Responding to Chris Rosebrough

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[@hyacinthbucket593]

As a fan of Fighting for the Faith, I agree with much of what you say here. Having watched F4F for a couple of years, I can attest that I HAVE seen Chris express sincere heartbreak for a brother with whom he disagrees (e.g. Jacob Prasch), so he is certainly not incapable of it. I have also been made uncomfortable at times with the level of mockery I have seen on F4F. Although I am not a "cessationist" in theory, I do relate to Chris's absolute abhorrence for what happens in the public square that passes for "prophecy". One issue that surrounds particularly those "prophets" who have a national stage (which was not addressed either in this program, nor in the "prophecy statement") is their incessant money-grubbing behavior, reminiscent of those "making merchandise" of the flock in 2 Peter 2. The poor, sick, and desperate follow these people, donating funds they can ill afford to spare, making it possible for them to continue their fleecing of the flock. Meanwhile, they are getting little or no sound, biblical teaching on JESUS, repentance, salvation, or sanctification I would submit that this is a huge motivator for Chris, to shock them out of this folly, having seen/heard hundreds of hours of his work. Unfortunately, this heart of concern is not often detectable in the mocking segments. I pray that Chris will take to God in prayer and humility the issues raised by Remnant Radio. I would also hope and pray that RR would prayerfully consider the issues raised by Chris - looking at the fruit of these prophetic "ministries" and admonishing them in an effort to protect the flock. I, personally, would welcome some programs addressing discernment of the fruits, and appropriate responses to those discernment exercises.

[@hereforthecomments555]

I totally agree with everything you said. I also listen to F4F and have learnt so much from his teaching of the Word. I've found lately that he will give a very quick snippet/intro of the topic of what someone is teaching and then goes straight to a thorough examination of what the scripture actually says so then when you do hear the false teaching later you can clearly see where they have gone wrong. And your right, I've been uncomfortable with how he handles the false teacher as well so I usually turn it off by then as he drives his point home, sometimes harshly. I've heard him explain that Elijah, Paul and Jesus used sarcasm and mockery with false teachers and he says its appropriate sometimes to wake people up and show how absurd it is, so followers can see how misguided they are and are leading people astray with such false ridiculous teachings.

[@simonallchin7436]

I agree with many things here . On the one hand I can only condemn the absolutely ridiculous , absurd and crazy so called prophets who just seem to say anything in the name of the gospel , but on the other hand I do not like the mockery of something like 'prophecy bingo' . Neither do I like the very wooden and rigid stances of some who criticize any person who they consider ' non Biblical' . I , like so many , am just an ordinary Bible believing Christian , who desires to follow Christ and to have an intelligent understanding of our faith !

[@JoshuaHughesWisconsin]

"to shock them out of this folly"... or "mock them out of this folly"... take your pick, but the point is.. what precedent for scripture instruction would you say this is a prudent or Godly behavior.

[@elibiro2290]

I would encourage you to look at RR's new years marathon video. I know its an incredibly long one but they do call out a number of ministers for giving false words. They also bring up concerns reguarding whether or not prophets today are supposed to be speaking out on a national stage.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Hey brother thank you so much for this, I really appreciate it. We have done stuff on Jeremiah 23 and that talks about prophets using their office for gain. In This video I did touch on the Christian industrial complex that is built upon book sales and conference speaking, although it was admittedly it brief. We have condemned the teaching of “Prophets“ such as Kat Kerr Hank Kunamen, Kenneth Copeland, Robert Henderson, Todd Bently, and Bob Jones. So we have no problem calling out sin. And to be clear I think Chris makes a very good points in pointing out the erroneous teaching, grievous practices, and greedy ambitions. Especially in older episodes. However, it appears that Chris is willing to condemn hundreds of theologians as Apostates and millions of Christians as heretic if they believe in prophecy. Because there’s only two options as a continuationist. One you believe prophecy is an inerrant and that it is equal to scripture, or two, you believe modern-day prophecy is errant and thus holds less authority than Scripture. Both of these views would be condemned by Chris as heresy. Thus what started as “calling out abuse” seems to have become “condemned all continuationist unilaterally”. Chris and I can agree to disagree on prophecy and the gifts. But to make the Charismatic a salvation issue is an egregious error.

[@gabymeyer8003]

Chris needs no defending from me. As a charismatic for close on fifty years, I’ve never heard the gospel so clearly explained as by Chris Rosebrough. He may seem harsh at first, but that is because of justifiable outrage at how false prophets have brought such reproach on the name of Christ. If you gave a listen to his discussion with Phil Johnson last week on the prophetic standards document, you might understand his skepticism more clearly. There are plenty of people out there giving cover for wolves, Chris isn’t one of them.

[@TKK0812]

Good theology and an ability to clearly articulate the Gospel doesn’t excuse bad character. Chris’ attitude and mockery bring reproach to the body of Christ.

[@Aleks-JesusismyLORD]

@@TKK0812 So do you want to encourage false prophets to keep going?

[@Aleks-JesusismyLORD]

@@TKK0812 And leading people to a false Jesus also leads to a false gospel, and is that ok?

[@JewandGreek]

@@Aleks-JesusismyLORD It's not an either/or deal.

[@Aleks-JesusismyLORD]

@@JewandGreek What is it then ? How many times does the Bible talk about watching out for false teachers? How often does Jesus say that ? To the Pharisees ?When someone says "God said" they say God gave them a "new revelation" which is not true everything was written in the scriptures...And nowadays it is even forbidden to expose false prophets ?

[@zarnoffa]

You guys are more concerned with Chris’ false prophet rebuke style than you are about actual false prophets within the church. When would you ever reject a prophet as false? You’re so loving, you won’t reject false prophets… but you’ll attack a child of God for exposing false prophets. Weird and telling.

[@pamdelaney5149]

Amen!

[@plainjane188]

You guys seem to have a real issue with someone “misrepresenting” another person...which makes complete sense...so why is it ok for a “prophet” to misrepresent God by speaking a prophecy that doesn’t come to pass? Your man Miller said it perfectly, “if you can’t represent someone properly you shouldn’t represent them at all”.

[@TKK0812]

Do you believe all your favorite teachers or elders at your local church have perfect theology or do you think they try their best to understand God's written word yet misinterpret it at times?

[@TheJpgr1958]

@@TKK0812 Category mistake. If someone claims to hear and speak for God, they MUST be correct 100% of the time. If however a pastor's teachings is contrary to God's word, and in the process of him preaching, doesn't state something like "God showed me this," or God spoke to me as clearly as I'm speaking to you and told me to tell you," and proceeds to state something contrary to again, God's word, you are to call them out on it. I did this to a pastor who told the church I was attending that God told him personally that same sex marriage is not condemned by God, which is why he was for gay marriage. I asked him, as I ask anyone who claims to hear from God, where in The Scriptures did God ever state that gay marriage is acceptable in his sight. Of course he couldn't cite one passage of scripture, so he went down the path of stating that God is doing something new in doing in His church. I again asked him to show me where in Scripture God stated he would do this. Of course he couldn't so he went on to berate me. After he calmed down, I told him to his face, that if he believed he was going to hear Christ tell him "Well done my good and faithful servant, enter into your rest," when he stood before Him, he was truly delusional. I left the church not long after this and I encouraged others to do the same. So again, you're making a category error. But be that as it may, I would still love for you to provide evidence of these miracles of people being raised from the dead, or as you stated...."These signs will follow: heal the sick, raise the dead, deliver those demonized." I know you can't, but will more than likely give me more word salad since that's all you have to offer. As I stated before, you would fit right in on Sid Roth's show.

[@TKK0812]

@@TheJpgr1958 You have me confused with someone else. I never stated that I’ve seen anyone raised from the dead. I’ve seen countless healings with my own eyes, people coming to faith through prophetic words brought to them, tongues interpreted, words of knowledge on and on and on. No, you’re sadly mistaken. Prophecy and the written word are at their core both what? Revelation from God. Prophets and teachers are both, at their core, doing what? Interpreting and delivering that revelation. There is absolutely and unequivocally no category error here. The Bible never says that if you get a word it MUST be 100% correct or you’re a false prophet anymore than it says if you’re a teacher you have to have 100% correct theology in order to teach or you’ll be a false teacher. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the NT prophetic. I’m not advocating for a view that allows for new didactic revelation that is contrary to scripture or adds to it. You’re also still failing to apprehend what I am saying. You said that if a teacher is in error, you’ll simply go correct them. OK, and what if he disagrees with your correction. Is one of you now a false teacher? You both have the revelation from God (His written word) but now one of you is misinterpreting what God is saying through His word. James actually says that not many should be teachers given the strictness of judgement that will be on them, while Paul actually says that ALL may prophesy and to eagerly desire it, but that it also needs to be weighed and tested. This correction you said you would bring to a teacher with a Biblical misunderstanding would also happen with someone who gave an incorrect prophetic word as well, so I haven’t seen a distinction yet. I guarantee that you can pick two or three of the best Bible teachers you know and they will likely all disagree on different points. Are you prepared, if you’re consistent, to call all or a couple of them “false teachers”? These are really poor arguments you’re raising, and what’s worse is they’re not from scripture, they’re simply incredulity. I stand with you against the nonsense that can take place in some charismatic churches, but I’m afraid you have a litany of straw men built up in your head and have lumped all charismatics together and placed them amongst the lowest common denominator

[@DefenderoftheCross]

@@TKK0812 how are we to unite as one Church when there is a group of people claiming to be one with us, yet they insist on new revelation from "prophets" when God's written is complete and sufficient, and then excuse false prophets with "good hearts" whose prophecies don't come to pass?

[@TKK0812]

@@DefenderoftheCross We all agree that God's word is sufficient, but in saying this it actually undercuts your position because God's word commands us to eagerly desire to prophesy. No one believes in new revelation in the charismatic world anymore then when someone prays and asks God if they should take a new job for instance and feels God is calling them to take/reject this new position. Is that "new revelation"? Of course not. Most charismatics have a very, very misguided idea of what prophecy is and how it's practiced from a Biblical perspective. No one is excusing these people. Remnant Radio has called on them to not only publicly repent, but to submit themselves to a local church and governing body of elders for accountability.

[@daydreamerz]

This makes no sense. If prophecy has error, why should we ever believe modern-day prophets? Why would God lead us into confusion? This sounds like a soft way to provide cover for prophets who get it wrong. I'm a continuationist but if you get it wrong, that's a false prophecy, not a mistake. By the way, a prophet is informed by the Holy Spirit. A teacher is informed by people. To compare the two is flawed.

[@Grace4rever]

Have you not read 1 Cor 14? Paul tells everyone to weigh prophecies/revelations given, why say that if there was no possibility of error?

[@catherinecooper8370]

Like whether a previous replier said. There is a difference between having the gift and having the office.

[@marabarrett3175]

Leading someone astray from the true Gospel is SO much worse then mocking. Rosebrough is only pointing out how people twist scripture, and sometimes you need to laugh so you don’t cry.

[@alstroemeria227again4]

I agree 100%.

[@svenwalton1332]

Excusing one sin by pointing out a personal opinion about the severity of another sin isn't a Christian or even a logical /rational argument.

[@koriclaypool9548]

@@svenwalton1332 did you miss the mockery in the Bible

[@svenwalton1332]

@@koriclaypool9548 You obviously did. We are to remove mockers from the church - scoffers are sinners... no, the Bible is very clear. The fact that you endorse sin should alarm you.

[@KristiLEvans1]

THAT part is true. Man, it’s hard to watch people get deceived by NAR false prophecies.

[@k9felinePeru]

I started dabbling into NAR about 2 years ago. I visited Brazil and US to attend conferences from them. Then the pandemic hit and it flipped my beliefs 180°. Mike Winger, Chris Roseborough and you guys have helped me stayed more centered allowing to be more charitable but having the boldness to call it out when I saw anything hyper permiate my life again. Chris has done so many reviews on bad BAD pastors that I think the zealousness in him has made him less charitable and anyone would be if you are confronting people that damn thousands if not millions of people. After all he is human. Same goes for you guys, you are WAY too charitable. I am glad you call out blatant heresy :) and because you cannot follow every pastor or prophet out there since that is not the focus of the show you are unable to check the backgrounds and deep beliefs of people. After all you are only human. I have to say I couldn't stomach Todd White. I have heard and seen to much from him and he is an example of too much charitable acceptance. All I will say is why is someone who knows kindergarten theology teaching to thousands of people?🤦 Finally, I love you three and I can see how the little overlapping in the mistical areas can cause friction. But there is category of people that signed this document that have readily accepted another spirit besides Holy Spirit and are the most popular on TV and KZbin and it's spreading like wildfire.

[@DonieleEdwards]

Amen

[@schmuelbuckman9740]

Chris hit the nail on the head. You can shuck and jive all you want, but you're wrong.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

I suppose. But that would mean Chris is wrong to. Since he has signed the statement of faith from his denomination that says the same thing as the prophetic standard right?

[@schmuelbuckman9740]

@@TheRemnantRadio It's not even close to the same prophetic standard.

[@schmuelbuckman9740]

@@TheRemnantRadio You're suggesting the two statements are similar when they're not even close. The Lutheran allows for prophecy to have been real and allows testing. If the prophecy is fake so is the prophet. Yours permits people who got it absolutely wrong to get a pass and continue to speak as if they are hearing from god

[@kimmyj1512]

This. Remnant Radio, you're obfuscating and playing word games. One who prophesies falsely is a false prophet. A true prophet never prophesies falsely. Why didn't you read out the Lutheran statement and let us judge whether it says the same as yours? Coz it doesn't. Yours sneakily tries to claim that true prophets sometimes give false prophesies and that's cool. They don't and it's not.

[@nekochan2656]

Bottom line: we cannot allow someone to continue "prophesying" without rebuke when claiming to speak for God they speak incorrectly and/or their predictions are wrong. God is never wrong. Therefore, they did not hear from God. They must be rebuked for the safety of the flock and the reputation of Christianity to nonbelievers.

[@caroleimani9754]

I agree.......

[@Faith_First001]

Amen😊

[@nicholasho2492]

When it comes to Trump prophecies, I wonder how much 'interpretation' you need to get that 'pure revelation' wrong

[@andyisarobot3849]

What’s so pathetic about the Trump prophecies is that all these people had a 50/50 shot at getting it right...either he wins or loses...and they all got it wrong 🤣🤣🤣

[@daydreamerz]

@@andyisarobot3849 That's because it wasn't prophecy. It was delivering what the itching ears wanted to hear. Plain & simple.

[@michaelcunis8329]

Some may say their prophecies were true. Trump did win. That’s another story.

[@kenroc546]

You guys got your feelings hurt and its understandable, but, its not about the gift of prophecy, its about using God's name to speak human words. That is blasphemy. These so called prophets continually give false prophecies as "thus saith the Lord". They say "God told me", "God showed me", "God will do", and then it does not come to pass. So it wasn't God but you guys say it was God but the reception was off. So the Lord God Almighty cannot speak to us bcus the reception is bad. Maybe the Lord needs to upgrade our spiritual internet connection. Cmon guys.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Exposing false prophets by mocking them is more profitable to the Church than excusing false prophets.

[@Yela927]

Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s hardly just a correction from Chris.

[@jessebartunek3195]

Sorry guys...the point about teaching has no teeth. The issue is signing your name to something that contradicts the Bible. If the document is wrong then Fix It!!! Chris is only being very clear. We should all be more clear and accurate. We are way too willing to let things slide that are contrary to the Word. I know that Chris' words are blunt but the point is the document is wrong and you guys wouldn't sign it for the same reason.

[@mikerobertson4041]

Actually, I think Rowntree stated in an earlier video that he did sign it.

[@WetPhart]

Not being mean spirited. I try to love others just as Christ commanded. But this poor attempt to justify said statement of faith and false prophecy makes me want to barf. This video just confirmed why I left the Charismatic Movement. You’ve never been hurt by prosperity preachers, or false teachers so who are you to tell others how to deal with that trauma.

[@carmenramos2953]

Chris Rosebrough has almost 63,000 followers, not hundreds of thousands. Now, Bethel and Kenneth Copeland, who are leading folks in the hundreds of thousands astray away from the God of the bible, have over 300,000 followers. Not only that, if anyone "hears from God" what do we use as measurement to know if they "hear from God, hear from the devil, or hear their own selfish desires?"!

[@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn]

Whether God is speaking "to" or "through" the prophet (or the teacher) is irrelevant; it's still God speaking. The statement, as is, literally says that God can speak errantly. Now if this is not what is meant, then revise the statement to say precisely what is meant. But the problem is that the statement was examined and presented as it was with signatures attached.

[@Yela927]

Where does this statement “literally” say that? Or do you mean figuratively from your interpretations what the statement says?

[@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn]

@@Yela927 Page 5, paragraph 3: WE REJECT the notion that a contemporary prophetic word is on the same level of inspiration or authority as Scripture or that God always speaks inerrantly through prophets today, since the Bible says we only know in part and prophesy in part (1 Cor. 13:9). It is the written Word alone that can lay claim to being “the Word of God” (2 Tim. 3:16); prophecies, at best, are “a word from the Lord,” to be tested by the Word of God. In this statement, the signers agree that it is possible for "a word from the Lord" to be erroneous.

[@Yela927]

@@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn so by your own admission it doesn’t literally say that “God can speak errantly” that’s a problem for you and Chris because you are bearing false witness. Repent.

[@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn]

@@Yela927 Did you read the paragraph? It literally says that a word from the Lord can be errant. So, no I'm not going to repent for pointing out the truth.

[@Yela927]

@@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn define literally then quote the statement… I quoted you after you said it literally says “god can speak errantly”

[@landroamer1000]

The way you word it when you introduce his video “let’s play this video” it sounds like you’re saying this is the whole video, but you cut all the scripture he uses to back up what he is saying out. You cut out his scripture and yourself use mostly quotes from other people and a little bit of scripture to make your point. Shouldn’t Gods word be the final say when it comes to judging something someone says about God, not what other authors have to say?

[@bbjjbb61]

Yes! I just commented elsewhere that quoting people about what they think is bizarre. I thoroughly dislike Roseborough but the man does know the bible.

[@soakinginscripture4151]

Excellent point!

[@JewandGreek]

Chris just said that he will respond next Thursday and it won't go well for the remnant guys.

[@TheJpgr1958]

"Chris just said that he will respond next Thursday and it won't go well for the remnant guys." Now that is going to be a good video.

[@WilliamtheWorst]

Can't wait!

[@VeryBasicBible]

@Jew and Greek Hey just wondering, did you end up listening to his response? If so, do you think he brought anything substantive, and, maybe, possibly, tried being a little nicer?

[@caroleimani9754]

@@VeryBasicBible He NEEDS to be nicer.......

[@WilliamtheWorst]

I think Chris is too nice, actually. “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” 2 Peter 2:1-3 (ESV)

[@mrissarosenthal7500]

I have found the satire Chris Rosebrough uses to expose the false teaching and false teachers helps to emphasize how false they are and expose the teachings for what they really are.

[@svenwalton1332]

I have found him to be worldly in the use of satire. It isn't Holy Spirit driven behavior. It is accuser of the brethren behavior. It is time for the powers that be to discipline him and remove him from "ministry". He is a stain on the name Christian and an embarrassment to pastors everywhere.

[@svenwalton1332]

@Carmen Navarro It is biblical to remove mockers from our midst. The Spirit led the writers of the Scripture to prescribe this very action. I hope that helps.

[@svenwalton1332]

@Carmen Navarro I don't disagree with that. The so-called "discernment ministries" are filled with accusers of the brethren, people who mock the Word of God practiced by continuationists and those who purposely misrepresent and deceptively twist what Christian leaders say and do. It is a pig sty.

[@WilliamtheWorst]

@@svenwalton1332 I'll take "dumbest comment on KZbin" for $1000.

[@svenwalton1332]

@@WilliamtheWorst Hit a nerve I see. The proper response is to repent.

[@randalwdeese]

As one who listens to hundreds of theological videos a month, I must say that this was the most balanced, heart felt approach, to another man's error in ministry that I've ever seen on video. I commend all of you men as being noble and honourable and I appreciate your noble and honorable spirits on a very delicate subject. Blessings to you all. RW Deese BTh, MDiv: (Faith Evangelical Lutheran Swminary)

[@htebazileeilsel2293]

Just read the Bible.

[@randalwdeese]

@@htebazileeilsel2293 That isn't Biblical teaching...

[@htebazileeilsel2293]

@@randalwdeese Get your doctrine from Scripture-many of these "theology broadcasts" just cause more confusion in the Body and never even dig into the Scriptures to see what they say.l "But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:13-17

[@randalwdeese]

@@htebazileeilsel2293 I'm very well grounded Scriptually... I don't fear what any teacher teaches, nor do I get confused about theological topics. I'm well educated in Greek and Hebrew, so I'm thinking that you must be transferring thoughts about yourself and applying them to me. It is rather humorous. Blessings Ephesians 4 11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-Christ- 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

[@htebazileeilsel2293]

@@randalwdeeseKnowing Greek and Hebrew doesnt automatically make you more wise in the Scriptures or more discerning- sure it can help but there's so many Greek and Hebrew scholars that have not an ounce of spiritual wisdom. You said to me that just reading the Bible isnt a biblical teaching so that's why I posted what I did...it certainly is a biblical teaching. Im just concerned about the amount of broadcasts you say you listen to and Im merely suggesting you stick to Scripture..there are TOO MANY "teachers" all saying different things. Yes, I agree, dont be thrown to and fro by every wave of doctrine, but to not be tossed around you need to really know Scripture well and study and pray for wisdom. You may think youre immune to deception but none of us are- a little leaven leavens the whole lump. All Im saying is be careful.

[@tamaraabbas3875]

So then, are there any false prophets today guys? And if so, how do we tell that they are false if they can apparently get the translation wrong, and hence apparently aren't false because of this?? What test can we possibly use??

[@postscriptciara]

Guys, I think you just unravelled your entire rebuke of Chris for being unloving when you called him a “cult leader”. 😔

[@allyy210]

If Chris was a cult leader, he would not constantly point to scripture as highest authority. I don't know HOW ON EARTH that would work for ANY cult leader 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ The whole essence of a cult leader is that they control people with their own interpretation and delusion of things and often use covert control. Chris does nothing but point to scripture taught in context. In fact, none if this is Chris's opinion, it's THE word of God he is properly teaching. Would do alot of people some good to actually listen to some of his sermons and not just his rebuke videos. He is an excellent teacher of the Word of God.

[@slidegirl6005]

He also invites and recommends the teaching and commentary of others, some not even Lutheran. That’s not how cult leaders operate- they are jealous of any attention you give to others.

[@whoa_bro9971]

Agreed! They literally have NO decent argument for what he said. Trying to find loopholes that don’t exist.

[@jaquirox6579]

Creates 1.5 hour long video solely about Chris R. Prefaces it saying they will ignore any response from Chris… because “that’s just not what Remnant Radio does”. You don’t do what? Engage in thoughtful mature discussions, with seasoned faithful teachers? Yah we see that.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Nail. Head. 🔨 It's like these guys do their driveby shooting and don't care to stick around for the police to respond. These guys are really not mature theologians. I tired of listening to them long ago.

[@jaquirox6579]

@@DefenderoftheCross I know, me too. I tried to listen to this, just to hear them out. But it was so whiney and childish… I honestly couldn’t listen anymore. And they didn’t even get to any real meat of what they thought yet, just complaining and sort of cackling like bored women, or middle school kids.

[@bruceburns405]

Exactly that.

[@jaquirox6579]

@@jeremymace8671 Do tell, how is my observing their gaggle mess of a video, and calling it exactly what it is akin to, whiney and childish? It is the adult who goes straight to the source, and tells them when they think they are being unproductive, and more gossipy then anything. And as a woman, I know exactly what a gaggle of gossiping women looks like. It looks like this. Idleness producing gossip. But please, do tell what sin I have committed here, in coming straight to them, to tell them that that’s what I think they are doing here.

[@tomtemple69]

yeah, this was a swing and a miss by remnant radio

[@auntmishie]

I am sorry, but as soon as someone says, the Lord told me, they are speaking for God. That automatically gives them an air of authority. Teachers do not claim that. It also shuts down anyone who might question what they say. If people who have signed this have an issue with the wording why didn’t they ask for the wording to be changed? It is a very simple fix. I also had a huge issue with the wording of this phrase because it also reads to me as God speaking in error. It doesn’t matter if it is to or through. I would also say that with all of these scholarly men signing this, why didn’t they bring this up? If someone like me can pick it out why didn’t they? Just because you have a bunch of letters after your name does not mean you can’t make a mistake. And this to me is a huge mistake.

[@DonieleEdwards]

This is my biggest issue with TRR. They constantly make teaching falsely the same as prophesying falsely. They are not the same. Teachers are errant but when you are saying "Thus says the Lord" this is prophecy which means God is speaking and so will be inherent. Why couldn't the statement say the "prophet" today may have not heard from the Lord correctly? Saying God does not always speak inherently today means God is the one in error.

[@danielleaknygr]

I have enjoyed watching your videos for some time even though I’m not charismatic . However- I appreciated Chris’s clear, reasoned and biblical response to this video and to the prophetic statement. It’s extremely clear and not confusing unlike what you guys are trying to do with this statement. Wish you wouldn’t have called him a cult leader- kinda lost all credibility for me with that one 😕

[@jordanfox8027]

I love you guys AND Chris, but I gotta go with him on this one. 30 minutes into your video I still hadn’t heard any Scripture, just fallacious appeals to authority. Meanwhile Chris gave a thorough biblical backing for his position. I don’t think you can argue that he misrepresented these people or took them out of context when he just read directly from the document that they attested to. These scholars should know better than to sign something with that poor wording if it didn’t truly reflect their views, not to mention to align themselves with some of the blatant false prophets who did sign the document. There are so many problems with this statement and the modern prophetic movement and we should be more worried about people claiming they travel to heaven and back and see “sneaky squid spirits” than tattling to Chris’s bosses when he (IMO rightly) calls you out. That being said, I would love to see a conversation between you guys and I appreciate you addressing this at all!

[@VeryBasicBible]

I think your criticism is well worded and charitable. Just to clear on things up- They actually have multiple videos where they do go through the scriptures for their continuationist position. This show wasn’t meant to be that, so no they didn’t bring those arguments here. But you can always check out their multiple past videos on the subject at their KZbin page.

[@reetgoodministries1273]

Wow Jordan. 2 seconds into your comment and I didn’t see any scripture therefore I side with Remnant radio on this one. See how that one works? Instead all I read was fallacious appeals to the authority of Chris to abuse and denigrate the scriptures by blatantly and obscenely misrepresenting people in order to bare false witness against them and sow discord... BUT AT LEAST HE QUOTED SCRIPTURE TO DO IT. You’re sounding a whole lot like an adherent to a cult, be careful sister. It’s easy to fall into idolising your favourite christian personality in a way that blinds you to their obvious error. I’ve been there myself. God bless you.

[@reetgoodministries1273]

I mean Slave Traders can attempt to build a scriptural case as do all the pseudo-christian cults. They can quote scripture all day long. The word of truth must be rightly divided, not abused. Chris, unfortunately, is doing the latter in this case and I’m very concerned that you don’t seem to see it. Be careful!

[@TKK0812]

When you say someone committed a fallacious appeal to authority, you actually have to substantiate the claim. They did indeed reference authorities, however they did not say “Authority X agrees with us therefor our position is true”. You are conflating deferring to an authority and presenting evidence with appealing to authority, which many people who don’t actually understand logical fallacies do. They brought up authorities *as well as cited their work* to make an argument that what Chris was saying was false. The point of this video was not an exegetical walk through a text, it was a response to what Chris said about the men who signed the document. They did in fact reference many, many scriptures throughout the video, so if you didn’t hear any, then you weren’t actually listening.

[@jeremymace8671]

I’m not defending or correcting in this comment.. I’m just going to state that they have done hours of exegesis with a variety of guests on the topic of spiritual gifts.

[@thekaibosh]

The problem with the "God inerrant, but people errant" statement is that you're saying as a supernatural gift, God cannot convey a message accurately through a prophet. Couldn't we say that the Bible is errant because it was written through human hands? Or did God supernaturally inspire the authors to write the scriptures as he sovereignly intended? Does God not have the ability to supernaturally communicate with prophets? Can human prophets thwart the will and the word of God through human errancy? Or can God sovereignly and supernaturally override human errancy?

[@KristiLEvans1]

Wow. Good point. Never thought of the “human hands” perspective.

[@theouterplanet]

What good is the prophetic statement if it’s not being used to call out the false prophets? It just serves to give anyone who signed it a free pass. Are these guys calling out Kenneth Copeland for example?

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Chris Rosebrough is correct on the standard for prophecy. I do not trust the Remnant Radio guys to rightly handle God's Word. This is not scoffing or mocking. It's the truth. I would recommend everyone scrutinize really closely what these guys say. The Remnant Radio guys have no compelling arguments against Rosebrough's positions so they simply resort to calling him mean.

[@ta2505]

Agreed. Another channel to Unsubscribe from

[@shelbiredding9242]

This was entirely annoying... So much exaggeration happening, especially from the guy in the blue polo...

[@andymachala999]

You shouldn't mock Robin Bullock? Kat Kerr? Baker? Swaggert? Seriously?

[@alexmarysaint2523]

No you should not mock them, you should rebuke them. Teachings errors is a serious matter.

[@TKK0812]

You seem shocked that they said not to do what the Bible tells us not to do.

[@keith3362]

If it was always just certain people, it might be a little different, but he says all the time the ‘whole charismatic movement’. Of course that’s because he is a cessationist (bible never says gifts ceased but whatever).

[@EAB-bz6yi]

@@alexmarysaint2523 Mocking is a form of rebuking and God used mockin and called false teachers many idol worshippers, wolves, etc. God also damned them to hell!

[@alexmarysaint2523]

@@EAB-bz6yi Insisting that you can mock people when the bible has many verses saying not to do that really is a testimony of the character of the person trying to justify it. At the end of the day you are going to have to stand before God and explain to him why you considered that is was ok to disobey him.

[@andyisarobot3849]

Fighting For The Faith has really helped me over the last couple of years struggling through things that I’ve dealt with within the Charismatic circle that I grew up in. I think it is pretty arrogant to try and say that Pastor Chris is “sitting in the seat of scoffers”, “a tree bearing bad fruit” and “a cult leader”...especially while claiming to be humble and fair towards him. The sad thing is that you called out someone the way you did who is genuinely trying to point people towards the truth while time after time excusing wolves within your own circle. It might be better to be more fair towards people that actually preach Christ and Him crucified...just sayin.

[@calebgibson55]

🤢🤢🤮🤮 Fighting for the Faith makes me like

[@TKK0812]

Humility doesn’t mean not calling someone out, nor is it arrogant. Just because Chris may preach true things, that does not excuse his character. If you look at the qualifications in the Bible for an elder, they’re almost all character qualifications except for one which is “able to teach”. The emphasis for a Biblical leader seems to be first and foremost a man of character. Good theology (he clearly has some very poor theology as well) is not a free pass to act as one pleases.

[@ElleeZee289]

I am glad that Chris helped you and I can see how that might be with your background. These Remnant Radio guys are adamantly against charismatic abuses. They just aren’t throwing the baby out with the bath water by saying there are no spiritual gifts today. I’m curious, how would you define a scoffer? I’m not sure how you can say what Chris does cannot reasonably be described as mockery or scoffing. 😔 The fact is that no teacher or leader is perfect. We need to be careful to not let our loyalty and respect for someone blind us from discerning when he does or says something that does not line up with Scripture. Ultimately, it is Jesus we are following and not Chris or Remnant Radio and we need to be careful not to make these people idols in our life, which may be the case if we aren’t willing to objectively discern their actions.

[@VeryBasicBible]

I heard Josh, the main host, at one point say “you follow your cult leader”, and though I knew he wasn’t calling Chris a cult leader I thought “Oh, that sounded bad”. Don’t worry, they weren’t actually calling him a cult leader. Just to clear things up.

[@ElleeZee289]

@@VeryBasicBible I might vaguely remember something like that too. Do you have the time stamp?

[@DefenderoftheCross]

How are we to unite as one Church when there is a group of people claiming to be one with us, yet they insist on new revelation from "prophets" when God's written is complete and sufficient, and then excuse false prophets with "good hearts" whose prophecies don't come to pass?

[@KristiLEvans1]

The prophecy standards in the Charismatic Movement are low as to be frightening, the Bible is very clear on the standard for prophetic accuracy.

[@schellfamily9837]

I am beyond thankful for the teaching of Chris Rosebrough who helped open my eyes to the extreme Bible twisting and false doctrine in the Charismatic church. I was in that false teaching for too long. The Bible commands that we mark and avoid false teachers. Was Elijah mean and critical when he mocked the prophets of Baal? Please listen to him teach. I use to think the same as you guys and I am beyond thankful that I am out of that movement! Check out his sermons on Kongvinger Lutheran Church. He is a gift to the true body of Christ for calling out these false teachers.

[@caroleimani9754]

I watched some of Chris Roseborough's sermons at Konsvinger Lutheran Church...No offense to him, but I thought the sermons were kind of boring...I used to go to a Lutheran Church (LCMS) from 1994--1996...During his sermons/homilies, the Pastor would only speak for about 15--20 minutes, beause it was liturgical, and there wasn't much time...Why was Chris "doing" a sermon for over 1 hour?

[@theouterplanet]

Disagree with you guys. If God is truly speaking a prophecy to someone His word will come out true. It won’t be lost in human translation. Instead most people speak with emotional intuition, deception, lies, etc. let’s call it out for what it truly is. What’s the point of God giving a word when the receiver can goof it up? There was no point from the beginning.

[@TKK0812]

What's the point of God giving us His written word if many faithful teachers can goof it up? This is the same awful argument atheists make when they say that if God was existed then He would be capable of communicating clearly and there wouldn't be thousands of Christian denominations who disagree on so much. This is a really, really bad argument against prophecy. Lastly, if the Bible teaches prophecy is for today, then prophecy is for today. Being incredulous or pointing out abuses of prophecy is not an argument against the true nature and happenings of it.

[@jesussaves7938]

@@TKK0812 Nope. The argument is sound, the Bible makes no case for inaccurate prophets being legitimate: (Deuteronomy-13, 18). Prophesying Falsely = False Prophet Prophesying Errantly = Errant Prophet

[@DefenderoftheCross]

@@jesussaves7938 Errant Prophet = False Prophet

[@TKK0812]

@@jesussaves7938 Saying "nope" and then saying the equivalent of "I'm right because I said so" and then listing a few verses as if they prove your point is not a rebuttal nor an argument for your position. Those passages do not at all establish what you think they do. Make sure to be consistent in your walk though and be ready to label any person who has any imperfect theology as a "false teacher". The Bible actually makes no case for *accurate* prophets being always legitimate because the point is not about whether or not they are 100% accurate, the point has always been whether or not they are leading people after other gods. No where is the Greek word pseudoprophḗtēs used in the NT to speak of someone who is mistaken in what they believe God spoke to them, rather it is always in relation to people who are attempting to lead people away from Jesus and the Christian faith.

[@jesussaves7938]

@@TKK0812 Nope. Why will people not submit to God's standards in Scripture? Yes it is a rebuttal, those chapters talk about false prophets, making clear that inaccuracy and false deity promotion are the marks of a false, presumptuous, lying, blasphemer, who was to be executed publicly with stones. Now we don't do the stoning part today, but we are told to expect false prophets and antichrist spirits. Without the proper rule of measure, you can't determine who is false. What charismatics don't like then, is that not one teacher can be listed who fits the standard. Every "tongue speaker" and "prophesyer" I have ever heard is a false teacher as well. So mental gymnastics over and around the simple, obvious standard from the Bible that would disturb their false religion are required.

[@pattyclements8801]

Chris is far from the only minister, leader, theologian to object to the "standards".

[@svenwalton1332]

And most do so due to a cessationist "belief" system that doesn't allow for honoring one of the gifts listed, given and used by the Holy Spirit in God's Word.

[@pattyclements8801]

@@svenwalton1332 I don't want to argue but from what I hear the objection is not denying the gifts but justifying many wrong prophecies. Chris did a good job of discussing this on his answer video - better than I can. Blessings to you

[@svenwalton1332]

@twen7y2 So they torpedo the accountability intended to curb that behavior? Get honest, they simply rebel against God's Word and deny the gifts, period. This response to the document (poorly written in a few places) is simply in line with their doctrine of demons. Denying the gifts and rebelling against God's Word would have gotten them kicked out of the church in Paul's day. (See Romans 16:17 ff).

[@catherinecooper8370]

@twen7y2 charismatic is a very generic term. If you think every charismatic agrees with NAR, Word of Faith and other heresies then your exposure to the various numerous sects of charismatic must be very small.

[@coffeeanddavid]

This video is a giant "Bruh," meme. You guys barely address the ultimate issue: the problematic language of the Prophetic Standards Document. This video is basically you guys patting yourselves on the back, but end up misrepresenting Chris in the same way you claim he's misrepresented you. Hilarious stuff, y'all.

[@JuliexSteadman]

..I think for constructive criticism u need to give specific examples of what u r talking about and not speak in generalities

[@coffeeanddavid]

I don't NEED to do anything. If you are looking for constructive criticism, I encourage you to use words like, "you" rather than letters like "u" or "are" rather than "r" and perhaps I'll take you more seriously. Thanks!

[@JuliexSteadman]

@@coffeeanddavid straining gnats and swallowing camels springs to mind..

[@alexburt4041]

The heart motive behind this video seems to be pride and some form of self-preservation. Kind of disappointed TBH.

[@jerardosc9534]

What makes you say that???

[@mitchschultz8335]

Your review simply reinforced my support of Chris’s concerns

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Instead of addressing the real problem of false prophets, the RR guys simply accused Chris Rosebrough of being mean.

[@jerardosc9534]

@@DefenderoftheCross no not really. they expose his doable standards and his unbiblical stance on what the gift of prophecy is.

[@The_Silver_Spider]

Yep, not one minute in and they’re already making false statements about the AALC & Chris himself. These guys are on a hiding to nothing.

[@jayfrost8654]

You can’t go and say “I think these ppl that signed the document would say this.” That’s a straw-man argument. The point is that this makes zero sense. God in His word shows us what the standard of a prophet is. Nowhere in scripture did a prophet say, “I think this is what God said... oh nevermind I miss understood.” That means God didn’t speak! Point blank period These people should call themselves teachers rather than prophets. If you’re going to use that analogy. The standards for the two are different.

[@jeremymace8671]

So if all prophets were always correct all the time, why would the Bible make a point about none of Samuels words falling to the ground? Why would we need to weigh the words given and let people pass judgement on the prophesy on Paul’s letter to the Corinthians? You realize we have the full and complete revelation of Scripture and people still make mistakes with it.

[@jayfrost8654]

@@jeremymace8671 where are you getting that 1 Samuel 3:19 is saying that his words were wrong? What verse of Corinthians are you talking about? I need more information. And if prophets are allowed to be wrong, then why do we haveDeuteronomy 18:22 “when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.”? All I wanna know is why don’t these people call themselves teachers rather than prophets.

[@tamaraabbas3875]

@@jeremymace8671 and what would that judgment be? I submit to you the judgment between the true and the false prophet.

[@solideomusical]

Please don't say *"we practice the gifts of the Spirit."* I am sure it is not intentional but it furthers a false narrative because cessationists also practice the gifts of the Spirit.

[@bbjjbb61]

Can you elaborate what you mean?

[@solideomusical]

@@bbjjbb61 Sure. When we are sloppy with our language we create two supposed 'sides' in this debate: 1) The charismatics/pentecostals who believe in and practice spiritual gifts 2) the cessationists who do not believe in or practice spiritual gifts This is a terrible misrepresentation of the cessationist position. The cessationist *believes in and practices spiritual gifts just as much as anyone else.* However, the cessastionist *does not* believe that the miraculous (signs and wonders) type gifts that we saw in the book of Acts exist today. So, both 'camps' believe in the perpetuation of spiritual gifts.

[@bennywaters5736]

Hi Guys. I'm a reformed baptist guy in Australia. I really appreciate you way you guys go about your ministry. I love how you seek work through issues from scripture, I appreciate your heart for the body of Christ and desire to see people ulimayely grow closer to Jesus. I was edified and rebuked by this video for my own spirit towards some I might disagree with.

[@ELIASMARTUS]

Good and honest word.

[@balung]

Reformed Baptist? So, you're a Hillsonger now?🇦🇺🐊👍

[@bennywaters5736]

@@balung No I'm not a Hillsonger now. This was more a comment on my theological position. I'm a Calvinistic Baptist, because I fell that this helps me makes sense of scripture. But I appreciate the manner in which these guys @remnantradio go about their ministry. And i just wanted to express my thanks. I may not 100% agree with everything they say, but the manner with which we as Christians conduct our discourse matters. And I applaud remnant radio for the grace, charity and theological robustness they seek. I love their heart for the people of God and their desire to be theological. Ultimately, they love Jesus and want to see people grow him. Grace and peace,

[@betsiecrother1443]

What a beautiful comment, I so appreciated reading this!

[@bennywaters5736]

@@betsiecrother1443 thanks

[@FatherhoodConfessions]

Not true. Chris has a wealth of knowledge and is well educated and his work in context has proven to be trustworthy. He's right. If you prophesy falsely, you're a false prophet.

[@jasonlove1103]

I agree Chris Rosebrough is the best. He has a right to call out heretics like Steven Furtick and Todd White for spreading a false gospel; maybe these two guys should listen to his videos where he exposes their blasphemy.

[@caroleimani9754]

But, Chris is mean--spirited.......

[@thetygerpulpitwithpastorglenn]

Just one more comment. I am not a cessationist. Having studied the arguments thoroughly, it came to the simple fact that the Bible says not to prevent speaking in tongues and it does not clearly state that any of the gifts will cease. That said, the modern charismatic movement and its abuse of the gifts have begun to make me reconsider. You would think that the Pentecostal/charismatic (PC) movement would have matured over all these years, but we find exactly the opposite. And it doesn't seem too be limited to the American brand of PC. Seemingly everywhere PC takes root it eventually bears this kind of fruit.

[@caroleimani9754]

Rotten roots and rotten fruits.......

[@davidturner1079]

Watching at 15:24 when you said you wanted to appeal to him. I am not choosing between former and current presidents of the evangelical theological society and a pastor. His denomination, his altar and pulpit fellowship denomination, and several other denominations soundly reject this. So does the bible. I am choosing between what the bible shows plainly in every example (never one prophet misspoke or misinterpreted or misdelivered God's word once) versus you denying all of the fact that God will continue to be the same yesterday today and forever, and will do the same if he chooses to speak through a person. Every word of God is YES and AMEN. Period. Hard STOP. If a person says "Thus says the Lord," and it doesn't happen, then it was not God that SAID that. He put words into God's mouth. He invoked God's name in slander and/or libel. Period. HARD STOP. There are examples in the bible of people who were trying to falsify prophesies, and couldn't because the Lord would not let them. Either God doesn't do that now because he doesn't care to stop people from speaking wrongly, or there's something else terribly nefarious going on there. If I say " Thus says Remnant Radio: Chris Rosebrough is right and good and true, and his words are accurate in this teaching about False prophesies." I would be lying, guilty of slander and libel, and I would be taking your name in vain. How is that NOT the same and EVEN MORE with God's word. It's not. You can't show me in scripture how it's not, without taking a verse out of context and twisting it to deny the rest of the examples in scripture. Sorry, you can't do it.

[@tamaraabbas3875]

Wholeheartedly agree with you.

[@eskews__me]

This is shameful....You guys are trying so hard to find some sort of loophole that allows today's "prophets" to be wrong...If a prophet prophesies and gets it wrong, they have not heard from God. Furthermore, if you guys think that errant men tend to misconstrue God's Words, then did Jeremiah speak incorrectly in his book? Or Ezekiel? Or Habakkuk? How come all of the true Old Testament prophets could relay God's message rightly, but todays prophets are incapable? Prophet status is not a spectrum. You're either true or false. No one in their right mind would've told Isaiah "Hmmm...only part of what you said was right." 1 Thessalonians 5 makes it clear that the opposite of true prophecy is evil aka sin. "Do not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil." (v. 20-22) And 1 John 4:1 explains that messages, which aren't from God, are delivered by FALSE prophets, not by innocent teachers who made an oopsie.

[@AlexandraNMorgan]

It seems very clear to me that the statement never meant that God speaks errantly but that they are questioning that it's God who is speaking through these prophets. What this guy is saying is that any Tom or Jane can claim to be a prophet and how dare anyone question whether or not it's coming from God

[@mikerobertson4041]

I forced myself to listen to a large portion of this and hand it to the RR guys! They gave it the old college try, but when you are trying to defend a heretical document, well you're fighting an uphill battle, and it ain't gonna work. I once heard Sam Storms say that cessationists cannot produce one verse of Scripture that says definitively that the gifts have ceased. And I'm still waiting for someone to produce one verse of Scripture that states definitively that God speaks in error, or that prophets can prophesy in error. Thank God, for men like Chris Rosebrough who still stand upon and rightly divide the Word of Truth. We need more men like Chris!

[@ministryformama4111]

I can say from my own personal experience as a former listener of Fighting for the Faith (about 6-7 years ago) that it did indeed take a toll on my heart. I found myself developing a mocking and condescending attitude towards those in a different “camp”. I was quick to judge anyone that had any belief different than what I thought to be the correct one. It also developed an idea in my mind that charismatics were the “enemy” and all wolves in sheep’s clothing, which was a very unfair assessment. While I welcome and appreciate ministries and individuals that seek to protect believers from error and dangerous teachings, I have also seen in myself how it can become a slippery slope into believing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Again, this is all my personal experience. Side note: I ended up marrying one of those “scary” charismatics and I am now myself a Spirit-filled, tongue talking and singing believer that still exercises discernment from God’s word.

[@zap0918]

Which tongue do you speak?

[@ministryformama4111]

@@zap0918 That's for the Lord to know. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 14:2

[@zap0918]

@@ministryformama4111 This is a misunderstanding of what scripture says about that gift. In all instances of this in scripture, the "tongue" was a known language. In fact, it lists the particular languages at Pentecost in Acts. The gift is for the propagation of the Gospel of Christ Jesus. And, someone must be present and able to understand what is being spoken. It's not a Gospel salvation issue, unless you state a person must speak in tongues to have salvation.

[@ministryformama4111]

@@zap0918 Can you explain what the proper interpretation would be? If it were a known language, then why would it say “no one understands him” and “he utters mysteries”? This verse also isn’t referring to Pentecost, which I fully understand was known languages. I very much understand your position and belief in tongues, because that is what I also used to believe. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@zap0918]

@@ministryformama4111 Before I dive off into textual teaching, I would like to know why you think that God, Who is the Creator of order in the universe, would command people to speak in sounds that cannot be known? If fact, sounds that appear to be gibberish? You do realize how this appears do you not? Even Angels have a known language. And, also, if it is a gift from God, then explain to me why charismatic Churches must teach the congregants how to speak it? Also, explain why Paul forbids it to take place in a Church gathering if no one can interpret the language that is being spoken? Having asked those things, give me a bit to prepare an answer for you. Thanks.

[@postscriptciara]

It was unwise and irresponsible of otherwise sound biblical scholars to align themselves with heretics (not an insult, I mean the definition of the word) and sign this very poorly worded and unnecessary document. If they felt a desire to support the creation of a statement like this, they should have absolutely insisted on deconstructing and reconstructing the entire statement to create a biblically sound, God glorifying, Body edifying version which leaves little or no room for theological and doctrinal error and abuse. If the purpose of this statement, and of signing it was clarity and unity, it has failed so miserably and I see it causing so much distraction from truth in its future that it causes me to suspect that the idea for it was planted by the Spirit of Antichrist. I’m so shocked by its poor wording, lack of foresight, and absence discernment that I can’t believe so many sound biblical teachers who dedicate their lives to teaching God’s Word and even fixing issues like this document put their names to it. I feel that deception and destruction will be its legacy.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Amen! I cannot believe Grudem signed this thing. He KNOWS the standard

[@Dave77220]

Sorry, I don't agree with your arguments. 1) You guys seem to be arguing that the Prophetic Standards Statement meant to say that God spoke inerrantly to these "prophets" but then they miscommunicated the word they received so it became errant. But then you are deflecting the accusation of believing in a god that lies to believing in a god that is incapable. Because you are saying that God is incapable of always speaking clearly through modern day "prophets". I don't buy that. God is truth and he never lies, but God is also Almighty God and Omniscient God. If God intends to communicate his words through someone, is he so powerless that he cannot ensure that his word is transmitted faithfully ? Why would God even bother to speak to a "prophet" if he knows his words will be distorted ? Scripture demonstrates that God was able to speak inerrantly through the prophet Balaam and bless Israel, even though Balaam really wanted to curse them for money. If anyone had the motivation to distort a word received from God it was Balaam, but God did not permit him to say anything other than what God told him to say. If God is capable of transmitting his word though the mouth of a donkey, then he is also capable of transmitting his word through a man, however imperfect and corrupt he may be. 2) If you think Pastor Chris was uncharitable, then what would you say about the Apostle Paul ? Here is what Paul said of those preaching a false gospel "As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!". Wow, how mean of him! Preaching a god who is incapable of faithfully transmitting his word through imperfect vessels, is preaching a false god who is not the God of the Bible, and it is on the same level as preaching a false gospel. So Pastor is correct in calling out the signatories, and to my recollection Pastor Chris didn't actually call a curse on anyone. 3) You keep building strawmen. For example you raise the question : have you ever taught something you changed your mind on ? That is totally irrelevent - has Pastor Chris ever claimed that his teaching is directly inspired by God (other than the quotations from the Bible) ? 4) Do you realize that you are laying the foundation for undermining Scripture itself? Why can't your arguments be applied to Scripture itself ? If God can allow his word to be mistransmitted by modern day "prophets" how can we be sure that the same did not happen in the transmission of the Scriptures? God has not changed. 5) You are comparing the statement from the AALC statement of faith "The only prophecy that can claim inerrancy is the prophecy of Scripture itself" with the statement from the Prophetic standards statement "WE REJECT the notion that a contemporary prophetic word is on the same level of inspiration or authority as Scripture or that God always speaks inerrantly through prophets today...". But these are not at all equivalent. The first refers to "prophecy" which includes false prophecy and it does not say that God is the author or initiator behind this prophecy. However, the second specifically names "God" as the author or initiator of errant prophecies.

[@Loris_channel]

You are exactly right. The difference between the biblical prophets and these men today claiming to be prophets is that the biblical prophets always preached law to convict people of their idolatry and wickedness telling them that Yahweh is slow to anger and return to him for the forgiveness of sins. Most of the men today claiming that God is speaking to them outside of scripture sound a lot different. If you listen to them they almost never preach any law and gospel. They often sound like fortune tellers giving a cold reading. There is an element of of prophecy that is telling the future...because we have rebelled against God we have earned his wrath. Christ is going to return in glory and we will all have to stand before him and give an account for ourselves. Jeremiah warns that false prophets will fill your head with nonsensical dreams and visions and tell you that everything is going to be alright and never tell you to turn from your sins. The scripture is sufficient!

[@ElleeZee289]

@@Loris_channel by saying “scripture is sufficient” it sounds like what you mean is that prophecy is not for today. That is fine if that is what you believe. It’s actually a secondary issue and something we shouldn’t argue about. There are cases that can be made on both sides and we shouldn’t take the leap to say that anyone who believes that prophecy meant to be active today is not a Christian. It is the abuses of prophecy that should be condemned, not people who sincerely follow Jesus and have a different opinion on a secondary issue.

[@TKK0812]

1.Why would God bother to speak through His written word if He knows it will be distorted? You're not comprehending what's being said. I pointed this out elsewhere but you're making the same trite argument atheists make when they say that if God existed, we should expect Him to be able to speak clearly through the words in scripture and that there wouldn't be so much disagreement in the body of Christ if He had that ability. You're still conflating revelation with interpretation with application. God and His words are perfect. The ways in which we handle and apply them are not always. 2. I think you're simply equivocating here. A failed prophecy like "Donald Trump will win the election" is not the same as preaching a false Gospel. This is a rather absurd comparison to make. You keep going back to "God not being able to speak clearly". If you have watched this entire episode, then you absolutely need to go back and re-listen because you seemingly understood very little of what they were saying. These people absolutely need to repent for their failed prophecies, but it's nothing like a false Gospel. 3. That's not what a strawman is. They aren't propping up a poor representation of Chris' argument to then debunk, rather they are raising their own objections and putting forth their own argument. Most charismatics, including my church body, don't believe their prophecies are inerrant (you're still conflating revelation and interpretation and application). They believe God speaks and when He does, they need to pray and interpret what they believe He is saying, and that it will never conflict with His written word, and that it should first be weighed and tested by elders and leaders. You have a very distorted view of teaching if you don't believe that teachings are directly inspired by God because that is literally what the scriptures are being God breathed. By your standard, if Chris or you have even one false thing you believe/teach about any scripture or truth revealed by God in His word, can we now call you a false teacher? His word is alive and active, therefor the scriptures are not just what He spoke, but what He is speaking currently. It's interesting that Paul says we all may prophesy but James says that not many of us ought to be teachers. 4. You actually are the one undermining scripture because we are commanded by Paul to earnestly desire the spiritual, especially that we may prophesy. They literally did apply their arguments to scripture itself and that's the point, is that God speaks infallibly but that we are fallible. You're the one not making the connection. 5. I don't know enough about the AALC to comment on this.

[@TKK0812]

@@Loris_channel First, it's absolutely and unequivocally false that prophets "always preached law to convict people of their idolatry and wickedness". Many, many prophecies were didact in nature or spoke to the promises of God for who He is and what hope and encouragement could be found in Him both immediately and futuristically. You don't get to define what prophecy is, scripture does. 1 Cor 14:3 says specifically that the one who prophesies speaks to the people for their upbuilding, encouragement, and consolation. Second, pointing out abuses as a reason to dismiss prophecy would be like pointing out abuses in teaching the word of God in order to dismiss teaching. No one is saying to let these people off the hook for their failed prophecies or that there is no need for repentance, in fact it's just the opposite. Lastly, saying the scripture is sufficient defeats your own premise because the scriptures command us to earnestly desire to prophesy. Unless you have a Biblical argument as to why their is no longer prophecy functioning amongst the people of God, then to say "scripture is sufficient" as an argument against it is meaningless.

[@Dave77220]

​@@TKK0812 Thanks for your response 1. I wasn't referring to his written word, but the word received by the prophet. I was referring to the idea that if God spoke to a prophet but his word was not transmitted correctly by the prophet then we would never get to hear what God said in the first place, so given that God is omniscient why should he bother? The distortion of the written word happens by false teachers who take the inerrant word of Scripture and twist it or misinterpret it. 2. I'm agreeing with Pastor Chris in that according to their statement they are believing in a different god than the God of the Bible 3. You're correct in that I misnamed it as a strawman. I should have called it a category error, since errors in teaching are not in the same category as errors in prophecy. 4. You are not responding to my point about undermining the Scripture, and you are misrepresenting me since I said nothing about 1 Corinthians 14:1. I'm perfectly OK with this verse of Scripture as well as verses 3 and 4 which explain the purpose of prophecy in the church. I did not deny this passage of Scripture nor undermine it.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

If you guys are forcing a church split, I'll most certainly side with Chris Rosebrough because he represents Christ better than the guys at Remnant Radio do.

[@abhilashchd]

Interpretation of revelation is different than giving new revelation.

[@VeryBasicBible]

Agreed

[@abhilashchd]

RR whole critique was based on word "through" on how we can get interpretation of Bible wrong so people giving false prophecy can be wrong because they are doing interpretation. Not sure what prophets they are listing to but all the ones I have seen are claiming direct revelation and thus presenting word to word what God is saying.

[@michealhunter7924]

hog wash

[@VeryBasicBible]

@@abhilashchd If I'm understanding you rightly, I actually agree that most people are not just interpreting but are saying "Thus says the Lord", or think whatever they say is prophecy. Yes, that is a problem. The whole "sometimes prophets interpret what they said wrongly" does happen but really what you say seems to get all the press. And we should call it out.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Listening to these guys from RR, one thing is sure. The Church is hopelessly divided. They excuse false prophets in hopes of promoting their continuationism. They have weak theological arguments to respond to Chris Rosebrough, so they resort to accusing him of being mean. I do not feel like I have anything in common with these guys. Their "Christianity" looks and feels severely different from the one I believe is Scriptural. Only Jesus can unite us.

[@codywormy6920]

“Gods word is spoken inerrant but once it comes out of prophets it can be errant.” The prophets of the Bible never spoke errantly, how do they no see how ridiculous that sounds. Chris is spot on.

[@deborahcatalano261]

Thanks, guys. This was helpful. I hadn’t heard of Chris before but, as a lawyer, I found it odd that he left out the part about through prophets. Thank you for your gentle and meek spirits. I got saved listening to Christian radio in the 90’s. If it were not for your program I would not know much about church history. Also your 8 hour prophetic program was great!

[@patrickmccarthy1121]

Saying that someone is choosing between leaders of an evangelical society and a KZbinr is a false dilemma fallacy and an appeal to authority fallacy all in one. Also, tell me where is says that after the Canon of scripture is complete that prophets will still be around but will suck at their job.

[@elizabeth01223]

Thank you!! I love your show and I love your hearts! My husband and I both came from charismatic abuse and the pendulum was swinging way over to the other side until we found shows like yours with people like Josh Mike and Miller that have helped us see that there is a safe place in the middle. What you shared today was very clear and obviously done in love, WELL DONE!

[@Loris_channel]

So are they saying that God speaks to people but he doesn’t have the ability to speak clearly?

[@BuildingApologetics]

I think they are affirming what Paul says: 1 Corinthians 13:12: or now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. Do you believe the scriptures are the word of God? Do you believe the scriptures are clear? Do you believe honest Christians can misinterpret scripture? If the answer to all of those is yes, then it seems the question has been answered.

[@Me-zt6wl]

RR has a video on misconceptions on prophecy, maybe you should watch it to see exactly what they think on this matter.

[@TKK0812]

No, that’s not at all what they’re saying. Can you give the time stamp where they allude to God not having the ability to speak clearly? This is literally the same trite argument atheists make when they try to say that if God had the ability to communicate clearly through His word then there wouldn’t be so many denominations.

[@VeryBasicBible]

They are mainly just saying that sometimes prophets get things wrong. How the wrongness comes about as the person is prophecying or says they are/have prophecied, that we chalk up to the prophet and make educated-from-scripture guesses as to why they where wrong. But no, we'd never say God is not clear. Even if we have this all wrong, or even if it seems logically we'd be saying God was not clear: whatever the case, we'd never say this but only deny it.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Did you hear us say that?

[@tedrowell659]

It has nothing to do with titles or crowd sizes/followers.. It has to do with what God's word says. The prophetic statement is in line with n to the word of God or it isn't. Based on what it says in the statement, it does not line up with the word of God. This is pretty cut and dry really. Is the bible wrong?

[@BuildingApologetics]

I don't think that is the issue at hand. Yes, it is absolutely important to see if the Bible teaches or rejects the statements in the prophetic statements. That is absolutely essential to determine if someone is to decide whether or not to sign it. Rather the question here is a bit different: Does the prophetic statement say anything that rises to the level of heresy, idolatry, or blasphemy? Since, as I'm sure you can agree, we can be wrong without being heretics. It is entirely possible that the prophetic statement is both wrong and orthodox.

[@Window4503]

@@BuildingApologetics The fact that a so-called prophetic statement is wrong IS itself the blasphemy.

[@bencooper8668]

Wow. What Michael R shared at the end re scoffing/mocking has me feeling that 2 edged sword. As one who comes from a cessationist background, most of my friends are cessationist as well, and I have without a doubt been guilty of this, ESPECIALLY toward those who practice the gifts. In the last year I have come to agree that continuationism is more consistent biblically and is in keeping with Church history, largely thanks to this show. It (mocking, scoffing) absolutely comes down to arrogance. Michael hit the nail on the head with his commentary reference. It’s (in some ways) a bit more understandable for a young man first encountering the doctrines of Grace to demonstrate this type of behavior, ie “cage-stage.” But the more one grows in the knowledge of the depths of their own sin, the more charitable we ought to be to others. It is saddening to see this behavior from a man who is presumably leading a congregation that is in part made up of young and impressionable minds. Bonhoeffer gets some things wrong, especially in his final letters. He gets it right when it comes to community, though, and he was a Lutheran after all so I think this quote is fitting. This is from his book “Life Together” and the chapter on service.... “Not considering ones self wise, but associating with the lowly, means considering oneself the worst of sinners... Even Paul said of himself that he was the foremost, I.e., the worst of sinners (1 Tim 1:15). He said this at the very place in scripture where he was speaking of his ministry as an apostle. There can be no genuine knowledge of sin that does not lead me down to this depth. If my sin appears to me to be in any way smaller or less reprehensible in comparison with the sins of others and I am not yet recognizing my sin at all. My sin is of necessity the worst, the most serious, the most objectionable. Christian love will find any number of excuses for the sins of others. Only for my sin is there no excuse whatsoever.” May we all be more charitable to one another. I thank God for the work that he is doing through you men. You may never know how impactful it has been in many of our lives. Not just from a Theology point of view, but as Christians who love Christ AND His church. Thank you for the work that you are doing and will continue to do. Blessings

[@michaelrowntree2005]

Thx for the encouragement! Glad it blessed u. Great Bonhoeffer quote. Blessings 🙏

[@betsiecrother1443]

Amen!!! Thank you so much for writing this comment!!

[@lilmisspeace]

Thank you for your comment and for adding the book from which you have quoted! It is a wonderful point made eloquently.

[@vngelicath1580]

People often rejected the charismatic movement in place of cessationism when they "move out of" various excesses of Evangelicalism into more historic forms of Protestantism (especially the Young, Restless and Reformed types)... However, I think with the abuses of the Charismatic extremes considered, it becomes clear that Cessationism simply isn't Patristic. It's ironic, they discover cessationism (in Calvinism most often) in a quest to get more in touch with the Historic Church, but eventually have to return to Continuationism if they honestly want to be consistent with the oldest of the Church's Tradition: which frankly looks a lot like High Liturgical, High Sacramental, Charismaticism.

[@incredulouskirk]

I watch Rosebrough's vids because I've learned more from him than I ever did in 17 YEARS of going to charismatic churches. Nothing against you guys or anything but I've had enough of charismatics. I know you've called out some buffoonery among them and I respect you for that. ✌

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Thanks man, I want to lock arms with you on fighting the wackiness. Also I’m sorry that the vast majority of Charismatics chose not to police their own movement 17 years ago. There is no excuse for the mess that has been made.

[@incredulouskirk]

@@TheRemnantRadio 👍

[@caroleimani9754]

@@TheRemnantRadio And they HAVE really made a mess...Some of it reproaches the Name of Christ...(unfortunately).......

[@jessethomas3979]

I've been listening to Chris from time to time for years... Here's my opinion of this response: First, I think the wording of the document is horrible in the place he mentions. Fact is, the most sound people who signed the document didn't mean to call God a liar, but the grammar does lean the way Chris interprets it. Now you may not say God got it wrong, but there are a whole bunch of people with much larger followings than all the "sound guys" put together who will go that route and may well use the intellects behind this doc as justification. Secondly, he's not talking about all charismatics being blasphemers, only the ones who signed a document which he believes says that God gets it wrong sometimes. The issue is not N.T. prophesy itself, but the words of the document. Thirdly, people in big positions do get it wrong. You've got heavy weights in both camps. One camp is wrong, so a bunch of heavy weights are wrong. The reason he uses terms like idolaters is because they signed a document which (he believes) says God could lie. Fourthly, I'll confess I agree with you on the last point and am guilty too of enjoying his mockery of the false prophets. Fifthly, I have seen him tear up when scripture is botched by people. He's not as cold as you guys made him out to be. I agree with you in that he should love the false prophets more and be more kind, but as much as I know him, he's trying to do the loving thing. You made it seem like he would enjoy their destruction, like he hates them, and I don't think he does.

[@BuildingApologetics]

I think the grammar could go either way, but it is certainly reasonable to come to the conclusion that Chris reached about its meaning. However, it is unreasonable to assume that every person who signed it believes that God is a liar or that they all agree with Chris' interpretation of the statement. Even a modicum of research would dispel that notion. So here Chris is either knows that some who signed the statement don't affirm that God can err, in which case he is dishonest, or he is not willing to do any real research into what people believe before he condemns them. Either way, it is a disgraceful thing to do, but hopefully he repents of this. That probably is true that he truly cares, and that probably would be a good thing for them to point out, although I enjoyed that they mentioned how much they love the way Chris used to be. I rarely watch his videos since, even though I agree with him on the ones I've seen, I have been disgusted by his attitude time and time again. I think they are correct that he must be avoided so that we don't emulate the way he treats people. No one is one-dimensional, but some are unqualified to be teachers.

[@theologymatters5127]

You know, I think Chris Rosenthal is the one who makes himself look cold. I agree with Josh, we shouldn't pretend to not see these things.

[@ElleeZee289]

Read within the context, Chris’s interpretation was not reasonable, especially in relation to the huge accusation he made. There was very little evidence that he sought to understand the intended meaning. If he is going to make such a huge accusation against so many people, he should put some thought into it. He solely plucked a sentence out of context and focused only on that which would make a sensational story.

[@theologymatters5127]

@@ElleeZee289 Bang on Estelle. 💜

[@JewandGreek]

Anybody with an IQ above room temperature could understand what that statement meant. You would have to be willfully ignorant to interpret it to mean that God can speak errantly.

[@brandyengle2478]

Really appreciate the spirit in which you guys do these videos. With everything in our world today so polarized and divisive, we need more of this. People have forgotten how to have a true discussion. God Bless you guys.

[@gregncarir7224]

I appreciate Fighting for the Faith. I was raised in the pentecostal/charismatic movement. There is a lot of nonsense and I like that he does compare messages of many "pastors" to what the Word actually says. We left the last church we were at after 13 years because it was becoming give a "feel good" message and encourage "planting your seed" to get your "blessing" type church. They slowly had become a culturally pleasing church that chose a few select verses to support what they were saying (and they were taken out of context) and quit teaching the True Word of God. I do think that pastors who support the prophecy craze, is problematic for people who think they can live any way they want because it is all about God loving them. No repentance, no Gospel. I do not necessarily like the prophecy bingo, but I do like his sarcastic wit.

[@caroleimani9754]

Where does the Bible say that a "sarcastic wit" is one of the fruit/s of the Spirit?

[@lespaul1803]

Are you admitting that you tattle-taled on Chris to the LCMS? LOL. We don’t like that he called us heretics, so you called him the heretic! 🤣

[@ab5879]

The argument that God does speak inerrently, but his prophets do not necessarily speak His words inerrently seems like a very slippery slope with potentially major implications. If that is true, how can we then be certain that the bible is inerrent?

[@greatestoftheseco7473]

That’s exactly what I said to my husband. It doesn’t make sense.

[@michaelrowntree2005]

Acts 21:4

[@ab5879]

@@michaelrowntree2005 Doctrine should be taken from on topic passages. This passage is not teaching on prophecy. The passages that DO teach on prophecy are clear about the one who claims to be a prophet and speaks wrongly. Furthermore, we are never told what the Spirit revealed to the disciples in Tyre. That revelation is the prophecy. We may infer that it was the same revelation given to Agabus in Caesarea in verses 10-12. In which case you can see that what was stated in verse 4 is simply the reaction of the disciples who recieved the revelation, not the revelation itsself. They had the same reaction in Caesarea. They did not speak God's message wrongly, they had a selfish, earthly loving reaction to it.

[@VeryBasicBible]

If the Bible is inerrant but can be mistaught by teachers, that can lead to a slippery slope. If the gospel is true, but could be easily seen as "fairy tales", that could lead to a slippery slope. If God's called pastors could mispastor the flock, that'd lead to a slippery slope. All I'm pointing out is, is that the slippery slope thing isn't a reason for something being wrong. I see you have verses and reasoning from the scripture. But slippery slope logic doesn't work, that's all.

[@ab5879]

@@VeryBasicBible I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I took the channel's argument to its logical conclusion: if prophets can speak errantly, and prophets wrote the bible, the bible can be errant. You stated possible outcomes of misinterpretations of the bible.

[@ryanr5139]

Rev. Roseborough ain’t wrong tho

[@lilmisspeace]

He is so wrong it's sad.

[@carmenramos2953]

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not PROPHESY in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23

[@carmenramos2953]

@Egleath Shelishyah was the comment addressed to me, telling me to shut up? Because if it is to me, I would say to you, "I am texting." 🤪 Did you realize that? Sigh. I guess not since when you are blind, you are blind. And when you are rude, well, it shows. By the way, the American way to say it is, "Be quiet." 🙏

[@tamaraabbas3875]

Exactly. Pretty clear Scripture there about the existence of false prophets.

[@bigsidrealprisontalk9173]

Chris embarrassed y’all

[@CloutDigital]

“but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with GENTLENESS AND RESPECT” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:15

[@bruceburns405]

Hypocrisy much? Chris is mean, and divisive, and a pharisee... Then to his defenders: 1:23:55 "I don't know why people want to do this with their cult leaders..." Maybe you'll get lucky and the part of the Gospels where Jesus says you will be judged by the standards you use was something God said right and the author of God's word simply misunderstood....

[@KristiLEvans1]

**Wayne Grudem** signed this statement??? 😰😱💔. I read that statement. WHAT HAPPENED TO GRUDEM???

[@ELIASMARTUS]

By the way I could feel the Love of God for Chris coming through you guys. Let all things be done in LOVE. You both hit the mark plus you gave TRUTH to a brother. It is up to him to receive it.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

🤦

[@louisacapell]

You are lost

[@benshirk882]

Thank you guys for what you do! I have been so impacted by your ministry. Your faithfulness to the word and to Jesus Christ is touching and powerful. Keep doing what you are doing! Bless you guys!

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Thanks Ben. That means a lot.

[@babydjakadonna8507]

Good job in approaching this with humility and grace for another Brother in Christ. I used to watch Chris and he did help me with discernment for over the top teachers of heresy. In the last year my heart and spirit just couldn't take the negativity of his tone in which he delivered his messages. You're correct when saying to guard your heart ❤

[@sibusisokhanyile5045]

Who is the final authority, God or Wayne Grudem?

[@jerardosc9534]

That’s like me asking you who is the final authority Chris Roseborough or God???

[@LAURIE-zg3ec]

I was shocked to see that Wayne Grudem signed the document regarding errant prophecy, when he is the author of Systemic Theology that many reference as THE source I am grateful to Chris Rosebrough for bringing this out for all of us to be warned of. Scripture has to remain THE source- period.

[@brettoutside]

Not on board with you guys on this one your off Chris is right harsh but right as truth can be

[@EAB-bz6yi]

God mocks the blaspheme: [Psa 2:4-5 NKJV] 4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision. 5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure: [Psa 37:12-13 NKJV] 12 The wicked plots against the just, And gnashes at him with his teeth. 13 The Lord laughs at him, For He sees that his day is coming.

[@Window4503]

This whole issue wouldn’t exist if everyone simply viewed the written Word of God as sufficient for all of our spiritual needs. I’ve belonged to both sides of the issue at various periods of my life. There’s a good reason I don’t buy into the whole “prophecy/hearing God is for today” stuff. Inevitable blasphemy with limp coverups is one of many reasons.

[@timothymournighan7425]

The real mockers are the ones mocking the Holy Spirit.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Exactly...like Robin "No, I Ain't Billy Ray Cyrus" Bullock, Kat Lady Kerr, Kent "Always Winter and Never" Christmas, Fraud White the Leg Lengthener, Exactly...like Robin "No, I Ain't Billy Ray Cyrus" Bullock, Kat Lady Kerr, Kent "Always Winter and Never" Christmas, Fraud White the Leg Lengthener, Bilge Ohnson of Bethel and his sidekick Kris "Littles gods" Vallotton, Stacey "Head Spinner" Campbell, Sid "It's Supernatural Chicken" Roth, Steve "False Prophet List" Shultz, Jennifer "Sneaky Wild Ass Squid" LeClaire, Shawn "Where's My iPad?" Bolz, Kim "I Said Trump First" Clement, John and Carol "Are So!" Arnott, Randy "Demonic Impartation" Clark, James "Has the" Goll, Bill Hamon "Rye", Cindy "Basta" Jacobs, Patricia "Extreme Pathetic" King, Rick "If You Can't Beat Her" Joyner, Chuck "Koo Koo Banana Town" Pierce, Paula "Girl Can't Help It" White-Cain, Brian "No, Really I've Got Passionate Translation Experience" Simmons, Dutch "Three" Sheets "To The Wind"...et al. Kris "Littles gods" Vallotton, Stacey "Head Spinner" Campbell, Sid "It's Supernatural Chicken" Roth, Steve "False Prophet List" Shultz, Jennifer "Sneaky Wild Ass Squid" LeClaire, Shawn "Where's My iPad?" Bolz, Kim "I Said Trump First" Clement, John and Carol "Are So!" Arnott, Randy "Demonic Impartation" Clark, James "Has the" Goll, Bill Hamon "Rye", Cindy "Basta" Jacobs, Patricia "Extreme Pathetic" King, Rick "If You Can't Beat Her" Joyner, Chuck "Koo Koo Banana Town" Pierce, Paula "Girl Can't Help It" White-Cain, Brian "No, Really I've Got Passionate Translation Experience" Simmons, Dutch "Three" Sheets "To The Wind"...et al.

[@The_Silver_Spider]

The only reason this document exists in the first place is because the Pentematics are too proud to admit they’re wrong, repent & step down. It’s a pathetic attempt to save face which completely fails any serious scrutiny.

[@drummermajor]

The full quote from the AALC is "The only prophecy that can claim inerrancy is the prophecy of Scripture itself (II Peter 1:20,21). The gift of prophecy as rightly received today neither supersedes nor contradicts the Word of God - it uplifts it." This is not the same as rejecting the notion " that God always speaks inerrantly through prophets today" Following the AALC's statement consistently would result in them identifying an errant prophecy as not a word from God nor the result of the gift of prophecy rightly recieved today. Don't know how you guys conflated these two statements.

[@davidturner1079]

These guys don't seem like idiots. It's not hard to see that difference. There is only one conclusion to this very valid point.

[@WilliamEllison]

The bible is pretty clear and Chris Rosebrough is right.

[@caroleimani9754]

He just goes about it in the wrong way.......

[@jlhanson81]

Josh, Rowntree, Miller…..This is a very well done video. I’m always thankful for the way you all approach matters such as these, with loving heart for Christian brothers and sisters. I’m glad y’all did this video, and I think it’s a good call to not do another response video on this. Thank you all for taking the time to put together a thorough, well thought out, informative video.

[@gregwill500]

Great video guys but one thing i think you guys got wrong is saying the AALC statement and Prophetic statement affirm same thing. " The only prophecy that can claim inerrancy is the prophecy of Scripture itself (II Peter 1:20,21). The gift of prophecy as rightly received today neither supersedes nor contradicts the Word of God - it uplifts it." This statement doesn't make room for errant prophecy? It just says it needs to agree with God's word? Perhaps I missed another AALC statement you are referring to? I don't think deny's the gift of prophecy. I just think he may deny is doesn't really seem to be evident in popular charismatic expression - or rather, the false, errant kind of prophecy is far more abundant.

[@theologymatters5127]

The prophetic statement isn't affirming errancy. I thought they explained that very well

[@gregwill500]

​@@theologymatters5127 The prophetic statement makes room for errancy, on the part of the prophet, and by the way it is worded, includes God as a partner in this errancy, as God speaks through the prophet. The way RR clarified it was thus: God speaks inerrantly, but a prophet my err and misunderstand, mishear or mis speak in translating the revelation. So the revelation is true, but the prophetic expression can be flawed. The most obvious problem with this is that it creates loophole for a prophet to be unaccountable for their words. Its like cosmic broken telephone. The AALC statement is much clearer, affirming that modern prophecy must agree with God's word but never supersede it. The implication being if it doesn't. match this..it is false. The prophetic statement doesn't do this well enough - instead it simply creates space for the prophet to "get it wrong sometimes" because it's "not on the same level as scripture". This is a low bar and is a foot in the door for false prophets to continue to spew their nonsense and then just issue apology videos later, all humble-like.

[@theologymatters5127]

@@gregwill500 I agree with almost everything you just said. The Remnant Radio agrees with almost everything you said. They said it in both video's addressimg the statement and in many other shows they've done. We are to be plugged into a local body to keep us accountable for our behavior. We all agree that people who prophesy should be accountable for the words they give. I wish the same was true for Chris. I wish he had someone to keep him from abusing people in the way he does.

[@gregwill500]

Theology Matters yeah, I’m not a fan of Chris’s delivery all the time, especially the prophecy bingo stuff. But I do wonder at the version of Chris that RR would like to see…and that version seems somehow neutered and toothless. His rough around the edges demeanour rubs some people the wrong way and he has overstated the error of people signing the P statement. But my view of the statement is that it is a weak and feeble attempt to wrist slap the charismatic excesses. Honestly, it’s pointless. It’s tokenism at best. I agree with Chris on his summation of it, but not the wholesale denouncement of its signatories. It’s a low bar standard dressed up in charismatic hand wringing piety.

[@theologymatters5127]

@@gregwill500 I was actually impressed with this statement as being a good starting point. You see, now that the statement has signatures of some great pastors with good theology, they can hold the other pastors who don't practice such good theology to account. For example, Bill Johnson signed it...if he gets out of hand, making strange prophesy, he can be held accountable. You see, people such as Chris complain about charismatics being able to go willy nilly. They make an attempt to walk in greater accountability and Chris still finds fault. Looking at how Chris deals with disagreements and RR dealt with theirs, I'm so proud to call thes RR guys brothers

[@sling5257]

At 1:23:57…..”I don’t understand why Christians want to do this with their cult leaders”….in reference to Chris. Really? A cult leader?? Nice! Coming from the same guy that whimpered, complained and got misty-eyed over Chris’ “tone” and style. Who’s slandering whom?

[@VeryBasicBible]

When I heard Josh say that, I thought “oh no, that’s gonna be misunderstood!”. I promise you he was not calling Chris a cult leader. Sometimes when speaking you say things poorly and they get misunderstood.

[@greatestoftheseco7473]

Exactly! Pot, meet kettle.

[@sling5257]

@@VeryBasicBible I'm not sure I would call that a misunderstanding. Assuming English is Josh's native language in what scenario does cult leader not mean, well, cult leader?

[@VeryBasicBible]

​@@sling5257 If RC Sproul said, "And that's why calvinism is wrong", in context and with grammar that really really made it seem like he was saying exactly that- we'd be like "Wait, he MUST have meant something else", because we know the man. If Rosebrough played a clip of Copland, then said "I love the work these prosperity preachers are doing. They're bringing many to right doctrine in Christ", and he didn't go on to clarify anything, one might be super confused, but we'd know he couldn't have meant what it seems he meant. Those are just random examples I made up, they could be nitpicked, but I think you get my point. I know Josh was trying to speak more generally, it was bad timing, poor choice of words at that moment, he didn't clarify before his thoughts came out, etc. Why do I know this? Because I know Josh and I know he'd not call Chris a cult leader, whether he was speaking in factual terms or (especially not) speaking pejoratively about him.

[@sling5257]

​@@VeryBasicBible The hypothetical "misstatement" examples above would make sense IF all preceding commentary [from RC or Rosebrough] were speaking in favor of a certain position only to then completely contradict their position by a poor word choice or a fumble of the tongue. As it stands, this was nowhere close to the context of the supposed oopsie doopsie "cult leader" comment injection. According to Josh, "you don’t want to bare false witness” (at 1:18:27) which is why he said he did weeks’ worth of research. Josh continues at 1:18:51…”So, here’s the question. Do you want to follow a person who stands for truth or do you want to follow a person who stands for truth because they get the pride of suppressing everyone else so that they can say I’ve got this long rob and tassels and look how great I am and I sit in all the high seats and great places and look how awesome I am that I’ve got all my doctrine right and I fast three times a week and I tithe and look how great I am…is that the guy you want to follow”? So, according to Josh, Chris is a Pharisee who does things with the wrong heart. Keep in mind this critique was 5 minutes before referring to Chris as a "cult leader"……the oopsie doopsie slip-up excuse doesn’t fit.

[@kennethfraire8152]

I listen to F4F, and have for about a year. I can’t say I agree 100% with everything he says or does (especially in the area of some jokes or how he pokes fun at the false teachers, etc) however, in my own study of what he says, I tend to agree with what is the TRUTH of what he says. I’m sure with everyone, there are some things that aren’t true whether intentional or not, but I find things he says to be more true in the end than not. Regardless, search the scriptures for the truth. Never EVER just take anyone’s word for it.

[@kipgibbs8323]

You guys are twisting and wiggling around Chris’s statement,you know what you are doing with it

[@BuildingApologetics]

How so? It seemed to me they addressed his statement specifically unless I am missing something

[@VeryBasicBible]

Yep, these guy lie every day. 😐🙄

[@BuildingApologetics]

@@VeryBasicBible Again, how so?

[@VeryBasicBible]

@@BuildingApologetics Oh my! No, lol🤗 I was being sarcastic. I'm actually a moderator for their show and support them financially and such. I guess I need better emojis haha 😆

[@VeryBasicBible]

@@BuildingApologetics In fact, Thx for the support you're giving them here in the comments. Grace and peace, bro

[@ChattyNana]

The prophets of the Bible did not get it wrong. A prophet today will not get it wrong....if the prophet gets it wrong then that are not a prophet....you need to stop calling all these persons prophets today when they consistently get it wrong! Stop calling what they say prophecies!

[@brewerbb]

I think you should have Chris on your show and biblically see if he is wrong, I think you might regret it because you aren’t seeking the whole council of scripture on this matter.

[@svenwalton1332]

you are the one they are talking about - the gullible who are easily deceived by a mocker - an accuser of the brethren doing the work of the devil

[@Po_Dunk]

I’ve quoted part of a song my late brother wrote on many Christian apologetics and Christian teachers KZbin channels. “God rejects the proud, but gives grace unto the humble. He wants you down on your knees, that’s the reason He lets you stumble.” I have to remind myself of these words all the time. You’re right. We are all sinners and need to search our hearts constantly.

[@Ken-ly7zh]

walking the fence, you fellows sound like politicians

[@DefenderoftheCross]

OK people, a grammar lesson: prophecy=noun prophesy=verb Any questions?

[@EAB-bz6yi]

Chris doesn't think he is better? He prays for these people.....God has used him to teach good sound doctrine for many years and bringing people out of the charismatic movement.

[@matasaina2011]

Good doctrine - the ministry of the Holy Spirit = a limited Gospel.

[@greatestoftheseco7473]

@@matasaina2011 Explain what “the ministry of the Holy Spirit is” using scripture.

[@caroleimani9754]

The thing I don't like about "personal prophesies" are that they have been about 95 percent wrong (when they were directed toward me).......

[@elizabethbotha3925]

Wow......u calling him a cult leader.....I can't wait for Chris's response

[@NateMP]

Amen to seeing how we could all be in Chris' position within a few years time and having compassion and love for those who hate us. Hard to find people who have the love of God and speak the truth at the same time