Revisiting and expanding Fighting Fantasy

[@mrmrgaming]

The FF books are great, I had many of them back in the 80s, and one of the things I always loved (in most of the books) was the art, so why in the hell did they change it in 2017 onwards is beyond me.

[@yangtze2000]

Agreed, but some of the newer books revisit the original style, which is very welcome 🤩

[@mrmrgaming]

@@yangtze2000 No doubt they had some feedback from the fans. Need to check them out.

[@Lopitra]

I'm playing this book over the internet with some friends. Basically I play the GM and they make the decisions. I asked in the beginning if they wanted to draw a map as they went. They said no. Next session they will reach the maze. I can't wait to see how they handle it without a map.

[@Bren71319]

Last summer I expanded my Fighting Fantasy collection and now I have the first 30 (!) entries on my bookshelf. I’m currently playing “Scorpion Swamp”. I didn’t care for the new artwork in the Scholastic reprints, especially “Deathtrap Dungeon”. I need that “old school” artwork so I also purchased an old copy of the original edition of that one.

[@shockerck4465]

Scorpion Swamp is pretty cool

[@mwhite212]

Nothing compares to Russ Nicholson's art in those early books. So evocative. He also did a lot of the art in the 1st Ed Fiend Folio. One of my favorite old school artists.

[@Bren71319]

Michael White, which Fighting Fantasy books did he illustrate?

[@mwhite212]

@@Bren71319 I know he did Warlock on Firetop Mountain and Citadel of Chaos. He also did some work with the game books "Fabled Lands' I believe.

[@Bren71319]

Now, to find the time to actually play any of these books....

[@machfront]

Also, I’m so jealous of your clean, steady and even free-hand penmanship! Haha! If I wrote those same notes, it would look like chicken-scratch and likely waste three whole pages! 😂

[@ericdraven7185]

City of Theives is the best book in the series... only had two as a kid.. but now I own like the first 10 and my collection is growing.

[@TheFartbreakKid]

I remember getting lost in that maze over and over again. Had to draw a map and everything. Warlock of Fire Top Mountain Is a classic.

[@JeffWittyArt]

This is great! I’m just now discovering game books/fighting fantasy. I do illustration for a TTRPG sequel coming out next year and want to get into doing FF/game book illustration as well! :)

[@cybrim1]

I loved these! Honestly, I preferred Lone Wolf as you had skills, but still good stuff.

[@MortalMercenarae]

I just got a copy of this. I can't wait to adventure. Just super busy with ttrpg production

[@johnberry5296]

Actually Steve and Ian didn’t right the majority of these as in the UK and Europe they exploded in popularity to such a degree that everyone that worked at Games Workshop with them (who had test read the early books) were turned into authors and started turning these out. (Joe Dever, Gary Chalk, Jamie Thomson, etc). The american Steve Jackson (munchkin, Ogre, Car Wars, etc) wrote a few of these too, so it is confusing! There were 59 books in the initial run and towards the end were very sophisticated but once Computer Games became mainstream the writing was on the wall. In the UK and most of Europe many of these are still in print but unfortunately it is mostly the earlier, more famous books only. Also pre-covid there were a few Fighting Fantasy Conventions in London organised by Jonathan Green who is also a Fighting Fantasy author and wrote 2 volumes of gamebook history called “You are the Hero” which are well worth getting if you can.

[@andysimmons2648]

Another excellent video. I used to love the Fighting Fantasy books back in the day. I used to do the opposite to yourself and add extra complications; I would take a D&D character down them and “GM” myself through an adventure trying to use the D&D rules. It was all good fun. Have you tried the Fabled Lands adventures? They’re excellent as well and have a nice minimalist rule set.

[@Codynstef21]

Amazing video, will be buying these for sure

[@robins5314]

Great video, thanks for sharing.

[@MoragTong_]

I actually got the Dell Publishing edition with the white cover and that BAD ASS art work by Russ Nicholson at a Schoolastic Bookfair in the 5th grade. Was the most amazing thing I had ever owned. Best of times.

[@joshjerez3347]

Love seeing these videos! 🤘🏻

[@Liveeruptsuj]

I really loved these, my favorite was titled something like 'Appointment with F.E.A.R. I could never beat that one, I'm going to go online and try to buy an old copy, see if adult eyes can figure it out better.

[@dududu5189]

Appointment with Fear is still bloody hard...

[@pluxauag7555]

These are about to be available on the Nintendo Switch courtesy of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone. Nintendo Switch adaptations due out of three books into games, City of Thieves, The Warlock of Firetop Mountain and Citadel of Chaos.

[@machfront]

Another fun way to expand FF is to grab an older copy of Out of the Pit (FF’s own ‘monster manual’ ), and there are some solid ideas given in their in-house mag, Warlock (I’m in the States as well…so this is all stuff I learned much later, too haha), especially issue #9, focusing on magical items and also issue #4 covering seasoned adventurers and magic and more. Perhaps there are more but the pdfs are easy to find online.

[@questwise4077]

I did eventually pick up Advanced Fighting Fantasy and Out of the Pit as PODs on DriveThruRpg. 😉

[@wagnerbaldin8651]

Firstly, Happy New Year! I've just bought the book game: "The Warlock of Firetop Mountain" for my son. However, since I've been a fan of RPGs for longer, I decided to try out the story myself. The issue is, I've reached a point of deadlock. I'm not sure if it's a mistake in the story because there isn't a second option, and it doesn't explicitly say if it ends there. I was at section 303 when I chose the Left lever and went to 243. In 243, I rolled the dice and lost points, but the text says: "If you want to try the Right lever, go to 128. If you don't want to try any other lever, you won't go much further - and remember not to use the wrong hand!" What if I don't want to try that other lever? I could backtrack the way I came, but there's no indication of which section to go to from there, as the text doesn't say. I also don't know if I've died. This part doesn't make any sense. Does the tiyr text says anything about this? Is there an erratum for this book?

[@questwise4077]

Happy New Year to you! Unfortunately, this is one of those railroad situations. It's forcing you to go back to the other level. It's a inconvenient thing that does not happen often, but it's bound to happen from time to time with these types of books. Game on!

[@machfront]

I know this is an older vid, but I just wanted to recommend to you the rpg Spellzard!. It’s a clone of the FF Introductory RPG. So it sits closer to it with a bit more but not nearly as much as AFF added. It’s small, cool, flavorful and super fun and easy. I’d bet you’d enjoy it. Cheers, brother! 🙂 ⚔️

[@tacoscabeza4761]

Thanks for posting this. I grew up reading the French publication of these books and did not know they were called Fighting Fantasy! Saw the price tag on your book which is 2.99 USD! That's amazing. Can't seem to find it at the same price online. Would love to get my hands on these books again.

[@questwise4077]

It was $2.99 since it was relegated to an overstock store called Merchandise Outlet here in the states. Its the only copy that they had, and yes online they are much more. I too would love to grab a few more of the other titles as well.

[@SebastienlovesCookieswirlc]

I also had the miniature of the Warlock! I think it was a limited edition Citadel Miniature. Must still be somewhere, not too badly painted, in a box.

[@geoffbloom7962]

this looks great! Are there any similar books that are more modern in theme? Perhaps sci-fi future or horror, and a mechanic that includes a d20? ive always wanted to try D&D but cant find a group locally, and scare to be a noob. Maybe these are a good starting point?

[@questwise4077]

Not sure that there are any Sci Fi themed Fighting Fantasy books, but let me do some research for you, so that you can ease into roleplaying before joining a group if that makes you feel more comfortable.

[@geoffbloom7962]

@@questwise4077 That would be great, thank you!

[@superbeast8938]

Great video , I couldn't beat the book

[@RobertWF42]

I was a big fan of the Fighting Fantasy game books as a kid! Made it through the dungeon and beat the warlock after several attempts (and mapping the labyrinth at the end). I owned a copy of the original Warlock of Firetop Mountain with the Russ Nicholson interior art and Richard Corben cover art (fontsinuse.com/uses/22960/fighting-fantasy-gamebook-series-laurel-leaf-). Corben's art was included in Heavy Metal magazine in the 70s and 80s (he's famous for the Den character). I also bought several books in Steve Jackson's Sorcery series, which introduced rules for using magic and a separate spellbook. I think you had to memorize the spell names prior to starting the adventure. You were then prompted with several spell choices during encounters and had to remember which spell was most effective in that situation. At around the same time in the early 80s I also read the Lone Wolf game books by Joe Dever. Different rules but similar theme. Lots of fun!

[@RobertWF42]

Actually it'd be interesting to see if the magic system in the Fighting Fantasy Sorcery gamebooks could be adapted to D&D. Say magic-users can use any spell at their level or lower as long as they remember the correct spell word or phrase that casts the spell (no cheating and looking at notes). Longer phrases for higher level spells. Get even one syllable wrong and you roll on the spell mishaps table. :-) I think this kind of system simulates the popular conception of wizards having to spend long hours studying and memorizing magic.

[@ushanigam9072]

I do have these books

[@RoDaGrier]

Probably less useful but still fun, Fighting Fantasy has an Android app. I rather like it.

[@shockerck4465]

There is a new RPG called WARLOCK ( by Fire Ruby on Drive thru) that was inspired by these books. Its very cool.

[@questwise4077]

Funny you should share that, I will be reviewing Warlock soon!

[@shockerck4465]

@@questwise4077 i like it. It may be too simple for some. I would add some house rules though and switch it up a bit . It could make an easy version of Warhammer Rpg. They already have 2 source books. I love your channel. Thanks!!

[@myautobiographyafanfic1413]

Troika too.

[@robertlykins728]

These look way better

[@andrewtomlinson5237]

FF were great, and really popularised the "Choose Your Own Adventure" solo game. But for me it kind of fell between 2 stools. They weren't as narratively rewarding as the Lone Wolf books that came later, and lacked the depth of game play of the Flying Buffalo "Tunnels and Trolls" solo adventures, which preceded FF by six or seven years. As for the Lone Wolf series, I would have rather just read them than played them, as the stories were pretty damned good, considering how many crappy Fantasy "trilogies" were being printed at the time. T&T came out in the mid 70s and in 1976 the first "Solo Adventure" came out; "Buffalo Castle" and if I remember rightly it was designed for "warrior" class at low level. You got to use the full T&T rules. You weren't limited to certain equipment, and you just played as a normal T&T character. The early books were aimed at Martial characters, later adventures allowed for Wizards characters, which meant they had to take into account the spells a player character might have, and some of these books were extremely well crafted. "Deathtrap Equalizer Dungeon" which invited players to take up the challenge of a deadly dungeon, run by a mad (deadly) NPC, filled with deadly monsters and deadly traps, in order to achieve the great goal of... doing some adventuring, came out about 6 years before Fighting Fantasy's "Deathtrap Dungeon" which essentially offered the same scenario, with some cosmetic tweaks. What Flying Buffalo offered in their version, however, was the notion that the player might want to leave the dungeon, go heal up and restock supplies, and try again and that was factored into the adventure. But what the T&T books really did well, was serve as a gateway for new players to try their hand at being a DM. The books encouraged players to use them as multiplayer adventures, where the DM simply read the descriptions and options to their players. As long as the players understood the circumstances and you didn't have some clown demanding to try things that weren't offered as options, these books were an incredible way for a player to learn some of the "Soft Skills" of being a DM. The T&T rule set was a very stripped down game, and one of the easiest any RPG novice could try their hand at.

[@gordonshumway8030]

Thank you at 20:50 is the point of revisiting these books other than nostalgia..

[@robertlykins728]

I still have some of the lone wolf books

[@age-of-adventure]

I 100% agree with the desire for minimalist gaming as you get older. You can also grab any gamebook and flick to a random picture and just read the blurb and play out that encounter for a random RPG experience (either solo or with friends)

[@Joshuadmathews]

Have you heard of Four Against Darkness? One of the Level 2 Dungeon books (Warlike Woes) used the same hand dungeon. I'm guessing either they got permission from the artist or he also draws dungeons for that series-- because other similar drawn dungeons have appeared in other books-- such as Gifts of the Greedy Guildmasters. If you haven't heard of their games, they are great resources for Solo Rpger.

[@questwise4077]

Four Against Darkness is one of my favorites. Below is a link to my review from about a year ago. I may need to revisit it in video form again soon! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXWtoKOAqrd7Z6M

[@Joshuadmathews]

​@@questwise4077 No I didn't see this! They've had a lot of cool selections come out since Covid started. They've branched out into spin off titles, such as 50's sci-fi adventures, 1920s Cthulhu horror, and solo hero 4ad (Alone Against Fear). And then the Mountains tile book came out (coupled with the Forest tile book, one can now create overland adventures). The last time I really played (early covid) I did this rogue-lite expanding dungeon where every boss defeated opened up a stairwell to the level dungeon bellow it (my party made it all the way to the 4th dungeon using the Core for Lv 1, Warlike Woes second monster tables for Lv2, Fiendish Foes for Lv 3, and Caverns of Chaos for level 4). That was pretty fun. This summer I got more into their Song of Blades miniatures line and have recently begun tinkering with their Mutants and Deathray Guns miniatures rules and the old Marvel Superhero TSR rpg form the 80s to see if you can use the Advanced SOBAH base mechanics to create kind of like an AI system for combat in solo rpging (primarily their nifty stealing initiative mechanic) my first attempt was trying to do with a Castle and Crusades adventure but kind of hit a roadblock when I tried it then. So any advice on how to mesh simplified miniatures battles to enhance solo rpging would be sweet and I'm a big 4AD or Ganesha Games fan so any of their content is fun to watch.

[@Joshuadmathews]

@@questwise4077 FYI- Using Fighting Fantasy books for solo rpging is also a cool topic. I've also tried this in the past. Two parts that kind of had me stumped then was A, how to replicate Race/Class with the SKill/Luck mechanic? Citadel of Chaos has a magic user for the hero- spells- so that one seems pretty self explanatory, other than that it was hard to figure out a subsystem to reflect class and race (would incorporating a proficiency/skill subsystem be the answer?) . B, the books are meant for solo adventures, how to take, for example Firetop Mountain, and turn it into an adventure of 2-4 heroes?

[@questwise4077]

@@Joshuadmathews race and class would be a bit hard to replicate, unless you just went with the idea that Elves are just esthetically different than Humans and don't gain any real modifiers. As for using Firetop Mountain in another game I guess you could play through it once and try to map out the dungeon then port it over.

[@questwise4077]

@@Joshuadmathews I love me some Song of Blades and Heroes! A great game for sure. As for making it more rpg, its already pretty gamey. You could play combat as usual per the rules and roleplay the downtime yourself using 4AD. If you haven't already, check out Frostgrave as well. Much like SoB&H, but with a touch more customization and roleplaying.

[@kyrnsword72]

I love yer intro music and a game system I hope you may check out some day called D100 Dungeon by Martin Knight.

[@questwise4077]

Thank you! And I plan on doing a full review of d100 Dungeon soon!

[@whiterino5738]

Has anyone ever mapped out the dungeons in these stories? I wonder if you can.

[@bottg]

You can, but they don't always make perfect sense

[@whiterino5738]

Thanks

[@a13xw71]

I still don't get it. Why don't you got more subs. Your way too underrated. Keep it up! 🎉👍

[@questwise4077]

Thanks for your kind words, Alex. You may have noticed that the channel has slowed down quite a bit as of late, and that is due to a new career and a shift to more writing and designing rpgs. While the channel is not dead, it has slowed up, which could be a reason that subscription rates have slowed. Thank you for watching. Game on!

[@OrphanCrippler69bb]

I had this book in prison lol was the only way to play an RPG in there

[@mickyjgreen]

I believe you reduce your luck every time you test it, not just in battles, but if you want to make a game a bit easier, your method is not a bad idea.

[@questwise4077]

I believe you are right. It was one of the mistakes I noticed after filming.

[@blamp666]

They've assassinated the art in these new "teletubbies" version, the game still great but, it makes me sad...

[@svartedauden3566]

Youre supposed to deduct a point to your luck when you test it iirc.

[@myautobiographyafanfic1413]

Cool vid, but you cheated. Your luck is 8. Your rules kind of reminds me of troika.

[@svartedauden3566]

Exactly. Supposed to deduct a point when tested.