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@shawncarlson2508 11 сағат бұрын
that tune though<3
@jordanetherington1922 12 сағат бұрын
I think the 'telos' in Xenogears was referring to 'telomeres' in cells.
@MarianHevein 14 сағат бұрын
By now I have given up on Latin pronunciations :(. This one always rubs me the wrong way!! Reconstructed consensus is: -“ti” followed by a vowel is pronounced /tsi/, unless preceded by “s”, “t”, or “x”. You can see how this evolved into “z” in Italian, “ț” in Romanian, etc…
@magicianman534 15 сағат бұрын
In Lord of the Rings, Aragorn's race, the Numenoreans, lived hundreds of years. One of the abilities they had was that they could choose when to pass on whenever they wanted. The idea was that once they felt like they had lived a complete life and started growing weary, they would put their affairs in order and willingly let go and move on. That's the kind of extended life I could go for. Time enough to live at your own pace, see everything you want to see, and move on at a time of your choosing without any fear or regret. Once the Numenoreans were corrupted by Sauron, they started fearing their natural end and started clinging on to life to the very last scraps of their time. This actually caused their lifespans to start becoming shorter and shorter until they were destroyed for attacking the undying lands in search of true immortality.
@Tribu_Kanto_Hagba 17 сағат бұрын
Thank you
@zigludosama 19 сағат бұрын
I appreciate that, even if Mike didn't wind up liking Shion at the end of his initial playthrough, you guys are still willing to give her character an in-depth and thoughtful analysis down the line. I still want to throw my two-cents in though: Shion, to me, is a character that hits way, WAY too close to home. Not that I'm qualified to give any diagnosis of any sort, but Shion displays several signs of Bipolar Disorder, or some disorder of the like. Someone I've been very close to my entire life has BP and playing through Xenosaga for the first time last year, I was shocked to the degree and accuracy with which traits symptomatic of the disorder were present within Shion's mannerisms and her interactions some of the characters, namely Jin. There were moments in our lives where this person would act in an "unreasonable" way not unlike Shion, and I admittedly and shamefully never tried to understand them for the longest time and dismissed their behavior as unacceptable and frustrating without accounting for a lot of the trauma and abuse that had made them that way. This person has said and done things that've made me unhappy, but I had to come to terms with that because by being dismissive of them, it only tore a further rift in our relationship, one that's gotten much better with time but has never quite been fixed fully. All I'm saying is that I hope you guys afford Shion this same level of understanding in your future analyses. You don't have to like her by the end; she's certainly not conventionally likeable by any means, but I do hope you can grow to understand just how great and thoughtfully conceived of a character she is. She's not a character for everyone but Takahashi and the writing team at Monolith knew exactly what and who this character was for, and I have to give them real props for that.
@raza5757 21 сағат бұрын
1:21:13 I mean, poisons are a big problem all over the FF multiverse.
@Hohice 23 сағат бұрын
so good as usual but can someone Q me into what the deal is with the glasses? it just freaks me out lol :P
@el_oh_ell 23 сағат бұрын
Folks using the government to get rid of their kids because it would make life difficult to keep them? Imagine a world like that….
@ChaosAngelZero Күн бұрын
The number four in Japanese is associated with death...
@markasscop Күн бұрын
I so so so cannot wait for the conclusion of this discussion, so much goes on in this game and I'm looking forward to hearing all the final thoughts
@shaifs5072 Күн бұрын
LFG
@j.g.121 Күн бұрын
"Telos" in modern Greek is the word for "end." Didn't see that mentioned in the symbology part about T-elos. Good Luck going through the game.
@j.g.121 Күн бұрын
generally you get much more dramatic answers when searching online, but thats the simple functionality of the word.
@Zack_Lyros-Lykos Күн бұрын
Hey everyone! Sorry this is a very late comment but I've only recently discovered this show/podcast. I listened to the full FF8 series and this episode and was wondering if I missed mention of the apparent fact that Seifer is Cid and Edea's son? This is evidenced by Cid holding Seifer's Triple Triad card and Edea's despite being under Ultimecia's influence; choosing her son to be her Knight
@plague223 Күн бұрын
We need a top 50 games again ASAP
@BruskytheLabrador Күн бұрын
Xenogears spoiler………………………………….Abel is a dead ringer of Fei and Nephilim is a dead ringer of Ellie. In a previous incarnation of Fei, he was a painter who painted the portrait of queen Sophia who is an earlier incarnation of Ellie. It’s like these two are forever entangled by fate and incarnation even transcending games.
@markasscop Күн бұрын
not really a spoiler, just a glance at their Xenogears portraits and you can see that they look identical
@CycloneFox Күн бұрын
Did you ever have an experience where someone came across as completely arrogant and unfriendly towards you and you eventually learn that that is not the case, but they are really just a shy person, but their evasive nature seemed to you like an aversion? The same problem is true for psychological illnesses. A person with borderline syndrom will often be mistaken as a narcissist, when in reality the exact same problem is true and they have alarmingly low self-esteem. The depiction of Shion‘s mental illness is so impressive, because it‘s realistic. There is the risk of losing a good chunk of the audience with her. And that’s exactly what happened. But it was an important lesson to show that a depressive person does not come across as „sad“ in the eyes of others. They will be evasive, build walls, not let anyone near herself and overall seem extremely unlikable. Because how could she be likable when she doesn’t even like herself. I can’t claim to know all works of fuction, but Xenosaga is the only piece that I know that represents depression right.
@godsil11 Күн бұрын
I would just like to say you have punted me right down a rabbit hole. I haven't watched the films since i was a kid, and never really delved into the books. now the audio books make up most of my work commute and im planning watch-alongs with my friends, I eagerly look forward to part 2 (assuming i dont bite the bullet and sub to the Patreon) if only because i want to play Xenosaga myself after finishing the Blade trilogy last year.
@MikeELtheGamerLPShow Күн бұрын
Wilhelm's comment about Scientia thinking that their "cage" is the entire world makes me think of Plato's Allegory of the cave. This allegory is more heavily explored in the Xenoblade Chronicles series.
@Robottsie Күн бұрын
I believe Carl jung has talked about the significance of the spine before in that its the inbetween of the mind and body or spirituality and flesh, so I think that's why the relics are in the shape of the spine as that has to do with their purpose
@metastase895 Күн бұрын
The reasons I both like and dislike Shion are the exact same as the case of Elma (Xenoblade X). Both are well written characters once you get the full picture but come off as ass until then. Both are the actual protagonists but they sure don't seem like it for the majority of their games (some people even finish Xenoblade X without realizing Elma is the actual protagonist, not your main playable character). Also, both leave A LOT unexplained which as pointed out makes it even harder to relate to them. And last but not least, having Shion story diluted in 3 very busy games is not doing her any favors, ditto for Elma's story being diluted into random side quests, easily missable events and even random NPC chat. There is a case to be made about the worth of purposefully writing protagonists where the audience doesn't know their objectives and motivation until the end of the story (Elma is even worse on this matter). When the audience doesn't know the protagonists motivation, how does that impact their perception on the themes? It muddies the water too much IMO.
@MiBrCo4177 2 күн бұрын
So I've got to ask because I've kind of been curious since the set change many, many, series ago... Where did you get those chairs from lol?
@pelgervampireduck 2 күн бұрын
I don't know if I forgot stuff or what but I'm like "who is Abel?". I guess I should watch all the Xenosaga videos again.
@ValToadstool Күн бұрын
Abel is shown briefly at the end of episode 1, but he does not become relevant until 3
@srswriter1165 2 күн бұрын
Not going too much into spoilers, but the trilogy really benefits from a replay with some hindsight on your side, particularly when it comes to the character of Shion. She has a lot of tells (some of which you actually already picked up on and discussed a bit) that show how her life and mindset are really negatively affected by depression, loneliness, and trauma. It's a bit harder to identify and understand them in a first playthrough because you don't know where the character arc is heading, or the extent of her true feelings, and she's also pretty decent at masking most of the time. I think it also helps if you are good at recognizing psychological signs, or have experienced a somewhat similar state mind in your life. Regardless of any personal feelings towards the character, a lot of the writing for her is actually really impressive, at least in my opinion. I would recommend doing another playthrough eventually anyways (on your own times, of course) as I find there's even more to pick up and more connections you can make on subsequent playthroughs.
@nessless5 2 күн бұрын
Don't forget Resonant Arc/Dark Pixel. they started as a group of 3 as well!!
@SearchmanDS 2 күн бұрын
You've reached Episode III, time for the wild ride to ramp up.
@DeathNRebirth 2 күн бұрын
1:47:57 Have you guys done a breakdown of the Neon Genesis Evangelion series? This train of thought reminds me of it. I can't remember the exact details, as its been probably close to 2 decades since I've watched it, but the feeling is very strong...
@fourthstrongest 2 күн бұрын
i don't remember where i saw this source, especially since a lot of stuff around the development of xenosaga is speculation, but i believe fei's story was meant to be episodes 3 and 4 of xenosaga. if you look at perfect works, the idea is that episodes 1 and 2 of saga would be episode 1 of perfect works, episode 3 and 4 of xenosaga would be episode 5 of perfect works (basically a xenogears remake), and then episodes 5 and 6 of xenosaga would be episode 6 of perfect works. and the only thing we know about episode 6 of perfect works is that it is meant to be the terminal point of the universe also very slight spoilers but there's a theory that some of those elements for what would be episodes 3-6 may be shown in disc 2. maybe i'll leave another comment about that later
@Twtales59 2 күн бұрын
I'm normally just a listener rather than someone who comments (I think is my first KZbin comment ever). There's an aspect on the intro I'm interested in getting your thoughts on, though. I first played through XS3 without knowing about any of the supplemental material and found myself a little colder on the opening than you guys were. Do you think the intro works well without that material? I feel like there are so many changes and new concepts being introduced in this moment (to a series already bloated with complex organizations and sci fi concepts) that anyone playing just the core texts themselves is going to feel lost or unsatisfied. When playing through the intro, I joked to my fiancée that it felt like I'd missed a whole game covering the Gnosis Terrorism. It bugged me so much, I looked into the details and that's when I learned about The Missing Year and that is where we get the resolution to Nephilim's identity which had been a major plot thread from the series beginning. You touched a bit on this sentiment in the XS2 portion and Pied Piper when you asked how players would have felt about Ziggy's backstory without having played the latter. While typing this out I guess my real question became, do you feel like putting such important content in supplemental material ends up being a detriment to the core games themselves? Thanks for the fantastic content! I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the ending. It's definitely an emotional triumph.
@aidanuzuki3449 2 күн бұрын
There's definitely a lot of conversation to be had whether the ways that Monolithsoft had to tell the story were effective or not. Unfortunately the case is that it would be impossible to decipher the beginning parts of the story without the supplemental material. Yes, it does make the experience much rockier overall. In some ways the totality of the experience is worse than say Gears or Blade where you get a single, cohesive experience. This, combined with other plot related things are reasons why Xenosaga is looked down upon or skipped by players of those games, but Xenosaga is also instrumental in understanding Takahashi's vision for his later work.
@BlackHairedTidus 2 күн бұрын
Agreed, not ideal in that it requires a bit of forgiveness from the audience. And gnosis of the behind the scenes discourse + extra lore.
@jacobmonks3722 2 күн бұрын
Due to the problems with project management and overly ambitious plotting, Pied Piper and Missing Year were separate even though they weren't meant to be. Pied Piper was supposed to be included in Episode 1, and Missing Year presumably would have been the first part of Episode 2. If that plan had actually manifested and it somehow wasn't a complete mess, there would be no supplemental material to worry about. But since they had to be economical with their time and resources, I don't know another way they could have told all this story given the circumstances.
@Twtales59 2 күн бұрын
@jacobmonks3722 Excellent point. I'm aware that those materials were split off from 2 and 3, though that raises the question of whether the related Xenosaga shortcomings are due to writing or editing issues. Should the story have been edited to compensate for what couldn't fit into the game? It's all really important, really good, stuff so there's no way of knowing if that would be a satisfactory answer. I guess it depends on whether we consider the Xenosaga story to be the core games or them and the supplemental materials. I personally think the core games should be able to tell the story in its entirety, but I'm not sure I have any persuasive argument as to why it should be that way. It's not like we can base it on the core games having a wide release while the supplemental material was only available in Japan. XS 1 didn't see a European release and the series itself had been out of print for almost two decades. A bit of a tangent, but I suppose if Xenosaga was made today, both Pied Piper and Missing Year may have been released a la Torna for Xenoblade 2. Cut content released as DLC.
@metastase895 Күн бұрын
@@Twtales59 Takahashi said in an interview that JRPGs were going into a direction where their stories were getting bigger and bigger and that in hindsight he also made that mistake. It was for that reason that with Xenoblade, he aimed at something closer to 50% focus on story and 50% on gameplay. As for Xenoblade X, he experimented going the complete opposite direction. Focus all in on gameplay and leave most of the story as optional content. He also did what he originally wanted to do with Xenogears gameplay-wise: a map system that smoothly works simultaneously for on foot characters and giant mechas. "that anyone playing just the core texts themselves is going to feel lost or unsatisfied" This is true for all Takahashi games though. None of them are all that satisfying if you don't know/research all the references. Even Xenoblade 1 rings too shallow without researching the Monad or how it is thematically tied to Perfect Works. Being this convoluted is generally a bad idea if you're trying to sell a story but with the benefit of hindsight it made Takahashi RPGs unique and deep in a pool of many, many generic JRPGs. My favorite framework he attempted is by far Xenoblade X. Shallow as a puddle on the very short mandatory story path, then escalates deeper and deeper, layer by layer the more you dig in the optional content until it fits with every other game he made into a perfect work that elaborates on Xenogears, Xenosaga, Xenoblades and science-fiction as a whole.
@tinyguy9398 2 күн бұрын
I always thought Abel’s “sad being this way” line was referring to KOS MOS and NOT to Shion. For Mike, if you think about the flashback near the end of the game. The fight immediately preceding the penultimate boss fight; Shion’s words to KOSMOS: “You’re sad, aren’t you? KOS MOS!? Are those tears? You’ve lost sight of yourself, just like me.” Abel is leading Shion and her party to KOS MOS and so I interpret that he is leading Shion TO the ‘sad being’. It makes a lot more sense for KOS MOS to be a sad being, given her broken state (not just physically, but psychologically and spiritually as well). So Abel is saying, ‘this way to the sad being’.
@aidanuzuki3449 2 күн бұрын
I believe that Abel is talking about Shion actually in this scene. If you think about it, every party member is inflicted with a deep sadness, though Shion might not even believe she is acting out in sadness. Perhaps what you are saying could also be true and it's a double meaning. In the scene where Nephilim talks to Shion in the hotel, the "sad being" she is referring to in this scene is actually Kevin.
@tinyguy9398 2 күн бұрын
+aidanuzuki3449 I’ve debated both interpretations and I’ll admit either scenario works. I just settled on KOS MOS given that, at that time, she has just been discarded as trash and due to the later quote by Shion about KOS MOS being sad and having tears. But Shion being the subject of the sentence makes a lot of sense too. The placement of the comma seems to support your argument since grammatically the comma preceding the imperative clause would indicate ‘sad being’ is likely the subject, or the person being requested to perform the action (Shion) whereas without the comma it is more likely ‘sad being’ is the object (KOS MOS). I am not sure how closely Japanese grammar holds to this rule, but it would be interesting to see if the Japanese text used punctuation in a similar manner.
@metastase895 Күн бұрын
@@tinyguy9398 I'm curious about how this scene is written in Japanese too, for all we know "sad being" might be referring to the state of being human itself (knowing that you are trapped and you are going to die).
@opkij86 2 күн бұрын
I will keep leaving comments with some overlooked details that might or might not come up again. Not mentioning that Sellers have built a 13th emulator is a big miss for me!
@aidanuzuki3449 2 күн бұрын
It is difficult to discern that he made an emulator based off Joachim's designs unless you are really paying attention to the conversation he has with Yuriev or dig into the database. The database is really important for understanding this game though, just about as important as item descriptions in a From Software game.
@opkij86 2 күн бұрын
@@aidanuzuki3449 Haha, a comparison I never thought I would hear. But true, very easy to miss details and especially since the tempo is much higher this time, still Sellers clearly says in a voiced cutscene that he built a spare emulator and that it outputs too much energy. The fact that it is grey and can be hard to spot in all the action scenes is also true.
@aidanuzuki3449 2 күн бұрын
@@opkij86 Yeah I'm just using it as a point of comparison for the material that exists inside the game. Many don't like this datalog way of doing things but engaging with the game further than just simply playing it is all part of the fun!
@jacobmonks3722 2 күн бұрын
@aidanuzuki3449 I don't mind needing to read stuff, but Xenosaga just suffers from having too much stuff to read, and so much of it is essential to understand the story. If it was more like Metroid Prime, where the datalogs are really just there to flesh out the world and give context to certain concepts like Phazon or the Chozo Artifacts, but are largely unrelated to what the player should actually care about, it would be far more palletable.
@dustinp1164 2 күн бұрын
Thank you for reminding me. I need to change my air filter :D It has been over 3 months.
@stevenrohttis4202 2 күн бұрын
The way I would LOVE to be that Shion stan you bring on 😭
@TheBeird 2 күн бұрын
1:14:45 To be fair, the Agents upgrade and get beefier in Matrix Reloaded but Neo still kicks their asses. How Morpheus is able to stand his ground against one on the back of the truck is another matter 🤔
@stevenrohttis4202 2 күн бұрын
This is 100% contender for best RPG on the PS2. Sad that it didn't get the recognition it deserved at the time but this podcast series is proof that it is being appreciated NOW
@jacobmonks3722 2 күн бұрын
Xenosaga 3, Final Fantasy X, and Kingdom Hearts 2 are probably the top spots. I've heard good things about Dragon Quest VIII as well, but I know very little about it.
@xKayges 2 күн бұрын
I'm looking forward to the rest of the analysis so much. I still believe Shion is one of the best-written characters in a video game when it comes to what one might expect a real human, who has gone through what she has, to act like. The more that's revealed about her past, which she constantly represses, the more we as the audience realize that her actions and reactions to things have so much more behind them than what's at surface level - we just have to be willing to put ourselves in her shoes.
@andrewmiroshnik7883 2 күн бұрын
And yeah, this game look freeking awsome even today. Yeah, first game look's no that impressive, but when you see something like this in 2001 it blows minds, compering to FF 10 where polygons just shaking. Also in Xenosaga 1 monolith already use revolutional technology as blendshape for facial expression. It will be coo to get this quality for game today :<>
@andrewmiroshnik7883 2 күн бұрын
3 dots podcast, yeah :DD But as i remember right, whole design was mabe by third party studio "CHOCO" so all that cool looking mech's and cloth style is their work.
@quiddity131 2 күн бұрын
Isn't Choco a person, not a studio? I remember they brought him back to design the Ouroborus in Xenoblade 3.
@andrewmiroshnik7883 2 күн бұрын
@@quiddity131 Actually, i don't know. When i see amount of work in artbook and official website it feels like studio
@multipleXx 2 күн бұрын
Moebius Hotel…. Puts conspiracy theory hat on.
@threetoadsloth 2 күн бұрын
Spoilers! In reference to your Xenogears spoilers, look at the form that Omega takes after it absobs the Zohar,... To me (and i could be mistaken), but it looks an awful lot like the Alpha Weltall from Xenogears
@quiddity131 2 күн бұрын
My recollection is it actually closely resembles Spoilers... The final boss version of Deus from Xenogears
@lionelplayerone 2 күн бұрын
Kosmos noun das gesamte Weltall; das Universum Kosmos → cosmos; Kosmos noun the universe cosmos; → Kosmos; an ordered, harmonious whole cosmos; → Kosmos; Weltall Noun Weltall, das ~ (UniversumWeltraumAll) space, the ~ Noun universe, the ~ Noun outer space, the ~ Noun
@coreyrachar9694 2 күн бұрын
He's more committed to those goggles than I am to my girlfriend!
@ValToadstool 2 күн бұрын
While the game looks amazing, I think it's unfortunate that much of the game's scenes are told through text boxes rather than the high-quality, fully animated cutscenes.
@quiddity131 2 күн бұрын
I never minded it; they are all fully voiced and have a wide variety of character portraits to express their emotions. And when it is a big action scene they switch to a full animated cutscene. Frankly I think the first two games should have done the same.
@aidanuzuki3449 2 күн бұрын
I really do not understand this criticism of the game at all. Imagine if people said "Yeah, Persona 3 and 4 were great and all but unfortunately the story is told through text boxes". Literally no one says this for any other RPG and the game still does have really good cinematics. The text box scenes bring the presentation and camera work for them a lot closer to Xenogears in this way also.
@opkij86 2 күн бұрын
@@aidanuzuki3449 I was skeptical about the text boxes before release but in the end I love them and the only way the game could have been done. Doing everything in high budget cutscenes would add another disc, another year to develop and of course made them lose even more players who would have moved on to other games while waiting.
@BlackHairedTidus 2 күн бұрын
Throughout XS's 1 and 2, a majority of the cutscenes where they stand around and talk came across to me like those would work best in textboxes. Monolith Soft at the time most likely consisted of scene directors who were more comfortable in writing for RPGs from the SNES or PSX era where they didn't account for voice acting and choreography that are in line with cinema. XS3 choosing to go this route tells me that they needed to compromise and stick with what they know best.
@jacobmonks3722 2 күн бұрын
This was also a complaint some people had about the first Xenoblade game, how all the smaller cutscenes had very repetitive and generic character animations. But the reason I don't mind is because they are as expressive as they need to be and it gave the team the time to make the more important cutscene animations REALLY good.
@EffortlessAttempt 2 күн бұрын
Interesting. More of 'us' should convene. I had an original copy of the Japanese game and beat it, as well. Using a translation of course, I would say maybe 20% or so of the time, I just guessed right. Back in 1998--1999. Took me months to beat!
@quiddity131 2 күн бұрын
Glad to hear you enjoying the start of the game. Whether its story, graphics, gameplay, music, hard to not consider this peak Xenosaga content the rest of the way, particularly with it coming after what was a disappointing second game for many people. At most one might be able to say the voice acting is better in the first game although this one is still very strong and thankfully brings Lia Sargent and Bridget Hoffman back for Shion/KOS-MOS respectively. At some point I believe you mentioned it was the Vessels of Anima named after the tribes of Israel but its actually the E.S.s as well (or perhaps the Vessels don't have names, I can't remember for sure). This is a contrast to Xenogears, where the Gears and their respective Anima Relics had different names. I think its pretty much impossible to not have passionate feelings about how Shion is portrayed in this game, either good or bad. Looking forward to the discussion when we get there. Off the top of my head, fellow KZbinr Enel is probably the biggest Shion defender I can think of, or at least the most well known. All I'll say at this point is that one doesn't have to like a character for it to be great writing.
@dariyanvalentine3564 2 күн бұрын
For some odd reason these ships remind me of the ship from flight of the navigator a lot
@Zoeila 3 күн бұрын
Telos means absolute power kosmos means chaos
@kirkcavanaugh1493 3 күн бұрын
What's with the goggles?