The Commodore 128 - My favorite 8-bit home computer

[@BilHerd]

Excellent summary! BTW the 1902 monitor is made to fit on the flat C128 by virtue of having two rear legs. The front of the monitor sits on the flat part of the C128 and the rear legs hold it level. :) -Bil Herd (olde Commodore Engineer)

[@retrobitstv]

Interesting, I did not know that about the 1902! I even had one up till a few weeks ago. Running a C-Net 128 BBS in my early years certainly played a huge role in informing my education and career choices and I believe it gave me a huge advantage in what followed. So thank you for this wonderful machine and the lifetime of opportunities it enabled!

[@JamieOrlando]

Nice! My 1084 has rear legs as well so I will probably use it with my new-to-me C128 since my A500 decided to go crazy.

[@bilherd7913]

@@JamieOrlando I could not remember if the 1084 had them or not. Excellent.

[@seisoloumano]

@BilHerd, you complained about the absence of an interrupt signal from the 8563 vdc. Why they didn't used it in 8568 either? With an updated routine wouldn't it be slightly faster?

[@c128stuff]

@@seisoloumano The 8568 came after Bil left Commodore, so I doubt he can answer that... but yeah... it would have been good if they had added support for that. How much it saves really depends a lot on what code is doing with vdc. What it especially allows is making efficient use of VDC's copy and fill acceleration without having to poll VDC every so often to see if it is done yet, and it could allow much easier syncing to vblank without wasting lots of cpu time on waiting for that.

[@st.brendancatholicchurchel9868]

Great video! Enjoyed it. I went from a VIC20 to a C64 breadbin to a C128 and still have all my original computers along with original drives and software including both GEOS 64 and 128. All still work. For the C128 I have a 1571 and a 1581. I not only continued playing my C64 games on it, being a teacher and taking classes to obtain my Masters degree, I used it write papers, type letters, make my own educational materials (study guides, worksheets, puzzles, etc.), print banners and signs, and a monthly newsletter for our local education association. The C128 was a great computer!

[@FarpointFarms]

I've always felt that Geos 128 with a REU and a 1581 was every bit as good as a Mac of the era for a fraction of the price. I used mine up through the late 90's for running a small business. The monitor got flakey and that was why i finally sold it. Now I wish I had another. I'd upgraded the video ram to 64K, maxxed out the RUE to 2 meg, and had a 1571 as well as a 1581 to help GEOS be all that it would be. The 1531 mouse and 1801 monitor rounded out the setup. I also had a swiftlink for BBS usage until they faded away in the late 90's. It certainly was a great system!

[@retrobitstv]

Nice, thanks for sharing! It's pretty incredible what you got for the price and what it was capable of, especially considering the cost of a new Mac back then!

[@cybermodo]

@@retrobitstv , sad truth is that with all that money wasted on REU, 1571 + 1581, monitor and mouse - would've been enough for buying quite powerful PC system, far more better than that overpriced Commodore junk. And Windows/GEM GUI systems worked great on PC. If cheap MAC was the goal, there was always Atari ST (Jackintosh). C64 was cool cheap computer, but peripherals were atrociously expensive. Especially in later period, when for example, 1541 drive retained the same price as 40MB hard drive for PC!? That was ludicrous.

[@eng3d]

@@cybermodo not really, pc was a hell of expensive, i used a mga video card + no audio (beeper) for a long time while my atari 800xl had sounds and color for a fraction

[@cybermodo]

@@eng3d True, back in 1991 I got PC with monochrome Hercules, and C64 was cheerful, fast and colorful in comparison, for a fraction... but other resources were non-comparable. Hard drive, fast CPU on 16MHz, 1MB of RAM, 1.2 floppy, sharp monitor with 720*348 pixels and cool GUI... C64 with GEOS couldn't compete at all. Besides, PC owner could've purchased old 2nd hand NES for a dime, and have fun.

[@Ahamshep]

Growing up with a commador 64 in the 80's I bought a used 128 for $500 CAD in 1990 than bought an AMD 386 DX40 in 1992 for $1200 CAD in Toronto. I was a little behind the curve, but that 386 sure beat the pants off the 128.

[@gnustep]

The 128 is the best of the 8bit era. I had one and I loved it.

[@DerNikDE]

I owned a 128 back these days with almost all Hardware options, including the 1581. I even hat a graphics extension from a Swiss company that provided real high-res… I don’t exactly know what the name of this option was. Well, now looking back i have to say the 128 flat was and still is the most beautiful homecomputer - not ignoring the Apples of that time.

[@georgemargaris]

I had the 128 D, it's where my love for programming started

[@georgemargaris]

@referral madness , now? a bit of everything.... am also forced to constantly learn new ones. Only C/C++ has been with me for the longest time.

[@BillAnt]

Having a built-in debugger was a big bonus, however with all the utility cartridges it's kind of a moot point.

[@user-vp1sc7tt4m]

Mine too!

[@MrJojofoto]

I had the C-128 and the Amiga 500... such amazing times

[@mrbrad4637]

Great content! GEOS was mind blowing in it's day.. It blew me away when I first booted it up on my C64, amazing OS for the hardware and even better on the C128.. I always wanted a C128.. It is also my favourite retro computer along with the C64.. But if I was going to purchase a 80s retro computer now, it would be the C128

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the feedback! I agree, it's amazing what they were able to achieve on a 1 MHz system with only 64KB of RAM. Contrast that to today and Windows calculator takes up almost 22 megabytes of memory by itself! Software developers back then really needed to squeeze every last ounce out of those machines. Mad respect :)

[@mrbrad4637]

@@retrobitstv Absolutely, it really puts it into perspective when you say Windows calculator takes up 22Mb!! Games aswell blow me away for example Mayhem in Monsterland looks and plays better than many 16bit console games of that era and it's running on a 1Mhz (or technically slightly less here in Australia with the PAL system) and only 64Kb of RAM.. Incredible programming skill. Sams Journey is another one, also the likes of turrican etc.. not too mention some of the scene demo's. I love the fact they are still making quality games for my favourite retro system. I really wished developers in the day took advantage of the C128 and made more games for it... GEOS 128 really took advantage of the 128 though.. I have many games and programs for GEOS and some of them are very impressive and fairly unknown to most. Anyway all the best with your channel, You have great content and well put together videos.

[@ivanl.8201]

Thank you for the video! I remember going to London with my mom in 1985, where she bought a ZX Sinclair Spectrum+ for me. But, by 1987, I was literally drooling over the C128, and loved the idea of it having 3 CPUs in one unit and being able to do so much. But it wasn't meant to be. My friends started buying Amigas in the late 80's, and I got a PC XT clone for my 15th birthday. I do remember seeing one of these C128's in person for the first time in 1991. It was in our high school computer lab, and we were doing assignments in Turbo Pascal on it. It was on its way to being outclassed by the PC's that were starting to replace it, but I thought it was so cool that it was still able to run Borland's Turbo Pascal via CP/M mode, and I recall that it ran it quite respectably :).

[@JohnGuillorykf5qeo]

Only 2 cpus. But it had c64, c128, and cp/m mode, so 3 modes but only 2 cpus.

[@jondough76]

After finding this channel, I have enjoyed watching several of your videos. I do have one suggestion/request. The simulated screen borders you use, while looking nice, have the effect of shrinking the video output being displayed. The shots without an added border are much easier to read in my opinion. Keep up the good work!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the suggestion. I have added a poll to the community posts section to get a better feel for what devices people are using. Right now, it looks like mobiles are on top which surprised me. I can totally see that the overlays make everything too small on mobile. I have been more worried about 240p video captures displayed at full screen on large format TVs and computers looking bad, which is why I keep them intentionally small. I'll definitely try out some new stuff armed with this data. Thanks again!

[@DasIllu]

The 128 was the perfect machine for me. Build in machine code monitor, powerful basic, practically dual heal setupand so on. I had a 128D in a metal case with 64k VDC ram, an REU with 256k extra ram, 1581&1571 external drives and all the stuff. I would just start writing programs, never knowing where it would take me. When i got my first IBM compatible i just used it to run TASM and a homebre transfer program for centronic -> userport. i think it was until 1999 when i gave it all away, that i would spend nights on end tinkering. Fond memories.

[@jldel615]

Great video on a favorite topic of mine. The Commodore 128 was a favorite computer of mine back in the day. I had the computer itself, the Commodore monitor, the new andimproved disc drive, and a great printer from what company I can’t remember. But it was a great set up. I wasn’t really a game guy, but I ran all kinds of productivity software and office type software on my C1 28. Among the most memorable and my favorites were GEOS, Word Writer 128, Data Manager 128, Swift Calc 128, Publish-It, Checkbook, Poster maker, PocketWriter, Copy II, Desk Manager And so much more. Sadly, it was released probably a year or two late to capture the market it needed to capture. By the time it was released, there was too much competition from new 16 bit machines.

[@michaelblair5566]

The Commodore 128 was my second computer. I got mine in 1985 after I'd had a VIC 20 since 1981.

[@TSteffi]

What crippled performance for CP/M on those home computers was the lack of a terminal. Just recently I ported CP/M 3 to a Z80 SBC and the terminal code is by far the most complex part of it. Usually a CP/M system would just send a character to the serial port and be done with it. But when it has to be it's own terminal, it has to keep track of screen coordinates, handle control codes, translate Screen coordinates to VRAM addresses and so forth. There is a huge amount of overhead just controlling the screen.

[@keithmcwhan8613]

I always thought the 128 was really under appreciated. I wanted to upgrade from the C64 to one but then the Amiga came out so I went with it instead. A friend of mine had one and it was truly fantastic.

[@cathrynm]

C128 was a good PC, I think just maybe a year or two too late.

[@c128stuff]

I borrowed a 128 for a little while in the 1980s for writing some software for it.. and liked it instantly. But like you, I did get an Amiga... and it took many years before I actually got a 128 (DCR). Now? I have 2 working 128 DCRs and spare parts to keep those working for some time to come... and no longer own any Amigas. The Amiga was certainly very interesting in the mid 80s to mid 90s... but long term, I find the 128 much more interesting and fun to use, and to develop for.

[@mattx5499]

@@c128stuff C128 wasn't that much of an advancement over C64. It was quite too late for 8-bits in 1985. There was Amiga and Atari ST on the market the same year. And Amiga was groundbreaking with far better graphics, sound and more memory. Amiga also had real multitasking and GUI OS that really made it nice to use. I understand that you may like C128, but it was no competition for 16-bits in a long run.

[@c128stuff]

​I am one of the most active current C128 developers, and very very knowledgeable with regards to the machine as well as the c64. The differences are much bigger than most people think, and are mostly left unexplored. A good example of one of the rare bits of software making good use of the extras the 128 has is the C128 version of Petscii robots. And I'm sorry to say, but the numbers simply show you wrong. The C128 and C128D sold close to 5 million, which is approx the same as all Amiga models together, and over twice as many as all Atari ST models together. The Amiga 1000 followed about half a year after the C128, and was in a completely different price bracket, and it would take until the A500 in 1987 for the Amiga to make that platform accessible to a much wider public. Even the ST was in an entirely different price bracket initially. Bottomline is the C128 was close to the end of the 8 bit era, but having done a lot better than most people think, and being a bigger improvement over the C64 than most people realize until they spent some serious time looking into the details.

[@mattx5499]

@@c128stuff Of course it's main selling point was the price range and also the compatibility with C64 was it's main advantage. No doubt, but C128 should've been released along with C64, as a professional computer with built-in 3'5 single sided floppy drive boundled with office suite on a cartridge. 80 Columns Mode was perfect for text processors and spreadsheets. The problem was that C= sucked at advertising their computers at business/professional market which resulted with it's bancruptcy.

[@ThePaulLondoner]

The Commodore 128 is certainly an amazing computer. I call it "the fixed an upgraded Commodore 64". I think that the reason it wasn't more successful was because it cost more than the C64 and the C64 wasn't discontinued, leaving the C128 in its place. I'm planning to make a reproduction C128D(CR) using a USB keyboard, an emulator, and a Raspberry Pi computer hidden in a box designed to look like a C128D(CR) casing. I'm not sure how to make the box, though. As for if there were any 8 bit computers that are more amazing than the Commodore 128, I think there may have been, but they weren't sold in the USA. These are the MSX2, MSX2+, and MSX Turbo-R range of computers. They were all based around the Z80 CPU, although the Turbo-R also had the R800 CPU. I think the graphics on these computers were somewhere between the Atari ST and the Amiga. Another amazing computer was the Enterprise, available in 64K and 128K versions. This was based around the Z80, but with its own custom graphics and sound chips. Once more, the graphics were better than all other 8 bit computers except MSX2, MSX2+, and the later MSX Turbo-R. You can read more about MSX2 in my blog post commodore64crap.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/msx2-the-c64-killer-computer-banned-from-the-english-speaking-world-part-1/ My blog is mainly explaining what was wrong with the Commodore 64, with some posts about other computers and why they were better. I sold my Commodore 64 after 11 months. The Commodore 128 is featured on commodore64crap.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/the-commodore-128-the-fixed-and-upgraded-commodore-64/ as well as in a few more posts.

[@AgeofReason]

Great show. I had the 128 in the 90s. Novaterm was awesome, didn't have any actual 128 software outside of CPM from what I remember, maybe some corny text based Tix tac toe game. Had the complete original set though, our aunt bought it in the 80s and retained that awesome 128/64/ BASIC bible user manual. Trying to find someone who put the Magic Flute SID program from that book online. I still hear it in my head.

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for your support! Yea, it's too bad there simply wasn't a lot of developer support for the 128 mode because it had so much potential. Is this what you were looking for? I haven't heard of it before. csdb.dk/release/?id=2472

[@SelfIndulgentGamer]

I always wanted one of these, I never understood why Commodore did not push this more? :)

[@RacerX-]

Excellent video, subscribed. I also have fond memories of the 128. Keep up the good work and I am looking forward to future episodes.

[@retrobitstv]

Awesome, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the support!

[@ericshepperd4484]

Great video Matt! I remember when we upgraded to the 128, our first ever upgrade of a computer. I was full of expectation that the games would be twice as good! Now I know why that never really happened. Too bad I never got to use GEOS, I had no idea the 128 even had a mouse until I saw your video.

[@retrobitstv]

Haha yea, same ol' games, but the 80 columns was great for BBSing!

[@ericshepperd4484]

@@retrobitstv I bet, too bad I ended up in Korea in the late 80s, no BBSing. Plenty of "backups" though!

[@carlwells9504]

My exposure to home computers was my friends 128D - his Dad also had a PC which it blew the pants off for games! I later got a C64C around 1986/87 but always envious of the 128 with the monitor and built in Disk drive.

[@Cpt.Zer0]

Got the suitcase version 128D. (And 2x A-1200 in pieces and a functional A-500, one day i will get around to fix these)

[@MiharuHiramu]

Nice informative video. I had a C64C as a child but my cousins had the 128. I was always jealous of the numpad and separate cursor keys. In the end I got my own 128 much later but haven't gotten a chance to do anything but play 64 games since I can't find any 128 exclusive software.

[@williamofbaskerville5777]

I had the Commodore 64, then the Commodore 128 and after that the AMIGA. The best programming experience gave me the Commodore 128 BASIC 7.0 - and because of that I just ordered a Colour Maximite 2, but that's a different story.

[@QualityModelRailroad]

The C128 was a great hardware machine but sadly not enough "128 mode" software before I sold mine. Geo's 128 had not come out yet before I sold mine. If I had Geo's 128 I bet I would of kept it longer . Note basic 7.0 was awesome best built in basic ever.

[@timecapsule5604]

To me regardless of everything that the 128 can do, it's the BIGGER brother who's the best 8 bit computer of all time the amazing best selling home computer of all time the magnificent Commodore 64!

[@michaelb4439]

I wonder, was that commercial narrated by the voice of the Hitchhiker's Guide? The 128 with GEOS was the computer I took to college, and quickly became the best-loved computer I've ever used.

[@meneerjansen00]

Great informative video. I always think that video's like this benefit greatly from showing the hardware from any angle, inside out.

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for your support!

[@RussMichaels]

I ran my first business on my C128D using GEOS, superscript, superbase and supercalc... In fact I still have that C128D.

[@telengardforever7783]

BBSing on the C128 rocked!! I remember being able to use any ANSI/ASCII BBS that existed even though they were intended for IBM PC's. Most SYSOPs on those BBS's had no idea it was a Commodore 128 using their BBS as it worked flawlessly. Ironically, I had more problems with Commodore 64 based BBS's than I ever had with IBM and Amiga based BBS's.

[@lovemadeinjapan]

Good to hear. It is one of the things I am going to get this machine for. Recreating some 80's dialup stuff.

[@kens32052]

My first computer was the TI99/4, then the TI99/4a which was in theory a 16-bit computer. After that a got the 64, 128, C64 Executive, Amiga 500, Apple 2, and then IBM PC. Now I wish I had kept them...sigh.

[@gd515051]

The 128 was my first computer. Had it for about a year and then moved on to the Amiga 500.

[@GustoTheGamer]

C128 my first computer! I throw it away in the bin back in 1997......damn I regret this! The 128 great memories

[@retrobitstv]

Ouch! Yea, in hindsight I bet a lot of us would have held onto things from the day!

[@fcycles]

The C128 was my first computer... I knew Logo on IBM PC from school and programming (especially graphics) was my thing. The Basic V7 was really nice to have has poking commands looked too obscures. The 80-columns mode really bring a nice touch for his look and color for text mode. What kind of software I wrote in that early day? Drawing graphics (with interlaced 1 black line out of 2), phonebook, a super mario bros animation, designing space ship in the sprite editor and make them move with a space background, petscii game prototype, disk drive sector reader & trying out a custom disk format in basic where the file catalog is located on the first track/sector), trying to create some AI Chat-GPT stuff... I spend hours on the CP/M just playing in it... This is also where I first discover hexadecimal base... by doing: graphic 2,1:monitor:f 2100 2100 XX and trying a hypothesis I was having that perhaps values from 0 to F represents an arrangement of 4 pixels... and that together it control up to 8 pixels... so I try: 01 and plot on a piece of papere where the pixel lite up.. then 02, 04, 08, 10, 20, 40 and 80... At first, I though hum almost 2 pixels seem to not work... then I try again and yes seem so! From the table I wrote I then create a letter and write the 8 bytes that form and BINGO! Gotcha!

[@lilithcal]

Loved programming assembly with the C128 using its hardware for sound.

[@kcharles8857]

A very long time ago, I walked into a shop to buy a Commodore 128-D. I walked out with an Amiga 500. Thus began my addiction:)

[@richj120952]

I bought a C128 the day they came out. (At Target) I had a C64, and wanted to use the 128 mode. Not much was available for it. I upgraded the 128 graphics chips. Went and bought the RAM expansion when it came out, and guess what. Commodore had sold me a 128 that did not support the RAM expansion. (Even though they advertised that it would.) They committed fraud as far as I was concerned. I kept using it though. Had the 1200 baud modem, 2 1571s and 1 1581 drives. Mouse, light pen, and even the 1902 monitor. (Along with a commodore printer 803.) Wanted GEOS128, but by then I needed to move on to a PC clone for work. Gave the 128 away along with a couple of hundred games and programs. Because that Commodore sold me a defective product and would not fix it, I swore I would never buy anything from them again.

[@brorelien8447]

I get a C128 from my uncle. What I like with this kind of machine, it's the ability to go to a monitor easily and try to understand what's going on.

[@retrobitstv]

I'll admit back in the day, I had no idea how to use the 128's ML monitor. I learned some assembly years later, but still have very little 6502 experience.

[@ezragonzalez8936]

I am 44 the 128 was my first computer had the whole set up drives 512k expansion an okidata dot matrix printer and monitor .. geos was great I finally tossed it in the trash back in 2006 should had donated it to someone instead no one wanted obsolete computers even back then . cheers from Salt Lake City

[@gamedoutgamer]

Great vid on the 128!

[@e8root]

I recently got Commodore 128D - plastic with MOS6581R3 and nice keyboard, nothing is yellowed. Had to remove PSU fan (I'll probably put some noctua + resistor to force some air flow) and I will have to install Lumafix128 and some mod to change drive device id. Otherwise it looks supreme on the desk and keyboard feels very nice.

[@carnright]

Great dry humor, looking forward to watching more videos 🙂

[@BillAnt]

Dry as a dried out 80's electrolytic capacitor. xD

[@eebuckeye]

Excellent video! The C128 was great! Would be great to see more of them!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for your support. I plan on making more C128 content!

[@10MARC]

Why have I not seen your channel before??? Very odd. I love my C128D, she is loaded with JiffyDOS and an external 8/9 drive switch. I found some great CP/M Kaypro disks at a surplus shop the other day, and they booted right up on my C128. What an amazing machine.

[@retrobitstv]

Hey Doug, welcome! The channel is pretty new, just since the pandemic started. Nice, thanks for sharing your C128 memories!

[@jlfaria1971]

Hola amigo en el año 86 mi papá me regalo una commodore 128, mi primera computadora y la ame como nunca, fue mi premio por pasar de 3er año a 4to año de bachillerato, y la conserve hasta que entre a la universidad y me vi forzado a cambiarme a un 286 clon, porque en la universidad la carrera de ingeniería de sistema solo usaban maquinas compatibles con IBM y dos

[@bbartky]

Great video! And just subscribed. 👍 And I agree, it was the best 8-bit machine ever. As another poster and you mentioned, the Basic 7.0 was really good. Also, I liked how you could boot from disk. I was able to combine these features with the C64 mode to create a program that booted from disk, loaded a menu where I could select and run my favorite C64 games in 80-column C128 mode, and then switch to C64 mode and launch the game automatically. The key was a program I typed in from a magazine that showed how to load code into the C64’s cartridge memory in C128 mode. As to why it wasn’t more successful, my gut feeling was that CBM should have spent its resources it used on the C16 and Plus/4 on the C128 instead. They probably could have brought it to market earlier. And the other thing I thought they should have done is marketed it to the educators. It had more bang for buck than anything back then. And as someone who has worked in Edu Tech schools I can tell you that schools really love that.

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks and welcome! Yea, if Commodore had done a few things differently (VIC-II that could run at 2Mhz?) the 128 could have been so much more. Sounds like you were able to customize yours nicely! I never thought about that but it makes sense I guess if you stick "CBM80" into $8004 and a JMP at $8000 you could run any code you wanted when switching to C64 mode. That sounds like a fun experiment, I think I may try that right now with the 128's built in ML monitor!

[@kethdredd]

I remember saving up my lawn mowing money to buy a 128 and the 1571. $600 IIRC in the summer of 1985. It was going to be amazing! 128K of RAM! Double the processing speed! CP/M, whatever the hell that was! A few months later my Dad bought an Amiga 1000 for Christmas. The 128 was never touched again, it felt like a dinosaur from another era compared to the Amiga.

[@retrobitstv]

Ouch! Well at last you got an Amiga to play with :) I started working on the local farm at age 11 to afford my Commodore habit, but my folks kept using an Apple //c right on up till the 486 era and I missed the Amiga days altogether.

[@f1lupo]

@@retrobitstvouch Apple II’s we’re crap compared to the C64 never mind the Amiga! man the poor kid that had an Apple IIe in our neighbourhood was always over the kids houses that owned Amiga’s😂

[@someguyoninternet802]

that background music so awesome tho

[@TheDooominator420]

I still have my orginal flat 128 with matching serial number on the box, a 128 dcr, 128cr, and daily use 128. Thats just my 128s lol

[@mr.painkiller4908]

I owned a c128d in those days. But the only command I remember, is "GO 64" ;-)

[@alfredoavila2729]

I have the C=128. This is the only computer that correctly implements the concept of "emulation". The C=128 has the C=64 inside and if you are in C=64 mode there is no way to realize if your hardware is a C=64 or a C=128.

[@paulpentz4485]

C128 is still one of my favorite computers. I spent a lot of time on that thing! Sadly, I never tried GEOS 128. I wish I had now.

[@miselzivanovic2181]

I received my C128 in 1987 as a gift. Had no idea what it was because I wasn't so into computers before. Can recall SPRDEF, the sprite editor and Go64 (where I thought something went wrong since SPRDEF wasn't working anymore) It came with German instructions and back then I knew only croation language). Can't remember where my C128 ended up, but I got myself 2 another few years ago. Unfortunately, never used, still in the box...

[@weepingscorpion8739]

The 128 definitely doesn't get enough love. We had a 128 paired with a 1084 and the only minus with that machine was that it only had a 1541-II (which I still love dearly) and not a 1571 or 1581 disk drive. But I think that retro enthusiasts are beginning to see the potential. While it'll probably always be all but an afterthought because the 64 versions will come first, games that do take advantage of the expanded features really benefit from this. A title from back then would have been Ultima V but a modern title with both 64 and 128 versions is Attack of the PETSCII Robots, its 128 version even uses both monitors at the same time. So maybe there's hope in the future. Also, I noticed you only mentioned the 1571 and 1581 disk drives as having burst mode, well there was also the short lived 1570 disk drive which like the 1571 has burst mode but is single sided like the 1541. It's a rare beast but I was lucky enough to score one for not that much money recently. Great video.

[@jaybrown6350]

I loved and miss my C-128. I sooooo badly wanted a C-128D. I also used Epyx Fast Load instead of JiffyDOS.

[@KlingonCaptain]

My family was pretty poor when I was growing up and as a result we didn't get our first computer until I was 10 years old in 1993, which was a used Commodore 64. We did wind up getting a generic PC a few years later, but unlike the C64 my siblings weren't allowed to touch it. As a family we used the PC to visit the Star Trek BBC, but my dad was the one using the keyboard and was the extent of our interaction with it. I never even knew that the 128 existed until I was an adult.

[@milow-cl9kt]

Watching Episode 2 in 2023! Have you seen the new C-128 core for the MiSTer? I managed to play with it a little and pretty impressed thus far, I'm shocked no one on KZbin has done a comprehensive on it.

[@retrobitstv]

I read that it just left beta recently. I have tried it, but only briefly. At that time, it wasn't able to load GEOS128 or the RFOVDC demo but I haven't tried it since it went public. I'll have to update and give it another look! Also, welcome to the channel and thank you for your support! You have the dubious honor of being the very first official KZbin channel member!

[@milow-cl9kt]

@@retrobitstv Very much an honor! You've consistently put out quality content and always look forward to each release.

[@nandotz]

I still have my commodore C64c and the Atari 800Xl as souvenirs from that 8-bit era, ahh also use the GEOS system for homework, Greetings.

[@delscoville]

128D has 3 CPUs. But we usually don't count the built-in 1571's 6502.

[@retrobitstv]

True enough!

[@AdamsOlympia]

I wish I knew about the C128 when I was a kid. Sure would have beat the Laser 128 (Apple 2 clone) that I got at the same time, for roughly the same price.

[@AmrToukhy]

Thank you for this Yeah I had the C128

[@jjinnyc75]

I always wanted a C128 since I owned a C64 but we had moved on to PC compatibles by then. Loved GEOS

[@mortimore4030]

The Atari 130XE is my favourite 8-bit computer. Good video though.

[@infinitecanadian]

While I don't think it to be better, I do still like my Atari 8-Bit.

[@johansenphotography]

Good video! Clean and well produced. Just subscribed! =]

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks for the feedback and support!

[@cbmeeks]

I love the C128. But I admit I cringed when I saw that Commodore commercial drill into the side of that IIc.

[@choppergirl]

Lack of a built in auto boot DOS, lack of a hard drive, and slow processor speed is what killed the Commodore line. Those three things killed it. The PC AT and Mac got them right and thereafter it became an infinite race of CPU speed increases, hard drive size increases, and OS upgrades.

[@dbauernf]

I owned a C64 and a few of my friends got the C128. Absolutely every one of them booted it in C64 mode to play games and used NONE of thee stuff mentioned in this video. I wasn't aware of ANY of it either! :)

[@Boosted0ne]

The C128 had guts but had no support. I bought one with my paper route money to upgrade from a C64 and most of what I did was GO64 to play C64 games. Probably one of the biggest disappointments of any computer I owned. I sold that C128 after a year and bought an Amiga 500 and never looked back.

[@choppergirl]

The 128 was the kind of the 8bits.. unfortunatly, by that time a Macintosh Plus with 1gb /20mbhdor IBM XT AT at 12mgz 10mghd smoked it into the ground. And then in the periphery there was the freak outlier Amiga. I have seveal 128s I have never fired up, along with C64s and VIcs anad PET I ahven't touched sing the 1990's. I so want to wire the 128 back for that retro blast, but I don't have the desk space nor the time no inclination to go down back that dead end path. Still, it haunts me... all those years hacking inside a C64. I quickly dumped ship from Geos on a 64 with joystick for pointer which was hopeless obsolete.. to a Mac SE at 8 and the 30mghz and then to a 586 tower at 120mghz. Things moved fast back then and you had to pivot, then pivot, then pivot again and again if you wanted to stay relevant. What you bought this year was hopelessly outdated the next.

[@DS-pk4eh]

It arrived at least one year too late. Especially the C128D version. I never understood why Commodore never went to double the performance of the VIC chip from C64, make an iteration rather than using a chip that was more oriented for text-based software (VDC). C128 D had great design and functionality. I have C128D, would love to buy a GEOS ROM chip.

[@c128stuff]

Hmm.. the geos chip isn't that usefull really... a 1581 boots GEOS128 about as fast. This is because the GEOS boot rom has to copy stuff to ram (and doesn't do that very efficiently) and still needs to read stuff from disk, and is rather picky about your configuration. Get an Ultimate II+ and try the C128 device manager crt for it.. it can ramboot GEOS128 from a preloaded REU, this is much much faster than the GEOS rom, and keeps being fast because your desktop and related files can be on a ram disk which also gets preloaded (from usb storage). Or you could also do this with a ramlink, but try finding one of those for less than a kidney...

[@DS-pk4eh]

@@c128stuff So I have these kidneys on the side . . . 😜

[@c128stuff]

@@DS-pk4eh btw, there is a video on my channel showing GEOS128 booting from REU (and starting a program). That is on a stock C128DCR with Ultimate II+, no supercpu or such 'trickery'.

[@DS-pk4eh]

@@c128stuff Now you have a channel? Who are you people?

[@c128stuff]

@@DS-pk4eh I'm just one of the many people still writing C64 and especially C128 code... 🙂 There is still quite an active demo scene especially on the 64, and still new games getting released. While it isn't getting as many releases as the C64, the last half decade probably saw more c128 game releases than the first 2 decades the machine existed. Especially the C128 native version of the Ozmoo zcode interpreter added quite a bit (as essentially all zcode based games now work, and take advantage of the extra ram, 80 colimn mode etc).

[@BusWithUs.]

Enjoyed that! Owned a 128 myself when they were released. Which demo was the music from?

[@retrobitstv]

Glad to hear it! The music is from Jeremy Blake (Red Means Recording) here on KZbin.

[@347573]

His C64 compatibility was its power (due to the enormous software library available at launch time) but also its limitation, since many (almost all developers) didn't use the powerful features it provided!

[@BillAnt]

Indeed, as power as the C128 was, it was too little too late at the end of the 8-bit era, but the great memories remain. ;)

[@Tweaker420666]

That loaded way faster than should have been legal with GEOS on real hardware

[@MusicFanatical1]

Looks impressive. A comparison with Amstrad's CPC 6128 would be interesting, they seem similiar.

[@xfi321]

I still have my 128. have not used it for over 30 years though. Maybe I should test if it still works :) . What is the most common issues after sitting so long. Also have a Sega Megadrive (japanese version.) But i it wont start. And 2 NES. and a Amiga 500.

[@retrobitstv]

Well, the C128 power supplies are not known to fail like the 64's did, so you should be okay there. Mostly it's just chips failing due to age, even when they aren't powered up they still degrade over time due to humidity, heat, etc. Fire up it and see, hopefully it'll just work!

[@HelloKittyFanMan.]

It's amazing that Super Mario Bros was ported so well to the C64 just last year (as I write this, 2019)! Guess what: You can say it even more easily: "TWENTY-nineteen" (fewer syllables). Try it today!

[@user-yr1uq1qe6y]

I must be one of the few that did NOT buy the c128 for the c64 compatibility. I did more programming and electronics projects and had no commercial c64 software before upgrading. The CPM mode was less than useless and the 1571 speed crippled GEOS. But it took me through junior year of college :)

[@BoschlooStudios-bx7rg]

Would it be wrong for me to start by buying a regular C64 so I can wait for the right-priced C128 later?

[@retrobitstv]

I started with a 64 back in the day as well. In modern times, 99% of what you'll be doing with a Commodore 8-bit will be on a 64 anyway because that's where all the hardware and software development are happening these days. Go for it!

[@tjlazer71]

2:20 snap! There go the little clips on each side of the top case!

[@retrobitstv]

I'm pretty sure they were long gone before I picked up the machine!

[@arturpoldan8816]

Great video

[@Lofote]

10:07 "between vertical blank", not "between raster lines" ;)

[@retrobitstv]

This was something I wasn't totally clear on, whether the coders were doing some clever technique to disable the VIC-II during the H Blank, or if it was just during the VBI. In the SMB port, the release notes stated "2 MHz in the border" which wasn't clear to me!

[@tetsujin_144]

OK OK this is hilarious... First off, I used the C128 for several years as a kid. Was way into it back then but looking back I feel like it was just this train wreck of a machine that was mostly good for its C64 mode. I tend to look back and wish I'd got an Amiga instead. So I see this video title and I'm like... really? OK, make your case... Then you're all like "Hello I'm Matt Demicco" and I'm like oh that's funny I used to know a Matt Demicco - and then like hey, that's him! Ha, what are the odds? (It's George BTW) Haven't seen you in ages, man!

[@tetsujin_144]

6:21 "Sir Armitage" Ha! Back from his travels across the 64th dimension...

[@retrobitstv]

Hey man, great to hear from you! ^^ This is the guy who's responsible for getting me hooked on Commodores in the first place, so everyone can blame him! Honestly, I never knew that you had a 128. Somewhere between the 64 and jumping to PCs I guess? I am obviously biased toward the 128 because it was such a great BBSing machine for the money.

[@retrobitstv]

...after defeating the Red Dragon :P

[@tetsujin_144]

@@retrobitstv Yeah, don't remember exactly when I got the C-128 though there is embarrassing home video footage of me opening a 1084S on Christmas. I would guess maybe I got it in like 88 or 89? It was my first monitor for 80 column mode and I think I was already looking to maybe using it with an Amiga in the future - but that never happened. I used the system right up through 1993 when I got my first PC, (seeing "Space Quest IV" instantly convinced me I needed a PC) WYSIWYGing all my school papers to a dot matrix printer and stuff. I guess 80 column mode actually was a pretty nice feature for the C-128, for BBSing as you said, text-mode word processing, and GEOS. I always still think of it as a machine full of missteps though. Like CP/M mode, or the clunky communication with the VDU, or the 40 column mode being incompatible with fast mode - and I can't help but feel that by tapping into that big library of C64 software it ultimately got relegated to being just "a better C64" much like the IIgs (glorious as it was at its best) mostly got relegated to being a "better Apple II". I had a non-working C-128D that I picked up at the flea market one year. In retrospect I wish I'd taken the time to try to fix it. Worst case scenario is I would have wrecked my good 128 trying to fix the 128D (which... would have been pretty bad, actually) - but best-case scenario is I would have had a fully-working C-128D, which I would have absolutely loved at the time. But instead I think I just sold it again at another flea market. I'm trying to fix a Mac Classic at present - lost about a dozen traces near the CPU due to battery leakage. Not fun, but hoping I'll get it working and then it'll be really a new frontier for me. Got myself a USB floppy drive to exchange data with it and... yeah wow it holds practically nothing and is slow as fuck. XD Was looking into Kryoflux and such until I realized the Classic actually has a HD drive, so any PC-standard (MFM) HD floppy drive can exchange data with it.

[@retrobitstv]

Hah, nice. I got my 1084S used from Ed. M and my 128 used from... I don't remember. But it was a bit step up running CNet-128 in 80col vs the 64 BBS software available. I recently picked up an SX-64 after all these years. Man, did I lust after the one you guys had back in the day, let me tell you. Yea even Bill Herd was pretty clear that the 128 was only meant as a stopgap to fill the product line for a year or so and that the VDC chip was a hot mess. I have a nice 128D now, but I barely use it since the internal drive gets in the way more than anything in this age of modern storage solutions. I know absolutely nothing about classic Macs, but I've been using modern ones for about 10 years now at work. Good luck with the repairs. I was super lucky the battery leak on the Amiga didn't actually damage any traces and the IIgs didn't leak at all!

[@pauldeane8369]

Great video!

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@AlexEvans1]

I have a C128, but I am inclined to think that the CoCo 3 is a better machine. m6809 and 0.89/1.78 MHz 128k RAM expandable to 512k (after market upgrades to 2M). When using OS-9 it is possible to take full advantage of the memory and you can have real multitasking (even multiuser if you have a terminal).

[@retrobitstv]

I have never seen or used a CoCo 3 but I'd like to find one to play around with. Prices on eBay for them are pretty steep compared to the 2 I recently picked up :(

[@AlexEvans1]

@@retrobitstv They are certainly much more expensive that the CoCo2 these days. If you ever get one, you should also invest in a CoCoSDC (unless you already have one for your CoCo2)

[@hDansRandomCrud]

I sold my c64 for similar reasons. I now regret that choice.

[@MichiMilchmelker]

It would be mega to flash the cpm chip with msdos to run some very old msdos games.

[@retrobitstv]

Unfortunately DOS games are compiled for x86 and the 128 is using a Z80 CPU for CP/M mode so even if it could be made to boot a special version of MSDOS, existing software would still not be compatible.

[@CarolinaDiggers]

You should load ULTIMA 5 up on a Commodore 128 in C64 mode and see how it looks. Then reset and load the same ULTIMA 5 game in 128 mode and see what happens.

[@retrobitstv]

You know, I never played Ultimate games back in the day. I was always into fast paced action stuff as a kid. I'll have to try it out now, thanks!

[@n00blamer]

Yeah, I played Ultima V "through" on 128.. also less disk swapping thanks to the extra ram. The game was fairly easy, but knowing to bring the box from British castle was pure evil.. I just happened to have it by pure luck..

[@dougjohnson4266]

Would be cool if an FPGA version of the 128D would be produced. (Like the U64E for the C64.)

[@lesterjeffries2467]

I am working setting up my 128D again, I have not use it since 1998. Right now I having two problems 1) Getting c64 games to run on the 128D 2)Have the 128D recognize all the drives, 2 floppy drive and 1 mini drive. I know they all work together before, I also know the 128D is drive =8, not sure how to the other drives to be 9-11. When I first this up it was easy. Looking for help.

[@retrobitstv]

For 1) make sure you're in 64 mode. Type go64 in 128 basic, or hold the commodore key when you turn on the power. For 2) check the DIP switches on the back of the external drives (assuming you have a 1541-II, 1571, or 1581), that's how you set them to be 9 - 11.

[@lesterjeffries2467]

I forgot the 1571 & 1581 have switch on the back to set drive numbers.,thanks

[@CaptainDangeax]

I didn't band the C128 train, I switched from C64 to Amiga 500 After evaluating the ST as crap particularly the awfull ay8910 sound

[@ronklein6962]

Nice video. Would you mind telling us where you sourced the heat sinks from? Thanks!

[@retrobitstv]

Thanks! I got them from retrofixes.com but it doesn't appear they are stocking any at the moment.

[@stevewalker2891]

Other than C64 game compatibility... was there any advantage to having this over the Amiga which was released at the same time?

[@retrobitstv]

Great question! Of course the Amiga was a superior machine in every regard, but I would hazard that the 128's selling points were that it cost 1/4 of what a new Amiga 1000 would have in 1985, was compatible with one's existing VIC-20 and 64 peripherals, and, as you mentioned, had access to a massive library of existing software.

[@kodiak64]

The C128 was a wasted opportunity. It should have had: * At least another 16 colors in a backwards compatible VIC-II "ultra"; * The said enhanced VIC-II chip should have worked at 2MHz (or whatever the higher speed of the enhanced CPU would have been); * 16 sprites; * 6 channels on a backwards compatible "super SID"; * CPU able to run in parallel with a secondary 6502-based CPU for genuine double threading; * At least one extra register with concomitant instruction set, e.g., a "Z-register" and the ability to do LDX absolute_address, Y; * An easy to implement hardware-based VSP scroll equivalent.

[@timlocke3159]

If you listen to Bil Herd's talks, he explains why it wasn't done "right". Commodore was focused on the Amiga and he didn't have the resources to get new chips made. He had to fight hard to get the C128 out the door at all. In the end, it sold 4.5 million units, compared to the C64's 13 million units. Not bad for what many people call a "failure". The Apple II models only sold 1 million more in its lifetime.

[@timlocke3159]

I think the C128 should have been a C64 (no other modes) with a second 64K of RAM, a second SID for stereo audio output, a VIC-III with 80 columns and a larger palette to choose the 16 colors from. I agree with 2 MHz (with fallback to 1 MHz for compatibility with C64 games) but I don't think having two 6502s would have been feasible. If you want a second 6502, you can make use of the one in the floppy drive. I'd also extend BASIC 2 into what BASIC 7 was, as long as BASIC 2 programs would still run fine. I almost forgot, the VIC-III has to be register compatible with the VIC-II. There can be more registers, but only for the extra features. Of course, the fixed disk speed and burst mode are required.

[@dondondon786]

Would you consider uploading a demonstration of Paperback Writer running in 80 column mode? I can't get it running in emulation.

[@retrobitstv]

Unfortunately I do not have an original copy, but I'll keep a look out for one. It seems that the copy protection on this one is a pain and I didn't see any cracked versions in a cursory search. I was also unable to get it to load in emulation :(

[@twiddler71]

I think the Apple IIe platinum would be a good competitor to the 128. The both had full keyboards, 80 columns, 128k of ram and hi-res graphics modes. Although the Apple didn't have sprites or a midi chip, it did have expansion slots, and there even was an CP/M daughter card you could add to the Apple IIe. Maybe the commodore was far better at games, the Apple II had more productivity and educational software.

[@deanolium]

The expansion boards of the Apple ][ were incredible for such an early machine. It's just a pity that it was hamstrung by the Woz's video system (though that did keep the cost down at the start) and the lack of sprites.

[@commodorecave5581]

Good video. Thanx.

[@retrobitstv]

Glad you liked it!

[@jovanfilipovic]

I had C64 thick one, do Ive tested c128 from my friend. its a shame that no one still from those retro gamers are not using the fulliest of c128. She(128) is superior to c64!. Programmers should do some effort and make new games remakes like last ninja 3 for c128 , katakis, maniac mansion or amiga superfrog clone for c128 with full graphic and music. That would be something. I love to see something like that.....

[@anticat900]

I was a great machine and probably the best looking computer made (though like the MZ80a nearly as much). Its a pity the techniques to improve its speed were not around in its time, it could have had more of its own games. I loved using it, but in some ways it was a bit of a Frankenstein machine with so many modes trying to please everyone. A Vic 3 chip and something all new to sit below the Amiga, like a c65 would have been a better outcome, if they could have created it in time.

[@mjp29]

Raise your hand if you never used one in 128 mode - like me, most used it as a c64.