Retiarii, Chad or Disappointing Jav?!

[@hrtdeq5432]

15 or 16 models buff, increased block break (Pilum would stuck in shields and rendered them unusable). Add another skill where they throw nets and knock down enemies and bind them in place for a brief duration. They are Retiarius after all, the net is their signature.

[@drunklt3721]

I think with an AI overhaul and a head count increase to the 22-24 range then they’ll be viable. Right now they are insanely frustrating, which is a shame cause I love playing javs.

[@SchockerX69]

So part of the problem with them is, they were rehashed off of Siphonari, and had one of their skills removed in a redesign just prior to season 13 PTR release. They were supposed to throw nets that triggered the burning animation, but the AI and particle effects required for the animation proved problematic. So they got redesigned to be “burst damage”. The ray cast of their original throw proved problematic with terrain elevation changes, but with an arc like other javs they can’t hit enough of a higher count unit to make the damage reduction viable. In the end, their “doom” was the short seasonal development cycle and a series of band aids on a missing limb.

[@Maxikingallright93]

The Quality of your Unit Analysis vids really went upwards, very nice ;) Looking at the upcoming season. They could be actually nice against the new t4 cav or maybe even the T5, because both new Units need to get very close for Melee like these guys

[@ilu9170]

If I remember right, they were thought as ignoring Block with there throw but got canceled. I think that alone would be enough to make them viable again. Or there throw can active there mark of death. I think the headcount is ok but +3 would feel much better. I like to play them in fieldbattles in ranked, and to ons heros with the 1. Overall they have situations in which they are good but those don’t appear frequently and are most of them time 1v1 or flank in small skirmishes. So ye .. wish there spears would penetrate more targets and more often

[@Roctech44]

What I hate about these guys is that they sometimes throw javs right in the opposite direction you're aiming for, just because there's other nearby enemy units behind them

[@nerfharder554]

This. Or they just throw their javs against a wall because a hero is hiding behind the next corner while you aimed for the pikes that were standing right in front of you.

[@TheVirtualRogue]

i love those, they can rly nuke things in 1-2 sec. The thing is, you dont use throw as main damage, you use 1 and 2 to nuke in melee. Try using 1 more often, let them hit for 2-3 sec and get them out. They are not solo unit, so mass fights: 3 into 1 (they rush and stack) into 2

[@Plumsion]

I get that, yes, but at this current point with MAA, ISG, musha, and orchi running about you put these anywhere near them. Night night retiarii. What you don't see is the 15 other games where I get wiped going into mele combat. I mean if you make the a jav give me a jav 😄 I think turning them into a 16 to 18 headcount would make them feel like a proper t5 jav unit.

[@TheVirtualRogue]

@@Plumsionye id like to see them buffed too, but atm, if you flank well with them, they are the fastest melee unit to wipe another defenceless unit. Face to face combat, they would lose even to many blue units

[@filipkaludjerovic2037]

Based on the video, perhaps 12 models more if the stats stay the same. If they buff them maybe 18 like the reapers

[@demetristevens7400]

Biggest thing needed is a better aiming with their throw. Sometimes you aim at a location and they just throw somewhere else. Its frustrating especially when you kinda are playing tag and retreat with these guys and just trying to get a "mark of death" debuff on the enemy that you are trying to focus in on. So you just cant really use their other abilities until you know you killed some models and clean up with the 1 and 2. Really fun using these guys but man that aiming is so ass sometimes.

[@demetristevens7400]

Btw these guys when you are deathballing are really good when you do a throw and just sprint in with a 2 and 1 combo. When they just arent taking the blunt of the damage thats where those first 2 skills really come in nicely.

[@Colonel_Blastem]

I had a game with them and when I aimed their javelin throw they turned the opposite direction and snipped a random hero

[@pixelfille3130]

0:44 why do you have the murmillones theme in the background?

[@Plumsion]

I put it there, Prefer it to the retiarii one :)

[@doncamilo9051]

I think a heal would really Help this guys, like getting1000 healf wvery time you use tridant charge. That way they could bem more sustainable on combat

[@Alan-gt5lr]

One of my favorite units! Maybe a bit weak but they perform really well sometimes. Try vsgs next! Ive been using them and they've been surprising to say the least!

[@TrollingWendigo]

Man i think you mistake spearfishing(1) skill for trident charge(2) and vice versa. Bottom line you are currently using gives them resistance while charging using 1 skill. I think its more viable to use top&mid line, as mid line gives them more damage to heroes and multihit on trident charge (2nd skill xd). You should also give them their 3rd doctrine that gives them additional damage resistance on trident charge, that with addition of mid line makes them go berserk for the skill duration. They are a very fun unit, but their throw AI is garbage so you need to do a little bit more of micro with them. You shouldn't hesitate to use them offensively when given no choice to escape, as with their throw followed by trident charge(2) and spearfishing(1) they can combo shieldmaidens or VGs to death (rarely, but its work the risk when no other choice)

[@rikrishshrestha5421]

Their low straight arc was suppossd to be cool for jav unit but tbh that is their weakness compared to t4 javs. When ranged units r at back lines, why would u throw at sheilds ,right ? We want to target the juicy shenjis, tercios at back and only t4 javs can do it perfectly which is one of main reason t4 is better

[@johnjavier19]

they are well performed if you can keep their passives up.. dual blade is a poor coordination with them.. try using different weapons like Pike, Spear, SS, Pole, Katana

[@rpavangchhia8953]

I think they nerf the range of their javelins too, i remembered in fort wall, i threw it from point C and kill a hero who was standing at the main gate. It was the most fun part of playing them.

[@igordomanski3477]

at their throw they are like "feel the power!" sounding fierce as vengeful blood drinking gods and then they throw sticks that almost heals enemies... while the melee looks like they're caressing their foes with the back of their hands.

[@viroxzyn1267]

I think keep their head count the same but just buff their damage or make them lower enemy attack with javs or smthing

[@andreipopescu7872]

should be 16 and also fix the throw...i mean...sometimes i dont do any dmg...all javx goes in the ground...or above the target.

[@delraxes7602]

I am kinda sad that they are so bad, because Tridents are one of my favourite medieval weapons.

[@teddykazandjiev]

In comparison to tier 4 javs without mastery yes this is a tier 5 jav ( not by much) but it is better in several regards ( notably the melee). However, once you factor in the masteries this is in no way better and it is in fact worse than the tier 4 javs.

[@zimmermann-gamesmasturbato481]

They also deal less damage than imp javs, as a t5 jav. It feel so bad, bcs they dont even have an arc. Super situational bcs of that. Also the Ai is just bad. Make their AI good, ignore shields and double headcoundt amd they are viable. It feels so bad to throw javs at like maa and they block all your javs. Or make them the same as the java melitia mastery. One hit block break. But the cci of ISGs does counter that anyway.

[@TheRogueJedii]

They need a buff for sure

[@iyaf4l3x64]

this unit was so good on release but then the got a big ass shadow nerf (10K hits are normal on release and now they hit for only 5K even with better Docs) in the next season for legit 0 reason at all... now they are so bad no one even remembers theyr exist lul. if they buf this unit to do 2x the dmg maybe its playable again

[@PixLNickz]

for sure a great unit, i love em

[@m.koller7639]

I like the Retiarii. For me this unit is a well balanced unit. Most of the time i have great results with them :)

[@TV-ko8kd]

Западные застрельщики с мастерством намного сильнее этих ребят в дальнем бою так как выдают критический урон по 8-10к и по 3-4к обычный и их значительно больше в отряде, они могут стрелять навесной траекторией и у них гораздо дешевле ремонт. Сейчас почти вся т6 пехота неактуальная, особенно после введения мастерства.

[@zacknoxim1847]

agreed man what a shame

[@cryzhentia7514]

Make a balance change post

[@bells1485]

Hmm, this unit is kinda not worthy for 300 leadership cost. Better picking Other javeliner unit. Nothing interesting from this unit.

[@CrazyPumpking]

its trash!! its better if they put it as a green troops. it suck so bad!!