Responding to "I used to be an Atheist" (feat. Matt Dillahunty)

In my recent conversation with Matt Dillahunty, he took a bit of a side track on people who claim to be former atheists. That cutting-room-floor segment was worth pulling back out to take a look at.
Are you a former atheist? What changed your mind?
Are you a current atheist? How do you respond to someone who says they were?
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[@Ithaca-vv5dy]

I used to be an atheist. I’m still an atheist, but I used to be one too

[@GregSmith-ob4vp]

keep up the good work you will get there.

[@timandmonica]

Haha! A little Mitch Hedberg on this channel!!!

[@markmooroolbark252]

Isn't is an indication of a lack of growth to have had one belief set your entire life? No doubts? No troughs or peaks?

[@paddlefar9175]

mark mooroolbark or just right on that one issue, right from the get go!

[@Ithaca-vv5dy]

mark mooroolbark I was 17 when I fully realized that I was an atheist. There was a time I believed in god, but it was a long long time ago. I was 11 when September 11th happened, and that made me start to question “faith” as a whole

[@reeceguisse17]

I keep seeing "I used to be an Atheist" videos - usually by Muslims - but their definition of atheism is more along the lines of "I always believed in God, but I didn't care." Apathy towards their childhood religion is where I suspect the "You know God is real, you just want to sin" argument comes from.

[@servantrider7044]

Yes, exactly how I feel about "I used to be an atheist" statements as well.

[@__Andrew]

yup, 100%. Almost every time i talk to a Christian who says "i used to be an atheist" they mean "my family only went to church on holidays" lol.

[@whatwecalllife7034]

What's weird us how presumptuous they can be by thinking they can read your mind and tell you YOUR intentions and beliefs.

[@elainehiggins2380]

Everyone wants to sin, Christians just want to get away with it by saying they believe in god. Cool!

[@einyv]

Or they "were mad at god" which means they believe it exists. Hardly an atheist to me

[@jonnie106]

I am an atheist but with the mountains of evidence and 'powerful' theist arguments I've heard lately I'm feeling swayed toward anti-theism.

[@ricardojohnson4513]

Hey Jonnie there is no God, but if you like the trappings of Religion, go to church and fake it. We Atheists won't mind.

[@darealpimpofdasouth]

@@ricardojohnson4513 I think you misread that comment

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

​@@ricardojohnson4513 Read that again, and pay close attention to the quotes and the last words.

[@0x777]

Hey, I don't mind god so much, what I have trouble with is his ground staff.

[@jonnie106]

@@darealpimpofdasouth Thank you!

[@heteroclitus]

If it takes more faith to be an atheist, and faith is a virtue, does that not make it more virtuous to be an atheist?

[@kristofftaylovoski60]

"For marketing purposes, I used to be an atheist"..... would be more accurate.

[@Paulogia]

bwahaha

[@GuyNamedSean]

My favorites are the people who claim to have been atheists, but by that they mean that they grew up believing that there was a god and they just didn't like that god and didn't wanna go to church. They fundamentally do not understand the concept of not believing in a god to such point that they just conflate it with disliking the idea of going to church.

[@DrogoBaggins987]

Exactly.

[@frankfleming9558]

GuyNamedSean What about they used to be an atheist and they were brainwashed into evolution at college and believed Haerckel’s drawings and everything exploded out of nothing. Lol.

[@thefoxamongwolves9843]

@Frank Fleming Are you trying to say the theory of evolution is a religion? Because you know that's dishonest, right?

[@Ottawa411]

I always try to find out who is actually a believer. When I was in the Canadian Armed Forces, it was common knowledge that going to church played a part in getting promoted. So anyone who was ambitious went to church. Many sales people went to church to improve their sales, especially realtors. Many men went to church because their wife made them. Many of the wives dragged their husband because they worried what the neighbors thought. I was an atheist who started going to church because it got me out of work for a few hours during basic training. I kept it up for a few years. I don't remember ever being a believer.

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

@@frankfleming9558 Haerckel's drawings were disproved by scientists, and "everything exploded out of nothing" is a huge misrepresentation of Big Bang cosmology. I highly doubt any serious Atheist actually believes in what you think they do.

[@timeshark8727]

_"I used to be an atheist"_ ... now let me prove it by completely misrepresenting what atheism is and present the same tired assertions and accusations about atheism, science, religion and faith that every other lifelong Christian apologist does as if I've never heard anything else in my life. Oh, and I have new, valid evidence... but I will never present it... ever... but I will assert that my claims about evidence actually is evidence when you ask for evidence later.

[@timeshark8727]

@Die Cast Racing with Von lol, wow... you completely failed to address anything from the post you are replying to... why'd you even bother?

[@jonathanstern5537]

I used to be an atheist, but I'll say that I'm not anymore, so that I can run for office and actually win something lol.

[@badideass]

Oof, how sad is that (not you) the fact an atheist can't run for office in the USA Might improve the country

[@fredworthmn]

I agree that it is sad that you are probably correct. Might even be said for religious leaders. How else are they going to make their money?

[@badideass]

@@fredworthmn mega church people make me sick. No church leader or group should live in mansions, tax the fuck out of them

[@JC-yb3zb]

In the U.S. at least, it is pretty much political suicide.

[@badideass]

@@JC-yb3zb unfortunately, USA is very mixed up

[@sbushido5547]

I think the most annoying thing about the "I used to be an atheist" shtick that's almost ubiquitous among apologists, is that they use it to imply that atheism is just a collection of all of (what they consider) the worst aspects of human nature. David "I bashed my father's head in with a hammer" Wood is the most egregious example, because he *_loves_* to conflate his personal mental issues with what it means to be an atheist.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

And if you ask questions the way Matt implies it turns out most often that they simply were christians with SLIGHT doubts and felt insecure due to the penalties laid down in the religion they still were indoctrinated into. That is not atheism, that is a short bout of agnosticism in their theist world. But yet folks like Strobel pretend they were "devout atheists" without really understanding what usually is meant by calling yourself a non believer. Namely the "no belief" part ;-)

[@jonnie106]

Most, if not all theist difficulty with atheism begins with their mis-identifying it; in particular in the context of the individual in question. That's how many of them get away with saying, "I 'know' you really believe in god". Turns out it's easy to say garbage like that to an atheist, when along with your morning cornflakes you've hijacked and kidnapped the definition of atheism, to a place that supports such a silly assertion.

[@OzixiThrill]

Using some empathic thinking, you can see why. They are taught the idea that being religious is the only way to be a good person. By being religious, they are being good people. And they were bad people as "atheists". And they have this idea confirmed by their fellow religious people every time they gather. It helps them deindividuate and think of themselves as part of the "good group". And since they are the good group and atheists are against their group, then "atheists" are bad people. That is usually the line of emotional thinking most of those people go through. In reality, however, they are people like anyone else. There are good and bad ones all through their groups. Now, I put the word atheist into quotation marks, because they struggle to understand the position themselves. They look back at their more rebellious phases where they felt unreligious and identify that as what atheism is, quite often, which leads them to misattribute the position to something that it is not.

[@sulas548]

I was recently having a long and 'reasonably' amiable conversation with a Christian on YT and she kept trotting out her pet 'he used to be an Atheist' example as evidence for her god. Her main example was David Wood. I pointed out that maybe her god could have come up with a kinder more loving method of informing David of his existence than having him smash his father's head with a hammer and going to prison. Needless to say it did not sink in!!!!!.

[@fomori2]

@s bushido. My position on apologists is that they are generally dishonest people that are looking to manipulate people into their religion. Using "I used to be an atheist" is just another lie they have in their toolbox.

[@ElectricBradyland57]

With the comment "I wish I was an atheist before so my testimony would be better" kinda says it all. When I was a Christian, your testimony was something you gave many times. And exaggerated events (ie: sipping a beer once = on the road to alcoholism) along with claims of "used to be an atheist" were often used to make testimonies interesting. Because "I grew up in a Christian house and became Christian" isnt exciting. That's why I'm skeptical towards "used to be atheist" claims, since they are often used to describe periods of "I thought church was boring".

[@DocBree13]

ElectricBradyland57 You described my situation perfectly. I went to church up to 5 times a week by the time I was in high school (was baptized at 7) - services, fellowship and prayer on Wed, youth choir, etc. I had always been such a “goody two-shoes” that I felt my testimony was boring and that kind of embarrassed me. I can’t really relate to the person I was back then, and I’m glad I can’t.

[@bensmithoriginals3413]

I feel this in my bones. When I hear that phrase I always get signals from my BS detector, and directly recall the feeling in my gut from when I was exaggerating to make something sound more credible. Well put 👊🏼

[@stevengabbard930]

I concur. My defenses raise each time I hear the expression "I used to be an atheist", because the person who says it almost always is getting ready to lay out a BS argument and reveal that they don't know anything about atheism and were never really an atheist. It's just a line that's used so the person can claim to be arguing from authority; i.e. 'I used to be like you so you need to listen to me.' One time, a retired college professor tried to use this on me. I asked him why he changed and accepted Christianity. The man honestly answered, "I prayed to Jesus about it and he revealed his truth to me". I didn't go to college but had to point out to a professor that real atheists don't pray to Jesus and have no reason to. On the other end of the spectrum are the people who want to get in my face and say that I'm not really an atheist but an agnostic. Agnosticism is a position I have little respect for. One either believes or they don't. But, if you haven't made up your mind about the existence of god or gods, you are technically an atheist. It's okay to search. Atheists do it all the time. I don't have the answers for everything and I didn't stop learning about the universe or contemplating life simply because I accepted there was no evidence for god. I'm not afraid to wear the Atheist badge.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@stevengabbard930 nailed it good sir.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

I'm certain some of these /former/ "atheists" fall in that category, Brady. But others simply had a bit of a shaky period with doubts about their religion and that scared them (for obvious reasons of the religion being a scary brainwashing quagmire of fear inducing stories and repeating the stories until it's become second nature to not doubt them many many many deconverted folks tell about having problems to lose the fear of hell for years or decades after no longer having any other part of the faith in their lives) so when it turned around and they were "born again", they now carry that doubt as a scout badge of "atheism" and praise themselves for conquering their horrible time of non belief (even if they never did NOT believe to at least some degree... compared to the absurd levels of devotion expected from "born again" christians it's as good as zero even if it only went down to 99.9 ;)) And SOME snakesoil selling charlatans also make the whole story up to get more authority on their (delusional) claims about what atheism is and what atheists will do... but that borders on Poe's law. You cannot really reveal a lying "former atheist" from one that is simply getting it wrong or one that truly did deconvert and got back into the fold.

[@CommieApe]

Them being an atheist at one point says nothing about the validity of the position. I want to be provided the evidence that changed their mind.

[@Lou13Cyf3r]

........"I'd rather be an adult with an imaginary friend instead of thinking rationally". Basically sums up all of em

[@maksimbolonkin]

I used to not believe in Santa Clause but now I believe in him again. Just look at the presents under the Christmas tree and all these Santas in every single mall!

[@ryantoth676]

In my personal experience, the "I used to be an Atheist" claims I hear usually involve converting to the dominant religion in that specific area, especially one they used to believe or was raised around. Funny, that.

[@lyokianhitchhiker]

You mean that they went back to being religious after a bout of atheism?

[@chrisose]

In religion belief is always prized over knowledge.

[@spocksvulcanbrain]

I would disagree. Faith is prized over knowledge in religions. You can be coerced to accept anything on faith. That's what happens to young children in religions and then they're surrounded all their adult lives by reinforcement.

[@0x777]

Gullibility is prized over wanting to know. And I can understand how to a lot of people, believing is far more attractive than knowing. Believing only requires you to believe. What's basically required is saying "I believe" and you're in. Knowing, on the other hand, only works via the detour of understanding. If you do not understand, you cannot know. Understanding, in turn, requires learning. Which may have the prerequisite of learning something else first. I can see why lazy people prefer to believe. It's less work.

[@leogosrjp4093]

Something Matt dillahunty says pretty often, that I tend to agree with, is that we can not choose what to believe in either an argument has convinced you of something or it has not convinced you. I mean I get your point but i think it’s more ‘faith’ and not believe that they prize over knowing. You can have faith in absolutely anything and use faith as an excuse to justify absolutely anything, faith is much worse than belief.

[@CleverMonkeyArt]

I am surprised and disappointed that everyone here - apparently - forgets what the fundamental attribute of all religion is, not just Christianity. Not faith or belief or knowledge or obedience. Love. Love. Try 1 Corinthians 13 for a change. It refutes both True Believers and Atheists.

[@chrisose]

@@CleverMonkeyArt I am not at all surprised that you would quote scripture rather than actually contribute to the conversation.

[@palladiumpony9596]

I was an atheist, then my grandparents told me god exists, and now I'm an atheist again

[@Nava9380]

I used to be a theist, but then I grew up.

[@Nava9380]

@Cleo Fierro lol 👏👏👏

[@Sammie551]

@Cleo Fierro how? He's saying that because of indoctrination!

[@sebidotorg]

Two of my favourite creators in one video. Clicked instantly.

[@12q8]

And unlike God, these creators are real.

[@LucivarDiablo]

I always ask a person who says "they were an atheist" what was it that convinced them to be an atheist in the first place and what changed your mind? It usually doesn't go well...

[@cindychristman8708]

All you have to do is ask them to define atheist, christian, and evolution. Odds are they'll be discussing/arguing straw men.

[@Sammie551]

Yes..they will say God appeared to them

[@LiEnby]

From experience- when they actually are, they usually didn't convert back to Christianity, I know a few people who went like: Christian -> atheist -> some neo-pagan religion.

[@MrGrumblier]

I can honestly say that I have never met anyone who used to be an atheist, however, I have met many atheists who used to be theists.

[@darealpimpofdasouth]

Your point being?

[@MrGrumblier]

@@darealpimpofdasouth Former atheists are rare would be my point.

[@darealpimpofdasouth]

@@MrGrumblier ok cool

[@Szadek23]

I used to be both (pagan now)! Although, I don't really care what others belive, so.... um, have a nice day?

[@Szadek23]

@Joe Horn that's the joke.

[@MisterRorschach90]

It’s a fine line to walk when talking to someone who claims they used to be an atheist. I do not want to strawman someone or fall into the no true Scotsman argument, but 99.999999999% of the time Matt is right, they either have terrible evidence like “look at the trees, look at the birds” or like family they think an atheist is someone who believes Jesus is their lord and savior but no longer goes to church. Every single time I’ve asked someone for evidence, or talked to someone who claims to be literally talking to god at that very second, the “evidence” that they give me is either one of the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, a misunderstanding of reality, or an outright lie. I had a coworker claim he was talking to god at that very second but god told him that I would never listen to a single piece of evidence. I told him if god were real he would never say that, and he responded by saying “I didn’t actually ask because I didn’t think I needed to” well why the fuck did you talk it up then? Because you want people to think you are holy and good, without doing anything that warrants being viewed that way.

[@jt2097]

I've never been an atheist. I've always, from being a child, believed in God because of an experience I had as a child. I never thought about it though and I lived my life like an atheist. I had all the weaknesses and did all the things in my life that appeared to be fun to me, satisfied all my hungers, did what I wanted when I wanted. I would argue with people about religion, evolution etc. because despite believing that God existed I didn't link Him to the religions of this world. Religious people would tell me that evolution wasn't true or that the earth and universe were approx 10,000 years old and I would stare aghast at them and do all I could to re educate them. I read the Bible so I could understand arguments from their side, I mean it is pretty stupid to say the Bible is wrong if you don't know what is in the Bible. It didn't really make any sense to me and even though I persisted and read it right through I didn't get anything out of it and it didn't change my perspective. As I matured and slowed down a little and with the advances in microbiology it caught my interest. I started studying what was known about living cells, from the simplest amoeba to the cells of plants snd animals, and guess what. I now know for certain that life could not have started by accident, it had to have been designed and assembled by a far greater intelligence than ourselves. Evolution in the Darwinian sense, ie molecules to man, is impossible though evolution in the sense of change over time, adaptation within the species, is an unarguable and demonstrable fact and even though I don't believe in the old man with a beard sitting on a cloud or the vindictive, punishing God that other people have in their minds I do believe in the intelligence which helped me as a child and which designed the magnificence of life, existence snd self awareness. And yes, that includes the trees. I'll post a video which shows just one part of many which must be in existence BEFORE the first self replicating cell can come into existence. There are others which I can post, if you are interested, which must exist before any life Is possible. Hang on, I'll find the video... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpDXiqWkq8SibKM

[@JohnDlugosz]

@@jt2097 That is a logical fallacy "I don't know (or don't understand) how abiogenesis occurred, therefore it is not possible." "Knowing it for certain" just means that you will not continue to learn more about it and eventually find out the details. Your video reference shows a thumbnail of DNA replication. You think that "replicating cells" must be today's complete, complex, cells? That is a mistake. The earliest replicating structures did not have DNA or RNA at all. Autocatalysis will occur with a small number of simple molecules. The synergy between autocatalysis and self assembly formed the first proto-life that replicated using only the simplest of processing of the materials surrounding it. Meanwhile (or should say "eventually"....), systems with rich metabolism can continue sustaining its working state dynamically, and fission into smaller parts which then grow, without any kind of state memory. Adding a memory bank was a later development. And, you may notice that the basic components of DNA replication and transcription are not made completely of proteins, like most stuff; rather it is made _from RNA_ ! The original machinery was made out of the same stuff that was being manipulated, being a highly advanced form of autocatalysis. There is a lot to learn, and much more detail will continue to be learned by humanity. Summary: The earliest self-replicating structures were not as complex as modern life. Insisting that a modern cell appeared fully evolved is just plain wrong.

[@jt2097]

@@JohnDlugosz researchers have not been able to develop a plausible theory to explain how life could evolve from non-life. what you say is pure speculation but I know you have to believe it, you have to keep lying to yourself because the alternative is untenable to you. Keep on dreaming.

[@1970Phoenix]

@@jt2097 You've made a few assertions which if true, would force millions of scientists around the world (including thousands of Christian Scientists) to do a complete 180 degree turn on much of what they understand about several fields of science. But assertions are very easily pulled out of one's arse. The hard part is DEMONSTRATING your views are true, not just asserting them. So, once you've demonstrated (not just asserted) to the world that you are right and millions of scientists are all wrong, then please let me know. You'll probably also need to clear a few shelves in your home for all the Nobel Prizes you'll win as well.

[@1970Phoenix]

@@jt2097 You can read minds too? What am I thinking right now?

[@paulcooper8818]

I've never met a "used to be atheist", plenty of "used to be Christian" tho.

[@themaster408]

I've only had street epistemology with 5 people, all friends. 2 of them said they used to be an atheist. 1 said music at church changed his mind, the other that because fish can survive in water during winter (with a thin layer of ice above them) that it proves god cares about fish enough to make water do that. Not very compelling arguments.

[@bobhope4288]

I've had a fair number of theists tell me, "I used to be an atheist because I loved sinning...then I realized God loved me so I started worshiping him." I've never heard any logical reason why they use to be an atheist, normally it's the love of sinning or that they just hate god or some nonsense like that. I've also never heard any logical reason why they stopped being an atheist, it's always because of feelings.

[@badideass]

@@bobhope4288 they are lying that's why

[@eskindirghiwot1099]

R/exatheist on reddit

[@badideass]

@@eskindirghiwot1099 it's easy to make up a story for propaganda, but also many gullible people exist

[@isaoblack987]

But were you an "inner circle" atheist?

[@MichaelDeHaven]

Nah, pagan polyatheism is where the cool kids are.

[@thinboxdictator6720]

inner circle atheists were rebranded to Illuminati

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

@@thinboxdictator6720 pretty sure those are actually the level 37, free mason, one world order, satanists, according to "Dr" Hovind.

[@sterhax]

Was this idea created so fake “past-atheists” could more readily out themselves? I’m imagining some amazing pastor in The Clergy Project has been talking about how all you have to do is let them know you’re Inner Circle and everything after that will be believed, no questions. Thank you, nameless pastor.

[@Scyllax]

Isao Black I don’t even know the secret handshake.

[@warptens5652]

One person changing their mind on a topic doesn't tell you anything about the topic. It may only inform you about the person.

[@BorisNoiseChannel]

When someone says: _"I used to be an atheist"_ I say: _"then you used to be reasonable"_

[@tomtrask_YT]

Yeah, it feels like the proper response is "oh, I'm sorry, but you can always go back"

[@Cheepchipsable]

Why? On what basis do you assume that just because someone is an atheist it automatically makes them reasonable or intelligent?

[@elguapochango]

I’ve found it’s actually kind of hard to get Christians who claim to have once been atheist to really articulate the reasons very well but my general impression is that most of them merely mistake being an atheist for time in their life when they did not take the religion all that seriously, did not trust The Bible to be infallible, were angry at god, religion, or religious people, or were actually more deist or something like that.

[@riggslink4520]

Adam Jester I couldn’t agree more. The “ I use to be an atheist “ line is one of my biggest pet peeves. It’s been my experience that lots of people who say this are like most of the people who make up society; they really have not thought about what they believe and why. As soon as I started asking myself these hard questions, I found out I wasn’t justified in my Christian beliefs.

[@ericpierce3660]

"I used to be an atheist" is usually some version of "I was so angry at God" or "I went my own way until God drew me back like the prodigal son." They never stopped believing in the religion they were exposed to as children, they just distanced themselves during the turbulent teenage years and maybe early adulthood, and then had a "come home to Jesus" moment and rededicated themselves to their childhood beliefs.

[@gamingdragon1356]

So how is someone who doesn't go to church or read the Bible a christian

[@l0_0l45]

@@gamingdragon1356 Born christians. That's how they would put it. People get serious about religious practices at different points of their life.

[@gamingdragon1356]

@@l0_0l45 i dont think all put it that way , thats why they say they were not christians early .

[@tommcdonald4014]

I'm a bit surprised, yet so glad that you are already back to making videos, Paul! I did my little bit, and, it seems, lots of others so value you and your work that they gave their larger bits to help you get back up and running quickly. I hope you know how much I value you and your efforts at making the world better and more rational. Keep up the good work!

[@DrogoBaggins987]

I remember those testimonies from people who claimed to have been atheists. Usually they are just lying like all the stories of Mike Warnke. I remember a pastor telling about when he was an atheist but he was just a young jerk who found religion. I used to be an atheist mostly means that I went through a rebellious weed smoking stage as a teenager and never really thought anything through.

[@pastycayk1998]

That's not atheism, that's an angsty teen Christian boi,

[@DrogoBaggins987]

@@pastycayk1998 That's right.

[@atheistsfightclub6684]

I always get an image in my head of an accountant spouting off to a Goth saying "I know all about Goths, i was an emo for a whole summer when i was fifteen."

[@DrogoBaggins987]

@@atheistsfightclub6684 That's funny and sounds about right. When I got out of the Army I was talking to my sister about some of the stresses involved. She acted like she knew all about it and said something about how she felt when she got home from work. I never was able to effectively communicate to her that if she got to go home or even had ten minutes to herself in a two month period she couldn't possibly have any idea what I had gone through. Just like what you are saying.

[@atheistsfightclub6684]

Assumption is a powerful tool on the human workbench Drogo Baggins, for bridging gaps of knowledge and empathising with another persons experience without really sharing it, but like any tool we have to know how to use it, and more importantly when not to, too many assume an expertise they really don't have and build castles in the air that are nothing but assumption on assumption on assumption. I've watched my share of army movies but while Biloxi Blues might open a window onto life in a boot camp, i know it couldn't be further from actually living it. Everyone likes to think of themselves as insightful but it's the old story, we remember the hits as significant and dismiss the misses as flukes, I'm reminded of a date i had once with a wiccan who fancied herself as something of a witch, not the first or the last, i seem to attract them, she tried to do a cold reading of me halfway through, why i don't know, if she had half the insight she thought she had she'd have known what a bucket of ice water it dumped over everything, but i guess whatever mutual ego stroking groups she escaped from reality with convinced her that she had a gift, and no amount of grimaces on my part could warn her off of making 'expert' pronouncements about my life. It was embarrassing how far she was off the mark, and annoying as hell when she insisted that she was spot on but i was wallowing too deeply in self dellusion to realise it, and painful to see her absolute belief in the psuedo psychobabble bull she was spouting with such confidence.

[@LarkLaTroy]

Like you, Paul, I was a believer, converted by my mother at a young age, raised in the evangelical church, groomed to be a minister, and educated in private xtian schools. It was not till my years in the US Coast Guard when I started to seriously examine what I believed and why. Mostly because it didn't matter how hard I prayed, my shipmates where the only people or entities I could rely on during some dangerous and frightening rescues. I started researching history, archeology, mythology, comparative religions and asked a whole lot of questions that I never received any valid answers to. Now, when someone says to me, "I used to be an atheist like you", I do much like Matt, and ask them for the OBJECTIVE EMPERICAL evidence that convinced them to become a believer. To date, none has been provided, and when I ask them the same questions I've been asking for a couple of decades now, I still do not get any valid answers.

[@Paulogia]

Glad we found our way out.

[@markmooroolbark252]

@@Paulogia Is your first instinct to doubt the veracity of someone who claims they were once an atheist because it does in fact add weight to their newfound religious beliefs? If someone I have just met tells me a "fact" about themselves, I tend to take them at their word. Do you doubt C S Lewis when he claims to have been an atheist for a number of years? Do you think Antony Flew is a liar or senile for changing his mind about atheism and deciding to believe in an intelligence behind the universe? Matt Delahunty's position seems to be one of scorn and denigration. Dawkins responded in the same manner. Why is this so often the response to conversions from non belief to belief? I don't doubt you when you claim to have been a believer. You cannot prove your years of belief were anything more than an elaborate charade to make your "conversion" to atheist all the more powerful and impressive. Some people will do anything to build the number of subscribers to their channel. But I take you at your word. Perhaps you could so the same until you have evidence that suggests they are liars.

[@markmooroolbark252]

@Warstar Why did you ignore everything I wrote and write an angry diatribe? What evidence do I need to support what I wrote to Paulogia?

[@markmooroolbark252]

@Warstar Don't give me a shopping list. Write a clear refutation of what I wrote.

[@markmooroolbark252]

@Warstar I love the bitterness and vitriol! So invested. So attached. Unhinged. Wallow in it.

[@tomboughan2718]

am reminded of Lee Strobel, who claimed to have been an atheist. It turns out he just doesn't give God much thought, but later want to believe, so he went out of his way reaching for some reason to believe.

[@stevewebber707]

I have never had the ill fortune to get "I used to be an atheist" in real life. My limited exposure in videos has only shown pandering to Christians with poor characterizations of atheism, and little good justification for their conversion.. The language itself seems odd to me because as far as I'm concerned, everyone used to be an atheist as a default position before they learned about God. A more honest presentation might be "why I'm not an atheist". The "I used to be an atheist" productions are usually so poorly done that I'm usually uninterested in even seeing them addressed in rebuttal. I almost didn't watch this video, but as I trust Paul to put out quality work I did watch and at least got some interesting conversation, and food for thought. I could wish a lot of "I used to be an atheist" videos ended up on the cutting room floor.

[@rrconly]

I had one... Crazy guy who told me loads and loads of stories about how his parents were hardened atheists and he was raised an atheist but 'came to Christ' as a teen and his parents would beat him if he prayed. He even said he went to UCLA and got a degree in biology and that the school refused to give him his degree because he was a committed Christian by that time. He had to sue to school to get his degree - so I had a lawyer friend of mine to investigate it. No case found when confronted he said he changed his name in order to protect him from all the threats he was getting from the atheist professors in the school. Yeah - king of the special pleading fallacy!

[@stevewebber707]

@@rrconly It is possible that there is a grain of truth to his story. I have heard of Christians intentionally answering test questions with creationist answers instead of scientifically correct ones. It's certainly possible for such a person to file suit, but I hope such a suit would fail hard. The constitution gives the right to worship and believe things as we choose. I don't think it protects the right to claim them as true in court. There are other potential religious discrimination scenarios that are possible at least. The changing his name because of threats form professors seems unlikely to be factually true. The potential for a Christian zealot to have a persecution complex and changing his name as a result sounds plausible. It is odd how so many people seem to believe that being persecuted must somehow grant credence to what they were persecuted for. Basically arguing if someone believes something more strongly, it must be more likely to be true. Persecution complexes seem comfortable for some Christians as it seems to bolster their personal belief , and gives a chance to paint opponents as some evil oppressors.

[@stevewebber707]

@S Gloobal Yes, that video was done with more intellectual honesty than many I've seen. There is a problem with any appeal using "I used to be an atheist" arguments. It is not relevant unless the audience accepts the reasoning process that changed the persons mind from atheism. Such as example is not going to be convincing in a superficial examination from a short video. It is at best capable of convincing someone with superficial beliefs or understanding, or reaffirming someones existing beliefs. Give me a shout when intelligent design has real scientific merit as a theory.

[@0x777]

@@rrconly This just in: Religious nut is full of ... brown smelly mass.

[@stevewebber707]

@S Gloobal Intelligent design is not a scientific theory, and claiming that God did it has no explanatory power. "Only intelligent minds bring things into existence" is nonsense. Stop with the "but atheists can't explain..." BS. Atheists don't need to explain anything of the sort because you are not critiquing atheism, you are critiquing science.

[@ferrumignis]

I remember one of the callers to Matt's show explained he used to be a high ranking atheist in the "inner circle"!

[@cnault3244]

It was probably Chad, he was always bragging about being in the inner circle... but he never figured out we only let him join the inner circle because he always bought the beer.

[@ParanormalEncyclopedia]

Uh oh the inner circle thats serious stuff. I forget is the inner circle the one where they worship Satan and his prophet Darwin or is it just when they start swapping the really good roast baby recipes and the worship thing starts in the Super Duper Secret Inner Circle?

[@mattsmith1440]

If the number of babies you've sacrificed in your life is less than one, you've probably never been: A) A 'true' atheist B) The Christian God.

[@glorrin]

Does that mean that this god is atheist? Wait it actually makes sense if it did so many mistakes it is because it didn't believe in itself.

[@Julian0101]

@@glorrin Well, i have heard many "christian" trolls saying atheists believe themselves god, so yeah under their definition the christian god is atheist.

[@thelakesterswildworld8335]

@ezeeckiel Well, it doesn't have to be in the name of a god. It could be the name of, anything really. Like sacrificing your life to save someone else.

[@Julian0101]

@Saros N Nah, even god wouldnt be able to solve solipsism. Specially fake gods that are sold as "God".

[@Julian0101]

​@Saros N Sure, that is why i dont believe in fake gods. Indeed, that is why solipsism shut down that silly claim.

[@sulas548]

In my experience almost all of the 'later in life' Christians, that I have met personally, have had some horrible event happen to them that has left them rudderless in an indifferent world and they have turned to a random god to try to make sense of their predicament. These issues range from the loss of a loved one through divorce or death, terminal illness of themselves or a loved one, substance abuse, mental health problems, financial problems etc etc. For me it always begs the question of why a loving god would send a shit storm into someone's life just to garner more mindless sycophants. Surely he could come up with a kinder more loving method to make his presence known.

[@TheCheapPhilosophy]

Hi, God here. Though I could give infinite evidence of myself to anyone's' satisfaction, would rather go with apologists claiming that faith is more important... And that you also need more faith to be an atheist! There. I have the cake and I also ate it. Checkmate in checkers, atheists!

[@TheCheapPhilosophy]

@Trolltician Ah, yes. I do not work, in mysterious ways. Privileges of bearing a title. :p

[@themaster408]

"But then we'd all have to love him and he doesn't want robots". This was the response when I asked why doesn't god show evidence. I then replied more or less "I didn't ask why doesn't he force us to love him, he can prove he exists and I still won't worship the monster"

[@TheCheapPhilosophy]

@@themaster408 It depends on the mythology. For example, in the Christian tale the devil knows the God, yet chooses against him. Therefore, that excuse is refuted by their own theology... And that is how we know most Christians do not care about forcing logic, but comfy feelings.

[@fredworthmn]

Funny ….

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

@@TheCheapPhilosophy I've used that exact line a number of times on people. Also you can reference James 2:19 for an exact verse. "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder."

[@FlashGeiger]

Kinda like some 10 year old kid saying that actually he does now believe in Santa Clause again. Probably trying to hop back on a gravy train, like these tv evangelist types.

[@markmooroolbark252]

Why would any serious person equate belief in a higher intelligence or creator with belief in Santa Claus? It is cringeworthy.

[@brucebaker810]

13 year old Timmy: I used to be an aSantaist,

[@brucebaker810]

@@markmooroolbark252 The analogy applies from outside your bubble.

[@Heroltz998]

Current atheist, have always been an atheist. I think Matt touches on a point I have (and many others have also) noticed that when a "former atheist" surfaces, there are usually two possible scenarios that happen: 1) a professional apologist tells everyone how he used to be an atheist, he was a jerk to everyone, nothing mattered, he was all around horrible person etc. This in my opinion happens because a professional apologist *cannot* admit that there could be something good to atheists, so they *need* to depict themselves as no-good people pre-conversion in order to preserve the scriptures' description of non-believer. That makes me sick and I loath those people. 2) a "non-professional apologist" tells his conversion story, and to a very high degree of confidence it contains an emotional reasoning for turning into a believer. It is a form of "look at the trees", "such complexity, much design, wow" (both which Matt said in his tangent) or plain old psychological warfare in the form of a loved one bombarding them with their belief. Usually the "psyops option" involves falling in love with someone who has a religious convinction, so there is another strong emotional reason to be convinced that the faith is real. Once in a while there is a loss of a loved one, which is naturally a sad occurance, and it seems to me the hope to see that loved one again just drives the need to have these beliefs so they aren't "really" gone. Either way the former atheist conversions very rarely involve any kind of actual rational thought. I've heard some people say they did some examination of something, like a shroud of Turin, and couldn't debunk it or whatever and now are believers. Usually incredible leaps of logic are included, such is "I've examined the shroud of Turin claim, there is only one person in recorded history who have the wound patterns that are in the shroud, therefore it can only be Jesus so he is the son of The God(tm) and christianity is true". I just hope those people stretched properly before reaching for those conclusions.

[@0x777]

1) So he is a jerk but kept in check by his supernatural CCTV. Great. May he never lose his faith. 2) So he's gullible and prone to brainwashing. In other words, he's a Christian until someone comes along with a better detergent.

[@Sammie551]

Their position for what they mean by "Atheist" is immoral, which is idiotic

[@patpawlowski7635]

Boy, the old “it took more faith to stay being an atheist than a Christian” line bothers me.

[@paulswannack1039]

Point out the cognitive dissonance in that statement. On one hand, the religious person is wanting to convince you that faith is a valid form of evidence, and then on the other hand, they disparage the notion of faith when they suspect it is being used as evidence for someone else’s position that they don’t accept. The statement is a telling slip that displays how little they actually value faith as evidence when they aren’t willing to overlook its obvious flaws.

[@patmorrow6872]

Pat Palowski if faith is a virtue and it takes more faith to be an atheist then atheist are more virtuous the Christians. I guess we should take it as a compliment....?

[@patpawlowski7635]

pat morrow faith is virtue as far as I’m concerned

[@paddlefar9175]

pat morrow Good one Pat! Good one! I hope I get to use that come back some day, at least I have faith that I might. 😝

[@RHatcherMD]

How do I respond, as an atheist, when someone tells me they used to be one? "Of course you were. You were born."

[@scottlaughlin1528]

Love this! Whenever I hear someone say, "I used to be an atheist...", in my head I immediately think, I'll bet money you weren't. Then every person that has claimed this, to me at least, goes on to prove me right. That's not to say there aren't atheists that have become theists, but I've never personally experienced anyone that has.

[@pierrelindgren5727]

I was an atheist that [Insert description of self-serving misanthropic hedonism here] and only able to rein in my destructive behaviour because of the grace of god. -Apologist

[@craigcorson3036]

Rein in, not reign in. Reign means to rule.

[@thefoxamongwolves9843]

Which can then be translated as "I need god otherwise I will do the awful things I want"

[@pauligrossinoz]

... _Lying_ Apologist. There ... fixed it!

[@cheesburgr]

I've been seeing a lot of videos and call-ins with people claiming to be former atheists lately. Has anyone else noticed that kind of recent uptick? Particularly with the phrase "inner-circle atheist". Seems like a red flag to me, almost certainly a lie, but I don't love to call people liars.

[@CausalityLoop]

I've never met a theist that could accurately argue the atheist position, while the most knowledgeable atheists (like Matt, and Paulogia can do it too) can easily argue for theism better than many theists.

[@BigHeretic]

*The Stig* That's a very good point and reminds me of an apologist the other day on this or similar channel who couldn't see a flat Earther's position ; "I'm looking at a hill, how's that flat?" was his take on it. Their thinking is so two dimensional that anything other than 'god did it' has them flummoxed.

[@wunnell]

@@BigHeretic *"Their thinking is so two dimensional"* No pun intended, right? ;-)

[@gamingdragon1356]

The theist think exactly like that as well , you think your experts know better and vice versa .

[@wunnell]

@@gamingdragon1356 , they may think so but they are wrong. The difference is that even those theists who claim to have been atheists generally don't describe themselves as having been what atheists are. They usually describe a theistic strawman of an atheist. Many theists, on the other hand, used to be the very same type of theists that they argue against. They were 100% bible-believing Christians who have come to understand why what they believed was wrong. If a theist says that they were an atheist but they realised that they were just mad at god then they were, by definition, not an atheist. If an atheist says that they realise that what they perceived as being messages from god were just their own inner thoughts, they are talking about the very same messages from god that other theists are talking about.

[@gamingdragon1356]

@@wunnell How are you hundred percent bible believing christian when you are involved in drugs , don't pray etc . The point is you are defining what it means to be a christian but they are wrong when they they know what it means to be an atheist and that is very hypocritical in itself . That points itself as fundamentalist . That is only my belief about atheism and theism is correct .

[@MMAGamblingTips]

You’re great Paul. Always excellent content! 👍🏼

[@CharlesHuckelbery]

Good video. Thanks for sharing it with us. Your efforts are appreciated and keep up your great work.

[@Paulogia]

Much appreciated!

[@CharlesHuckelbery]

@@Paulogia you are welcome.

[@JohnSmith-xf1zu]

When I became an Atheist, a friend sent me a video on an "Atheist" converting to Christianity. All it was is someone, who never actually considered why he didn't believe in a god, grew up with christian influences, and, after extinguishing himself with a week of christian camp his sister invited him to, experienced strong feelings during a song at the camp. Suffice to say, the video was entirely irrelevant as to why I and many others became Atheist.

[@roqsteady5290]

A highly intelligent school friend I once knew caught a bad dose of evangelical religion and it did appear to me to be some strange form of mental affliction, apparently brought on by some unhappy affair of the heart.

[@thehotyounggrandpas8207]

I used to be an atheist. I still am.

[@FR_THPEPL]

Telling kids that they are going to hell needs to be labeled as child abuse!!!!

[@cryptofacts4u]

Loved the video!

[@vegasflyboy67]

They're still atheist to all other anthropomorphic magic men, but their own.

[@bobskane4353]

I watched the 10 minute bible hour guy do his "I used to be an atheist" video. He never points out any particular argument that challenged his belief in God. When he experienced doubt he then ran to the bible (you know, the one he no longer believes because he is an atheist) and finds out "It's all about God" Mind blown! The bible is about GOD- who knew...? I was laughing at the comment section and all the "I used to be and atheist too" testimonies...

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Your content is amazing and the work you do is invaluable!

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

I don’t by when somebody like Daniel Barker says that he was a pastor for 19 years.

[@haven4304]

After all the non-theist arguments I heard and watch, from your channel and others, I no longer take the claim of 'I used to be an atheist' seriously anymore. The statement could come from the fact that they were just a non-diligent religious person, or just never thought about the other side, and then blowing those up as if they're actual atheist, or they just say that to get an extra standings within the argument. Definitely a no true scotsman fallacy, but the amount of times i heard this statement recently led me to believe that it is used as a tactics nowadays. If I do come upon someone who states it, I'll do what Matt does. Ask what made them change, and if it still isn't a sufficient evidence/mostly a personal experience, then just say that you don't accept the evidence, and move on.

[@davidroberts1689]

Thanks, Paul. I used to be an atheist until I received some pain killers for my surgery and God was revealed to me. Then I recovered from my pain killers and I'm back to being an atheist again, appreciating all of nature and humanity when humanity is humane.

[@aspektx]

Wow--those were some high end painkillers. Most I've ever experienced was a mild euphoria and sleepiness.

[@pennymitchell8523]

Love you Paul from Australia

[@Cat_Woods]

"I'm not entirely sure I buy it." Me too. That is, I'm entirely sure I don't buy it.

[@brucebaker810]

That's hard and soft usedtobeanatheistism.

[@brucebaker810]

oops. ausedtobeanatheistism?

[@theawesomematt3453]

It doesn't bother me much when I hear "I used to be an Atheist". I'm more curious of current beliefs than past ones. But it is a red flag when I hear "I used to be an Atheist" followed by a list of actions to show they were a terrible person (at least in their mind). At best this tells me we are using two different definitions.

[@Paulogia]

I'd agree with that.

[@justabill5780]

I'm an atheist. But I set aside my atheist perspective when I watch films like "the Exorcist". I believe they call it "suspension of disbelief". But as soon as the credits roll, reason and logic take over again.

[@ravenwda007]

It’s not even scary

[@justabill5780]

@@ravenwda007 ; I disagree.

[@Azrael666Azazel]

I tend to just roll my eyes whenever someone mentions that they used to be a wicked atheist but now believe. I'm not saying people can't change their minds, but the stories that they tell often strain credulity.

[@defiance1790]

The Appeal to Age fallacy goes in the opposite direction from the Appeal to Novelty fallacy by arguing that when something is old, then this somehow enhances the value or truth of the proposition in question. Wow... I never thought Matt would base his part in a video off of a fallacy

[@dagonpoint]

Ooh! Paulogia and Matt! Yes! *fist pump*

[@walterbrooks2329]

I used to be an atheist. I still am, but I used to be too.

[@bobstrayer9004]

I became an atheist at age 10 as a result of summer bible school. I asked where Cain's wife came from, and the teacher called me a bad christian because I lacked faith.

[@kinoko5566]

I was an ardent atheist in high school but didn't understand why I was an atheist, just knew religion was weird. In my early 20`s I was broke with a kid and a local church gave us food and clothing. I bought into it. Went every Sunday, defended creationism, and just didn't question it. I claimed to want facts by reading books like "The Case for Christ" and believed it. It took about 5 years for me to question what I was learning. Fortunately I've been religion free for several years now.

[@rumrunner8019]

I wasn't an "atheist" per se, but I did reject a personal God and an afterlife. Now, I believe in Reincarnation. And I'll give my evidence why: Dr. Ian Stevenson was a psychiatrist who spent his entire career studying the phenomena of children with memories of past lives. He even went so far as to track down the people the child remembered being and finding collaborating details that could in no way be known to either the children or their families. And this wasn't under hypnosis or anything but rather a toddler just having vivid, waking memories of a past life. Some of his studies were criticized for focusing on cases in Asia where belief in reincarnation was widespread, and so he did another round of studies in Europe and he found similar results. His studies were published in several peer reviewed journals and even Carl Sagan said that the topic clearly warranted further research. While his work is not a slam dunk by any stretch, it does point in the direction of reincarnation being real. Here's an article about it in Scientific America: blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/ian-stevensone28099s-case-for-the-afterlife-are-we-e28098skepticse28099-really-just-cynics/ The next piece of evidence is the fact that reincarnation is a very specific afterlife that is believed in by multiple civilizations around the world. From Asia to Africa to Europe, from the Celts to the Indians to the Inuit to the Yoruba, so many cultures who never had any contact with one another have the same belief. It seems odd that so many different cultures could have the same belief unless there was some fundamental truth to it. That is not a slam dunk by any stretch, I admit The next piece of evidence is the Tibetan Buddhist way of finding a Tulku (reincarnated lama) They use signs at the time of the first lama's death and then look for children a few years later who fit the bill. They take the candidates and have them pick, out of four, which bowl was there's, which malas (prayer beads) were there's, which bell was there's, and which sandals were there's. They sit them there with four of each item, and they have to pick which one was there's in a past life. If they're wrong on just one, they don't make the cut. It usually only take one of two candidates before they can find one who can pick out all four. So, they never have to go through more than three candidates until they reach one who can do it, and the odds of it randomly happening are 1 in 256. Again, not a slam dunk, but it points in that direction. When I combined the peer-reviewed, lifetime work of Dr. Ian Stevenson, the fact that cultures around the world had the same concept before they had any contact with one another, and the way in which Tibetan Buddhists successful find Tulkus against mathematical odds, I'm left to conclude that Reincarnation is true. I will change my opinion when evidence refuting reincarnation is greater than evidence in favor of it.

[@theamazingstu]

I think Matt is brilliant as a cartoon. Great video, mate.

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

Well, once my mom told me to look at the life of some ex-preacher she heard about, that now had converted to catholicism and was truly happy. Then... well, I mean, I said that I knew the case of a guy (Matt Dillahunty), who was studying to be a preacher, and started to do research, and now he was happy finally being honest and doing activism from the atheist community.

[@frankeinstein7990]

"Used to be an atheist? You used to be right."

[@christopherseton-smith7404]

This theist would suggest that poor Sir Anthony's recantation in the throws of what sounds to me like dementia (with family first hand experience), perilously like abuse.

[@richardgay7990]

I use to have no control of sin in my life and Jesus set me free. Winning!

[@knutthompson7879]

"I don't have enough faith to be an atheist." So is faith good or bad? I was always told by theists (Christian theists at any rate) that faith is the most important thing in one's life. Then they say they couldn't possibly be atheists because it requires faith (well, not really, but that's what they claim). Very strange.

[@0x777]

The beauty about being an athist is that you don't need faith. Our world can actually be explained. The less beautiful thing about it is that you have to learn to understand it. That's quite unattractive to lazy people who'd prefer to just wave a hand and believe stuff.

[@BigHeretic]

*Howard Thompson* Ha! I didn't even see that one. Yes, they don't even listen to what comes out of their mouths. It doesn't matter much though, that's not for our ears - it's for other theists who won't analyse it, they'll just accept that it's clever and that it confirms what they believe.

[@diamondflaw]

I was raised as an agnostic atheist simply because no theology was presented to me, In college I became a Christian very simply because it was presented to me as a structure where I had none... Now I would describe myself as an empirical agnostic.

[@AbleAnderson]

Still no acknowledgement from Cameron that Matt and Paulogia tore his video apart. He remains blissfully ignorant.

[@Paulogia]

Sometimes that's a nice way to live.

[@0x777]

He's pining for Matt 5:3

[@BigHeretic]

*AbleAnderson* "Blissfully ignorant" - says it all.

[@joetrost8467]

I would like to know how apologists respond to where god gives believers joy in the bible and he doesn't give joy to all the people that lived and died before jesus

[@Andrew_O]

Hilarious having an instrumental rendition of "In The End" from Linkin Park play behind comical videos depicting Eve in the garden of Eden as that was the beginning of the end...(or was that the end of the beginning?)

[@uncle0eric]

I'm not sure I can get rid of the envy I feel at the animated cartoon versions of you and Matt in this video.

[@dragongirl7978]

Dude, you missed the perfect opportunity! You should have said "where a former Christian takes a look at the claims of former atheists" for today's show. 😥😉

[@pedroheilel130]

Matt is one of a hell communicator!!!

[@SaiScribbles]

I'm an atheist and skeptical of people who say they "used to be an atheist". Especially ones that say the Bible of all things convinced them. Usually they are the types who had doubts maybe for a year or two and then reaffirmed their beliefs and think that's a good argument for their agenda. There ARE some people who dove deep into a religion as a reaction to some hardship or grief, and I won't berate them for that, though I'll still gently disagree.

[@pauligrossinoz]

Yeah ... actually reading the Bible gives you a long list of horrors that would convince any reasonable person that Christianity is just absurd.

[@wadler00]

Is it co-incidental that the most honest processes of reasoning is denied to any position/s that rely on assumptions and presuppositions.

[@timhallas4275]

When someone says "I used to be like you"..(meaning atheist), I always say,, " NO, you used to be like I was.. (agnostic),but then you found your limits of understanding,, and I moved on from there to KNOW there are no gods. That is the real difference. You didn't acquire better information... I did.

[@themaster408]

As an atheist and sorta an anti-theist, you can't ever KNOW there are no gods in the same way you don't KNOW there's no pink elephants. You can't disprove a negative. However, until there's evidence of pink elephants, there's no reason to believe they exist. Leave the burden of proof on those making the claim. If you claim there are no gods, then you need to prove it. Let the theists prove there is a god, if they can't prove it, then there's no reason to believe.

[@protoborg]

@@themaster408 You are not an atheist. You are an agnostic. Scientifically speaking, a lack of credible evidence to support a proposition is tantamount to the proposition being untrue.

[@themaster408]

@@protoborg Pretty sure I know what I am. Theist = belief in god. Deist = belief in some kind of higher power. Atheist (as in, A-theist / anti-theist) = not belief in god. Agnostic is claiming no one can know. Gnostic is that you do know. You can be a Gnostic Theist, Gnostic Atheist, Agnositc Theist, Gnostic Theist. I self-identify with Atheist since I lack a belief in any deity or god. I don't claim to know there isn't a god, but I'm not fully on board with no way of knowing. There's ways of knowing some gods don't exist (other than the radical 'you're a head in a jar'). Please read up on these from non-Christian sites people, learn the actual definitions instead of what religious people claim they are.

[@timhallas4275]

@@themaster408 If I say Harry Potter ( the actual sorcerer from the movie) lives nearby and does actual magic tricks all the time, would you accept that as "maybe true"? There might be pink elephants, because baby elephants could be pink when they are born, but I can say there are no 500 foot tall elephants, because that is absolutely not possible. So, by the same reasoning, if the laws of physics make it seem impossible for a being to exist without a brain AND we know that people made up such things all throughout history, I will go out on a limb and say the "God" everyone thinks created the universe and us, is something we made up. Can it still exist? Can Harry Potter live next door? Evidence to the contrary is my ace in the hole.

[@timhallas4275]

@@themaster408 What? NO RESPONSE? I thought you had all the answers?

[@qzh00k]

necessity, why is god necessary other than for judgement? We use our rather crap court system anyway. What was the topic?

[@ericsbuds]

new computer! nice!!

[@drandrewmitchell]

Hi Paul, there’s a fantastic book by Emmanuel Carrere titled The Kingdom where he discusses his journey from being raised secular, to converting to a devout Catholic, to deconverting back to atheism. He parallels his journey with the conversion and ministry of Paul and tackles the self doubts he has felt at the various stages of his beliefs. He particularly calls attention to notes he left for his future self while he was a Catholic warning him not to turn away from God and not to trust his own feelings, drawing upon Paul’s letters to his followers warning them not to trust even Paul himself if he were to teach differently in the future. It’s arguably my favourite book and well worth checking out!

[@josegaleano1530]

So you say you use to be an atheist what are you now espiritual tax collector

[@owlbme]

💚 *quality content* 💚

[@TheLuckySpades]

Prophet of Zod has a great video on this actually

[@PaulEmsley]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5nJXoufqqZ1p7c

[@TheLuckySpades]

@@PaulEmsley thanks for linking

[@challengingoldhollywoodmyt2934]

I'm always suspicious when a christian claims to be a "former atheist" because their accounts are often so melodramatic.

[@disrxt]

I just tell them, "It's obvious you weren't a true atheist." =-)

[@YY4Me133]

😊

[@matthewrhorer137]

this is my favorite comment, its exactly what I was thinking.

[@laurajarrell6187]

Paulogia, these are great. As for someone saying "I used to be an atheist', I'm afraid that, while I don't say it, my first thought is 'I bet you'd never thought about it'. lol, no true Scotsman, anyone? But, invariably, no. They still haven't looked critically at their texts. Nor usually too much about the arguments against it. Though, they probably aren't going full, flat earth creatard. I can usually, with a few questions, find this out. I don't try to change their minds, I let them hopefully do that. 👍👏💝☮️🎃🐝

[@fudgesauce]

A good Catholic friend insisted I really need to read "Mere Christianity" that CS Lewis presents an argument that is so powerful there. Lewis was making unfounded claims before the 2nd page, and it got worse from there. But also in those first few pages, Lewis says he spent his teen years as an atheist after spending his childhood as a faithful Christian. As he explains it, when is mother died, Lewis got angry with God and stopped believing in him. He spent years angry with God before a friend talked him back into the fold. I can understand his anger, but that didn't make him an atheist ... just an angry Christian.

[@TheTdroid]

The few times this has happened to me, I've simply tried to explain that their arguments still need to meet *my* standards for acceptable evidence. That it convinced someone else has no bearing on that.

[@Paulogia]

Good answer.

[@Desertphile]

There has never been a human who was not once an atheist.

[@atheistsfightclub6684]

The "I used to be an atheist" business plan, good for book sales and invitations as a paid speaker.

[@Paulogia]

If I become a Christian again, I could be rich.

[@atheistsfightclub6684]

Well Shannon could make anyone think there must be a god if she pouted her way through Happy birthday Mr President. =D

[@grannykiminalaska]

My half sister, who I met just a year ago, said this to me. It took a lot of restraint to not block her instantly

[@brucebaker810]

maybe your half sister used to be half atheist.

[@EmersumBiggins]

“Second hand revelation”🙂

[@iamTheSnark]

I was raised as a Christian, but loosely so. I was never a fundamentalist, I saw what was being presented in school, and that was a coherent and consistent set of observations and theories that explained the world that we live in, to the best of our capabilities. I did not know the Bible all that well, so I was not focused on contradictions. Next, we had absolutely fabulous ministers (we call them "dominee" over here). Honestly, they were fantastic, and I've known quite a bunch of them. I even prepared services with them (when I was already well under way to become an atheist) where I would be co-responsible for the hymns. Great stuff! As a singer and someone who appreciates classical music, I have sung requiems, masses and more religious pieces, in choirs, sometimes even doing solo parts. But all that did not make it true, and the more I learned, the less I cared about going to church (except when there was serious singing to be done) and now I can only be mildly amazed that it took me so long. I got married when I was 27, my children were baptised! My 30s were the era where my belief dwindled to the extent that I can now (62, no less) call myself a strong atheist. That did not stop me from getting ordained as a priest, as a Pastafarian and a Dudist. Online. Duh.

[@yaddahyaddahyaddah2709]

In most cases I prefer people, who can say they were never an atheist, over the ones who seem to say that they used to be an atheist in any public forum

[@waynemills206]

One thing about theists, they share the same lowly stamp of every human. Deception, deflection and denial are tools used when we are challenged.

[@BigHeretic]

*Wayne Mills* I disagree, I think they have more than their fair share of deception, deflection and denial, a bit like an office worker has more paper clips and staple removers than they should have at home.

[@waynemills206]

@@BigHeretic Of course you are correct. I was being charitable in an ironic way. We should expect better behavior from anyone who claims access to a higher moral guide, and yet we see nothing of the sort. In fact this behavior is demonstrable in any primate species under similar situations of conflict. Lying for Jesus is apparently a very natural thing to do.

[@dmack1209]

Not one coloured Eve, which would of been more accurate to