Cessationism Rewritten: The Lost History of the Reformation

[@stevenschouten4409]

Y’all should think about having Tim Conway from “I’ll Be Honest” on the show. He is pastor/church-planter that aligns with the Reformed Baptist tradition and rubs shoulders with men like Paul Washer. He has spoken about the supernatural element of Christianity & talks about the miraculous events with the Scottish Covenanters. See his recent message “Supernatural Christianity.” Would be an interesting conversation.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Thanks!

[@RebeccaJeffersonOAC]

​@@TheRemnantRadio Maybe invite Paul Washer too?

[@RebeccaJeffersonOAC]

​@@TheRemnantRadioThere's someone with an amazing story of their 95 year old grandma who was a missionary in Africa. It's further down in the comments. Amazing stuff. Maybe you can track her down and interview her 😀

[@lindararey8641]

I have to admit when I read "Tim Conway", my mind diverted to an entirely different context. 😅😅😅😅

[@yana1955]

Could you pinpoint where Tim Conway spoke specifically about Scottish Covenanters and miraculous events? My Covenanter ancestors came to America just before the American Revolution from Northern Ireland and my generation is the first to break away in various directions. I heard stories of martyrdom but nothing of miraculous events.

[@e.m.8094]

I like what Craig Keener said in a video I watched a while ago stating something along the lines of "The doctrine of cessationism is not in the Bible."

[@raybrensike42]

Yes, I would like to see John MacArthur stick to the plain reading of the text.

[@jasonbilbro6373]

I like to say, “Cessationists are the flat-earthers of theology.”

[@wenhari06]

⁠that's the worst insult on flat earthers I have ever heard!

[@aaronvienot]

@@jasonbilbro6373 One could clap back that continuationists are the astrologers of theology, but how would that advance the discussion? See 2 Timothy 2:24.

[@margocarmichael6765]

​​​​@@raybrensike42 yes, John MacArthur wrote the book Charismatic Chaos, and yes, there is some. But he left out half of 1 Corinthians 14. He said that Paul ended the chapter with I'd rather I prayed 1000 prayers in my understanding than one in an unknown tongue, something like that. But Paul did not end it there. That was only *halfway through* 1 Corinthians 14. *MacArthur totally ignored the end,* which says to not be ignorant ( KJV) , FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES, LET ALL THINGS BE DONE decently and in order! If Paul were going to say that gifts were going to cease so don't do them anymore, he would have done it here. And he did not. Why did MacArthur leave out half the chapter? Surely, he knows the Bible better than that. Or did he just assume that's what it says, because that's what he's always heard?

[@NotEasyButSimple]

I was born in West Africa. I often wonder if hyper cessationists go on mission trips. Like it's very convenient to be a cessationist int he developed west. But I don't see how it computes in the underground churches where Bibles are banned and people have to hide to read. My grandma was a missionary and faced a lot of attacks from witch doctors for preaching in the villages. She visited a new town with her newborn son and the witch doctor showed up and said "he heard the sound of a baby in his territory. there will be no sound of a baby in his town from them (the Christians)." That night there were a lot of weird noises in the house, the baby cried all night and started getting sick. by morning, the baby was stiff and could not move. Another man showed up at the house with word of knowledge. Then he layed his hand on the baby and prayed and she baby started becoming normal. He came with word of knowledge and knew everything and źprayed for her son and he got well. Then later that day the witch doctor showed up again and said "how dare you take another man's arrow and strike me?" obviously this man worshiped a demonic God and was saying some power that was not from his alter or shrine or something stopped his attack on the Christians. My grandma is still alive and is 95 years old now. She still loves Jesus and reads her bible every day. here is the catch; we were not charismatics; WE WERE PRESBYTARIANS!! Bible reading and hymns singing Presbyterians. She still is and this is just one of many crazy stories. But some cessasionist will say it was a demon who healed her baby so that she could continue preaching the gospel to the heathen city, right? SMH!!

[@justinrehm268]

No, no cessationist would claim that was demonic. According to your story these men prayed for the baby. God answered that prayer. Please don’t suggest that cassationists don’t believe in the power of prayer that’s just going too far in an attempt to prove them wrong. Let’s be honest and sober-minded when characterizing fellow believers with whom we may disagree.

[@NotEasyButSimple]

@justinrehm268 I don't mean the prayer part; we can all agree to believe in prayer. I mean the "word of knowledge" part. He knew what was happening to her baby and that she wanted to leave that same day and head back to her village, and no one told him that. God sent him to my grandma, and he knew what happened, and he encouraged her. She didn't know him. I'm not broadbrusing that's why I said "some cessasionist" because I have, in fact, heard some ascribe word of knowledge and prophecy to something bad or just refuse to acknowledge that God spoke to someone outside of the text of scripture, and I've seen it here on youtube. And I didn't understand why. I've posed the same question on many of their videos and not getting responses... how did this man know all those things? If God doesn't speak outside of the Bible, who told this man those things? Same thing happened to me when I was poisoned as a child. God sent my same grandma and she took us to a church and the leader had word of knowledge and prayed for us and we got up and walked out of there like nothing happened. It's a long story. Maybe such miracles are more common where there are no hospitals at every corner, I don't know. So coming to the US I'm struggling to reconcile why soo many don't believe God doing supernatural things through people.

[@DarylWood-bi7hb]

@@NotEasyButSimple Love your testimony! Thanks for sharing.

[@RebeccaJeffersonOAC]

@RemnantRadio Maybe find out who this grandma is and interview her 😀

[@usa2tube]

God saved me in 1990 in a thoroughly reformed church that still believed in the gifts of the Spirit. The pastor was a graduate of Westminster Seminary, but the PCA wouldn't ordain him because he did his thesis on the Holy Spirit's ongoing activity in the church. The church stood strong against the "charismatic chaos" as well as the John MacArther-ite cessationism. I feel b,essed to have been given this balanced foundationof truth.

[@andreso9595]

What’s the pastor and name of that church brother

[@dylanmilks]

This was an amazing conversation! Thank you, guys, for speaking up on this topic. Very informative and learned a lot.

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@debras3806]

Love all your shows, but this is one of the best. For the algorithm!❤

[@SethYoderMusic]

Extremes on both sides need to take Paul Washer's advice. "Twist not Scripture, lest you be like Satan."

[@kairoscalifornia]

When I was reading the works of Jonathan Edwards a couple of years ago, I was fascinated to read that his wife was experiencing similar physical manifestations of the Holy Spirit that they now have in places like Bethel Church in Redding, Far from seeing it as blasphemy or demonic, Jonathan Edwards asked his wife if she could write a small letter describing her experiences, in part to bring understanding to those around them, and also to declare that these experiences were actually from God

[@BrianMcLaughlin-ds2hc]

If I may, keep reading Edward's and leave Bethel (Redding) behind. Certainly one cannot have a working knowledge and experience of both and say it's the same

[@TheRemnantRadio]

There is a middle ground to be found between hyper charismatic and hyper cessationist

[@BrianMcLaughlin-ds2hc]

@TheRemnantRadio I whole heartedly agree. I really appreciated this video and would find myself probably not too far from you theologically, after our Heavenly Father had mercy and pulled me out of the mania-bethel side

[@davidwireback8621]

@@BrianMcLaughlin-ds2hc so you’ve been buying the gossip about Bethel

[@BrianMcLaughlin-ds2hc]

@davidwireback8621 Nope. You missed that one friend. I was all in on the bethel stream and heavily involved in healing room ministries. I devoured it. I knew what they taught, and God mercifully saved me out.

[@jonathandavid9720]

The Scriptures are Sufficient but not Exhaustive.

[@BrownGuyGaming91]

As a reformed charismatic, I'm looking forward to watching this.

[@coffeeandword]

I've been studying the revivals of Wales recently for an upcoming video. One thing i noticed was the Calvanistic Methods being very experiental and also believing God still speaks to believers directly.

[@goodtogaz]

Wow great conversation. Thanks Ryan Denton!

[@whiteshadow6601]

Great program and great guest!

[@TheIcanntspel]

Mad respect for the library behind Ryan.

[@timothyross8985]

I am convinced that Reformers were nuanced Cessationist or Soft Continuist And Continuist is different then Charismatics.I further believe they be in Sovereign Grace,Acts 29 circles or Martyn Lloyd Jones circles in Europe. If they lived today. Many of the views of the Puritans is what I was taught in Wesleyan Pentecostalism.

[@allyweislogel9694]

Hi there! Really appreciate this episode, as I come from a reformed Presbyterian background. As a Protestant who’s trying to “go back to the sources” as Josh advised, I’ve been trying to find early American editions of the Westminster confessions of faith and Augustine’s City of God, but how early of a publication should I go? For example, do I avoid reprints from the 1990s, or even the early 1800s? (Due to the recent editing out important distinctions from the original texts). It’s hard to find early publications, but if I have to avoid editions that are more accessible I will. Thank you for your insight!! 🫶🏻

[@mustbsavdbyjesus]

When Ryan talks it’s like listening to a machine gun. Great convo

[@Tcromb]

Lol! "If you want to spend $178 to find out what God's not doing anymore..."

[@NotEasyButSimple]

@@Tcromb 😂😂😂

[@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj]

I pray this doesn’t sound demeaning in ANY way but, man, those “hyper-cessationist” are so funny to me. There is ZERO way that you can read the Bible and come out hyper-cessationist.

[@thebible3368]

This is good! I appreciate this as a dispensationalist who has continuitionism beliefs. Were there any dispensationalist in history that you know of that where continuation is? I heard about Charles Spurgeon as a reformed guy who believed in the gifts

[@ronellgerber777]

Psalms 91 GOD INSTRUCTS THE ANGELS ACCORDING TO US.

[@shawngillogly6873]

I have always enjoyed my discussions with Ryan on X. And having read the Puritans deeply (and using Puritan in my X moniker), I agree with his conclusion. I suspect this was a distinction between Puritans and Dutch Reformed,.as well. At least from the DR I've read.

[@emilesturt3377]

"Protestantism is an exchange of ideas" - Some Orthodox guy somewhen (so true though, and I'm not even Orthodox)

[@lindararey8641]

I've been pondering for some time if we haven't been imposing a modern interpretation of the spiritual gifts enumerated in the NT that would not have been the understanding of the original audience. For instance, we tend to automatically picture the twelve when we read "apostles" , when it was likely that the first century believers saw it as a more generic term. There is allso a tendency today to see the gifts as given as a corporate structure, rather than the body, as Paul describes in 1 Corinthians. And hyper charismatics tend to use the prophetic gift as a sort of fortune telling, when the OT prophets spent more time calling Israel back to Yahweh and proclaiming the consequences of their apostacy than they did on future prophecies. Just a thought.

[@br.m]

Apostles of who? Yes it is a generic term. The difference is that the Apostles in the Bible are apostles of Jesus. Since it just means "one who is sent". Then the obvious question is sent by whom? That's the difference. So there are the main Apostles, the 12 or 14 however you want to count them. Then Jesus also sent out the 70 apostles. Anyone running around today calling themselves apostles and boasting that they have spiritual gifts they are all puffed up and twisted.

[@davidward5225]

“Functional deists” - that’s it

[@Myrdden71]

Loved your very last point about those two scriptures often cited by cessasionists.

[@DarylWood-bi7hb]

Doesn't Calvinism lead to Augustine's"Blueprint Model?" And, doesn't the "Blueprint" paradigm eviscerate the basis and exercise of faith, to a significant extent?

[@davidbull-wo8vb]

No it does not

[@DarylWood-bi7hb]

@@davidbull-wo8vb To which question were you responding? To both? Can you develop your response? I'm interested in hearing a thoughtful counterpoint to these questions, because it sure seems like, to me, that this is the case.

[@jmstigliano]

Great episode 👍 I might be an "original recipe" cessationist!

[@timothyross8985]

This is going to be great. Anyone familiar personally with Presbyterian Elder Ryan Denton? I follow him.He recently has went after G3 Cessationism as a Cessationist. I been following that discussion. He talks about the continuism or supernatural among the WCF circles and Reformers.

[@claytoncorley1741]

He is a solid brother.

[@DanielVoeller]

He’s an amazing guy, passionate about spreading the Gospel. He is actually a pastor, and he’s preached at my church a few times.

[@IamGrimalkin]

One thing you didn't mention is the gift of tongues. Historic cessationists did think they ceased (although from reading the Reformers it sounds more like they reinterpreted it as preaching in Latin).

[@miguelz8721]

Great video !

[@BrianScarborough-wb7xn]

It is SO much better when you have a guest!

[@FrankRollberg]

Good conversation. Ryan and G3 guys need to have a brotherly debate. I think this would be a benefit to the body of Christ.

[@j.sargenthill9773]

I agree that terms are important. we can't use the words of church history in a different way while using the statements from church history about those terms as justification for our assertions today. the same can be said about scripture. you can't, for example, use a verse about "saints" while redefining a Saint as a separate class of christian.

[@DepDawg]

Excellent point!

[@BrianLassek]

Excellent post my friend!

[@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj]

Thank you, Brothers 🌹🌟🔥🌟🌹

[@andreso9595]

Can the brother print out all of these quotes and share with the Remnant family🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@zacdredge3859]

I think the thing you need to understand is that most people with the corresponding view never chose the epithet Cessationist in the first place; it's an ugly word on face value. No cessationist I know of claims the inactivity of the Holy Spirit; we all believe in the essential role of the Spirit dwelling within us, writing the law on our hearts, conveying the grace of Christ, bringing us into communion with the Father and each other, illuminating the Scriptures, producing good fruit in our lives and more. 'Cessationism' is simply the rejection of the pattern of specific spiritual gifts spoken of in the New Testament, most significantly in 1 Cor 12 and 14, as being promised indefinitely to the Church until the eschaton; as opposed to playing a key role in authenticating the Gospel in its initial spread and the authority of the Apostles and their teachings, which were then encoded in the New Testament. Defining the 'cutoff' and how far people take the doctrine itself are secondary questions. You could even believe God is able and willing to use similar spiritual phenomena and be cessationist in a technical sense, given the core premise only contravenes there being individuals in the Church with demonstrably recurring charismatic gifts. I'm personally quite convinced that the Muslim testimonies whereby they meet Jesus in a dream, sometimes without knowing enough to even identify who this figure is at the time, are genuine. I was listening to a testimony like that last Sunday and no part of it made me think 'oh man, I guess cessationism is false'.

[@leapofberen]

Any chance you guys might cover Charles Taylor “A Secular Age” and some of the premises in that tome? That would be really interesting.

[@andreso9595]

54:25 so good! Both continuatist and cessationist cannot say that the Fathers/Reformers believed exactly what is believed today

[@PappaDean1]

Stumbled on this interesting conversation. Guessing that NT Wright’s POV would be outside of the Westminster echo chamber here. I don’t believe Wright is a cessationist but I like his hermeneutics as he holds a high view of scripture as well as a high valuation of the gifts of the spirit. I’d like to hear your take on Wright.

[@maryt.2067]

I think remnant radio had nt wright on once , look up the videos. I know he's been on some other podcasts and he does pray in tongues

[@TheosLogosHill]

This is fire

[@isaaccastro7522]

Good one Josh, I lol'd on that opener!

[@ronellgerber777]

GOD ALWAYS REVEAL NEW REVELATION. WE SERVE A LIVING GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO REVEALS DAILY. It did not stop at Jesus.

[@brandonredin]

Love It!

[@ianyimiah]

Can someone please give me a list of all the books and documents they referred to in this episode?

[@oldsalty8562]

When you are full of pride, controlled by your carnal mind and cannot humbly fall on your face before God you will never experience His awesome presence and power.

[@ronellgerber777]

GOD does give new revelation and over time dissects that revelation through scriptures, not only just the Bible and you can actually see where that puzzle piece/revelation fits in. GOD THROUGH Jesus that HE could not reveal all through Jesus, because people did not even believe the things that were happening on earth...how on earth could HE reveal heavenly things to people who are still dead and blind.

[@JohnSmith-tx3ys]

Charismatic here. Former missionary. Continuationist. The apostles were fallible, “Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick”. FF Bosworth healed every singe student in a school for the deaf. I’m a former Calvinist. Calvin believed in modern day apostles. See acts 14:14. I minister in the gifts of healing. I have ministered in meetings where every single person was healed. See psalm 103:3. It’s God’s will for everyone to be healed.

[@dbaxt287]

Invite Paul Washer to come on the show!! The experiences he shares on the power of the Holy Spirit in his life is more book of Acts than many charasmatics experience.

[@olabashanda]

Do either of you, Ryan Denton, or Remnant Radio, cover how the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how they are used in the context of the local church anywhere?

[@TheRemnantRadio]

We have a Gifts of the Spirit playlist with numerous episodes. Here is one to get you started: kzbin.infol6i9zog8U1c?si=_c7hsPIZ2mcS8Snx

[@cynthiahunter2570]

So you’ve never seen pink-haired Cat Kerr talk about how she goes to Heaven on a repeated basis, that Santa Claus lives there, that they have houses made out of candy, that you can pick a piece of candy off and eat it and it will grow back? You’ve never seen her claim that she’s going to stop hurricanes? Have you ever seen Gloria Copeland say that Ken can control the weather and that he has stopped a water spout, but, says she, they don’t fly in bad weather?

[@Beccaboo739]

Would you guys please do a deep dive on Kabbalah and how it has affected deliverance ministry? I feel very strongly that this very well could be behind most of the global corruption in the world including pretrib dispensationalism. I was watching Dan Duval’s 12-hour deep dive on it which was mind blowing, but the more I listen to him about other things, the more I hear NAR concepts emerge which makes me not 100% trust him.. I know you all have that part straight, so exposing g Kabbalah based on Titus 1: 10-16 would be highly beneficial to your audience to know about.

[@ronellgerber777]

GOD TOLD ME TO WRITE EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO ME IN A BOOK, message given by a prophet !

[@ronellgerber777]

Scripture points to PETER as the first to be reborn. But Elijah was actually the first through John which Jesus confirmed. David through Jesus? 1 Chronicles 17.

[@JadDragon]

God will never stop working miracles. Jesus lives! ♥️ and is Yahweh God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑

[@davidwireback8621]

I like a lot of stuff that Sam storm has to say. But he is absolutely incorrect about believing that not all believers get to speak in tongues and as a prayer language when they’re baptized in the holy spirit. He really needs to change that

[@RebeccaJeffersonOAC]

Many believers don't. Paul said that not all speak in tongues, 1 Cor. Prophecy is more important, 1 Cor 14:1

[@FRodriguez_]

The thief on the cross is not also an example of salvation by grace through faith, but also an example that clearly goes against what you’re teaching.

[@davidwireback8621]

@@RebeccaJeffersonOACyou are mistaking the gifts of tongues where a person is moved by the Spirit to speak a message on tongues and then someone interprets it .All get to speak in tongues as a fiction of praying with our spirits. When we pray in the spirit.our spirit is edified .Why would God not this ability to every Christian who asks?

[@bradenhogan2]

The word “ceased” came into theological vocabulary with WCF 1.1? What about 1 Cor 13.8? Doesn’t that usage of “ceased” (available to the Westminster divines) seem to be relevant?

[@lmorter7867]

This subject is confusing to me. I don't see why God would stop speaking through people without giving a reason. Its clear that it is one of the gifts that was given to the church to edify and equip the church to do work for the kingdom. The church is still doing work for the kingdom. Its not hard to test what we hear because God speaks through His written word so what He says won't ever contradict or change what He has already said.

[@lindararey8641]

Fascinating.

[@somemedic8482]

As someone who is not cessationist. There is no such thing as fallible interpretation of prophecy. The bible is very clear that prophecy has to be accurate and there is no room for using the term "God says", if one is not sure of the accuracy of how they interpret a revelation from God. Its borderline blasphemy to say anything is revealed from God which is inaccurate in anyway shape or form. It doesn't matter whether the interpreter is flawed or not. In fact, the apostles were flawed but there was no room for fallible revelation from them. Even when Paul was not sure that what he was saying was from God, he will say that he is speaking from a human viewpoint. So if you are not sure of a prophecy, either keep quiet or say you are not sure. There is no room for inaccuracy when saying "God says".

[@TheRemnantRadio]

You may be encouraged to know we avoid the phrase "God says" LOL!

[@somemedic8482]

@TheRemnantRadio i understand you. But I don't see the point of prophecy if there is a possibility of it being inaccurate. So why prophesy in the first place?

[@TheRemnantRadio]

1 Corinthians 14:3 says “But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort,” so that is the purpose of prophecy, and 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 tells us “Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good.” Why would we be commanded to test them and to hold on to what is good - unless there is interpretation that we should and can let go of . . .

[@cm2019]

With the rise of neo-Paganism and the influx of people from other parts of the world, I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of spiritual giftings among the Church. Some things that might be ignored or dismissed by people with a secular worldview, might reach people with a more supernatural worldview. God is quite capable of revealing Himself to different people in different cultures in a way they can understand, whether that be through strictly intellectual apologetics or a raw display of His power over other "gods".

[@geographicaloddity2]

I grew up in a diest Southern Baptist Church (yes, if you think I'm talking about you, I am) and the first time I heard another Southern Baptist Church talking about and getting excited about answered prayer, I thought they must be closeted Charismatics. 😂 Randos? 😅 (I know what show neither one of us should have watched).

[@jeremyweimer8926]

Ryan Denton looks like he belongs in Jurassic Park.

[@stephensmith6734]

The remnant guys are begging it a bit here - total nonsequiter! The classic cessationist position is not synonymous with continuationism by any stretch. They did not hold to tongues, interpretation, healing gifts or baptism in the holy spirit. Granted there is a flexibility and openness to mediate forms of revelation. But that is it. You guys are being very selective with your emphasise in order to make them both positions look synonymous. And the conclusion you come does not follow from the premise your trying to argue from, if you consider both positions in a complete manner (rather being selective) In reality, the remnant guys would not sign up for classic cessationism at all. It rejects their wider charismatic spirituality, theology and worship praxis (which has more in common with estern mysticism than biblical Christianity). The reformers were not charismatic. Period. That is a disingenuous argument to make also. Disappointing

[@TheGoldFamily-dj5td]

Um... I think you are conflicting the continuationist position with charismatics. Not all continuationists are charismatics, though all charismatics are continuationists.. They are referring to continuationism here. The things you mention are more characteristic of charismatics

[@santtuhyytiainen]

Revelation can also be categorized as public and private. Public revelation has been canonized into Bible as God's revelation to all mankind and the rule of Faith. Private revelation is God's revelations and instructions to indivituals or communities, that are ment to instruct or build up that person or community but are not binding on others.

[@michaelcorbett6104]

IMHO there are 4 groups. Cessationist, hyper-cessationist, continuationist and hyper charismatic.

[@davidwireback8621]

Do you want to give an example of what a hyper charismatic does. And what’s the difference between a charismatic and a continuationist .

[@IamGrimalkin]

@@davidwireback8621 Charismatics and continuationists are often used interchangably, but one definition of a charismatic is a continuationist who believes that the gifts of the spirit should be actively pursued/prayed for. There are a good number of "inactive continuationists" who theoretically believe all the gifts continue but feel under no obligation to actually attempt them. I've never seen a good definition of "hypercharismatic". They seem to be just charismatics some groups dislike. Sometime It's associated with the "New Apostolic Reformation", but that just refers to charismatic churches with a centralised top-down leadership structure. That doesn't have anything to do with being charismatic of any stripe; there are cessationist and liberal churches with centralised top-down leadership structures as well.

[@andreso9595]

Most theology unfortunately is reactionary . It’s the “in case of emergency break glass” theology. There are times when correction is needed in Christian history- but we err when we stay in a extreme reactionary approach we see this all the time and it’s unfortunate

[@jeffbarrett411]

(1Corinthians 13:10) "When that which is perfect comes, then that which is in part shall be done away" When Love comes to the church, rules, the law and the laws of nature give way to miracles. But only when and not until the lack of love is addressed and knowledge in this area is attained. Pentecostal churches do lack Love. However Cessationism is anti-Christ, anti-Word, satanic power and the wrong road - thieves trying to climb in another way. Clouds without water, blackest darkness is reserved for the cessationist

[@kathymarie9933]

Where does it say in scripture that there are "apostolic" gifts versus regular gifts? Or where does it say that any of the gifts ceased with the last apostle? It doesnt. Unless you twist scripture to fit your persuasion.

[@ronellgerber777]

GROWTH = NEW

[@michealmatt2259]

is the bible a book of what God used to do in times past? Or is it written and preserved so we can see endless possibilities of what it means to live out a life in Christ and walk in His truth in real every day life and be expectant for Him to be Supernatural, practical and miraculous???

[@TheRemnantRadio]

The Bible is a book for today.

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

The Bible was written primarily for the last days. Paul says so here: "Now all these things happened to them as examples, _and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come_ . Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall"(1 Cor. 10:11-12). Note that. Paul said it was written for _Christians_ to learn from, not the Israelites who were alive when those books were written.

[@jonathandavid9720]

The Hyper Cessationist will never be able to hear Gods calling on his life.

[@JBly4]

I get tired of the cessationist attacks when hyper charismania is the issue of our time. More preaching to the choir without realizing they also are rewriting history. Trace back any of the RR heroes of the faith and you will get your eyes opened to where their practices came from.

[@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj]

Neither extreme is okay, friend.

[@JBly4]

@@DavidVictoriaReyes-xd9fj Disagree friend. One, even if you disagree with it, insists on scripture. The other has no room for it. It's embarrassing when RR calls Justin Peters more dangerous than Mike Bickle. (And they have). Also, the fact that neither extreme is ok proves exactly why I tire of the hypocrisy of the constant cessationist bashing. Beam out of your own eye please.

[@ronellgerber777]

The Bible is just snippets of prophecy...I witnessed that the gospels too carry snippets of what GOD revealed to me.

[@louisjwiese5515]

People maybe don't have the faith anymore? And perceives Christianity as a lifestyle and list of doctrines to adhere to, instead of a living relationship with a living Person being God? Anyways I have seen the gifts manifest many times. I can't be a cessationist if I am a witness to the contrary...

[@garyjelich4709]

Martin Luther wrote, in the 4th verse of his famous hymn, "A Mighty Fortress", "The Spirit and the gifts are ours, through Him Who with us sideth." Therefore, it seems to me that he was either a continuationist or, like your guest, a "moderate cessationist".

[@br.m]

Luther may have considered the sacraments and salvation as gifts. Such as the gift of the Holy Spirit that is received with baptism. The flesh and blood are gifts, mercy and salvation are gifts. Luther was not a cessationist but he was not a loony either like people pretending to talk in tongues or have magic powers. This is the wrong crowd to learn anything about Luther or Lutheranism though, these guys are silly.

[@warrenroby6907]

This video needs to get wide circulation among my fellow Reformed believers.

[@maryt.2067]

did knox say a "portion of which were fulfilled"? so not all?

[@amyclutter7259]

Can’t wait! Let’s go!!🎉

[@MrPaulmark19]

This episode convinces me that we are Charismatic Full Gospel Continuationist after all. Im sorry to my Reformed Cessationist friends, you should do some evaluation and critical thinking. Because based on Elder Renton's discussion, what Grace To You, G3, and Cessationist Movie is a gross misuse of the Protestant Sources to justify their view. They clearly misread the Reformers and the Church Fathers.

[@MrPaulmark19]

Sorry typo error....Elder Ryan Denton

[@BrianScarborough-wb7xn]

So I guess that the whole Cessationist/Continuation I st argument is now a spectrum? Where are you on the spectrum?

[@IamGrimalkin]

I feel like a lot of the hypercessationist rhetoric comes from a place of Nuda Scriptura rather than Sola Scriptura (and a confusion of the two). Even if you threw all prophecy and word of knowledge-like revelation in the trash; the writers of the Westminster Confession clearly thought that tradition was a (lesser) authority. From that standpoint the idea that "you must be a (hyper-)cessationist" to be a Protestant" sounds very silly.

[@BigMamaMyers]

"...to find out what God's NOT doing anymore..." 😂😂😂

[@GabrielMartinez-su8di]

My favorite line from this episode 😂😂😂

[@danpahlau16]

What’s the best way to see what the G3 guys have to say about this video without getting them into my algorithm? I can’t imagine they love being accused of holding an historically new theological position.

[@gabrielclymer5340]

"Reactionary theology is always bad theology" -GBC

[@fabianapimentel6114]

Do I understand that you think Moses, the prophets and apostles wont sin that's why their words are infallible?

[@DarylWood-bi7hb]

I thought that comment was odd, just like you did. I think if we pull on that thread, some things start to unravel a bit.

[@jesseabraham6913]

“…you mean he (Doug Wilson) couldn’t use the scripture to explain why he couldn’t use the scripture to explain why that was wrong?” -Miller Hahahaha!

[@geographicaloddity2]

This talk about angels and revelation: isn't that how Joseph Smith got in trouble? Seriously, from a Catholic or an Orthodox position, how are the two different?

[@TheRemnantRadio]

Joseph Smith led people away from Jesus, which is the definition of a false prophet

[@br.m]

How do I interpret tongues? I don't. It's impossible. Thankfully we have google translate and apps for translating these days. God doesn't need to give anyone the spiritual gift of tongues anymore it is obsolete. Who pretends to talk in tongues these days?? You can't be serious.

[@darylnotter1365]

❤

[@peteryang2633]

hyper textualists….. love it john macarthur camp

[@davidwireback8621]

I believe your guest is wrong about the hyper Calvinist or just Calvin as you are dealing with what they say our friends groups of charismatics. Most the time they don’t even actually talk to people about what they’re teaching. Doug Geveitte and Holly Pevic instead of reaching out and talking with actual leaders that they talk about in their books. They want to make their assessment based on abuses by people in Charismatic circles. Although they sat down with Dr. Michael Brown to have a discussion. They refuse to give questions to Dr. Brown so he could take them to some of the leaders and say this is what people are saying about your teaching are they true or not.

[@RachelRamey]

At around 13 minutes, I think you hit one what's one of the major points of confusion. What some people think of exclusively as two TIERS of revelation, Milne more accurately presents as primarily two TYPES of revelation. In some sense there's a hierarchy, but it's more that they're DIFFERENT. Not dissimilar to a husband and wife, where the wife is to be submitted to the husband (as prophecy should be submitted to the authority of Scripture), but on the whole the greater significance to their relationship is they each bring something *different* to it, which complement one another and work together.

[@br.m]

That was a confusing comment. Tiers, types? Like two types? Real vs. false.

[@RachelRamey]

@@br.m How is it confusing? "Tiers" and "types" are two distinct words with completely separate definitions. "Tiers" are hierarchy -- more vs. less important. "Types" are categories -- qualitative or functional differences. Given that Scripture makes it abundantly clear that not all prophecies are canonized in Scripture, it's equally clear that there are prophecies whose function is not the creation of canonized Scripture. A lot of this disagreement would be addressed if some of these people would spend as much time reading Scripture as they do reading (and defending) tradition. Still more of the disagreement would be addressed if people would remediate their weak reading skills.

[@JamieAnewCreation]

Be careful who you follow beloved...wolves platform wolves. Listen to Jesus words..follow your Shepard's voice only. Pray you are not deceived .

[@Codester91670]

John Wesleys Letter of rebuke of cessationism to Conyers Middleton should be an episode.

[@leapofberen]

This is all a bit much. It’s interesting, but it’s such a small sliver of the historical account. The biographies of some of these reformers, especially Knox, are not incredibly flattering and much more interesting and there is much more to learn there from the whole of their lives.

[@gabrielclymer5340]

Why do we need prophecy today? The Bible: Marry a godly woman or no one. Prophecy: Marry Rebecca, in the month of January, etc. The Bible: you are called to make disciples of all nations Prophecy: you are called to be an evangelist in the country of Turkey If you're a cassationist (on the modern sense), you need to understand this :) it's always been this way among God's people. Priests and prophets, the Word and the Spirit speaking.

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

And if I could add, just read the scripture. The Spirit of God is still speaking today

[@lindaetherton5828]

Nicolaitans?

[@FireflyFlynn]

Followers of Nicolaus. One of the 7 (original deacons) who along with Stephen and Phillip were called to serve the widows and the wanting with Church resources, Acts 6:5. Very little known on the exact details from my knowledge, but essentially he went apostate and led away a bunch of Church members to live in debauchery.

[@FireflyFlynn]

As I recall what I have read on the subject, the church leader Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp who in turn was said to be a disciple of the Apostle John spoke on Nicolaus, that he was one of the first who taught Gnostic teachings, to encourage pursuit of the flesh.

[@aaronvienot]

Revelation 2:6, and 15. These are the only two references in the Bible itself, so any claims about who they were or what they taught are somewhat speculative. But the name in Greek is easily understood as compounded from nikao and laos, "conquer the people," which would suggest a connection with Diotrephes-type behavior among church leaders (compare 3 John vv.9-11).

[@theeternalsbeliever1779]

@@FireflyFlynn Nicolaitans were not followers of the deacon mentioned in Acts. That is a terrible misconception. The man being referred to was either a follower of the Simon Magus figure from Acts 8 or even Simon Magus himself. In either case, Christ specifically drew attention to this movement in Revelation because it preached the lawless doctrine about God's laws being abolished with Christ's death.

[@FireflyFlynn]

@@theeternalsbeliever1779 is there a historic source to validate that position? I ask because I am building my own understanding of the church fathers/patristics and am always looking to ensure I take into account the reliable sources. Not to replace scripture, but to better understand the context, to view how the Early Christians may have carried out the early ministry, and to ‘finish the story’ after the book of Acts concludes. Referencing Irenaeus in “Against Heresies” where he speaks to the beginnings of Gnostic heresies he writes about Simon Magus in Book I Chapter XXIII for several paragraphs onward. He makes no connection to the Nicolaitaines. Then in Chapter XXIV-a few pages over-he speaks about the Nicolaitanes “the Nicolaitaines are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence.” Irenaeus also quotes Revelations 2 “Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: ‘But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.’” Additionally the church historian Eusebius from the late 3rd and early 4th century in Book 3 chapter 29 in The Church History states “At this time the heresy of the Nicolaitanes existed for a short time, mentioned in the Revelation of John. They laid claim to Nicolaus, one of the deacons who, with Stephen, was appointed by the apostles to care for the poor.” Granted that Eusebius wrote a few hundred years after Revelations was written, but he had access to sources which could support that claim. No doubt he used Irenaeus in part, but he also quotes Clement. Irenaeus lived a generation after the Nicolaitanes reference, grew up in Smyrna (one of the other churches Revelations addresses), under the bishop and martyr Polycarp. Polycarp was also a disciple of the Apostle John. Irenaeus became a Bishop of Lyon so clergy in his own right. I think he would be in a good position to know the origin of the Nicolaitanes, as an apostasy of this kind would not be unknown across the greater church and especially among the eldership. Not saying that any of the Early Christian writers are infallible, but in this case they are providing a ready answer and link to the Biblical record so I think they can be trusted in this regard. I hope those who read this have a blessed Lord’s Day.

[@cynthiahunter2570]

I would like to say, though I am a Cessationist, that I like you guys from Remnant Radio. I first saw you on the Theocast when you were discussing LAW and GOSPEL. Everybody and their brother in the 17th century and forward was not prophesying. You could probably count on one hand or both your hands the number of people who accurately prophesied anything. Nowadays multitudes of charismatics and others think they are prophesying and “giving words.”