Results of Buffering your moves in Smash Ultimate

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[@Andre_101]

Nintendo "tries" to make it easier for casuals to short hop into an aerial by pressing 2 buttons. But its still a confusing solution for a simple answer. They should simply give the option to alter your controller for 2 types of jumps, short and full hop. There are 2 jump buttons, so its pretty simple.

[@KalebSDay]

André that should definitely at most be optional, if it was forced it would be horrible game design for what is a very simple technic.

[@Raven-gx4kj]

I think they did that because of the frame 3 jump squat

[@Andre_101]

@@KalebSDay yes, it should be optional. Like, they already give the option for tilts on the c-stick. Why not give the option for short and full hop buttons. And why not the option for just smash or just tilt attacks on the "a" button.

[@TheChucknoxus]

@@Raven-gx4kj wow really?

[@kiirbstomp]

@@Andre_101 wow Y for full hop and X for short hop would be sick

[@NoshuHyena]

Also, rolls or spotdodges get buffered when you use any out of shield option and try to buffer a shield upon landing (or are a little bit slow on releasing shield). It cherrypicks the inputs from your OOS move and interprets them as a roll/spotdodge. Huge oversight. Not to mention, if you try to shield or roll too late and get hit out of it, it automatically buffers an airdodge, so you better hope you're not near the ledge. It feels like the buffer system wasn't tested at all. Spread the word on how terrible it is, and maybe when enough people notice, it'll get fixed.

[@4xzx4]

How could they mess up something like that smh.

[@NoshuHyena]

I don't want to pick on low level players here because they're a valuable part of the community, but the internal testing team were probably all low level players who wouldn't have noticed these intricacies.

[@russianbot2179]

I hate hate hate buffering air dodge near the ledge. (wolf main)

[@TheLastSliceOfPie]

They need more controller options tbh. Like an option to turn off auto short hop aerials or an option to turn off manual tilts if you already have tilts set to c-stick (so you don't accidentally do a tilt when trying to do a smash attack which is what happens to me often when trying to do a run up up smash).

[@ramonM64]

Agreed. Personally, I would like an option of doing SMASH attacks ONLY through the A+B mechanic. That or if the sensitivity setting was more practical. It doesn't seem to change from Low or High.

[@TheLastSliceOfPie]

@@ramonM64 yeah i tried adjusting the stick sensitivity thinking that was the issue but it still seemed inconsistent

[@daleksky1105]

YES PLEASE

[@SiNKarnage]

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF FUCKING GOD MAKE TILTS SEPARATE You don't know how much tilts has fucked me in the ass after grounding my opponents trying to pull off a fucking smash attack. I broke my controller once because of that shit

[@adielwilson8749]

I also which there was one jump button and one short hop button instead of two regular jump buttons

[@nixuniverse5240]

tfw trying to make things easier makes it more complicated

[@CaNzCo]

Well I think it actually is easier. Full hop rising aerials are way less useful than shorthop aerials, and with the jumpsquat reduced to 3 frames they would be pretty tricky to pull off consistently for the casual player. (fox in melee had 3 frames and even pros messed up their shorthops at times).

[@nixuniverse5240]

CaNzCo I don’t see why they needed to make it easier in the first place. I’m a competitive player myself but I understand the casual side of things too, but even if all you had to do is flick the Analog stick up & then flick the C-Stick Up Down Left, Right or press A depending on which aerial you wanted to use. It was never that hard to begin with.

[@jansensamosa6317]

@@nixuniverse5240 but that's if you have tap jump on

[@nixuniverse5240]

Jansen Samosa Right, & having Tap Jump on makes it, even easier & more simple.

[@Izandaia]

@@nixuniverse5240 Because making it easier makes the game more accessible and fun.

[@Fireblaze3127]

I was messing with c-stick nair a bit and I figured it out, so there are two ways to get a c-stick nair actually, 1. if you input c-stick for 1 frame and then jump the next, your grounded normal will cancel into a jump on the first frame of it and then a buffered jump aerial will come out, this aerial depends on your CONTROL STICK, c-stick does not matter for this type of buffer. Meaning if you hold nothing a nair will come out. If you press forward on c-stick > jump next frame > hold down on control stick DAIR will come out, NOT fair 2. The buffering by holding a button is also fucked in the same way. If you buffer the short hop attack out of any action the same rule will apply where the aerial will take your control stick input, NOT the c-stick. Meaning you can grab > dthrow and keep holding down > hold jump + forward on the c-stick during your dthrow animation and DAIR will come out not fair. So if you hold nothing nair will come out even though you used c-stick

[@Fireblaze3127]

Also the reason your full hop aerial isn't coming out is cause you're pressing the c-stick during the 3 frames of jump squat and any attack button pressed during those jumpsquat frames will result in a buffered short hop attack so to do full hop rising aerials you just have to get used to pressing the C-Stick 4 frames (the first airborne frame) after jump

[@Fireblaze3127]

And one more thing, c-stick is still a macro of direction + A, which means you still lose some aerial momentum using c-stick (its not very noticeable with tilt stick), but for some reason only with some characters (Lucina is the most noticeable I've seen), if you input ftilt and hold jump to buffer it you get momentum in the opposite direction of the ftilt, really weird programming around the buffer in this game

[@counterpicky]

Nice explanations, I feel like they definitely could have handled the buffer stuff better if they're trying to make it more competitive...

[@omsa]

@@counterpicky there is a patch next week so hopefully......

[@ryuken10]

Rising aerials probably won't be much of a thing anyway because short-hops and full-hops accelerate much faster than in previous games, meaning you reach your max height faster.

[@Aziz....]

Damn the swedish boys are taking this game really seriously and I'm happy for that.

[@adang1827]

*swedish bois

[@MrBallsackMan]

its a serious game once you get to a highly advanced lvl

[@shootiNg_MoroN]

Yeah we r

[@secondwind7675]

I found a way to buffer full hop aerials. You have to be holding special. Then, when you press jump + c-stick, you do a full hop aerial instead of short hop. I recommend A+B smash off so that holding special isn't as bad. Also A+B smash tends to cancel this effect after you do a smash or some other actions, which is too wonky.

[@sebastianestrada2823]

New players: dude shorthop consistently is hard, i'm getting bodied Sakurai: *makes shorthop easier to do* there you go pal New and old players: dude fullhop now is no way possible

[@grizzykuma5246]

*This*

[@sahuaro]

Very intersting. I remember seeing leffen explain this but couldnt understand it well because of his explanation. This was defn more clear. Thanks a lot Armada!

[@R1zzo]

Welcome to “Buffer, the Fighting Game”

[@steeplewiththesnakes]

Now with this much buffer no one can deny smash is a fighting game

[@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh]

lmfao buffering is a mechanic present in every real fighting game and it allows for overlapping inputs and option selects. And crying about 5 frames of whogivesashit-tier of input lag isnt going to fix your fundamentals. You're trash and your execution is garbage.

[@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh]

And buffering is different than input lag lmfao

[@calebpagan2226]

@@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't even understand what buffering is. I first started playing smash in 2015 and I haven't really noticed a problem in ultimate. The game feels so much faster and I can just throw out ariels constantly

[@Shive1337]

@@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh It's a big problem for me, noticed it right away, as I can do inputs a loooot faster than 5 frames. Basically, there's slow brained people and fast brained people. If you're the slow ones, then of course you don't mind much. If you're on the faster side, then you're going to be annoyed.

[@EnnyO_Lobby]

Just imagine a Project Ultimate with this short hopping mechanic. Kreygasm

[@xXSchimpXx]

there should be an option to deactivate that short hop attack i also find it harder to do quick fairs with stick jump and c stick... if you try to buffer it, it often ends up in a f-tilt istead of fair

[@locswail7600]

This buffering online is a pain.

[@4xzx4]

So true.

[@MrHobo6262]

I wish there was an option to tone down the buffer

[@joshdamighty]

Or turn it off.

[@lougamerX]

No buffer at all is pretty stupid too, the Ultimate buffer just influences some things really weirdly...

[@3godzilla3]

@@lougamerX How? Little to no buffer was in Smash 4 and that game was just fine competitively. I want the buffer OFF.

[@lougamerX]

@@3godzilla3 you're kidding, right? Sm4sh had a pretty sizeable buffer, if you liked Sm4sh buffering, you'd hate no buffer.

[@sneeze4100]

@@lougamerX There are so many people with misconceptions about what buffer is and how it works, I agree, none of these people want buffer off. I want these people to do a shoryuken on wakeup in Street Fighter 2, a fighting game with no buffer. It's not easy.

[@jonahsmith2113]

This helped so much learning how to short hop

[@kyeperson8041]

You should be able to turn short hopping off like a+b smash attacks.

[@matthewb9981]

Armada it might be helpful in the future for these kinds of videos to also have a controller cam to see what your hands are doing. And to show further small differences in some of your inputs to get different results

[@93BossRoss]

God damn I hope this coming update gives us the option to turn this off. I think the buffer mechanic is terrible in this game. It was really pretty good in Smash 4. Like, short hops are not even that hard, I say give us the option to turn this thing off, and just make the window for a shorthop ever so slightly longer to appease people still learning.

[@jericosha2842]

Yeah this buffering thing is just goofy. I feel like it needs to be gotten rid of. In a game where precision matters, I don't like the idea of buffering moves ahead of time.

[@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh]

It's because you've never played a real fighting game. Option selects and overlapping inputs are alien to smash babies

[@Ben-my5cl]

hella bait

[@vicentesanchezjr.3877]

David I’m sorry that we like our inputs to be precise and intuitive

[@YamiZee]

Precision matters and that's why buffering is important. It's impossible to normally be frame perfect with an aerial, but with buffering you can make a move as soon as you're character is free to do so.

[@blazemkds]

Smash is much more free in terms of neutral. Buffering doesn't really suit it except in maybe a few situations

[@MikiRamanak]

Even Snake's logo is camouflaged

[@PonderingJosh]

The reason the velocity is different from the C-stick is this: It is programmed as the simultaneous input if the left-thumbstick and the attack button. So, since the move begins on the ground, the ground speed is calculated in junction with your jump. But if you use it while (already) airborne, your movement is calculated by the character's airspeed, and not their ground speed. What we are looking at is really a *grounded* aerial. It's an aerial with the movement of the character's ground speed.

[@TheEvilmonkey25]

So thats why i get these random Nairs...

[@goodguycwyzz4768]

This whole time I thought it was online lag causing me to not want to do aerials but it turns out it’s this damn buffer

[@Takumi_Yo]

It's online lag on top of buffering

[@legofam123]

GoodguyCwyzz You can use B+A smash attack for quick smash attacks

[@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh]

Literally all you fucking babies complaining about buffering, lmfao buffering is a mechanic present in every real fighting game and it allows for overlapping inputs and option selects. And crying about 5 whogivesashit-tier of input lag isnt going to fix your fundamentals. You're trash. You've never played another fighter outside of smash if you cant adapt to input lag.

[@kamaripeart1768]

@@carriescrammer6736 to be fair you can't say a buffer is making you play badly. Usually an excuse like that means you suck at whatever you're playing.

[@carriescrammer6736]

@@kamaripeart1768 True, it can't be used to make excuses for your play style or tech skill, but that doesn't automatically invalidate any criticism against it. It's still a shitty mechanic that, combined with this game's natural input lag, makes a lot of shit just wonky and clunky.

[@Nit0WasTaken]

damn, rising fairs with Marth/Lucina were so good.

[@xaius4348]

I wonder if rising fair with mewtwo works, since he is so floaty.

[@kaghon]

So that explains why I'm always accidently short hop nairing. I thought my controller was just being silly or something.

[@devilmaycryagency]

Does the buffer affect things that do not involve the C-Stick?

[@Jijowu]

I wish we could take off the forced short hop.

[@mtpineda5593]

Just press x and y at the same time.

[@grizzykuma5246]

@@mtpineda5593 What happens when you press both? I've never tried that

[@mtpineda5593]

@@grizzykuma5246 it's a short hop

[@SaltyBoiJohns]

MEGAMAN's NAir comes out after a Jab just by sliding your finger to a Jump button resulting in two attacks from one press of the A button... also seems to be the only way to perform this maneuver as quickly. So much has changed!

[@SamiJ1508]

That turn around nair is sick and super useful for say Roy and probably a lot of people That seems so nuanced and subtle though. Do other fighting games have so much shit and then that is so subtle?

[@Ningkify]

You can also execute a back air in the direction ur are running, by pressing jump and c-stick at the opposite direction u are running at the same time

[@george-lz2jo]

no that would execute a back air in the opposite direction, not the direction you are running. to do that you'll need to do a RAR. tilt the control stick to the opposite direction as you jump and then c-stick in the direction your running to execute a back air in the same direction

[@Ningkify]

@@george-lz2jo i got it a few times, but it is really inconsistent

[@laughinghyena888]

I'm having issues short hopping without aerials. Is anyone else struggling to just do a plain short hop? (I can do it with aerials). If so what controller are you using?

[@xJoeNx]

For the 2nd SH bair, how are you people executing to press jump and c-stick practically at the same time to get the extra distance? I can do it but only with a claw grip (index jump x/y and thumb cstick). Trying to do it fast enough with just my thumbs gives me the low distance bair. Is it possible if Im just faster? Edit: jumping with tap jump +csticking at the same time seems to work pretty consistently

[@noahjohnson5769]

If you jump then immediately press A and the direction you want the air with the left control stick then you will do that air. sh bair for example sh with x press a + back with control stick simultaneously. You have to use both hands but it works for me in a lot of situations.

[@barrytone2400]

What if you clicked up with tap jump to full hop and then try to up air with c stick, can you rising up air like that?

[@Sypaka]

"Yo Sakurai, i cant short hop air moves" Sakurai: "Press Y+A" "I still can't do it" Sakurai: "Hold my beer, noob"

[@zero123alpha6]

Thank you Esam

[@Wantedonesw]

is there a trick to down throw combo like the up air combo with jump buffer

[@dragonfx310]

I main Roy and sometimes when I try to punish landings by running under and using an f-smash or up-smash, I get a tilt instead and vice-versa. If I accidentally get the smash, I just get punished. Idk if I'm forcing the control stick too much or too little. It gets frustrating and costs me stage control and even the match at times. It also happens OOS.

[@Orion-redx7]

What should I bind the c stick to?

[@mr.a6862]

Can u do a rising fair with double jump?

[@Dj.D25]

Is buffering why I struggle to punish opponents online in Smash Ultimate compared to Smash 3ds/Wii U? So many times when an opponent misses an attack, I see what looks like an opening try to punish with an attack of my own that's likely faster, maybe a smash attack, or even grab. And why it seems like there's almost no cool down time for many moves? (mainly moves that aren't too fast or they appear to have an opening to punish if they miss) I am always questioning where is the cool down time, especially with moves that aren't that fast and it's not always air attacks with lag cancelling. I normally have these issues on quick play, but not quite when playing in arenas with random players or friends. It's just that I want to enjoy Smash Ultimate online, but it's mostly frustrating. Especially when most of the characters I use in Ultimate don't feel that different from Smash 3ds/Wii U. Also I would think most Smash players wouldn't be able to know about such techs.

[@Andrew_Bradshaw]

can you maybe do a video on how you hold your controller?

[@brandedone7153]

Not being able to full hop buffer my aerials is actually really irritating. But i gotta adapt unless Nintendo gives us an option to turn it off (highly unlikely)

[@Dcarpman77]

Does the buffer do anything good at all?

[@nickmartin5568]

I'm assuming I'm the odd man out here but I prefer tap jumping of anything else is their any tips I could get from anyone who's labed a lot cuz I'm a pretty advanced player but coming in from smash 4 to this the frames needed to short hop are 3 witch is a tighter window compared to smash 4 so if theirs any pointers I could get to help me short hop rather than full hop more consistently while Inputting an attack it'd be greatly appreciated if not I'm totally fine with overcoming the awkwardness that is playing claw on a game cube controller lol

[@Nekotamer]

what is the lowest input lag controller on this game?

[@ecfjluv3785]

Ohhh so that is why I kept messing up on my combos. Every time I tried to a full hop forward air with pichu I ended up doing short hops. Good to know.

[@Itzak15]

How do I jump with x And use the c stick?

[@mr.perish6799]

I need more hands

[@Nipponing]

Just doing short hops without an attack is very hard now... And even after this video I have no idea how buffering works...

[@dylanbowen3687]

Yeah is it just me or is it harder to short hop normally on this game than in say Melee? I was getting frustrated with that, as if I had to be even more precise/light on the button.

[@jon630]

The c-stick adding momentum thing isn't that big of a deal to me - yes it messes with spacing but I think you can adjust to it. Not being able to do rising full hop aerials is HUGE, though. It literally just takes out a whole option for the benefit of having short hop aerials be a bit easier to perform when they were already easy. I hope they patch that, but I doubt they will.

[@nightkitty7885]

At the very very least this seems to make no drift turnaround nair easier, which could make edgeguarding slightly easier...or jot

[@darylsdog9521]

Jop really

[@nightkitty7885]

@@darylsdog9521 what?

[@juanlayrisse9895]

The c stick Nair seems to be attack cancelled

[@Ari.1460]

I was trying to double jump from ledge and down air as bowser (don't ask why) and Roy hit me with a down tilt and the down air got buffered and I sd'ed

[@supershoo4518]

i don't understand why they made buffering work the way it does.

[@Peckingbird]

Can you not do a rising f-air by using tap jump? Therefore bypassing the forced short hop.

[@UGSArmada]

You can do rising fairs with full hop (regardless of button/stick) but you have to delay it. Which means landing a rising full hop fair seems to be impossible in most (all?) cases cause you have to wait for a long time

[@Peckingbird]

@@UGSArmada Ah, okay. Thank you.

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

This is actually quite terrible. Lost respect for the game, an entire mechanic that has been in the series is broken. My main is negatively impacted by this, rip.

[@ZxChrono]

JW Money It’s not going to ruin your casual gameplay lol.

[@JCElzinga]

It seems like melee guys are noticing this kind of thing more than smash 4 players.

[@timbrady1176]

Uh duh. Smash 4 had no tech lol

[@supershoo4518]

every reply to this comment is retarded

[@ShallBePurified]

Smash 4 players definitely notice. They just adapt to it. Smash 4 already had buffering, but it's even bigger in Ultimate. Melee players aren't as used to buffering moves so they're more inclined to talk about it.

[@uncochen-__-4730]

I don’t mean to be controversial with this comment, but it is purely because the Melee boys are more technical. It’s just how Melee is and why more competitive players tend to be more attracted to Melee than the newer games (this is just how the fgc works imo lmao). The later games certainly do have it’s fair share of tech, but with Melee it’s more noticeable, thus making the Melee community much more involved with the tech, but with the later games, the bugs that do exist are either patched or aren’t as noticeable.

[@caliberaid8527]

I played both games respectively but I can feel it without being biased it's just a feeling. Like 60hz vs 144hz you can definitely tell an input difference if you're even a little bit competitive. Spend time in a game and it's really easy to notice.

[@aintfalco7968]

Wait.. You can PRESS the C stick? in a neutral position?

[@mamodokod4613]

Is this just marth I've gotten rising up airs with other characters

[@Rynopb]

This game feels like driving on a track with traction control and abs on full assist mode.

[@lougamerX]

Best analogy I've seen so far. It may make some things easier for beginners, but as an experienced player I just feel limited and to some point belittled.

[@Rynopb]

@@lougamerX my cousin who has never played any smash game seriously is suddenly able to keep up with me. ive been playing melee in tournaments for 4 years and smash 4 ive attended a few. This game feels like it has nanneys to get casuals/hardcore casuals to a decent level. Advanced baits and movements aren't as effective. I understand that melee's skill curve is absolutely ridiculous, but even smash 4 had a pretty nice skill curve. Most of my casual friends have already reached Elite by using campy-projectile spammy techniques. The typical run to the edge of the stage and spam Simon's arsenal of wall out munition. Personally, I prefer a game that really requires fundamentals, a game where stage control is the difference between being in control and getting your stock taken, a game where you can exert your will on your opponent and have the ability to zero to death someone even if the players are at the same skill level. My week one thoughts are: this game is incredibly fun in LAN with friends. We must further lab out to really make the skill curve more existent. Sakurai purposely created a game that punishes mid level play and rewards low level players with safe smashes and spam. There has to be an increase in edge guards and combo potential in this game. As far as I am concerned, this game should be called 'Stray Hit Brothers Ultimate.'

[@lougamerX]

@@Rynopb Gotta say I disagree with that sentiment. This game has far more and effective options to mixup your play and far more rewards for stage control and being in advantage than Sm4sh already. Seems your fundementals don't translate over too well? The game takes some getting used to, I'll admit that but I've started getting the hang of ultimate combos and "exploiting" some of the changes. Regarding Elite smash, of course camping will get you good results in the first months, especially since many people have poor connections. Not really surprising to me. I'm still unhappy with the forced short hops and some of the new c-stick shenanigans but I'm really liking the game otherwise so far.

[@blazemkds]

I agree mostly with Ryno but I think the game is already way more fun than Smash 4 ever was. It has a fairly fast neutral that reminds me of RoA neutral, even more so if it had less input lag. The combos should be just a bit more extendable. Dash dance and fox trots are really effective in neutral and this was huge for me, as it makes the game way more fun and competitive. Edgeguarding is legit but hard because of input lag. Overall, if they can somehow magically reduce the input lag then this game will be the 2nd best smash long term, and with input lag taken down, will look significantly faster than it does now.

[@Rynopb]

lougamerX agreed

[@jed9902]

They just need to make the short hop aerial trick a toggle in controller settings. These limitations are so frustrating

[@SchlimmShadySmash]

After watching Leffen show these buffer things, and now this, İ know im done with this game. So damn limiting.

[@Nipponing]

Hahahaha. Then you never gave a shit if you give up that fast.

[@dylanbowen3687]

@@Nipponing Probably because Melee still exists. There needs to be a certain amount of respect for the veterans of Smash. It's not our job to like Sakurai's new game. It's Sakurai's job to convince us that his newest installment of Smash is tolerable enough for us to play it over Melee. So he can cut the stubborn crap and take off the buffer.

[@upy0ur5]

@@dylanbowen3687 he should've been a part of Capcom. They literally are the same in how they don't listen to fans.

[@The_B_Button]

@@dylanbowen3687 Because Melee is so much better, with how 80% of the cast aren't good at tournaments, how some characters are straight up broken, how edge camping is a thing... "more tolerable" lol

[@dylanbowen3687]

@@The_B_Button The Melee cast definitely leaves a bit to be desired in terms of balancing. But the fundamentals, such as my character actually responding properly to my inputs, kind of trumps everything else. That being said, Ultimate isn't a terrible game (like Brawl and Smash 4 were actually awful). It's just not amazing, largely due to the obnoxious buffer.

[@___i3ambi126]

They just wanted people to be able to easily buffer the hardest option (full di, sh, frame perfect areal). If you want to do anything else you used to be able to then just don't use the buffer. As melee players, not utilizing a buffer to do things should be easy for us.

[@theothersideofthefox]

Armadaaaaa, will you play in the ssbmelee and ssbultimate tournaments in the next conventions?

[@sycoraz]

The other side of the fox try looking st his other shit, hes done w melee singles he says.

[@yunzyu]

@@sycoraz check his other shit, he still plays doubles

[@sycoraz]

YunZyu uhh that’s why I said he’s done with melee singles tho lol

[@theothersideofthefox]

​@@sycoraz do not make a civil war (march 24 2017 reference)

[@mike35424]

On the topic of 'buffering'. Has anyone else noticed the c stick acting strangely in some circumstances? I notice sometimes I'll cross someone up with an air attack, I land and now our backs are facing each other, I tilt the c stick in their direction to do a turn around forward tilt but nothing happens. It seems like there's some delay in when the game will register this input. This has been happening to me quite a bit, anyone else experience this?

[@EvilCyanSheep]

Michael Amador same, sometimes my c-sticks tilts don’t register

[@george-lz2jo]

@@EvilCyanSheep SAME thought it was just me, the c-stick feels very inconsistent with my tilts. ive noticed that when i shield however, and attempt a tilt the game registers it as a grab even when im no longer shielding, so that might be the problem there. just remembering not to tilt out of shield with the c-stick, rather attempt a smash or short hop aerial

[@haydenCmalone]

@@EvilCyanSheep I'm glad someone else said this. I thought I was having controller problems

[@Shyverin]

How does one position their hand to hit the cstick and jump at the same time?

[@gabou1735]

The index on jump and the thumb on the c stick I think but it's annoying to pull off if you're not use to do it.

[@V2Nitro]

Claw grip, or the more feasible way for most people is to have one of your shoulder buttons set to jump.

[@Jona69]

Tap jump. Or jump on a shoulder button. Or claw grip.

[@shinjivizard12]

@@Jona69 God damn, that's a lot uncomfortable. I jump mostly with "x" but when buffering aerials out of a jump i use the control stick to jump and attack. I don't see this as a problem, it's people not be able to get out of their comfort zone. Althought not be able to buffer full hops attacks migh be an issue(you still can buffer full-hops out of anything except in neutral, by holding the jump button, that is the new hold-buffer mechanic). You for example do a smash attack and hold whatever button, for example up tilt and the game will do the up-tilt always right after the smash attack.

[@LyfSukz]

I have ZL set to jump

[@reelstuka6162]

Wait how I'm supposed to press y and c-stick at the same time with one hand? (I've had my jump on shoulder button)

[@george-lz2jo]

well press ur shoulder button and c stick at the same then lol, ur jump is on the shoulder button not y so when he says press y for jump, that means you press ur jump button (shoulder)

[@reelstuka6162]

Anarky Yeah with shoulder jump it's easy, I just meant that how Armada (or anyone using default controls) can move in the air while pressing y and c-stick? :D

[@Purpletrident]

@@reelstuka6162 Claw probably. That's what I do, anyway.

[@george-lz2jo]

@@reelstuka6162 yes i use claw with my index on y and thumb on c-stick / a button depending on the move.^_^

[@reelstuka6162]

Ah I see, how could I forgot about clawing xD

[@CodyTheBlackChickenSubscribe]

im sad now. i need my full hop fising fair as marth

[@tobimakkura]

After watching so many vids on how to get better, I've come to the conclusion that I suck lol.

[@george-lz2jo]

i mean everyone sucks at everything they start in, if u quit when something gets difficult then you'll never learn or improve lol

[@MrHobo6262]

It is so hard for me to do a quick turn around short hop back air. It always turns around and does the forward air. I'm just gonna blame it on the buffer

[@stardark9mc]

LMAO LITERALLY SAME

[@timbrady1176]

The buffer is not the problem here. What is happening is you are pressing the direction u are gonna hit before u jump nullifying the turnaround to do a back air. So if you want to do a back air on the right side of stage what you are doing now is stick left -> stick right -> attack. Or you might be doing stick left -> jump -> stick right -> jump -> attack. When you are doing the controls fast u may just be pressing the direction first before jump :]. You need to do stick left -> jump -> stick right attack

[@MrHobo6262]

@@timbrady1176 I guess I just gotta practice it somemore. I used to be able to do it pretty easily in the older games but I think in ultimate the dashing mechanics have gotten alot faster so its taking some getting used to.

[@LA_GRIMACE]

Does it work out of shield? Could be good with caracter like luigi

[@salem1451]

Not being able to buffer a dash is super annoying.

[@Obesepelican]

I really hope they patch the forced short hop

[@seandornewass4626]

Callum Hening like short hop fair in example?

[@samsonfgc3472]

That's not happening, because its a feature, not a bug. hopefully, in the patch, they'll make it a control option rather than mandatory. They aren't getting rid of it though. They might get rid of the weird nair buffer and also not have c-stick and z set as macros, but instead as dedicated commands. So rather than z=L+A=grab, its just z=grab and C-forward=forward+a=fair, its just c-forward=fair. That would get rid of the weird momentum stuff.

[@seandornewass4626]

Unlucky Sempai tbh that sounds like a good idea imo

[@JaysterJayster]

Aren’t cstick and Y both in the right hand part of the controller lol how am I supposed to do that crap in a fight

[@averagechapstick]

Map jump to L or something

[@videogameprof]

I do not like how they made sh into fair a mechanic instead of something you can just do. sakurai's meddling just limited it's freedom.

[@Auddy07]

Buffer needs to be patched out. PERIOD.

[@bend.7590]

Wtf is buffering?

[@Gamesforus1]

I don't think buffering is that big of a deal, I think all of the complaints of it is to do with people not being able to adjust to the new game, BUT we should atleast have the option in the future to turn it off, along with X+A short hop areals for more precision

[@dylanbowen3687]

"Not able to adjust to the new game." If you intentionally make it difficult to adjust, everyone is going back to Melee. They just need to give us the option instead of forcing in mechanics for the sake of bad players.

[@Gamesforus1]

@@dylanbowen3687 "Going back to melee" Lol. You can play more than one game at once you know. And I guess you know how some outsiders see melee now, with such a high skill gap it doesnt feel worth it to continue trying to adjust because if mechanics like L-cancelling. Get sime perspective.

[@dylanbowen3687]

@@Gamesforus1 Here's some perspective. Some of us are fine with nerfing or getting rid of some of the more technical things like L-Cancelling or Wave Dashing. What we're not going to put up with are generally piss awful controls, and to a lesser extent, laughably low hitstun.

[@Gamesforus1]

@@dylanbowen3687 "Piss awful controls" You know, many people say melee has that when they first try it out. Along with PM. In that case its not the buffer or hitstun, it's just getting used to the game. The controls are fine and are the 2nd best in the official series, its just dashing is something to get used too since you can't act immediately out of it. Git gud I guess.

[@Emilio_Valadez]

This is so fucked up for some characters, for example Ryu, the Fair into Dair combo is no longer possible becuase you need to full hop Fair to hit the Dair and spike the oponent.

[@apatheosis8841]

I wish you could turn forced short hop off just like tap jump, rumble, A+B smash and C-stick N-air if the last one was still here. (One like = one prayer for the return of C-stick N-air.)

[@1Zaren]

Melee is a far more difficult game, but the controls in melee make this look ridiculously overly difficult

[@dylanbowen3687]

Yeah it's tragic. Ultimate has better physics than we have seen in almost two decades, yet the controls are terrible.

[@7dogguy]

Nice limited game

[@Thunda8]

To be fair, it is a lot more simple to do aerials with the A button. The c-stick however is a whole other story. I feel like the c-stick inputs the direction only on the first frame and then keeps the "attack" stored as the next action. Would explain the movement when using aerials with the c-stick and attacks depending on the control stick

[@sonnybrown4758]

2:50 but you can turn this off.

[@jigalooo2331]

Smash is so dang complicated

[@jimmyfredriksson1000]

aaah

[@POWERWALL5]

They showed that there is the mechanic of pressing two buttons (jump and attack) at the same time to make always short hop arials. Pressing those buttons with the stick in a direction, you can make fairs, back airs, dairs and up airs with short hopp. Pretty sure you know this but you were kind of surprised in this video:)

[@HHSW99HC]

They implemented the buffer system to compensate for their shitty online netcode lmao

[@oozmakappa6415]

The buffer is whack

[@Tucanazo69]

So is Luigi :^)

[@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh]

Literally all you fucking babies complaining about buffering, lmfao buffering is a mechanic present in every real fighting game and it allows for overlapping inputs and option selects. And crying about 5 whogivesashit-tier of input lag isnt going to fix your fundamentals. You're trash. You've never played another fighter outside of smash if you cant adapt to input lag.

[@blazemkds]

@@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh Get off your high horse fool and go play some Melee. It shits on all your traditional fighting game buffer nonsense. Melee is more than a fighting game it takes years to understand.

[@dylanbowen3687]

@@Rehhhhhhhhhhhhh Who cares about traditional fighters? All that counts is Melee. And maybe Ultimate... maybe. If they can trash this damn buffer..

[@Adolin.Kholin.]

What does mean "momentum " in Spanish?

[@TheDogo77]

Momento

[@babulbi]

Impulso

[@AIejandroide]

Momento lineal

[@Adolin.Kholin.]

@@babulbi oooooooo yeah that has more sense. Thanks.

[@nixuniverse5240]

Yes

[@vincentninja68]

Input buffer option, Sakurai Til then Im not buying the game

[@Mt1200z]

This is a big deal to me, it makes everything harder instead of easier.

[@chrisconrad4521]

This is a problem.

[@jeremystinson2124]

So does this make the game bad...?

[@Lightning-gg5iu]

Depends who you ask

[@thereaIitsybitsyspider]

Well, it's not as clever as two jump buttons for each type, but it is better than the bullshit that was jump sensitivity in smash 4. It was what turned me away from practicing the game. No way for me to get a consistent short hop.

[@dylanbowen3687]

It's like they try to make short hopping normally difficult on purpose to make the idiots feel better, even though it was something I had no issue with at 10 years old playing Smash 64... pathetic.

[@BrockBreedingintheHoennRegion]

broooo wtf every time I hear anyone talks about buffering the more I start to dislike the game.

[@BrockBreedingintheHoennRegion]

No matter how easy and simple it is to comprehend the basic concept of buffering, ultimate just throws all of that out the window. Once I start to understand how buffering works in ultimate the picture I try to make out just fumbles lol

[@george-lz2jo]

@@BrockBreedingintheHoennRegion i agree but dont try think about it too much, i naturally buffered my moves without knowing it was a thing, these guys explain it like its fucking rocket science aha

[@HunteroftheNorth]

@@BrockBreedingintheHoennRegion the hold buffer mechanic is actually useful at times.. and just takes some practice and time to get used to

[@four-en-tee]

Is no different than learning to control the pace of your breathing, its easy to manipulate once you know you're doing it right.

[@drbatt5141]

@@four-en-tee Except when the issues with the buffer turn things that should be relatively simple into frame perfect techniques. I can't SH Uair while moving forward out of Squirtle's Dthrow, which makes my combo game a lot more difficult, since that's one of the ways to get high damage out of Dthrow. It's even worse online, since I can't realiably associate a certain part of the animation with when I should make the input.

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

Controls in this game are so disappointingly bad...

[@mxcascade]

Buffering is cheeks in this game. JS should be 4 frames

[@shmookie1358]

UHHH

[@Hum17a]

2:20 it's not an interruption this is a literal mechanic that sakurai advertised

[@yungthunder2681]

I understand the competitive mindset here, but personally I appreciate the forced short-hop because I have really slow fingers and have a lot of trouble doing shorthops without it

[@samuwall]

Yung Thunder nobody has “slow fingers” you just have to practice it and it feels 10x better to get it down by yourself instead of the practice wheels given in ultimate

[@Nipponing]

Now try doing short hops without attacking...