Return to M43?! Panasonic 8 -18 mm f/2.8-4 Lens Review by Darren Miles

[@ppalumbo_ca]

I also had a hard time deciding between the Olympus 7-14 and the Panasonic 8-18. One mm on the wide end is definitely bigger than it sounds. The constant f2.8 aperature is what sold me on the Oly. With focus stacking, I get great low light indoor shots . I purchased it for indoor shots of chatherals, churhes, abbeys and castles. I ended up using it for so much more.

[@wparo]

M4-3rd convert here. Nothing beats a 300mm lens (600mm 35-Equivalent) that fits in your pocket

[@smkunder1]

Thanks, I have really missed your M43 stuff.

[@gcprost]

I bought one. I’m very satisfied.

[@bj0ernaa]

I got this lens 3 months ago, and love it. For more run and run shooting and filming, its perfect when paired with the 12-35mm f2.8..

[@gamingwithcorp3889]

Should I get this lens rather than the 7-17mm?

[@wcbibb]

I bought the 8-18mm and use it with the G9. It is a good idea to double check the autofocus. I shoot stills so you can take several shots. Some of the photos really amazed me. You can screw on a variable polarizing filter into the threads. Good review, by the way. I will probably buy a full-frame system in the future but the portability of the micro 4/3rds is hard to beat. I get the 8-18mm; 14-140mm; and the PL100-400mm into a small backpack-style bag. That gives me the equivalent of 16-800mm. I don't need stabilization in the wide-angle. With the 2.0 firmware and reduced prices of camera bodies and lens, there is a role for micro 4/3rds. I enjoyed APS-C crop cameras, too.

[@swashfrogsailor]

Thanks for the rundown. I’m a Realtor® who opts to perform my own real estate photography, but I’m also planning a thru-hike of the PCT, so weight is a concern. Turns out the 8-18mm is nearly half a pound lighter than the 7-14mm. Particularly given that I’m using a tiny DC-GF10 camera whilst hiking, the comparatively massive 7-14mm kicks it out of consideration despite its other fine qualities.

[@jflowonline]

Tired of going back and forth between oly and this 8-18. Im going to be doing luxury real estate videos using gh5. More walk through interview (agent and interviewer) style videos with broll shots. What would you pick? Extra width (7) and f2.8 all the way through OR step-less aperture and easy filter screw? Thanks for the help!

[@bigdhav]

Currently, I use a tokina 11-16mm Nikon F mount with a focal length reducer. The results are stunning from an already superb lens. Just no autofocus. But I can keep my 77mm filters.

[@JeevesTCW]

Hi Darren. Can you tell any practical diff in IQ between this and the Leica 12mm f1.4 or is the benefit simply in the maximum aperture for the latter?

[@MrCochise71]

That lens is sweet. Panasonic is pretty underated!

[@gsansoucie]

I’m interested in the lens distortion corrections for the 7mm Olympus on a Panny body. It looks like you do all your work in post, which works for you. I’d prefer SOOC where possible, though I am not a pro. This was a good review. Also, there is a dearth of KZbin videos using the word dearth. Bonus points.

[@kent2000100]

Good review and very informative video. I’m very much a amateur (probably more novas level to be honest), but I added this lens to my kit about 7 mouths ago, where it sat at the bottom of my bag. I recently rediscovered this lens and used it over the 4th and captured some very nice fireworks and astrophotography. I was very pleased with the results. Thanks for video! Best wishes from “ sunny Colorado.”

[@JeevesTCW]

Keep coming back to watch this great review Darren, some dreamy shots (esp the statue/pool scene). Love the pana leica f2.8-4 range & I have the 12-60. For Ultra wide I rely on my smaller, cheaper & slower Oly 9-18 which is be fair is excellent at the 9mm end, but across the frame & zoom range the 9-18 cannot match this wonderful 8-18 which I would love to own but cannot justify it sadly. All the best, hope you and your family keep safe, Rich.

[@cinemenico]

Ah, good to see you throwing MFT some love still. Tbh, when Panasonic announced the new Leica f/2.8-4 zoom series (there's also a 12-60 and 50-200mm) and the first reviews came out, I wasn't a fan of what I was seeing. There was non of that premium character we've come to know from say their legendary 42.5mm f/1.2. But then again I guess different lenses built for a different purpose. I sorta refused to buy a lens that's more than a thousand bucks, but given it's not a prime but a zoom, covering multiple focal lengths/lenses, back a few years ago I went and bought the Olympus 7-14mm f/2.8 PRO the moment it got out. One thing to really mention there... the Olympus hasn't got a filter thread! (But there are a couple of 3D print plans/3rd party offerings out there) The optical quality is amazing though and it's rectilinear by design, much like the wide angle Laowa 7.5mm f/2 MFT, meaning: straight lines! Great for impressive landscape photography and of course... real-estate assignments.

[@mikemoir2603]

Have missed your frequent 4/3 reviews,Darren. Am still a fan of Oly gear & use it a lot Even the old original 4/3 glass along with some Super High Grade lenses like the 7-14 F 4.0 & the 14-35mm F2.0. The old E-500's & others in the series still produce very well. Thoughtful of you to still spend the time for a new Oly lens review what with your Sony & real estate success. See why you'd opt for the 7-14 over the 8-18. The old 8mm fish-eye is super too.

[@artistjoh]

8-18 or Oly 7-14mm f2.8? For me the decision comes down to filters. The Panny 8-18 has a 67mm filter thread and no vignetting at the wide end with filters. To get an ND on the Olympus at 7mm without vignetting requires a large and expensive 150mm filter adapter and 150mm filters from Lee/Nisi/Haida etc, while the Panny 8-18 takes a relatively cheap 67mm variable ND or polariser. That is a huge difference in usability and costs.

[@GeekyStuff]

Hi Darren - This or the Olympus 7-14 Pro Lens?

[@DarrenMiles]

Yes! Both are excellent! If I HAD to choose, the Oly 7-14.

[@GeekyStuff]

@@DarrenMiles Nice one, thanks! Looking at getting into real estate videography on my GH5 and it’s a toss up between these two! 👍

[@DarrenMiles]

@@GeekyStuff the extra mm on the wide end does make a difference in real estate

[@GeekyStuff]

@@DarrenMiles Cheers mate :)

[@ChannelWright]

I shoot video on the GH5 - and I have to agree that every millimeter I can get on the wide end is precious indeed. This lens looks good, but I’ll probably go for one of the 7-14mm lenses.

[@A1Bokeh]

How does this compare to lenses from other systems ?

[@andersistbesser]

those real estate pictures look amazing

Bought the olympus omd 5ii because of your review. No regrets.

[@simianinc]

Hi Darren if you want something wider go for the new Panasonic Leica 10-25 f1.7

[@simianinc]

Duh. That ain’t wider

[@DarrenMiles]

I was going to say it, but looks like you figured it out :-) . However, there is some application for 20mm equivalent in real estate photography...

[@Noealz]

Panasonic gets things right - this is one of em. Pretty good lens

[@ronnbot]

This lens is a very good, general purpose ultra wide to wide lens zoom. For real state (and landscapes), the Panasonic 7-14 makes more sense - wider and max f/4 only doesn't matter, and cheaper to boot.

[@ronnbot]

@Dziordan1 You have 4 options: Oly 7-14mm/2.8, Pany 7-14mm/4, Pany 8-18mm/2.8-4 (I'm looking to buy) and Oly 9-18mm/4-5.6 (I currently have). If you think you’ll need that 7mm (which is noticeably wider than 8mm), then you have to go with either of the 7-14mm lenses. For landscape, you don’t need a large aperture and if you can get away without weather sealing, then go for the Pany 7-14mm/4, as it is much cheaper and smaller than the Oly. That said, the Pany 8-18mm would be the best compromise - 8mm is pretty wide already, can use filters, is weather sealed, not too big/expensive, and bright (at the wide end).

[@rwpgng]

Thanks for sharing your opinions, I still need a wide angle, my Nikon 14-24 is too heavy for travel photography. I love M 4/3 for the portability and size. Great review.

[@zackchoy1969]

I would have got this lens if it arrive earlier than the Olympus 7-14mm

[@johnnymossville]

I have the Olympus 7-14 and a Cokin filter holder setup for it. It's kind of a pain, but it's a wonderful lens. This lens wasn't around when I bought that.

[@Makta972]

your lens is better than that panasonic lens.

[@mgr5550]

Hi, is this lens perfectly rectilinear for video work just like the 7-14mm panny lens is ? Also does the f2.8 give an advantage for brighter shots in slightly low light interior shoots ?

[@Larspj3]

i myself use both Nikon D810 plus Olympus omd cameras and for real estate shots, i struggle with the ISO performance on M4/3. but good to see you making it work well.

[@dieseldavey]

Biggest mistake I made was getting rid of my mft system.

[@JJ-vp3bd]

why

[@dieseldavey]

R J Down to size and portability. The body is almost same but it’s the size of lenses. That was the reason I left Nikon to go to Olympus. Then I got caught up on the Sony band wagon and now it doesn’t get used like my Nikon gear.

[@JJ-vp3bd]

@@dieseldavey if i have a gx85 whats a good upgrade from that? is the g9 only really good cause of video?

[@forgewire]

Don’t tell it to Tony.🤫

[@JJ-vp3bd]

@@dieseldavey are you only with Panasonic now

[@arnaudr6541]

Hi. I know you tried both 8-18 Pana and 7-14 Olympus. Wich one do you recommand ? It's for real estate too. In panoramic photography. I don't care about use filter or not, just care of the lens flar sensibility front to the sun or lights with the Olympus. So I'll go for the 8-18 for the moment. But maybe I'm wrong (about sharpness, etc…). With a GH5. Thanks a lot.

[@DarrenMiles]

If I HAD to choose, I’d get the Olympus. Though both are really excellent.

[@jettysplash]

Hi Darren. Thank you for your time and video about Real Estate photography! I have the Lumix G9 with its new software upgrade and I am wondering if the Olympus 7-14 will work as well as the native Panasonic 8-18mm and 10-25mm, although I've only heard great things about Olympus lenses. I am new at professional grade photography equipment and do nature and wildlife photography. I'm looking to add a landscape lens to my bag and wondering what Real Estate photography is all about at the same time. Also, what type of lighting do you use for your beautiful real estate photography examples? I imagine you do more than just turn on the lights in the house. Thank you Darren.

[@andersistbesser]

You cant get anything better than the olympus pro lenses, i love them.

[@JustinCaseResearch]

Hello Mr Miles. I loved your video. You're indeed a true professional. My question is, im searching for a lens to do solely video. I have been leaning towards this lens based solely on users doing the same. I also was looking at the panasonic 13-35 with a the constat 2.8 aperature.I would primarily be shooting lets say food preparation videas at a decent eneough focal point but not macro. What is your recomendation, please? Thanks.

[@zeep7500]

It seems the 10-25mm f1.7 is one of the killer successor of this nice lens. What is your recommendation? :p

[@cinemenico]

Like he said, you'd be missing out on the wide and, warranting another lens in addition. It's no successor to anything. It's one of a kind. If you want to compare it... I guess the closest comparison would be a Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 on a focal reducer (whether Metabones/Viltrox/Zhongyi/..). When they announced they were working on the fullframe series and this MFT lens... the most I was excited for was this lens! Yet... 1799 USD is right where I needed it to be for me to consider... yet in Europe it retails for 1999 EUR (2245 USD on conversion)... so that's a bummer... But yeah, it is an absolute unique and super interesting and practical lens. Pretty much a bunch of bright primes rolled up into one. Absolute killer. If you can shed the money!

[@stevemulcahy5014]

Shiznuts I crunched the numbers and the 10-25 is about the same price as all the primes you can get in that range. So if you were planning on splurging for all of those primes and don’t mind the weight of that one zoom, it’d be a good deal.

[@bdfrankmeow]

One of the main argument for such a lens is that it replaces several primes . It might be thrue 'in the bag' but it is still big and heavy on the body . I guess it makes more sense if you do a lot of video or switch constantly from wide to normal . For someone like me , the extra reach to 8mm on the wide side and the smaller size of the lens still make me go more to the 8-18mm .

[@dewantaraville]

would buy them both

[@ruff1draft]

Darren what did you film this video on. I like the look.

[@zardosspinosa6944]

Darren, I hope you will answer my question. You talked about in body lens correction. Can I expect the same with Olympus body? All your vertical lines were completely straight, is this in body or post process? Thanks

[@DarrenMiles]

I’m pretty sure there is in body correction for distortion between Panasonic and Olympus, I’m not so sure about chromatic aberration or other lens issues.

[@Kris-nf3fu]

Maybe I missed it, but how does it do in low light?

[@marc6652]

M4/3 is unfairly decried. I changed my unreliable and not ergonomic Sony A7RIII for a Panasonic G9 ; and I discovered how great M4/3 is. The G9 is certainly the most complete body I ever owned in 35 years of photographie. And some lenses like the 12-40 or the 75 Olympus are really impressive. I've never regretted neither my A7RIII nor my Leica M240. Maybe some lenses, like the summilux 50 or the 135 Batis. But they don't play in the same category.

[@DarrenMiles]

Marc you’re the second person who’s raved to me about the g9 / I’ll have to take a look!

[@waynecake5867]

@@DarrenMiles You should also check Lumix S1 which is a bigger G9.

[@TITAOSTEIN]

Darren Miles take a Look on the G9 with the new FW + PanaLeica 10-25 f1.7!! It is simply the Best Hybrid System combo out there!

[@TheGregWallace]

Hello- If you had a Panasonic G9 and money was not an issue, which ultra wide lens would you buy....the Panasonic 8-18mm f/2.8-4 or the Olympus 7-14 2.8 pro and why? Thank you for your time.

[@DarrenMiles]

Excellent question! Flip a coin, I could live with either, but if I HAD to choose, I’d get the Olympus- slightly wider when needed, constant f/2.8 aperture throughout the zoom range. Offers more flexibility for only slightly more money. It’s the slightly better value imho...

[@TheGregWallace]

Hello. One other question....the Hybrid shooter on youtube said that the DFD would not work with the Panasonic camera. can you explain what he is talking about and is this something I would even need to worry about? Thank you for your time.

[@NetvoTV]

Off topic, what kind of people usually buy that kind of house? How much is it? Want to know how far I am to able to afford one

[@michaels3003]

Several million dollars.

[@NoomSuwinit]

Which camera and lens you shooting this clip? like 2:25 or 2:38

[@DarrenMiles]

A7r3 and 35mm f/1.4

[@TITAOSTEIN]

Very good Review! You should try/test the New 10-25mm f1.7.

[@TITAOSTEIN]

Darren you need to take a look on the G9 also. G9 + 10-25 f1.7!!!

[@bdssoaz]

Nice review Darren, Thank you!

[@phijayman]

I like your review style and I hope you will review the Lumix S1H too, as soon as it is available!

[@philipgowdy]

Hi Darren `well thanks to you I have been an Olympus user for a few years now and have taken amazing images with this m/43 format. Recently I have been looking at the Sony A9 but out of all the reviews out there one major thing worries me and that is the few that mention Sensor marks and dust...I have taken my 4/3 cameras to the desert and never had any real problem with this..would you tell us your feelings on Sensor marks and the Sony full frame sensors especially for Video, this must be a real bug bear.

[@DarrenMiles]

The exposed sensor on the sony’s is definitely an issue, there’s no question about it. I bring a blower with me everywhere :-). Canon actually had a very ingenious idea, there’s a door that actually covers the sensor when the camera is off

[@philipgowdy]

@@DarrenMiles So if you had to choose Canon or Sony for your Video/Stills Pro work?

[@nagual2335]

Not sure if you mentioned whether you used the GH5 here or other model? For these kind of reviews I really wish you could have uploaded them in 4K so we can really examine the sharpness and details. on my iMac 5K, HD video looks kind of mushy and difficult to judge. however great review and thank you!

[@koolkutz7]

Good review Darren, in rainy Florida! This does look a decent lens for your type of work on the MFT system. My main concern would be how the AF 'misses' sometimes. I have had this issue on my Panasonic/Olympus systems previously so I actually got rid of it all & went back to my Nikon DSLR for wildlife photography/filming. The phase detection is so much quicker and nails most shots more accurately. Depends on what your needs are of course.

[@RJPhotographics]

Olympus latest phase detect bodies are finally properly excellent for AF-C.

[@KallusGarnet]

I am glad Dewie grew up to be a successful real estate photographer.

[@justinmccoy]

I'm spoiled, I did my first real estate gig with this lens.

[@JoshuaBellinghamPhotography]

Just wait until you try the Lumix 10-25mm f1.7...you'll be blown away!

[@JoshuaBellinghamPhotography]

Great review! Always a fan of your videos!

[@AllenMaestas]

I agree the Olympus 7-14 is a superior lens for architecture, but for landscape I just can't see having to dole out $500-600 for an adapter and polarizing filter, plus the size of those things nullifies the small aspect of a micro 4/3 camera. That $1200 Olympus goes up to $1800 just because it won't accept a threaded filter. That's a deal breaker for me as far as the Olympus goes. I'd rather have slightly less field of view and be able to use screw on filters.

[@stevevansak7324]

Even in mirror less it’s possible to get a bad copy of a lens, hence those focus issues. Nonetheless, it was great to see your RE work again and those spectacular Florida homes. The images look great as always. Don’t forget live composite for light painting on those Oly bodies!!

[@antoineveling2650]

I thought my mouse had gone crazy but it was that water dripping in the background at the start of the video...

[@trinimedia19]

Should have used the G9

[@MukilteoSailor]

Great video Darren. I have the Olympus 7-14mm lens as this lens was taking it sweet time coming to market. A big plus the Panasonic lens had going for it was that you could screw a filter directly on it as opposed to needing an adapter like the Olympus did.

[@BrendanMacWade]

M43. I'm stickin'

[@KyleTyndall]

What is the song at 12 seconds?

[@DarrenMiles]

At 12 seconds? Just silence... do you mean during the intro?

[@KyleTyndall]

@@DarrenMiles It is the song after the countdown in the beginning. Has a really cool beat to it. Didn't know if I could license it from one of the sites I use.

[@KyleTyndall]

@@DarrenMiles Wait. OMG. Im such a dummy. I guess when the last video finished and it auto played the next one, this was the video. Sorry friend. lol

[@stehlealexander]

And now back on m4/3 ???!??

[@diatomsaus]

Those are some nice houses I would never afford.

[@brianpalmer6385]

Without further adieu let's get right to it.. then another minute of adieu.

[@intersonic]

New subscriber from M43 user :)

[@GetOnWithItGaming]

Dude your looking really well lost a shit load of weight well done also great video

[@A1Bokeh]

Hmm I have been looking at this lens to get into real estate photography. There isn’t much out there on this lens so perfect timing my guy

[@mediamannaman]

Thanks for reviewing a MFT lens.

[@adamaj74]

I was recently in the market for a dedicated video camera. After much research I pulled the trigger on the Fujifilm X-T3. Out of everything I watched and read, the takeaway was that the Fuji was all around a better camera. Not only can it also shoot 4K/60fps, it can do it at as higher bit rate and as Log. The autofocus is the best out of anyone right now, after the recent firmware update (it has face and eye detect and lets you switch eyes). You can even use Fuji's professional cinema line of lenses. The only two knocks I hear about it is the LCD screen does't swivel (for vlogging), and no in body stabilization. As far as the screen, I use an external when I'm shooting video. And my lenses have stabilization, so no worries there. And if I'm hand holding I'll have it on a gimbal anyway. And as a camera it's excellent too. 26 MP sensor. I have a D800, a D500 and the Fuji X-T3 and I'd put the image quality at much better than the D500 and slightly worse than the D800 and really only if you're pixel peeping or make massive prints (which is saying something because the D800 is still up there at the top with big boys as far as image quality). live.staticflickr.com/1882/44323671962_fc4294657d_o.jpg I'm telling you man, I've been a Nikon guy my whole life and I find myself picking this little Fuji up more and more. I did pick up the vertical grip for the extra two batteries and size increase but I still haven't purchased any new lenses. Check out the X-T3, it's a beast!

[@lamasteve6905]

Lumix S1 is the new leader !

[@DarrenMiles]

Lama Steve that one is definitely on my list of cameras to try!

[@Aksunkuvat]

Nice shots :)

[@snippephotography1913]

10-25 is now the new standard compared with the 8-18 maybe the 8-18 is now a lot cheaper

[@parratt-world]

Thanks for this Darren. I was looking for any sign of distortion in those interiors and saw none. Has any been corrected out? If only more people would take the same care to level their cameras. Your images are a pleasure to behold. I could use this lens for some artwork reproduction, at least for catalogues. ( For larger scale and archival storage I always record on large-format film and leave hi-end scanning to a pro lab if required.) Aside from camera work, your lighting is ... well, you're an artist Darren. ♡

[@JohnInNH535]

Nice of you to finally review this lens. I shoot M43 and Real Estate commercially and this is one of the "go to lenses" since purchasing in 2017. Your review is only a couple of years late? It replaced my Lumix 7-14mm on Olympus bodies for obvious reasons with this lens. By the way, not that you'll care - I don't follow your channel anymore, since your "click-bait" video with the "Angry Idiot" (I "Unsubscribed" with that one - suspect I'm not alone either?), but curiously, this review showed up in my YT feed? When/if you get back to doing what you "did best" - maybe I'll re-subscribe.

[@DarrenMiles]

John Dunkle I appreciate your candor John. I think you’ll see the channel getting back on track with more reviews in the future moving forward. I do like the tip and trick videos, but they don’t get a lot of traction.

[@JohnInNH535]

@@DarrenMiles If it does - I would love to contribute in the comments section and re-follow you. While I shoot both Olympus and Sony commercially (RE & Landscape) - and think you have a terrific amount to contribute to the community - ESPECIALLY those trying to get a step up in their Real Estate Photography/Business. To be honest - way back when - I used to watch you for confirmation that I was "doing things right" in my Real Estate Photography - and apparently you/I were - as my business has been booming. For that, I'd urge you to "get back to your roots" - as there is a vacuum of excellent KZbin channels helping out those new to commercial Real Estate. As for loss of traction? Yes, I can understand that... The video I mentioned above was my "tipping point". Please - consider making your mark in your expertise - and focus on what you do best. I'll bet there will be a number of us who follow and recommend you going forward. My best to you - and my thanks for your reply...

[@iSirTaki]

Did you answer the question "Return to M43"?

[@zardosspinosa6944]

oh yea, my new house, do people actually own houses like that?

[@DuarteBruno]

Very good lens review. I can see how RE photography can be a profession in FL though, as it's eye dropping to see how much money was thrown away into these pretentious but ultimately questionable tasteless mansions in a country that brought us Lloyd Wright and Gehry, just to name a pair. :O

[@aaronramos6056]

"Yaaaaare yaaaare yaaaare"

[@deanisplemoni]

Next up. The Panasonic 10-25mm 1.7

[@bigdhav]

10-25 and 50-200 are a perfect travel combo.

[@jonathandearth4865]

@DarrenMiles - Do you find yourself having to denoise just about every shot with the GH5? I started real estate video with the release of the GH5, then got sick of how noisey the video was because it was taking forever to edit due to the extra processing with neat video so... I switched to Sony and never looked back. Recently I wanted to get into 4k60 on a project, bought a GH5 and the Olympus 7-14 Pro and the video is just garbage compared to my Sony cameras in terms of noise. If I am out doors in excellent light at ISO 200, there is still discernible noise in the image but its not bad enough I would feel the need to denoise. Are you dealing with the same issue with your videos?

[@DarrenMiles]

Jonathan Dearth Yes, absolutely an issue, specially in low light. I found that Neat Video does a pretty good job of denoiseing, but my results are considerably better with just about any full frame camera, but definitely better with Sony

[@TITAOSTEIN]

Maybe you should try better Lenses. Olympus f1.2 series. Or Leica f1.4. Or Nokton But of course it all depends on the type of photography or video you make. I work with 3 different formats. The important thing is to use the right tool for the type of job. M43 has Pros and Cons, as do FF and APS. There is no „better“ or „worse“ system. I wouldn't use a porsche to climb mud mountains. And I wouldn't use a Land Rover to race in Indianapolis.

[@StudioBonn]

A crew for the big files...for some postproduction? Aha....🤭

[@DarrenMiles]

Studio Bonn I have to, I photograph between four and seven houses a day especially in the high season, and if I didn’t outsourced or if I wasn’t comfortable with outsourcing I would have zero life :-)

[@StudioBonn]

@@DarrenMiles Thanks a lot for your answer. 👍

[@JorgeLopez-ub8dz]

review starts at 4:30 mark

[@SkylerKing]

Darren, I know this is off subject, but I just noticed that you link to your Instagram in the video description. I checked it out and... well, you know...

[@DarrenMiles]

Nice catch Skyler, fixed.

[@johnpeter4184]

9

[@johnpeter4184]

Yeah I came here for rah rah about Sony... Bye.

[@hanzkilian1806]

Blar Blar you talk too much get on with it.

[@DarrenMiles]

Hanz Kilian you can always change the channel :-)