Retro emergency light (with schematic and waveforms)

What's inside a fluorescent fixture that automatically lights up during power outages. An 8W T5 fluorescent tube with an inverter, a battery and a small transformer for charging. I reverse engineered the schematic, explained how does it work and measured the tube voltage and current waveforms on an oscilloscope. Trying to modify the fixture to operate on mains voltage using a magnetic ballast.
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[@jesuschal3802]

I hope my humble gratitude will support this amazing effort you put on spreading knowledge. Thank you!

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Thank you for your massive support! I will definitely do my best to keep making these videos ;).

[@omniyambot9876]

​@@DiodeGoneWildi hope I can give even more if I graduate!

[@halollisimo]

i'm always anxious about people bending components like at 2:27, but to add to anxiety you also had windows device disconnect sound in the background to reinforce the whole thing

[@DiodeGoneWild]

I'm reluctant to bend components in something I want to repair and keep using, but this board is rubbish.

[@beatrute2677]

lol, i use to live in a apartment complex and one of these caught fire and the whole building had to be evacuated.

[@ZvukyVlaku]

Zdravím a posílám poděkování za tvorbu na tomto kanálu i na webových stránkách. I díky nim se mi před rokem a půl podařilo vystudovat VŠ s oborem zaměřeným na elektroniku a nyní tyto znalosti využívám ve svém zaměstnání (vývojář HW). Mimochodem mám doma podobné zařízení (asi i podobně staré), ale ten "předřadník" je tam poněkud sofistikovanější (byť také samokmitající) - zdá se, že má zapojené i žhavení... Pokud by byl zájem, můžu poslat.

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Díky za tu obří podporu! To si snad ani nezasloužím :). Jsem moc rád, že můj kanál je někomu užitečný. Pokud bys chtěl ten předřadník věnovat, určitě bych se do něj rád podíval a prozkoumal to v jednom z videí. Napiš mi maila, dám ti adresu.

[@wolfrobben6914]

Thanks again for your entertaining and informative videos this month.

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Thanks for your support ;)

[@Conservator.]

By how fast you speak I’ve got the impression that you’ve fully recovered from the brainfog from the creature. 👍😁

[@BritishEngineer]

You might have brainfog…

[@Deepxrobi]

😂

[@DonatellaBensi]

What's brainfog?

[@Conservator.]

@@DonatellaBensi Some people suffer from (usually temporary) memory loss after a Covid infection. That’s called brainfog. DGW mentioned that he suffered from that a few videos ago.

[@DonatellaBensi]

@@Conservator. ohhh I didn't know that, it must be bad

[@Ale.K7]

An authentic "Robicon" capacitor! Never seen one of those before, but I have encountered "Rudoycon" and my favorite "Rulycon" (all copies of the Japanese brand Rubycon).

[@JohnnyX50]

Dobry Den :) Many thanks again for the detail and knowledge you provide :) Given their weird shape and texture, I have always wondered how a ballast is put together, what's inside. I assume they are just like a transformer, but different. Much love and thanks from the UK :)

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Thank you for your support ;). The magnetic ballast is just 1 winding. The core has a narrow flat shape just to fit into the typical shape of the fixture. It's typically a core made of E+I or T+U metal sheets, with an air gap. I guess the flat narrow shape makes it less efficient than if it was on a typical transformer core shape. A long narrow center column of the core has a longer circumference than a more square one with the same cross section, so each turn is longer, resulting in more resistance.

[@JohnnyX50]

Oh my I did not expect a reply 😁 You are always welcome. Get a nice fire extinguisher for next video 😆 Thank you for helping me understand ballast, i never expected them to be like that inside 🤔 it amazes me that someone did a lot of experimenting to make a tube work, I wonder how many times they exploded 🤣 Thank you again, it means a lot x

[@mernokimuvek]

You should definitely make a long video about the fixtrues with electronic ballasts. I just keep hoarding them until I can buy them.

[@airmann90]

I've seen those electrolytics in crappy alarm clocks lol. Robicon... Not ruby. Haha

[@309electronics5]

Deffinitly RUBIshcon 😂

[@johnwelbourn3811]

Definitely explore the drivers. I used to take those "emergency lighting" fixtures totally for granted, that they'd work if needed, it's a good job I didn't know how crap the circuitry was. Judging by the speed of your delivery, you sound a lot better DGW, good to hear. I hope you're feeling OK

[@mrlux0716]

I just love your videos about fluorescents, you explained how the driver works and even turned the lamp into preheat at the end, incredible, if you know of more things to talk about on the subject I will be very happy if you do

[@atmel9077]

The "inverter" circuit is similar to a "Joule Thief" or "Ringing Choke" converter circuit. It is a Joule Thief with an isolated feedback winding and a series capacitor. There is a diode in antiparallel with the transistor's base in order to provide a return path for the negative pulses on the feedback winding. In order to light up a fluorescent tube, the circuit must first provide a high voltage pulse, then limit the current, and the Joule Thief / Ringing Choke naturally does that. Another option would be to use an electronic ballast circuit with a step up transformer, but that would add quite a lot of components. (base drive transformer, 2 transistors, 2 diodes, LC circuit) in addition to the step up transformer At some point I thought a series capacitor could help striking the tube in both polarities, , but this would not work given the very asymmetrical waveform. Also, no winding of a transformer can have a dc voltage on it.

[@TheSpotify95]

Really not bad, thank you for sharing this! Seems like these things are not designed for frequent power failures, and are only for emergency use... these things absolutely destroy tubes, so LED variants would obviously be way way better. I was also thinking, is there a decent way of repurposing this thing, and you answered it nicely. I would have this as a regular 240V 8W tube fitting for normal operation, like any other standard light fitting.

[@mernokimuvek]

I will always prefer fluorescent and other discharge lamps over LEDs.

[@redpheonix1000]

As much as I like LEDs for their efficiency (and pretty much everyone, I think), they're also just boring. You turn them on, they light up and that's it. For modern lighting, they're absolutely the best, but discharge lamps are still really neat to have even if just as a novelty. The flashing and pinging of a fluorescent tube, the startup and hum of mecury vapor, sodium and metal halide lamps is just really neat, plus their quirks like the inablility to restart when they're hot.

[@mernokimuvek]

@@redpheonix1000 If everything will be replaced with LEDs the world will be extremely boring. The best era was when incandescent, halogen, low pressure sodium, fluorescent, high pressure sodium, high pressure mercury, metal halide and early LED lamps coexisted. I also like when a CFL was siwtched on and warmed up transitioning from pink to white light. It was also more comfortable when entering a dark room not having full brightness instantly.

[@MrDubje]

Just leave it running for a couple of hours on proper AC. It will take care of the blackened ends a little if you're lucky.

[@kellymarieangeljohnson114]

Hello that video was very interesting please show us the electronic ballast flourescent you have. My workshop has 1 HF ballast lamp and 2 36 watt tubes on normal 50 cycle ballasts to light it.

[@haczyk84]

Wow, great video I learned some new things. Thanks for all those numbers from real balast. And yes, they are going to bake if starter goes short. When I was working at some factory I go around time to time and replacing some. Many of them was brown and crispy.

[@twocvbloke]

Throw a Philips HF-Matchbox Blue 109 fluoro driver in there and just use it as a mains-powered light, give it some life, though maybe also get it a new, un-sputtered 80cri tube... :P

[@mernokimuvek]

A sputtered tube will still have a long life if it is powered inductive or capacitive coupling. You don't need electrodes if you use it as an induction lamp. A Tesla coil will do the job. I operated fluorescent lamps with very dark ends that I found discarded and as a collector I brought them home.

[@cdoublejj]

LEDs do not work like bulbs, bulbs diffuse light better than LED, bulbs literally put out a different light. Technology Connections channel has several videos by now on this topic,

[@kjjustinXD]

i Recently Picked up a Pocket Fluorescent Flashlight that runs on 2 AA Batteries, its an Osram Dulux Pocket. Never saw a Tube used as a Flashlight before, thats why i got this thing. it has a Very nice Light output but it Only lasts about 2 Hours.

[@schaltnetzteil495]

Those electrolytic capacitors are "Robicon", which are fake Rubycon capacitors!

[@athosworld]

10:28 Its because the circuit is similar to the ones in electric fly swatters, basically in feedback based oscillators, the voltage becomes so high without a load that it destroys itself, that’s probably why fly swatters have a capacitor in them.

[@liam3284]

Reminds me that most low voltage light drivers used to be awful to tubes. Instant start (no preheat) asymmetric wave form. Used to get more life out of the tubes by physically reversing them.

[@qutube100]

Yes please explore the other battery backup driver cos we GET IT!

[@mernokimuvek]

Is this self-oscillating design DCM or CCM?

[@German_byte]

Ever Ready used to market a battery powered fluorescent tube light for use in sheds etc.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Even them camping tube lights had a terrible inverter. Now LED inverter are getting to a stage that failure rectification is costlier than the power saving!

[@mart43]

Now I am interested in how poor the quality is of a modern emergency light.

[@Alexelectricalengineering]

Beautiful, I was learning something new about the meaning of the ballast markings.

[@wdavem]

The poor design here shows how much 'plenty of business people' care about actual people.

[@1marcelfilms]

Convert it to a 220v magnetic ballast

[@xDR1TeK]

I never had to play with fluorescent lamps, and surely finding a good explanation is even much more difficult to decipher. Not bad at all covering things here. I got ccfl tubes that i would like to get them lighting for the fun of them, but i got the royer oscillator messing up, no way to make one without ferrite materials. Finding a good shape for hobby use isnt easy either. Toroidal ones are difficult to wind up because of the number of turns needed. If anyone here has a good reference online with the math behind ccfl tubes, I'd appreciate it.

[@mernokimuvek]

CCFLs use higher voltage and lower current than HCFLs. They also have negative resistance, requring a higher voltage for igniton and current limiting. You can buy CCFL inverters or salvage them from old LCD TVs, monitors and laptops made in the early 2010s or earlier.

[@xDR1TeK]

@@mernokimuvek I tried building a basic high voltage transformer from ferrites, eventually I managed to get an arc out, but the tubes weren't lighting up all the way, like half the tube was lit up. Then got an arc out of the circuit I was building and hit my thumb's nail and it hurt like the dickens. That's when I gave up. The circuit was a royer oscillator then doing a high voltage rectification. Then I tried a high inductance transformer to act as a pulse generator. They all did something but not light the tubes well enough. I'm not sure what to make and what to expect in return.

[@mernokimuvek]

@@xDR1TeK CCFL tubes are meant to run on radio frequency AC, there is no nned for rectification. Powering them with DC causes the mercury vapor to collect on one end of the tube, the other end will be dimmer. Also if you don't use rectifier RF will burn but not shock.

[@xDR1TeK]

@@mernokimuvek oh, that's why I can smell barbecue! Alright then, need royer oscillator with high turns on secondary. Can you advise on what the voltage should be per meter of tube?

[@mernokimuvek]

@@xDR1TeK I'm not sure, maybe you can find a datasheet. But you can light up any type of discharge lamp with a Tesla coil or AC flyback transformer from old TV.

[@cdoublejj]

do you have a soldering iron?

[@liam3284]

This was a battery cooker too

[@Dr.-Smart]

this one feels rushed , are you doin ok ?

[@elianasfour]

Hello Why not using the housing to make emergengy light with some led and lithuim battery

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Then I don't need the housing for this ;)

[@LMB222]

Simplest trick eith lead acid batteries: add water. This won't save the battery - when PbS has formed on the electrodes, you can only recycle them - but if the battery dried out quickly, it will at least draw currdnt and have a minimal cspacity.

[@mernokimuvek]

It is actually lead(II) sulfate, PbSO4 which forms on the plates, not PbS lead(II) sulfide. Cody's Lab showed that you can make your own batteries with just lead plates and a container filled with 30-40% sulfuric acid.

[@LMB222]

​@@mernokimuvekyes, PbSO4 is what forms in normal conditions. If you leave a lead acid battery for longer, it will discharge and form PbS, which isn't soluble in water, so it's game over by that stage. There are some *theoretical* methods of rescuing such a cell, but they are more of an urban lore than practical solutions.

[@mernokimuvek]

@@LMB222 When the battery is discharged, there is PbSO4. When the battery is charged one electrode is bare Pb and the other is covered in PbO2. Both compounds are insoluble in water.

[@mysock351C]

I think the third number in the temperature rating might be the maximum permissible ambient temperature around the ballast. On the one with just three numbers, the 50°C delta T plus the 80°C presumed ambient adds up to 130°C max operating temp. Edit: Doesn't make as much sense for the ones with multiple numbers with the capacitive ratings, tho.

[@jeffm2787]

Kind of surprised you don't have Electroboom moments with the way you like to connect mains 😃

[@KeritechElectronics]

A classic linear power supply, none of that SMPS rubbish! Nice simple circuitry. I like the single transistor being enough to disable the converter - you can even add a mode switch to allow the light to be on when on AC power. Nice Metra Blansko nixie DMM :)

[@foobarables]

Except that the lamp is driven by a an almost classic self oscillating SMPS.

[@andymouse]

LOL !@@foobarables

[@rex-up9ln]

I have a similar one.

[@andymouse]

Great video and yeah, the LED stuff I get it and may your salt forever flow freely...cheers.

[@tajtrlik1111]

Ďakujem za toto video s popisom činnosti tohto zariadenia, ten menič je naozaj veľmi jednoduchý, viem že ty si navrhol oveľa lepší, ktorý máš na svojich stránkach, v článku s názvom "Modernizace přenosného zářivkového svítidla PŽS-01", v tom svietidle bol pôvodne menič na podobnom princípe ako tu vo videu uvedený a ty si tam vyrobil oveľa lepší. A ešte chcem napísať, že ja chápem prečo v tomto prípade prerábky tohto svietidla na sieťové napätie nechceš použiť svietivé diódy, preto lebo chceš využiť komponent, ktorý tam bol pôvodne - t.j. pôvodnú žiarivku, bez toho by to trochu postrádalo zmysel, lebo z pôvodného zariadenia by vlasne zostala len skrinka.

[@janno288]

My school recently replaced their backup fluorescent fixtures with LEDs replacements, that have the same fixture but smaller and the outside needed to be repainted, even tho they couldve just swapped the boards. But they also come with a seperate battery boxes that blink all the time and are really annoying. In some rooms you cant even dimm them down all the way because the green LED is so bright. The LED alternates of flashing in green and orange, thankfully its not a blue LED.

[@Stelios.Posantzis]

Ah ... I always wondered how these things work and whether it's worth salvaging an old one...

[@florabee9283]

The LED lamps in my house have me missing fluorescent ones.

[@garzhao5924]

Thanks!

[@matid8453]

I love when fluorescent lamp lights up wth normal balast and starter

[@BritishEngineer]

13:52 I have that exact tridonic I took from a fly zapping machine, also the high voltage transformer

[@VICTORMONDAINMONDAIN]

8W T5 NEON 6V 6500K COOL

[@Excray80]

3:20 Is dry. Open the cover and put inside deionized water.

[@haleemathulbadriya]

@diode gone wild are you bald I saw wave form as baldform 😂😂

[@MRElektronka]

Ahoj dlouho se na tebe už dívám a miluju tvoje video hodně mi pomohli při mých projektech a právě jsem zjistil že jsi z české republiky skvělá práce pokračuj dál😅

[@gregwmanning]

Yes please explore more fluros and discuss the capacitor

[@bmaj55]

make a video about your incandescents collection

[@German_byte]

Thanks. I loved that battery powered tube circuit.

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Thank you for your support ;)

[@PeterMilanovski]

Wow! One of those ballast were made in a country that doesn't exist anymore! Could you imagine trying to explain how you were born in a country that doesn't exist...

[@DiodeGoneWild]

I was born in Czechoslovakia, which also doesn't exist any more :).

[@1pcfred]

Your odysse account is still broken.

[@OkiemElektroniki]

Will you ever try making your own inverter to power a tube? Like 12/24V for 8W tube

[@DiodeGoneWild]

danyk.cz/zarivk_m_en.html I already did many many years ago ;)

[@VICTORMONDAINMONDAIN]

VICTOR MONDAON OK

[@techtinkerin]

Best oldskool electronics channel ever😁👍

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

I would've put in a new batter and one of yours ir2153 based fluorescent tube drivers. But that's just me, I'm weird :)

[@analoghardwaretops3976]

What would a reliable driver do here..that the single transistor already doesn't do?? When the overall circuit design is not appropriate for this application.

[@mrjohhhnnnyyy5797]

@@analoghardwaretops3976A design that wouldn't stress the the tube. No DC current that makes mercury migrate, preheat the filaments so they don't sputter all over the glass

[@ovidiulu]

How does the current waveform of the same tube look like with an inductive ballast? Does the tube become sort of a diode because the emissive layer was stripped at one end?

[@DiodeGoneWild]

The tube surprisingly still ran symmetrically, no rectifying effect. There's still some emissive layer left on the blackened electrode. The current is probably close to a sine wave and the voltage close to square wave on an inductive ballast.

[@qwertykeyboard5901]

That battery might be savable.

[@mototola86]

It lights all the time!

[@dalmatianlife]

How would you make a 12v driver for fluorescent tube so the end does not get black? ?

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Many years ago I did it this way: danyk.cz/zarivk_m_en.html Something self-oscillating with 2 transistors would probably also work.

[@mernokimuvek]

You can also make a symmetrical waveform with a single transistor if you use it as an Armstrong oscillator. Similar to a VTTC.

[@VICTORMONDAINMONDAIN]

COOL OUI MERIE

[@VICTORMONDAINMONDAIN]

8W T5 6V DC NEON

[@rezatavan5048]

Excellent ❤❤❤

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

It's refreshing to see such a simple design. Some fo the Florescent EM lights were ridiculously complex! And very expensive. I had to convert a Zumtobel emergency light to led. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4Wappmue7ybgM0

[@lmwlmw4468]

Great video.

[@MiamiMillionaire]

👍