Rethinking poverty in China: Grant Horsfield at TEDxHultBusinessSchoolSH

[@AFKGr]

western societies are experiencing a social contradiction: they generally view communism very negatively, and yet they desire more and more communistic characteristics in their system. solution is simple too! simply start viewing different ideologies with equal respect and try to have a objective analysis over their pragmatic outcomes; sit aside the common arrogance and frankly, ignorance.

[@NekoLilium2012]

Ideology warfare is very much a cold war attitude.

[@kenzofinucane4057]

What most people hate most about the so called communist governments that have existed/exist is that centralizing all decisionmaking is probably the worst possible way to manage an economy, the other part is all the anticommunistic propaganda from the US that was intended to fight minorities and liberals

[@esp4yu]

@@kenzofinucane4057 This cannot happen in the Western World because Individuals not Collectivism, prevails ... The mindset is fixated because of Only Long Established Traditional Way of Thinking Works, all others System don't or can't and it is not wrong to think this way. But when one is dealing with 1.4 Billion and able to make things happen (example: 60% of World High Speed Rail, BRI ...etc) .... It just shows that how Racism, Individualism can be Divisive factor in the Western World. And Divisions alone does not necessary be successful. The World need to Co-Exist, accept Individuals as well as other ways (Collectivism) to move forward.

[@isismccain915]

@待化的冰 OK, you have a point, so the mobile execution/organ harvesting vans are just a simple manifestation of grass roots democracy & freedom, huh?

[@zhangzheng0529]

your comment bespeaks the fact that western countries lack education on socialism and communism. Communism refers to a classless and stateless society where all the conventional property relations have been dissolved due to the great development of productive powers and all the people are equal and given whatever they need as their daily subsistence in the form of communal or public ownership. It is seen as the ultimate societal form Capitalism has to evolve into as a result of its internal contradictions. China is far away from that simply because it's still a state while communism has to be built by all the states. The one state socialism, as pushed forward by Lenin and Stalin was actually contradiction to what Marx pictured. China does have more socialist elements than many western countries for example, public health care public education public media public publisher etc. They're all cheap.

[@yananneteoh9818]

I was in Beijing twice in 1999 and in Guangzhou for 7 months sin 2013. I saw a couple of beggars perhaps, in Beijing and a few in Guangzhou. In a town outside Guangzhou, I saw one tramp who smelt and looked homeless. Based on my experience, it seems most of the poorest in China have homes, more likely families, to shelter them. I learnt from my Chinese friends too, that they can have land to build their homes for free!

[@tanjaden736]

THE WESTERN PERSPECTIVE ON CHINA When we were the sick man of Asia, we were called the yellow peril. When we are billed to be the next superpower, we are called the threat. When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets. When we embrace free trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs. When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and wanted your fair share. When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, free Tibet you screamed, It was an invasion! When tried communism, you hated us for being communist. When we embrace capitalism, you hate us for being capitalist. When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet. When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights. When we were poor, you thought we were dogs. When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts. When we build our industries, you call us polluters. When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming. When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide. When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation. When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law. When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights. When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech. When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobes. “Why do you hate us so much﹖”we asked. “No,” you answered, “we don't hate you.” We don't hate you either, but, do you understand us? “Of course we do, ”you said, “We have AFP, CNN and BBC's ……” What do you really want from us? Think hard first, then answer, Because you only get so many chances. Enough is enough, enough hypocrisy for this one world. We want one world, one dream, and peace on earth. This big blue earth is big enough for all of us.

[@chilicrab6766]

beautifully summed up, it's spiritually exhuasting when they call you brainwashed when ever you try and defend your self and tell the people who dont understand your country. basically with today's western mainstream media, it is exactly the way you listed, bias to the core, and chinese has no say, any voice you try to exert will most likely fall on deaf ears, sad, there's no free press, it's all controlled, and those who controls it, is anti china, simple as it is

[@kengwongsee180]

thats the facts the west dont agree，their believe are their superiority over China must be dominant，They will want China to knowtow to their democratic system ，or else they destabilise china by any means

[@angelaxu5722]

Thank you for being so positive about China, I know China has its own problems, but we will strive to be better along the way we would like to learn the good from other countries

[@jackjack5814]

this is the most beautiful words i ever heard about china

[@ER1CL33]

Because the truth is beautiful

[@hemanthkumarHere]

I was in an impression that China's growth is not inclusive. But this video sheds some light.

[@leecris4311]

hemanth kumar because the international media wants to portray China as a communist asshole

[@timelessd9096]

I set up factories (2 factories) in China more than 15 years ago and I witnessed a major transformation to the economy and to the people (many employees are migrant workers). The west likes to perpetuate the myth of no freedom and no internet but China's internet is the most advanced in the world because the wechat is the future of internet. Could you imagine a "developing nation" like China with 60% of the consumers using mobile payments for almost everything and China's mobile payment rates is 10 times that of US?

[@micahaugust372]

hey welcome to china and you will see something for real

[@english_badminton_history]

You are right. China's growth is NOT inclusive, hands down!

[@jonhone1]

WOW 😲! This is a big wake up call. Great job 👍

[@Mokidd94]

china has reduced poverty in the whole wide world. God bless China.

[@gulitzt5865]

at the time he spoke was 650000 out of poverty. Its 850000 today that china pulled out of poverty.

[@YT-ur8nh]

Good talk! However, I like to add. The main reason that California have 20% homeless and only 4% in Shanghai, is because the people in each city are brought up differently and have different choices. Especially in term of what's available when they stop performs for their life's necessities. In California, if you don't have home, there is shelter; if you don't have food, there is EBT; But in Shanghai, there are no alternatives other than do what you can do for the money to get what you want to get. There are very little government assistants but not to that extent of California, not even close. Generally they are only available to the disables, the extreme poor of minorities in the rural, special families like soilder who served or died in special area, ect. But to regular citizens, before the turn of millennium, there were absolute no government assistants avalible to regular people. When people rely on themselves for their own well being, they will became less dependent, and they are in control of themselves in this matter. and most Chinese are taught by their parent through example since little.

[@honeniheixiu8119]

Y Tang I noticed that most homeless people in the US have certain degree of mental illness, if you use Japan as an example their society has more sufficient assistance to the needed but yet you don’t see many homeless people on streets as their choice. This is more likely a cultural problem or difference, In some culture people and family are in a close circle where family members take care of each other and also consider someone who in the family become a beggar or homeless is shameful and disgraceful. When people either teenagers or young adults have friends and family support each other, they are less likely to suffer from mental problems.

[@zongkaiyang1181]

I wouldn't say that "there are very little government assistants" or "absolute no government assistants", maybe the word "government assistants" is too blurry in your point. There are also social insurance system, the medical insurance system, and pension for the majority of people and the public facilities are way better than many other countries. Going to the hospital and find a proper medical treatment for simple diseases in western countries can be super hard, is it how the government is fully supporting the general people? When you get a cold or a fever, you can only stay at home and drink hot water. Do you think that giving bread and sausage to me can cure my fever? I don't think it is an absolute right way that government should give free food to people who are actually capable of work themselves but just don't want to. Why should we, "regular people," ask for free food and house when we are able to gain a living ourselves? Relying on ourselves is not a bad thing, and the government already provides basic supports and infrastructure for society, then it is our own business to make our own life better.

[@mocuishle3519]

I partially agree, although I think poor people do still get the government’s assistance in China. They are just covered in places not so superficial like an shelter house/ welfare money/food. They are covered in their cheapest apartment renting price in suburbs, cheapest electricity fee of the world, cheapest food materials under the government controlled prices, cheapest and very convenient public transportation to help them reduce their daily costs, government’s poverty alleviation works to give them better advices of good business ideas, cheapest educational/re-educational costs, relatively very cheap health care prices, cheapest daily using items, the world’s only full ranged high-end to low-end industries in a country and various simple jobs they could work on etc. Some are just the same as this guy has mentioned in this TED show.

[@kirillzapple]

I love this guy! I want to hear more of him

[@tunnel-vision6066]

Hei, dude, I am from Shanghai. As far as I know, Shanghai has never experienced so defined poverty as hunger and shelterless since end of domestic war, even during years of 1960 when millions of people died of hunger in rural areas. Shanghai is a very specific tip of China. You know why, because this city has been blessed by privileged government policy.

[@aison2735]

Most of the poor people in China have houses and land. They have poverty subsidies, social insurance and medical insurance in their place of household registration. They go to the city to work and earn money. If they are unemployed or unable to earn money, they will return to their home in the place where they have registered residence and live a safe life.

[@李柏穆]

everyone in china has a house in his hometown(not the place he works at)

[@iamfiveyearold]

0.5yuan

[@lmlmlmz]

haha. let them underestimate china. it is alright.

[@papageorgio123123]

No every one has parents who have a house in their hometown, most of the newer generation do not own their own house, it is their parents house.

[@xuliu8062]

@@papageorgio123123 I think this is a cultural difference. In China, the house of the parents is the house of the child. In China, there are absolutely no parents living in a warm house and the children are homeless. I have been wondering why there are so many homeless people in the United States. Returnees, the United States is a developed country, and the per capita GDP is six times that of China. Those who are homeless have no brothers? No parents, or no children? Why are you living in the streets, you know that in China, as long as your parents, brothers, or children own a house, you can’t be homeless.

[@papageorgio123123]

@@xuliu8062 Having a home and legally owning a house are two different things regardless of your culture. I live in China btw, there are plenty of homeless people here too.

[@peterwang5196]

Sharp observations, excellent story,.... But just scraped the surface.

[@chinhau8702]

highly constructive -he has eyes that can fathom the truth and realities...

[@nancypoopongpaibul5642]

Excellent presentation with the realistic situations. Well done!!!

[@stephenlee6692]

Absolutely brilliant observation

[@Bobxchen333]

You have to see how is "without a fixed address, in a shack" defined ? Does worker's dormitory count ? Strictly speaking most of migrant workers in China would fit this description. But most of them have homes in their perspective rural villages which they visit once a year, so they are not counted as "without a fixed address, in a shack". But for the very city they work in, they are de facto "without a fixed address, in a shack"

[@drkrn1986]

All the above said things are applicable to India too. For example -We too have slab system for electricity billing.

[@queenieseto9207]

Traffic in China is like a school of fish in the ocean. Look chaotic but no crashes. That's a local told me when I asked the same question years ago when I was there.

[@peterwang5196]

Deep insight, equally shocking, the total employment of 900000 out of 1.4 billion population.

[@jamesross8671]

900,000,000?

[@Hipstove]

population density does matter. for a small business that sells 500 bowls of soup noodle in a big city, it is possible to keep the price down and the quality remains high. the same small businesses in a less densely populated area, it is difficult to keep the price for necessities so low. if you go to some of the remote places in China, the food can be more expensive than a street stand in big cities and the quality is also worse.

[@mengwise36]

That does not make sense. If you go to poor places, where living standard is lower than Shanghai, the price of everything should be lower.

[@Hipstove]

you have to control other variables when you discuss the impact of population density.

[@PirateJiang]

really appreciate for your study on China problems. Hope Chinese gov can adapt your concerns.

[@prod.theozim730]

how are these costs covered by the producers? are SOE's subsidised to keep income disparities in consumption low? if not, how do smaller businesses survive, and why aren't small businesses/firms motivated to just ramp up their prices?

@Peter Parker you are right if you are not making enough money in your business you need to gain more customers, not ramp up your prices.....

[@MingDynasty700]

Slums are rare in China because it's still a very rural society (slightly less than 50% rural), with land divided equally during the revolution, and drug uprooted. As urbanization increases, there will be a lot of shanty towns showing up as a poor unskilled worker would not have a plot of farmland for him to fall his back on.

[@tuyatang8107]

If you go to the west part of china, you will find out how empty china is. The shanty town you talk about already exist for a while in mega cities such as Beijing and shanghai, because young people and workers believe these first-tier cities are places have job opportunities, even they have to live in a poor living environment. It is why Chinese government made plans to urbanize rural areas (for example, the go west plan they claimed a decade ago),and adjust the "hukou”policy in second-tier, third-tier cities. They tried to decentralized work force from a few big cities to larger range of regions, and tried to make and offer more job opportunities not only in some big cities but in more and more smaller cities and towns. We hold the opposite opinions. As the urbanization of china, work force will be decentralized to more and more smaller cities also can offer them jobs with much lower living cost. The new hukou policy allow theses migrant workers own their legal right of welfare and stay in these second-tier or third- tier cities, their children can go to regular public school there. the urbanization actually will solve the slum or shanty town problems. This is the advantage of a developing country as china, it has a lot space to be developed.

[@YT-ur8nh]

***** That communism has long gone. These communist stop believed in communism since the beginning, they knows long ago it just a fantasy. Its oligarchy at best. They don't provides anything, they only suck blood off people.

[@mengwise36]

That is NOT the reason. The reason is China has completed land reform that other "free" developing countries have not/could not. The land belongs to the country/government, not private individuals. As a result, most of the people from the country side who work in large cities actually have big houses in their home town. Their living condition in the large cities may not be optimal but they are certainly not homeless. In most large cities around the world, the "slums" house people from the country side who have lost their land to private owners. They have no choice but living in the "slums".

[@michaelginsberg9101]

4

[@adamiskandar5107]

@@YT-ur8nh 6 years later, have you changed your opinion?

[@couar351]

The speed limit there is much slower. Speed kills

[@kirillzapple]

How come this presentation has so few views???

[@peterchang58]

You Tube don’t promote positive videos about 🇨🇳!!

[@danf4447]

saying all of china is like shanghai is like saying all of the united states is like san francisco

[@adamiskandar5107]

He didn't say that. He stated his criteria to compare the three cities chosen. Try to be objective and you will benefit from a good presentation.

[@anghockseng5686]

China has change so far With good leader

[@ich488]

5 RMB for lunch in downtown Shanghai? You must have been there in year 1999.

[@ynw5678]

It is true. If you can stand the place's hygiene and sitting environment.

[@janvandeberg1953]

Why is this so few subscribers?

[@roffigrandiosaofficial]

The government must create opportunity more jobs in order for the people to be more inclusive. What are the policy of their government in agriculture & industry sector? Surely it could decide the way the people live.

[@mengwise36]

Creating employment opportunities is almost always the number one priority for any level of government. That is the difference.

[@timelessd9096]

For agriculture, the Chinese government relocated some of the 50 million now living below poverty line to better locations by offering housing and equivalent plots of lands for them. Those relocated are those living in remote areas without access to facilities like electricity and with poor irrigation. Since the remaining 50 million are those in remote areas (some in mountainous areas, eg the ethnic minority), the plan is that by 2020, the majority of these 50 million could be uplifted. Since Xi Jingping became president, he visited such areas every year to such locations and interacted with them and took notes of their concerns.

[@user-sf9px1em8n]

KUDOS to CHINA from INDIA. Keep showing MIDDLE FINGER to AMERICANS and EUROPEANS "SOMETHING JUST LIKE THIS"

[@yunli1333]

Drug usage at 4.8% seems really high for Shanghai.

[@danf4447]

the homeless rate in california is 33 per 10000 or .3 per cent.

[@lepeiyan2341]

I feel so uncomfortable seeing he touted China like this. This is not ted talk I know.

[@dnsps]

Those small store owners in blighted areas bear much higher costs to deliver goods to people in those areas. If you force those store owners to sell for the same price as in the more affluent areas, those store owners would quickly close their doors. Then who wins? Socialism always collapses in on itself. The "Free-Market" allocates resources and talent in the most efficient manner. Yes, the wealthy get the benefits first and they pay the premium for that privilege. That premium paves the way for more manufacturers to produce the product at lowered costs. Everyone benefits. Be patient and everyone wins.

[@HeresMyView]

Don, you said "Socialism always collapses in on itself. 'Free Mkt' allocates resouces n talents in the most efficient manner." Taken straight from the classic western economic book. China is different in the yr of 2000's era. China has built a great phenomenal success in the digital economy. Mobile payments is the game changer. The infrastrurure developmt has surpassed all countries in the world. China bypassed the checking system, credit card system and banking system altogether. The business landscape has changed. That's why ALL entrepreneurs, small businesses and start ups from any part of China, including rural areas can operate their businesses on the e-commerce. There is no cost difference! The e-commerce platforms are free (provided by giants like Alibaba, Baidu, Wechat, Tencent, etc) to compete in China, including the global mkt. In China the logistics are well estsblished n shipping prices are not discriminatory on e-commerce. Thus everyone gets the same pricing for shipping cost. That eliminates the problem of allocation of resources face by western countries. In fact, small online businesses in rural China have lower productn costs (wages, materials, O/H) n make them more competitive; and can offer lower selling prices. There is no barrier to entry. So, with millions of small businesses on Alibaba, that's why Alibaba's revenue reached an impressive US$33 billion on Single Day sale alone (equivalent to Thanksgiving Cyberday sales in US) for 2019. This ONE Day sale alone exceeds ALL the combined sales of all the major US retailers sales for ONE WEEK during After Thanksgiving sales!! These retailers include Walmart, Target, JC Penney, Bestbuy, Sears, etc, etc. Now that's incredible. And, change poverty on its head. I have seen documentaries showing the entire village pool their resouces together to take advantage of bulk shippings, mass productions, pakaging and management skills to increase productivity and efficiency in the e-commerce economy. Capital requiremt is practically and extremely low. They specialize on their own mkt nitch. Examples: Traditional Handicrafts, produce, or unique woodworks. Western media is too busy engaging in China Bashing, blinded with hatred to see any phenomenal changes in China and treated China's rise as a threat. These contempts have left the US and Europe behind China economically. And, the fake news is so strongly ingrained into the population that it is very very difficult to shake off anti-China sentiments. There is no cure! The damage is done. And sadly, you're one of the casualties. No doubt, China's political system has moved away from Communism and China's economy will surpass the US soon. China's leaderships realized that Mao made huge mistakes but as a token of respect, they still appreciate Mao's other conributions (unite China). Perhaps, this token of respect is viewed differently by western MSM. Nevertheless, the political system continues to reform and transform into China's Capitalism, not western Surveillance Capitalism (elites and maga corps call the shots).

[@mikely7354]

perceptions?...

[@talkfacts100]

Anybody thinks he got some similarities With Winston aka serpentz but tells about a whole different China?

[@anghockseng5686]

US every 8 year change govt So they have no long term plan

[@leiguo8102]

this guy’s debation is much convincing and down to the earth than what Professor Zhang Weiwei’s bull shits

[@howluk2901]

Wait.... Progressive tariff is not a thing in the west??

[@shaduck06]

2006 DAzhong taxi, limeish green drove recklessly

[@shaduck06]

PEOPLE drive too fast in SanFrancisco

[@ielee1765]

Poverty is the number human right infringement.

[@darmaw22]

OMG! This is serpentza! How did he manage to shape-shift from a sinophile to a sinophobe?

[@taniagudka1966]

He's Winston's brother!

[@sitoudien9816]

He changed to appeal to his viewers of mostly adventure seeking sexpats and yellow fever types. One wonders what his wife thinks of him.

[@joewulf7378]

真的是那条狗？

[@sitoudien9816]

@@joewulf7378 not him. It's a joke

[@Alvin-Sy]

Haha, they do looked alike, nice joke

[@edwardyang8254]

Socialism done right...

[@zmpeople]

taking the richest city in China as a reference is wrong in the first place

[@leecris4311]

he said his business is all over China and he went to many rural areas, small cities

[@zmpeople]

As a native, I can tell you that not everywhere in China is developing as fast as you thought. There are also many places that are still developing very slowly or even have stop developing for more than a decade. This a also what I've seen and experienced.

[@leecris4311]

zsd zk can you tell me which places? I doubt that you are native

[@zmpeople]

Why doubt, because what i say didn't match someone's observation? China is huge, dont generalize

[@leecris4311]

zsd zk just tell me which places are not developing

[@samwang9352]

Come on,guy!I'm a Chinese,I have to say don't know China ,all what foreigner saw just a superficial phenomenon.

[@flaviorino7075]

great story, not so great story teller

[@elieli837]

Liar

[@watercutterlan1401]

in Shanghai may be the begger is much richer than u . almost every Chinese know that being a begger means you are a miilonaire .haha.