Reverse Glyn Johns Method - Drum Recording

[@roelmaes4885]

The Glyn Johns method is definitely my favourite Ryan. I love it that you keep digging to get the most out of this technique. Very helpful. Awesome! Please keep it up.

[@justinmclaren4268]

Mike Stavrou’s book “mixing with your mind” begins with that right overhead position in relationship to the Tom first thing

[@bubinga_basher]

Thanks for a "real world" analysis. I'm just getting into mixing, and recording drums, so this was a big help

[@BadChizzle]

Dude Dude Dude... you're the Cooliest! Been binge watching your videos ,since I found you yesterday. Been having a blast! The one with the two Cheerleader Chicks dancing behind the drum set holding the overheads was my favorite. Ok... maybe I dreamt that one, but it was still very good! Anyway... to the meat of my message is the point that creativity is the key to everything good. You have a way of inspiring said creativity, which is also very key!! Thanks for existing in this plane!!

[@creativesoundlab]

Wow dude, thanks for such a nice compliment.

[@TomBastedo]

I like it Ryan! Very valid improvement of the Johns method and it's been there all along.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks Tom! I pry wasn't the first to figure this out.

[@thanosbikos]

+1 from me on this technique. It has improved the image of the kit a lot.

[@creativesoundlab]

Nice!

[@thesonicexperience4590]

Reversing the method is a great idea! Nice video

[@domguerrilla4864]

I'm a beginner at recording, but I'm starting to really like this method. I've had crazy phasing issues with it (I play hard, and really get the cymbals swinging). I'm going to have to play around with the side mic. My main problem is that when I raise the side mic above the ride, it becomes spaced pair, in a way, and I lose something in the fulness of the sound. XY has been giving me the best results, but that won't work every time. Thank you for these videos, I like the fact you've done this technique different ways. It gives me ideas beyond the standard way you see in every single video covering Glyn Johns.

[@RhythmNotes]

Dom Guerrilla Hey Dom, have you figured out how to avoid phasing issues with Glyn Johns?

[@IsawUupThere]

One of my favorite parts of the week is when I get to try out one of the drum mic setups from your videos. So far what I've noticed with all the special setups is that I always find something when mixing that annoys me and then I try to fix it with a dynamic EQ or a multiband or a mid/side eq because I don't know how to deal with it otherwise. Mostly it's that the cymbals sound so different in both mics and that something is always off in the balance of the toms. I'm sure this is me just not getting the setup quite right, but in the end I've never been truly unhappy with an XY, ortf or spaced pair and I feel like I have more room to work with if that makes sense... I mean like thinking of the overheads more as cymbal mics and not having to worry too much about the sound of the kit in them.

[@FASTFASTmusic]

Could you just use two mics that are not the same distance from the snare, but sounding the best and then manually phase align them?

[@domguerrilla4864]

JamesMulvale. In my experience you lose the snare that way. it goes out of phase and the two mics fight each other. I've haven't tried it with a snare mic yet (not enough inputs), but that's what I would try next. Maybe someone who knows more will chime in...

[@FASTFASTmusic]

Yeah that's why I suggested to manually align the phase (with delay or whatever)

[@jorgepeterbarton]

you can't easily manually align the phase. There is more than one source, coming from all angles. so people avoid that on drums, because as soon as one thing is in phase you have the other drums phase cancelling or getting some pretty whack stereo cymbal image! BUT you don't actually have to align to the snare, plenty of spaced pairs are well off centre. Its more about how the snare is in the middle and would only really be phase issues in mono, or sounding good when you don't have a close mic on the snare that's over-riding all that anyway.. But since so many have space pairs 1m or so apart, along the line of the kick, such as the snare is closer to one I wouldn't be too bothered, the idea of spaced pairs is they create a stereo image based on time delay not just volume.

[@JesseBroman]

Pretty cool reversal. Im pretty sure the kick leans left a little bit in this recording but not a huge amount. Thanks again I really enjoy all these technique videos.

[@Bcwilderness]

great vid ryan i found a desser on a good 402 compressor helps keep the cymbals a little in check, having great results with that

[@creativesoundlab]

That's really interesting. How do you use a desser on the overheads? Just on the side mic?

[@Bcwilderness]

built in on the cubase channel strip a good one like the waves r d 'esser is good at not robbing the transients and allows to reign in the cymbals without the toms being thinned ;0

[@Louthedrummer]

Hi! Great video! I was literally thinking the same thing where my floor Tom was sounding a bit thin; however I lowered the mic and it became FAT! I no where near had the logic which you just explained, very much appreciate bro! I have a bit of an off topic question...lol What are you using to write on when filming your explanation? I would love to use that approach for my drum lessons, it looks amazing and once again logical! Once again great vidz bro!

[@kevinreddoch5214]

I think it's all about mindset. I feel like this is a great way to think for micing any source. If we have our priorities in mind then we know where to start. At its core this technically still the same mic technique, but with a different goal in mind you're focusing on the tom sound rather than just a clean overview of the kit. 😀

[@creativesoundlab]

Yep, it's basically the same, but a different mindset.

[@jorgepeterbarton]

Do you have plans to do a video that's more in depth with a standard spaced pair overheads, and the various ways you can do that? I've seen some you touched on the idea of distance and dividing the drums but not so much the basics.

[@taopagan]

I love your thought process here! In one way, though, haven't we ended up w something pretty similar to snare, kick, and two overheads? Except that we're getting proximity effect on the floor Tom? I'm a beginner drummer and pretty new at recording and mixing. I've been trying JUST an MS set up - over the drummer's head (w the M pointing down). I'm getting a lot of kick, too much HH (a lot of the time), and weak snare. Also, I'm hearing a lot of harshness when I boost the S relative to the M. So, I may have multiple problems! Is there a way to conceptually understand all these various microphone techniques as they relate to the entire "field" of the sound of the drum kit in my room?

[@davdmasc4507]

congratulations ... beautiful sound Drums recording technique that I particularly like !!! One question: are there microphones more suitable than others for this purpose? thank you so much for the availability !!

[@sazarod]

Totally gonna try this next time -- great idea.

[@creativesoundlab]

Thanks!

[@CoryTACP]

I like it with the ribbon mics. The toms still seem to be loud or something a little strange.

[@KarolMamot]

I always frustrate when it comes to adjust the floor tom on Glynn Johns set up( I have small diaphragm mikes)I use recorderman method which gives better balance. I figured out that the way drums are tuned can change a lot. Modern tuning usually brings the resonant head up while batter head is in the note with resonant side or lower (I talk about modern rock styles). Let's go back to 70's. The way the drums were tuned then is resonant side was low, batter side tighter up. It's a game changer when resonance(sound pressure wave) goes more from bottom edge of the tom drum.

[@creativesoundlab]

I'll have to try that.

[@marcushawkinsmusic]

i'll have to try this out!

[@Ricochetmex]

Hi Ryan thanks! I hope you can help me a little bit, I'm a drummer and in january 2017 I'll record with my band, I really take care about the sound of my drumset, I tune very well everything, I like to use the evans G1 on toms and snare(hight tunning), to have a "jazzy" open sound, and a smooth low tone on my bassdrum. Anyway the problem is that a send a message to the person wich is going to record us and he told me that he will record drums with hydraulic heads and the "tones" will be fixed in the mix. What is your opinion about if different heads/drums and recording techniques affect the particular sound that a band may have? And if I have to worry about recording with that person because of that kind of preferences?

[@dcp10200]

The thing I've found that works the best for Glyn Johns overheads is using a mic with a Figure 8 Polar Pattern, more specifically a cheap Apex Ribbon mic www.amazon.com/APEX-205-Compact-Ribbon-Microphone/dp/B003PEBNHM , over the floor tom. Raising your cymbals up higher so that the edges of cymbals aren't in path with your floor tom mic also ensures that the weird cymbal rocking isn't being captured as much by the mic.

[@thanosbikos]

Sounds good! I have tried the 414 as fo8 on the top and I liked the reflections I got (I have a high ceiling, slanted in 3 different angles). Now I'm waiting for a matched pair of ribbons I have ordered, to arrive. I am sure they will sound fantastic. Also, good tip about the cymbals ;)

[@thesonicexperience4590]

I have a question not really directly related to this subject.. I know there are plugins with mono frequency knobs like the brainworx control that allow you to collapse a signal to mono from your selected frequency and everything below it, but is there a plugin with a mono frequency knob that collapses to mono from your selected frequency and everything ABOVE it? So for instance if I set the knob at 8khz, everything above that frequency would collapse to mono. I need a plugin that can do that. When I do a wide vocal double, I like to mono the low AND the really high frequencies to keep the S's and T's focused in the middle, and right now I only have a really complicated way of making the high frequencies mono like that. Just wondering if anyone knows of a plugin that does this..

[@IamPeavey]

What's the most number of microphones have you used for just drum recording? Because i've been thinking of combining different overhead techniques (2 Large diaphram condensers, 2 matched pencil condensers, and a single room mic) to get a real full drum sound with an objective to get either a roomy sound, an "in your face" sound, or even a blend of both for sort of a natural reverb kind of thing. Lastly, I know phasing might be an issue but do you think the idea is overkill or sound for the sake of having options and/or fullness? Love the videos man! I've been learning a lot and putting them to practice combined with my own styles. Hope to hear from you

[@josevergaradrum]

Excelente !!! Y con esta técnica cómo podría grabar una gretsch catalina maple 5 toms?

[@creativesoundlab]

These drums are Birch Pearl Masters Custom. From 1999.

[@abdisoewoto6118]

is it applicable for live situation? Kind of top 40 music but leaned toward rock a bit, full amplified electric instrument. and what if I use small diagram condenser?

[@creativesoundlab]

Hmm, usually for live the engineers will just place mics above the cymbals, with little regard to the distance of each mic to the snare.

[@colourofsounduk]

I always felt that the Recorderman Technique really improves on the Glyn Johns method; although it does narrow the stereo image a little bit.

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah would agree with that, although I wasn't trying to do the recorderman here. Just raising the mic up.

[@ok-tchau]

What about using a mono OH and close mic the kick and floor tom individualy?

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah, that's almost the mentality here. This video was to cover my own approach to Glyn Johns, but what you are saying would work well too. I think the snare sounds best in a overhead anyhow.

[@eirikauneboehmer7980]

Would you be interested in making a video about recording bass cabinets? It seems to be quite unpopular/out dated methode compared to DI so there is not so many videos about it and I think nobody would be better to explain it properly then you! Just started out with recording and is saving up/looking for the correct microphone to record my bass rig, where my speakers is a big part off my sound. For now I'm only justing recording the bass directly into my interface.

[@creativesoundlab]

I just got a bass cab, great idea!

[@eirikauneboehmer7980]

Great! Thanks and keep ut the good work :-)

[@robtanico1949]

May I ask what song you're playing to ? It sounds exactly like a friend of mine, Jonathan Tea

[@creativesoundlab]

I don't think I ever am playing to any one song. Just playing a groove.

[@robtanico1949]

Around 7:17 you're playing to the clip I'm talking about. I'm sure it's not him, just curios. Great videos btw

[@hbrookes]

Thanks, are you keeping all drums mono?

[@creativesoundlab]

No, this is just a different way of thinking of the two "Overheads" while using the kick plus the snare mic.

[@DrewArmstrongMusic]

Honestly I thought that the ribbons using the reverse technique made all the difference. A little smoother and less attack than the condensers but a lot more bottom end from what I can hear.

[@RocknRollAddict666]

why not just ad a floor tom mic? you'll just have a mono drum sound, but that works for me! :)

[@13PMMusic]

Personally, I've found that putting the floor tom mic more "behind the kit" (closer to the drummer's butt) lends more low end to the tom and the kick. Plus it adds great body to the snare.

[@creativesoundlab]

Hmmm, that is interesting. That's pretty low. I'll have to try that.

[@13PMMusic]

Let me correct my statement a little. It should actually be more level with the tom and closer to the back of the drummers butt.

[@ZacharyRedFulton]

I like this reverse setup. However, I wanted to recommend this link to you where the engineer explains the Glyn Johns method into great detail and points out that a third mic is placed in front of the bass drum. Here's the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKKrgoWoZ7SUrtU

[@creativesoundlab]

Yeah I still need to try that technique out. I'm still working off of the older technique where the kick mic isn't measured. For this video, I may have not made it clear, but I still use a kick mic, and still would use a snare mic too. It's mostly about that floor tom being stronger. I like the idea of that video though, and will def do a video on it.

[@ZacharyRedFulton]

creativesoundlab Good to hear! Thanks for the response! I've also heard of another mic technique where, back in the '60s, Hollywood session drummers (Hal Blaine especially) would put only three close mics on their kit, and those were a close kick mic, a close snare mic and a close hi-hat mic, then one or two overheads to finish it off. Now I don't know about you, but I think the isosceles triangle mic setup in conjunction with the three close mics I just mentioned would be my ideal setup. :-)