Responding to Calvinist Arguments for Limited Atonement

In this video I will be handling the following Calvinist objections to the idea that Jesus died for all people.
1) Trinitarian Harmony in the Atonement. This involves the idea that there is conflict between the intention of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit if Jesus meant to die for all people.
2) The idea that if Jesus tried to save all people but didn't then He failed. Therefore Jesus didn't try to save all and didn't die for all people.
3) The idea that Jesus' atonement and intercession are the same in extent and application.
4) Dilemmas Calvinists sometimes present as logically forcing you to affirm limited atonement. In particular we will look at John Owen's dilemma/trilemma
5) The double-payment or double-jeopardy argument. This says that if Jesus died for all then to punish anyone in the future would be to punish sin twice and would threaten God's justice.
I'm actually covering more than this but this is the main focus.
Here is my original video making a case for unlimited atonement • Limited Atonement, Uni...
Here is Dr. White's video in response to my video (most of what I'm reacting to today was found in his response) • Radio Free Geneva: Mik...
Here is a playlist of all my videos related to the topic of Calvinism. • Why I Think Calvinism ...
Finally, this is an in house discussion and I affirm Calvinists as my beloved brothers and sisters and would welcome them in full fellowship (and so should you).
If you love this ministry and want to partner in supporting it please click below to go to my web site. biblethinker.org/index.php/do...
BibleThinker mugs are available here www.zockollpottery.com/produc...

[@turtlepants]

If I buy pizza for everyone in the room, but only a few people eat it, it doesn't mean I just bought the pizza for the few who ate it. I still bought enough pizza for everyone and hoped all would eat it.

[@johnhenneken6595]

😊

[@Mattissaved]

All the while failing to recognize when you bought pizza 🍕 for everyone it ended up being a waste of your money & meaningless. Is that what Christ did ? Died on the Cross for everyone who ever lived and for those who end up in Hell paying for their own sins Christ dying for them ended up being meaningless ? Imagine that…you have to believe in a God who formulated a plan to redeem all of mankind, looked down the corridors of time to see his plan would end up being an almost complete catastrophe seeing most of the world will end up in Hell according “the MANY who enter the broad road” and yet God still allowed and set this plan in motion…that’s the God you have to believe in based on your position.

[@turtlepants]

@@Mattissaved Yes. That is what I believe. His offer of salvation is open to all, but only those who accept his gift of salvation will receive it. Many will chose not to follow or receive his grace. If predetermination or predestination is true, then God created billions of people, only to condemn them to hell. I believe we have a choice. He does not make us follow.

[@ladillalegos]

Simple but efficient analogy

[@Mattissaved]

@@turtlepants I applaud you for sticking to your guns but I couldn’t ever bring myself to believe that…I cannot reconcile God sending his Son to die and suffer for the sins of everyone who ever lived, he died for their shame, guilt,contempt in absolute brutal fashion. And then those who don’t believe in him are sent to Hell to pay for the same sins Jesus already paid for on the Cross…they pay for their own shame, guilt, contempt. That is a form of Double Jeopardy, being charged twice for the same offense. Someone is being treated unjustly, either Jesus or the sinner. But here’s perfect justice…. Jesus died for the sins of only those he will save. (Matt 1:21) The unbeliever ( Rom. 1:20) is paying for his own sin in hell in perfect justice. Nobody is treated unfairly.

[@johnmoeller8318]

Dear Mike, I can only hope that you will see this, but I appreciate your honesty and dedication to keeping the peace, in what could have been a heated debate. I'm also grateful for the joy you have while covering a sensitive topic. You truly set a good example in confrontation, on how to be gentile and wield Gods word with care. I thank God for all the great work he is doing through you, and I wish you many great years in fruitful ministry! I have been walking with Christ for almost 3 years, and the thing I have wrestled with the most (theologically speaking) is whether or not Calvinism accurately represents the truth. While I admire the boldness, commitment to scripture, wisdom, and firm faith that I see in many Calvinist teachers and preachers. Something didn't feel right about the theological system. However, I didn't want to follow my feelings alone, so I would describe my position as "not quite a Calvinist." But after watching this video I can confidently say, that I love my Calvinist brothers and sisters, I am glad we share the same hope and salvation, but I do not subscribe to the same theological system. This was a very important dilemma for me to sort out, because the gravity of what being a Calvinist Christian means can change how you interact with non-believers, and how you view God in his purpose for salvation. All of this in a way, I thought, opened the door to a sort of spiritual elitism. God bless, and thanks again for all you do!

[@stevensingleton1855]

God bless you brother! I had the same feelings too, but when a system of theology cannot be simply explained by the Scriptures and we have to take verses out of context or change definitions to fit our system then our system is wrong! I pray you continue to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord brother! 🙂

[@johnmoeller8318]

@@stevensingleton1855, thank you!

[@inspiredby621]

Had the same struggle. Theology changing the way I witness, the way I interact with the lost. Very helpful. May God bless!

[@fmorraz]

Doctrines of grace should lead you to witness actively in love. I don’t understand what gospel were you living in.

[@lukewoodard3189]

Awesome 😎

[@graceperiod5352]

By grace alone, by faith alone, In Christ alone!

[@danjbundrick]

I'm a Calvanist, and I agree that these are powerful arguments. I consider them strongly especially since Mike is a trusted teacher

[@Saiyan585]

A flawed man made theology.

[@chuckdriver8269]

Uncalvinize yourself and trust in Jesus.🙏🏼🇺🇸

[@lisaloo715]

God bless you and keep you and your loved ones. I agree Mike is a trusted teacher encouraging us to look to scripture.

[@OctagonalSquare]

@@chuckdriver8269uncalvinize is such a weird word haha

[@SugoiEnglish1]

No you're not.

[@Judahmangi]

Mike, one of the most important aspects of your ministry (both in terms of being godly/loving and in terms of having genuine ethos that stands a chance of convincing anyone of anything) is that you do thought-out, measured response videos like this. So many Christian KZbinrs just do the thing where they watch the video, pause it when they wanna say something, comment/ramble about it for a few minutes, play the video, and repeat. Your not going off the top of your head provides your videos so much persuasive power, I think. Seeing you model this has played a huge role is my learning to disagree in a loving way (and to be more persuasive by being calm, reasonable, and specific).

[@joshportie]

Even though Jesus said to not plan but to speak from the heart. Let your nay be nay and yay be yay.

[@ActionJaxonH]

josh portie CONTEXT. That was said with respect to being persecuted and brought before the courts of unbelievers. It was NOT saying you should never use critical thinking or reply with a well thought out response.

[@nateboy123]

@@joshportie The heart is desperately wicked. Who can know it? I’d hate to be speaking desperately wicked things all the time.

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

@@joshportie you didn't actually read the Bible did you?

[@Ryan53164]

I couldn't agree more, Judah. The beautiful thing is that when I watch these, I learn just as much about responding to criticism with love and grace as I do about theology, and that is something admirable and extremely rare these days. Keep up the good work in the Lord, Mike. God bless you.

[@regelemihai]

I laughed out loud when you played the intro. I did not see that coming. Well done, sir :))

[@jeffawilliams1]

Same!

[@jalvarez5335]

Same cuz is almost a anthem flag for reformed church

[@zanel8290]

And the photoshops?😂😂

[@daveswanson5684]

Uvvvvuvvu8 hv 9 iv. Vv iu uihv8 u 8hvv u 8u h. H 9u vu8i. V. Vhuhv uvvui. H vh8 8. 8 h. Vhvv

[@daveswanson5684]

Vugv v u v u vuv8 8vvv9u iivh v

[@georgelulgjuraj1007]

One thing I really appreciate about Mike is his willingness to admit that he could be wrong. You will never hear James White or other ultra-educated Calvinist show that kind of humility. God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble

[@booner016]

Saying you're open to being wrong is not the standard of humility. Christ is the standard. The most Christ like and humble men I know are Reformed in their theology.

[@michaelsamuel1069]

I do not believe that those who support the doctrine of ELECTION are spiritually proud FOLLOWERS of KING 👑 YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH. We could say exactly the SAME for non-Calvinist - perhaps more proud than "Calvinist" I wouldn't call myself a "Calvinist" at face value but more of a Bible believing FOLLOWER of YAHSHUA HAMASHIACH.😱😱😱🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@chaleej5571]

I wish he would actually read all of 2nd Peter before pulling a verse out of context to suit his personal preferences. If you read 2Peter3:9 in context, you would have had questions at around 29:40 in the video when Mike pondered confusedly that when God is being patient toward "*YOU*" in 2Peter3:9, Calvinists teach that Peter is speaking of the Elect but he waves his hands and poo-poos such a notion. Where could that crazy idea come from? Bereans who actually read the rest of 2 Peter might point to chapter 1: 10 Therefore, *BROTHERS*, be all the more diligent to confirm *YOUR* calling and election. Peter is writing to the Elect (just as He did in his first letter - 1Peter1:1). Who besides the “Elect” would be interested in confirming their “election?” This is not complicated. This is 6th grade reading comprehension. Peter is telling the family of God that God is being patient for their sake in delaying Jesus' return. Peter has just spent a chapter and a half railing against *THEM* (the unbelievers) to warn the Elect about listening to them and falling for their crap. 2Peter is a riff on Psalm 73, which also recommends taking the longer view instead of envying the wicked, who often seem insulated from the persecution and suffering that Peter's readers were dealing with. If 2Peter3:9 were speaking from a human point of view, Peter would have said that Jesus has not returned because God is being patient with *THEM*. But it doesn't, because Peter doesn't ever ever ever speak of God's love for "them" in his letter. Speaking from God's eternal viewpoint, Peter only repeats the point that judgment is coming for *THEM* - to God, *THEY* are only like wild animals, born to be caught and destroyed - as Peter is warning the Elect (*YOU*) in his letter to avoid being misled or discouraged by *THEM.* So 2Peter3:9 is just reminding Christians who are suffering that Jesus' delay is only motivated by His love for all of His people, including those who have not been born or accepted Him within space and time. He will return when the last of His sheep have come to faith. As 2Peter3:15 says, "count the patience of our Lord as salvation." Not the optimistic hopes of maybes and possibilities but as Jesus securing the actual salvation of His sheep, whom He knows by name.

[@ernestojlassus1354]

I would never say, "this is the gospel, but is not really, others may be right"... When the truth is the truth, it will set you free.

[@matthewcraig8926]

@@booner016 I agree Christ is the standard, yes. But what about people who are not open to admitting that they could be wrong. Are they humble?

[@gracechan5845]

I chanced upon your podcast a year ago when I was hospitalised. It was an eye opener and the 7 nights passed by very quickly . You are truly a gifted and humble teacher. I thank God for the day I found your channel

[@whaddoyoumeme]

Lol! Just started but love the photos part haha

[@quickattackfilms7923]

That final word you had about brotherly unity and acting graciously towards each other, even in disagreement is exactly what we need right now. God bless, man. Learned a lot from this.

[@Loves2HugItOut]

I have an honest question: How do I keep unity with a doctrine that attacks the very core principles of the faith? This doctrine is growing rapidly and it has been destructive to so many people. I know there are brothers and sisters who are Calvinists so I don't know how to balance this situation. I'm in agreement that everything needs to be done in love regardless and I do not WANT to divide, but the Calvinist and non calvinist views on gospel issues are like oil and water. Maybe that is not so, but I'm finding it hard to see otherwise. I don't want to have to divide with the people but I don't know how to not divide with the doctrine? HELP!

[@quickattackfilms7923]

Loves2HugItOut Tough question honestly. Calvinism actually gave me a lot of doubts when I first encountered it, so I DO think the tenants can have a lot of adverse effects. But we have to remember that both Calvinists and non-calvinists are seeking biblical truth. They have, in my estimation, a flawed view of the atonement but it isn't a sin to be wrong. They aren't trying to be malicious or warp text, they're trying to interpret scripture truthfully. Just try to give their intentions the benefit of the doubt. Also, you probably already know this but it's worth repeating: The Calvinism debate is non-essential to salvation. This means two things. One, your salvation isn't in jeopardy when falling on either side of the issue. And two, Calvinists are your brothers and sisters no matter what. We'll be seeing them in heaven so treating them with love is a necessity. We should be praying about it too. Not praying that Calvinism would go away, but that God would reveal to us biblical truth. It could turn out that Calvinism is true. If it is true, I pray that God would reveal that. And if it isn't, I pray that God would reveal that to the Calvinists of the world and that they would begin to teach sound doctrine. In the end, we have to love one another no matter what. This doesn't mean we shouldn't address wrong theology.

[@quickattackfilms7923]

Sorry for the huge reply lol. Got carried away.

[@jaygee2187]

Quick Attack Films this is an absolute lie. It is very much a salvation issue. Calvinists flat out call God a liar and refuse to accept His word. If I had remained true to the reformed theology I grew up with I never would’ve sought Jesus and never would’ve been saved.

[@quickattackfilms7923]

First of all, what I said is "an absolute lie?" I'm trying to deceive you? Not the case. Second, no. Believing God determines everything doesn't damn one to hell. Third, Calvinists CAN'T deny biblical essentials like how to act and how to be saved. And they don't... for the most. There are always people on the fringes, no matter the biblical position that don't act in accordance with the bible. For instance, people brought up to Jeff Durbin whether they need to evangelize because of God's determinations. He basically said "Of course you need to! Because that's what the Bible says to do." Respectfully, I think you have a warped view of calvinism brought on by the extreme views held by either the people around you or maybe the people you've seen online. To summarize, the idea of calvinism may be flawed theology, but it's surely isn't damnable theology.

[@codyrecanati7718]

Pastor Mike, thank you for setting my mind at ease with this topic. I’ve only learned of Calvinism recently (I’m a newer Christian) and the thought of some being predestined to hell seemed very unlike the one true God I’m learning about. After watching your arguments, Calvinism seems to only make sense if you come to the scripture with the thought of trying to prove Calvin’s points and stretch a few passages while completely ignoring many other that talk about the atonement for all. I appreciate the in-depth dive into this topic and look forward to watching more of your videos!

[@hilarioushen4164]

All in the Bible does not mean all, all of the time.

[@christianpolitics260]

If no one is pre-destined to hell than that means there is either no Hell or people can over power God! If God is not sovereign, than God is not God? And the existence of Hell and the fact that most people will be in Hell not heaven is made very clear all throughout scripture. Narrow is the way.

[@christian_gamer_guy6447]

@@christianpolitics260 No. You need to think more deeply about this and try to understand what scripture teaches, and get away from what Calvinism has taught you. Of course God is sovereign. Sovereign means king. God is over all. That does not mean He controls everything that happens. Pride and lust are not from the Father, and He does not tempt anyone. There are quick, simple examples that the Calvinistic idea of sovereignty is clearly wrong. The only people that are destined for hell, are those that are condemned. Jesus says in John 3 that if you do not believe in the son, you are condemned already. But in John 6, we see that the will of the Father is that those who look to the son and believe will have eternal life. We see that He gave Himself as a ransom for all men, and that God wants all to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Hell and judgement is reserved for those who choose to suppress the truth in unrighteousness and trade it in for a lie. Before you were a believer, you were destined for hell, and now, you're not. From the foundation of the world, God has set up reality so that the faithful in Christ were destined to be saved, to be conformed to the image of the son. He has placed before us life and death, and He wants us all to choose life, and we all can.... but not all of us will. I pray that you would let scripture shape your thinking on this.

[@warnerchandler9826]

@@christian_gamer_guy6447 This is such a well stated reply. I was considering replying to @ChristianPolitics to note several wrong assumptions in his argument (such as it was). I think you covered them succinctly.

[@ChristianZangief]

@@christianpolitics260 you’re mistaking foreknowledge with predetermination. God gives us free will, he knows what choices we’ll make before we make them, but that doesn’t’ mean God destined some for Hell. How can an all knowing, all good and all powerful God create a world with such evil? Simple because of free will. Calvinist’s entire world view denies free will.

[@ChristinewithaC]

You are absolutely right! I was taught to interpret God’s Word like you do in this video. It seems like all the KZbinrs I’ve been finding are Calvinists. So refreshing to find this video. I will show this to my son. He is 21 and seeking truth. We raised him in church and he loves God, but he’s struggling to know what to believe because he hears so many different takes on what the Bible means.

[@kkdoc7864]

I’m glad you and Jimmy went skydiving together, but I noticed you didn’t remember your parachutes, so I must say seeing you here is a surprise and more evidence of God’s miraculous power!

[@sylviaa5785]

😂😂

[@chill3561]

Hi Mike! My husband and I thoroughly enjoyed your clear teaching today. We have only discovered your KZbin channel and are blown away with how articulate you speak on God’s word. You are truly blessed and are blessing us. Thank you! We are now doing your Mark series and will be submitting questions on your Friday Q&A which starts at 8am here in Australia. God bless! Constance (and Peter)

[@atvgbibleprophecywatch285]

The photoshopped picture of skydiving killed me. I couldnt stop laughing

[@Henry._Jones]

Photoshopped? They didn't really go? 🤣

[@abovenbeyond2021]

Thank you so much for this Brother Mike. I did not know that limited atonement was Calvinism until couple of years back. We were always taught based on the texts from Matthew 20:28...But now thanks to God he has given much more insight. I can understand the heart of the Father. Thank you so much. Watching it way later but edified in Christ. I trust when we meet with him in eternity even all this will become more clear..

[@Maya_Ruinz]

Amazing video, thank you so much for breaking this down. The subject of Atonement is important to understand and I was having a hard time reconciling these two ideas and you made it clear. As a relatively new believer I was brought into the Calvinist doctrines from the start and I'm so glad to have found such an informative video that covers the differences of thought. God bless you for the work you do TY.

[@MusedeMented]

If I buy three people birthday presents but one refuses to take theirs, it doesn't change the fact that I bought it for them.

[@dw-rh6fb]

Why buy something if you know the person isn't going to like it, want it, or appreciate it? If you know you will have to throw it away or return it, why not just get them something they do want...if you know. God made some for eternal life, and some for destruction. Who are you to judge God for His creations?

[@jackslapp9073]

@@dw-rh6fb. So, why did you ask the question if you knew what the response would be?

[@dw-rh6fb]

@@jackslapp9073 i don't.

[@jackslapp9073]

@@dw-rh6fb. Yes, you do. You know what free-will is, right? BTW, where did Muse judge God in the comment?

[@dw-rh6fb]

@@jackslapp9073 free will? Are you talking about the idea that God isn't 100% sovereign and that reality plays out independently of God's will? Where did i say Moses judged God? Im talking about what Paul said.

[@bdavidgreenwell8298]

Mike, I am so amazed at your ability to be accommodating to those who misinterpret you! You are really gracious to them and that is such a godly position to make. It is not that easy either! When writing a response to people in these threads, I ask Holy Spirit what to write, then wait for him to give me permission to respond and quite often I end up not responding at all, because by the time I've gotten a sense of what to say, I've gotten the sense that it's not worth saying!

[@cashdeane]

Your exegesis is really refreshing and delivered very humbly.

[@crapemyrtlejournals]

Thank you for this video! My husband and I are on a road trip, and we've now spent a couple of hours listening to your videos specifically about calvinism. Very thought-provoking and educational. We appreciate your analysis and looking at all of scripture to teach the truth of Christ dying for the world.

[@rebagail4989]

Thank you for this video and all of the videos in your playlist dealing with Calvinism. I am sincerely grateful.

[@Stickythekid]

I’ve watched this video 4 times and every time I watch it I learn something new. Thank you

[@lesliewells1062]

Thanks for the music. And I so appreciate your teaching about Calvism. I've never thought that it was right. But you are helping me understand it better and also to be able to talk about it more knowledgeably. I also really appreciate how you don't believe in dividing from and judging other believers over secondary issues!

[@dpcrn]

Well done on the intro! Loved the pics. Bringing a little levity to a heavy subject. Thank you for your attitude and example.

[@gfuller16]

"Let me take you to a passage you've probably never heard before....it's in the gospel of John..." lolz

[@homecactus]

Haha. Amazing how I read this comment while watching and was really confused that I didn't hear him say that, then 5 seconds later I'm at that point in the video. Chronological comments

[@pinoychristianpilgrim]

Respect brother. You truly contribute to this conversation. Your position is crystal clear and your humility is superb.

[@terryhuffaker3615]

Lunch, hiking, Disneyland and sky diving?!?!! Mike, you are such a wonderful friend..lol I just enjoy your sense of humor; but, also your desire to prioritize what is important in life. You are definately a gift to the Christian community.. I thank God for your desire to build and uplift not only the church but also those who who may yet come to faith by Jesus.

[@yeshuaisthewaythetruthandt2191]

I've had a couple of Jew's, tell me; Jesus only came for them. And Gentiles were Jew's who were the "world." Not gonna lie, it did get to me and I questioned it. But, thankfully my precious grandpa, who is now with the Lord reassured me, it's EVERYONE. Yes, He came to the Jew's first, but then also to the rest of the world!

[@Sirach144]

I've heard this too. That the gentiles are just jews outside of of Israel.

[@brandonvonbo9708]

@@Sirach144 I believe they say that the “gentiles” are the 10 lost tribes of Israel.

[@divinechord7]

Just like the Bible says :)

[@krustysurfer]

Everyone descended from Adam.... We're all cousins by blood..... Jesus is the uniter of all mankind except for those who refuse him as the Messiah... God will not be mocked, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Yahoshua Hamashiac/Jesus the Messiah is Lord and Savior!

[@krustysurfer]

@@skippy675 you're too smart for me and possibly too smart for God

[@mjmesserli]

Mike, I agree completely!! Very well done brother. You covered a tough topic with love, grace and wisdom. You went to the great passages that our brothers cannot refute. They simply ignore them. If it helped I would stand and cheer you! Thank you.

[@michaelgabel3925]

Thank you for your ministry, by which you show yourself to be a loving brother, Mike Winger.

[@CoreyMurphy-l9f]

@Mike Winger Thank you for your teaching and thorough walkthrough of scripture. One of my best friends recently became a Calvinist. He began to challenge our group of friends during our weekly Bible study. His challenges increased our need to dive into scripture and understand God more fully in order to respond. I greatly appreciate your vidoes. They have helped all of us understand scripture with more accuracy and consistency than ever before.

[@eversosleight]

Slaying the guitar brother! Great intro!

[@jaxsonfanta5420]

I was a calvinist, but while there is some verses I’m not sure how to explain regarding election and free will, but God clearly says His desire is for all men to be saved. I couldn’t reconcile this verse into a limited calvinist box, God clearly desires all men to be saved. Election, Being chosen in eternity past, all of these truths must also align with Gods desire. And He gave His Son for the world. Again you can’t just say God’s desire is for… SOME to be saved. The verse says all.

[@stegokitty]

I'm afraid you're making a serious mistake by applying a universal meaning to the word "all". It actually ends up making the Bible nonsensical mess. The word "all" (just as "everyone" or "all men", etc.) has a context, and that context cannot contradict the rest of Scripture. Firstly, you must always ask "All of what?" Is it "all without exception" or "all without distinction"? It has to be one of those two in each passage. And in fact, you have to be able to determine this sometimes within the same passage, and it cannot be arbitrary, or else again, you're contradicting other Scripture, and that's a No-No. Rom 3:23-24 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." So ALL have sinned, and ALL are justified. While part one is universal, part two is not, for it begs the question EVEN THE UNREPENTANT? The real question is ALL OF WHAT? However, the people who believe in universal salvation look at that verse and say "See?! All have sinned BUT all are justified free by God's grace -- Universal salvation!" But you and I and Mike know this is not the teaching of Scripture. The question you must ask yourself is this -- Does God help sinners to save themselves, or does God saves sinners by Himself? This might sound like a ridiculous question for a legitimate Christian who knows that their works played no part in their salvation, but think of this -- What is the difference between you and the other person who heard the same Gospel, and instead of believing upon the Lord Jesus, was offended and went deeper into their sin and idolatry? Why did YOU believe and THEY did not? Is the difference IN you or from WITHOUT you?

[@jaxsonfanta5420]

@@stegokitty Christ died and we are given a choice. Their is only one way into heaven, and that is through Grace. It's a gift, and the gift can only be received. We don't do anything to get into heaven, we just believe and get everything He ever earned! Why don't Calvinists stop at the word Whosoever in John 3:16?

[@stegokitty]

@@jaxsonfanta5420 I noticed that you didn't address what I said, but went on to another related issue. Do you, or do you not concur that we must be careful in how we interpret "all" and other such words in the Scriptures (or anywhere for that matter), lest we come away with ideas that are utterly foreign to the meaning of the Scriptures? Just so you know, I can provide for you a plethora of other Bible verses that show the fact that "all" almost never means "everyone without exception" but rather "everyone generally" or "everyone without distinction". So I will be glad to touch base with your follow up comments, if you'll kindly respond to what I said and presented as an example of why "all" doesn't mean "every single person without exception". Thanks in advance.

[@jaxsonfanta5420]

​@@stegokitty All doesn't always mean everyone all the time, but in the context I was speaking of in the original verse John 3:16 the whosoever is the word I am most concerned with. Every knee will bow and every tongue confess... Does that mean there is a special group of people that this verse isn't referencing that won't be bowing the knee when Christ returns? In the case of John 3:16 you have to change the meaning of the verse to make it say something other than what it is explicitly saying, which is that whoever puts their faith in Christ is saved, whoever doesn't is not saved. 'All of those who put their faith in Christ' shall be saved is perhaps an easier way of saying it so we are both on the same page. How predestination works itself into this is beyond me, lol... While all doesn't always just mean the word all, it does in this context, and this verse certainly doesn't say anything different than that lest we add to scripture, which I have seen Calvinists do to this verse to fit their predestination mold.

[@stegokitty]

@@jaxsonfanta5420 //All doesn't always mean everyone all the time ... // Yes, it does. It means everyone IN the context of what is being said. //... but in the context I was speaking of in the original verse John 3:16 the whosoever is the word I am most concerned with. I'm not sure why you're stuck on "whosoever" as if it makes any difference. Whosoever means "anyone" or "everyone" and it means "anyone" or "everyone". Everyone who trusts in the Name of the Lord shall indeed be saved. Who the heck ever said anything differently? There's not a Calvinist on the planet who denies that ANYONE who believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved. So why are you pretending that this is the case? The question concerning the Doctrines of Grace is asking the question why does one person believe and another person disbelieve? Just as I asked you in my first response, and it appears that you dodged it, I'll ask you again. WHY did you believe and the other bloke sitting on the same pew heard the same Gospel and thought it was as attractive as a frontal lobotomy? From where comes the DIFFERENCE? The difference is EITHER something that is inherently in you, something more noble, more wise, less sinful perhaps, than was in the other person who disbelieved. OR the difference is from OUTSIDE of you -- something that was done TO you, by God, that was not done to the person who disbelieved. You were both unbelieving idolators of one sort or another (you're not going to deny this are you?) and you both heard the Gospel. You believed, and he didn't. WHY? Either you're a better person than the other person or God gave you a grace He didn't give to the other person. Please answer this question. //Every knee will bow and every tongue confess... Does that mean there is a special group of people that this verse isn't referencing that won't be bowing the knee when Christ returns?// I highly doubt that. I think even the souls in Hell will have to admit that Jesus Christ is Lord. They will know their guilt before the infinite, eternal, and unchangeable God, and have not even a shadow of doubting it. They will bend the knee just the same as those who are ushered into everlasting blessedness. Does that help? //In the case of John 3:16 you have to change the meaning of the verse to make it say something other than what it is explicitly saying, which is that whoever puts their faith in Christ is saved, whoever doesn't is not saved.// Again, no Calvinist changes anything in that verse. Perhaps some new person to Calvinism who hasn't understood things properly -- like the one who go about saying "We don't have free will" .... which is only half true, and we should talk about that later since it's directly connected to the necessity of sovereign grace, but it's also half false. So new Calvinists should not go around saying that. //'All of those who put their faith in Christ' shall be saved is perhaps an easier way of saying it so we are both on the same page.// Already established and as you can see, I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with you. NO ONE IS LEFT OUT if they believe upon the Lord Jesus. //How predestination works itself into this is beyond me, lol... // Well that's precisely the point isn't it? Now I'm not claiming to have all knowledge of how predestination works, and I'm glad that you didn't speak as if predestination was not a Biblical doctrine. However, predestination is precisely the reason why one person believes and the other doesn't. See, I believe you're not interpreting John 3:16 simply as "everyone who believes shall be saved" but rather, and you may correct me if I'm wrong here but ... I believe you're forcing a meaning onto "whosoever" that is waaaaaayyy more than "everyone". I believe you're applying super-powers to "whoseover" -- that people who are still DEAD in their sins, enemies of God, opposed to the things of God -- that these people, by the almighty power of their fallen wills, have the ability to turn from their sins (which they love, and will defend to their deaths ... which you can see by the insane things that abortion advocates and transgender folks and atheists saying all the more these days) unto Christ, whom they LOATHE (though they don't mind the idol "Jesus" they've invented in their wicked imaginations) in saving faith, repenting of their sins (which they deny are sins), repenting of their self-righteousness (a label which they try to pin on you and me, when it's actually they who are self-righteous), and turning from their idols (which they love, love, love, love, love!) and trusting in Christ .... whom they do not trust. Do you see the problem here? //While all doesn't always just mean the word all, it does in this context, // See above. //and this verse certainly doesn't say anything different than that lest we add to scripture, which I have seen Calvinists do to this verse to fit their predestination mold.// Any Calvinist that has to manipulate Scripture to fit into a predestination mold doesn't really know what he ought to know. I can guarantee you that there will be no Scripture manipulation by me. I will absolutely demand that you consider the context AND that you remember that one verse cannot contradict another. And if you're willing to abide by that, and if you're willing to participate, I'd like to challenge you to go through a study of Calvinism with me.

[@MackLeeGreen]

I am very glad that I stumbled across your videos. I love that you are willing to listen to the Calvinist arguments, consider them and then respectfully explain why you don't find them convincing. I have never heard the Trinitarian harmony argument. It's an interesting argument but I think one that creates more questions than it answers. As a Lutheran I am fascinated by your theology as I find a lot of common ground with you in regards to the atonement and justification but we would probably diverge when it comes to the Lord's Supper and baptism.

[@nicolegallagher3537]

I had to listen to multiple portions of this video multiple times, again and again ... mind-blowing. I love thinking critically about soteriology.

[@SamC_182]

Mike is such a great teacher, God bless you brother!

[@chloegivens2331]

I did a little research (barely scratched the surface if I’m being honest) on Calvinism vs Arminianism a few years ago, and your videos popped up. I’ve watched ever since and am so grateful because you’ve helped me think biblically about every issue, and to truly test the words of either legalistic, progressive, or just plain false teachings. So grateful for you Mike!!

[@antoniotototavares6534]

Mike, Loved that musical intro. You should do that more often. I enjoy all your videos and your musical skill. Thank for all you do. God bless

[@RaptureReadyPam]

God bless you for this video and all the scriptures you shared. This has been a difficult thing for me to work through with the scriptures.

[@bowfreak21]

Great video. This video has cleared many questions I had. God bless.

[@jonascole9172]

I appreciate how patient Mike has been in addressing the shortcomings of Calvinism. Calvinism is a contrivance and a credal system that seeks to render scripture contrary to the theoretical framework it represents as misunderstood. Whenever you require that a great body of scripture be discounted in order to put forth your own theological viewpoint, then you are on shifting sand.

[@wyattearpswoman838]

Amen.

[@zacharystarrin7556]

Mike Winger thanks forr setting an example in your videos. It is convicting to see how you speak truth in love to our brothers and sisters in Christ even those that disagree with you. We are suppose to be known for our love for one another, and I pray God helps us to do just that, because we can't do it alone. Only by faith in him. God bless

[@dennisroberts367]

Thank you for taking the time to put this together.

[@therayn0]

As I am listening to this, I wonder: Why do I enjoy this dealing with questions I never had and never came in touch with? Maybe it just gives me joy listening about God.

[@jasonkoemans4893]

Since when did it make God less sovereign because He created mankind with the ability to make decisions?

[@Kiki-fe2le]

I know right?!

[@edelbertlitangan5780]

God created mankind with the ability to make decisions, He can, He is sovereign.

[@danglingondivineladders3994]

@@edelbertlitangan5780 agreed. the fact that we get to choose IS the Will of God.

[@Henry._Jones]

@Jason Koemans Calvinism doesn't posit that God is any less sovereign for all man's decisions, as long as it's understood that nothing God does is ultimately dependent on man's decisions.

[@christian_gamer_guy6447]

@@Henry._Jones Some of what God does IS dependent on man's decisions, but only because He has chosen for that to be the case, in His sovereignty.

[@robertmorris9807]

God bless and I think you do a great job uniting rather than dividing. If we the church truly were to be of one mind and tackle this culture with the word we could make changes so great none of us could imagine.

[@lsylvester8548]

Pastor Mike, thanks for your clear teaching! I also appreciate your humility and that you are teachable! I’m listening from Charlotte NC. I love the Calvary Chapel model and ministry! My dad was one of the 1st Calvary Chapel pastors. He’s now in heaven, praise Jesus! How I long for a Calvary Chapel in the Charlotte NC area! May God continue to bless your ministry!

[@mfundondlovu146]

Revelations 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. IF ANYONE should hear My voice and open the door, THEN I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me

[@rickhuntling7338]

Who picked the door and knocked? Who spoke to who? Who comes in? I'm guessing you missed the "I wills" in the verse?

[@bradenglass4753]

@@rickhuntling7338 shut up you brainwashed calvinist. Stop saying God can act immorally to protect his sovereignty, not how that works. You people are insane

[@tarascoterry]

There are literally 100’s of verses in the overall Calvinist debate and this isn’t one of them. On the atonement there are a lot fewer and Mike covered a good many of them.

[@Phill0old]

Er that passage is to a church. Does context mean nothing to you?

[@urawesome4670]

This was written to the 7 churches in Asia Minor. Audience relevance is important, which is often overlooked by non-calvinists.

[@springsoflifeministries2396]

Great job👍 The Gift of God was given to the entire world, but only those who receive this Gift are saved.

[@nicholaschrist1086]

That's exactly how I see it. If I offered $100 to all who came to my house and only a few showed up that's the fault of the ones who missed out. The offer still stands. Just because they didn't believe doesn't mean I didn't offer.

[@mysteryofchrist7287]

The gift of God does not have to be actively received to take effect. It's more like a punch in the face, you just get it.

[@Martha77]

Thank you for being so gracious. It’s refreshing.

[@damonpeters4150]

Thanks Mike. As always I appreciate your wisdom and willingness to address these topics. Also thanks for your approach.

[@revisitingchristianity7138]

Seeing the pictures with James White is indeed refreshing. The pictures speak for itself. Great friendship inspite of differences in theology.

[@djdiener4673]

*Gets ready for mind blowing theological discussion* BUT FIRST!!........*plays a little diddly doo* lol had me rolling. Awesome video Mike!

[@tomaszciszek3023]

Even when this videos are long, they feel short when playing while cleaning. Great content!

[@gratefulpipeandcigar3239]

Wow! Wow🎉🎉🎉🎉 I’ve been waiting and waiting for you to play something on a guitar! That was awesome.

[@Genesis.1-1]

Mike, thanks for the work you put into this. I am no theologian but I know many Calvinists so you've helped me immensely with my understanding of Calvinism. I sat down with a Calvinist pastor and had him explain the TULIP doctrine to me. I asked a lot of questions, many he couldn't answer with scripture. He said he would provide me with scriptural answers but never did. In 2 Peter 3:9 the Calvinist view of God not wanting "any" of the "elect" to perish rather than simply any at all seems to refute the I in TULIP, Irresistible Grace. If God elects you for salvation, you cannot resist and therefore cannot perish. At least that's the way it seems to me. Love your ministry, God is using you in a profound way during these times of false teachers.

[@brandonmcmaster9994]

Thank you Mike I've been struggling with the logic pretzel of calvinism ,this explanation has helped alot.

[@samuelaguilar9668]

Mike Winger has a lot of inconsistencies in his theology! Though I watched some of his videos but not all. Some of his ideas on other topics like Roman Catholicism and Baptism are good. But not this one. The problem with Mike Winger is that he lacks exegesis and hermeneutics on this topic. He can't really exegete Romans 9! Also, Mike is saying that Salvation is Synergistic. The problem with that view is that you make man Sovereign and not God. He doesn't really understand what the Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 2. We are saved by grace alone through faith alone not by works so that no one may boast!

[@judylloyd7901]

@@samuelaguilar9668 You might enjoy Leighton Flowers on this issue. He was a Calvinist himself for over 10 years, so has a good grasp of the doctrine. Mind you, I think Mike Winger is pretty good at digging into the scriptures too.

[@mofe620]

@@samuelaguilar9668 Did you watch his video on Romans 9? Can't exegete scripture or can't say what you want him to say?

[@firelight_ministries]

@@samuelaguilar9668 Mike is not synergistic. That’s blatantly false unless of course you believe faith is a work. And under that crumbles everything else you said.

[@claudiaperfetti7694]

I'm soo glad for this video!!! Sooo good . My soul told me this is what God meant. So glad you did the hard work!! One thing more: how could Jesus' sacrifice not pay for the whole world? Of course his life would atone for every sin, its value was infinite. Except somebody reject it and not "cash" it. To that person only it would not avail. The value is there, the payment was made, it was despised, disdained. From Argentina. THANKS

[@dinahlopez6408]

Thanks Mike, this was really helpful. The scriptures are very clear.

[@romannoris8213]

1) The non-elect individual is commanded to believe in the Gospel or be damned. 2) "The Gospel" = Jesus died for your sins. 3) But according to Limited Atonement, Jesus didn't really die for the non-elect. 4) Thus, non-elect are told to believe Jesus died for them when He in fact did not. 5) Thus, the non-elect is not legitimately given an option to accept, and thus cannot be damned because the offer wasn't even genuine. He is being damned for not accepting God's lie to him! Conclusion: Limited Atonement is false, which in turn means Calvinism is false.

[@Kiki-fe2le]

AMEN! I don't understand how something so simple is resulting in such confusion for many. I'm in shock by the Calvinistic view

[@rickhuntling7338]

You just gave an argument for Calvinism. The parable of Lazarus and the richman has two sides of hell "Abraham's bossom aka paradise Torment the richman's side" before the Gospel was confirmed. If all sin was paid for the wicked are set free. JESUS emptied only the paradise side of hell, the richman's side waits the lake of fire. Ps. 1 the wicked will not stand with the righteous on judment day because the believers sin have been erased and forgotten.

[@theomegawerty9688]

Those who do not believe are condemned already, not after they have been presented and reject the Gospel. Jesus died for all, but the payment is only applied to accounts of believers, otherwise everyone is saved. Therefore the atonement or the payment is only applicable to some accounts. And is therefore limited. This applies to all versions of Christ based salvation except universalism.

[@pskima4274]

Calvanist are right to a point we are called according to his elect but then Jesus did not die for only elect or believers. Jesus died for non believes too . Redemption is a free gift but not everyone will receive it because there is a Satan seed which has been planted since long ago.

[@rickhuntling7338]

@@pskima4274so JESUS died and paid for the sins of satan's seed? Howabout the potter made some vessels to contain glory and some vessels were meant for destruction is HIS will? Knowing the end from the begining is part of HIS title Alpha and the Omega. HE planed for you before you were born and before the foundations of the earth were laid. ✝❤

[@ReasonedAnswers]

Fantastic teaching. Love your detail oriented approach to Biblical exegesis.

[@m_e_c_k]

You got my like after you played "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott". I laughed tears. This is a way, to make a statement. My employer is a Lutheran church in Bremen (Abraham-Gemeinde), but we work closely with the reformed church next door (evangelisations and we operate a large tent for that purpose together). We are joking over our diffrences, in a similar way. Nice to see, that the world can be so small.

[@BrettMichaelRocker]

Loved the intro!! And the teaching as well, haha.

[@timmccreery6597]

My biggest problem with Calvinism is that it is based on a "logical system of thought" that requires the Word of God to be redefined according to their "system." The Word of God must define and outline our position, never the reverse. I also know, from having spent time in conversation with Calvinists, that they deny this, and simply proclaim that I don't understand.

[@Phill0old]

So yes we require that our theology be logically sound because, important note, if it literally doesn't make sense then you can't make any sense of it and you don't have a theology at all :-) Now on to your lack of honesty. Is Calvinism based on "a logical system of thought"? No. It is based on the bible and what it says. The clue is that it is a systematic theology not a philosophy 🙂 I think you must know this and are being dishonest, especially so because (by your own admission) you have been corrected many times. Is dishonesty, straw manning and refusing to be corrected by others about what they believe the right way for a Christian to behave? No, it is not. Let me tell you what your biggest problem is, sin. That's your biggest problem here too. Let's imagine you are an Arminian, and not a full on Pelagian, and clarify your position as indicated by your post. 1) You have a problem with logical systems of thought 2) You are so right that you know what people believe better than they do 3) You think arrogance and dishonesty are acceptable ways to behave 4) Your theology teaches that consistent wilful sin will make you unsaved 5) Only point 1 prevents the conclusion that you are going to hell But let's examine your theology and see why you might not like logical schools of thought. 1) You believe that Jesus bore the whole penalty for every sin for everyone that ever lived 2) That didn't fully atone for them and God requires something else in addition to that 3) What God requires is that they believe that this is true 4) If we don't believe it is true then even though it is true that Jesus paid the price for every single sin that anyone ever committed God will act like it isn't 5) God is truly just I can see why you might prefer illogical thought. If I'm wrong then there isn't any point telling me because it will be based on an illogical system of thought and therefore I won't be able to understand it. Mike's a good guy generally but on the Charismatic nonsense and his rejection of Reformed Theology he is hopeless.

[@ChristianZangief]

@@Phill0old Arminianism is Diet Calvinism. Presenting it as the only real other choice outside of works based salvation is a false dichotomy. God draws all, all can reject God’s call, those that accept the call of God and place their faith in Christ and repent of their sins will find salvation. Faith is not a work. If you claim that unless God forces me to have faith then my faith is a work is not found in scripture. Faith in God is presented in scripture as the reason we can’t boast.

[@Phill0old]

@@ChristianZangief I would never present it as a dichotomy because there is at least one other kind of semi Pelagian theology and full on Pelagianism. So it would be neither correct nor honest to do so. Since I'm a Christian honesty is important to me. You, on the other hand, present the idea that in Reformed theology faith is forced on people. Now that isn't true so either you don't know what you are talking about and should have kept quiet until you understood it you are not honest. Ignorance or dishonesty appear to be the only options here, unless you are insane? So which is it? Are you mad? Ignorant? Or a liar? For a proper understanding of how and why people are saved I refer readers to the Bible where they will find that people are chosen, selected and blessed by God in special ways and the rest are not so blessed but are left to their own desires.

[@Phill0old]

@@ChristianZangief Just over tiny issue with the idea that God calls all. You didn't say what God calls all people to. You didn't explain why God calling them means that they can do what they are called to do or why they would be so inclined. Could you clear that up? Since you are stating that the Bible makes those claims it should be an easy thing....

[@ChristianZangief]

@@Phill0old you’re claiming that in reformed theology the elect can choose not to be the elect? If not then their faith is forced on them from God. If so then they have freewill to reject God and some will. So which is it? God draws all to him but He allows us to either accept or reject his call. My phone can ring but I can choose not to answer it.

[@simplydee4113]

Thank you. I needed this. It’s a tough pill to swallow that some are damned and unable to accept God’s gift.

[@michaelbee2165]

That's not the teaching. ALL are able to believe and accept salvation. Most CHOOSE to be damned.

[@karenduncan6004]

You are so right. Some of them deny it, but Calvinism is determinism. I, too, choked on the idea that God created souls specifically to be damned.

[@MichaelCTruth]

@@michaelbee2165 Please explain? I thought some are elected and others not.

[@wilmalister8916]

Hi Mike, I love everything you said as I am in total agreement again. It is a hard and difficult topic to discuss but I think you’ve executed it perfect. I’ve learned, ‘ Christ blood was sufficient for the whole world, though effective for the elect.’ Still means that He died for all, once and for all, for all sins… but only those who belong to Christ - His blood is then effective…. Hope that all make sense. Sometimes we will find ourselves at a spiritual wall and we have to leave it in Gods hand and accept what He says in His Word in stead of trying to dissect scripture verses to make sense. Let God be God… I never knew that Calvinists believed in limited atonement… wow! thanks again for your clear teaching. Appreciate it so much! 💕🙏🏻

[@garfieldrobinson7837]

Excellent presentation Mike. Keep up the good work

[@VickyRBenson]

This is a particular helpful presentation. Mike! I love your videos, and don’t always comment, but I also love the attitude with which you share these. The fellowship you share with those you have disagreements with is an example to everyone. I find you research and interpretations very biblical and thoughtful. Thanks so very much. I’m subscribed and get notified when you post new videos. I remember the shock I felt when I first heard of some of these Calvinist doctrines. I’ll try to listen to the others you listed.

[@bjh13us]

Great video Mike. I'll be spending a lot of time in Ephesians 2 tonight thanks to watching this.

[@jrperes2021]

I attend a church who believes in limited atonement. I have not adopted that view and appreciate your approach that is gentle and backed with scripture. Grateful for my church and for you!

[@paulluce2557]

Loved the opening segment, especially the 'skydiving' bit..

[@ericcoloney4406]

Thanks, Mike. 1. Election is not about individual salvation. It is about duty/service to which all believers are called, hence the term, "the elect". 2. There is no RECONCILIATION without REPENTANCE. Believing without repentance is the same as acknowledging the free gift of salvation without accepting it.

[@indigofenrir7236]

This I agree. Calvinism says (afaik) God has chosen people from the beginning who will be saved and who will be damned; thus our fate is sealed whether we're saved or damned. This interpretation is hilariously wrong. A more accurate understanding would be God chose to save those who would choose to be saved. Jesus knocks on our doors; we can choose to let Him in or not (Rev 3:20).

[@marydetray6776]

The fact alone that Jesus died for the dammed TOO is the reason WHY their condemnation IS JUST, the hand was outstretched to them and they refused it!

[@Kiki-fe2le]

Amen!

[@yonatangenene2037]

And by doing so they committed the sin of blaspheming the spirit which Jesus didn't pay for. Amen

[@leobaltazar]

Brother Mike, i feel you. Been there done that. The scripture sometimes speaks theologically in anthropological sense, & sometimes speaks anthropologically in theological sense. May the love of Christ be with you always❤

[@rawdayoussef4223]

Thank you may God bless you and May God bless your ministry

[@joeroubidoux2783]

Any possible way you can put these arguments in a pdf ?

[@VickyRBenson]

Joe Roubidoux, great idea! Mike, what about it?

[@sierrarosethompson1053]

Joe Roubidoux he’s already doing so much. One of us should transcribe it into a PDF.

[@hotsauce4dayz222]

I am doing one run. It will be out today or tomorrow

[@regularstan6212]

Lol right!

[@regularstan6212]

@@hotsauce4dayz222 let me know what you got.

[@36742650885]

Please pray for me me and my mother are going through hard times

[@summerlarson1171]

I will pray 💙

[@coryalbright9798]

Praying..

[@nanmurray2988]

Excellent work. Praise our God.

[@dianamatthews5965]

Thanks for your gracious attitude and logical thought.

[@1920s]

This was a great presentation. I’d be considered “reformed”, but I’ve been questioning pretty much everything. This video was very helpful. Thanks.

[@coryalbright9798]

As you consider calvinism think about some of the contradictions and double talk present in this theology - God decrees all evil - God "restrains" the evil he decrees - all doesn't mean all, everyone doesn't mean everyone and the whole world doesn't mean whole world - faith is a work if not effectually given - admitting your a sinner in need of grace = earning your own salvation - God must condemn to hell most babies in the womb in order to show his justice These facts of calvinism are opposed to what we're taught in scripture. God desires all to be saved and come to the knowledge of him. God does not need to decree every action and thought of every man to be sovereign and in control.

[@1920s]

@@coryalbright9798 I’m Lutheran now. :)

[@coryalbright9798]

@@1920s 😃

[@followeroftheway6930]

@@1920s check out dr gene Kim and Robert breaker

[@christian_gamer_guy6447]

@@1920s Isn't lutheran also "reformed" and wrong in many of the same ways that Calvinism is?

[@TaylorAtwood]

As someone who is Reformed, I do still love you and your channel, Pastor Winger! I do disagree with you on this, but I appreciate that you do your best not to misrepresent those you disagree with!

[@robertoesquivel4447]

Ditto!

[@helicam1234]

Well said. It's what I like about Mike Winger. I have been edified by a number of his videos, even when I disagree on a few debatable topics. I am also edified by James White. I cannot say the same for Leighton Flowers or Steve Anderson, however.

[@TaylorAtwood]

Mike Hoskins I too, have been edified by James White. I love watching his debates and have learned a lot about Islam from him. I do find that he is sometimes not as gracious as he could be, but we all have our faults. I wanted to like Leighton Flowers, but he’s really just a one trick pony with a obsessive hatred towards Calvinism. Steven Anderson, while passionate, has far too many questionable and flat out hateful views.

[@pizzylee1978]

Taylor Atwood Jesus died for everyone... the ungodly and everyone is ungodly. It literally says it in the Bible. I’m so confused as to how anyone could have the opposing stance, no offense. That’s saying some people were born without even a chance, God wouldn’t do that if he loved mankind.

[@TONyjustRoCks]

@@helicam1234 Genuine question for you: Does the notion that you serve a God that decreed most of humanity to burn in torment forever edify you? Do you take moral pleasure in the fact that the only reason people are going to Hell is because your God decreed it so? Are you genuinely edified by this system? If so, please explain to me how I too can somehow see this as edifying? (Not to mention the aborted unborn babies = hellbound, but feel free to ignore this morally repugnant facet of Calvinism) If so, tell me how any normal moral mind is supposed to want to serve the Calvinist God? I genuinely want to understand the mind of intellectually convinced Calvinists. Please, tell me what possibly edifies you about it?

[@davidsteinart]

Brother you do a great job of illustrating something that I think is so crucial for people to understand. Calvinism uses philosophical and logical extrapolations from what they see as principles in the scripture in order to actually argue against what the scripture plainly says. And as you aptly pointed out, when you bring them a clear and comprehensive scriptural theme which contradicts their view they feel that you have done less than nothing , because you have yet to address their philosophical theories which they View as weightier and more meaningful than the text.

[@chaleej5571]

If you cared about the Bible instead of your philosophical constructs, you would have had questions at around 29:40 in the video when Mike pondered confusedly that when God is being patient toward "*YOU*" in 2Peter3:9, Calvinists teach that Peter is speaking of the Elect but he waves his hands and poo-poos such a notion. Where could that crazy idea come from? Bereans who actually read the rest of 2 Peter might point to chapter 1: 10 Therefore, *BROTHERS*, be all the more diligent to confirm *YOUR* calling and election. Peter is writing to the Elect (just as He did in his first letter - 1Peter1:1). Who besides the “Elect” would be interested in confirming their “election?” This is not complicated. Peter is telling the family of God that God is being patient for their sake in delaying Jesus' return. Peter has just spent a chapter and a half railing against *THEM* (the unbelievers) to warn the Elect about listening to them and falling for their crap. 2Peter is a riff on Psalm 73, which also recommends taking the longer view instead of envying the wicked, who often seem insulated from the persecution and suffering that Peter's readers were dealing with. If 2Peter3:9 were speaking from a human point of view, Peter would have said that Jesus has not returned because God is being patient with *THEM*. But it doesn't, because Peter doesn't ever ever ever speak of God's love for "them" in his letter. Speaking from God's eternal viewpoint, Peter only repeats the point that judgment is coming for *THEM* - to God, *THEY* are only like wild animals, born to be caught and destroyed - as Peter is warning the Elect (*YOU*) in his letter to avoid being misled or discouraged by *THEM.* So 2Peter3:9 is just reminding Christians who are suffering that Jesus' delay is only motivated by His love for all of His people, including those who have not been born or accepted Him within space and time. He will return when the last of His sheep have come to faith. As 2Peter3:15 says, "count the patience of our Lord as salvation." Not the optimistic hopes of maybes and possibilities but as Jesus securing the actual salvation of His sheep, whom He knows by name.

[@amandacarmel6084]

Thank you for this, I’m debating with a Calvinist currently and this video helped me out a lot

[@williamgullett5911]

Does this mean that Calvinists are not saved? Are they not saved if they believe that?

[@amandacarmel6084]

@@williamgullett5911 no they are definitely saved. If you believe in Christ as your lord and savior and confess ur sins. U shall be saved. All the finer details about what u believe probly doesn’t affect ur salvation as much as it affects ur life on earth and what u do with it.

[@williamgullett5911]

@@amandacarmel6084 As a newish 3 yr Christian I always had those things and will continue focusing on those things...then I started seeing these videos...and while it didn't change anything it muddied the waters. I know where my faith, my worship has to be...Jesus, the cross...His shed blood..Matthew 22:37...my heart is for GOD, not doctrines...although it makes me sad to see doctrinal debates..not because one side is right on an issue and one wrong..but because those debates divide Christians. Thank you for the response. GOD bless

[@nicholascelia3393]

Yes, I believe that Jesus died for all, so that those who believe should be saved.

[@Katze44123]

Thank you for affirming something I have thought for a long time. The bible clearing talks about some people being predestined for good works, for ministry, but it also talks about salvation being for all men. Since it has BOTH I believe in both.

[@michaelgarding516]

Great guitar sound Mike! Loved that!

[@wassupmrdan]

You got me! 😅. - I was believing you until you showed the photo of you and James White jumping out of an airplane. That was so funny.

[@deniseb8290]

Such great teaching on this topic which originally drew me to your teaching. So easy to follow. Thank you Mike!!!

[@annetteounga4299]

The teaching is very well done. Enough biblical references and good reasoning. I like your humility and teachability. I do not support Calvinism and I never knew how to 'argue' against it. You have taught me a lot, Mr. Winger.

[@KyleMullaney]

Mike I do enjoy the great work you do for the kingdom and I am glad you do it. That is though not a strong refutation of the intercession argument. Clearly, he could be interceding for a multitude of issues in our lives that God would be acting in them to preserve us unto salvation. In the end, the argument is strong that, he, even once we are saved, is interceding that we wold be preserved until his return or our death and entering the bosom of Abraham.

[@JonathanEngblom]

"...I knew this would be a long video..." ..well...thats relative 😊 love your work brother!

[@ruthvansandt9713]

1:11:00 John Bunyan’s Pilgrims Progress comes to mind as illustration. Christian’s burden did not fall away until he came to the Cross.

[@ChrisHolman]

Truth matters, there is one truth or there is no truth. There is one Biblical truth or nothing is true. When we read Scripture through the lense of denominational doctrine instead of reading the Scripture and letting that Scripture stand on it's own merit through proper Hermeneutics we risk falling into false doctrines. So one should ask when a teaching is presented "What does the Bible say regarding this and what is the context of that Scripture when it was written?" Now read your Bible and find God's truth! God bless!

[@defiance1790]

Chris Holman I completely agree. however, even Jehovah Witnesses will say exactly what you’re saying in order to state what they say is true...Regardless of their teachings being from the Watch Tower.

[@ChrisHolman]

@@defiance1790 First thing, I apologize for the novel, bare with me for a moment. That is a good point. I have learned that when I need to find the truth in the Word of God that I should ask myself a set of questions and find the answers to those questions. That being: 1. Who wrote it 2. Who was it written to 3. What is the subject being discussed. 4. What did it mean at the time it was written and it's relevance at that time. 5. How is it then relevant to us today. If I can accurately answer these questions I will find the truth in His word. There is a term for this process, it's call Exegesis. At this point this has become natural for me to do. One should never attempt to apply a modern interpretation to Scripture written thousands of years ago that it could not possibly mean. What matters is what the Scripture meant when it was written. Groups like Jehovah Witnesses could not arrive at the conclusions that they do if they applied proper Exegesis. An example of Scripture missused and misinterpreted is Psalm 105:15, also found in 1st Chronicles 16. "Touch not my annointed..." Many use this Scripture to mean "never question or challenge your pastor." If your Pastor says this immediately get up and leave, he will be a controlling Pastor setting himself up as the center of a cult of personality. What this Scripture was referring to as the "annointed" is God's chosen people as a whole. We are now grafted into the vine. So the relevance to us today is that we as children of God fall under His protection. Another example is Isaiah 14:12 but that is a very long topic on it's own. One thing I would like to note is the phenomenon of Linguistic Drift. The meaning of words change over time that is why I believe, and many agree with me, that it is important to look at the root Greek and Hebrew as well as the meaning of the words chosen at the time the Bible was translated into that edition. Many words found in the KJV are no longer used outside of the KJV so many people have no idea what they mean, particularly new Christians and non believers. In my opinion most Scripture does not require to be dissected like this, they are quite clear on what is being said. I hope this helps and further clarifies what I was trying to say. God Bless!

[@ChrisHolman]

@@exploringtheologychannel1697 Exactly! In addition to diligently searching for truth we must all have civil dialogue as well. A true seeker of truth will be willing to admit when they have been proven wrong and accept the truth as it has been revealed. I admit that at one time in my life I did not do this. God Bless!

[@defiance1790]

Chris Holman it not only clarifies, it helped to put some of my loose thoughts into a more structured mindset. Thank you 👍

[@ChrisHolman]

@@defiance1790 You are quite welcome Brother!

[@josephwalters4048]

Loved what you said in your intro.

[@Katt19941]

You did a lovely job at being gracious and address the situation fairly well. I'll honest, I'm Reformed and I do disagree with you on this subject. It was nice to see the conversation between you and Dr. White and it was done in kindness. 😊

[@nearlyrighteouslad3213]

They don't realize that the sacrifice of the Son was ultimate and complete, by reason of His endless purity and grace, so is His blood endless in value.

[@justinharrell327]

I can stay calm about Calvinism on paper, but when I see some of the ways it destroys people I know, work with, or live with....then I get passionate against it. Well...after further thought(lol), I also get passionate when I think about how Calvinism ruins the character of God made plain in scripture.

[@tarikR.R.5120]

Justin Harrell I could agree with most of that. I personally can’t say all the way only because I never actually met a real Calvinist/cessationist/reformer in real life yet. Hard to believe I know, but I only know of them through KZbin so far.

[@justinharrell327]

@@tarikR.R.5120 Yes I can believe because first contact for me was decades after being a Christian.

[@DavidKenady]

Justin Harrell Yes Justin. If Calvinism is true and God predestined people to go to Hell, that makes God a monster.

[@helicam1234]

@justin harrell I can, in love and concern, reverse everything you've said: "I can stay calm about Arminianism on paper, but when I see some of the ways it destroys people I know, work with, or live with....then I get passionate against it. Well...after further thought(lol), I also get passionate when I think about how Arminianism ruins the character of God made plain in scripture." Saying that about Calvinism -- or Arminianism -- is a blanket statement that needs justification. There are saved, growing, mature, Calvinists and Arminians out there. To say otherwise, without proof is unloving, judgmental, and illogical -- it's a straw man....and it's offensive. Most of the people I know are Arminian, while I am a five-point Calvinist. I see so many Arminians struggle about knowing whether they are saved or if they have lost their salvation. I grew up as a "five-point Arminian" and struggled with assurance. It scared me to death. When I would read 1 John 5:13 or Hebrews 6 (especially vv. 3-6), I wondered how I could know if I was really saved, since I believed I could lose my salvation -- and possibly never get it back. I also saw that it was utterly inconsistent to pray for somebody else's salvation if God did not intervene against somebody's free will, being an Arminian, at the time. On top of that, as an Arminian, I always worried that when I witnessed to somebody, that if I mess it up or was a bad witness at the moment or don't say the right words, I could be guilty of causing the other person to be less likely to believe in Jesus. For me and countless others, Arminianism is fear about salvation (my own and to those I witness to), not assurance. After searching the Scriptures and praying for myself, I saw that I was the one who was wrong. It started with understanding that the Scripture teaches assurance of salvation and that you cannot lose it -- but only if you're actually saved in the first place. At that point, I re-read 1 John 5:13, Hebrews 6, Romans 7-9, Ephesians, and Galatians. The book of John -- election is everywhere, along with assurance that you are saved (or that you are lost). Now, I witness, when I get the chance and pray for them harder, believing that God commands us to preach/teach the Gospel and that He "gives the increase," calls the elect, and is able to save people, in spite of me. Now, I should always be "ready to give an account" (1 Peter 3:15) and I strive to witness through my life, as well. Several years later, as a "five-point Calvinist," I have assurance of my salvation in Christ, I love both Calvinist and Arminian brothers and sisters in Christ, I worry less about witnessing, and I am growing like never before. My Bible reading and prayer are far more consistent. I love Jesus. So, has Calvinism "destroyed" me? That silly idea is utterly false. I can also reverse it, too, and show you brothers and sisters in Christ who are Arminian. Being a non-Christian "Arminian" or "Calvinist" will destroy you, though. That person gets an extra bad place in Hell, for eternity -- not because of those beliefs, but because they sat under the teachings of Scripture, time after time after time and still rejected Christ. Being a Christian "Arminian" or "Calvinist" who lacks growth will destroy you, as well. I saw Mike Winger's video but disagree with it in some areas -- and it's fine. As a 5 point Calvinist, I truly believe Mike W is a born-again believer. I like his ministry, and have both been edified by it, and have shared some of his videos. I love his attitude and his love for the Church -- Arminians, Calvinists, or other. If we get nothing else out of his video, we should take his example of living out the fruit of the Spirit and do likewise. I am also a fan of James White. It's so awesome that these two can sit down and love each other, just as Christ loves the Church. It's OK to have a heated debate about beliefs, in the Church -- "iron sharpens iron." Taking cheap pot shots against fellow believers is forbidden in Scripture. That's why blanket statements about "A's" or "C's" are so wrong. 'In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.' -- Augustine Mark 1:15 is true for "A's" and for "C's": “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel (ESV).”

[@justinharrell327]

@@helicam1234 Firstly, I am not Arminian. Secondly, I only took "pot shots" at a system..not the people...at least that was my intent. Lastly, I am sorry you had to write all that ;) I think both systems have flaws because I don't see them portrayed by the whole of scripture.

[@sherylriehl1334]

I would like to say thank you Mike for all you do and for these videos. I have learned so much and I really enjoy my time spent here. Even if I don’t always agree. Lol ❤

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Good job Winger... Love u n THE LORD brother..