Nightmares Exist Outside Of Logic | Alan Wake Analysis: (Ep.2) | State of the Arc Podcast

[@HiddenMachineGaming]

Hardcore Remedy lore nerd here- very refreshing to hear this sort of take on Alan Wake's narrative, really appreciate the discussion!

[@msmoon6011]

Great to see a comment from one of the gurus of the RCU. Love your channel!

[@ickylark5354]

Alan Wake is a perfect game for this podcast

[@enk273]

I wanted to post my appreciation for the summary interjections. These really help the listener to keep track what scene is being talked about when it's been a while since they last played the game. In Xenosaga 2 and 3 episodes in particular it was very hard to follow what scene was being talked about. As a Finn myself I will have to say that I have never heard the Baba Yaga stuff in any amount of detail before this, but I am from the west coast where we have much less connection to the slavic roots, so maybe it comes up more in the east. But damn that cabin is so insanely on the nose if you know, amazing. We do have our own folklore witch, Louhi, but I have not done much research what she could be influenced by.

[@LPN00b]

YES, I second this. For games I didn't play and am unable to play along, I got a bit lost when you guys changed the format. These interjections really help, thanks a lot guys!

[@FatedTim]

Fantastic episode, I really think Alan Wake is such a fantastic franchise for this show because it is DROWNING in symbolism.

[@nesleehan5]

Oh I love how you talked about the fact that the basic/core themes like light and darkness can be easily found on a children's book because Sam Lake has written a children's book. Great discussion, I'm looking forward to all the episodes about both Alan Wake games. I'm new to the podcast but hey I'm a fan!

[@TheGunmanChannel]

This was my favourite episode yet, maybe because I played Alan Wake recently, you guys picked up on so much that just went straight over my head.

[@tessier-ashpool3462]

Man, I'm so stoked on the conversations that will be had with this and potentially Alan Wake 2. I feel like both of these games were MADE for the guys.

[@nicolasray1571]

I love the new narration tracks you weave into the video. Adds a nice touch of dramatic flair!

[@HRZN_YT]

I appreciate the back and forth narration to frame the different sections of the podcast

[@BrockWalshCTD]

Aye, Casen thanks for the shoutout about my Dune correlation comment!

[@ResonantArc]

And thank you for the comment!

[@jakekrzymowski2166]

I played Alan Wake when it first came out. I just recently finished playing Control, and started Alan Wake II last night. This series has really got its grips on me right now and this podcast is coming out at a great time to help me tie it all together.

[@DoctorCarth]

Right there with you. I hope if the tv/streaming adaptation comes to fruition they do it justice.

[@jakekrzymowski2166]

@ same I want that mainly so my girlfriend can enjoy this awesome story too.

[@mtburr1089]

2B’s opening monologue from Nier: Automata, “Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him." I was immediately hooked. It remains my favorite quote from any game, and like Mike said, is essentially the thesis for the game moving forward. Great episode, guys! I especially loved Casen’s analysis of the Stephen King quote about fear in mystery. Casen: “…The mysteries have value, in, and of, themselves. The questions are still important, and finding the right question is often more important than finding the answer…” Extremely well put and insightful analysis. Thanks for being the best part of my Mondays and Wednesdays!

[@12narutouzamaki12]

I appreciate you guys doing the tiny story bits before each discussion. It made it far easier to remember and follow along. Been watching you guys for a long time, but this one felt far more easier to go with than other ones because of how you did it

[@RokkouA1]

Comparing questions to mathematical equations is absolutely facsinating to me and it makes total sense. It feels like this puzzle piece that I've been trying to grasp forever is finally in my hands. For a while now I've been forming this idea that no matter what in life there is an unfathomable number of problems and answers all of which are volatile at any given moment for any number of reasons. Focusing on the answers will make you miss the forest for the trees. Rather one should look at life under a broad foundation of questions/equations. That finally shone a light into this dark lake of answers for me.

[@Starlightean]

This analysis is spectacular to follow. You guys are really exploring the depth, symbolism and multitudes of themes and possibilities in the game, and it's neat to hear a good range of approaches and interpretations. You treat mystery storytelling with respect and open minds (and third eyes). I'm all here for it.

[@DJTS1991Yes]

Hi Mike and Casen, In the video, you make a reference to Pat Maine, the radio guy, maybe being a subtle allegory for Thomas Zane. Well, if you move the letters around, Pat Maine, sounds an awful lot like Max Payne. Coincidence? Maybe overthinking it. His radio show is called The Night Owl. An owl is in the cabin study as the third eye. We also meet him on the boat heading into Bright Falls. I think, in another life, Pat used Thomas Zane as an alias for his published poetry, and his muse was his wife Barbara Jaeger. Together, they had a daughter, Sarah, the town sheriff, and shortly afterward, Pat and Barbara’s relationship dissolved - this relationship is potentially discussed in part during a radio segment in Episode 3. I have a feeling though - and I’m not sure about this - the Lamp Lady is the dark reflection of Barbara, and they’re possibly even the same person symbolically. Just a random theory. This is probably not even true now given Control and Alan Wake 2 exist but I haven’t played those. Finally, before I go, to Mike specifically, your message at the end of the last message resonates with me. I want you to know that by making these podcasts, you ‘are’ having a positive impact on the people that listen. And I’m saying this from Australia. You and Casen have touched so many people with your discussions over the lifetime of the channel, and I can say, arguably, the subtle changes you’ve made by sharing your conversations to the world are not to be understated. You’re an absolute legend. Cheers.

[@leonardoedsona]

Cant wait till u guys play Alan Wake 2. Yall are gonna flip

[@k.l.7788]

I know! Cannot wait. 🤩

[@AshenVictor]

The name in the game is Jagger pronounced like Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones. I have a feeling that might be part of the reference as well because Alan Wake frequently revolves around the generative power of creativity and art including music. Speaking of music, any time there's a song the lyrics are probably important.

[@Y-two-K]

Damn, they reference the Boring Stones to evoke images of creativity? Literally any other fondly remembered big 60’s band was more risky and clever lol

[@IronCodyAlan]

My wifes maiden name is Yäger and it IS a reference to the hunt/hunter- more specifically when you said deer fest- made me think of the deer of the jager bottle

[@LPN00b]

Crossing a river is symbolic too. Crossing the river Styx, it's a traversal from one side to the other. In a way SIlent Hill 2's crossing the lake is also a transition, but that game is filled with transitions.

[@kallemort]

The fact that neither of you has played Alan Wake 2, ooh. That's gonna be a juicy series. Hope you're planning on going through all the RCU games in release order eventually as they build up on each other very nicely.

[@ryandude3]

I played this once over a decade ago. I enjoyed it, but wasn't planning to replay it. This ep convinced me to install the remastered version and give it a go! Excited to dig deeper into the symbolism here.

[@TheBeird]

You missed a beat not doing "Previously, on Resonant Arc." Maybe a bit on the nose come to think of it, but appropriate. I came to Alan Wake as a fan of the Max Payne games, and the opening alone told me Remedy had outdone themselves. Such a good intro. I desperately wanna experience Twin Peaks. I know all about it from cultural osmosis but that doesn't deter me. Twin Peaks The Return is extra special now because it's probably the last thing David Lynch will direct.

[@Y-two-K]

Twin Peaks is fantastic. Watched it all a year ago. But it’s not all Lynch, Mark Frost had a lot to do with it too.

[@adthomp]

I’d love so much for you to cover twin peaks that be amazing

[@miiks...5...3...9...]

The owls are not what they seem

[@DanielSantosAnalysis]

Currently playing through the game for the first time so I can follow along the podcast. I gotta say I'm really enjoying the story, but man the gameplay is kinda rough lol. Enjoying y'alls takes and observations aswell.

[@josephhawkins7974]

This was an excellent episode!!

[@OldMooney]

In terms of personal framework, which is so true, it's very much an equation you craft to help you navigate life. A friend of mine set me onto the Clifton Strengths and I felt it was very woo-woo, but 5 years later, I really can't argue with the results. A team through the Write Better Faster Academy helped me understand my personal framework through the lens of the Clifton Strengths. I feel a lot less guilt about being so analytical and strategic in my thinking, which for me are super powers and by leaning into them have made me more efficient at things I navigate through and toward. Anyway, a lot of what you said about personal framework made me think about that. I know you were speaking about creative interpretation. I look forward to watching this series. Loved your FF VI retrospective, and your take on Silent Hill 2.

[@Boki_86]

Listening to the first 2 episodes let me really really hope they gonna do Control and AW 2 and possibly AW American nightmare.

[@Shanmania]

Love the editing

[@PSYHICDODO]

I’d be surprised if you guys aren’t already aware but just in case I’d like to point you in the direction of the folklore about Thomas Learmont or True Thomas, the deer fest element has some very interesting implications along with the name Thomas.

[@OhYeah_]

I'm so excited for when you guys get to Control and Alan Wake 2

[@clairvauxbrnrd]

connecting some Lynch stuff to the Stephen King quote all of Lynch’s works are based off this kind of dream logic not that the characters are literally dreaming but scenes can “linger” or more than that “wander” like when dream your brain can create various seemingly random symbols and scenarios, Lynch’s artistic roots actually start with painting, so a lot of his works aren’t made to actually like have a single unifying answer or theory that solves it all but the way he lays scenes together is about evoking a specific emotion in you, even if the scene doesn’t make sense logical, it makes a certain amount of “emotional” sense, it’s a self reflective excercise, why does that make me feel that, what do my own feelings say about what this movie or show is trying to do

[@clairvauxbrnrd]

there is a very sly metaphor going on with Alan forgetting himself ever having written Departure the idea is that Alan has written himself as a character into his own story, but characters in a story cannot be saved by Deus ex Machina, they cannot just “know” whats gonna happen, Alan needs to find an ending for Departure that makes sense and is properly “foreshadowed” in a sense, the real Alan only exists inside of a higher plane of existence where the stories he writes come to life, Alan as he can’t remember ever writing Initiation is like his avatar or his astral projection, a sensory through which he interacts with these realities, but to do that he has to limit himself, like a god incarnating into the mortal realm and such

[@clairvauxbrnrd]

you’ll notice something else with the meaning of the title Departure, it’s the first act of the hero’s journey, departure, initiation, and return, Alan is in a sense recreating the one only story that exists at the heart of all stories, supposedly, the monomyth, the hero’s journey

[@jamesk2325]

I'm so mad I never made the baba yaga connection when it sounds so obvious when you point it out

[@orcbrand]

Discussion on limitations (framing) being the source of meaning reminds me of the final episode of Evangelion where Shinji imagines an empty world and reconstructs reality by first drawing a line. One other note: a game that telegraphs a lot of future events, but then subverts them or otherwise pays off on the previously revealed future information is actually.... Final Fantasy X. Tidus's retrospective narration does a similar thing to Alan Wake and Dune repeatedly. I would also say Final Fantasy Tactic's historiogrpahical framing works similarly. .... oh and of course, VAGRANT STORY! A lot of our favorite games have done this!

[@ImJaredRoss]

Recently played this game for the first time after I found out this was your next big discussion. Can’t wait for this.

[@socialistprofessor3206]

After listening to this, I need to hear The Poet and The Muse again. I'd rank that with Melodies of Life and Memories of You as the best video game songs ever.

[@DungeonBricks]

On 42 in hitchhikers, someone decoded the number to hexahesimal (I think?, it escapes me) saying 42 is love, so love is the answer to the universe and everything. However, the author later said it was a fun coincidence, as he randomly picked the number.

[@AshenVictor]

Yeah, and the "question" in the third book intentionally doesn't match the answer because life is silly and makes no sense.

[@jacekraniowski3891]

In Prince of Persia sands of time, we experienced a flash forward visions of the game every checkpoint. It was a similar gimmick to AW's Departure pages.

[@Epicmfnmn]

Bravely Default has a story device where they reveal events before they occur. Ringabel's diary essentially covers all of the events of the game, and you can read it from the moment you recruit him

[@frankeeeej]

'Babayaga' sounds a lot like 'Getting over it with Benneth Foddy'

[@kevinstreetgaming]

We need Mike and Casen to do a dive dive into Bohemian Grove.

[@misslethal2355]

"we'll have to make more videos for this series" hey don't threaten me with a good time

[@BrundzOG]

TIL that Barbara Yeager is Baba Yaga. Mind. Blown.

[@penyuwan]

Holy Shit, thats why Hartman turned that thing in Control. Is in his name. That one flew over me.

[@mabonman]

SPOILERS i think the owls are a twin peaks reference the owls are not what they seem i think Zane isn't what he seems just my own lil theory kinda thing (I've played AW1 and Control and am about to start AW2 v soon)

[@mabonman]

Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase do twin peaks You two doing twin peaks (especially s3) would be transcendental!! 😅

[@queenmarsia]

50:11 Stephen King has no memory of writing Cujo. He was on a heavy bender and dosent remember any of the process. Very likely Sam Lake knew about this and incorporated this into the game.

[@caturiges]

21:26 Batman will remember that.

[@BenboQuest]

eastern orthodoxy mentioned baby lets go

[@therayldeal6683]

Barbara Jaeger sounds phonetically similar to Baba Yaga as well.

[@aaronveerdhillon3095]

Where do the guys stream the games?

[@ResonantArc]

Additional content like that is available on Patreon

[@Christianklemz]

Guys, where can I watch mike playing those games live? Is it for members only?

[@ResonantArc]

Yep! Check the Patreon link in the description.

[@patrickweller5254]

I wouldn't say "you can hurt yourself" is unusual, personally.

[@ResonantArc]

It's something you might say to a child, but I think the more common phrase would be "you'll get hurt."

[@MrFraynejames]

You remeber the things your dad says forever.

[@zinv08]

Nice

[@jacobmonks3722]

I will get to this game someday, but for now I will have to skip this podcast. Keep up the great work!

[@Ragd0ll1337]

For once the KZbin algorithm led me to somewhere I really wanted to be

[@liamschulzrules]

"You can hurt yourself" is probably a British phrase. As a loyal Australian it doesnt stand out to me at all. It must be your American language with all it's inherent treachery, deceit and tax avoidance that makes it sound alien to you.

[@monto4944]

Baba Yaga is a character in a bunch of slavic folklores, it's kinda infuriating that people call everything slavic "russian"

[@ResonantArc]

I believe that I say that in the video. I focus on Russia not just because it's the largest Slavic nation, but because it's the one that connects to Finland.

[@Scimarad]

Well I made it further on the remaster than I did on the original. In hindsight I should probably just have put it on easy as I was enjoying the story stuff and even the exploration but I got to the bit where you are supposed to defend the viewing platform and I realised I just wasn't remotely enjoying the action stuff at all. I kind of wish I could just put it on story mode and skip all the combat nonsense. Regardless, I'm definitely going to watch the rest of your series even if I do stop playing.