"Restoring Unity in the LCMS" with Rev. Dr. Christian Preus | Lead Time

[@ThePodcastPastor]

Wow, I wish we had these kind of pastors on the west Coast

[@kaliki76]

Thank you Pr.Preus for articulating why we conduct the Divine Service the way we do. It definitely matters.

[@ChrisBaird-xi5se]

I truly enjoyed this chat. Pastor Preus is our pastor, we transfered to Mt Hope about 1.5 years ago. We absolutely cherish our time there and our children will begin attending the school this fall. My wife grew up in another synod and I was raised in a charismatic background. I can say with firm resolution the LCMS and the adhereance to traditional service, worship and study; has strengthened my faith, our marriage and our ability to rear Godly children. We cherish all of our pastors here and I can tell you without reservation Dr. Rev. Preus is as genuine, dedicated and delightful as they come. Thanks for the great content!

[@Susan-up5mh]

I enjoyed the podcast Pastor Preus very much. I am especially glad that you value hymn singing in the home. Sadly, not many play the piano anymore, but with all of the hymn tunes available, there really is not excuse for not learning and singing them. I love all types of music, but can't imagine a worship service without our traditional hymns. I am frustrated with contemporary songs that use love and praise many times but don't really say anything meaningful. I would contrast them with the powerful words of Stricken, Smitten, and Afflicted or the joyful words of the Ascension hymn A Hymn of Glory Let Us Sing.

[@ajpreus]

Lisa is the best. ❤

[@larryqueen924]

Loved the depth and intelligence of this conversation. Praying for both of you.

[@timahlman6050]

Grateful for you, Larry!

[@ajpreus]

Thanks for these podcasts, Tim. I hooe to see you at the convention. I can tell that your aim is very biblical. One thought I have had about the issue of church music, which relates to misson: We need to onow our context as well as our heritage. We should share what we have as Lutherans, and this requires us to know what we have. And THEN let those in our context make it their own. I had a dear friend named Silas, a young black man from south Chicago who found his way into my small town. I taught him "Salvation Unto Us Has Come," and I was very impressed by how he made it his own. He sang it wirh reverence while also in his own lively way. I found myself following his lead as he sang. There is more to say about composing new music, which I am certainly in favor of. But I just wanted to share my two cents on sharing what you have and allowing people the freedom to make it their own. Thanks again for your interviews!

[@timahlman6050]

Thanks, Andrew! Love that story!

[@LXX-Mercedes]

Yes, so strange how brothers and sisters can not sing in service, such beautiful hymns

[@johntobey1558]

I love singing too brother. It us essential for worship. I am not stoic. As a memtal healrh professiinal the stoicism can often tine be undiagnosed clinical depression.

[@taylor48264]

I really enjoyed this podcast, especially the part about creating a Christian culture in the home

[@rangerswampyclay]

Would love to hear another episode on the gods of this age. Some of the Preus boys have had similar talks on that with the Gottesdienst podcast and I couldn't have been more glued to those talks.

[@johnj.flanagan-hymnsoffaith]

The best way to find unity is to embrace biblical integrity and proceed from there. To be Christocentric and to preach ‘Christ crucified,’ is the main thing. I have been in four LCMS churches and found that there was little uniformity in sermons, some good, some too casual and superficial, as well as in the worship style with liturgical differences and banal contemporary services. Congregations can’t resist putting their own particular spin, and implement changes at will. When I was a Catholic in my youth, up to about age 40, and went to a service anywhere I happened to travel in the military, the services were fairly uniform, but earlier in life, the Latin Mass was particularly uniform in whatever church you happened to visit. Later, the Catholic Church changed and it is now anything but uniform, having become diverse and culturally compliant. The Catholic Church has only unity under the centralized false doctrines proceeding before and unaffected by the struggles of the Reformation. Today, as in the past, unity even in the LCMS is elusive, perhaps unattainable. Best to go back to a simple Apostolic “Christ centered” focus. Religion, like politics and social change, is seldom uniform, and is subject to the whims of cultural and worldly influences, a form of vain pride, a common human trait.

[@ZigmasOfSamogitia]

Awesome interview!

[@NewYakSouth]

Wonderful discussion on the beauty and purpose of the Devine Service. What I have witnessed, in the "contemporary service" practicing LCMS congregations, is an attempt to become more like the celebration churches...thinking it will boost attendance and increase contributions, which has become more important to their survival than doctrine and practice. They are trying to provide entertainment to those who feel church is boring, they do not deny it. They think this is outreach. It is a marketing strategy. When it fails, it is rebranded as a "blended service", where they try mix hymns with praise music during the Devine Service. That too has failed.

[@followhim6502]

I totally disagree. Some people just prefer a contemporary style of worship and there is nothing wrong with that. Those of you who like traditional, keep it. Those of us who don't, let us worship in peace. There are many contemporary services that maintain true doctrine and proper sacraments. Just because you have failed to find one doesn't mean they don't exist. And to claim this is a marketing scheme is just ridiculous. I suggest you take some time reading Acts and how Paul understood the importance of being all things to all people. Don't confuse proper confessions with adiaphora.

[@NewYakSouth]

God bless, may you find God's peace in whatever style you choose @@followhim6502

[@margorice1]

I don’t care for contemporary worship, but I cannot see that it contradicts scripture.

[@brianwest6341]

Agreed. Those who claim that the contemporary services blended etc are simply a preferences issue are sadly misinformed about our scriptural examples of worship and have abandoned the confessions of the church where it applies to worship. Lex Orlandi Lex Crendende.

[@keithlcms1]

This was a very interesting conversation. Thank you. I graduated from Concordia Texas back in 1985. A very different time. Back in the day when I served in the Texas Army National Guard and flew over Concordia in a Vietnam era UH-1 helicopter and took aerial pictures of the original campus. I've also had the wonderful and amazing privilege to begin a new LCMS congregation in Winterset, Iowa - the hometown of John Wayne! Starting a new congregation in our day and age is no easy task. Much of our discussion about the decline within the LCMS tends to focus only on Christianity in the United States. Christianity in the United States is in decline and it's not coming back. But Lutheranism specifically is literally exploding in Africa, the Southern Rim, and the Pacific Rim. Personally, I believe that's where God is taking the Christian faith. Our most powerful witnessing strategy in the United States (at least in my own worthless opinion) is to believe, live, worship, and act like Lutherans. Thanks again for a great conversation. Blessings in Christ. Dr. Keith Schweitzer - Greenfield, Iowa

[@timahlman6050]

Thanks, Keith! We have much to learn from Lutheranism in the global south. Thank you for your service to our country and Jesus’ Church!

[@geoffmackey4671]

There is hope when I watch you interact. I thought LCMS was withstanding the progressive movement but I have read it is also turning that way. Your interaction is encouraging for the future of the LCMS. I would be probably be a Lutheran but the understanding of the physical presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a stumbling block for me.

[@krbohn101]

Took me a while to understand, but it is the best explanation with Biblical backing. Brian Wolfmueller might be a good start for helping toward understanding. Jordan Cooper as well.

[@hanspreus2581]

Great video. 👍

[@jeffarnold6638]

Pastor Tim is looking for documentation showing that Missouri Synod schools were originally intended to serve synodical members, not to be "missional" schools, as he believes. Article Ii of the Synod's original constitution, concerning the conditions under which a congregation may join synod and remain a member, point 6: "Provision of a Christian education for children of the congregation." The very next point under this article requires that the German language be used in synodical conventions. These people all spoke German. The reason for establishing congregational schools was to keep children from being left behind in English-speaking government schools.

[@christianpreus5318]

Thanks for this, Jeff! I'll commit that citation to memory.😊

[@padredave53]

Funny…Clint’s Poppe and I studied at Concordia University Wisconsin way back in the early 80’s. A “character” in the best sense of the word.

[@brycehedstrom374]

Love the idea of bi-vocational ministry - pastors that are working on the side to support themselves. Seems so logical. I saw this when I was in the charismatic movement. We need to instill more entrepreneurial spirit in our LCMS seminarians.

[@keithlcms1]

I forgot to mention. I'm a bi-vocational pastor. Yes, it is ministry for the future.

[@shareyourfate3903]

Interesting conversation. May education be rooted in sacred biblical doctrine, but may scholasticism not cloud the Missio Dei. Thank you both.

[@lisajones7756]

I find it is difficult to get educated in the Lutheran church if you don’t start out as a child in the Lutheran tradition. Let me explain if you go from reform or mainline Protestant to Lutheranism I am learning it by listening to issues etc, Dr Jordan Cooper, Pr Bryan Wolfmueller and I purchased a copy of The Book of Concord, most everything was not formalized learning like Sunday school (although I am trusting Jesus to get me there). I live close to the Chicago campus of Concordia and was kind of surprised to find that opportunity to study the Bible and the book of Concord wasn’t there. From my perspective the Lutheran church doesn’t have a clear path for adult converts it is rather frustrating that a large organization hasn’t seen this huge misalignment, as well as the large opportunity to pickup many disgruntled American evangelicals, it would help strengthen the church and help with the Pastor shortage the LCMS is facing. So far I find this denomination of Christianity faithful, and gospel centered and can not say anything negative at all about the doctrine, coming from Calvinist mindsets I appreciate the way Lutherans aren’t disregarding Gods word and coming up with doctrines like double predestination. Dividing Law and Gospel awesome. Please Lutheran church come up with something for us to guide us.

[@shellieperreault6262]

The local church doesn't have a Bible study or catechism class?

[@Ash-js2ig]

There should be a Bible information class for adults at any confessional lutheran church (wels, lcms). Most also have many bible study opportunities during Sunday and throughout the week.

[@lisajones7756]

@@Ash-js2ig I want to learn the Concordia The Lutheran Confessions before I join a church so I am equipped to make the best decision on a church. I live in the Chicago area and 3 blocks from the Concordia campus, just seems like there would be an opportunity there.

[@arlenehensley6753]

I always wanted to be a pastor too, but I was created the wrong sex. All of you men as so great! I wonder what God says?

[@mamachicken4602]

You were not created the wrong sex. We have deaconesses in the LCMS. Be glad that God created you a woman. Don't say to your creator "Why have you made me thus?" Ask Him to help you embrace your roles you were given.

[@ThePodcastPastor]

Just curious, why is the Lutheran Church by and large only available on Sundays? If we expect parents to teach about God in the home and provide a firm foundation it seems the parents would need to be educated in order to do that. Being available for a couple hours a week doesn't seem to do that.

[@huckleberry6540]

I agree have you spoken with your pastor to expand that with classes during the week nights focusing on scripture or the Devine service etc?

[@ThePodcastPastor]

@@huckleberry6540 no, not just for me. But I have 3 Lutheran Churches by me and they all follow the same format

[@davidw.5185]

Our parish offers Sunday and Wednesday services year round. Also, Bible Study classes on Sundays and Thursdays. Other opportunities are also available on other days. However, the people who largely take advantage of the various offerings are folks 50 and above. The younger crowd is focused more on the children's activities outside the Church. The culture shifted to this in the late 70s. If the economy ever shrinks and or goes very bad, people won't be able to afford "travel ball" and all the other costly activities that they spend all their time and money on. Maybe then the Church will take a more prominent role for the young. Idk

[@ThePodcastPastor]

@@davidw.5185 seems like the church must have skipped a generation. If the parents of today's children were raised in the church,they would have raised their children in the church

[@ThePodcastPastor]

@@davidw.5185 where is your church? I don't see anything like that in southern California

[@nicholasgraff655]

55:40 - If you’re going to start your own Lutheran gulag, for what I can only imagine will be very effective church workers, because of the “mission shift” of the Concordias, you might want to have some citations committed to memory.

[@carolkerfeld1764]

I grew up LCMS and witnessed 4 generations of disfunction - verbal, physical and sexual disfunction and told to be quiet about it and keep it behind closed doors so we look good in the church......and in my experience the pastors knew and never did anything ....

[@krbohn101]

Call them out and help the LCMS get rid of such a congregation. Truly sorry this happened, but with Christ, triumph over it and help others stop the bad within a good group.

[@carolkerfeld1764]

@@krbohn101 my faith is very strong. I am spiritual but no longer denominational

[@mloy1915]

Will Bloodletting be a class?

[@luther1546]

There was pretty decent unity at the LCMS Convention. Most of resolutions that should have been unanimous only had about 5% opposition. That 5% bothers me. It's just more progressive infiltration.

[@margorice1]

I have been a member of the LCMS for 26 years. Twenty years ago it was a happy church. Now it is so polarized. Recently someone at my church, an elder and LCMS convention rep, said she had no empathy for the mentally ill because she ‘can’t relate to them.’ Well, my question to her is can she have empathy for the homeless even though she has never been one of them? There is a Petri dish growing hate at my church and obviously this has nothing to do with Jesus. I also would like to add that my son (Asperger's) was treated absolutely abysmally by the youth group because he was different and the pastor eventually dismissed him from confirmation class because he could not "sit still" like the others. Both he and I were heartbroken. My husband says he will never set foot in that church again, and he is the one who first introduced me to the LCMS when we got married. Despite this, I have hung on for another eight years. A kid who was in my son's youth group and texted him encouraging him to kill himself is now in seminary and about to serve as an interim pastor. This is just plain wrong. At this point, I know I must leave. Jesus didn't marginalize. What's happened there is all about sin.

[@mamachicken4602]

@@margorice1 Women should not be elders. Your individual church is screwed up if that's the case. But that doesn't mean the LCMS has had an attempted takeover by white supremists. That's utterly absurd and you're engaging in hyperbole.

[@nilsalmgren4492]

I hope when he says have discussions based on God's word, he means the Bible and not including Lutheran documents.

[@tanneryellowcar]

Join the Orthodox Church☦️

[@Paladin1776a]

On Contemporary Worship... most is just anthropocentric garbage promulgated by "pastors" who want to gin up emotion vs relying on God's Word to do the work. We are not talking about worship "styles" or ministry context. There's some real underlying subversive motives going on here that cannot be glossed over.

[@brianwest6341]

Well said.

[@Paladin1776a]

Hate to break it to you but the LCMS is a complete lost cause... Big Tent, everything goes just about everywhere. Bottom line, it's a lack of trust in or fidelity to God's Word. The only solution is to split.

[@margorice1]

Then go to WELS or ELS.

[@Paladin1776a]

@@margorice1 Already done!

[@jakebredthauer5100]

​@@Paladin1776a The title of this video is "restoring unity". How is that an appropriate title? What is the issue they are alluding to? It looks to me like a lack of integrity on the part of the producer of this video. I feel like I have been ripped off.

[@Paladin1776a]

@@jakebredthauer5100 Agreed 100%, the LCMS is a lost cause, and this is an example of it.

[@huckleberry6540]

​@@Paladin1776a I was a lost cost and yet Christ brought me to him. I do not believe that the LCMS is a lost cause and God is still working through it. I'm sorry your experience was bad. I wish you would've stayed and tried to biblically bring it back to what wouldn't have been a lost cause and not simply abandoned it. But I don't even know what that looks like to you. Can you expand upon that? How is it a lost cause and where should it have gone before it was?