Resources and Favouritism in Fire Emblem

I'm telling you hoarding is a pitfall.
Thanks to ‪@Scepti‬ for the Benny
Patreon: / mekkah
Twitter: / mekkkkah
Subscribe: www.youtube.co...
Discord: / discord
Design by Ryn: / ryntai / spo.ink/ryntube

[@l-days9583]

it's not about making the best team, the best unit, it's about which class has the coolest sprite

[@lilben4184]

[Amelia In General has entered the chat]

[@mihaimercenarul7467]

@Lionel ew

[@paladia_gorom1973]

The divine truth!

[@xuanathan]

@@lilben4184 Great Knight Amelia looks cooler I said what I said 😤

[@persona3thegoat]

Myrms/Swordmasters. no i will not listen to any other opinion

[@Rengor1997]

A whole 12 minutes spent just to avoid saying "feed all your early game boosters to Lumn"

[@TuskyBaby]

Tbh your "Hoarding is a pitfall" video really improved my FE experiences, and has allowed me to push into the tougher challenges the franchise has to offer. It also makes the games WAYYYY more fun and fast paced.

[@sohn7767]

Yeah, having to decide to use or not to use a stat booster every map can be nerve wrecking

[@Haimi-fv5xj]

I can relate 100 percent. I played fe, liked fe but I was always left unsatisfied with something, like why my nino and lyn after all I went through to make them strong weren’t soloing my chapters or something the like. (I remember hoarding all my statboosters to make Lyn wield the sol Kati at the end of the game and she still got clapped by everyone) When I watched pitfals and applied my newfound knowledge, used good units and items to their full potential the games opened up a completely new realm of possibilities. The most impactful video asside from the use your jagens video was also the hoarding one.

[@airraid1266]

It didnt just improve FE experiences fot me, it improved ALL RPGs. And I have been taking advantage of it with the new System Shock Remake, after all unless there is a resource check then make uee of whatcha got

[@absoul112]

I’ve never seen Benny (trained let alone base level) double a master ninja before. Now I want to replay conquest and make it happen.

[@Docaccino]

The stat stacking that's possible in Fates is absolutely insane lmao

[@zer0vision891]

@@Docaccino Awakening and Engage too. Awakening has Rally stacking, so easy +6 to all stats with option to push individual stats to +10 with Rally Heart, Spectrum, and others of your choice on just one unit. For Engage, you can just hand out +8 to all stats with Dragon Instruct, Rally, and Dragon Contract, as well as +2 to all with Tonics, which isn't even the full depth of it.

[@GIR177]

He can only do so on his birthday or gets a random Spd surge. That's what the Status +4 signifies, otherwise he's just short.

[@SpookSkellington]

I see a shaman, i give ALL my resources to my shaman. If my shaman has a million fans, then I am one of them. If my shaman has ten fans, then I am one of them. If my shaman has only one fan then that is me. If my shaman has no fans, then that means I got doubled and killed. If level up rng is against my shaman, then I say fuck stats, and i will restart for my shaman. Dark magic users are love, dark magic users are life.

[@jimjimson6208]

what if your shaman is Sophia though 💀

[@crysosisback7115]

@@jimjimson6208 Well you restart that desert map until you've killed every single fucking bandit there is on this map Then you promote that bitch, and you finish the game with her At some point, it's just about the challenge of doing that

[@caliburnleaf9323]

"I told you all hoarding is a pitfall 6 years ago." What a perfect way to end the video.

[@MythrilZenith]

I feel like this video sums up a decent amount of my frustration with the current discussion of Engage units as a whole, and why I've needed to take a step back from discussions for a bit. The fact that your choice of resource use seems to matter more than your choice of unit feels very antithetical to how we are used to thinking about Fire Emblem, though it is perhaps at its peak in Engage.

[@FLITTLEFANATIC]

This is so true. Like we've seen it in more recent games anyway with Clive, or even Jill in Radiant Dawn. Like if you don't give Clive a speed fountain and get him promoted, he's not the greatest but the thing is, its optimal to do that so the resources are justified. Same thing with Jill, if you don't give her a lot of resources, then her issues will not be fixed, so while she won't be bad, she will struggle early game with dealing damage. We really need to start thinking what resources can do for a unit rather then just dismissing it and saying these resources are not justified immediately without giving them thought, especially in newer games where these resources are plentiful and there is a lot to go around.

[@lanceknightmare]

The thing about Clive is due to his high movement as a Cavalier he ends up even better than Lukas. Lukas in Echoes is a solid standard for how a unit should be. He is tanky and hits hard, but is vulnerable to magical attacks. Even though Clive is still vulnerable to magical attacks and is less tanky than Lukas. His movement allows him to counter those same threats that Lukas struggles with better.

[@alexpowell1184]

Clive is never optimal he’s mid.

[@FLITTLEFANATIC]

@@alexpowell1184 something makes me think you haven't watched a particular video on this channel about Clive... 👀

[@alexpowell1184]

@@FLITTLEFANATIC i have but i disagree. also clive is ugly

[@ohandthefracking]

@@FLITTLEFANATIC hes still mid and even at the very best being weirdly blessed still gets outmatched by Mathilda LOL

[@nova338]

I absolutely loved this video. Such an approachable way to add nuance to this kind of discussion. Would love to see more like this!

[@FiboSai]

Here is the most extreme example I can think of: Seliph in FE4. Without favoritism, he is a very mediocre lord you have to drag across every map. The game forcing you to sieze every castle with him heavily incentivises you to give him all the reasources he needs to accomplish that task as efficiently as possible, so it is optimal to have him inherit evey good ring and a powerful sword from Sigurd to solo chapter 6 to get him to promotion immediately. Every other character that joins in that chapter and requires experience to be usable gets completely shafted. Giving experience to Diarmud or Larcei in chapter 6 delays Seliphs promotion, not to mention that they probably won't have the optimal equipment to start with because the best stuff is already on Seliph.

[@jouheikisaragi6075]

Yeah, it's why some ancient comment sections actually whined that Seliph sucked when compared to his dad. Because they didn't give him all the resources to make him good, but this doesn't make Seliph bad, because he is the best user of those resources anyway. It's more of a problem with FE4's map design and general game structure(love that game, but it's horribly flawed). I've actually wanted more of an FE4 successor than a remake cause a remake needs to keep some of FE4's issues due to the game's core design, a successor is allowed to change and fix the core problems with the design while also keeping the appeal, so for example: seizing being universal or at least more widespread and adding more objectives all around the giant maps so all units have something to do rather than "Move is the best stat", this would make a more solid game than FE4 but because FE4 is so intrinsically designed WITHOUT these, adding them or adding rescue or trade will change the game into something else and at that point it's not a remake, just a new game with a nostalgic filter.

[@reid5179]

I remember thinking or reading similar things in comments from Mekkah's top 15 units video (my favorite video of his that I'll always hope he revisits) with regards to Seliph and Jill. There was an interesting thought someone had of considering the units in the game simply as vehicles for resources, rather than the other way around. Thinking like "the stat boosters perform best when equipped to Jill" instead of "Jill performs best with all the stat boosters". Same for the Seliph situation you mentioned - the resources (rings, swords, map experience, etc.) give the best return when given to Seliph compared to everyone else. It was touched on briefly in this video with the Haar vs. Mia/Brom/Kyza example too, but I think it would be cool to explore the concept further. Or maybe this video was enough and my critical thinking skills are not good lul

[@UfoLoche]

I'll say I think the main thing that works in Seliph's favor is that these resources honestly don't work too well on the units you get. Dermott/Diarmud, Larcei, and Ulster don't really need the Speed or Power Rings. Meanwhile, Dermott REALLY wants the Shield Sword or at least the Shield Ring, and Larcei would really benefit from the Skill Ring for that extra 5% Astra chance. It also helps that, at least in their case, you'll probably have at least two swords that are in the crit-range or close to it(The Ch.1 Silver and the Brave), so you can afford to give Seliph one and the other to one of the others. In Seliph's case, he probably doesn't want to use the Shield Sword(and can't make effective use of it anyway because no canto until promotion, by which point his defense will probably be huge), and he doesn't really rely on skill-activation procs so he doesn't need the Skill Ring. Meanwhile, Lester and Fee are in a situation where they'd both really like the Power Ring, but they can(probably will) get the Killer/Brave Bows and ALL the lances respectively, so they don't really need to worry about it. Fee in particular is interesting, because Lewyn!Fee does suffer, but the B.Lance is so good that it'll carry her until she can get the +5 Str later on, which offsets the need for a Power Ring. Outside of that, Arthur'll probably double just fine if you give him a Wind tome(Or if you're not gonna use him, it doesn't matter) and isn't going to have competition for the magic ring for the long haul(possibly the entire game since there's not really another good user of it if you do Lewyn!Ced besides Tinni, who is probably better off just waiting for the 2nd Magic Ring), Lana (who doesn't need any resources), and Julia(Who doesn't need it because 100% Magic Growth, Nosferatu/Aura being bonkers, and..well, obvious reasons for why she's not a good candidate for the second magic ring). There's also Johan, but he can't inherit, and even if I do think Johan gets a bad rep, it's better off waiting to give him a leg up until later on, and he'll contribute just fine until then anyway because the Brave Axe is a silly weapon. Oifey also can't inherit, and he's strong enough that he doesn't even need rings. I think if there was more overlap, you could probably make a bit more of an argument for Seliph being a bad lord(Or at the very least lackluster), but the game is just conveniently set up to where you can easily afford to give him all these resources because the other units will probably want other ones instead. So he instead ends up being one of the best because his rocky start is offset and then he becomes bonkers on promotion(Just like Leif).

[@serpent2776]

Mfw I favor Seliph but he still gets strength screwed and is worse than Ares and Leif

[@kimitohanahala8674]

@@serpent2776 rng issue

[@chaosflash912]

This is why I don't worry about tier lists as much with the more modern entries, since you have way more resources at your disposal to make anyone good. I personally think the most important thing is HOW you use those resources, if you can make what you set out to accomplish work, then sure sure, go for it, treat it like a puzzle to figure out how you can do all these different wacky things with your strats.

[@dryzalizer]

I agree, in most of modern FE there are fewer truly bad units than there used to be. This means that it's not that hard to use your favorite and turn them into an amazing unit even if they require more investment than someone else's favorite or the most efficient unit. The Rolfs, Rebeccas, Neimis, Wendys, and Sophias are gone. Plus Engage gave us Vander who is useful early but actually falls off hard, unlike so many other Jagens.

[@lanceknightmare]

The easiest way to figure who should gain resources is to look at those units which only need a small boost on their join chapter. If the strongest monster is 30 attack, 100 hit, 30 avoid, 20 crit, 30 speed, 40 hit-points, 20 defense and 20 magical defense, 15 luck. Your unit has 45 attack, 137 hit, 45 avoid, 30 crit, 33 speed, 30 hit-points, 15 defense, 15 magical defense, 17 luck. If this is Awakening an extra +2 speed, +3 luck are the most important things to counter the critical hit and hit twice. A small amount of resources are changing an outcome.

[@lanceknightmare]

@@dryzalizer Virions do exist unfortunately. I define a Virion as both the character in Awakening as well as the worst in their role.

[@theoreticallyinsane5]

I have been absolutely loving your Engage analyses, and I think the thing I like most about your Engage analyses in particular is you are largely operating under the presumption of use with a unit, which, as someone who is a masochist and very much enjoys using more mediocre or 'unusable' units to the best of their ability, appreciates greatly. To me, it's the difference between asking, "*Why* should I use this unit?" and asking "*How* could I use this unit?" Because so much unit discussion ends at, "Don't use this unit, they're bad" and it is just, not very helpful advice if you actually want to try out a mediocre or poor unit, and attempts to counter that narrative will be met with claims of favoritism as you describe. 'Unusable,' especially, has become something of a Red Flag whenever I enter these discussions because there are so few units that are actually unusable in Fire Emblem. It's very refreshing as someone who has also been around this community for over a decade and change to actually discuss a unit in a way that centers the discussion on the actual unit and not what you're giving up by trying to use that unit.

[@shannonjones8877]

Exactly. People get so caught up in wanting to number crunch to figure out which unit is "better" that it completely misses the point. It doesn't matter who is "better" (and "better" _how,_ first of all) when you can beat the game with any combination of units. Like people will be like "why use Etie if Alcryst is 'better'?" or "why invest in Firene units if Solm units are 'better' with no investment?", but it basically boils down to "i want to and it works". There doesn't need to be a "better" reason than that.

[@DD151]

Oh no, it's 2011 and we're talking about negative utility all over again!

[@AnandTripathi-dd8go]

-Holy shit Jagen came back from the grave, big fan- Hey dondon, have you played Engage yet? Any thoughts on who the best and worst units are in casual or LTC context?

[@DD151]

@@AnandTripathi-dd8go Haven't played Engage. It looks good though. I've watched a fair amount of gameplay content so I have an idea of who's good and who isn't but my opinion doesn't mean much

[@PseudoUematsu]

I think the problem is the clickbait thumbnails make far more extreme arguments than the video. He’s good!? He sucks!? No, he’s one of many mediocre units that can be used without too much added difficulty. Also, the 3 master seal limit in early Engage, where later promotion is just strictly worse unlike other games, severely limits unit selection despite the abundance of other tools.

[@206Sam]

Yeah I think the master seal limits but *especially* the level resetting on second seals hurts earlygame units more than anything. Makes me wish that Engage had a flat level cap of 40, and promos/reclass didnt effect leveling at all. It would make balancing the mid-game prepromotes better too, since they'd cap out on level sooner, while giving earlier units more time to grow while also not penalizing them for switching classes before promotion is available.

[@RobotGuy405]

I'm late to this but I agree. They wanted it to be more like a regular FE game but couldn't resist putting in the features that let's any unit be anything and the ability to gain infinite stats. I miss when units had defined roles and were set on that path.@@206Sam

[@user-mv2nn6rw2w]

Promoting at lvl 20, with few exceptions, typically loses you 0~0.5 of stats you care about compared to promoting at level 10. 5% stat growth over 10 level really is that insignificant. The only problem is that unpromoted units is weaker right now and thus less likely to get exp.

[@Hyu-n7d]

One thing about Engage is that 2 out of the 3 S tier units in the video, Chloe and Ivy, are sort of there because they use resources so well and not because they can get by without much resources. Basically all Engage and Fates(to some extent) units are built so that they require some form of investment and additional resources. Barring the few outliers like dancers Camila Kagetsu etc.

[@brianwinters2285]

Pretty much this. Chloe need you to give her a ring, an upgraded steel or feh lance and an engraving. One run I gave this setup to Alfred and he was one of my best units early game. Same thing with Ivy. She's need quiet a few resources to not be an ok unit. But as a person that is new to the series, (first was 3H) i've notice that the community values flying very highly. So units that has flying will get extra attention and resources just by being fliers.

[@206Sam]

Units that have flight get extra attention and resources because that flying utility cant really be replicated by others. For instance, if Pandreo could get on a wyvern with staves and tomes, Ivy wouldnt really fill a niche outside of having a bit more bulk. But Pandreo *cannot* fly and have tome access, since there's nothing for him to reclass into that allows for that, so Ivy by default is a good candidate to give speed resources to since its her main downside. Plus flier bonded shield makes her nearly invincible, so with a speed investment she can one-round a ton of enemies with little to no risk. If high magic with tomes and flight werent exclusive to her, you'd see others up in top tier along with her. Otherwise its only Hortensia, but she's super frail.

[@bhizzle64]

IMO resource use should be judged on a unit basis given how contested a resource is. Stuff like tonics that have extremely wide availability? Yeah factor that in all the time. But with 1/game resources that basically every unit wants, I can’t consider it more than a small benefit. Lyn got mentioned in the video, but for another example take corrin marriage in fates. The ability to grant any class in the game to any unit is extremely powerful, and some units get a lot out of it (most notably the servants due to their ability to gain high level skills early). However it often feels like people assume corrin will marry Jakob during tierinf discussions of fates. Jakob with corrin marriage is definitely good, but it’s nowhere near the only option for corrin marriage, and I don’t think it should be the only one considered.

[@chemguyleland]

It's not about making the best unit. It's about making the best team.

[@Or_ange]

Engage discussion in a nutshell is people going "any unit can be good if you invest in them" and then people calling you stupid for investing in an off-meta unit "Look, I made this unit particularly good using these resources that play to this unit's strengths!" "Yeah, well why didn't you just use Chloe/Kagetsu/Panette/Pandreo/Ivy. They do the same thing better.." Or "You used X resources so that means that resource is better than the unit" Like shit man, that's not the point I've played through this game so often I know what does or does not work well, I *could* run meta builds all the time but that's boring. Let me try something different.

[@gameboyn64]

I think the biggest pitfall people have when evaluating units is only looking at how a unit functions in a maximum efficiency setting. I don't think many of them realize that in a maximum efficiency setting, 2/3rds of the cast go straight to d or f tier

[@Or_ange]

@@gameboyn64 If an LTC is your definition of max efficiency the current meta of Engage is all wrong anyways. *Citrinne with Lyn as a sniper* is meta since she has stupid high base magic + Growth and with certain skills she can one round most bosses' HP bars from a huge distance with Radient bow Astra storm. Meanwhile, Ivy gets Celica as the flying bonus for Celica's warp rag grants more range, allowing her to warp in and take out more health bars. Currently most people would tell you that Citrinne with Lyn is a huge waste of Lyn's potential but it's clearly not.

[@supervolcanobladerharris131]

@@Or_ange Real problem is how units are rated. I'm not quite sure what is effecient, but I do know that not everything in runs like LTCs can be far from perfect when it comes to strategies as sometimes it takes crit rigging to save a turn which doesn't make much sense. That's what confuses me as my problem with Etie is that she needs 6 levels of exp to compete with Alcryst still gets beaten by him and you need a master seal and a second seal to get to warrior which makes them look the same if they are in the same class. Citrinne sniper I don't quite see working normally, but I suppose in an LTC the 20 range magic attack beats everything, but I still have to see it for myself.

[@ltranc]

"All your bases are belong to us" - FE7 Marcus

[@gameboyn64]

One of the funniest ones was that x unit needs exp to be good long term therefore bad like we are playing zero percent growths or something.

[@leargamma4912]

Zero percent growths shouldn't be a major indicator of unit preformance, because in order for that to happen, you need to mod or hack the game. And that isn't fair for every player

[@CyclonSilver]

I relate to the frustration on a pretty deep level. Can't really win against the TL;DR mentality. The middle ground of one laying their complex arguments down properly while still retaining the receivers' complete unbiased attention is extremely narrow a lot of the time, let alone for thousands of people at once in your case. At this point I've chosen to not worry about it too much. I still try, but when it fails, I just move on, better luck next time, etc.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

It is, however, your duty to find the smol-est girl on the team you are using, and make her eat ALL the statue fragments/body rings.

[@reid5179]

What about the alternative of taking someone enormous like Barth and giving him the body ring so has 20 Con

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

@@reid5179 Nah. Take someone like Lute, for example. If you give her two, you have more than DOUBLED her weight. It's about relative increase on the path of the swole and thicc. Increasing from 16 to 18 is impressive in its own way, but it isn't a change of lifestyle and perspective the same way that increasing a 3 to 5 is.

[@calregretsthis]

Mekkah unleashing his rage on people that comment on videos despite clearly not watching it

[@gameboyn64]

Some of the comments literally said "I'm not watching the video but..." or "haven't watched the video yet but..." which was kind of funny.

[@hihigocat]

@@gameboyn64 they so proud of being wrong

[@NinjaAO42]

I mean its hard not to favour units in Thracia when they start to get Mov +1

[@declanm810]

I found this video pretty late, so you probably won’t see this but I’m going to type it anyway. I’m definitely one of those people that thought the Etie vs Alcryst video seemed a little biased when watching it. This video definitely did clear that up for me though - I can see where you’re coming from resource spending, and I think if it was just an Etie propaganda video it would have been received way differently. I think the “hand-wavy” comment came around from spending a lot of time discussing the pros of Etie and ways to fix her, but less time on the potential options for Alcryst. Calling the 11 STR difference “hilarious” when Luna proc did the exact same damage on average was clearly meant to be “that’s a pretty funny coincidence” but instead came across as “lol Alcryst laughably bad.” Combined with the big issues mainly being forgetting about Alcryst’s personal, talking about speed vs strength fixing, and the discussion of engravings made the video feel more like a hit piece than a comparison. Acknowledging that you forgot his personal in retrospect does a lot, but at the time it came across more like a purposeful “lets shit on Alcryst to make Etie look better” even though I could tell that wasn’t how it was intended. As to those points: 1) Alcryst’s personal triggers almost every turn means it takes longer for Etie to actually overtake him, so he’s at least competitive for longer. It also means instead of an 11 dmg, there’s an 8 point difference. 2) I think the main problem was that you never really said *why* STR fixing was worse. You said “there’s no emblem like Lyn for strength” but that doesn’t actually address the possibility. Even if you just said “you have to inherit skills, and the +STR skills cost way more SP than +SPD”/“there’s no Bow Power skill to help with damage” etc it would have really helped at least 3) You say “why would we bother comparing units without engravings?” which is a very fair point, but your engraving discussion focussed around fixing Etie’s poor Hit rate using the Lyn engraving which is also -3 Mt (though you did mention Eirika at the end too) and didn’t address that because Alcryst’s Hit is much higher (80% on the fastest enemies when you add the DEX bonus from his emblem), he can use entirely different engravings which provide Hit AND Mt (notably Marth or Leif). That would make the Mt difference between the two just +4 for Etie now. Lastly, you never really discussed emblems, because you say both really desire Lyn. I do agree, but I think Etie absolutely NEEDS Lyn while Alcryst can do alright inheriting Speedtaker and going with someone else. I’ve used both twice in maddening runs, and I actually really liked my Marth!Alcryst that I used in the same run as Lyn!Etie. He provides +4 SPD (so only 1 less than Lyn) while providing +3 STR. This would mean Etie would only have +1 Mt per hit without Luna compared to him with your Lyn engrave build (mine had +4 because I gave Etie Eirika engrave instead), while also having a 60%+ chance to proc Luna at least once

[@Pyrospriter042]

I would honestly love a longer version of this discussion. I think it's a pretty important shift as far as meta discussion goes with FE and it gives the ability to start bringing some objectivety to something that I think people tend to associate with subjectivity when talking about stat boosters. Great video though still Mekkah!

[@MrCactuar13]

I think what gets lost in the discussion is that when you assume an argument for the sake of discussion, people take that argument literally instead of hypothetically. Like if X unit is using resource Y, they are capable of doing Z. Not that anyone is necessarily advocating doing so, but this cost-benefit analysis needs to be done for the sake of understanding how resources are best spent in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately people just get too hyperfocused on the debate at hand they forget the purpose of the conversation.

[@nahte123456]

One part of the discussion I think makes it hard is the concept of a threshold. Like you mentioned Haar, his strength is past where it needs to be but his speed really isn't without help. But most people aren't going to know what threshold equates to what game and what chapter. So it's harder to discuss what is superfluous, what pushes that edge. And what's a lost cause.

[@zengamer321]

You should give resources to the units you deploy. You're not gonna deploy every unit. That means it makes more sense to judge units while considering the availability of resources because that's realistic even if they are otherwise low tier units. Assuming no unit gets any resource is like saying "how good would all these units be if i never used any of them" which is like not real.

[@GunnGuardian]

To be fair, I feel like more units want the one Lyn ring and there are back-up rings if a unit can't get the best physical ring for them. Then again, you could just inherit Speedtaker and have a lot of Lyn's benefits.

[@zer0vision891]

There's also ways to mitigate needing the Lyn ring. Like you said, Speedtaker can help. But you also have Lucina and Byleth for Spd boosting emblems, later you get Sigurd and Leif for boosting Bld; Spd+3 and Bld+3 inherits for pretty cheap SP costs; Halberdiers don't need Speed so a reclass can eliminate Speed competition; up to 4 Speedwings (1.1.0 reward, Leif paralogue, chapter 18, chapter 22); the list goes on and on. This isn't even considering DLC, where Starsphere just ignores all semblance of game balance, Rally, Quick Riposte, and more. Just because one unit wants Lyn doesn't mean all other units that need speed are SOL, they just need to use other resources.

[@DoTtA1123]

Part of the reason good units are good are because they don't require you to plan your entire run around them/give resources that fix their deficiencies that other units don't have. Good units are flexible. I could give Kagetsu Lyn, or I could give him Roy (Or Leif, or Sigurd, etc.) - and he would still be good with any of them. I think if your effectiveness is very much determined by specific resource(s), you aren't necessarily as intuitive to use and therefore make the game harder to play/understand. The point of a tier list is to identify which units make the game the easiest.

[@b-d9099]

I don't think tier lists ever considered ease of use nearly as much as you're thinking. A character in a fighting game can still be the best regardless of how hard it is to master just like how Corrin is likely the best unit in fates because of class and stat flexibility letting them be a really broken build like a +mag malig knight, for ecample. Kagetsu himself is only really your best physical unit outside of his base class, and Ivy, which was more contentious only holds up with speed stacking, doesn't make them any worse. To give some perspective, I played engage on maddening in my first playthrough and didn't realize how good Kagetsu was,but immediately figured Ivy would be broken if I invested in her and gave her dire thunder, then later on Lyn since she was my best possible user of her.

[@leargamma4912]

I think tier lists are pointless, simply because the game allows anyone to be used in any way, due to recources being available to anyone. Plus, what is going to happen if you use a unit you like over a unit that is better? The game will softlock you? You can't unlock a super secret gameplay feature? No. There's just no reason for it to be there apart from efficiency. FE 12 was the only game in the series to reward efficient play, good units, and assesment/distribution of tools and recources. Because it rewards players who are better at that specific game. With lower difficulty levels and no incentives to be better at the game, there is no reason for a tier list, or an argument against medeocre units to exist. It's all moot. The game doesn't even reward players outside of standard objectives with LTC's, which is what made turn based gaiden chapters so good. Now you want to end the chapter because the game gives you ways to do it. Not because it benefits the player's experience.

[@red5t653]

A few other people brought this up, but a lot of the relevant debate around Alcryst vs Etie comes from the fact Etie actually does have legitimate trouble with oneshotting even fliers unless it's a steel bow for... basically all of the early game, which comes with a whole host of problems (namely, accuracy, which admittedly a Sigurd engrave would fix but) Because the best way to handle fliers (AKA the typical niche of an archer) is through magic anyway, because the Radiant Bow is broken, what ends up happening is you have a kinda reasonable Str unit with no Spd vs a slightly more mediocre Str unit with at least somewhat tolerable Spd, both of which tend to not have much of an enemy phase (in Etie's case, because she has no defenses, and in Alcryst's case, because he's an archer) Etie in particular DEMANDS Lyn. Like, it's not a question, if you want to make her function, she DEMANDS Lyn. No other Emblem can compensate for her abysmal base Spd, and considering units like Panette and Amber, who hit even harder, also have to resort to Lyn, Lyn is HYPER competitive. Comparatively, Alcryst tends to not need Lyn so much as he needs, say, Spd +3, a skill he can inherit with his base SP from Lyn while still using an entirely separate Emblem, like Eirika or Roy. He can even also hop into Warrior just like Etie and patch up his inherit Str problem, which also simultaneously gives him an actual enemy phase because he does have real bulk where Etie simply does not. This is the main issue people took with your Etie vs Alcryst debate, I imagine, because in the context of Engage, EMBLEMS are the limited resources. Because there is only one of each Emblem, and no Emblems have perfect availability by design. TL;DR: Alcryst uses only his own personal base resources and common tools like Spd tonics and meals to approach a tolerable Spd threshold (which you yourself brought up as being something you can assume anyone can get) while Etie must compete with, like, every other slow, hard-hitting unit in the game to have access to Lyn, the most speedstacky of all the Speedstacker Emblems.

[@IschmarVI]

Arguments like this show why one-dimensional tierlists are pretty much pointless in fire emblem. Yes, some characters are better than other (e.g. Haar is inarguably the best unit in FE10), but besides that, context, team-structure and, especially, playstyle play a significant role as well.

[@boredomkiller99]

There is also the issue that....neither really are optimal long term picks so then you just end up using both till you get past chp 11 because they are your only archers and fliers are common enough to warrant deploying both till you bench them once you get other bow users. In this context Etie would be equal or slightly higher in value Edit: Also I heard the argument it doesn't even makr sense to Compare the two long term because in general Etie is more competing with high strength characters like Amber and Panette Meanwhile Alycryst really is nothing special without his personal class being just decent outside of that so you are better using him im his personal for covert classing to use the long range astra storm to aggro bosses and other such utility while occasionally doing extra damage with Luna or a crit build

[@Klaire_Fluffle]

I once uploaded a (very bad) Path of Radiance tier list video, but the one point i stand by is that you can't assume anyone can be good with BEXP. You get a lot of it, but it's still a limited resource - I put units like Nephenee very low because they need BEXP to thrive compared to somone like Marcia, who uses it way better, and many disagreed.

[@lanceareadbhar]

Yeah, I never got the impression that you were saying that Alfred and Clanne were amazing, but that were much better than people were saying they were. I'm doing a run now with DLC giving every arena and non-magic statbooster to Vander. To I'm sure no one's surprise, he's really good and has no problem contributing to late game maps with his 34 strength and 42 speed as an Axe Paladin with an addional 8 speed available via dancing, rallies, and speedtaker available since he has the Lyn ring. I would never recommend this to anyone, but I did it to disprove to myself the arguments that he was unusable with some going so far to say that he should get no combat at all even though he is clearly the best at setting up kills in the early game.

[@shury4260]

One thing I think that should have been in this video is a little bit of talk about optimal army size, engage keeps giving you amazing out the box units that are immediately useful so you're usually heavily using everyone in your deployment slots, while fe4 gives you infinite deployment slots and you're better off using about 4 of them and juggernauting them to high hell, same thing with awakening where you're probably going to want just one robin and as your endgame army so why would anyone else get resources when robin can and should just enemy phase entire maps with little to no risk? The dicotomy between enemy phase games and player phase games is something that I think could probably get its own video

[@aclashoffireandice4084]

My problem with Etie is kinda like your and dondon's problem with Ryan in New Mystery: she was more useful chipping so other units could kill without taking a counter, which really hindered her experience gain. She wasn't even level 10 when I dropped her after C8, even though she also had easy kills from early fliers. It's kind of upsetting, because I really wanted to use her, but Maddening was too restrictive for me to do it. 😞 And for the record, the "so much faster" comment about Alcryst was, in retrospect, more based on my early-on experience, when there's fewer ways to stack Spd and every point really counts. Alcryst's Spd lead over Etie assuming equal levels starts at around 3, iirc, and it pretty much stays that way the whole way due to Warrior giving Etie a bigger boost than Tireur. I agree with basically everything you've said in this video and the previous ones, but Etie over Alcryst is something I just don't see...

[@lioprio1984]

Amelia is good in general

[@GreyWandererXD]

This video captures the frustrations of discussing more modern Fire Emblem with veteran players that treat the games like there is an extreme lack of resources (Before Sacred Stones). Hoarding itself makes those resources useless and quite simply a baffling strategy in the first place. I stopped commenting a long time ago because discussion eventually went to the LTC route or romanticizing units that are adherently good. I have not watched this channel in a while until the propaganda videos came out and thoroughly enjoyed the extreme amount of things you can do with a unit that is not the greatest. It inspired me to play more with these units and experiment with strategies rather than benching them soon as I got the objectively better character. Yes, they are better however I enjoy utilizing strategy rather than just employ the unit with the best base stats and growths. I really enjoy the direction you are going, Mekkah!

[@AllBeganwithBBS]

I understood everything, and now I see that Donnel is in fact the best Fire Emblem character.

[@samkeiser9776]

So, the nuance is that a character using a resource should really just be considered something they can do, rather than be considered a detractor from their performance. A unit isn't worse for wanting to use a resource they can use.

[@joho4430]

My biggest issue with etie has always just been her bld. She is tiny, and it feels bad when she loses so much from higher mt weapons

[@gameboyn64]

Well if etie reclasses to warrior she jumps to 8 bld. If you give her a +3 silver bow, she is only weight down by 1. By the early mid game or so she shouldn't be weighted down at all by a +3 silver bow.

[@lanceknightmare]

In Awakening you can sort of put your units into three categories. Let's say as an example you need 29 speed, 40 attacks to double because it is late game. You have three units which have (47 attack, 31 speed), (37 attack, 27 speed), and (29 attack, 26 speed). In this case you have the third character which requires a bunch of resources to get back to where you need them to be. If you give them those resources, I find the unit still struggles to keep up. Let's say you give the unit a forged weapon, tonics, and one or two permanent stat up items. If the unit is someone like Fredrick, their speed will still fall off due to speed growths without over grinding. This problem is also sometimes referred to as having to babysit a character.

[@blankblank6214]

The only optimally choice for expensive resources is favorites

[@forte4450]

Man I love when you make videos like this

[@majespectorkuro8630]

Okay but the Etie video, her argument /was/ very bad. It could’ve flipped very easily to make the same argument in defense of Alcryst. Both of the units are or bad because I think archers are just bad in engage. Alcryst has bad strength but great speed, so just give him lunar bracer, and attack boosting skills and now he too is one rounding the same way Etie is. My problem with the video was not “but I like Alcryst!!!!” It was how sure of themselves they were, and how demeaning they talked about it when their argument was just incredibly moot.

[@NA-jd6wy]

Imma be honest. Scepti is just not convincing at all and wrong 95% of the time.

[@gameboyn64]

Alcryst speed is quite middling. He is very likely to still require speed boosts to double consistently. Considering lunar brace is fine if you are planning to play with the well. These discussions typically don't as the well is functionally a ng+.

[@Mekkkah]

no because Alcryst's speed advantage is much less than Etie's strength advantage

[@AnandTripathi-dd8go]

@@Mekkkah 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Alcryst has 1 more base strength without even factoring in his personal skill. Also, 6 speed, 2 build at Lvl 10/-- >>> 9-12 strength at Lvl 10/20 . The most pathetic part is, Alcryst even cancels the Strength gap with Luna, which he can over 32% of the time even if he doesn't double , so even in the absolute best comparison, Alcryst is better 33% of the time. Using 10/20 level cap stats in your arguments is ludicrous anyways, why don't we start talking about level capped comparisons between Gordin and Jeorge, or Rolf and Shinon while we're at it? How about Sue VS Shin if you want a similar level gap? Using Etie's 10/20 stats to compare her favourably to Alcryst is not far removed from the Nino VS Pent comparisons , what happened to bases>growths ?

[@hawkeye611]

@@AnandTripathi-dd8go Alcryst's growths are overall far better than Etie's. The 10/20 comparison favours him far more than it does Etie who gets only +2 str out of the comparison. His bases are propped up by his base class, making him look a lot better than they actually are. Once Etie becomes a Warrior, she barely is weighed down by a basic silver bow, causing her speed gap to shrink and her strength gap to widen massively. If Alcryst makes the same change to warrior, he'll be a little faster, and bulkier, but not in a way that makes a meaningful difference, while the strength gap will constantly come up.

[@Origin132]

I think in the Alcryst vs Etie conversation its about the Aspect most people talk about in this game when it comes to rating units, strength vs speed fixing. What threshold needs to be reached? How quickly can you reach it? Who else demands the resource? What access do you have to said resource? Like it was said in the original Video, strictly speaking for emblems, there is no Emblem that fixes strength like lyn fixes speed. But i guess thats the interesting part about engage (Modern Fire Emblem in general) there are soo many diffrent ways to evaluate units relative to the Resources you have access to.

[@jakeparkinson8929]

forde is the only good unit.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Just think. If Forde got just one of every stat booster, he would no longer be just short of anything. He would be great at everything

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

12:19 Mekkah still mad i don't like Etie...

[@half-faust]

I normally just go down the route of finding the most optimal way to use my favourite characters

[@Anti-i25]

I found your channel today and I'm already loving the vids. Can you point me to the video where you talk about the 11:20 tierlist? I would like to hear your opinions about Anna and Chloe in particular, since I've only had good experiences with Anna but never really used Chloe.

[@Mekkkah]

it's not really much of a tier list discussed in depth, it's from the propaganda vids discussed in this vid

[@SuperEljafru]

if you’re loving all these discussion videos about engage, then i could only reccomend you check out Zoran as well. he mostly does demonstration videos that show firsthand some of the strats pulled off by characters in these vids. recently he did a set of streams focusing on optimizing engage’s earlygame, with some of the earlier chapters edited down to a more watchable state

[@Anti-i25]

@@SuperEljafru I will definitely check him out!

[@jeff-mv5up]

inui being a meme is such a good bit

[@Noobieedu]

🗡️

[@SniperYanda]

Nah, I still stick by the Etie vs Alcryst video being biased because the entire thing was exploring what Etie was capable of with specific emblems and engravings vs Alcryst with zero resources or the same resources. You're including a blanket statement on the ease of fixing spd vs fixing mt, but then the both of you agreed it's just as easy to fix the other in the Clanne video when you're using different resources (forges, engravings, other emblems, skills, etc). I was saying that Alcryst wasn't considered to have any of the different resources that address his issues that are completely different from Etie's, and that the opportunity cost in fixing them is a lot less steep. If he can do well with any of Roy, Marth, Sigurd, Eirika, Lucina, that does give him a lot more flexibility to do well in a team than someone who needs Lyn, one of the most wanted emblems by other units.

[@ShadowCero]

Well when it comes to resources though, when does it get to the point where you assume a resource has to go into a character? Like RD has Jill get all the DB resources and that's "optimal" play in that case then should the rest of the characters only be judged on what the can do without said resources if it's the best and path of least resistance to always dump in Jill. Like in Engage for Etie vs Alcryst, should it not be assumed that the best Emblems and Engraves are going to the strongest units in Ivy, Kagetsu, etc and thus those two should be judged by the remaining resources available such as making use of Leif or Eirika or whatever (just spitballing). Like assuming "optimal"/"efficient" play here means that these units should never see these resources once better units are available thus even considering their use of the resource past that point kind of breaks the assumption of the tier list.

[@shannonjones8877]

Absolutely not. There's no guarantee that units such as Ivy and Kagetsu are even being used in a run, so why would the default assumption be that "better" units are hogging resources?

[@ShadowCero]

@@shannonjones8877 If we are going under the assumption of "efficiency" or some degree of optimal then the best units must be used. The best units and best strategies are the most efficient/optimal and if you don't engage with that then you are breaking the base assumption of "efficient" play.

[@noukan42]

​@@shannonjones8877the problem here is consistency. Edward is a great unit in RD if you give him some, not even all, of the resources you give Jill. But people assume you do not and so down in yhe lower tiers he go. So either the comunity change how units like Edwards are discussed, or they discuss Engage units the same way they discuss Edward.

[@boredomkiller99]

Also Jill isn't even defacto optimally anymore. My understanding is some people started using Zihark,s combst is much better at base allowing him to snow ball faster and easier. Fire emblem is always evolving

[@brianwinters2285]

Thanks for this. I'm going to check out your pitfall series after this. Lol

[@MayorofHopeville]

Ok the pitfall at the end summed it all up.

[@nodot17]

What do mean my boucheron isn't valid cause I gave him an energy drop Lies and slander

[@brandoncrafton804]

Garcia and other high hp units make great users of a Draco shield.

[@AkaiAzul]

As some one who trained both Lyre and Ranulf in Radiant Dawn during the same playthrough, favoritism can be quite fun, but only if the effort put in creates more fun Training these two was hard, and, well for Ranulf it was worth the effort, loved seeing blue kitty going aroing murdering everything. For Lyre, i mean, yes it was fun, but then i ended up constantly comparing her to blue kitty, and that hurt, knowing it's a lot ofeffort put in for a pretty face that falls short very, very often.

[@duplicitous0169]

I think it’s more an issue of opportunity cost. I could let Etie use Lyn to make her competent, or I could let Ivy use Lyn and break the game. I could let Etie have a Lyn engrave on a bow to fix her accuracy, or I could make a Lyn engraved Killer Axe to make Kagetsu, Panette, or Merrin into a more efficient boss killer for Warp skipping. Because of the opportunity cost, no efficient player would ever give Etie resources. And if Etie doesn’t get resources, she’s a liability in the early game because she has no enemy phase. She can’t even help chip down bosses because a lot of them one round her (lol chapter 5 and 6 hand axes).

[@Mekkkah]

That's why Etie is worse than Ivy and most units. But it doesn't make her worse than Alcryst, whose best Emblem is also Lyn, and still fails to meet a lot of doubling tresholds without her because he's not much faster.

[@AnandTripathi-dd8go]

@@Mekkkah Why does Lyn being the best emblem for both even matter though? Both units just want Speedtaker and another skill inherited at a negligible Bond Fragment cost to fix their mediocre offense. Also, wth do you mean he's not much faster without Lyn , he's got +6 base speed , +2 base build and 10% higher base speed growth lol🤣. There's no point giving Lyn to mediocre units like Etie/Alcryst , and even if you did then Lyn's Covert Astra Storm bonus would be better used on Alcryst, not to mention the other things that Etie needs to even stand on equal ground , let alone overtake Alcryst (experience in earlygame to reach promotion, an emblem earlygame to gain SP , axe proficiency , an additional Second Seal, experience in lategame since her strength gap isn't enough to cover for Get Behind Me + Luna until many levels promoted , fixing her horrible accuracy, her build deficit even after promoting to Warrior and so much more I'm forgetting)

[@DatMenno]

@@AnandTripathi-dd8go okay this is 2 weeks old but you could have just watched the alcryst vs etie video okay so Alcryst bases and level really dont matter, in early game theyre mostly there for chip and oneshotting flyers which both of them can do and etie even earlier if you want to count that. But if we're talking long term thats a different discussion. Neither of them would get one of the first master seals there are much better contestants for that so you would probably get them after chapter 11 which also opens up second seals pretty easy and until this point alcryst only really performs slightly better at the thing they should so (which is chipping units and oneshotting flyers, alcryst doesnt have enough speed to reliably double units) Also at this point will your etie would not be as behind on levels, Sure maybe alcryst will be level 12/13 but etie should be around 10 when master seals are more open which is arguably better because she can get 2/3 more levels with warrior growths (even if thats a really small thing) so at this point etie needs just one second seal more on ressources, which depending on the units u are using, is not that much to spare and getting into warrior is piss easy, axe proficiency is like 300 bond fragments when you have leif which is literally nothing lol At this point things change drastically i calculated with a 12/1 alcryst and a 10/1 etie on warrior (so she even has a lower internal level) She has around +7 str, -4 spd and +1 bld compared to alcryst So with a Silver Bow that speed diffenrence is not as big anymore (3 less than alcryst) so even without using Lyn, she is not that much behind on alcryst AS and her internal level is lower (doesnt mean much cause exp formula will get her up faster) We can also continue leveling them 10/10 alcryst (giving him the 2 level ups with better growhs Vs 10 archer 10 warrior etie She will have +9 str, -3 spd and +1 bld (9) She loses 1 spd to a silver bow while alcryst still loses 2 (8 bld) This will go exponantionally higher She will always be around 3 points of spd below alcryst (even at 10/20, he will be around 4+ higher later) And her str well be 10+ above his, which is A LOT and neccessary cause defense does scale up alot as well And this is all without talking about Lyn Now i could get into the math why even his personal is not as good as her str (even without taking his 20-30-40ish% chance into account) but i really dont want to right now

[@AnandTripathi-dd8go]

@@DatMenno I did watch the Etie vs Alcryst video thoroughly. I respectfully disagree with the video. I even have a super long comment posted under that video where I go further in depth although it has a few minor mistakes in it. Anyway, you are severely underestimating the value of +3 speed. If Alcryst can double an enemy where Etie cannot , even a deficit of 10 strength can easily be made up, especially because 2 Luna chances is >50% chance to proc once atleast. In fact, provided Alcryst deals over 10 damage to an enemy, doubling is strictly superior even without Luna. It also means that Etie needs an extra two stacks of Speedtaker over Alcryst to double any given medium fast enemy. Not to mention the speed gap is actually even higher initially while the strength gap takes 30 levels to reach that high. Get Behind Me! keeps Alcryst's strength on par until Etie's promotion at least, which would be around midgame and ideally where you'd drop those units for Fogado. If anything, short term analysis is much better for Alcryst than for Etie The second thing is that Etie is horrible at one-shotting fliers contrary to what you have said. In her join chapter she barely kills them , and then she cannot one-shot fliers even in the next chapter. In fact, she is 3 points of damage off, so she needs Alear next to her. Once Alcryst arrives, he comfortably one shots everything in Ch 8/9 with a Steel Bow at over 85 Hit, while Etie has serious accuracy issues with the Steel Bow and Longbow and cannot hope to one shot with Iron. As for the resources that Etie needs and Alcryst doesn't , they may be fairly minor in the grand scheme of things but it still IS a disadvantage for Etie. In a game where you can make Anna and Bunet viable you can make anyone viable but when we are discussing units this low on the tier list, each advantage counts. That extra second seal that Alcryst is saving can help you reclass a character that can actually do something with the reclass, like Pannette or ironically, Fogado. Also, Alcryst has extra points for being a Covert unit and thus is a much better user of Lyn if you really wanted to put Lyn onto him Lastly, and I'd just like to mention this and not use this as any objective proof, there is a reason half the comments and Mekkah himself are talking about Etie VS Alcryst on this video when its actually about favouritism with resources. Clearly it is the majority's opinion that Alcryst>Etie and that the argument used in the previous video and this one is biased towards Etie, giving her favouritism to match up to Alcryst, hence why he had to defend his argument in this video. Several other FEtubers and FE Engage fans in general also believe Alcryst>Etie albeit in the same tier, which is why Mekkah's opinion is a hot take. I myself believe that Alcryst is better and more fun to use, but if you believe that Etie has better unit feel or is a better unit, feel free to use her.

[@boredomkiller99]

​​@@AnandTripathi-dd8goMy hot take is that it really doesn't make sense to compare them in a binary way. Neither are being used long term in optimal play. Starters Alycryst speed advantage mostly comes from his personal class as his slight speed growth advantage isn't that much higher and his base speed and build is only slightly better with the rest coming drom his personal class not having bottom tier stats. If you have both go warrior Aycryst will hit doubling thresholds slightly easier but both evenrually hit them with investament and in situations that Etie doubles she will hit harder. The thing is that you really aren't using Alycryst as a Warrior long term because he unlike Etie who needs to get out sniper ASAP he has options. Mainly that he can leverage his covert typing while not having dog s*** class bases to use super lomg range Astra storm to Aggro annoying enemies. Luna is a nice bonus but not really reliable. In reality Etie is competing with Amber and Panette who have even higher strength, better personals and bulk while Etie has sliver bows as a warrior...whoopie. Lastly supports do matter to a degree so that can also factor what flunkies you promote to main units

[@isuckatgaming1873]

Newer fe games are really just built around the existence of many resources, and the management of it. I mean, just look at three houses - every action costs time as a resource. On another note, I had been avoiding lots of engage content, as I hadn't bought the game yet and though I don't care it I get spoiled, I didn't want my opinion onthe game to be swayed before taking the time to learn and understand it myself, and as such, I have yet to watch the videos you've made on characters (got the game last week). Learning how the emblems worked and boosted characters was interesting, especially for Lyn - initially I just had her on Chloe, but I realized that I didn't care for her attributes, weapons and attacks on her, by just the skills like alacrity and such. I ended up putting it on pannette against what I thought was my better judgment, as I thought that using the emblem to patch up an awful speed would be worse than giving it to someone just short on speed, like with the speedwing examples - but I was pleased to find out that woth how the resource works incredibly for pannette, giving her massive damage on astra storm and the speed she needs not just offensively, but also defensively, as she no longer gets doubled by many enemies allowing her to make use of her large health pool. In essence, what in trying to say is that the synergy between units and resources in newer fe games has become more complex, and that we have access to enough resources to dedicate one or two to a single character, like etie or pannette.

[@kylegrefe4399]

Jokes on you, the real metric for what makes a unit good is how much I like their voice, me specifically, no one else. That's the real reason Yunaka is the best unit in the game, and why Berkut is the best FE character period.

[@leargamma4912]

I mean the games never punish you for using a less optimal/efficient team. If it did, tiers would make sense. The games are workable enough as it is to use whoever you want.

[@drowzypollinator640]

I think the biggest driver for bad FE arguments are differing assumptions of the question that's being asked. Any tier list, unit analysis, or play through decision comes with a question or challenge that must be answered or solved. That question varies from tier list to tier list and play through to play through, but many people assume that their question is the one that someone else is attempting to answer. Fire emblem has many facets and this many questions. Examples: Which unit has the highest stats compared to other units? Which unit most trivializes a playthough of the game? Which unit most reliably prevents my other units from dying? Which unit can clear a map with the lowest turns? Which unit can solo the game? How good could this unit be with full resource usage? Minimal resource usage? How good is this unit for a blind playthough? Can this unit provide value through rescue? Support? Pair up? Rally? Healing? Staves? Reliable chip? Damage reduction or addition through adjacency skills? Recruiting other units? CONVOY?! Is deploying this unit a liability? How available is this unit? Generally, the goal is to beat the game, and many (almost any) units provide the capability to do so or support the ability to do so. But specifically, the above questions/assumptions (and many more) have to be established by both parties before you can have a meaningful discussion. Mekkah is usually pretty good at establishing the criteria. :)

[@Aeddy35]

I think a big part of the problem is that people just look how a unit performs at the start with zero investment, even if that investment has basically no opportunity cost. An example you guys mentioned would be Alcryst using the Steel Bow to one-shot fliers, when Etie does the same. I remember seeing people trashing Ivy because her low dex and luck but both of these these are fixed immediately with a Byleth engraving. Nobody else benefits more from additional dodge, and hit can be buffed with other engravings. Not to mention Ivy is much better than anyone else who needs dodge. Also bonded shield.

[@dryzalizer]

Bit of a weird video from you this time Mekkah, don't you know that making videos responding to cesspool YT comments is a pitfall? Some good points early, but then it took a turn into a strange place. Still 5/7, would watch again though.

[@joelfisher3732]

Honestly, I don't understand why some people have a problem with this concept. In fact, there is a very good, very old example of this in FE4: Seliph. He is the best user of every resource from gen 1 except for like 3 rings (pursuit, knight, and magic) and weapons he can't use (brave lance, brave axe, brave bow) and most people agree on this.

[@Rezkeshdadesh]

Alcryst has low enough self esteem as is, you don't need to say he's bad compared to Etie.

[@ness6099]

I’d advise anyone to play FE4 to get a good understanding of what getting and using resources should look like. Not only does it help you use resources (most are rings you CAN pass around but generally leave on a unit) as well as to compare demand and opportunity cost. Alec and Noish really embody this and are the coolest Christmas cavs to me for that reason. Generally, if you compare two Christmas cavs, if it’s hard to double and hit enemies, you go with the fast cav, and if you don’t struggle to double or hit, you use the strong cav (Lance is preferred over Alan in FE6 because it’s hard to double and high might weapons make up for his stats, Sain is generally preferred over Kent but unless you play Lyn mode usually Lowen’s growths and experience are okay enough to make him work, even has high defense utility, etc.) so where do these two cavs come into play? FE4 it’s generally easy to double for units (considering only gen 1, only chapter 4 and one wave of enemies in chapter 2 would it be above average to double those guys). The problem is, by the rules of the game only Alec can double. This means despite his mediocre bases and growths, and sharing with Noish a promotion that generally benefits a strong unit getting that last bit of skill and speed to be consistent, Noish will usually fail to kill. However, he’s still outstanding in raw strength, durability, and even has an ace up his sleeve with the combat skills Accost and Critical, which can have him win out a battle that should be impossible for him. For Noish, we have a unique resource in chapter 2; the pursuit ring. It comes for free for Arden, but generally Noish makes the best use of it (access to light weapons in swords, mounted, bulky enough to use it on enemy phase). Alec meanwhile is probably one of the better users of the Light Brand early on. Sure, Sigurd can go to town with it, but he’s already got a silver sword for close range, and at base and even with 10 extra levels at a 5% growth rate, Sigurd isn’t going to make much more use out of it than Alec. It has a slightly higher weight than most of the other swords, but Alec already doesn’t struggle to double. It has some unique benefits that Alec makes great use out of, those being +2 might over steel sword, 1-2 range to ward off enemies because they would rather fight someone who doesn’t counter, and the unique property of the light brand; casting Lightning at 2 range. Not only does light magic have an innate advantage over anima magic, Making him more durable against those enemies, but it even means that when enemies with a javelin do try and attack him that they won’t get weapon triangle over him! I disagree mostly with the sentiment of giving him the magic ring (it’s nice, but it’s not so powerful as to push him into one round thresholds at range on average, nor does he have the bulk strong enough to soften up an entire squad alone, so it’s gonna come into play mostly on player phase and in that case Alec can just hit them normally. Other units can make better use out of it; Deirdre it turns a lot of two/three round arena kills to one/two round ones, and by the time she’s done with the arena for good Erinys can come in and take it in the same chapter the bolt sword appears. Azel could really use the help as well, but he’s not as demanding). Sorry for a bad summary of Pitfalls 4, but it’s a great example of evaluating why certain units make better use out of certain tools.

[@mysmallnoman]

Everything you said is BS holy shit Alec with a stl sword can 2RKO Brigands while Noish will always 3RKO, both units also die in 3 hits so the def advantage is irrelevant, nevermind that accost and Critcial are extremely unreliable The light brand and the pursuit ring goes for Ethlyn because unlike Noish or anyone else her husband can give her money, she with her good base mag and a magic ring can 1RKO brigands and Knights at base and build kills on the light brand, then Lachesis does the same thing from ch3 onwards after she promotes, all so Seliph has broken 1-2 range in gen 2, and Ethlyn passes the pursuit ring to Leif because he's the 2nd best gen 2 unit Also no don't even give Alec a light brand + magic ring, it takes him until ch4 to promote and Ethlyn/Lachesis does his job better at base 2 chapters ago Also lol Deirdre sucks with magic ring for the sole reason that she has 5 mov and stops existing after ch2

[@ness6099]

@@mysmallnoman Worst takes NA. If you only want kills on the light brand, it doesn't matter if Ethlyn or Alec or Noish or Beowulf or anyone uses it, and it doesn't involve completely wasting a resource like the pursuit ring. Magic makes it better, but at 1 range light brand is just a beefier steel sword, and most enemies will attack Ethlyn at one range anyway. A lot of physical units will use it just as well as they would a steel sword, if not better, and help your strategy if you want Light Brand Seliph. Why are you giving Ethlyn the pursuit ring as inheritance? If you give her the bargain band, you can get Leif to be way more versatile and impactful early on. With the ~20-25k gold he gets from being on Thracia and a few thousand gold from inheritance, he can be warped back, buy the second brave sword and Paragon band, destroy the arena, and get down to the desert to clean up those too. He might even be able to afford the Pursuit ring at that point if it's user can part with it. Either way, pursuit is not being used to make Noish better for chapters 2 and 3 but instead Ethlyn, even if she's better than him you deprive your army of it completely in chapters 4 & 5 (&6, but only one unit there really cares about Pursuit), but I think this strategy deprives you of one of your best pairings and units; Forseti Arthur. If you give Pursuit ring to Noish, in chapter 5 at the desert he's worthless from then on basically so you can give pursuit to Lewyn who can then pass it to Arthur, meaning you got all the benefits out of it for Noish AND immediately get value out of it in gen 2, since pursuit lets Arthur one round with Elwind and save on Forseti early on. Getting Arthur promoted in Chapter 7 is just as valid as Leif. Both will be monsters who one round everything in their path, Arthur will most of the time be more consistent with his innate 1-2 range on his strongest attack stat and be more durable for the time being because of his obscene avoid stat, with some enemies not having any hit on him. Leif will probably be more consistent and relies on hard defenses instead of avoid so RNG will not force a reset, but Arthur will always have the offensive advantage, even while unpromoted. The only thing Leif really does better than him is the fact that he can use Rescue once promoted to save turns, but unless you do the Aideen pairing to get Rescue early then it doesn't matter if Leif promotes before the end of chapter 7 or if he promotes in chapter 8, or even the start of chapter 9. At least magic ring Ethlyn gets extra levels towards rank, some extra hp, magic and res for Seliph, and even more money for Sigurd when she leaves. IDK what Ethlyn does with it before Pursuit besides being a worse Midir. Hell, at least someone is getting value out of it before chapter 3 and she can sell it to Ethlyn even if you want to do that magic ring + pursuit strat in chapter 3. Don't call my arguments BS if you're gonna cap like that man...

[@mysmallnoman]

@@ness6099 1) the difference between Ethlyn and these other units is that Ethlyn ( and Lachesis ) Actually 1RKOes enemies at base with it while Alex and Noish can't even at 1 range lol, and it's not like Noish wouldn't want a pursuit ring 2) or why not have him IMMEDIATELY have the pursuit ring dummy ? So he can help with finn and Nanna and gain xp faster 3) you don't need the pursuit ring in ch4+5, the units who need it aren't that great ( Lewyn, Ardan, Noish, etc ) and Sigurd will kill most Enemies anyway also lol forseti Arthur 4) " because of his obscene avoid stat " lol imagine relying on dodging 5) " worse midir " Midir doesn't one round enemies until he gets the brave bow in ch4, meanwhile Ethlyn can as early as ch2 when she gets the magic ring + pursuit band, and she can do so AT BASE Also no, I'm going to call any argument that relies on Dodge tanking BS, because it is

[@ness6099]

@@mysmallnoman 1. Without the pursuit ring, she only does 25 damage with magic ring. She NEEDS it to do 50 and one-round. Even with all that, would she get more than 15 kills in those chapters? At that point just give the Light Brand to Sigurd if all you care about is kills on it. 2. I can say the same for Forseti Arthur. Also Finn and Leif probably one round armor knights without pursuit on Leif, especially with armor slayer, so I don't really see the need. 3. If you're not playing for rank or just for exp, then sure you can leave the units on the side and not give them those things they need to perform and just put 100 kills on the light brand and move on. If you want to make value out of everyone, why throw away a resource like the pursuit ring for 3 chapters? 4. Even with 0 luck, with 22 speed and 20 from Forseti he gets to 84 avoid. 84 avoid + 40 avoid from authority stars means WITHOUT bonus terrain, he is at 124 avoid. He'll also be pushing or at 70 hp at cap, he'll be fine taking a hit or two in a swarm of 10-15 units. Also probably the only unit with dodge against Ishtar, and invalidates the entire desert section in chapter 7. 5. As I've said many times, "as early as ch 2" is a HUGE exaggeration. You'll be done castle 2 and probably started castle 3 before Arden gets back with the pursuit ring. Castle 4 meanwhile has high move units with canter and a horse slayer boss, so you need to be REALLY cautious with her. What if someone else needs to get healed but Aideen and Lachesis can't safely get in range? That's a turn Ethlyn isn't killing something. If you really don't want to dodge tank with Arthur, just canto away... but 124 avoid on neutral terrain and more on ideal is not like relying on Lyn to dodge 2 out of 3 lance attacks, it's actually dependable!

[@mysmallnoman]

@@ness6099 (.........)

[@TheOmegaDragon]

So basically it's making a character that can hard carry the team vs making other characters more viable. I play however I want because it's my playthrough and I suggest people do the same. It would suck to cookie cut and play the game "optimally" because others try to gate keep and say I should play a specific way or you're doing it wrong. I'm down for taking suggestions if I'm struggling but, let me be me and only offer help if I ask for it. I'd rather not bother with arguments that result in a massive headache.

[@pheonixmmkc]

Idk who the guy in the thumbnail is, but at my workplace we have him plastered everywhere with text along the line of, "Is this who sent you that email? Think twice before you click that attachment."

[@gusbart5856]

oh the old thumbnail was so funny but this is good too

[@sohn7767]

7:26 killed me

[@politenonparticipant4859]

There's something very satisfying about taking a weak unit and putting effort into them to make them a worthwhile addition to your team. Fire Emblem is not a game in which you are greatly benefitted by building up the stats of your weaker units. There's a finite amount of experience and little benefit to building weak units up when there are stronger alternatives you're not giving those resources to. It's a consequence of the way FE games are designed, part of which is that max level characters are nigh-unstoppable tanks against all but bosses. Levels convey huge increases to battlefield performance so you can build the army you want to use, but always at the expense of not training some of your units. If the games made you field every unit you had , all units reached the same aptitude with enough experience, threw so many units against you that every spear was going to be put to use, and there were more than enough enemies to max out every character by the end of a playthrough, there might be tangible reward there to prioritize training the weak units... but that's not the case. It's only ever worthwhile in any of the games to figure out who has the best stats and weapon matchups to the opposing forces and then use them at every opportunity.

[@bigshower]

I miss low production mekkah

[@Silvalejandro10]

Reading the comments of the propaganda videos gave me an aneurysm... can't imagine what it was like as the creator 😅

[@azizabdul8914]

I dump all of my stat booster to Seth, Auron, Surt, Frog, and Minsc, because if the other units can't deal more than double digit damage in a single strike, then they're bad, simple as that

[@ultimaterecoil1136]

Another example Of different units getting different value out of the same resources is fates reclassing. Odin’s access to the samurai class to gain access to vantage is by far one of the strongest class dips for a skill in conquest. A few units can gain vantage through supporting odin but that’s an opportunity cost to give to another unit. The only opportunity cost for odin is a couple of heart seals. And it can be good to use multiple vantage mages especially in attack stance together. This is a very high value reclass just for access to vantage. Meanwhile beruka becoming a fighter isn’t exactly as valuable. Odin using 2 heart seals is significantly more valuable then beruka using one. However there’s admittedly a decent amount of solid heart seal users so one might wanna use leo as a vantage mage over odin since he can gain vantage from a friendship seal by being his best friend.

[@CaptainStraya]

I think a huge point of discussion with engage units comes down to how lyn and speedtaker are used. The problem is that you get lyn at the halfway point and units that can use lyn well sometimes fall off before you get her. If you have a unit that has multiple additional levels because they contributed better without lyn, they will often be better users of lyn by the time you get her.

[@bagu2769]

Mekkah: *talks for 12 minutes about resources* Me, a hoarder: cool bruh

[@Olimario34]

Nino is a good girl so she can have the speed wing as a treat

[@stormfallvalkyri8389]

While i still fundamentally disagree about etie vs alcryst this vid was rly good! Funny and informative.

[@thymol8301]

Can you do a video in depth about stats and how they work? Because from this video a lot of people maybe don't understand how the stats work and how to value them as they play the game/games.

[@Chaotixs11]

There's another pitfall that I think people fall into when it comes to talking about investing in units: comparing invested top tiers into uninvested low tiers. If you say "Invest in Panette! Vantage-Wrath lets her solo the game!" its taken as gospel. She's a top tier why shouldn't she get all the tools she needs to bring out her full power? If you say "Invest in Diamant! Starsphere and a hit-engrave lets him solo the game!" you're accused of favoritism. If they're a top tier: give them whatever they want no question. Anything other than top tier: give them nothing. Unfair comparisons like that cause community opinion to snowball, and suddenly "almost as good but not quite as good as Panette" tier unit Diamant, is in C or D tier in most tier lists. Do not ask me to expand on my Diamant builds, I will go on a long rant about it and waste both of our times. Tl;Dr: Tomahawk good for enemy phase, Diamant use Tomahawk well, his growths are all just short of where you want them to be, Starsphere makes them more than enough, hit engrave negates his low-dex-cap problem and there's no shortage of them, stop hyper fixating on Sol it's not that important.

[@hanzou1238]

When I compare 2 units I try to do it using units that require similar investment, like with Etie and Alcryst who both need heavy speed investment to be good, although then she wants investment to enhance her damage while Alcryst needs investment to deal damage.

[@waitingforwonderland6036]

I see Ced I give him Forseti, and all the rings

[@SweaterPuppys]

I think Haar is a great example on how you should use stat boosts, the case should be the same with Etie? if her speed is an issue you have a (somewhat) free +5 spd to patch it up with..if you want I’d just use Kagetsu

[@SleepyBrady]

Big advocate for Etie for the early Energy drop. It gives her more damage and same strength as base Amber while also being able to use it earlier. Once you get roy you can get strength + 1 or 2 and get even more damage. Not to mention it basically makes etie on par with amber and the two will perform the exact same. Now why not give it to Amber? Well he joins later so he can't use the energy drop until he joins and it allows Etie to oneshot fliers with the iron bow easier. Plush she gets much bigger longbow chip until chapter 9 where Amber joins. But Amber's join chapter sucks for Amber since he's so fucking slow and has no effective damage against fliers. So Etie gets alot better there. Plus if you gave her the Energy drop then there is no actual reason to use Amber in the same role as warrior etie since he doesn't get the silver bow. Still makes a good halberdier tho. Then Panette. She has the same strength as warrior panette at the same internal level. Now that is arguing on favor of Etie using the energy drop

[@shannonjones8877]

I love this. I'll have to keep this in mind next time i use Etie in a run.

[@Edgeperor]

That might be alright but like Chloe

[@dataida]

Maybe next chapter

[@professorannefaire7233]

Oh my gosh the ending line XD

[@Eskuero]

Using stat boosters is dumb favoritism, I prefer to spend 125 turns arena abusing in "Four-Fanged Offense"

[@DarrienGlasser]

Derp

[@GoonCommander]

Playing a FE game on a difficulty easy enough that you can find it challenging but fun and fair without using Boosters so that you can use them all on your favorite character and make them a trophy is the correct way to play :^)

[@TheChainOfGame]

The intro was hilarious lol

[@temetrex9324]

Honestly, I think resource distribution is a fun part of discovery regardless of fixed or random growths. People hate Lapis but she is a very fun dodge tank even as general does not get doubled unlike Louis but is Lapis a better General than Louis? Not getting doubled by magic is very nice. Its just fun at the end of the day. Why so serious :C

[@ZappBranniglenn]

Fire Emblem has always been a game about limited resources and how the player wants to spend them. But the amount of resources from game to game is different from another. I would argue FE3 Book 2, FE4 and Thracia all have far more resources and variables than GBA era. A FE7 speedwing is a more precious resource than two speed carrots in three houses. Also, you may want to hold off until late game since your slow units might gain stats for free on their future class changes. Just because modern fire emblem has more resources, doesn't mean that spending the resources has become simpler. So I can relate to the many playthroughs that just never end up making those tough decisions. People who play these games a lot have a duty to explain how they use their resources effectively rather than write off those decisions entirely. Because I fall into that trap too. Hey I'm curious. Is there any particular reason why this wasn't a Pitfalls episode? It's a good topic

[@SirVyre]

I've honestly always felt people too easily dismiss what a resource does for causing a unit to have better odds at getting the gains they need to be good / how the dynamics of specific maps can change if you make certain, let's say... underdog units, better. Best example that comes to mind is the early game speedwing in Path of Radiance or the Angelic Robe from Lyn Mode in FE7. As far as the speedwing goes, it has a lot of units early on that benefit from it, but only really a unit or two that it absolutely dramatically impacts in such a way that may change your entire tactical approach (Boyd, Oscar, or ?). As far as the Lyn Mode Robe goes, it changes effective durability, letting you select one of the many whisper thin units in Lyn mode and making them able to take more than one hit. I also think over the years that stat boosters effect on your army's performance in the long run are ignored. There's that temptation to hoard them for the final, hard boss. Much like how in Radiant Dawn people focus on Unit Caps vs. Ashera, those caps don't matter for the majority of the game. Saving a stat booster for the end boss, likewise, means you miss out on its utility for almost the entire game. The sooner you use them, the more you benefit, in other words. But there's also always a unit on which to use them, that provides some sort of optimal use, too. Short term "hoarding" may benefit you more than immediate use, but only if you know the exact benefits.

[@lanceknightmare]

One thing I have noticed about my own knowledge of Fire Emblem games. It requires some personal study on my part to understand the more detailed explanations of various tactics. For example, I did not understand all of what you were saying in your Echoes videos in the beginning. After I had watched your videos several times and had already finished three Nuzlocke doing my own research, I could understand where you were coming from. I still did not understand the thinking of low turn runs by other people with the exception of those levels I had personally tried to low turn.

[@zenronez1158]

Mekkah: Base level Benny can double master ninjas. Me sees the results - dies of laughter -

[@lagspike7763]

I think that the way engage is designed really lends itself more to this kind of problem. The fact that some resources are so widely available but some are super specific combined with what we believe to be true about fire emblem results in just this level of cognitive dissonance in calling Etie with her pathetic bases better than a unit with actual base stats.

[@mudkipmercenary3647]

Most of the time when I have an opinion with some form of hardcore evidence that I want to share with others, i find it better to not even say anything because of these nasty comments in social media. For me personally I usually just go with the units that I like the most based on personality first, then actual numbers later. I thought you and your friend did a pretty good job with the Etie vs Alcryst video when it came to facts about the two of them. I’ve even heard and seen some people actually give the lyn ring to neither of those two, or any bow based unit to begin with, when they’re playing the game. So I thought yinz had good accuracy when it came to that video, and I’d love to see more of these kinds of videos in the future. Just to help me understand the differences a bit more between tow of the same types of units. Maybe do one about Lapis next?

[@theboostedbaboon4586]

This makes sense. All fe units can be good (give or take), but the difference between a "good" unit and a "bad" one is the opportunity cost between resources.

[@theboostedbaboon4586]

So like you were saying with the Archers. Both have potential to be good, but since one uses a resource with less opportunity cost than the other, it makes more sense to give it to them and view them as the "better unit" because of that