REVERSE GRIP SWORD FIGHTING - reply to Shadiversity

sorry for the repost, had to fix audio
There’s one dude I know in Buhurt & ACW who has been incorporating more reverse grip usage of his sword successfully in the last year or so, I figured we could add some different perspective to the discussion I saw on Shadiversity’s video about the topic. I 99% agree with Shad’s video but just thought they might find additional input from the fully armored context of Buhurt to be interesting. The reverse grip sword wielding mad lad weeb is Dylan of the Warpigs, a good friend of mine and my preferred wingman to my tank role.

[@NjordArtisan]

Dylans voice with +10 intimidation while wielding a hog splitter with that armor is enough to win any battle 😄 Great video guys, nice to see such a practical approach to the topic!

[@twanvanderdonk2504]

But it really just is a Buhurt context though, not the historical context.

[@yuckfoutube3]

His voice sounds like the voice filter they used for Xerxes in 300... Without a filter

[@DukeTheTank]

Lmao

[@fenison4430]

I liked this video, respectful, explaining your arguments clearly, showing examples of how you guys use it, all to the point, great job mates.

[@DukeTheTank]

Thanks!!

[@drifter-donosadventureobsc9565]

Thank god, I'm glad that there are at least some HEMA people out there who aren't looking at reverse grip in such a tight vacuum. In eastern martial arts, its mostly used to defend attackers or potential assassins in extremely close quarters, before switching to conventional grips once distance has been made. There is more to combat that duelist specific scenarios where weapons are already drawn, and everyone starting at 10 feet away. I especially like your concept on using it to defend allies at your side. That's another scenario I would not have thought of until you guys pointed it out.

[@DukeTheTank]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it! we are Buhurt though, not Hema, just fyi :) very team oriented fighting instead of 1v1

[@David_Fellner]

@@DukeTheTank I had never heard of Buhurt before. Just looked it up and I love the idea of full-contact medieval combat rather than the points system used by HEMA.

[@DukeTheTank]

@@David_Fellner I respect Hema practitioners alot but ya I looooove Buhurt!

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

@@DukeTheTank isn’t the armor you use for buhurt thicker than historical armors? I remember hearing that somewhere but it’d be cool for you to confirm it

[@DukeTheTank]

@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 ooh man, that deserves its own video, I'll try and do that at some point after getting more informed on it but the answer would be kind of all over the place. Some people's kit is pretty thin to keep the weight down to move quick, some ppl use mostly titanium which will be lightweight even when thicker than historical. I have heard before that historical field kit was around 55 to 60 lbs, in our sport I would bet that 65 to 70 ish is average. But I might be wrong on those numbers by a few pounds. Again, this needs its own video lol thanks for your comment! I'll try and get more accurately educated on this so I can make a good video on it that doesn't mislead people :)

[@mikeyMIKE777HJG]

You put a lot of effort into this video and even if Shadiversity doesn’t get a chance to reply over 500 people so far have enjoyed the video.

[@tyeriicaru]

someone with your voice comes at me in plate armor my fat ass is turning into an Olympic sprinter. I don't care which way your sword is gripped. Usain ain't gonna have shit on me.

[@DukeTheTank]

Lmao ya he's loud af xD

[@nodarikvatchantiradze7277]

Somebody give this man a voice-acting contract 😄

[@drumzyxox7907]

how is his voice so intimidating

[@unifiedhorizons2663]

that knight in blue i swear has the force of god he jerks himself free while 2 guys were trying to pin him to the floor

[@vault_dwelIer]

You should send this to the Sellsword Arts channel. Considering he's made an entire year out of reverse grip videos I imagine he'd be happy to get in contact with some people who aren't keyboard warriors. Could make for a really cool collaboration, but perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself there.

[@santi_super_stunts2573]

Good idea bro

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Idk Dylan’s voice might scare him off

[@UltraReviewShow]

Good video for a very specific subject. I didn't expect the fight to be like an armored tag team wrestling match.

[@DukeTheTank]

Thank you! Buhurt normally is 5v5 which usually plays out with teams putting 2 ppl on the right rail, 2 on the left, 1 center. So we were demonstrating a normal interaction of one rail of fighting basically.

[@trickydickydave4613]

A really cool way to handle the clunkyness of grappling with longer weapons. Also Dylan you sound like Shipmaster from the Halo series, fucking mint!

[@carminescurse]

As soon as he started talking, I immediately knew that's exactly the voice the man should have.

[@Gaming4ever-pd7jv]

I agree that half-swording with a reverse grip is excellent for armor fighting. That block only works in Buhurt because stabs are not allowed.

[@Rap1dSw0rd]

Hey, I came from the Shadiversity response from this video and had to get a better view of what you were doing. You did a great job showing the way you use this and how it is usefull in grappling. This is the first time I have seen something about Buhurt and I am intrigued by it. I have looked at your other videos and liked them all. You have another subscriber. Keep up the good work. I particularly like the close up view/demonstrations in this video so we can actually see what is going on.

[@DukeTheTank]

Thanks! Really appreciate the input :)

[@unguidedamateur7744]

This is a rather unusual and unique angle of view from people who actually use it in practice. Also, Dylan should try voice acting with such a powerful voice

[@LordOwenLongstrider]

I could imagine in a medieval fight they would try to grab an opponent's weapon if that opponent was using a long-hafted weapon like a two-handed axe, glaive, spear, etc., but smacking a sword blade away, even with a fully gauntleted hand, would be crazy, done only on very rare occasions as a desperate move if at all.

[@oskar8536]

Yo, Dylan should seriously consider voice acting! It’s incredible

[@DukeTheTank]

I agree!

[@-Kailinn-]

That was great. I dislike when people get so focussed on what they think people used to do. You're going to do whatever works, and when it works once you might try it again until someone counters it and you die. There's no absolutes, there's only live or die, and sometimes an unexpected way of fighting can throw someone off enough to grant you victory.

[@SquallLionhart409]

Coming over from Shad's response, you've earned a view, a like, and a sub with how much I enjoyed this video.

[@DukeTheTank]

Thank you!

[@santi_super_stunts2573]

Why does beanie guy look like a fusion between Jason mamoa and post Malone?

[@DukeTheTank]

Please do not broadcast our cloning secrets on such a public forum, thank you

[@HackettCustoms]

Thanks for the live demonstration guys! This was very practically informative. Any chance you could elaborate on how your points on reverse grip apply to one handed weapons as well?

[@DukeTheTank]

Ya sure I'll try n make that video in maybe 3 days or so! Work has me busy these next couple days

[@user-mt1qi4vd1z]

As always, there can be found a use for almost everything, especially if the circumstances are specific

[@unifiedhorizons2663]

9:16 the fact he stops from the black man hand strike earlier in the vid few seconds.... from that strike probably means back handing or something

[@jamie7472]

Not only is that dude built like an orc he sounds like one too. When he was setting up that knee to the head you could see what he was thinking "if you don't yield when you know you should, then this is what you get" What a beast

[@beebacheeba]

And buhurt is great, it is full armor fighting. It is probably the closest thing to actual battle as far as individuals or teams of armored combatants taking eachother on and notice the amount of close combat that ensues. Armor fighting or training to fight in armor involved a LOT of grappling training for a reason LOL Okay, keep going! Keep fighting!

[@canonize9241]

Love watching you check your battle buddy at 8:44. Making sure he stays safe. Havent watched any type of armored combat in a while, was great seeing the 4 of you in that little demonstration. XD

[@Madcowdiseiz]

Well I wasn't expecting to run across you guys on KZbin today. Greetings, I am one of the Sterling Mercs that a mutual friend of ours has been hanging out with. I'm glad you emphasized that last bit, about this being particular to an armored context. That is what really stood out to me. Leaving the armpit exposed in a hanging guard is a bigger issue in armor. In a context with lower amounts of armor you're going to be exposed either way. Also, I noticed that the blows still snuck through toward his legs, which again isn't a problem in armor but would be without it. Good video. Keep up the good work.

[@Jauzness87]

I imagine the sidewalk being just behind the camera. Some dude just walking by thinking "what the f...?". Great video, would very much not want to be on a battlefield against that guy.

[@TheDevilMethod]

Good work guys

[@ShinFahima]

Hearing this from real-live Men-at-Arms is compelling. :D

[@SailingPantera]

Exactly this glad someone said it. 👍🏿 Good work guys glad I found your channel

[@anthonyclare6750]

Great explanation and perspective. Bravo

[@kevinstockwell2894]

Actually, a lot of rapier texts describe techniques using your off hand to knock an incoming thrust offline. And there were dueling gauntlets with mail on the inside of the hand

[@jonathanh4443]

First off thank you for pointing out the defensive aspect of a reverse grip. I bring it up regularly but no one really cares. Even if you consider stage combat the reverse grip allows you to show a 'defensive' rather than offensive posture. Second most HEMA people have no idea what to do in a group fight. Defending anyone but yourself is not practiced or even thought about. I've been adding that in with my group lately and it really shows that you need to train to fight with a friend or group, single training will not be good enough if your fighting people who actually train to defend each other and work as a team.

[@alucardv.8114]

7:26 That knee was absolutely brutal lmao. Armor or not he's feeling that for a solid week after

[@jamesw2855]

Great explanations, I would love more live fighting examples of techniques.

[@nostalji75]

Damn thats some sweet looking armour! Nice focus on grappling! This seems very realistic.

[@zun-viik]

I didn't understand a lot of the rules/ limitations, but got the points you were making as a tank.

[@beebacheeba]

Very cool, however you are supposed to have mail mittens or gloves inside of your plate gauntlets LOL In the old days that is how things were done. ANY and EVERY open gap, including the palms, once people lessened the weight by removing a lot of the mail beneath the plate(s) all openings would still be covered by mail.. Look at the old artwork as well, you'll notice full mail mittens and no that's not an error on the part of the artist, that is how things were done. From there plates were added to the back and sometimes even to the palms and in place of the leather straps.

[@beebacheeba]

It is only after peacetime and lesser tournaments that the leather glove alone within a gauntlet became a "thing". Until then people were VERY much about grabbing and directing or controlling blades of all sorts such as spears and swords. This is why swords fell out of favor and spears became more long and hardy. Axes and hammers then started to rule. But anyway, good video.

[@jgttx]

If nothing else, you guys clearly demonstrated how effective armor can be.

[@gialon10]

Great video guys. Really showing some good ways of using reverse grip 👌

[@mrjtfang2]

I don't know if this all counts within the same realm of reverse grip as most think of-because the way you grip a two-handed weapon, where the bottom hand still seems orientened 'correctly', because i do believe its an actual sword technique where you reverse the upper hand to gain point control. I don't think its as useful chopping in this case. Also saw that anatomical problem that shad saw, where someone can strike at your blade while in reverse grip and depending on where it hits (Not to mention that an axe could seemingly make it even worse, like it appears in footage) the ability to maintain a deflection becomes SIGNIFICANTLY harder than if you used a more properly oriented block. Arguably as well, I'm not sure how well your guys' version of the sport would reflect. I also think there are a few variants of metal hand protection that cover up the hand pretty accurately, and when you have mail and even padding underneath, it seem's pretty likely that you could could the palm. There's also other deflections you can make with the top side of your particular style of gauntlet, I think. Now, uh... I'm an armchair here, so take it with a grain of salt. This is kinda' my analysis, but I'm stupid. Might be wrong.

[@DukeTheTank]

Hey thanks for ur input! Did u see Shad's live stream last night where they reviewed this video? They touched on a lot of the points u made in ur comment

[@favkisnexerade]

I do hema and if you add tiniest bits of armor then fighting changes a lot, in unarmored ifghting you need every bit of range mobility and stuff but we sometimes do sparrings and dont count light hits (gambeson simulation) and even at that level, everything changes, you can block shallow hits with your arms, then get in and do grapple a lot more easily. I do military saber and with some kind of armor rules with reverse grip I think it'd be dope to cover myself a lot while coming close for a grapple

[@edwardrichard2561]

So after watching reverse grip is pretty much useless in most situations but is effective in select certain ones.

[@DukeTheTank]

Bingo!

[@paullucas9536]

A lot of arguments against reverse grip are usually done without consideration for armor. Like demonstrated at the start, a block with a reverse grip is "flimsy" and won't completely stop the blow, but it will significantly lessen the impact to the point that armor will nullify the rest. There are a lot of grappling implications with reverse grip; it seems to be better suited for close quarters combat. One thing I noticed was the length of a weapon's handle could greatly affect the usefulness of reverse grip. With something like a longsword, there isn't much room between both points of contact on the grip to make use of in grappling unlike the weapon used in the demonstration. Overall I was very surprised by its effectiveness. It seems that reverse grips are perfectly fine for armored combat where striking is already ineffective and grappling is key. This makes complete sense as reverse grips disadvantage is its ability to hold its own in "duels" where your only defense is your weapon. Very interesting to see how armor completely changes the equation.

[@JasperLane]

Im sure you already know this but Shad reacted to ya. Get ready for a boost that you deserve!

[@KonaBoda]

I was NOT prepared for Dylan’s voice.

[@Aardan98]

Offtopic but Dylan looks like a stoned Jason Momoa. Also great video.

[@wilbynature6181]

Excellent video! I loved how you explored both the theory and the practical application of reverse grip. Earned a subscriber today! As a side note. What is the weapon your fearsome and intimidating voiced friend Dylan of the war pigs is using and where did he get it from?

[@justicar5]

for the palming the sword away thing, the treatises do show it, and we have examples of gauntlets and gloves with chain mail on the palms, so seems to suggest that they were designed with that in mind. Great video otherwise.

[@joeyvanhaperen7715]

I come from a hema background but I do have expierence in armor and this makes a level of sense. Like if you are for example in formation and your standing behind someon I can see how holding your sword or halberd reversed grip over someons head could for example help protected there upperbody and would allow for more powerfull trust from above and in grappeling you could push the sword point or point of poleaxe into the the floor behind the knee or even inside of the knee while you have them in a headlock and use it to trip them over to then finish your enemy of or when halfswording it could even allow you to pommelstrike and hook with the guerd more effectifly. Bassicly it's not that usefull in one to one unarmourd combad, but it can make sense in armored combad on a battlefield in certain situations. Sow yeh It's a intressting angle to consider. 👍

[@naimishtiakahmed9221]

I remember in PoP Warrior Within the Prince would reverse grip while blocking.

[@DukeTheTank]

I miss those games, played through the 1st one many times

[@staalhugger4927]

Will you be in Prague for the VM? I've just got myself a 2h falchion, I think it's the buckle, I didn't even think of it as a possibility, but I can see places where it would be good to be able to. Thanks for sharing

[@DukeTheTank]

I will not, sadly, but Dylan will :)

[@staalhugger4927]

@@DukeTheTank Cool, then i might get a chanse to talk to him ^^

[@merlinkater7756]

Sorry i haven't really been listening i just have been looking at your amazing armor.

[@cheesestyx945]

I've seen situations where touching a sword barehanded is justified because it either saves your life or ends theirs is does seem kinda iffy otherwise. Unless you have chain mail mittens on which did exist.

[@dr.skillz77mgpl92]

Me wondering why they don't just use star wars plastic lightsabers instead of all those heavy metallic weapons that could leave a dent lol

[@DukeTheTank]

In our sport the goal is to leave a dent :)

[@Tupadre97]

These mfs big af for no reason. Look like some for honor characters.

[@scratchthesurface8084]

dylan be dealing physical damage with the moves and emotional damage with his voice xD anyway very very interesting points i aldo think you can actually use it quite good to draw cut in theory when moving around tho probably not deep i guess?

[@DukeTheTank]

No armor: sure, draw cut good, but against armor u want that choppy impact kind of hit :)

[@scratchthesurface8084]

@@DukeTheTank yeah totally makes sense i think its really impressive that you guys were able to show reverse grip can be useful but i think technique discussion intriguing but ridiculous because in the end attributs win fights not techniques xD

[@l33tsamurai]

Also I hear poleaxes are held in reverse grip...

[@DukeTheTank]

When I yoink them, yes lol

[@arc3944]

What is the style of Dylans sword called (asking for a friend)

[@DukeTheTank]

He calls it a carcass splitter but I'll ask for more specifics

[@matthewgreen6131]

Thats what it is, A carcass splitter.

[@funkytownjedi]

Armor looks badass 😎👍🏽

[@DukeTheTank]

Thank you!!

[@nicomontanez33]

Buddy sounds like an Eldridge horror

[@deadronin47]

I want this man sword

[@omgahandlelol]

the algorithm did not disappoint.

[@hassenmokhtari5029]

What kind of sword is Dylan using

[@DukeTheTank]

They call it a "carcass splitter", made by this guy: instagram.com/american_buhurt

[@xyzstun360]

Great video guys keep up the grind

[@user-zz8rz2oc7j]

Damn man, you are scarry, If I would approach you in an armored combat I would just run

[@raisinbran4989]

Dylan’s seen too much buhurt

[@Hathathorne]

Sounds like the voice pitch slider all the way down

[@DukeTheTank]

We even edited it to sound like there is less contrast between us so just fyi in real life it is even more stark lol

[@paulfry3221]

Are you one of the children of Andre the Giant?

[@chunchoe]

dylan is more jason momoa than jason momoa is

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

The problem is... I believe shad was talking more.. a one on one.. no battle buddys. A match.. a spar... A fight

[@DukeTheTank]

Ya I'm not disagreeing or arguing against them, I agree with almost everything they said. I just thought they might find our tiny niche application interesting.

[@LongswordRussia]

you are great fellows, friends! make more reverse grip videos!

[@freddymichalak9306]

Try a saber with reverse gritps

[@timmystickman7880]

where do you guys get your armor?

[@DukeTheTank]

Mine is made by Volot in Ukraine, I believe Dylan's is mostly or entirely by Kyle Harris in the U.S.

[@timmystickman7880]

@@DukeTheTank Cool, Thanks!

[@funbro99]

Sellsword arts B-lining to this video.

[@branharak1331]

Awesome video dudes! Harass armor too

[@michaelclarke9937]

Cool ideas. Thanks for the video. Where do you guys fight out of?

[@DukeTheTank]

We are on team Warpigs based in Sacramento, but I am not from there, I just enjoy fighting with that group of folks. They are good authentic people :)

[@alinvid6098]

Yout buddy Dylan should play Darth Vader if there will be any future Star Wars projects that feature him 😄😎

[@chris1549]

Great application for grappling your opponent when they're busy fighting your buddy, but I think people are more concerned about weather or not reverse grip is effective in 1 on 1 situations. Also, I feel like it wouldn't be uncommon to have Armour on the inside of the hand because half-swording exists (not an expert nor do I have experience these are just observations I have made from watching WAY too many videos) I think there is definitely a practical use in grappling tho as you demonstrated; just not in dueling/1 on 1 combat which most people seem to be interested in.

[@ShiningDarknes]

People are also not saying never use a reverse grip, they are mostly saying strikes and blocks with especially one-handed reverse grips are not practical when you an easily swap to a normal grip. Unarmored or lightly armored fighting likewise doesn't use much in the way of grappling unless you have a short weapon and want to prevent them from opening the distance after you have closed in since striking is more effective just hit them. In armor it is okay if strikes blow through a reverse-grip block since you have armor to take the rest of the blow. The biggest downside to revere grip is it gives up reach, and reach is your armor in unarmed fights. In order to strike or block you have to basically close to grappling range which your opponent can just stay out of with warding swings.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Ok... I much more like this sport... More than the stuff. Shad.. Skal... Matt... Raf... Anachronism... And Lindybeige.. Is talking about

[@timothydavies5337]

cool vidio dudes

[@maartenlehmann2556]

Wow, I could robably show this way how effective it is to fight with a broom. If you are wearing full armor and don’t care abo

[@DukeTheTank]

Aye but u can't flip a broom back to orthodox and lay someone out, u can with that chonky sword he uses

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

Lmao you guys are those bash each other with sword-like clubs right? 😂

[@DukeTheTank]

Yes lol

[@Ashbringer85]

Disagree with your points based on context because it's different. Most Hema clubs sword fights are based around unarmoured combat where your clearly fully armoured. You all go very easily to wrestling which is very different to HEMA. Could it work in an armour brawl? Maybe, but you would be better to drop the sword and use a knife

[@DukeTheTank]

That was kinda the whole point though... Unarmored, reverse grip largely doesn't find success. Armored, I see my friend use it successfully very briefly on occasion, we were just trying to show that tiny niche application where it is once in a while useful, not trying to defend it as a primary fighting style or wtvr.

[@davidmacon1138]

Shad can't fight. Plain and simple. He hasn't ever gotten a scar or hurt in any capacity to train harder. He is a book snob and that's all.

[@DukeTheTank]

Eh... he has alot of health problems, I dont think he should be harshly judged for it. He's doing what he can :)

[@davidmacon1138]

@@DukeTheTank I've seen 80 year olds rolling on the mats for Aikido. Health problems are a backseat issue when you throw your ego into a ring you can't stand in.

[@TheSteam02]

Seriously, get into contact with Sellswordarts. He's actively stated that he wants a teacher to teach reverse grip. He'll at least understand that just because something is "situational," doesn't mean that it's useless.