Reviewing Rising Sun 3 Years Later

[@NickJacksonusa]

So just a clarification on the Tea Ceremony. The Bonus part says "You and a Ally" so "You" always get the the bonus regardless if you are allied. I see that played wrong quite often and that is why your odd person might have felt left out. Edit: Okay so I disagree on the battle part as well because there is so much strategy. You didn't mention how the winner has to give the loser their coins. So you might lose one battle to win another battle. Also don't underestimate the power of Seppuku and Imperial Poets to get massive points. This game is not about getting and holding territory at the end of the day the only thing that matters is scoring points. That's what makes it so different than most war games. Last I just wanted to say you have an awesome channel!! I feel lucky to have stumbled across it.

[@fredericoamaral95]

Rising Sun is my top 1 game, just because of all the mechanics included, specially the blind bidding battle. It's so glad tense and it's a climax for the end of each season.

[@TigerVent]

1. Disagree. Essential to how the game feels. 2. Disagree. Rolling dice is repetitive too. The unknown opposing player choice is the tension 3. I hate bluffing games and negotiating games. I LOVE rising sun! 4. Theme fits PERFECTLY. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING??? 2 OUT OF 5??? Wow... It's an area control game! .......

[@JovinGhoul23]

I feel like removing the tea ceremony from rising sun, would be the equivalent of removing the allies from cosmic encounter. It's a great mechanic for this game imo, I feel like it's the gamers rather than the game

[@TimChuon]

ah that's a fair point! I can definitely see how essential it is; ultimately RS is a negotiation game and I'd prefer if it was more combat oriented/non negotiation! Thanks william~

[@nathanmichael167]

Still remains one of my favorite games because of the Tea Ceremony. It starts the game off with understanding the elogance of the game and sets the tone that this game is not your typical war game. It's not all about the fighting. One of my biggest issues with fighting in games is that it lacks the subtly of diplomacy. Making uneasy alliances even when one side clearly benefits more than the other. I hardly think that taking this way suddenly makes this game more accessible. I've played this game with die hard gamers and complete newbies (very first game and that person came in second to one of the other new players). If you go into any game antagonistic about an element and attempt to explain it, it will come off and that itself ruins the experience.

[@TimChuon]

that's interesting to hear! and a very valid point that you mentioned when alliances are kinda subtly introduced-i actually notice that now that you pointed it out (in other war games). it might just boil down to group dynamics; i think mine doesn't work as well when there are formal alliances being made. However! i never introduce games antagonistically (it only seems that way because i spill my thoughts here haha) because regardless of how i feel about a game, i always remove the negativity out when we play because as you said-it'd ruin the experience for sure! Thank you for all your thoughts friend~

[@oerthling]

Disliking the area Ceremony because it's awkward with anybody is very much a group specific thing. We're playing a competitive conflict game here. The role of every player is to crush the other players. And that's something every player should understand and never take personally. Anybody who thinks Rising Suns Tea Ceremony is awkward would need therapy after playing Diplomacy. ;-) Removing the Tea Ceremony part (forming fleeting alliances of convenience, before brutally crushing your ally later) wouldn't improve the game at all. Wanting to do so because it feels awkward for you is just an indication that this gnaw is not for you and/or your group (yet).

[@PaulShapiro]

It’s to the table less often than Blood Rage because it’s longer and a little harder to teach (also pandemic), but I really think it’s the better game.

[@TheNardran]

I think you misunderstood the alliance and the mandate benefits though. In your example, if you choose the Harvest mandate, everyone gets 1 coin and you (and your ally) get the benefits of the regions you control. the ally bit is not required to reap the region rewards, on your turn.

[@TimChuon]

ah! that's definitely my fault in explaining poorly 😅 but we played the way you mentioned it! I just think it's still overpowered because it'd be nice to have flexibility in whether or not you want to ally with someone....but with rewards enhanced that much with an alliance versus without, it makes the decision have less weight-that's how i perceive it!

[@cfosburg]

7:50 you and I have very different experiences with this mechanic. The tension in the room can be palpable at this point. I’m not sure you’re thinking about all of your options… The blind bidding should not be mechanical, and there should be big surprises, and epic moments. I’m not sure what else to say on that, I think it’s really too bad this mechanic falls flat for you. I also don’t agree that blind bidding is bluffing. You can’t lose focus of what you’re trying to achieve in this game, which is not to conquer the most territory. But to strategically conquer territories that are a value. If you can, limit the victories your opponent gets at the same time, but there in lies the rub - The temptation to push too far and not achieve your primary objective 😏. I also don’t agree about the negotiation part, this mechanic fell flat for me and my family and we barely touch it. The tea party is more about forming alliances to get benefits than it is about negotiation. Overall, I enjoyed your critique and review. You explained where you stand and why you think that way, as a viewer that’s really nice to know.

[@branboom3342]

I totally agree, the blind bidding is chalk full of tension as there are many ways to outwit your opponent, even if your army or wallet is lacking.

[@ghstrdio]

Is there a way to change the combat? Get rid of the bluffing and negotiation?

[@michaelmaultsby895]

It’s not a bluffing game, as much as you might think. The war game aspect is definitely not a traditional warfare mechanic. Heinz and George of WWII might appreciate the game.

[@cesar2189]

Is there any way to play this game with just 2 players??

[@panicattheroomwhereithappe2651]

I wish I have board game friends to play with. *cries*

[@TimChuon]

😭 the feels! it's ok you got this!...it only took me a few years to find some! 😂

[@panicattheroomwhereithappe2651]

​@@TimChuon 😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😥😌

[@chrismichael9556]

Same here

[@Big_Dai]

"Wish I HAD"*

[@twentysides]

Thanks for this video! I appreciate you going back to re-review something after you've had a lot of time with it. Have you played Cry Havoc and do you have any thoughts on the combat in that game? It has a similar idea of bidding in battle, but you bid using the units in the fight, to eliminate or capture troops or secure the location.

[@jdaddyaz]

So when's your copy hitting BGG auction? Need those KS extras, and insert. Don't worry, I've a good home for it.

[@OrdemDoGraveto]

When playing with strangers, you pay to get the alliance, or you try to comvince the person that your are the better option, be It because you plan to play the same mandate that person wants, or you have an extra mandate on this Seasons, or the other person is least in honor and wont have any reason not to betray...

[@Tablenauts]

Excellent video Tim! Interestingly enough I spent the day playing all 3 Lang games for the first time. I loved them all and really enjoyed Rising Sun after the first play! With that said- I can certainly see your points and lean in agreement with you on occasion! Everything is subject to change after more plays but first impressions were good. I do enjoy the battle bidding and still felt excited to see that I won a certain bid or something of the sort, but I can see it dulling. Despite not really noticing it, I actually, in hindsight, totally agree with you on the tea ceremony. The negotiation should come far more natural than the game leading you to an immediate disadvantage. Anyways, loved the game, loved the video.

[@Renegade_KT]

Isn't that a bit of a spoiler for when your video will come up on your channel? Haha 😁 I still like to have your thought shared here 😉

[@Tablenauts]

@@Renegade_KT definitely a spoiler that I enjoyed them! No spoilers on rankings and which I liked more! :) Thanks so much!

[@TimChuon]

oh awesome glad you guys had a fun experience with RS! it certainly is dependent on game group for sure, especially with how negotiation tactics work for RS. Either way, this one probably won't stay much longer in my collection haha but i hope you guys have an awesome time with it regardless!

[@Marky_X]

I did own the Kickstarter version of it and sold it. Regarding the "odd one" out in a public setting, I did mainly teach this game to new people. While on paper it sounds bad, the "betray" action makes going solo viable. I have been in games where people would betray their alliances so the solo player doesn't betray them. It's not that much of an issue if you understand why the mechanisms are there in the first place. I do agree with the majority of your grievances, hence why I sold my copy at a decent profit.

[@TimChuon]

ah spoiler for the series RS is going to be involved in....it looks like it's leaning that way to be sold on my end as well! ohhhh now that's cool, thanks for sharing your experience! I wouldn't think that'd happen with betrayals in odd-one-out games. Thanks Mark!

[@gabrieldomocos7570]

The tea ceremony seems like a nice way to rubber band a bit. Maybe the leading player gets shunned which allows others to catch up. Not being allied saves you the stress of treachery also

[@ThePebblor]

I really like reviews of games released after some time they've been out, and to consider how they compare to other games. I can't justify to have multiple area control games so i need to always review and cull for my collection to feel epic. Thanks for your thoughts!

[@ThrehaneMiniatures]

This game is on my list of games that I want to try, but not necessarily buy. It's in the BGG top 100, so I'm interested to see what all the acclaim is about. Luckily, my FLGS has a rental program where I can rent this game for $5/week. I'm definitely going to do that. It's great to hear for thoughts on this game!

[@TimChuon]

oh i had no idea there were rental programs out there! That's awesome, and very fitting for a game of this scale/cost; let me know what you think when you get a chance to play RS!

[@quibily]

I've only played this once, but I suspect I'd probably come across the same thoughts. I really like blind bidding as a mechanic, but everything else feels a bitter less dramatic than the game appears to be. Curious, though: how many times have you played it?

[@TimChuon]

Yes exactly! Let me know what you think when you get a chance to play! argh I’ve been meaning to mention that in my reviews (will do so in the future!) I’ve had around 7-8 plays with it in 3-5 player counts!

[@KMReviews]

I played with 4 people so there was zero reason to not be aligned with someone. But also it made betrayal weird.. because if you do it, you lose some benefits which you don’t wanna do… and the next season you are gonna be aligned again.. I feel like there should be an extra benefit to not being aligned. Then if there’s an odd one out they don’t feel screwed, and if you have an even amount of people there’s an incentive to betray. Would make being aligned or not more interesting.

[@marcodavinci3150]

I feel like the Tea Ceremony and alliances are great if used as a catch up mecanic against a player who is ahead or just against a more experienced player!

[@AFel-pp1hp]

Could not disagree more with this take. The game is tense from start to finish. You need to be in the mind of every single opponent. Incredible game.

[@HorseIRL]

This game is absolutely my favorite of the three Eric Lang area control games.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I usually don't enjoy these types of games because people believe that any alliance with me will help _me_ win.

[@cedricc.306]

You should try Game of thrones the board game or Battle for Rokugan which both have a secret orders mechanics for combats. Got is more complexe and epic and Rokugan focus on this secret orders mechanics, it's shorter and more stream line, but both are good .

[@rudyrudelaemmerhirt]

Im looking to find this game for a deal just because I love painting minis like the ones in this game

[@khianlimfoo9724]

I think Eric Lang always tries new game mechanics in his new games. I totally agree with the tea ceremony part. You don't need a "negotiation" phase to make people negotiate. At some point, people will work together or fight against each other. Definitely think the stage presence is on point, unfortunately, the game got a lot of bad reviews in BGG due to poor research for the game. I remembered someone mentioned wrong names being used, the map doesn't represent japan, the name rising sun can be very offensive to some people, etc. I personally think the single-player mode is fun. You should definitely try it out!

[@TimChuon]

i totally respect that! i think it's great experimentation, but i'd love to see the progression/chemistry of the playtesters. I think it'd be awesome to see test footage of all that actually. I had no idea there was a solo mode till you pointed it out just now-thank you! hopefully-if there's ever a future reiteration of RS- they'll have those corrections in as well!

[@kielharper1524]

With the right people its a great game. I can see how its not everyones cup of tea but i do love the game.

[@_HungS0L0_]

I enjoy the game. I enjoy the subject matter more but it’s overall a good game. I’d love to hear your thoughts and opinions on wonderlands war

[@mikeboyle269]

You're not thinking the Tea Ceremony through. With 5 or 7 players, if players are thinking, the player who looks like they are winning will be the player who doesn't get an ally. Also if you are one of the players who will get to go twice in a turn, you can accept bribes to partner with someone. Lots of tactical deals can be made. Rising Sun remains my favorite game, but looking forward to Ankh.

[@vzuzukin]

Rising Sun is a beautiful highly produced game, but Lords Of Hellas is a better strategy game and Blood Rage is a better Eric Lang game

[@PaulShapiro]

No way. I own Lords of Hellas and Blood Rage, but Rising Sun is the best of the three.

[@jakefernandez6623]

I like THE CUT!

[@TimChuon]

IM SO CONFLICTED! we'll see where the title goes!! hahah thanks!

[@halilkardicali7738]

"It's not what it seems!" is a great definition for this game. Eric Lang's whole trilogy, looks a lot like straight forward dudes on a map gripping for control war games because of the way that they are produced. You expect to hit others with the great models and assume the mechanics will mainly be about that. That is not the case though and if table talk, negotiations and mind games is not joyful for your borad gaming you would probably not like his games, Rising Sun included.

[@jakefernandez6623]

SAME TIM! I've come to the same conclusion that I don't like a lot of the games in my collection 🤣🤣 And I am on a similar war path! The pandemic really does make you realize things.👍

[@cfosburg]

Hi the blind bidding is the pinnacle of this game. That is what builds all of the tension. You have to outthink your opponent, you can’t be greedy, you have to think about the consequences of your bids. You may win the battle but at what cost? You may win an area of the blind bid, but did you win the area? Or better yet did you win the area you should have won, or that you needed to have won? That is what makes this game epic! 😃

[@cookiegoon4126]

I love this game and it’s one of my favorites. I deff respect ur thoughts and can see how I feel the way you do. I do agree that battles can seem underwhelming but like you said it’s a negotiation game. Ii think it might be that it’s not a good game for your group. The game works really well for my group and we all enjoy it. I do wish they had a 2 player variant though. 😞

[@bayes7832]

There is some non official 2 player variant

[@mckeoncrawford9262]

I've never sen the deluxified version but my goodness those look so nice.

[@Angeluspit]

You seem not the type of person for negotiation game. Maybe Rising sun is not your cup of tea.

[@MaruMaruMaruMaruMaruMaru]

it's a good game

[@patrickneky9638]

Great review, I would be interested to see what you think about Ankh. I love this game but I agree that it's not for everyone. I always felt Rising Sun at it's core was a long political war game that emphasizes negotiation, deception and strategy more than tactics. If your group is like mine and like social deduction games, take that, bluffing mechanics and getting into your opponents head than it can be fun and you will probably get that ah ha moment in battle. But if they don't, then don't get this game because it will be as tedious just like it was mentioned in the video. I also think the game is expensive and a space hog. Lastly I am curious on how you felt playing the game with new players after playing it a couple of times.

[@TimChuon]

ohhh i have Ankh as well and dying to play it! hopefully soon...because i've had this idea to pair it with a cinematic so we'll see if that goes through! The way you described RS is word for word how i feel about it. it really feels like a drawn out political game moreso than anything for sure! i think it also helps that it takes up a ton of space so....more reason for me to make room for others! Thank you~

[@chrismichael9556]

Ooof all good points. Additionally it feels like such a beautiful collectors piece on top of being an "ok" game. I just dont think I could let it go. Lol

[@TheShapingSickness]

I had a lot of issues with this game because people just don't want to play it. In the end I gave it away.

[@fablesmith1931]

100% agree with the Tea Ceremony critique! It's starts off the game with such an awkward dynamic between the players. I'm sure it's more fun when you know the game in-and-out and you maybe have some strong persuasive points to why a certain player should ally with you. But it's the thing that keeps RS on my shelf. Very unfortunate, because I love the theme!

[@TimChuon]

right?! i feel like it's inevitable, even in other playthroughs i've watched. Even if it isn't explicitly mentioned, the awkwardness is there haha. glad we share the same points-i definitely want to enjoy it moreso than it is!

[@MrDLYouTube]

Blood Rage is better IMO. I have both, and enjoy them both, but Blood Rage feels like a more thought out game.

[@marcodavinci3150]

To be honest everything you mentioned as a negative feels like a positive for me as it makes this game so much different from other "war" games and its a welcomed changed when playing it!

[@TimChuon]

That’s amazing to hear Marco!! Way more important to me that you found it enjoyable~ glad you’re having a great time 🥳

[@JeanDubuc]

Interesting content. I like this series

[@TimChuon]

thank you! time to demo/revisit older games!

[@CritsHappen]

I LOVE your deep dives philosophically. The discussion of one person being left out being enough to push someone away from a game is spot on, and while it may not be reality for many people, those who it is reality for will have their experience impacted. Love your work!

[@jacoposoppelsa5137]

Are you for real

[@NewBoardGameDesign]

Awesome video!

[@TimChuon]

thanks friend!

[@Webchain]

I hate the blind bidding.

[@TimChuon]

ah agreed! it was interesting and enjoyable at first...but then it kinda just becomes bleh later on

[@cakepop9055]

I have hated this game from the first time I played it. I'm the kinda player who likes to do his own little thing in his own little corner of the world, which is something this game absolutely punishes. On top of that I hate the artwork as well. It is far to busy for my taste and overwelms the senses, especially with the enormous equally busy miniatures plonked on top of it.

[@kietli3386]

😎

[@TimChuon]

👍