonder if perhaps Takahashi's purpose in breaking the rules of "good storytelling" here, and making the player feel like they need to study more outside the game to understand it, was to do just that. He's interested in these philosophies and wants to not only share them with others, but give others a desire to seek them out and learn more about them. If you're a bit confused and overwhelmed, it might be on purpose.

[@MrGaiakid]

It was the battle system, it was so ungodly bad it killed the game for a lot of people. The break system would have been fine if it was limited to boss fights but the fact that beginning game enemies take just as long to beat even if your at the end of the game is just ridiculous.

[@cloudkitt]

Firstly: I'm *so excited* you guys are returning to Xenosaga, I love the series and I thought your series for part 1 was excellent and indeed kicked off my own replay of the whole series. Secondly: I'm glad you weren't immediately turned off by II, haha. I am also in the "II isn't good" camp. The character designs/animations (especially of the female characters) are definitely part of it, but I think more of it goes to the voice acting to me. First, the voice actor changes for KOS-MOS, Shion, and MOMO are *terrible*, in my opinion. But even the returning actors sound so much more flat or disinterested in a lot of scenes and that I don't understand. Was there a different voice director or something? Mercifully, Shion and KOS-MOS get their old voices back in III and it's a huge boon because they are by far the worst offenders here. The combat was also very slow, imo. But I do like how since it starts immediately after Episode 1 that you have so much access to the map and different areas right from the start. With the Kukai Foundation and all, where all the NPCs discuss the events of the end of the first game, which of course happened a day or two ago for them. Anyway, very much looking forward to the rest!

[@zachmusicposting1341]

I always thought there was way more redeeming stuff in this game than people give credit. I think Shinji Hosoe's musical contributions were awesome and refreshing and fit the sleek sci fi aesthetic, for example. HOWEVER, the dungeons are serious slogs thanks to regular combat encounters being really long. All the systems involved are cool, but oh my God meticulously setting up the combos for every single fight gets really old near the end of the game especially. I remember it being the gameplay that I groan about more than the overall package.

[@amaryllisstarfell7221]

I always loved part 2! I never understood the hate. My favorites go: 3, 2, 1

[@FinneousPJ1]

I would love to see you guys do Armoured Core 6, as it has a lot of direct storytelling compared to DS or ER but still in the From soft style

[@mandatorial]

Can you make a clips channel? I would love to watch the highlights of your show.

[@joeyisabsb1]

As a person who has played all of the Xeno games, I enjoyed Xenosaga 2. The only Xeno game that i had a rough time completing was Xenoblade 2 as i didnt care for it much.